Loose Canon: The Wicked Witch of the West

From your earliest childhood nightmare to a tragically misunderstood intellectual, let's take a look at how the Wicked Witch of the West has changed over the years.
Twitter: @thelindsayellis
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[@katherinepagan4860]

Not gonna lie, when she brought up that Disney can't get its hands on the 1939 copyright after being responsible for destroying public domain....the biggest, evilest smile split across my face

[@antifagoat6591]

Not an evil smile. Righteous.

[@brandonporter8509]

It’s also why Disney couldn’t just take Spider-Man from Sony. If Disney left Copyright law alone then Spider-Man would have entered The public domain around the same Time as the first avengers movie. Also this would mean we could have both a Sony Spider-Man and a Disney marvel Spider-Man.

[@Maximara]

​@@brandonporter8509 Untrue. Spiderman came out in 1962. Even under the Copyright Act of 1909 the duration could be as long as 56 years so Spiderman wouldn't have entered into the Public Domain until Jan 1, 2019. The first Avengers movie was in 2012. The Copyright Act of 1976 was to bring the US on par with other countries that had the duration life of author+x years rather than date of publication and it kicked corporate copyright up to 75 years.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

Disney is evil. They've destroyed many creative efforts with legal threats, including Howard The Duck.

[@Maximara]

​@@maskedmarvyl4774 Why would Didney need to threaten anyone regarding Howard The Duck? The property has been a joke in the _general_ public's mind since 1986.

[@aenjgeal]

Margaret Hamilton was also probably the only person who was actually nice to Judy Garland on set

[@johnnysizemore5797]

@aenjgeal-- she's personally one of my favorite Wicked Witch's. It's hinted(but never said) in the movie that the Spinnster version of her was the Nicer side that, somehow, got banished from Oz....

[@jorschachblatant1934]

Why is that the case?

[@hanil9321]

@@jorschachblatant1934 Judy Garland was thoroughly abused during the whole filming by literally everyone including the cast and staff except for Margaret Hamilton. They told her to smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday so her voice would be deeper and her costars constantly verbally abused her because they're jealous of her status as the main character. Just google it. The behind the scene was awful that I still feel uncomfortable rewatching this movie knowing what they did to her.

[@jorschachblatant1934]

@@hanil9321 Oh my... This is the first time of me knowing this. That is indeed disgusting...

[@KeepCalmContemplateYourChoices]

Ironic. The one who's supposed to be mean to the lead actress in hte movie was the only nice one to her while filming.

[@bboops23]

My grandparents knew Margaret Hamilton. She was their neighbor. And she gave them a wedding gift. I was told she was incredibly kind.

[@markkittel44]

Turned out that of all the other actors with her on the Wizard of Oz set, Judy Garland said that Margaret Hamilton was the only one who actually treated her nicely.

[@jbvader721]

Funny how it almost always the polite/nice/sensitive actors who play the best villains.

[@EK-dt4cp]

watch her on mr. rogers' neighborhood! so sweet!

[@jbvader721]

@@EK-dt4cp It's referenced at the end of the video.

[@EK-dt4cp]

@@jbvader721 i realized after I commented *sigh* Lindsay never misses a thing

[@furryash8388]

Disney CEO: "Why can't we own the rights to this movie?" Disney intern: "Because it's copyrighted." Disney CEO: "So?" Disney intern: "And we kinda are responsible for extending copyright law." Disney: "Oh."

[@furryash8388]

@@benhaney5843 They do have a media monopoly now after buying Fox and they do have an iron grip on copyright, often enforcing it to an extreme.

[@brandonporter8509]

@@furryash8388 funny that the iron grip on copyright is cause they keep Lobbying Congress to rewrite copyright law so it effectively becomes as long as the company that makes Or owns it exists copyright is infinite and nothing new will ever enter public domain meaning effectively there will Never be any new musical standards or public stories or public iconic characters. Superman will never be owned By the people Nicky mouse will never pass to the people bugs bunny will never pass to the people . As opposed to Dracula who has passed to the people. The main problem With never letting a fictional being become the people’s is like it or not Dracula is now a concept more Than a single character and because no one company owns this character there are countless different versions of him. I would Even say that if universal Had some Copyright On Dracula as a whole then the only source of new versions would require them To sign off on it sure some versions parody him some make him into a joke some Versions are interesting unique takes that rejuvenate interest in the character enough that universal thought trying to reboot the universal Monster movies as a cinematic universe would Have been a good Idea which had that worked universal would have the fact That Dracula was Public domain to Thank for the renewed Interest justifying them trying a reboot If Disney let Disney things enter the public domain imagine how someone else’s take on Mickey could potentially revitalize massive interest in their character enough make Disney massive money in their own relaunch of things. To me letting things enter the public domain don’t take it from its original holder it just makes the original holder the ones making the authentic version. And when an alternate version repopularizes the character often people take interest in the authentic original again too

[@artistwithouttalent]

Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions

[@FatalKitsune]

"You guys are out of your tiny miiiiiiiiiinnndssss..." Nailed it. Use that take. Perfect.

[@Apemopo]

part tiiime!

[@isabelr3467]

That line deserves to become a meme.

[@Robocopnik]

How bad do those other takes have to be? Rather, how GOOD?

[@UDontTakeMeSeriously]

Hey, you've gotta admit it's memorable.

[@theforgetfulalchemist]

miiiiiindsssss XD

[@beemel5734]

"...she's always someone's sister or daughter or something." The most apt discription of OUAT I've ever heard.

[@broadwaymelody33]

"Elphaba. Get it, like L Frank Baum" Oh my god, my world has been tilted on its axis

[@TwoWholeWorms]

Jaw. Dropped. :o

[@arajczewski9253]

You didn't know that?!

[@juliadietrich3584]

@@arajczewski9253 no...

[@Uriel238]

Yeah. That was mindsmack for me too.

[@infjelphabasupporter8416]

I knew it from the beginning so this must be an emotional journey for you...

[@krtong]

"She's a woman scorned, by james franco of all people." This made me laugh a lot harder than It probably should've.

[@rusted_ursa]

That's probably the line that most brings me back for rewatches.

[@affsteak3530]

I love how Lindsey treats Miss Piggy like a real actress.

[@kindrafaskell5177]

But she is...

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

"Treats?'

[@billyalarie929]

wym she's a real actress

[@itsmeemrys9221]

How dare you talk about miss piggy this way.

[@forrestdupre87]

At least the Muppet version is closer to the book

[@nikap18]

Slavic fun facts: the polish word for a witch is "wiedźma" which has its roots in the word "wiedza", meaning knowledge. In pre-christian days, witches were respected in polish culture as healers and advisors - until the association with the devil that Lindsay mentioned. They were often accused not only of worshiping the devil but also engaging in sexual acts with him and a theory about the brooms is that they were supposed to represent the devil's phallus. So there ya go. Also, in south slavic languages Zelena literally means "green". The witch in Once Upon a Time is called Greenie.

[@DDdreamer90]

The viking culture here in Sweden has something similar, with female diviners known as Völvor who were thought to have precognitive powers and were consulted by chieftains and other important people. Since they basically served as advisors they wielded a lot of social power and it was actually illegal for a man to practice their magic, on the pain of death. Buuut like in Poland once christianity hit Sweden they were labeled witches and devil's kin, and the role of völva eventually died out.

[@Kalahridudex]

Witch is viedma in Russian, now I know where that comes from. Probably no coincidence that wizard sounds like it comes from wisdom either.

[@hosni2]

In Dutch witch means heks, and if you say heks a bunch of times, it sounds like sex.

[@mariamatedei]

Lol, greenie, I really want to write something about a character just called Greenie now

[@Spicy_Spores]

👍👍 good comment :D

[@roselover411]

"I like the book more in theory, I prefer the musical more in practice." That is a perfect way to describe my feelings on Wicked as well.

[@mikkile0n]

Lol Disney and copyright extension. MGM: "Yo, you want this witch? Gimme dat mouse?" Disney: "B-but I like my mouse." MGM: "I like my witch."

[@mollio7070]

Does anyone else find it strange that witches are traditionally seen as evil but wizards are seen as pretty good people

[@loganrenfrow2544]

Mollsauce I kinda disagree. Wizards aren't inherently good or bad in most media, they can go either way. You see evil wizards as the villain about as often as good wizards help the hero.

[@loganrenfrow2544]

Mollsauce That being said, you rarely ever see good witches at all, so you still have a point.

[@Tenebyss]

Mollsauce I usually think of Warlocks as the male equivalent

[@KOTEBANAROT]

In my language there's two different words describing "woman having magical power", with "ved'ma" meaning "evil witch" and "volshebnitsa" meaning "good/neutral witch". Maybe "fairy" for some time meant the same as "good witch" but later got lost in time? I mean, there were fairy god mothers...

[@MattMcIrvin]

Though Oz itself is the single most prominent exception, with good witches. Come to think of it, the modern subversions often cast Glinda as a villain. Glinda does seem like a heartless chessmaster if you think too hard about the plot of the '39 movie, since she withholds crucial information from Dorothy at the beginning that could have gotten her home at any time. But that's just because the movie combined the Good Witch of the North and Glinda into a single character; in the book, she's the Good Witch of the South and Dorothy doesn't meet her until late in the story ("The Wiz" stuck with that).

[@silverfangmoonhunter]

Mila Kunis on set for OZ:TGAP: "Um.... My script just says scream every word.... Is this... Do I have the right script?"

[@CJCroen1393]

Listening to the lines shown in this video led me to keep saying "shut up, Meg."

[@MrStGeorgeIllawarra]

I always though she and Rachel should have swapped roles.

[@darthsidious47]

To be honest she was a decent young wicked witch of the west. Definitely not perfect by any means but she was ok.

[@s_mazey]

@@MrStGeorgeIllawarra I never realized what a great actress Rachel Weisz was until I watch “The Favourite.”

[@marbledipity]

"if you've never seen this show, it's like disney's big domestic au fanfic" I have never heard a better description for ouat in my whole life

[@DarkSoulsSauron]

Zoey Deschanel being raised by robots is probably the best real life explanation for ZD's terrifying thousand yard stare

[@davidlewis5312]

Glutin allergy, lactose intolerant, and vegan. Everything that exists beyond plants is trying to kill her

[@nicholastosoni707]

"a woman scorned by James Franco" "YOU ARE _TEARING ME APART,_ ELPHABA!"

[@elise6080]

I don't get why the wicked witch of the west has always been a villain. Her sister died, and her sisters shoes were given away to some little farm girl(in Wicked it explains that witch of east actually left them To the witch of the west in her will). And not only were they given away but it was by her worst enemy who also called her ugly. (Remember when she says all bad witches are ugly). And ofcourse the wizard sent Doroty after her, so that Doroty could kill her, and steal her broom. If some magic dude sent a little girl after me to kill me and then steal my possesions I would be pissed off also. Not to mention said little girl is wearing my dead sisters stolen magical shoes, that are legally mine!

[@MattMcIrvin]

Well, the book and the movie do both present the Wicked Witches as cruel, slave-driving rulers over the lands they control, whose subjects instantly celebrate when they're dead. That's definitely a point in favor of a "villain" interpretation, but it's all background. I think the Wizard does protest too much when he insists that he's a very good man, just a very, very bad wizard. He doesn't seem like a very good man to me.

[@elise6080]

well about the slave thing, in Wicked, it tells us that the guards or 'slaves' were after her castle, so she made them her slaves to protect herself. And while it doesn't justify it onehundred percent, it does still make her less wicked

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

Jenny Cork Because she wanted to kill a child and a dog.

[@elise6080]

the dog thing i prob cant forgive, but if some prissy little girl killed your sister and then stole her shoes which were left to you in said sisters will wouldn't you also be pretty pissed off?

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

Dorothy didn't do any of that. A tornado tripped her house on the witch of the east, then Galinda decided to put the witch ot the east's shoes on Dorthy. It's nature and Galinda that WWW should have problems with.

[@connorscanlan1736]

That broom-between-the-legs thing is pretty phallic, too, isn't it? I'm not exactly sure what that tells us, but it definitely speaks to men's anxieties about women deviating from their supposed roles. P.S. - Mila Kunis's Wicked Witch becomes much more tolerable when you imagine her as Meg Griffin having finally snapped: she wasn't talking about Franco; she was talking about her father, Peter.

[@HillaryMarek]

Connor Scanlan I have made that observation a time or two as well. Glad I’m not the only one

[@hosni2]

@Isidora Camus That's the biggest stretch I've ever seen. They make herbs... So they put them in their vagina... With a broom

[@andersbeck4440]

Isidora Camus is right; they would apply a sort of tincture made from belladona to the top of the broom handle.

[@andersbeck4440]

@Isidora Camus yer right.

[@andersbeck4440]

@@hosni2 Isidora is right. It was a common way to consume belladona for so-called witches.

[@trampoline11x]

Margaret Hamilton is the best witch. The coolest design, the coolest characterization (compared to most. . .). As far as being an evil witch, she was the best pick. It makes me sad how bad Margarets experiences were during and afterwards. If ever there was a villain that deserved sympathy it was her.

[@scarletharlot8511]

Seeing this be rereleased makes me really badly want an Alice in Wonderland Loose Cannon

[@archive9796]

especially as most adaptions right out of bat change there version to fit the Disney animated film rather that take inspiration from the book

[@scarletharlot8511]

Not just that, but personally I'd love to hear what she thought of the weird SciFi version with Kathy Bates.

[@rosalinecapulet]

But which character should she focus on? I personally nominate the Mad Hatter, since he's the one who tends to be changed the most in adaptations (aside from the Red Queen, who keeps being conflated with the Queen of Hearts). I'd especially like to see Lindsay touch on the weird recurring thing where they make him Alice's love interest.

[@scarletharlot8511]

Anna Capulet Again, solidifying my interest in the SciFi version being gone over. :D

[@inuyasha88]

Scarlet Harlot ai

[@BadGuyRants]

Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch is one of the greatest villains/performances of all time!

[@danstiver9135]

And Mila Kunis's Wicked Witch is one of the worst.

[@rollomaughfling380]

You forgot to say you were gonna let Taylor Swift finish.

[@halfdemonprince]

Because she had fun with it

[@ingriddubbel8468]

She terrified me when I was very small.

[@EuroMIX2]

As a kid it was basically between her and Maleficent as to which witch I loved more.

[@death0personified]

"Only bad witches are ugly", That's shade

[@royalfool3600]

I'd go on a date with all the magic users in that movie so I'm not sure who she's referring to?

[@valeriedecadbury2978]

The shadiest part is when soon after she asks Dorothy if she’s a good witch or a bad witch 😂😂

[@oli8033]

Well, Fiyero clearly has a type

[@liberpolo5540]

@@valeriedecadbury2978 OMG, I NEVER NOTICED THAT...!!!

[@cheneethompson5756]

When I was little, I was thinking, "bitch, what?!" Lol!

[@leahokoben7085]

Margaret Hamilton went to my high school and they still talk about her role in the Wizard of Oz.

[@TheAstip]

I love trying to explain Once Upon a Time to people... i love it but maybe just because it's just so ridiculous

[@TheRachaelLefler]

It sounds like something an elementary school kid could write. "Well see Rumpelstiltskin is the beast from Beauty and the Beast and uh the wicked witch and the evil queen from Snow White are sisters and uh..."

[@junehatter8479]

I only watch OUAT because it's so campy and ridiculous, not because I think it's a good show. It's hilarious.

[@jiggerblayne]

thats really the best reason to watch that show, It is a straight up guilty pleasure for me. :P

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

Astip I just explain the first episode usually.

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

June Hatter I honestly thought it was good for a while, but it really has become ridiculous and I can't watch without groaning and laughing.

[@junehatter8479]

YOU FORCED ME TO REMEMBER MUPPET WIZARD OF OZ I was laughing when you were talking about Once Upon a Time. It really is just such a convoluted self-promotion of a show. It's the biggest guilty pleasure show of mine. It's ridiculous and cheesy af, but addicting. And yeah, why is Rumpelstiltskin the equivalent of, like, five different characters?

[@disneylandw]

Because the writers really LOVE this character even though he is basically a tired running gag for 6 seasons now. And the fact that they themselves have NO idea what the heck "magic has a price" actually means, they love him as a VILLAIN!!!! but he was a terrible fit for Belle(whose romance with him is completely MEANINGLESS!!!)

[@garyjones2561]

disneylandw How dare you?! 😠

[@TexTheBest]

wicked focused more on the romance. ah yes, elphaba/glinda is one of my favorite ships.

[@mme.veronica735]

They kiss in the 1995 book Wicked and they were ROOM MATES, in COLLEGE!!!!

[@waterlemonandfriends]

@@mme.veronica735 Oh my god, they were roommates

[@ycp4194]

@@waterlemonandfriends We all know what that means

[@madelinewright5218]

Okay, but wicked the musical is phenomenal. It is visually stunning and the songs are amazing. Definetly a classic and staple of broadway.

[@Karrenola]

I liked the way Lindsay handled this, hands down the 1939 version beats all. I was dissatisfied though with her treatment of The Wiz. Yes it was one of many African American knock offs of white material, but it stood out as great on its own due to the focus on Caribbean art, culture and the slave history that merged with the art. The Wicked Witch's costume in particular was rich in Cuban, Jamaican and other Caribbean art made beautiful with the witch's wonderfully expressive face. Elements of voodoo are also incorporated. The music and dance are outstanding in so many ways. Black children like myself back then all felt this was not just any remake, it had things that we could feel deep down were of the black experience in America which included all the places our ancestors came from AND was based on a story of different kinds of culture from our white ancestors. The film was released during a time of great turmoil and sadness due to the closing of the Civil Rights window of opportunity from all the assassinations, Watergate and the Vietnam War. Americans of all colors desperate for happiness turned to Norman Lear's All in the Family and The Jeffersons, to black and multicultural disco music, to the Roots TV miniseries and to the increasing popularity of Michael Jackson and his brothers. The Wiz rode on all this to deserved success and well deserves its place amongst the most influential and impressionable films ever made, in spite of the borrowed storyline and simplistic plot.

[@hyperchica]

I was, too. I haven't seen the film so I can't attest to how "good" it is, but it seems like Lindsay just glossed over it like "yeah, okay.... next". I was reminded of when Nostalgia Critic and Todd in the Shadows did Wiz, completely panned it and also missed absolutely all of the important symbolism it contains which is rooted in black culture. Can we get a black person to do a proper take on it, please, instead of all these white* people weighing in without being aware of (or bothering to research) the cultural context? I would have liked to at least see Lindsay acknowledge her blinders on that front. *Admittedly I'm not sure of Todd's race, and he might not be white, but he still didn't do it justice.

[@thegreenmage6956]

You are both racist.

[@phastinemoon]

I think her complaint was that it was so sloppily put together (doesn't help that it was directed and produced by all-white folk so... y'know) and she even agrees that the Witch is the best part of the film. And, even with all that said, I've still seen people who saw both the stage musical and the movie... and the movie messed up a lot of stuff, either with poor translation, or just because the production team was being super lazy and sloppy. Maybe we should get the director of Black Panther to do a remake of The Wiz for film -- y'know, actually let a person of color hold the reigns, and someone who's competent with a camera and knows how to make visually evocative art...

[@tatehildyard5332]

phastinemoon The NBC version was actually pretty good.

[@phastinemoon]

I... have not seen that one, and either way, it wasn't the version that Lindsay covered in this video, so I guess that's why she didn't get into it, and just covered the film version.

[@maxaronson1017]

“You don’t wanna go there, MacBeth” is the best summary of the moral of MacBeth I’ve ever seen.

[@paulinabringas98]

Also as much as I hate the Muppets version, I find that Quentin Tarentino bit hilarious Im awful bye

[@DT-od3hd]

At least half the fun their is that its fucking *Quentin Tarentino.* Like, unless his appearance was due to some kind of contract he'd signed then that means he either got randomly asked if he wanted to do it (and said yes) or he petitioned for the part.

[@15marsj]

The Muppet version is one of my favorite iterations of the Muppets. It’s hilarious and I’ll defend it to the end.

[@camzoman]

Yeah, I haven't seen the full thing but really enjoyed that gag when she showed it.

[@damiengonzalez7263]

Seriously. I've probably watched this movie 2 dozen times (kids) and thought it had some hilarious parts. The shrimp was fucking hilarious, okay. And the drug den scene was pretty funny as well. Lots of nods to adults that are forced to watch it "cause kids".

[@zenithquasar9623]

I think Miss Piggy melting is hilarious too! Yikes!

[@upperleftcoastchelseafan7718]

Useless fact, L Frank Baum got the name of OZ from looking at the front of a file cabinet. He was having trouble coming up with the name when he glanced at his file cabinet and it hit him, A-D, E-H, I-N, 'O-Z'.

[@timothymclean]

It's interesting that we see a couple of "proto-Frozen" bits with the Wicked Witch. It probably has to do with how they're both weird, magical women who don't get along or interact with most of society for various reasons.

[@MattMcIrvin]

When I first heard "Let It Go" I remember thinking "They wrote this knowing Idina Menzel from Wicked would be singing it, right?"

[@gublinchscrivener7891]

Who else *could* sing it? ;D

[@TheRachaelLefler]

The real problem is, it's much better in Wicked. In "Let It Go" she sings her happy independence song while freezing her entire kingdom to death. There's a lot of dissonance in every song in Frozen between the song and what's actually happening in the movie. Let's sing a quirky love song during my sister's first time interacting socially with the outside world after years of isolation! Let's have the snowman sing about how he's going to die when it warms up and doesn't know it, how cute! Let's sing another quirky love song while the trolls are really misunderstanding the situation and being unhelpful and oh yeah, Anna is dying. And the most famous song of all is one that happens while presumably millions of people are dying or suddenly dealing with intense blizzards ruining their lives off screen. Elphaba does some bad things with her magic, but nothing to warrant the label of Wicked Witch, yet all Elsa has to do is save Anna and she gets instantly forgiven by the whole general public of the kingdom she buried under snow and ice? How many children died while she was just singing about how happy she was to be free? This movie is terrible.

[@gublinchscrivener7891]

I mean, saying it's "better" because it's not dissonant is kind of weird. "Let It Go" is a deliberately dissonant song. She's full of relief, yes, but she's also *abandoning her home, family and duty*. It's catharsis, which as Rantasmo aptly points out, is not enough on its own. She's Letting Go. They're similar songs, but it's wrong to compare them so closely. Defying Gravity is about defiance (though there are some open-ended questions on whether, perhaps, Glenda was right to try to stick around and fix things within the system). Let It Go is about *release*. Also, everything Elphaba does is deliberate. The people who get hurt on her watch died because of choices she made. Everything Elsa does is pretty much outside her control, which is the whole point of the movie. *"Couldn't keep it in / Heaven knows I've tried."* I mean, seriously. Children dying? You *do* remember you're watching a Disney movie, right? The movie never depicts what Elsa does as a good choice-it's simply relieving for her, personally. Critiquing a song because the character isn't doing the right thing in it is just silly.

[@TheRachaelLefler]

The thing is most people singing the song in the numerous covers don't get the dissonant destruction behind the scenes and just see it as an upbeat girl power anthem. The movie and the song aren't what people think they are.

[@michelleli3373]

I actually really like Wicked the musical. But woah. That Elphaba = LFB thing I never got. I mean, until now.

[@madamb2246]

I don't understand ?!

[@meli2066]

MadamB MadamB Just sound out LFB, and all shall be answered. lol

[@daiselol]

So glad that Lindsay was brutal on Oz, Mila Kunis as the wicked witch is probably the worst performance I've ever seen

[@Waffle519]

I've watched way too much That 70s Show to take Mila Kunis seriously when she yells, and guess what she does a lot of in Oz

[@erinmcgee1160]

Lol Jackie Burkhart is a true witch but Mila Kunis could not pull off this part.

[@TallManVanitas]

Of course it was, it's Mila Kunis.

[@HurricaneDDragon]

daiselol Have you seen The Room?

[@ztslovebird]

daiselol Why was Sam Raimi chosen for this movie, anyway? Oz is massively matriarchal magical realm, and Raimi’s female characters are either damsels or . . . . . no, they’re just bland damsels.

[@reneelawton1032]

Lindsay looks so professorial in this. Such a wonderful and smart person.

[@mrhal812]

Margaret Hamilton as both the witch and Ms. Gulch had only 12 minutes of screen time.

[@thirteenfury]

Hal Cromwell I remember reading that Margaret Hamilton was rightfully upset that even though the actress who played Glinda had even less screentime than her, that actress got better pay and a much bigger, more luxurious dressing room. Not that Hamilton was envious, just that she didn't think it was appropriate to treat Glinda's actress as superior to all the other actors in the film.

[@geraldgrenier8132]

So? A major villain can have even less screen time, the point is when show, and when they're talked about. Liseny was talking about the difference between establish the character is a driving force and not mentioning them until just before their scene

[@mrhal812]

Oh yeah, the point to that was to say there are no small parts when you have great actors. In those 12 minutes, she stole the movie.

[@TheTygre]

Which is also exactly how much screen time Elsa had in Frozen. This is getting spooky now.

[@thirteenfury]

Chatnoir 77888 Ah! That's what her name was. I remembered her first name Billie but not her last name. I was just being lazy and didn't feel like googling it or reading my Wizard of Oz behind-the-scenes book.

[@AdrianWoodUK]

21:54 - "Uhh, hey, her makeup's coming off around her mouth, should we do something about that? Ahh, who cares, I'm sure no-one'll notice."

[@jareththegoblinking3191]

I personally LOVED The Wiz, sure its probably nothing like the play and maybe some of its stupid but the songs were great, the witch's song, Ease On Down The Road is always gonna be stuck in my head

[@stahppls2293]

Of course you do, Jareth. You like weird worlds and weird dance music 😅

[@TheoCynical]

Loved that movie too! Sure it was long but to me, it was an adventure and it just made sense that adventures can be long. It makes it all the churning to leave the world because it's like leaving a world you've been living in. Kinda sad but yeah.

[@matthewbennett9928]

The movie is entertaining but the play is far better and the NBC version captures it better than the movie.

[@dreadfullsorryclementine]

"oh im not melting im getting skinny" is the best line i have ever heard

[@brettmastema7056]

I saw Ashanti play Dorothy in the Wiz in the Encores summer series. When I saw the Muppett Version, I actually thought it was such an improvement over what she did on stage. She was really over the top and it felt like she was channeling a grade school kid getting her first lead. I don't know that I will ever lose the memory of her during the tornado. She was on a door on all fours and a frozen face of shock. As people danced around her and lifted that door up. I kinda thought maybe she was on fear of falling off. Then I realized, she doesn't have much range.

[@anthonyL1995]

So, the thing with The Wiz is that Dorothy is supposed to be thirteen. Stephanie Mills the original actress was in the age range of thirteen at the time of the Broadway production. Diana Ross really wanted to play the role. Which is understandable while it's not a great show the music is great in The Wiz. So, Ashanti playing the character was not only supposed to be a way for her to prove herself after the Muppet fiasco but also they tried justifying it because of Ross and because it was a quasi-concert. They made no attempt at aging the character so that Dorothy wasn't being played by a woman in her 30's which at least the movie adjusted the plot so Diana wasn't playing a little girl.

[@chloe1-2-3-4-5]

The broom-riding was also a visual representation about the power and therefore masculinity witches were perceived to have. They are literally swinging a pole between their legs.

[@LucianCorrvinus]

look st the images of the time, at the start, it was bristles forward.... any symbolism is nuanced and unconscious....

[@cherrybakewell7690]

So Freudian!

[@bloodyneptune]

No no, in Once Upon A Time shes not the Evil Queens half sister because of the 'shes always related to someone' trope. I can see why you'd think so, but in the case of Once Upon A Time, _everyone_ is related to eachother. _Everyone_

[@no_hay_valentim]

"Can we just agree that this is one of the best movie's ever mad?" Got my like right there.

[@hopeantonio8243]

the broom was a Pagan tradition. you would have to make the broom yourself so it would have your energy, and you would keep it by the front door of your house. every night/morning you would use the broom to sweep all the negative energy out the front door and away from your home.

[@TheRachaelLefler]

On the "Today I Learned" channel they also said there might have been a drug concoction that people would rub onto a broom and then onto their private parts but I think that was just a folk rumor, sensationalizing what were probably just old pagan customs.

[@phucanhell]

Hope, Not saying you're wrong, there's just no definitive answer. For example, one theory involves broom handles, hallucinogens and an interesting method of absorption. (And yes... it's what you're thinking)

[@MoonShadowWolfe]

Really? Because I read a much more sexually graphic explanation for the broom thing on Cracked ...

[@thecooestlguyever]

But what does this have to do with witches?

[@henryabbott484]

oHNogOShJOLly a pagan woman is called a witch

[@ligoner412]

Gotta love Fred Rodgers and his show, may he rest in peace.

[@psycane8462]

I love how Lindsay just stopped talking about Zelena when Rumplestiltskin "killed" her even though she actually didn't die and continued in the show through season six which is honestly one of the worst decisions the show ever made

[@isacami25]

seeing someone trying to explain once upon a time always brings me such great glee because it was a big stupid mess and it is just impossible, and i mean IMPOSSIBLE to explain lol

[@VoidBurgerGaming]

Oz's talking animals weren't invented by MacGuire in 1995! In the 1985 movie Return to Oz, Dorothy explicitly mentions "All the animals in Oz can talk" when speaking to the Doctor, I believe.

[@h193013]

Void Burger Of course the original book had talking animals

[@gargamellenoir8460]

@Khashon She also has the best Silent Hill LPs if you're into that

[@moclarkemurray6813]

....... Do people just forget that the Cowardly Lion exists..?

[@kevinbacon5492]

Mo Clarke Murray agreed. I mean in the book he was a giant fucking lion that could talk. Possibly one of the bad ass things ever excluding the fact he’s a pussy and yet people think Return To Oz/Maguire invented talking animals existing in OZ.

[@Pagemaster22193]

I know this is a year old but in the book there were two different types of animals. animals, who couldn’t talk, and Animals, the kind that could. The capitalization is what distinguishes the two. That what She was talking about.

[@yearoftheavenging9018]

Would love to your comments on NBC's canceled "Emerald City" where the wicked witch/Elphaba runs a brothel and is addicted to drugs while Glinda runs a convent 😂

[@waterlemonandfriends]

Excuse me WHAT

[@matthewbennett9928]

@@waterlemonandfriends Emerald City is a dark re-imagining of the books by L. Frank Baum and the wicked witch runs a brothel and Glinda runs a orphanage. But the reason they do these things is because the wizard banned magic and rules Oz with science. The story about war between science and magic. It ran for one 10 episode season and in my opinion is very underrated.

[@ladyredl3210]

@@matthewbennett9928 that sounds fantastic!

[@TheShicksinator]

@@waterlemonandfriends they did grimdark Oz by way of game of thrones and it's actually amazing.

[@vincentcuroso5944]

Yeah I was waiting for that as well. Emerald City was not great, but it was a damned site better than the stuff I saw here. Also, Wicked the novel was fantastic. Went into it expecting not much and came out thoroughly impressed.

[@midn3341]

You finally put into words my feelings toward Wicked the Musical and Wicked the book. I never could figure out why I had such weird mixed feelings toward Wicked the Book and you finally explained it!!! Thank you!!!

[@anon9359]

Oh my god, I remember watching the muppet version as a child, lol, I even remember the "I'm getting skinny!" scene.

[@moonlady3000]

That tiny, basically just a hand in a sock, version of Miss Piggy was nightmare fuel to me as a child. .... still pretty darn unsettling now.

[@bugsheartscribbling6187]

Margaret Hamilton...this woman just combined two of my favorite Broadway plays into one ;)

[@Apollo9898LP]

actually witch iconography mostly dates back to a brief period of time where women would brew ale out of their homes to make extra money (before the practice was deemed illegal for women to do) and while i can't recall the specifics the broom was basically something that was put above the door-frame(?) to signify that the house was one you could buy ale at.

[@cayreet5992]

Not ale, but my corner of Germany has a tradition that people who make and sell their own wine put a broom by the entrance of the building where you can go to get it, so you know where ... it's called 'Besenwirtschaft' (besen = broom, wirtschaft = pub)

[@adamfreddo5703]

Remember the first time I ever heard the word for a male witch "Warlock" was from the Scooby Doo the witch's ghost movie.... and to have Tim Curry say that word, couldn't have heard it anywhere better for the first time to be honest.

[@elliem.4841]

That broom is not a broom. It's a besom, aka ritual tool to cleanse energy. During certain festivals have couples jump over a besom mounted over a fire pit, and that's thought to be the original origin of the "flying on a broom" witch sterotype

[@Dood_Spooce]

Ive heard of jumping over bonfires for luck, not with that ritual tool on top though

[@Ziaberry]

I've heard it's a euphemism for riding Satan's dick While your explanation is way more plausible I just really want to continue believing it's the devil's dick

[@kaygirl2016]

It was also a brewery thing. Women used to be the predominant beer makers, and would hang brooms over their establishments. Their brewing methods were also well kept secrets that they kept either within their own families if they had children, or passed on to young apprentices of their own choosing, mostly young girls. Men back then (and to an extent even now) didn't like it when women were successful and capable of living on their own because if they could provide for themselves, then they were less likely to marry asshole who would use and abuse them because the women were financially well off, so the men of the time started to associate brooms with withcraft, and in that way began demonizing these independent businesswomen in order to take away their credibility, as well as to have an excuse to snoop around and steal their brewing secrets.

[@crunch1757]

Vulpyne Kollision another theory is they used them to put drugs inside their "thingy-thing".

[@crunch1757]

Jacob Hoss foolishness? Nice thing to say about a whole DIVERSE religion

[@RoryKatherin03]

Seeing Zelina, Wicked Witch in OUAT, in the opening makes me feel all warm inside

[@GoldenRose116]

Zelena is amazing yeah

[@RukoHanaji]

To be fair, Walt snapped up the rights to 11-12 of Baum's Oz books in the 1950s, intending to incorporate the stories into the weekly television show, with Annette Funicello as Ozma. This never happened, but there are images out there of a lot of actors dressed as the classic characters. Then of course in the 1980s they tried to have a go with Return To Oz...

[@mariephoenix7984]

So watching this episode for the tenth time and still can't get over some of Lindsay's responses to these interpretations of the Wicked Witch, woof indeed... I'm sure she doesn't read these comments but for any new watchers out there, binge watch her stuff, ALL OF IT. Lindsay is an amazing creator who needs all the love and support she can get.

[@jessicaleung9482]

this video is just lindsay slowly falling apart as she discusses each adaptation

[@wheatboi8255]

Disney has until 2023 to figure out their next sales pitch for extending copyright protection yet again. All while drawing from the well of fair use stories and characters for their movies. Ah, self serving hypocrisy. The new national anthem. I wonder how the people adamantly claiming that's it's totally not Disney doing this will explain it away this time.

[@madisonsloan9570]

The Wiz witch is TERRIFYING. I like the movie though. It's very artistic and weird. OH also whatever that subway underground part where they were being chased around was the most scary thing on the planet (or at least it was for me when I was younger)

[@ralphparker4757]

Madison Sloan I love the movie, but as a kid I was spooked as frick during some, if not most of it lol

[@msmilesftw]

LOOOOVE The Wiz!

[@TheoCynical]

Same those spring things were terrifying!

[@sirgalahad1376]

@@TheoCynical Does anyone else think Lindsay put on alot of wieght?

[@EuroMIX2]

That part was literal nightmare fuel.

[@caliboyschannel3936]

Once Upon a Time has the best adaptation of the Wizard of Oz. There is a saying that says “ Your Green with Envy” so that was pretty clever. Also OUAT is known for not just going by Disney films but also by the original folklore of theses fairytales and putting there own little spin/ twist on these iconic characters. Also the idea of putting all these characters together, seeing how they are connected, and giving explanations on how certain events happened or how certain characters became who they are is just amazing. It’s like Avengers but for fairytales. If they ever have a film adaptation I hope hey do make it a little different but still as good as the show.

[@caliboyschannel3936]

I do think that they could’ve done a better job with it but for the most part it was good. I liked how they made the wicked witch and evil queen half sisters which meant they shared a mother who turns out to be the queen of hearts. AMAZING TWIST!

[@agilroy2226]

I saw Wicked, and in the third act, Elphaba comes back to see her sister, Nessa. Nessa asks why Elphaba even bothered coming back when everyone hates her, and Elphaba says, "Well, there's no place like home."I laughed immediately, but I was the only one in the entire theatre to do so, so I quickly muffled my giggles. Then slowly people got it, and the entire theatre roared with laughter while I stewed in my seat.

[@brunogiambroni1422]

Even watching clips from ‘Oz the great and powerful’ was excruciating so I can’t imagine having to sit through the whole thing

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

"Only bad witches are ugly" ... "It's just timeless"

[@MiCKi914]

I personally really like Maguire's writing style (Son of a Witch is one of my favorite books -- I would recommend it if you liked Wicked), but to each their own!

[@infjelphabasupporter8416]

I loved it. I'm studying moral philosophy and his novels are so enlightening.

[@sailorplanetmars6103]

He's got a love-it or hate-it style, I've found. Even myself, some sections are lovely and emotionally charged but then sometimes I'll read something that seems so vague that it's just meaningless and immaterial. But the uniqueness of his approach makes his works consistently interesting, even if one doesn't find them good.

[@KatherinaBathory]

I love Elphaba... And yes... I think they totally casted Idina Menzel to give Elsa that Elphaba vibe... I mean... Even the names have sort of a thing... XP

[@ravenclawesome9093]

1:36 Actually, there's a pretty interesting reason witches are associated with broomsticks, as well as many other witchy stereotypes. Studies have shown that the idea of witches have been traced back to the profession of beer making, a profession that was almost entirely comprised of women during it's early days. Brewers would wear big hats to make them more noticable in large crowds. They would have cats to keep mice away from the grain storage. And to top it all off, they would put a broomstick over their door once a new batch of beer was ready. However, like Lindsay said, the Catholic Church wasn't having any of that. So the idea of a witch was perpetuated from those traits in order to demonize them (pun intended).

[@SirChubbyBunny]

Another delightful story that took place behind the scenes of the 1939 version is that after Margaret came to the set after taking a medical leave from her burns, the very next scene she was to film was where the Witch flies over the Emerald City - the Surrender Dorothy thing. She absolutely refused to do it, getting a bad vibe about it. So, her stunt double jumped in to do the scene, and the broomstick ducking exploded.

[@VictoriousBard]

I just really wish people actually knew the source material. The original Oz novels by L. Frank Baum are American classics. It's really sad when people know more about derivative works and treat them as canon to novels they've never even read.

[@staticcharm3808]

Larkin Spotted the Book Nerd

[@keiththorpe9571]

Interesting production note from The Wiz: John Badham was originally slated to direct The Wiz, but became interested in another project instead. So, instead of reneging on his contract, he contrived to get himself fired by suggesting that the entire movie be filmed from the perspective of Dorothy (played by Diana Ross) in effect, all but removing Ross from the film, as the audience would never see anything but her hands and arms. Needless to say, this went over like a lead balloon, and Badham was released to go onto his other project. A little indie prod called Saturday Night Fever.

[@UltraPrimal]

17:48 Dude! How awesome would it be if Quentin Tarantino made a grindhouse style Wizard of Oz movie? They keep making all these dark, realistic, live action versions of classic animated movies and other movies like that, like the Wizard of Oz. I'd love it if they just went crazy with it. Just full of camp and gore and color and absurdity.

[@isaacraze4301]

"Witch is a pretty broad term" that's a nice pun.

[@finnianquail8881]

?

[@nm9688]

??

[@reneebingham7872]

Like “witch” refers to women and women are sometimes referred to as “broads”......? That’s as far as I could go 🤷‍♀️

[@hystericallover5989]

“witch is a pretty broad term” sounds like “which is a pretty broad term”

[@kingbowser6991]

Thank you Lindsay, you’ve been on my 14 hour route with me all day!! ❤ ❤❤ love your videos and energy

[@SonjaPond]

Once Upon a Time is wild, but Rebecca Mader does a fantastic job. I love her version of The Wicked Witch. She didn’t get good writing, but she brought ALLLL of the sass to the roll. ❤️

[@rextrek]

well as someone who is 57 and has seen the original more then I can remember...I actually Loved Oz the Great and Powerful..... and Ive been hoping they'd make a sequel to it - since it left us all hanging....

[@matthewbennett9928]

It had a solid ending I think. Besides The Wizard of Oz happens after that.

[@rextrek]

@@matthewbennett9928 well in my story - I surmise - that the WWE since losing ALL her powers/via Neckless...is given the Shoes by her sister WWW......then they plan to return to OZ to STEAL Back the Huge Crystal Ball .which they do ( and is seen in Original ) in the process of stealing it back, they kidnap China Doll...….then OZ & Glinda mount a Rescue of her.....and when they finally arrive at the WWW/WWE "New" Castle ..they find that China Doll is DEAD / Broken to pieces....the Wizard is Hear-Broken...and Promises Vengeance against Them...Hence: he says to Dorothy, Bring me the broomstick of the WWW - KNOWING they'd have to KILL her to do it... ie: his REVENGE! and the original Wizard of OZ premise.....….whatya think?

[@cyancyborg1477]

Okay but, "No Bad News," is an absolute banger.

[@monkeymouse]

I started reading "Wicked", and--a rarity for me and a book--bailed out halfway through. Elphaba was some sort of a mutant--not just green but green with rows of teeth--and we weren't shown the inside of her thoughts anywhere near enough to generate sympathy. BTW: this may not be your lane, but I just finished a British YA novel, Joan Robinson's "When Marnie Was There", and read it in context with its film version from Studio Ghibli, and the adaptation was a masterpiece! Integrated Japanese cultural elements onto a very British book, and it works! As you know, that doesn't always happen.

[@DestinyMarkov]

God bless your soul. That copyright dig at Disney was the best thing I've heard all week XD

[@alexlovessamoyeds]

No matter what you think about the writing, the soundtrack of The Wiz is iconic and wonderful!

[@kathrynbrown279]

Can I just say that I saw that possession scene in Tin Man when I was really young and had no idea what it was but thought it was really interesting, and spent ages trying to find it again only to give up years ago, and I am FREAKING OUT coz I’ve finally found it again and thank you so much!!!

[@kylekirkparick426]

I haven't watched this whole video yet, but in the 1st 5 seconds you referenced my favorite childhood movie (which I watch every year around my birthday (10/31/88)) and also touched on the best "witchy" vocals over all the witches working. I love it already, but I'll watch the whole thing and comment. Bette is priceless, and invaluable to that movie.

[@alexzanderopera]

Being a practicing witch myself of the last 20 years I was delighted in this wonderful review and insightful history lesson xo

[@Zosio]

Yay! I was just searching for this video and was disappointed to see it gone. Glad that it's back up. Probably my favorite Loose Canon

[@daltonhackett6520]

One interesting thing to note about why the 1939 movie is what we remember of The Wicked Witch of the West is that for the longest time the collection of Oz related narratives written by Baum were considered "lesser fiction" and "pointless drivel" by the head of the American Library Association (ALA), a woman who basically controlled by way of her opinions and head position the lists of books acceptable to be on shelves for child consumption. She never liked the books themselves, and, when she gained her position, she placed a ban on the books for reasons of "they are pointless and ridiculous." Because of this, in the late 20s to about the 50s to 60s no one had an actual Oz book to reference. Therefore, the 1939 film actually became the Wonderful Wizard of Oz the world knew because most people who read the books as children had either grown up and did not care or did not truly remember them when compared to the cinematic masterpiece of The Wizard of Oz. Likely, the aesthetic of the witch from the book was too cartoonish and ridiculous for her to be considered an antagonist for the film, so the aesthetic was changed along with aging up all characters so that the stakes were much higher as a movie's should be.

[@monicabrown4766]

Lindsay, thank you so much for making these videos. I know this is an older one but I think what you talk about is so interesting and you make it so entertaining. Thank you!

[@johnmorgan4124]

A fantastic movie. Still geets me after all this time. I remember watching this with my mother, many times 👍

[@alexh1687]

PEASE check the differences in audio levels in your videos ! Kind of hard to watch at night when your voice is so low and the movie clips and music so high :S

[@1GoddessGeek]

I second that!! And my cat thirds that, too!!!

[@hiitscupid3504]

The broom thing came because it was said that leaning brooms upside down near your front door would ward off evil and of course since this is more of a pagan idea it got turned into a witch thing.

[@hannahrose4266]

Your videos and diamond painting have been my quarantine salvation. Thank you!

[@nicolasdiaz1542]

I've heard the broom thing comes from wickens creating a hallucigen that is best applied to the armpits or the groin. So they would apply the mixture to a broom and place the broom between their legs. The flying comes from the hallucinations

[@emily-crawford-soprano9181]

This is awesome, and I'd love for a similar loose canon on the archetype of the witch. Legit I could watch you analyze stuff for hours.

[@tinymxnticore]

I LOVED the Oz books as a kid, and the Wicked musical is very much in the spirit of Baum’s work. The comedy, female empowerment and lack of continuity are all Oz signatures. ✨🌈

[@ballerinafromtheblock]

The wiz is really a reimagined stage play but it also is a sort of reflection of the black experience in its imagery. The whip and many other things in the film have what I consider to be a deeper meaning.

[@safespacebear]

She scared me like no other as a child. I watched it again tonight for the first time in many many years, I'm 43 yr old and she still unnerves me.

[@GoldenRose116]

Well Zelena didn't really die. She just pretended to die

[@AtlanticGiantPumpkin]

PsyduckWaterflower Wow spoilers much

[@GoldenRose116]

its been almost 2 years sooo.

[@willlyon7129]

This is why the logic in this show makes no sense. The writers don't known how the real world works, Iget that it's a fantasy show but it's so unrealistic and unoriginal? This is why I moved on to Grimm, it was way much more creative and intriguing

[@blueestarr16]

Will Lyon she never died. She lost her physical form and used her magic and soul to open the portal and regained herself. It's not really supposed to be like the real world.

[@willlyon7129]

Game of Thrones did a way much better job at having character deaths, they stay dead and don't come back to life. This is why OUAT is going down hill and deserves to be canncled.

[@archive9796]

I guess Lindsay will need to update this due to Emerald City know having West ruining a brothel is quite stereotypical...even if she does have a tragic back story which again is cliché

[@matthewbennett9928]

I loved her in that. I do not see what was stereotypical about her but okay.

[@danielponder690]

you're awesome, I really enjoy these and your academic approach.

[@kkingmusic13]

I get so excited when you make a video about something!!! You really have an amazing talent to engage your viewer & like I said before as a very low intention spanned millennial that's a talent!!!