Independence Day vs. War of the Worlds

[@ContraPoints]

Thanks for talking about this

[@blipboigilgamesh7865]

Eeeey good to see ya here, contra!

[@khole5809]

Queen.

[@rileyhall9320]

I love the rapport between the two of you

[@mattpaxton3528]

By "this" you mean the mouthfeel, right?

[@Gh0st652]

Good fucking praxis

[@drac3650]

Title: Independence Day vs. War of the Worlds Lindsay: The franco-prussian war...

[@Mindbleach]

Lindsay Ellis: Rachel Maddow edition.

[@terracottapie]

@@Mindbleach I must have missed the part where Lindsay yelped frantically about Russia maybe turning off the US power grid possibly tomorrow!

[@nosuchthingasshould4175]

I thought my tablet glitched out and connected me to a different clip.

[@GodlikeGamersz]

I genuinely thought I was watching a video about something other than the films

[@ericnathanstucky246]

280 likes and still an underrated comment

[@MaleTears]

"They have mouths so they can go *blaaahhh* " Alien: blehh.

[@robertlewis6915]

such horrible inaccuracies are typical of her videos

[@alandgomez5905]

Yeah that was pretty funny.

[@jasleduc4638]

They have mouths to experience the mouth feel

[@alandgomez5905]

@@jasleduc4638 ContraPoint? Lol!

[@flankspeed]

LOLapalooza

[@GravityFromAbove]

When I watched Independence Day in 1996 in New York City the audience cheered when New York was destroyed.

[@NewPaulActs17]

oh, boy, wait 5 years...

[@Skiamakhos]

When my wife saw it in Huddersfield they cheered when the White House got blasted.

[@spacecadet28]

Saw it in Houston, and the crowd cheered when Houston got nuked.

[@V4rya]

is it like people cheer when a comedian mentions the city they're in?

[@Skiamakhos]

@@V4rya possibly, or possibly a nihilistic impulse a bit like John Betjeman's poem about Slough - "Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough / It isn't fit for humans now, / There isn't grass to graze a cow. / Swarm over, Death!"

[@katelynoreilly6144]

As an Australian, super surprising to see Tasmania mentioned in this video, since the state barely gets mentioned by mainland Australians. However the genocide of the Indigenous people of Tasmania - an island state with land mass equitable to Ireland, Sri Lanka, or the entire lower half of Britain (including Wales) - is certainly always worthy of attention and acknowledgment. They murdered every man, woman, and child who lived there. They marched them off cliffs into the icy southern ocean where the nearest land mass was Antarctica. This is the example of brutality HG Wells acknowledges.

[@keigoftw]

Motherfucker! TIL a new war crime

[@siddsen95]

There is also the easily overlooked fact that if Jeff Goldblum is in the movie, humanity will always find a way.

[@HackmanDeinesVertrauens]

Hey Friend. In case you have not seen it yet. Jeff had a lot of wonderfull Appearences on the Conan O'Brien Show which i myself just stumbled across for the first Time within the last few Month. Have a great one. Just wanted to share this. :)

[@ianmcintire6696]

Well, *some* group of organisms will find a way.

[@nts3208]

I'm pretty sure that's a law of physics in RL too. As long as Jeff Goldblum is alive we're good.

[@Mant111]

Except when Jeff Goldblum ceases to be human.

[@ianmcintire6696]

Mant111 I know it *sounds* wrong, but even in those, humanity usually *did* find a way, if you think about it.

[@MetalGearRaxis]

Yes, Robbie, that's EXACTLY what the military needs; an untrained, unarmed, undisciplined, teenager.

[@timmoore9855]

You jest but, that is who they recruit. At least when I was in High School. Not disagreeing, though, Robbie is stupid

[@FFKonoko]

@Simple Truths you're talking about a film, where they had complete control over what they had, what happens to them and what they say. If the point was meant to be that he's an idiot douche, then they should have done something with that. Either had his idiot douchery be rebutted, or get a comeuppance, or have him undergo a character arc. The idea that he is an idiot douche and ray letting him go is a big mistake and the explosion is the immediate sign that it was a bad idea and here is the sign that he should not have let him go...is very much untouched for the rest of the film, lacking in regret, reflection or growth and then abruptly, oh he's fine, here's a hug now, I guess it all worked out and they're good now.

[@FFKonoko]

@Simple Truths You missed my point entirely if you thought I wanted them to resolve the crisis or didn't want the story to focus on what crisis does to people. The problem there is that the teenage son running off and appearing to die is a crisis and we don't see it do anything to him. And then the crisis vanishes. The main crisis resolving by itself had a greater purpose of "oh look, god put bacteria here, clever twist", but that had no greater purpose and has no explanation of how it is 'resolved'. They hug and it's over. There is no exploration of the crisis or it having any effect on either of them. And beyond that, if that was the plan...then they also did a lot of time wasting set ups for things that never come.

[@FFKonoko]

@Simple Truths that's a lot of very subjective interpretation that I don't feel was actually present in the film. The concepts you present are good. Though crazy guy in basement is if anything a bit too on the nose. It being a movie that showed the effects of crisis was part of your premise. But an internal shift from not caring about them in a whiny way out of irresponsibility, into one that presents like not caring about the dead one in a quiet way, out of responsibility for the other? Your reading makes sense and is good, but the movie itself just didn't convince me that was the intended reading. The author is dead, so I'm glad you can enjoy it that way, but I personally don't consider it a very well presented "this is what crisis does" moment. It feels less like you tell it and more like horror and trauma and then a lucky break, with minimal characterization outside blank slate mixed with deadbeat? Hard to specify, but while some of the beats got closer than others.. The concepts you present for some of those beats are good, and I appreciate you sharing them. Personally, I'd accept the idea of impulsive kid trying to go join the army, but I'd rather have that moment be a more visible shift in dynamic. Have him show he cares by, in contrast to earlier car theft reaction, and in sheer desperation, having actually seen what the tripods can do, punching Robbie. Have the explosion then be a confirmation that he was right that it was a bad idea... but punched Robbie doesn't see it and runs away in the night. Literally the rest of the movie could play the same. The numb reaction to him being gone then reads differently, protecting his daughter works better, as does Robbie showing up shell shocked and hugging his dad, an inherent "I saw some shit and now know why you did it, I'm sorry", unclouded by "wait how did he survive that?"

[@iqbalindaryono8984]

@@binturongman328 you say that as if soldiers are deployed without training whatsoever

[@katieyouoldfool5174]

It's so odd to think about the idea of "pre 9/11" culture as a younger person. In September 2001, I had just started kindergarten and that day was my first memory of watching the news. I have never consumed media without that context. 90s disaster movies feel dated to me in a similar way to 60s westerns, in that neither understands the (now seemingly obvious) implications of their own action.

[@notnotkavi]

I think that maybe I was a bit younger (I was just entering preschool in 2001), but I never really saw the 9/11 footage outside of history class. I literally just realized watching this video that the wall of pictures in Battlestar Galactica is an explicit 9/11 reference.

[@darthkamen6564]

I was 9 months old at the time of 9/11. I don't really have anything else to add....

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Damn I feel old LOL

[@fangsabre]

I was in daycare when 9/11 happened. Watching the towers fall on a screen bigger than I was (it was a big TV, I was gonna start Kindergarden the next fall). I have memories of media and a certain sense of uncaring optimism. Being able to ask my mom about the world, just starting to understand the concept of a larger globe beyond just a state or country and not having the answers tinged by fear. When Saturday's meant cartoons on TV and staying home because my parents didnt have to work, instead of the news being first and foremost what was on weekend mornings. And I remember that optimism going away. Everyone felt angry, scared, both. My father even thought about rejoining the military because he didnt know how else to respond. My brother was old enough to really get what had happened and got quieter. I didnt understand what had happened to the world at large and the implications, but I understood what I saw on the screen. The planes took down the buildings. And now I cant hear a low flying plane without feeling the impulse to find it in the sky and see how low it is.

[@kayEnt3rtainm3nt]

I'm old enough to remember what life was like pre 9/11 but not when westerns were anything other than fodder for studies of genocide as portrayed by pop culture as well as first nation's peoples. Your comment actually has me really intregued by the possibility of what could have shifted us away from "how the west was won" towards the cultural re-appraisal you've cited. Unlike with 9/11 though which is an easy to cite singular source, the mid to late 20th century seemed like a perfect storm of culture shifts that would make it hard to pin down. Still, it would make for great essay fodder for Lindsay, though I imagine her previous writings on Pocahontas might make it somewhat redundant. Or would they? Food for thought.

[@noahbaden90]

"Despite Robbie running into a literal fireball, he's fine" It's fine, this is fine. He's fine. It's fine. He's fine, this is fine. It's all fine. They're fine.

[@shelby4355]

He's the actual embodiment of the "this is fine" meme 😂

[@LSRandomHandle]

wait. Which video is this referencing? It's doing my head in trying to remember

[@lucaschagas3141]

@@LSRandomHandle The Hunchback of Notre Dame video.

[@DrSpaceman42]

It's FINE.

[@Melody_Raventress]

Everyone's just...fine.

[@Tron239]

The thing with the "Please let me go, you need to let me go..." scene I think Spielberg was going for was to symbolize the phenomenon soon after 9/11 with how many young Americans enlisted in the military. Especially because this is the same character who said the line "We catch up with these soldiers and with whoever else isn't dead and we get back at them! We get back at them!" Robbie is supposed to be the allegory for all the clueless young people that went and enlisted in the army to go running into a situation they really had no idea what they were in for. It would have been more stronger if Robbie died, but yeah, I think that's what Spielberg was trying to say with that scene.

[@BollocksUtwat]

Woulda made more sense if Robbie got maimed and fucked up by it but we aren't making a mini series.

[@shotgun6X]

Robbie starts fighting "Aliens" but it turns out he was just being used to harvest oil all along

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

Well those aliens were buried long enough. I'm sure they burn good.

[@kirbyjoe7484]

@@Yuilen What rock have you been living under for the last 20 years? Perhaps you are in a radically different age group and socioeconomic demographic than I am, but I thought pretty much everyone in this country knew at least a couple of Robbies. I personally knew a handful of people who were either already in the military or who signed up after 9/11 who were raring at the bit to go off and murder whoever they were pointed at so long as somebody important told them they were the enemy. Sadly, not all of them got their happy ending and came back in one piece like the kid in the movie. One of those poor souls now has no legs and another is a drunk, mentally ill shell of who he once was that is violent towards his own wife and children. I was not close enough to speak with all of them after they got back, but the few I did had VERY different attitudes about the wars after they returned. Spielberg didn't nail Robbie's character arc, but the message he was aiming to show us was not wrong. Blind anger makes us stupid and easy to manipulate and unless you stop and try to get your bearings before rushing head long into dangers you do not comprehend for reasons you don't really understand, you might just end up dead or worse. I think for Robbie's character arc to be completed he needed to either end up dead or maimed.

[@shindari]

@@kirbyjoe7484 Everyone talks about the guys who simply ran off and enlisted in the wake of the attacks. But nobody bothers to spare a thought for those of us who were already enlisted, and joined, when the attacks went down. In September, 2001, I was halfway through Naval Bootcamp when the Towers fell. It was the only time, for nine weeks, that I was allowed to watch television. Because Bootcamp rules (which restricted new recruits from watching television until boot camp was over with) just seemed palsy, and meaningless, on that Tuesday in September. I remember sitting in my barracks room, with about a hundred other enlisted newbies that day, watching things unfold on CNN, and wondering what the hell I had gotten myself into, as I watched the planes crash, and then the towers fall. I had intended to join the Navy during peacetime, and reap the rewards of serving my country without ever really throwing myself into harm's way. Now, just five weeks after enlisting, I was facing the very REAL possibility of DYING as a consequence of my casual career choice. If you're a human being, and you make a critical life choice, and that choice ends up getting TURNED UPSIDE DOWN on you shortly after you're past the point of no return, it can render you legitimately unable to THINK! I can't recall having a single coherent thought about that day until about a week after it happened. For a good long time, it all just seemed so unbelievable, like it didn't actually happen, and I just dreamed it. Only to wake up every day afterward, and realize the nightmare continues... Guys like me... we HAD no choice! We were thrown into the War on Terror without that even being our want or desire. And yet, we still fought for our country. Not because we WANTED to, but because we HAD to. (I, for one, actually ENVIED the soldiers who were enthusiastic about it. I was not.) I was lucky, in the regard that I chose exactly the right service (Terrorists, even the best ones, don't have a navy to fight against). And so I served for four years, during the PEAK of the fighting in the Middle East, without ever really coming close to annihilation. I know the memory of many others who were not so lucky. May they continue to rest in peace... And may they FINALLY GET A MOVIE for America to remember them by!

[@jessehilton1337]

“It’s dumb as a bag of rocks...and it’s one of my favorite movies. I love it.” God bless you

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

The recycled message and they are a plague of locus just like us fighting ourselves.

[@Smolderz]

It's a funpocalypse! Yaaay!

[@FinalManaTrigger]

I called it, too. LOL'ed so hard when she admitted it.

[@GrimmHooke]

This comment summarized my enjoyment of the film, too.

[@NotTheStinkyCheese]

ain't nothing with enjoying a dumb movie

[@jadeandjesse5908]

While it might be somewhat unintentional on Spielberg's part, I feel a blanket statement of "Disaster dehumanizes people" is not only shallow, but also incorrect. Nearly every major disaster in recorded history inspired both intense depravity and intense compassion. Thematically portraying it as both, to me, is the most logical option. I feel his integration of the more compassionate view of humanity is just sloppily done, as there wasn't a change in circumstance or community.

[@phastinemoon]

Probably the best way to explain it - like, maybe there was more in the screenplay, but it got cut during editing or due to executive meddling. But the film we GOT definitely feels like the message was supposed to be “humans are monsters”

[@cyprel]

I would argue that Spigeberg actually *does* do exactly that. So I'd disagree with Lindsay on this point. There's the attack on the car and the guy losing his mind. That the one side. But we DO actually see the other side, too. For example: 1) The ferry scene, when Robbie helps more people get on board and Ray watches, clearly with some admiration, realizing his son might be doing the right thing. 2) The scene where Ray and Robbie get separated, and Rachel is left alone for a moment. A woman runs up to her and tries to protect/help her, refusing to leave her behind. Such moments are symbolic of Ray's character arc: He starts out 'every man for himself' constantly screaming at his own children and letting Robbie deal with Rachel because he can't handle it. And he ends up learning what his kids actually need from him. I also think Ray 'letting Robbie go' is part of that idea: Ray realizing that there might be a value in not just fending for yourself but running towards the danger in order to protect others. Which brings me to the army as another positive example here. They didn't turn into monsters. We see them protecting people in several instances. We don't see them 'nuking their own people' or taking advantage of their power, like some other movies do. I never saw this movie and felt like the message was just that "humans are monsters" at all

[@seanbeadles7421]

Spielberg saying crisis dehumanizes people while also being the guy who made Schindler’s List is a level of irony I’ll never be able to achieve.

[@MRawesome202]

@@seanbeadles7421 isn't part of the point of both that he is trying to say that horrible tragedies can bring out both the worst evil in some and the greatest good in others?

[@MRawesome202]

@@charlesreid9337 lol how dare she expect good writing in movies.

[@dariscar5218]

"In the end, it was not guns and bombs that defeated the aliens, but that humblest of all God's creatures, the Tyrannosaurus Rex."

[@Nikarus2370]

Instead of pacific rim where we build giant robots to fight the giant monsters. We build the giant monsters to fight the giant robots.

[@mothcub]

my fav part was when alien went "bweehh" thank you

[@Raw774]

I hope that’s humanities first contact. An alien disinterestedly waving their hand and going “Bweh.”

[@Shmandalf]

It certainly looks like it has that 'bweh' kind of breath, too.

[@russelltyler9363]

I enjoyed this part too.

[@becauseimafan]

@@Raw774 "The aliens landed, went 'bweh', and left again." 😂

[@gucci2468]

blehhhh

[@HarperNguyen]

Arrival is probably my favourite invasion text. The invasion is purely in the mind of those who fear the unknown, and those who embrace the other is imparted with knowledge and self growth.

[@MentalParadox]

Solaris is another good one. An alien being so massive and 'alien' that we don't even recognize it as 'alive' at first. All attempts at communication with it fail, as it's like trying to say hello to bacteria. Our 'minds' are just vastly different and fundamentally incompatible.

[@iunary]

I thought charlie sheens performance was really awful in that one... oh wait that was THE arrival right xD? , oh hey that movie was about global warming, its probably outlawed now in the us

[@robertharris6092]

Well realistically aliens are going to be more advanced than us due to how long life on earth took to apear. Its more than likely aliens would simply want the planets materials. Especially liquid water.

[@xBINARYGODx]

@@robertharris6092 Except that you can easily find pretty much ANY resource in vastly higher quantities off of the planet Earth. You could easily, if an advanced alien race, mine the Kuiper belt for trillions of tons of [insert resource here] without humans in 2019 being aware it is happening. Of course, if there was actual reason to attack humanity, just throw an asteroid that is large enough and with enough speed at the planet and your done.

[@TrixiLovesYou]

Eh?

[@philbertmill2]

Producer: "we ran out of money for the movie..." Director: "how much can we afford?" Producer: "well... we can afford a basement... aaaand a Tim Robins..." Director: "I can make it work"

[@Saramusvasque2838]

I dont know what's funnier. The idea that theres a grubby Tim Robbins in a basement that's up to contract for movie studios, or the idea that a Spielberg production has budget limits.

[@kedabro1957]

To be fair, those scenes with that character were pretty faithful to the book. Except in the book the disappointing savior's problem was his lack of discipline to carry out any of his plans. He lost focus and gave up halfway through everything he started.

[@estudiordl]

Director: I'm freaking Spilberg, yo...

[@Robert399]

Without Tim Robbins they could've had 2 basements :(

[@TheBlarggle]

@@Robert399 Without the basement they could have had 2 Tim Robbins.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

24:08 as much as it hurts the story, it IS also fairly realistic to expect a child to be traumatised beyond belief by everything that she's been put through by this point.

[@TheScarletSlayer]

We all know if this was made today that little girl would somehow figure out how to destroy the aliens. IDK HOW but you know women's power and all that. Just ask the clone girl from Jurassic world ( Her): haha I released dinosaurs onto the world .3.

[@AndrewGivens]

It happens to one of the Narrator's brother's companions during their escape from London to the coast in the OSM. Totally breaks down mentally.

[@jp3813]

There's actually a visual arc set up for the character of Rachel constantly running away from Ray towards Robbie's arms whenever she's scared. The payoff happens after Ray kills Ogilvy to protect her, then she goes into her father's arms for the first time in the movie. But since Robbie is now gone, her whole arc is reduced to "You're pretty much all I've got at this point."

[@stevenirizarry1304]

That is not much of an arc because she learns nothing and does nothing to learn anything. A better arc would have been Rachel transforming herself from a scared coddled girl into someone willing to hold the hand grenade as she is being pulled up into the ship in a self sacrifice scene.

[@jp3813]

@@stevenirizarry1304 Well, the arc is supposed to develop her relationship w/ Ray. Especially since she tells Robbie that no one's gonna take care of her if he goes. Which makes him pretty much the worst brother ever for just leaving anyway. As for your suggestion, we may need to increase her age a bit for various reasons.

[@williamhiers1280]

It's interesting they named Tim Robbins' character Ogilvy. From a plot standpoint, he's a composite of the curate and the artilleryman from Wells' novel. But in the book, Ogilvy was the name of the narrator's friend who gets killed at the start. Josh Friedman and David Koepp should've had Ray's mechanic friend who gets killed be named Ogilvy and called Robbins' character something else. The only possible reason I can conceive of for naming Robbins' character Ogilvy is that to modern audiences it looks and sounds like an unpleasant name, and Harlan Ogilvy is an unpleasant character. If this is in fact the case, I find it to be incredibly disappointing of Friedman and Koepp, and Spielberg as well.

[@natturallyfreeriders7545]

@@stevenirizarry1304 That reminds me of anime plot. Also, you forgot a point and it is Ray's initial interaction with his children, he acts too arrogant and confident, and it is seen that he screwed up terribly, which leaves us to imagine what Ray will have done so that his children do not love him oh respect a lot.

[@MainTopmastStaysail]

@@stevenirizarry1304 I would argue that teaching children to be suicide bombers is bad and would not make for a good arc.

[@cassianoneto1553]

Another important aspect of the original War of the worlds is the message at the end. Humanity doesn’t heroically have a last stand or even come close to put up a fight. We’re saved by bacteria. The author intended on having WotW become a humbling tale for victorian Society, who thoutgh very highly of themselves as owners of the world and an unbeatable superpower. The protagonist basically spells out fot us at the end that humanity is but a spec in the middle of the universe that’s nowhere close from becoming the biggest fish in the universe pool.

[@bananian]

I liked that the ending just peters out too. Just makes it that much more believable. I remember during the time of SARS, there doesn't seem to be an end to it. Then suddenly it was over.

[@theGhoulman]

Erm, not saved by bacteria. I'm with ya in wanting a YAY! science ending, but it's not there. There's a conceit, and it's given to God. The text is clear in saying that 'God in his wisdom' (created said bacteria); So, God created bacteria ... suddenly? Thus, in War of the Worlds it was God who saved the Earth. Hey, at least people got to wonder what bacteria was?

[@gnarlestongnu637]

War of the World benefited from having a point. If you've ever seen an interview with Emerich you know he's basically just building whatever plot around the chance to blow stuff up, even moreso back when ID came out than his more recent films.

[@lawriedower2531]

Spells it out in the opening line too: 'No one would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man’s and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water.'

[@z-beeblebrox]

@@theGhoulman But it's important to remember that H.G. was writing only a few decades after the discovery of germ theory. The entire notion of microscopic life was pretty alien, and hey, maybe they were put on Earth by God exactly for that reason. Would make just as much sense as any other theory, if your knowledge of bacteria and viruses was that limited. That was kind of the point: he chose a field science knew the least about - and was only just barely scratching into - as the savior of the story, because that further emphasized how little human mastery was involved in the defeat of the Invaders. It was a field humans knew little of and had no control over. Pointed for the time, but pretty dated now. To recapture that in an adaptation, you'd want to shift the goalposts into another subject we don't have a handle on, and given that the modern conception of unexplored scientific fields is "Ooo yay, sci fi!" instead of "Oh no, we don't control it!" that the Victorian mindset had, I'd probably steer clear of science or technology in general as the modern version of what defeats the Invaders. I'm not sure there's a satisfying answer to this question, but then again...maybe War of the Worlds plays out better if we just lose? I don't know.

[@rachelr3484]

The War of the Worlds movie was the first movie to really terrify me as a pre-teen. It brought that reality of war to me in a way I had never understood as that age.

[@GeahkBurchill]

About the kid who had no reason to want to join the military because he didn’t witness destruction first-hand... Storytime, because I’ve seen exactly that response before. Growing up, I got beat up a lot and I had a little brother who was often with me. I grew up in a rough neighborhood. Fights happened daily. We were the minorities in that neighborhood and we were often targeted for that reason. Often I was ganged up on, but I always shoved my little brother behind me. He never got the worst of it. He saw me get beat up a lot though. Years later, my little brother took a very different lesson than I did. He grew up angry and vengeful and, sadly, bigoted. I had plenty of friends who were of the same people as those who beat me up. I learned to see individuals in a way my kid brother did not. This seems to me to be analogous to the kid in the movie. It’s not the people who live at the border who are afraid of, and hate, immigrants. It’s not the people directly effected by persecution who are the most angry. It seems to often be those who are one step removed. Perhaps because they WEREN’T targeted. It wasn’t the people in the WTC towers who survived and signed up to go to Afghanistan. Just something I notice about the human condition.

[@StoicVeR]

that's a good point. I don't want to get too political on your post, but here we go. It's the same argument with the South border and the Government shut down. A lot of people DO feel outrage and actually believe that there is a crisis with immigrants just flooding across, like some kind of invasion. But most of these outrage folk probably don't even live near the border states, which contradicts with the ideas of those who are living on border states/cities. We really don't see a crisis. Most of us don't feel endangered, threatened, or irate with people coming across seeking asylum. But there are exceptions. More on topic with your observation, a lot of people today get outraged for the injustice of done onto others, and they get upset or react in a counterproductive manner.

[@benjaminholcomb9478]

Another view from a border state. It doesn't matter how they got here, or why, or even how long they've been here. What matters is what they do while they're here and the attitude behind it. If they take an interest in the existing culture, and try to take the best parts of both it can be an amazing thing to experience (just think of various foods if you need a simple example). It's really the attitude of the individual that matters. I know plenty of people who are 1st and 2nd generation who love this country and its freedoms as well as their traditions, there are others who are born here and who's families have been here a long time and they hold some sort of fantasy about their "home culture" whilst never experiencing it in its true form, just the stereotypes they themselves have formed and they even lack basic cultural traditions. This really supports your theory on the human mind in a specific setting at an interesting scale. I've never seen these 2 mix and it leaves them with an entirely different opinion from each other with just a slightly different perspective. Which is sad because it leaves the latter missing out chasing something else they think they want. Its is interesting to think about.

[@wesleyacosta4246]

Robbie was doing what many young people did after 9/11 joined the military for revenge. The most notable person was seen in American Sniper.

[@Tamaki742]

That makes sense, actually, and often times in stories too, they're the characters who'd ask, "Why didn't you fight back? Why didn't you get angry?"

[@sirf4ce]

@@wesleyacosta4246 1 to 1 allegory is BORING! This is narrative storytelling. What people do in the real world is important and informs behavior but in a narrative, Robbie can't just be untrustworthy AND angry AND too stupid to live AND survive! Some price must be paid. Not that any of that matters because he didn't join the military for revenge. He went to the top of the hill, not to join the battle, but to fucking look at it! There is a reason it's called a story arch. Characters need growth through revelation, realization, loss, sacrifice, etc. Something that changes them for good or ill. Where is Robbie's growth? He's an untrustworthy, emo tool bag, changes not one iota and is rewarded by surviving his non-stop stupidity tour and just connects with his dad? What!?! Firstly, Robbie's motivation has to be fucking ironclad for him to rush, headlong into a military-alien invader war, unarmed. And for what? To gander at it. He should have lost someone. A friend, a girlfriend, his mom...someone! Then he'd be sufficiently enraged and want to JOIN the battle. Which ISN'T what he does. He just wants lo look at it! Robbie has to pay for his ignorance. Narratively, if he is to survive, he has to emerge from the battle with a great loss, a scar. If 1 to 1 is what Spielberg wants, Robbie must join the fight(you know...armed!) and come back paralyzed or missing a arm. The arm makes sense. The game of catch with his dad that he took for granted is something he can never have again. It makes that catch scene much more important. *"You have to let me go"...why? Dude, you're 16! I might suck at being a father but you haven't become a man, you weirdo trash pile! So, fact of business, I don't have to let you go anywhere! Even if you had displayed some maturity(which you haven't) I'm not gonna let you go take a peak at the murder machines!* Robbie, what a stupid motivation, you have! Oh, the better to kill myself with, father!

[@-MrFozzy-]

Have mouths so they can go bwaaah.... Film : bwaaah Priceless

[@phuctifyno1]

Me: bwaaah

[@xxxEarthEliafairyxxx]

bwaaah

[@DirkDjently]

That's more like a... It's a warrior like... It strikes fear into the...heart of...

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

Is it the terrorists?!

[@greenyawgmoth]

"It is dumb as a bag of rocks and is one of my favorite movies ever. I love it." This is 100% how I feel about it too. It just hits all those ridiculous Summer Blockbuster points so damn well.

[@MonzterMichelle]

Watching this during the Corona Virus situation and seeing the current response from media, people, event closures, social distancing, paranoia... I wonder what books and films will come in the future.

[@Frankensteins_Highboy]

I want a movie ahowing the absurdity of all of the current situation Construction workers and truck drivers and fast food workers and shipping companies are the only thing left The rest of the world has fallen

[@th3rasave]

If there is a future...

[@Tareltonlives]

This is very apt: The paralysis, the denial, the anger, the terror and panic and hyperbole leading to rejection of reality

[@hektivity6410]

The aspect of social isolation is definitely going to be a factor in the coming years. Watch someone make a movie about quarantine

[@SoloJona]

Nobody would believe actual footage of aliens. Half the country would believe it was made up to inject people with WiFi or something

[@Ccccccccccsssssssssss]

Sometimes I'm daunted when I see a Lindsay Ellis video and it's THIRTY-FRIGGING-MINUTES-LONG. Then I start watching and all of a sudden it's over and I'm wishing there was more...

[@stephencobb1837]

Ditto. Absolutely ditto.

[@millalove]

@@stephencobb1837 Ditto as well. Thritto?

[@PhilosophyTube]

This was one of your best videos; it's brilliant!

[@Poopmannn]

Uhh, hmm… 🤔 first, I guess!

[@aoifecaetan9832]

Moral of the video: Nemo is a great film

[@reikun86]

Aoife Caetan Hands Down

[@merrittanimation7721]

@@dislike_button33 Get out.

[@acecat2798]

I think a more satisfying arc for Robbie would've been starting out as a know-it-all teen who's independent in part because of his dad's absence and toxic masculinity dictating that he be a lone warrior type as the only proper way to be a man, but learns that social dependency is a fact of life. This wouldn't need to be "we all team up to save the world," it could be asking his dad for help or even breaking down crying (this would be helped if he had seen at least some of the real cost of this and had been internalizing it into rage). In this case, he could make for a counterpoint to Rachel (who learns she *can* get the bag), who stands on her own two feet in some way. The conclusion in this case would be that all of the family are interdependent contributors- not coddled loads like Rachel nor lone wolves like Robbie that are both destructive to the family dynamic that Ray has created by his absence. Ray would also benefit from this, because he would both have to actively care for his children while accepting their help in return. Anyone have thoughts on this version of the arc?

[@sean_d]

Yeah. That's the standard Tom Cruise story arc isn't it? At least in his early days. Top Gun, Days of Thunder, Jerry Maguire, Rain Man, Cocktail... The brash confident 'I don't need anybody' guy discovers that hes not invincible and in life even tough guys need people. Be kind of ironic to have Robbie steal that role.

[@endymion3071]

So what you are saying it they should have had the same family dynamic as the group from Jurassic Park? With everyone needing help or offering help to another in the run time of the film.

[@johnharrison1573]

I think the themes were executed well without redemptive conclusions. Sometimes points just.... are

[@Aedrion-]

Yes 100% this. And after the ferry scene, I thought that's where we were going. Robby had helped people get onto the boat and had now seen the horror of the tripods first hand. I assumed he would turn from 'let's kill them' to 'we have to stick together and help people'. Rachel meanwhile had seen the horrors her dad had tried to protect her from and could have gained some urgency in her life, the responsibility for her own well-being since others would not be able to carry her weight through the literal apocalypse. Then came the fight on the hill scene and the movie ended for me.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

@@sean_d Magnolia is the best example of this

[@erockio]

"It will never be 1996 again. You cannot go back to independence day" - Ellis, 2019

[@iandakariann]

You can sell that as a bumper sticker. Seriously

[@TheLowBrassDude]

Yeah we figured that out with Independence Day Resurgence.

[@nerzenjaeger]

She contradicts herself in the same video (remember the 1890 analogy). Civilisation is cyclic.

[@Theomite]

TIMECOP *LIED* TO ME!!!

[@keigoftw]

But I can crawl under this weighted blanket and play my favorite game until an hour after I should have been asleep.

[@franconius85]

What if robbie stayed in the third act giving him a chance to meet Tim robbins and see the extreme version of himself and how his violent aproach may put in danger his loved ones, making him bond with his dad again and now the two of them fight Tim robbins or something like that, also in the end the grandparents and the mom die but now they have each other

[@JosephDickersonUX]

Better.

[@Raven.flight]

Yup, you could even have Robbie side with Ogilvy "coz at least he's trying to DO something... unlike YOU dad" but quickly realise 'this guy is a loon, and that could be me' of his own volition. I like it. In fact, you could have had your whole remaining act(s) be that with them coming out of the basement to find the aliens all dead.

[@LuciaFiero]

This was exactly the writers' point. It would have been too much for the father to have killed the son to save the daughter (as in the apocryphal story of the mother who smothers her baby while hiding from Nazis in order to save the rest of the family, but that's the reference here.) So they used the Robbins character as a stand in for the son. This is why the boy has to run off with the troops.

[@poiluparadis]

Choncino you should write Spielberg a time traveling letter and let him know how to wrap it up.

[@Draycoe]

This, completely remove the super hero killing the tripod and just have the family survive the lunatic. Such a good idea!

[@shodancat1000]

I will always forgive the flawed character arcs in War of the Worlds for that sweet, sweet Tripod carnage. God, the sound and visuals as they tear our shit up gives me goosebumps every damn time. I genuinely feel scared of those things.

[@skellymom]

Yeah, that fog horn was creepy!

[@shodancat1000]

@@skellymom Heck yeah it was. Also, the music is awesome too when the Tripods are on screen (or at least most of the time IIRC.) It really built up the tension and added to the sense of "holy fuck, you better run your ass off *right now.*"

[@Ryotsu2112]

Shodan Cat It was even creepier (and also didn’t make much sense) that they were buried in the earth for a very long time, and the pilots rode frikkin bolts of lighting to get to them.

[@Sinistaire]

I can't stop gushing about the design of the tripods. Everything about them is awesome.

[@21Arrozito]

Yes, War of the Worlds is more memorable to me because of those legitimately terrifying human extermination sequences. Independence Day is far more forgettable to me, even if the story and character arcs work better.

[@chrisparkes]

War of the Worlds is one of the grimmest popcorn movies ever made: I remember being stunned at Spielberg’s use of Holocaust and 9/11 imagery. It felt like an attempt to process historical trauma, and I love it when big movies smuggle that stuff in. I think Robocop and Starship Troopers both do this better than any other examples I can think of.

[@robertstuart480]

And both of those films were directed by Paul Verhoeven.

[@simons.2281]

I thought War of the Worlds was genuinely terrifying and disturbing. It's a shame that they did a half assed job on the characters, cause besides that, the movie is pretty damn good, imo.

[@SaberRexZealot]

The movie had a pretty big effect on me as a kid. The premise of the film is ridiculously bleak for a PG-13 summer blockbuster in retrospect but I really admire the gumption. It definitely had a lot of room for improvement as far as plot and character go but as is it’s still a very fun and frightening film that I think everyone can enjoy.

[@stardappledgreen]

Compare both of these to Arrival...what if the aliens show up and despite being scary looking and probably having the capability to invade, they're actually here to teach us and ally with us?

[@troyhelton7867]

Charlie "tiger blood" Sheen was in that. 😉🤓 That was before all of the WINNING !!! 😆👍

[@alexl6644]

That would be a truly fascinating subject to make a video on. I really hope she does one.

[@turbochargedfilms]

Or Doom Eternal... What if the aliens (or the mortally challenged) show up but the perspective of the protagonist is of THEIR fears and anxieties?

[@w415800]

I don't think the Sectopods can be judged to be inherently benign just based on the first movie, don't forget that they needed us for their survival, so they approached us with purpose, what about the species that they deemed a threat in the future, or what would happen to us after we helped them.

[@juggling8557]

Such a good movie. I hate that great original ideas often barely get any recognition, and something can be awful but it will sell tickets as long as "oooh it has spider man in it!"

[@CreoTan]

One thing I want to point out: Marlin lost not only his wife, but all of his dozens and dozens of unborn children, _and_ the attack left Nemo, the last of his children, disabled. He lost literally _everything_ except for Nemo, and Nemo had countless siblings who never got to see the light of day.

[@judymcclenny9549]

What does this comment have to do with the video? Or the movies being critiqued?

[@judymcclenny9549]

Oh, okay, never mind. I just forgot about that one clip.

[@firebladetenn6633]

Creo this is a fact that mentioning would have lengthened the video and nothing else. The point was the effect it had on Marlin. She could also have mentioned all the times he doubts Dory and gets them more in danger.

[@Moonlit.Marauder]

Having only watched 10 minutes of the video, this comment was a slap in the face 😂😂

[@chickensangwich97]

Something Lindsay implies that I never fully realized until this essay: losing Nemo in the Lock-In is so terrifying because to Marlin, it confirms all of his worst fears and anxieties. The world *really is* out to get him, he *really can't* let his guard down, even for one moment, or he will lose everything he's ever loved all over again. Pixar didn't hold back in the 2000's.

[@jonseyjones321]

When Rachel asks for a lullabies and Ray doesn't know any of them, he has a look of guilt, and he then proceeds to sing a song off the top of his head to calm her. When he sees Robbie again, he stands and stares, then hugs him, which could be argued as a continuation of his guilt and the hug is actual appreciation over his son, whereas before he didn't overtly care. This really could have been more emphasized, as well as a complete arc for the two kids, which could tie into Ray's realization.

[@SantaFishes101]

yessss..! this movie is about family at its core, and the aliens are a backdrop. this is important!

[@jp3813]

I don't think that's a complete arc for the two kids. Rachel expected her father to sing her a song and still got it. Ray already showed that he cares about Robbie when the former was begging the latter to stay. Which really has nothing to do w/ Robbie's non-existent character development about trying to fight back.

[@grimrpercos]

I remember watching War of the Worlds with my father when I was like 8 and it absolutely terrified me because of it felt so tragic and real. I was traumatized for years ...thanks dad

[@anau.u9827]

@@hurdygurdyguy1 What was it with parents taking their kids to watch this movie? My parents did the same with me :')

[@Aedrion-]

You got Rachel'd.

[@MajklAstarin]

@@anau.u9827 Me as well. I was like 11 :D

[@thearmoredgeorgian2736]

Exactly what Wells intended

[@rachelwillis3331]

I remember watching this with my friend, both of our names are Rachel, and we were terrified.

[@MonarchsFactory]

Analysing Pacific Rim from similar perspectives interests me, since it's a contemporary example of an invasion story with a cold, un-empathetic enemy and human protagonists IN ADDITION to being a big-robots-save-the-planet text. It even has an undercurrent of "the peaceful approach is dumb we have to take the fight to them" and a veneer of global cooperation despite a very US centric core, like Independence Day. The angle of environmentalism and humanity inviting an invasion seems new though.

[@agilemind6241]

Another crucial difference is that in Pacific Rim it is the politicians who are pushing the wrong approach (trying to build walls and shutting down the Yaeger Program) and the military who are correct.

[@dogeyes7261]

MonarchsFactory in the commentary the director expressly wanted a multinational team with the theme that militarism isn’t the main answer to problems

[@vanyadolly]

I agree that looking at Pacific Rim within this context would be interesting, but there is no "veneer" of global cooperation, nor a "US centric core". I'm kind of interested to hear how you came to that conclusion at all, with Stacker being British, the shatterdome and most of the action taking place in Hong Kong, and Raleigh,a washed-up glorified Canadian, being the only American main character.

[@alldamnnamesaretaken]

@@vanyadolly The hero is a yank it's always a yank and all the other characters exist in his function it's extra frustrating when the characters existing to confirm the hero as the hero are all non yanks.

[@TomCantDance]

vanyadolly It does feel American, though. The different countries are a great backdrop but its rich multiculturalism might make it feel more American since it’s a melting pot of people rejecting the government’s ideas whilst having fist fights with an enemy that is far stronger than them. That feels American. Or, at least, it feels like the American ideal. I really like Pacific Rim, for the record.

[@radastir]

And next: Edge of Tomorrow vs. Groundhog day.

[@petrusjnaude7279]

Do this. Do it now.

[@anubusx]

Bill Murray would take out the aliens.

[@littlefieryone2825]

@@anubusx Bill Murray: I'm a god.

[@yor90]

ha yes

[@yor90]

ha yes

[@jasonblalock4429]

26:42 I have an answer to this, and I honestly think it's what Spielberg and Koepp intended. They were trying to make a statement - a statement mirroring the anti-imperial tones of the original novel - but people completely missed it. Either Spielberg & Koepp were too subtle, or because it simply wooshed by people unprepared to deal with the idea that... Ray's culminating moment is when he decides to become a suicide bomber. War Of The Worlds was about trying to get Americans to understand the sheer terror of being invaded by an unstoppably advanced force, and having *NO* defense, and suffering loss after loss after loss until a person has nothing left to lose, and is willing to let themselves die just for the sake of making one spiteful futile final blow that said "You can be hurt too." It's about how everyday regular people become terrorists. Likewise, Tom Cruise doesn't grow or succeed as a character because that's not his arc. He must be rendered a complete failure, utterly impotent to do ANYTHING to save his family or his people. Even his son being a gigantic asshole, who Ray let walk straight to his death, is all a part of this. By the end of the movie, Ray only sees one option to stop being a failure: Turn himself into a trojan horse and make a big explosion. An explosion, incidentally, that he had to realize would also greatly endanger all the other captives, his daughter included, either in the initial blast or in the resulting tripod crash. He was willing to kill everyone, just to hurt the Martians a little. But then everything magically works out OK and he's saved by total strangers and his daughter isn't catatonic and the Martians didn't get their vaccinations and even his asshole son somehow survived a massive field-clearing fireball with no harm done. YAY! (Or was it an Owl Creek Bridge ending?)

[@Trepanee]

this comment was pretty revelatory and sad. Thanks for leaving it.

[@gnarlestongnu637]

It was a rewrite ending because Tom Cruise was in the movie.

[@eustatic3832]

good comment. i liked this movie at the time, for a different reason, but i agree with this perspective

[@CaptainBagman]

"Ray's culminating moment is when he decides to become a suicide bomber." The radicalization narrative is very obvious outside of the US I believe.

[@Strife57]

This is just a limit of storytelling. Telling stories about the people who don't make it, and who die pointlessly, is not entertaining. Having the main character die and leave his completely helpless daughter behind would not be a satisfying conclusion. Having his son run off on a wave of immature "make 'em hurt" naivety and never be seen again is *also* not satisfying, so they had to bring him back at the end. I mean sure, sometimes people die, and it seems completely pointless and preventable, and we wonder what more we could've done... but people don't go to the movies to have that sense of hopelessness rubbed in their face. The movie needs to have some kind of point, because if we want meaningless, unpreventable horror, we can just turn on the news.

[@eseguerito2629]

29:06 Oof you completely forgot the scene where Robbie helps those people get onto the ferry, and Ray’s reaction to it. Like, “wow, my son cares about helping people and he’s compassionate” is written all over Ray’s face. Also the fact that Robbie is presented as the only one who understands Rachel and knows how to help her with her anxiety. She Certainly believes in him.

[@Gloomdrake]

And yet he just abandons her. He abandons his sister, who only he can help, with the man he likes the least. Kinda weird

[@natturallyfreeriders7545]

@@Gloomdrake Perhaps Spielberg should have included a scene where soldiers recruited people, and Robbie does it behind the scenes of his father, but I don't know if the hill scene would have worked the same way. What do you say?

[@ShirDeutch]

WOTW may be a mess, but I feel it's one of Tom Cruise's best and most unique performances. A not so young, unsuccessful man with no ambition? It's a 180 from 98.6% of his roles.

[@FailOfKing]

Unironically my favorite Tom Cruise role is him in Tropic Thunder.

[@tiawilliams5690]

That’s probably about 50% of his films. He actually has a fairly wide range of roles but gets the most press for the MI and Top Gun movies. The roles for which he received Oscar nominations (Born on the Fourth of July, Magnolia, and Jerry Maguire), are all completely different from one another.

[@heide35007]

I think his Role in Edge of Tomorrow would be a better fit for this Description.

[@glamazon6172]

Anne Rice flipped her shit when they cast Tom as Lestat. After the film came out, she took out a page in Variety (iirc) to talk about what a great job he did.

[@themadmattster9647]

Tom Cruise basically supports slavery with his Scientology and the members who work on his properties with little/no pay, but I won't lie I adore him as an actor, especially in villainous roles! He kind of channelled David Miscavige in some of those roles for sure, and even used Scientology drills in some films like Magnolia (bull baiting "im silently judging you scene")

[@rickyricardo2280]

"It is dumb as a bag of rocks and I love it" Amen, sister...

[@nickjciccone]

That tripod horn noise haunts me till this day.

[@LuciaFiero]

Just watching this video gave me PTSD. WotW is absolutely terrifying.

[@assassino1480]

@@LuciaFiero Agreed. Watching this video is probably a really bad idea.

[@GippyHappy]

I made it the ringtone to my phone in middle school

[@rollomaughfling380]

A friend of mine helped make it.

[@crowsbridge]

Did you play Mass Effect 3?

[@supermanlypunch]

I have to say, I disagree with parts of your assessment of the kids. Or at least Rachel, I find it entirely plausible that a child Rachel's age, experiencing the end of the world, might be reduced to that state. Maybe I just handle my writing differently, but I think I think it's one thing for her and Dad to think she's more capable than Mom does, and another for her to be capable of handling literal rivers of corpses at age 10. Some more dialog probably would have been good, maybe more clearly state something to the effect of "She can handle her luggage, but she can't handle watching people burn to death." but I still don't think it's a mistake to have her get traumatized into barely functioning and thus have Ray need to spend whatever focus he has in keeping her alive. Robbie though, yeah that's pretty correct. Even while he is entirely believable as a stupid teenage boy who is impotently raging at the world crashing down around his ears, his resolution does kinda peter out. Either have him mature and step up to be the family leader Ray refuses to be, or as you said have him die to make Ray realize just how utter of a failure he is.

[@drfifteenmd7561]

this movie had a happy ending for the sake of having a happy ending :))))))))

[@firelightyear]

Didn’t the actress who played this Racheal girl voiced dubbed Satsuki from My neighbor Totoro?

[@charliecharleschuck635]

@@firelightyear Dakota Fanning! And her real life sister Elle played the sister in that movie as well!

[@firelightyear]

@@charliecharleschuck635 I know.

[@anubusx]

I would love to see Jim Carrey's Riddler in Nolan's Batman.

[@th3rasave]

Into the batverse...? (It works cuz most DC elseworlds feature batman, much like how most marvel au's feature spidey)

[@JustAndre92]

Not _quite_ the same thing, but... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWi6ooGEmtWHbbs

[@JustKrin]

You have Eisenberg's Luthor in BvS, which is like Carrey's Riddler dial up to 11 in goofiness and Nolan's Batman dialed up to 11 in darkness

[@vodkatamarindo9387]

I want margot robbies harley quinn dating joaquin phoenixes joker though

[@That80sGuy1972]

I'd love to see Arnie's goofy-^ss Mr. Freeze in Nolan's Batman... or in any of the more loyal-to-comics more serious Batman mediums.

[@skutch2439]

Loved the video. Just want to add that Ray's job as a dock worker and the shot of the New York docks in the opening shot of War of the Worlds is a direct allusion to the widely circulated news stories about how international ports could be used to smuggle nuclear or biological agents into the US that were circulated in the years right after 9-11. Ports were highlighted as weak spots in US security and the perceived failings in their procedures for evaluating cargo were a topic which inspired much anxiety and media scaremongering. Their was even a subplot in the Sopranos regarding Tony's anxiety caused by this problem as he on hand required lax security to steal from New Jersey's ports, and on the other, knew that such a lax security program could endanger his country and family. Ray's irresponsible nature is likely an a manifestation of the fear at the time that untrained dock workers might leave the us vulnerable to further terrorist attacks.

[@SamAronow]

And the tightening of port security led directly to the Mexican Drug War.

[@yy-hj4br]

@@SamAronow Damn. Wow.

[@BvousBrainSystems]

Now that is a fantastic point. It's subtle enough that you absolutely could not understand it without the context of the era. From memory, isn't there something in True Lies (1994) about a nuclear bomb being sneaked into America through a port? If so, that would indicate that such a possibility was considered before but came to prominence post 9/11, which makes True Lies way ahead of its time.

[@SamAronow]

@@BvousBrainSystems It was considered, but not taken seriously. There were no enemies in the 90s. Even in Washington, Al Qaeda was written off as this silly thing the Clintons were unreasonably obsessed with. The *real* important thing was to re-start the Cold War and invigorate our sense of purpose!

[@BubblegumCrash332]

Cruise really couldn’t sell the Everyman salt of the earth type he was shooting for. It just across as Tom Cruise trying to slum it up lol.

[@xingcat]

I think one of the things that took over entirely from this is the zombie feature. The idea that the enemy is made up of people who used to be us, but were somehow "turned," often through actions they took on their own (trying to defeat the enemy, but getting infected in the process) is what speaks to our own fears these days.

[@CaptainBagman]

"trying to defeat the enemy, but getting infected in the process" AHHH

[@BobStein]

I've thought zombies are only dead metaphorically. What they resemble most are the desperate poor. Yes indeed they used to be us.

[@evilesque7073]

Excellent observation!

[@nicholastosoni707]

@@BobStein ....The desperate poor who are all too often caught up in government, corporate and/or military incompetence? (The zombie catalyst usually comes these days from some kind of research or consumer good gone horribly wrong.)

[@tamlandipper29]

I follow your argument, but I thought the idea in zombie invasion is that of the handful of individualists in a morass of dumb incomprehending aggression. The idea that modern man is a consumer and nothing else.

[@Oberon4278]

I love that they have a scene where Tom Cruise is wearing a Yankees hat and his son is wearing a Red Sox hat. Could you have a more iconic rivalry?

[@Mallen151]

‪I absolutely love how the song you use at the beginning is Tchaikovsky’s Piano Concerto #1 in B-Flat Minor which for those who don’t know, is also the opening theme to Orson Welles’ radio version of War of the World’s!‬

[@Zsnakeistaken]

I didn't know that about the Orson Welles opener. Thanks!

[@aptonymic3014]

the 2nd movement is trash.

[@notablegoat]

As a huge nerd for the original novel, the tripods in Spielberg's version were fantastic

[@sean_d]

But surely you must have a problem with the idea that they were somehow buried in the ground for ages and the occupants were inserted via the lightning somehow? That was a major deviation and seems pointless. Surely they coukd have had the tripods arrive some better way? Or is it some laboured metaphor?

[@weebsaretakingovertheworld1003]

(Well aware this is a year old comment) I am currently reading the book and I love it almost as much as the movie. I also really like Spielberg’s version of the tripods too! Very cool in a creepy sort of way

[@emjackson81989]

Edge of Tomorrow was really interesting. I never really understood why it didn't do so well in theaters.

[@ironfox4990]

emjackson81989 It was mistitled and poorly marketed.

[@mergele1000]

Iirc didn't they even change the title have way through promotion? It was a damm shame it did so poorly.

[@MegatronYES]

It was fucking brilliant

[@DarthSironos]

The marketing made it look so generic and "seen before" that I think many people (me icluded) just didn't bother. It might be a good movie, I don't know, but it just seemed so bland the way it was presented.

[@f4slasher]

Best anime adaptation?

[@weirdone6966]

The old lady laughing at congress being blown up killed me 🤣🤣🤣 and I’ve never seen that movie. Edit: this did not age well...

[@janetfairweather5883]

Oh, but you must! Jack Nicholson, Sarah Jessica Parker, Martin Short, Glenn .close, Annette Bening, Tom Jones, Pierce Brosnan, and many more cameos. Ridiculous and fun.

[@jasonrhome710]

It's trash-tastic and I sorta love it. "Ack ack! Ack ack ack!" /translator "Don't run, we come in peace..."

[@TheSpacecraftX]

Haha. Right? Congress could never actually be in any real danger, right? Ha. *anxious side-eye*

[@PerpetualJoy]

Definitely hits a little different now lol

[@LuisSierra42]

CAlled it

[@80MWH]

The "Let Go" comparison between WOTW and Nemo, reminds me of when I saw the same scene in "Man of Steel," and then in "Guardians of the Galaxy 2." - In "Man of Steel," Zod is flying the Kryptonian scout ship over Metropolis, when Superman smashes into it. In Zod's mind, the vessel contains the chance for new Kryptonian life, and he yells at Kal-El, "If you destroy this ship, you destroy Krypton!" However, in a few seconds, Kal just yells, "Krypton had it's chance," before laser-eye-blasting then ship apart. The fact that the ship even held the possibility of new life is almost lost on the audience, who have all-but-forgotten by now how Krypton birthed new life. This scene was meant to be emotional, but the way Snyder directs it, he almost makes Kal-El to be as ruthless as Zod. It's mean to be a sign that Kal has chosen his adopted homeworld over the more backwards-society of his past...but it just feels emotionless. - Then there's the scene in "Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol 2." As the explosive is about to go off and destroy Ego's world, Ego clutches at Peter Quill. "If you do this," he tells Peter, "you'll be just like everyone else!" Peter has a beat, and then responds with: "What's so bad about that?" Like Kal-El, Peter Quill has to make a decision. He is a being of two worlds, of a god-like father and a mortal mother. However, if Ego lives, he will destroy others, and shows no remorse for doing so (much like Zod). Peter at least, we've seen has a capacity for right and wrong, even if he is a jerk at times. However, unlike Kal, we've seen enough of his personality to know just who Peter is, and when he makes his decision to let the thing that is his father perish, we are totally understanding, and don't see Peter as a crazed maniac.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

Zod did nothing wrong. When Galactus came to eat Earth, Reed Richards convinced him to eat other planets instead. Richards was later put on trial by the people who lost their planets this way. Kal-El is no Reed Richards. And Richards is morally questionable. What is Superman supposed to be?

[@DW-uf5gu]

Am I the only person who thought war of the worlds was a horror movie? I was genuinely terrified and I couldn't care less about the relationship between the three main characters. I felt like I was running from the creatures with them and that was enough. It was scary and enough for me.

[@MariaVosa]

For me the movie viscerally brought home how invasion and war would appear to common civilians, the way Saving Private Ryan showed how it was for the common soldier and Schindler's List brought you into the concentrations camps. It was phenomenally effective in that regard and I tend to think of these 3 movies as Spielberg's trilogy on WW2 - even if he would not think so himself.

[@manray5140]

I was just 5 when I saw it and it sure freaked me out. I can still hear those horns blaring at me from the score and those Martian foghorns give me goosebumps.

[@gnarlestongnu637]

The original novel was definitely meant to shock and scare, and you'd have a hard time finding a film maker more adept at conveying a tone than Spielberg. Roland Emerich, on the other hand, basically just made an episode of Friends with lots of explosions.

[@DW-uf5gu]

@@MariaVosa I absolutely agree!

[@PogieJoe]

I love so much that Lindsey evaluates the media she grew up with in the same complex sociocultural way we've had to hear forever about media from the 40s-70s. (And also that she didn't mention the fake myth about outcry over Welles' War of the Worlds.)

[@MCArt25]

How is a fake myth different from a real one?

[@PogieJoe]

@@MCArt25 Well the fake story gained mythical status and the real story is not often talked about. Haha

[@simona1001]

@@brosephnoonan223 Here you go: www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/the-war-of-the-worlds-panic-was-a-myth/ TL;DR: It was a story created by newspapers as a way of discrediting radio, which was a new competitor at the time.

[@lettuceprime4922]

@@simona1001 - Oh shit. Newspapers must have fucking hated Welles lmao. He lampooned Chicago opinion magnates in Citizen Kane and literally only got bad reviews in Chicago newspapers, iirc

[@lettuceprime4922]

@@RedFloyd469 - Ye true. Willy Randolph Hearst, hated by the educated, educating the hateful how to be better at hating.

[@JoshuaWillis89]

That Randy Quaid moment where is flies into the mothership is up there with Lando exiting the exploding Death Star in terms of pure catharsis. One of the best moments in cinema.

[@BaldingClamydia]

Tom Robbins is the movies attempt at the soldier character from the book, but he's just shoehorned into the movie. The crazy soldier works in the book because he has an encounter with the narrator early into the story, so when the narrator happens onto him again, it's a delightful surprise that turns into dismay when the narrator learns the truth of the soldier's character.

[@th3rasave]

Perhaps tom robbins could've been a coworker?

[@BaldingClamydia]

@@th3rasave He could have been, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I read the book very recently. It's interesting in the book because he's inspired by the soldier's talk of beating the aliens, but the longer he spends with the man the more he realizes he's all talk. They sink into a lethargy, and I think he has to finally kill the crazy SOB to move along in the plot. It could probably work with a co-worker

[@CazMeister]

Love that we got a pseudo remake of one of your best pre-video essay videos. Next up: The Fresh Prince Is Awesome, And Here's Why?

[@TheSharbear14]

I hope this means we get another video about True Lies.

[@digamejh]

I *thought* that title was familiar!

[@firefly4f4]

Sidenote: I don't care that it bombed at the box office; "Edge of Tomorrow" is awesome.

[@pocok5000]

it's still getting a sequel.

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

I agree

[@mmorris404]

This is a fact.

[@mckennaConfig]

Hasn't it grown in popularity since release? People have recognized how it is a good film after it busted in theaters. They even officially changed the name.

[@H0lyMoley]

Yeah, it's really great. My favorite film of that year.

[@annabelb5622]

I really do wonder how the covid pandemic is going to affect popular culture. I wonder if we'll be able to see it in real time, or if we'll have to wait 10 years to really analyze the effect on the cultural ecosystem?

[@Lultschful]

We'll probably have to wait. If your face is one inch from a huge painting, you don't really see the picture. You have to step back to embrace it globally. That's what time does to cultural and societal events.

[@moscanaveia]

One thing I've noticed. I watch movies now, nearly one year intoa quarantine, and I find it strange seeing people strutting about, masks off

[@nanahuatli2144]

At least in this case it'll be something everyone can empathize with, rather than just one country. But I do think it's going to change contagion movies.

[@gamer-px5cu]

Covid pandemic is an artificial situation created in order to reduce and keep human race into fear and ignorance. In order to make us slaves.

[@nanahuatli2144]

@@gamer-px5cu By whom?

[@LaLloronaVT]

I feel like the basement part was done strictly for consistency with the book but the book had plenty of time to work it out while the movie just doesn't

[@EvripidouM]

I see how it slows down the movie, but I appreciate that they included it

[@kedabro1957]

@@EvripidouM And it debunks the average survivalist's ability to function in the broken world they're hoping for.

[@NickMcKeel]

This comparison is amazing. I was about Robbie's age on 9/11, so I grew up in goofy 90s culture, and have since grown old in these darker times. It's a heart-wrenchingly prescient analysis. Thank you so much, Lindsay!

[@CZ-dg7te]

"It is dumb as a bag of rocks and one of my favorite movies. I love it." Best quote ever. I love that no matter how critical and thoughtful her analyses are, there is room for an I like it because I like it, attitude. Too often in youtube or general media commentary people get too caught up in analysis and whatever "lens" they're viewing the movie, or make hate on it videos for views, that they can't just enjoy something shamelessly. I want to scream at those people like the Gladiator "Are you not entertained?!" Great video as always Lindsay. No shame in liking something "dumb". I might eat healthy on the regular but let's be honest cookies are better than veggies, I feel the same way about some movies and books, there's always some "junk food" favorites.

[@duffman18]

That's why I love moviebob's "Really That Good" series, as it makes arguments that sometimes you can't just go "oh it's just a dumb action film, it must in truth be shite" but actually they're really well made films and it's OK to love them and not just be a cynical arsehole all the time. Like his video on Independence Day itself is fantastic and also show why it was quite progressive for the time.

[@PauLtus_B]

What mostly bothers me is that a lot of people want to judge a film in way that would be above our emotional, which doesn't make much sense. I'm a big fan of Film Critic Hulk who often talks about how stories should be functional, but not in a literal sense but in an emotional sense.

[@PauLtus_B]

Y'know: dumb stuff can be done well. It's neither necessarily a reason to call a film bad, nor an excuse to ignore bad stuff.

[@taliamason7986]

Its a lot more than just dumb as rocks though. Not only that, it has aged very badly as well. If you really want to understand from a critical perspective as to why its widely considered bad by most critics, just watch Red Letter Media's Re-View of it. As Mike and Jay usually do, they both brilliantly summed up just how garbage it is and how how much a hack Speilberg wannabe Roland Emmerich has always tried so painfully hard to be as a filmmaker. Most important of all this film ushered in a whole era of bad, lazy and insulting screen writing to come after it in most of the big Summer blockbusters each year. The only reason it was ever considered good back then is a) good realistic special effects and b) absolute fuck all for quality and variety in blockbusters throughout the late 90's which was easily the weakest and darkest period in the history of Hollywood Cinema and it painfully lasted about a decade up until 2004 which finally ended it.

[@irrelevantperson785]

War of the Worlds 2020: The aliens die from Covid-19

[@mitchh3092]

The final shot pans out to Kang and Kodos observing from orbit, wearing masks under their helmets. "THE FOOLS! WE WARNED THEM IT WASN'T A HOAX!"

[@nanahuatli2144]

Actually the aliens realize the humans are all about to die of COVID-19 and peace out for a couple years at the end, to come back when the situation has resolved itself without any more loss of life on their part.

[@Draeckon]

@@nanahuatli2144 or they swoop in when we're on the verge of extinction and either/or: A.) Keep the past remnants of humanity as pets or subjects of study, to be demeaned and debased as little more than animals B.) Act as the saviors we ourselves were incapable of being, finding a solution and saving the last of mankind who will have to live with the knowledge that we were utterly helpless and powerless on our own. In either case, it could lead to some interesting outcomes, both on the human side and the alien side. Or they could just swoop in and kill the last remnants themselves for fun.

[@nathanmiller8213]

@@Draeckon isn't the end of option B kinda like Childhood's End? At least before the last act

[@aria5614]

Robbie probably should have met Tim Robin's, seeing how crazy he is and maturing as a result.

[@bpansky]

that...could have made the movie so much better!

[@Got-Raider-Camus]

That makes a lot of sense. Making Robbie and Tom both stop him as he went nuts. They had to cross that line but for the family. Making Robbie step into adulthood and showing him war and death is something hard to do and live with.

[@shadenox8164]

I could see the perfect moment too, Robin's crazy plan places Robbie's sister at risk, she barely manages to save herself (showing that she indeed does have the bag) and Robbie is naturally incensed about the whole thing and sees how recklessness puts others besides himself at risk and frankly that's more of a becoming a man moment then stupidly running towards explosions.

[@LorenzoDoesntExist]

Please do a crossover between your 9/11 series and your Transformers series talking about how Michael Bay is obsessed with 9/11 imagery.

[@jcharpak]

Call it fractured plate...

[@bfish89ryuhayabusa]

9/11 Ruins the Whole Plate

[@rgoodwyn]

@@jcharpak nice! I was gonna go with The Whole Flag

[@zillafire101]

@@bfish89ryuhayabusa 9/11 eats the whole plane.

[@Kathy_Loves_Physics]

I remember when the Independence Day trailer came out and my best friend went to movies just to see that trailer! “They blew up New York” woo hoo. She loved that part. And then ... yep. Destroying cities was not as much fun.

[@aimeemariet]

I think this might be why Roland Emmerich stuck to destroying places in ways that absolutely could not physically happen for awhile there. Which is great because now we have the "running from the cold" scene in The Day After Tomorrow to laugh about.

[@FoggyMcFogFace]

The Day After Tomorrow is one of the best comedies ever made. 'The temperature is falling with 10 degrees per second!' they said, as everything stopped moving because we've already reached absolute zero

[@ThexDynastxQueen]

Thinning the Fog:....And then the wolves showed up.

[@thunderphoenix440]

@@ThexDynastxQueen I remember I watched that movie twice in theaters, and I walked out the second time when the wolves happened.

[@nak3dxsnake]

What?

[@Yepmyaccount]

35:30 "We culturally stared down an event and were incapable of adequately resolving." 2020 happens: Turns out humans will probably be incapable of resolving any sort of apocalyptic level scenario on their own.

[@itsvanya]

"It is dumb as a bag of rocks and it is one of my favourite movies. I love it" Omg SAME

[@Kiss_My_Aspergers]

That's EXACTLY how I feel about "The Core".

[@cluckendip]

@@Kiss_My_Aspergers Lol I flicked through the TV one day and saw the movie half-way through to the end, it was still corny but pretty good haha

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

The Amazing Bulk is dumber

[@badfem]

Basically lol, I think that's how we all feel about it.

[@iagmusicandflying]

@@Kiss_My_Aspergers "The Core" is a stupid movie, but you've got to give props to the people who made it who knew they were making a stupid movie and winked at us. "Unobtainium". :)

[@jmalmsten]

Ok, now I have the idea of Ray punching Robbie to get him out of the battlezone and Robbie growing really recentful and puts the family into increasingly high risks until Ray, the father, has to kill his son to save his daughter... he then has to face his estranged wife, knowing the actions he had to take to get at least the daughter there.. Now THAT would have been a f****d up ending!

[@nosuchthingasshould4175]

Would be good

[@S1nwar]

ok but if audiences at the time were pissed at the movie for something as simple as not satisfying revenge fantasies against the aliens how much more negative would your ending have been received

[@jmalmsten]

@@S1nwar yeah, I do not doubt that my ending would have doomed the film into abyssmal box office failure. I just thought it would have been an interesting f****d up way to tell the story that still was somewhat within the tone of the first half. Going for more of a The Mist paralyzing ending than the somewhat forced sugarcoated version we got. The better ending is probably somewhere between those two extremes.

[@TragoudistrosMPH]

I would have relished your film!

[@stevenirizarry1304]

A cult classic film with awful box office...that is what your ending would have made. Which is kind of better than a safe box office hit

[@adamdominguez656]

I was 11 years old when 9/11 happened, 15 for War of the Worlds. Saw it with my dad in theaters. I will never forget this movie nor the experience I had of connecting with my father through this movie in some really meta art way. I was Robbie. Ray was my dad. I actually do have one little sister. I wanted to be a soldier because of 9/11 and my father always pleaded against it. I appreciated the end of their story arcs.

[@nathanvalle6997]

Was about a year older when everything happened. I remember a lot of Robbies. It didn't help that Halo and a bunch of other first person shooters dominated video games at that time either.

[@kirbyjoe7484]

@@nathanvalle6997 I think we all knew at least a few Robbies. One of the ones I know no longer has any legs and another is a mentally ill shell of his former self. Not all of the Robbies were lucky enough to come back in one piece and get a happy ending.

[@bgiuliano68]

@@kirbyjoe7484 Not all the Robbies came back at all.

[@PlatformNo14]

@@nathanvalle6997 you must misunderstand the plot of halo

[@SantaFishes101]

@@PlatformNo14 neither did the robbies :P

[@hgxnorton1986]

War of the Worlds (specifically the 2005 adaptation) just fills me with such dread that it is just perfect for me, the other versions are usually just interesting as a story, but the Spielberg film just nails the atmosphere for me.

[@thedrzoidberg4559]

Are humans monsters or aren't they? I think a good rationale for Spielberg's inconsistency is that humans are just that, inconsistent. For every real-life heartwarming story of human compassion and kindness there is an equal and opposite story of humans being irredeemable monsters to one another. If Spielberg's portrayal of humans in a time of crisis is inconsistent, it's because humans ourselves are inconsistent too. Nothing is more human than our behavior being irrational and chaotic under extreme stress. Just a thought.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

A very important thought.

[@lawriedower2531]

See some of the director's other work (e.g. Schindler's List ) for other inconclusive answers to 'are humans monsters?'.

[@anjadoon]

Especially in the context of the scene where the tripod is blown up with grenades I don't think it is an inconsistency. The movie shows humans fighting amongst each other for say a car or a gun because they think it might increase their chances of survival; when they are trapped and just waiting to be liquified by the invaders they might as well work together

[@petercarioscia9189]

I think humans are complicated and it isn't necessarily an issue for Spielberg to show humans in disaster situations as both monsters and then cooperating.

[@TheBahamaat]

I think the issue is that for 2/3rd of the movie humans are monsters, and then, in the final act, they suddenly aren't. Had there been more nuance in the beginning, and more than just Tim Robbins at the end, that idea that "we're a mix of good and bad" would have worked better.

[@artyoxenfree]

I was confused but ready to sit through a video of the Prussian wars...

[@r.j.macready]

As a professional historian, after hearing you chalk up the German victory in the Franco-Prussian War to Germans "superior strength in numbers" I am triggered. However I realize this is not super important to the thrust of your video essay, amazing content. Absolutely loved hearing the origins of the invasion narrative as ever I love it and will share it with my students.

[@DaDunge]

Well it kind of was that, Germany mobilised they got their armies to the field when the french armies were still in their barracks or even worse still back home. Germany didn't have greater strength in numbers over all but they did have greater strengthen in number on the field.

[@ericspencer8093]

@@DaDunge What you mean, is they had superior planning and organization. France slept or partied supreme in their arrogance, while the Germans got it done.

[@thebossmana]

No. The French were unprepared and had awful battlefield tactics they actually outnumbered the Prussians in most battles.

[@voxdraconia4035]

Actually it is kind of worth mentioning that Germany was also using way more advanced tech. Better Rifles and especially artillery shell shocked the french troops. And that is quite a connection to alien invasions that usually win by advanced tech

[@Tareltonlives]

Well, better use of modern technology (the French had pretty sophisticated weapons themselves, in some ways better than the Germans, but failed to deploy or use them in intelligent ways) and a far better officer corps (The Prussians were the best in Europe, fresh from beating up Austria, while the staff system in the French Army was total shit and there was a ton of political infighting)

[@joshkaid]

Randy Quaid sacrificing himself to save humanity is literally one of my favorite things in cinema ever.

[@marissach]

This video was very interesting and well done. It also had me reconsidering the the recent wave of 90s nostalgia. I was in elementary school when Independence Day came out, early high school during 9/11 and early college for War of the Worlds. Post 9/11, I had a feeling of being so far away from the 90s despite only being a few years out. Looking back now , it's much easier to see the change in tone between the two decades. There's something to be said for Dumb-as-rocks campy cheesy 90s fun.

[@Melissa-wx4lu]

@@bloodbornetoilet I've always considered the first few years of the new decade to be a hangover from the decade before.90, 91, and 92 were basically still the 80's. While 2000, and 01 were pretty much still the 90's And yes, after 9/11 things changes. I was in middle of high school. So I noticed it instantly. the Media played the shit out of those first few hours for weeks. People were tired of seeing destruction and fear and for sure were not going to so see a movie about that very thing. We basically wandered through the next 12 months in a bit of a fog.

[@Abshir1it1is]

"The Nineties had a very different, shall we say, mouth feel." - Lindsay, 2019 Quote of the century, folks.

[@kael13]

Agent J ohhhhhh Monica Lewinski!

[@wschippr1]

Agent J Why isn't anyone talking about the mouthfeel?

[@Yahkov]

5:41 "It is dumb as a bag of rocks and it is one of my favorite movies. I love it" I couldn't agree more! This video is so good. Keep up the great work!

[@TanstheMan117]

This is one of my all time favorite video essays on KZbin. Not sure if you still read these, but thank you for all the content Lindsay. Some of the most poignant and thoughtful looks into the cultural zeitgeist on the internet. Hope to see you here again one day. I will continue to come back and watch until then.

[@KlingonCaptain]

It should have ended like the book. In the book the book the main character is so defeated that he attempts suicide only to fail because the alien he reveals himself to is sick.

[@worldofthought8352]

I thought the book ended when he met he was reunited with his wife after thinking she had died? Similir to the 2005 ending.

[@KOTEBANAROT]

and the difference is?...

[@KlingonCaptain]

@@worldofthought8352 Yes that was in the epilogue after the primary story had already reached it's climax. He was a john doe in the hospital when she found him If I remember.

[@worldofthought8352]

@@KlingonCaptain Thanks for clearing up on that, I had time (well time off computer whilst working to be exact) I think you're suggestion would had delivered more of a impact and reveal as opposed to the film where it was birds on tripod=no shields. I felt that spectacle was underwhelming. Though at the same time I can only see the suggestion you made being effective only be making changes to the film (such as removing cruise saving his kid and even blowing a tripod up) Given there were still exploits of hope and wasn't entirely a downward spiral of inevitable.

[@dakotab.7244]

also, I just watched Arrival for the first time and while I have not seen Independence Day and have only read War of the Worlds, I think Arrival speaks to the climate of the late 2010s, of the desire for communication and commonality and how it's opposed by violent xenophobia. I found it incredibly compelling and I really appreciated the emphasis on understanding and finding that common ground rather than how best to defeat the Alien Bad Guys - in fact going so far as to condemn such a mindset.

[@jimbrody4945]

That said, it’s an American film that portrays China as the warmongers.

[@lauroralei]

@@jimbrody4945 true..ish? China certainly mobilised and armed themselves early, but as I read it the Chinese general also mastered the language slightly ahead of (or at least concurrent with) Louise, hence their specific encounter in the future where he seemed to quite deliberately feed her information she'd need in the present. Anyway, I have an incredible love for Arrival. It totally doubles down on the emotional turmoil of the characters, far more about the internal devastations and exultations than overt explodey action pieces. Fantastic movie.

[@dakotab.7244]

@@lauroralei those were basically my thoughts too. I think it should also be noted that the general was willing to listen to Louise's case and change his mind as long as SHE was willing to communicate with him in his own language, something the Americans continually failed to do throughout the movie.

[@imaytag]

I loved Independence day as a kid. I spend one summer watching it virtually every single day! When I watched War of the Worlds I found it bluntly horrifying in kind of a satisfying way. When it was over I remember commenting to whoever I was watching it with that I felt like I had just been through a traumatic experience. Man how I wish that the second half was better because the first half blew me away. Anyways, nothing to add to the conversation, just felt like saying a few words about some movies that I also kind of loved.

[@frylock97]

I don't know if you still check these comments but I wanted to make something known; I know you left youtube for sometime for your own mental health due to a backlash from several outside sources. I wanted to make sure you knew that your essays and videos are still some of the best that have ever been produced. They where a huge influence on me and I believe have helped make me a better critic and a better artist. I love these videos and want you know for every short sighted bully there are those of us who love your work and hope some day for more.

[@TheTyper]

(people tell Lindsay Ellis not to use KZbin Premier options that went over pretty smoothly it seems) Lindsay: BUT WHAT IF

[@ernststravoblofeld]

I hate the premiere thing, but I'm at peace with it not going away.

[@AquaLantern]

“So... are humans monsters or aren’t they?” It’s almost like people are complex and can’t be simplified or generalized into a single category, with different people acting differently even in the same circumstance.

[@FelipeCH-fn7sc]

Right right. Human complexity not always works for Themes and Character Arcs.

[@madz2013]

The amount of research and care you put into each of your videos is simply amazing and you deserve waaaay more viewers

[@corey2232]

I can't wait to see your next ongoing series, "The Pandemic Ruined Everything."

[@alopiaspelagicus1628]

I'd LOVE your take on Rogue One, because it's such a shift from the usual "overpowered individuals face off overpowered villains and no one dies", and shows the sacrifices that 'normal' people have to make for the sake of hope and freedom.

[@benjaminlyall7108]

Yesss

[@AcidPhoenix13]

Except the overpowered individuals ALL die in the end because they are killed off by the overpowered villains lmaooo

[@MrImastinker]

Best Star Wars film of the current era. Friggin' love Rogue One.

[@leadvendor]

The Martians curiously toying with the bicycle is so damn cute.

[@wolfbyte3171]

I believe it's because on their planet (never really specified as Mars in the film) they skipped inventing the wheel, and went to mechanical legs, hence the tripods. So it was a new concept to them.

[@teamninjabug8287]

I know that scene gets a lot of flack, but I too like it. They're cute, yes, but I also appreciate the nod the scene makes towards the original book. In the novel, the martians were stated to have never invented the wheel, so having them express curiosity towards the bicycle's wheel seems fitting to me! :D

[@ludiprice]

"It is dumb as a bag of rocks and it is one of my favourite movies". Glad I'm not the only one on this planet who appreciates the magnificent mess that is Independence Day

[@lassesipila6418]

21:50 With no change in circumstance? People on the ground are fighting each other for scarce resources (a functioning car) to get away from the danger, while people in the tripod baskets are already trapped inside the danger and can only unite to fight back, there's nothing to fight each other for.

[@Pluveus]

Does anyone else have the feeling that the screen writers originally had it written that the son dies and then Spielberg was said, "No! All children must survive and reunite with their father figures. It's in my contract." and then the writers where just at a loss for what to do.

[@timy9197]

That sounds possible

[@TheImpossiBelle]

Not unheard of for films to drastically change an ending because of test-audience reactions.

[@blondbraid7986]

My thoughts exactly, the boy's re-appearance was too sudden and out of nowhere for any other explanation to feel logical.

[@davidvondoom2853]

I dunno… It kind of fits in with the whole, "dumb luck that they survived" vibe. Humanity almost got wiped out, but they avoided extermination, because they got lucky and a virus took down the aliens. Robby should have died too, but somehow gets lucky and survives. I think it was meant to be a grim ending where you are left feeling, "holy shit, that could have gone a lot worse! If ''X'' hadn't happened, what would they have done to get out of this?" Ray, wasn't able to save his son, but life tosses him a freebie and he gets to keep the son he should have lost. He failed and he knows it, but he gets his son back and there is relief from his guilt. So, I don't think they were looking for a ''feel good'' ending, but an ending that gave you the sense of relief that a survivor feels, after they make through a disaster and wonder how they even managed it. It is an ending devoid of ego or heroes, just survival. The character growth isn't from changing and overcoming something, it's from failing and realizing that they failed, but were fortunate to be spared the consequences. They are lucky and they at least know it.

[@Wrest2165]

On macho boys . 2 days post 9-11, and i saw very little traffic still. classes were still cancelled at my community college. I was not afraid because i bleived that as horrific as those events were, they were done, for now. But there was a huge "revenge element" . I live in a very diverse city, but i remember seeing people in pickups driving around with "Dont tread on me" snake flags, i remember 2 "Muslim " (actually Sook, a subset of East Indian culture) being attacked at their gas station that they owned, and the extreme tense-situation that never REALLY faded till 2006 when people were calling for the end to the Iraq war. I will never forget though, thinking that , were those guys in the pickup truck going to suddenly fly and stop the next airline plane from crashing? Did they feel they were doing something? Perhaps i was still in shock and not comprehending the full scale of what had happened. But as Lindsay says...."9-11 kinda ruined....everything"

[@SonofSethoitae]

Sikh*

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

LOL I was one of those, when it hit, thinking inside job. Asked a friend to pick me up. Watched the news all day and I recorded on VHS the people cheering as the World Trade Center, the symbol of American capitalism, fell. Approximately 2 day later. Me: So what are we going to fight for this time? I need a reason, any will do. Him: Oil. Me: Alright. Lotta people didn't care and didn't want war. Some were happy to see capitalism fail. Almost none gave enough fucks to push back against the machine. I still remember the Chappelle bit about the Dixie Chicks.

[@timbeaton5045]

@array s Which might have been the point?

[@jackawaka]

"I guess these guys have mouths.. So they can go 'bleeh'". Made me laugh so much

[@bluey7520]

Same here, genuinely got a noise complaint from my housemate for the chuckle. Thanks for putting a smile on me.

[@eddakat]

The Guy Who Didn’t Like Musicals has the best invasion narrative you cannot change my mind

[@dumbledalfthewizard9486]

Hell yeah

[@PhantasmalBlast]

It is scary... If you think of the implications. Promise me you'll think about the implications!

[@justaninnocentpomegranate3702]

YES

[@edwardgurney1694]

Whatever else you might say about the 2005 movie, it has the best tripods of any adaptation so far. I always thought the Jeff Wayne ones looked stiff and awkward, with no sense of movement.

[@arianebarnes]

"War of the Worlds" is Stephen Spielberg undoing the plot to "Close Encounters of the Third Kind". Over the years since making that movie, Spielberg disliked how it ended. When Spielberg made Close Encounters, he was single and had no kids. As Spielberg started to raise his own family he had a problem with the way the main character abandons his family to go aboard an alien space ship. "War of the Worlds" did the opposite, the family man does whatever it takes to save his family. Tim Robbins in War seems to have the same delusions as Dreyfus in CE, but the films have us treat the characters differently. (source: Close Encounters directors cut DVD commentary).

[@adiahaalexander9359]

I'm so glad I came across your comment. I grew up with Close Encounters and loved it. But as an adult, not saying I don't still like it, my perspective has changed. And him abandoning his family at the end is kinda sad. I didn't know Spielberg has regretted that ending.

[@Firegen1]

28:54 - Got a thought on how they could have fixed Robbie. Double down on his want to break free and make him have a slightly fantastical view of the military. Then the destruction happens he thinks "aww yeah!" And keeps wanting to run off and fight. He finally dashes off to "help" out and leaves the family unit. Cruise tries to get him back but can't because of explosion or some action filmy thing. Failed dad feeling, one kid focus like the current screenplay. Film continues, but we jump back to Robbie once during a different part of the invasion and the boy sees that the destruction is bigger then he anticipated. We also resolve the concern on humanity good/humanity bad plot point by having Robbie's set of survivors help each other while Cruise's don't. Robbie's group gets attacked, we see the "oh no... I'm screwed face" from Robbie and we are left thinking he is dust while the film keeps going. At the end we get family resolution but the boy has grown somewhat. He won't say what he saw but he is covered in dust, cuts and blood so we can probably take a good guess. He still wants to be a soldier but for the right reasons. They hug. Something something... Fin.

[@Caio0_057]

I really like War of the Worlds, the Spielberg film, mostly for Spielbergs masterful tensionbuilding and direction. So I have kind of found an explanation for the thematic dissonance talked about in this video. As people steal Rey's car and rip the family apart and fight for a space on the boat like a bunch of rats, the threat is near, but it's not as present, they are not seeing a person literally being eaten, they only know that something terrible is coming and that they have to flee from this almost abstract terror. In the Tripod, as Rey is being taken by the weird tongue arm thing, he not only has a daughter, but he is also definitely going to die. The threat to human life, if the own or someone else's is near, and I think there, people's empathy kicks in, when the danger to another person's life is right in front of you and not just a possibility, people work together again, ain only through an instinct to save their own kind. Idk if that was ever intended, but that's how I have chosen to explain it to myself.