The Evidence that Trelane Was a Q

Let's discuss if Trelane was a Q
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[@JoseyWales44s]

A friend of mine met William Campbell (Trelane) in Monterey, CA when Campbell was in the area for his brother's funeral. Although forgetting his name, my friend told him he recognized him as Trelane. He said Campbell was both surprised to be recognized and extremely pleased; actually breaking into the Trelane character during the conversation.

[@sonyasandoval1477]

I had a friend who knew William Campbell personally and was able to get me an autographed picture of him as Trelane.

[@roeburnposse1662]

He also played the Klingon captain in The Trouble with Trebles episode

[@JoseyWales44s]

@@roeburnposse1662 I believe he was supposed to be a recurring antagonist for Kirk, but it never panned out.

[@COMALiteJ]

CSB!

[@koba1556]

He also played a Klingon

[@douglasnieblas74]

The Q having children was not established in Voyager, but in TNG in the episode of the young girl with magical powers who turned out to be a Q because her parents left the continuum and conceived her sexually. So the Q are able to have offspring in different ways.

[@WiGgYof09]

It also pretty much cements the idea that the Q's powers are biological.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

@@WiGgYof09 Or that the means they use to access the tech is biological at least

[@GameHammerCG]

@@MatthewCaunsfield Absolutrly. The fact is we don’t know enough about the Q to say how their powers work (and maybe that’s for the best).

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

@@GameHammerCG Absolutely and I hope it stays that way! 👍

[@emilflognoid1532]

I’m disappointed in you Douglas! The “girl” of which you speak was played by Olivia D’Abo! Big sister of Kevin from wonder years... hot chick from Greedy with Micheal jfox... one of the top 10 hottest girls of the nineties! Google before you comment in the future Douglas!!!

[@ladyjatheist2763]

If Trelane wasn't a Q, he was most certainly the inspiration for them.

[@Skelly5962]

It's about time somebody said this. Thank you.

[@brianjlevine]

@@Skelly5962 John De Lancie has said this himself.

[@lukewarmwater6412]

agreed, it seems obvious.

[@ladyjatheist2763]

@@brianjlevine Oddly enough I met both Bill Campbell and John DeLancie on a Star Trek cruise back in the 90's. Both quite lovely men.

[@halfigliulo1019]

Not so obvious. The organians would be a better pick. The metrons. The thasians. Trelane required machines similar to the creatures in cats paw.

[@manofsan]

Clearly Q was modeled after Trelaine, if nothing else. You could certainly see it in their personalities.

[@neutrino78x]

I was going to say this....somebody should ask John DeLancie if he based his portrayal of the character on this episode :)

[@HighmageDerin]

@@neutrino78x I believe in an interview John Delancey did say he took a lot of his inspiration for Q from trelaine

[@ehsnils]

The personalities are quite similar and the differences are more that Delanceys Q is more cynical and somewhat more refined.

[@manofsan]

@@ehsnils - DeLancey's Q is not quite as child-like, and perhaps a little more haughty or condescending.

[@scottk3292]

It is true that Trelaine's reaction to the duel was almost a childlike "what game shall we play next? Oh, marvelous idea!" Q was more than refined though, more than cynical. Perhaps it was how inapproachable he was, and maybe it's due to the awkwardness of the pilot episode, but do others agree that the writing made him really stuffy?

[@JoseMolina-ij3xx]

In the books, Trelane is considered a part of the Q. In the canon series, it was never fully explained or even denied. But one could say that Trelane may have influenced Roddenberry to use him as a template for the Q.

[@kevinwebster7868]

The books are garbage. All of them.

[@trekker683]

His device could be the Q equivalent of training wheels

[@landonletterman831]

I like to think that Trelawny is Q as a kid. By Q standards, even by human time, he's only late twenty's early thirties, and he never quite got over his fascination with humans that he developed in his "play room" on that planet

[@meediamongergamemodder2302]

@@landonletterman831 that could b true they age at the speed of light plus q never grew up hes still n insufferable manchild but hey what q aint😂

[@josephperkins4080]

@@landonletterman831 i agree

[@cheffdonty]

We see a young girl Q in TNG (can't remember the episode) who doesn't use any sort of technology. So I'm not too sure

[@retluoc]

Bingo...during the Q civil war, my character highjacked the source of the Q's power and fixed all the supernovas they caused. He then destroyed all the weapons they were using because they were his fault. He then gave the power back to Q because of how much he grew...especially after his encounter with the Q he helped commit suicide.

[@NieR.Amanda]

The "mirror device" may have been a spur of the moment creative piece of subterfuge so Trelaine could continue playing his game and let the humans believe they had outmanouvered him. So it was just smoke and mirrors.

[@drlong08]

Dang, I see what you did there! Quite clever!! Quite!

[@noanswer1864]

I agree. The Q appear to have rules on how they are allowed to interact with "lesser" species. We don't have a clear idea of what these rules are, but we see them hunted down and punished by others of their kind for breaking them. Perhaps Trelaine was adhering to these rules by allowing the Enterprise crew to believe they had discovered the source of his power. I would imagine that protecting the true source of their abilities, and the very nature of their being is what the Q have those mysterious rules for. Don't disrupt the little bugs too much, and don't ever let the little bugs get even a centimeter closer to becoming like us.

[@RealMatthewWalker]

The Q continuum manifest itself in Strange ways. It could’ve been a psychic block from his parents. The Q civil War took the form of the American Civil War in a book. Tralane might’ve been the son of our Q even Q said he had a hard time raising his son Q after his wife Q left him.

[@martykarr7058]

Or perhaps the device was needed because as a safety mechanism, the young of the Continuum cannot tap the full power until some form of puberty. Trelane figures out how to build the mirror device to tap into it.

[@michaelpickard8779]

More evidence is stayed in the Voyager episode 'Death Wish': "You mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to lifeforms without your technological expertise! It's no different with us; we may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not!"

[@kelvyquayo]

The problem is.. it’s a logical impossibility to have 2 omnipotent beings. Think about it. “It’s hard working in groups when your omnipotent” is quite a profound statement made by Q.

[@MgtowRubicon]

That is another way of saying: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Clarke's Third Law, "Hazards of Prophecy: The Failure of Imagination" (1973) by Arthur C. Clarke

[@joedumas3362]

@@MgtowRubicon Don't forget the inverse of Clarke's 3rd law mentioned by the 7th Doctor in Battlefield. "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

[@TNTITAN]

@@joedumas3362 I also liked the White Wolf RPG system that had the subversion that technology is magic. Programs are simply spells.

[@Aliandrin]

@@kelvyquayo The single omnipotent being is the great device owned by the Q Continuum. The one the Q don't want you to know about, which is why nobody is allowed to see the Continuum as it is because "you wouldn't understand".

[@js3599]

The notion of Q (and Trelane) using technology reminds me of the Next Generation episode "Devil's Due", in which Picard had to prove that "Ardra" was not a god returned to take over the world... Turned out she had a cloaked ship near by, and was using her eye movement to control her "magic".

[@DeathBYDesign666]

If so it's definitely a vastly more advanced technology considering they are capable of creating pocket dimensions, moving almost anywhere instantly and even controlling the very fabric of space and time itself. They must be at a type 3 or even type 4 on the Kardeshev scale. The feats are definitely far beyond Ardra's capabilities by a long shot. At that point does it even matter if their abilities are natural or technological?

[@josefu_velen]

There's also the adage from Arthur C. Clark, "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[@StormDatIsApproaching]

Or "Who watches the watcher" where the proto Vulcans accidentally mistake Picard for a God and he has to use the same argument to explain that they're just more advanced

[@js3599]

@@StormDatIsApproaching Very true. He did have that problem with the Mintaukins.

[@chaoticcanyon2081]

Doctor Crusher even posed the question that Ardra could be Q.

[@nickm9102]

This concept was already addressed in the TNG books. Trelane was a child Q that hadn't learned to focus his powers correctly yet and that was the reason for the tech. Now if you look at the Voyager arc that produced a new Q there is the potential argument that they are the same. He went off and played with Kirk, got in trouble and that is why Q took the kid to Auntie Kathy. The Idea of Trelane being an older military officer was taken from a story Q had told the child about one of his early encounters with Picard.

[@RJL738]

Trelane is kinda like John De Lancie saying "You fool, this isn't even my final form."

[@3ggh3ad]

im pretty Sure John De Lancie admitted he based his performance of Q on Trelane and i think in the same interview he liked to think trelane was an immature Q

[@Elyseon]

@@3ggh3ad Immature Q? Bit of a redundancy.

[@COMALiteJ]

@@3ggh3ad See the novel _Q Squared_ by Peter David.

[@jiyu9694]

@@3ggh3ad Someone else in another thread of this discussion said they saw an interview where DeLancie denied basing his performance on Trelane. Reportedly, DeLancie said he wasn't a TOS fan before he played the role and didn't follow the series, so he had never heard of Trelane before performing the role. Who knows which story is true?

[@Arvandor81]

Also remember at the end of the second Q episode, where he tried and failed to tempt Riker, and elder Q reprimanded Q and dragged him away in a scene VERY similar to the way Trelane was dragged away.

[@Me-qp8vz]

Lazy writung ans stolen ideas explain that.

[@Zodroo_Tint]

@@Me-qp8vz That is basically Star Trek.

[@hyperion4523]

@@Me-qp8vz Same writers from TOS

[@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785]

Well...at least they did their homework..... sometimes. Occasionally.... rarely... I'm referring to the writers of both TOS and TNG frequently ignoring what was canon at that point and rewriting the rules in nearly every episode. None of that stopped me from watching either series or subsequent series... I have been, and always will be a Trekkie.

[@PeaceCommando]

This possibility was thoroughly explored in a Star Trek novel called "Q Squared", where TNG's Picard met Tremaine with Q's help. It was a fabulous novel, and the only Star Trek book I ever purchased. I recommend this book to any curious reader.

[@timcollum5015]

so tell us? yes or no? we all hate books now lol. unless yr sub-Q lmao

[@markfuston2714]

Oh man, I forgot about that book, I loved the Q trilogy that involved the galactic barrier, I need to check this one out too.

[@josephgregorowicz5135]

I don’t read much, but I admit owning and reading this. So yes, it is more than possible for Trelaine to be a Q. And as far as the parents go, you need to put into perspective the fact we are dealing with immortals. Trelaine was mistaken for a man due to him looking like an adult. His actions showed he was just a child. But what is a child, or rather, how long in terms of linear time is “childhood” for the Q? Trelaine could have been the last Q to be born, and still that event could have happened billions of years ago. Someone who’s age is beyond reason in our eyes, yet is a drop in the bucket for an immortal. Those that are immortal or have obscenely long life spans tend to have a different perception of time, where the time between now and the expansion of our Sun into a red giant would be the equivalent of taking a long nap or eating a meal and watching the evening news. Time is perceived differently to them. I think a good example of this perception would be the TNG episode where Data tests the myth “A watched pot never boils.” Of course the timer will produce the same result every time. Turn the timer off and let natural perception take over, and even if to a timer the result is the same, to you, it happened much faster.

[@OneWheelProductionsInc]

I was wondering if someone brought up Q-Squared. The audio-book read by John Delance was incredible.

[@buff6637]

Read it! Yes!

[@lawdeenamroh1556]

Trelaine is explained as being the child that was born to John Delancie's Q in the Voyager episodes, acting out during his rebellious period, this was in a star trek novel I read, ( I can't remember the name of it), where Trelaine explains all of that while he's sending the multi-iverse in to utter chaos a an act rebellion against the continuum. He chose the name Trelaine because he wanted to express his individuality and separate himself from the continuum.

[@summer20105707]

Ah but you said I could be a general. You said I could. You promised. LOL

[@jiyu9694]

Not at all possible. We were actually shown Trelane's parents at the end of that episode of TOS (The Squire of Gothos). They were NOTHING like the Q in general, and were certainly not the specific Q we know. They looked and acted a lot like the Organians, who could hardly be more different than the Q.

[@mechakid]

@@jiyu9694 The issue with your argument is that Q are omni-potent. As such, they can chose to look however they want, and do not need to actually present a humanoid form. Typically the Q do so just to make it easier for those they interact with to understand them, but there is no reason they couldn't be a glowing ball of energy if they wanted.

[@jiyu9694]

@@mechakid That is certainly possible, but there is no evidence to that effect. The issue with your argument is that the Q have NEVER appeared as a "glowing ball of energy," while Trelane's parents ONLY appeared that way, and the Organians also appeared that way when they showed their true noncorporeal forms (and they SAID that was their true form). The Q are completely different in character, attitude and behavior than Trelane's parents were, but the Organians were very much like Trelane's parents. Ergo, Trelane's species, as far as we have ANY evidence for, appears to be NOTHING like the Q and that's reason to logically conclude that they are two different species. There is no basis in canon (no evidence we have seen in any episode) that would even suggest they are the same species, except baseless speculation and conjecture by some fans. There IS, however, some evidence and very logical argument for the proposition that Trelane's species MIGHT be the Organians, in that Trelane's parents shared many similarities to the Organians. The Q, as far as we have seen, have displayed nothing but DISsimilarities to Trelane's parents. So proposing they might be Q, while interesting to talk about, has no evidence to support it, and significant evidence against it. It's still possible of course, but there's no reason to think it's true. In the real world, we know the writers of the TOS episode Squire of Gothos certainly did not intend Trelane to be a Q. They couldn't have, because the Q hadn't been created yet when Squire of Gothos was written. The Q were created by TNG writers 20 years after TOS ended. BTW, no offense intended, but there is no hyphen in the word "omnipotent." It is a single word, not a hyphenated word.

[@skyjuiceification]

In the book Q Squared, you find out Trelane was part of the continuum and Q was supposed to mentor him into adulthood.

[@StarTrekChimera]

Trelane is an early Q child. He doesn't yet know his powers, or he could even be a hybrid, and yes, they had kids. Amanda for instant. She had parents.

[@kavikkang9411]

I have ALWAYS thought of Trelane and his "family" as "Q" ever since the first time I saw Encounter at Farpoint. I immediately thought that, and the fact they never did an episode connecting it disappointed me.

[@arrow1414]

I consider Trelane a Q, he is a young Q who still need technological argumentation before they reach their version of puberty (Trelane acted like a winny 8 year old to his "parents").

[@joepugh678]

Yeah but Q acted pretty immature himself lol

[@thelouster5815]

Joe Pugh Q has been established to be different to others of his species. He did get exiled in one episode for basically being a dick to all lower life forms.

[@DMSProduktions]

Argumentation? LOL! He did argue a bit!

[@joepugh678]

@@DMSProduktions yeah...I guess augmentation was the intended word. :)

[@DMSProduktions]

@@joepugh678 LOL! The old, ' autocorrect in the comment box routine?' ;o)

[@JohnCastleSmokeless]

Headcanon time, from a writer: 1. The Q don't use technology. They manifest metaphors in physical form. (We know this by the way Q took Picard, Troi, Data, and Yar to a late 21st century courtroom. That environment was a physically manifested metaphor. So was Trelane's mirror. That's why Trelane still had his powers after Kirk broke the mirror. The mirror was a mere symbol, and breaking the symbol had no real effect on what it symbolized. 2. The Q didn't have parents until Amanda Rogers was born. Remember her? When Q was talking about Q Jr., he said that Q Jr. was the first Q born _inside the Continuum_ in millennia. Amanda Rogers was born _outside the Continuum._ Trelane may likewise have been born outside the Continuum. Alternatively, we know that the Q aren't restrained by linear time the way we are. Trelane may have been born _after_ Q, Jr. and just hopped a century or so back in time to play on his toy planet. Third alternative: it may have been the other way 'round. Trelane was the last Q _previous to Q, Jr._ to have been born inside the Continuum, and hopped forward in time. Indeed, his misbehavior may very well have been the catalyst for a moratorium among the Q on having children. The key to understanding the Q is to understand that they aren't bound by the same restraints we are. The word to describe that state of existence is, "metacorporeal."

[@arandil1]

It may be that the device was meant to hide Trelane from the Continuim. The loss of the device had no effect on his powers, but every use afterwards risked being seen by the Q.

[@tommargarites2811]

I don't agree that they don't use tech, in a few episodes regarding the Q, it was said, they were once much like humans in their infancy at one point, and that the "Q" know everything., Perhaps in the case of Trelaine, a young and very ummmm maybe challanged? young Q having difficulties and would rather play than learn, made those devices as part of an exercise in their history, or he just liked to tinker with things, he was fascinated by devices. Remember the "parents' told him they would'nt let him make planets anymore if did not stop misbehaving, so for this young Q it was a kind of a hobby.

[@paulwalsh2344]

@@tommargarites2811 I have to agree with you and Lore Reloaded. I think the Q DO use technology. Why else would Q tell Q Jr. "DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG !" unless they had a tiny bit of fear of a species that is so effective at assimilating disparate technology. If it was all entirely natural non-technological power, they would have complete immunity from and little need for such a warning.

[@michaelwilkins124]

These theories give writers a bit too much credit (disclaimer, I think the writers are awesome). 30 or so different writers fired in first 2 seasons of TNG. Do you think they really worried about keeping the plots consistent enough to have full overarching backstories, or were making episodes to entertain and keep the show going? See Shatner's Chaos on the Bridge, Roddenberry added Q in a very short time to get his name on writing Farpoint Station and fill out 30 minutes to make the pilot 2 hours instead of 1 as dictated by the studio brass. It is fun to try and reconnect these storylines and make references, but really I think these kind of discussions are what actual writers might read and decide to add truth to it later because it does make sense. At least I hope writers read these kind of discussions for inspiration.

[@Khalagata]

There's also the episode in Voyager when Q wants to have a child with Janeway to save the continuum from the civil war started by a Q committing suicide. At the end of the episode Q introduces Janeway to his child, born from 2 Q's in the continuum. Trelane could easily be that child, son of John DeLancie's Q.

[@antonioaguera4580]

Actually, the gesture the Q use is more an affectation or grandiose gesture, you can see it in Voyager's episode: Death Wish . When Q is chasing Q, at the final move they all get transported, but Q did not snap his fingers.

[@kaitlyn__L]

In DS9 he doesn’t click his fingers at all. Also he materialises Janeway’s nightgown without letting go of her. So it’s 110% optional, even if maybe it’s a PITA to do it the alternate way or something.

[@shawnr888]

I remember when I watched this episode for the first time thinking, either he's a Q, or the TNG writers drew inspiration from this episode when they created the Q character.

[@datahead15]

The book Q Squared implied that Trelane might have been Q's son from an affair he had.

[@krassos]

The Q novels were the best.

[@NotMe6044]

It also stated that the John de Lancie Q gave Gary Mitchell & Elizabeth Dehner their abilities in the aired TOS pilot... I love that book

[@johnbockelie3899]

Why would Q have bothered the Enterprise D ?, maybe Trelane was the Q's first encounter.

[@johnbockelie3899]

Elsewhere in the Q continuum bar, two figures pause before having a drink. One states " Ahh, Captain kirk, U.S.S. Enterprise ", ........and your problem?." "Ah , you know by now, ...Jean -Luc Picard, .........Enterprise D, come on now drink up!!!". Then Trelane and Q order another drink to forget their problems.😊

[@KioAMVs]

A bit more to it than that. Trelane, or Tri-Lane was a quasi-Q whose genesis and existence was non-linear and due to Q antics across three different timelines. Hence Tri-lane, three timelines, Trelane. It's one of Peter David's best, because the other timelines are ones mentioned canonically, too, and it ties several disparate episodes/movies into a single coherent plot and explains how several seemingly inexplicable and unrelated anomalies we see across Trek are actually what happens when juvenile Q go rogue.

[@jaspr1999]

YOu bring up a great point in the lack of a real timeline for the Q. For all we know Trelane could very well exist after the Q had a child and the Continuum decided to have more kids. Or, Trelane was Qs' child during his growing-up period before he appeared back on Voyager. If we take our timeline out of the equation then the 'when' of everything is completely fluid.

[@RobertWilke]

Remember we are talking about a nee omnipotent society that can move between space and time at will. There plain of existence really doesn't have a direct time constraint. Also when in the continuum it was stated that Voyager's crew had weapons to could hurt and kill the Q. Even though for it's portrayal they looked like single shot rifles. So in essence YES the Q do use technology. That Tech though could and probably is millions of years in advance of where humanity is. If anything Trelane is a young Q that hasn't been outside. Still understanding the rules and not being happy with them. I do think in the writing room they remembered this episode when TNG was being conceived.

[@christophergordon6012]

There is also the fact that Q (John de Lancie) and Q (Suzie Plakson) know that their interactions as known Q with the Federation wont officially happen for at least 100 years so decided to not reveal themselves in any meaningful capacity to Kirk.

[@thewewguy8t88]

@@RobertWilke i always felt like that civial war place was a methpohor for being engery. but seeing it as how humans could only see it. they were not weapons but engery that could be phyically used to hurt the Q as they were just seeing how the Q fight as humans can understand it if that makes any sense.

[@jeffreylessard7538]

Yah. Nope this is covered in a book mate and no Q fosters this little fool for awhile but no he isnt his

[@MadTheDJ]

Great video! Ever since reading Q-Squared when it came out, I've subscribed to the theory Trelane could be a Q, or a sort of related species. Hell, the Trill as a species appear in one episode of TNG with enough biological and cultural differences from the later DS9-codified species that the differences between Trelane and Q don't seem so pronounced by comparison.

[@glennwatson3313]

There were several different near omnipotent races in the various Star Trek shows. The Organians, the Greek Gods, the Nagilum, The Prophets, the Douwd, the Thasians.

[@COMALiteJ]

Many comments here have spoken of Peter David’s TNG novel _Q Squared_ which covers the topic of this video, but since you mentioned the Greek Gods, you may want to know about another of his novels. Peter was arguably the first _Trek_ novelist to be given a specific “corner” of the Trek universe to play in. He did the novel series *_Star Trek:_*_ New Frontier_ which is set in the time of DS9 and features supporting characters from TNG and DS9 (and even a couple from the old animated _Star Trek_ series featuring the TOS ship and crew!). One new character Peter created for this series (which takes place aboard a ship known as the _U.S.S. Excalibur_ which patrols Thallonian space) was an Earth human who had the seemingly supranormal ability to calculate warp fields and the like in his head. It turns out he was - more than that. Remember how Apollo left a woman pregnant? Guess who his descendant is? The story is told in the two-part novel storyline “Being Human” and “Gods Above.”

[@kennethcook9406]

The Q don't have children? I'm pretty sure that Voyager covered this.

[@TheDarkVampire666]

And Amanda Rogers from TNG

[@Goatcha_M]

Frankly its pretty clear to me that Trelane is the Q (Junior) from the Q2 episode of Voyager. The Trelane incident was the reason for him being sent to Voyager.

[@ZontarDow]

In TNG two Q became human and Rogers was their human offspring that had some residual powers that Q elevated, while in Voyager the first Q conceived by Q in their Q form was born.

[@martychisnall]

Amanda Rogers, Q Junior ... the Q definitely have children

[@SashaKittens]

They didn't have children at first. The Voyager episode showed that at some point, the Q started having children, since the Q's had a baby. Since time means nothing to the Q, this would mean that there could be offspring of Q in any point in time.

[@andyhart358]

"He's not a 'Q'. He's a very naughty boy".

[@andyhart358]

@meow purr The 'Q' are a race of omni-potent (but not omni-scient) beings from the Star Trek universe. They have extra-ordinary powers to manipulate and change things, seemingly at will. They do not appear to know everything though, which can make them dangerous. Ultimate power without ultimate knowledge. Possibly for this reason, most 'Q' are well behaved (by our standards) and stay out of the affairs of other races, but every now and again you get a 'rogue' one who just can't resist poking their nose into the affairs of what they deem to be 'lesser races'. There is some evidence that the 'Q' police their own kind, and try to maintain some order, but due to their incredible powers, a little mischief can go a long way. They all seem to go by the name/reference "Q", and refer to each other by that term. Whether this is a shared 'race' name, or whether they have another means of identifying themselves from each other, we can only speculate. Due to their ability to easily disrupt the lives of other beings around them, they would be best avoided, ...... if you could !!

[@DMSProduktions]

@@andyhart358 You fell right IN to that 1!

[@andyhart358]

@@DMSProduktions Just being polite, and providing a public service.

[@DMSProduktions]

@@andyhart358 Haha! Indeed! ;o)

[@jv-lk7bc]

@@andyhart358 Q are very powerful by our standards but are not omni-potent.

[@joerogers9413]

If Trelane is a younger version of John Delaney's Q, who was allowed to interact with humanity again 100 years later, that would explain why he chose to appear on the Enterprise. And was originally so hostile towards them.

[@SnowDaulphin]

Nice imagination and thought but it was never revealed this way.

[@joerogers9413]

@@SnowDaulphin True. I doubt they even thought about Trelane when they created Q.

[@SnowDaulphin]

@@joerogers9413 the question is why not though. Wonder if there were copyright issues like the City on Edge of Forever or Thunderball.

[@TG626]

@@SnowDaulphin TOS was a touchy subject in the writers room, despite things like The Naked Now. It wasn't long before TOS references would be embargoed for a good while. So it's hard to say if "Q was based on Trelane" or "if someone had mentioned Trelane being similar to Q we would have never seen Q"

[@jesse_cole]

@@joerogers9413 you... doubt that? Both characters dressed like Napoleon, and both characters put members of a starship crew on "trial." They both even forced the captain to participate in some kind of weird "survival game." Q might not have been intended to be a continuation of the same character as Trelane, but Roddenberry definitely based a number of things about Q on that original series episode. Most likely, Gene Roddenberry was trying to recreate some of the magic of the original series when he started TNG, so he dug into the archives to find some things to build on, and he came across Trelane. It's kinda silly to suggest they "didn't even think about it."

[@ZodyCheste]

When I first watched Q on TNG I believed her was of the same spices as Trelane in TOS. My friend argued about the mirror, but I pointed out the "parents" and how they were light and not an actual humanoid. I am glad you see them similar, if not the same, to how I have always under stood them.

[@a2pha]

8:20 "You broke my sword !" Priceless dialogue.

[@TheWPhilosopher]

I can hear Q saying that all mock offended so yep. A Q.

[@aaronscott5892]

There is a book written, can’t remember the name of it, that covers the fact that Trelane is a Q just an emotionally and intellectually challenged one. John deLancie’s Q is an uncle of sorts to him and is tasked with keeping him out of trouble because his parents are embarrassed by him. It’s a good read with a good plot. (Edit: the name of the book is Q Squared)

[@TheZeroAssassin]

I think I read that one. And I also seem to recall it was suggested Q was actually his father

[@r0bw00d]

The book is called _Q-Squared._

[@berryb745]

I know, (if not the same book) about how the Q or why rather why the Q are so involved in human interest, not so much the Q per say but de lancie ( area of operation) it ties in with undiscovered county with Nil (what does god need with a spaceship) the story on that is amazing, truth of the matter is I think everything the Q have done is all part of the plan (everything with the Q are super convenient (Quinn just happened to be put in an rock 300 years before and just happened to to be in the direct path of voyager in the delta quadrant)?. How convenient; on the outlined documents in Star Trek it is known de lancie character was based off of trelan, head canon the possibilities are endless.

[@krispalermo8133]

@@berryb745 Top it off, .. Head canon. a.) The actress that player Q's wife is also the same actress to play Worf's wife. And on Voyager Q's wife made a remake for having a .. thing .. for Klingons. So Worf's son could be part Q. b.) At the end of S:TNG final ep." End of all Good Things," Q mentions to Picard that Worf traveling through different realities was Q's doing. Testing Picard & Riker for enlisting into the Q order is one thing, but they were also testing Worf ? c.) Voyager End Game, the older Janeway died baiting the Borg Queen, she wakes up with Q handing her a cup of hot coffee welcoming her home. d.) As for Boothy, Star Fleets head gardener, ... As so Amanda's parents.

[@berryb745]

@@krispalermo8133 that is interesting about worf, I knew the same actress but never tried putting them as the same. There is also apparently a deleted scene a clip from ds9 the very last scene is supposedly a changling seeping up from the floor in the female changling prison cell after she was brought to prison where the goo turned into delancie Q and said I told you so, and that is where it ends, I havnt seen it, nor heard much on it, (it may not exist) but would be really interesting to know if Q was involved in the wormhole opening somehow , or at least Q is why the founders where so scared of the federation.

[@RetroRobotRadio]

What if Tilane was using technology in order to remain under the radar from the other Q (his parents)? He obviously was hiding from them, so instead of using regular Q abilities he set up a machine to get similar results without alerting his parents that he was abusing his powers.

[@jesse_cole]

Actually, that's not a bad theory. The destruction of the mirror didn't undo Trelane's powers, but it may have undone the "jamming signal" that Trelane was using to avoid detection. That thing behind the mirror might have been a "Q cloaking device" of some kind, and the Q parents were able to locate Trelane after Kirk destroyed it.

[@mandolinman2006]

There's a couple of things you missed. In TNG, the idea of a Q having children meant leaving the Continuum, though Voyager had a different story. But it was a Q with a human then. But the biggest thing is, the Q child in TNG, I forgot her name, was showing powers before Q (DeLancey) showed up. It was her showing her abilities that got their attention.

[@christophersandidge8257]

Peter David wrote a book about this, that basically implied that not only was Trelane a Q, but was "Q" 's bratty little child. I know the books are not considered "cannon", but as far as I'm concerned.... yeah. That's the truth I cling to.

[@dangrunkemeyer7173]

Yes - I always thought this was true. I didn't even think it was a debate.

[@COMALiteJ]

It’s titled _Q Squared_ and is a fun read indeed.

[@MRay-zj4ro]

In the ST - The Next Generation episode “True Q” in which Q tries to determine if Amanda Rogers is a Q she exhibits powers that appear to be a part of her biology and not set off by a trigger? Thoughts?

[@dustinfoose8377]

My thought on this was always that IF the Q have some technology involved, it would be something that is triggered via brain waves of the Q (like in the book "Sphere", where if a sentient being encounters it, they access the power automatically as a result of having higher brain functions, and chaos ensues). If you are a Q at a certain stage of growth, this technology automatically starts working for you whether you are aware of it or not. With Amanda, she has reached that stage of development and so manifests things by simply thinking of them, the pile of puppies for example. She didn't intend it, they just appeared because her emotions were high at the moment. The gestures that the Q use to do things wouldn't be so much an activation signal as the result of a mental training to not allow every aberrant thought to manifest. Like wizard incantations or the like. It's them focusing on allowing their mental control to release enough to let whatever they are thinking of be caused by the technology.

[@Aerophire]

Unintented manifestations vs intended/knowing use of the ability.

[@badman3000]

I always like the Q not having a nonlinear time perspective that was pretty much the whole point of All Good Things to show Picard how to the continuum sees things.

[@salinagrrrl69]

Tralane: "YOU HAVE EARNED MY WRATH!" My fav line.

[@thomasjones6216]

This is a really good theory, very well thought out

[@jaysonraphaelmurdock8812]

I like the idea that Trelane was an early member of the Q. A freshman or rookie you might say.

[@donaldkroth2579]

Seen De Lance at a con years ago. The question came up then. He replied, "Trelane was my kid! " No real answer will ever be known. But grounding it in reality we must remember which series came first and which ideas were made first. If expanded on later or taken as an idea for a new concept? Well, that's a Hollyweird thing. I try not to take them seriously because they contradict themselves to often to the point of becoming senseless and outrageous. Just enjoy each separately for what they are. Entertainment! ☺

[@artvandelay2873]

When you said that the Q could very well be using technology, I thought of the TNG episode "Devil's Due". Just as Ardra used technology to trick the people of Ventax II into believing she had great powers, the Q could be using technology sufficiently beyond that of 24th century Starfleet / Federation tech to make people believe they have great powers.

[@wbnc66]

Good point.... Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.... To caveman a match is magic, to a 13th-century man a cellphone is magic, ...To starfleet Q are magic... they might know enough to suspect its something non-mystical but cant comprehend how it works. At one point Q does casually suggest changing the gravitational constant of the Universe...

[@martinXY]

@@wbnc66 Pretty sure my parents thought cellphones were magic.

[@hydrolito]

Ardra would blink when she used her power so you could say she copied I dream of Jeanie that blinked when she used her power and Samantha on Bewitched wiggles her nose. So could say they copied those shows.

[@jiyu9694]

@@hydrolito Why do people think that just because two stories have something similar in them that one author "copied" the other? People come up with completely original stories all the time that coincidentally have similar themes. It doesn't necesarily mean they copied or were inspired by any other person's story element. It's like the Dr Who fan who insisted the Borg are a rip off of the Cybermen, completely oblivious to the fact that the idea of cyborgs predates both Trek and Who by decades.

[@TheDarkVampire666]

Yes ever since I was a kid (well a early teen) my theory was always that Trelane was he was a Q but from earlier in their timeline when they were just becoming powerful but still needed help.

[@jamesketter9195]

There is a wonderful Next Generation novel called "Q-Squared" by Peter David, in which it is revealed outright that not only is Trelane a child of the Q, he is the son of John DeLancey's Q that we know from TNG. He lives his life out of sync with the time flow of the rest of the universe. It is suggested that Trelane is the child Q had during the events of Voyager with another Q after the Q civil war. It is an earlier, younger version than we see Janeway and the crew babysit later on. That version has matured and forgotten previous events in which he was Trelane. It is a very heady, trippy book in which cause and event are thrown out the window, but definitely worth a read if you can find it.

[@jeffreylessard7538]

Yes i was just saying that on another comment about the book. Though he isnt the Q from TNG's son but other than that yes right in

[@SnarkNSass]

Yep yep 🖖🏼

[@jamesketter9195]

@@jeffreylessard7538 it has been 20 years since I read the book, so my head canon may have filled in some memory holes.

[@jeffreylessard7538]

@@jamesketter9195 thats all good hey i couldn't for the life of me remember who wrote it 😆

[@Dargonhuman]

eBay has plenty of inexpensive listings for the book, so long as you're flexible on the actual condition of the book itself, and it's not hard to find ... alternative versions if you don't mind the taste of rum...

[@conandude76]

100 years isn't even a moment in time for the Q. The progression from TOS to TNG to Voyager was a blink of the eye to them..

[@klintbeastwould2370]

Been watching TNG for 20 years, TOS for 5, never even thought of this. Awesome!

[@BigWillyG1000]

Trelane could be a fully grown Q and the Continum, including his parents if he's created like Q Jr acted like parents of a grown child reacting to their grown son having a DUI or otherwise getting into adult troubles.

[@KatrinaLeFaye]

Also the female Q child on TNG, her parents were both Q that choose to have a child and live on earth.

[@Mukation]

The Q also work outside our "time". Quinn had been imprisoned for 300 years, yet he had been inspired by "our" Q, who finally got into trouble and was turned into a human in TNG. Clearly they are manipulating us now.

[@davidjames468]

@@Mukation - Well, supposedly "Q" knows a lot about the behind the scenes in our government....

[@jiyu9694]

Nah, Trelane was clearly a young child of his species. He acted like a juvenile spoiled brat throwing temper tantrums, not like a drunk adult, and his parents scolded him just like a human parent would scold a five year old human child.

[@BigWillyG1000]

@@jiyu9694 I've seen enough grown men in bars to see them act like kids.

[@richardlangdon712]

It's called the 1994 NYT Best Selling novel, "Q-Squared".

[@09joseph831]

I’ve always looked at the q as the end of humanity coming back to close loops.

[@rizikram3897]

Same. Watching the finale of TNG as a kid, it's what I thought. Q pops in to check on humanity/give em a nudge. Mainly because of how in the final judgement scene, Q tells Picard that he was able to think outside of his limited/current realm of understanding. Sorta alluding to humanity evolving in that direction. I always imagined that Q actually told him that humanity would become the Q in that end scene where he's about to whisper something in Picard's ear.

[@RobertWilke]

@@rizikram3897 and that might be the ultimate goal. the Continuum sent Q not as a judge but as a guiding hand. His tactics may be out of hand but in the end he does care for them. Previously in the background as has been displayed in the voyager Q episode where one of their kind wanted and end to his life. You see how both Q's helped humanity along. It wasn't until the time of TNG that Q had to step in hard so that we didn't screw it up. We'd never had a chance against the Borg if he hadn't introduced us to them the way he did. In the end it would be interesting to find out.

[@stephenberry1622]

@@rizikram3897 In one episode, "Q" does drop-in on Picard and offer Picard guidance and other services, like as if the "Q" were to "Teach" Humans. Perhaps in a strange way, they do (at least they prepared StarFleet for possible invasion from the Borg). The perhaps, since the "Q" have been watching humans, maybe we are the "Teachers". Remember Picard quoting Shakespeare hinting at "mans" possible future. Personally I think Shakespeare was quoting the Apostle John. Perhaps the "Q" were directed to learn from "humans" by an even more powerful group of individuals.

[@CieJe.Alexander]

@@stephenberry1622 I've often thought the same.

[@Firefox13A]

Oh that’s a good one. Crossed my mind

[@davidleaghty2943]

As a child. Trelane may have needed the machine to help him a little.

[@Khyrid]

The mirror could have been a test also. Fitting considering we call the test for self awareness the mirror test.

[@Wiggymaster]

My theory: Trelane is Q junior. Time has no meaning for the Q. He goes back to mess with Kirk until his parents corral him. Also, the "technology" is all for show. He's playing a game with Kirk and what fun would a game be if not for the ability to lose.

[@crgrier]

This is Q junior the toddler version. The technology in the mirror is training wheels, a learning toy provied by his parent Qs.

[@jayman6608]

I agree because the last thing you want being with unlimited power accidentally wiping out The universe. I to believe that this is q jr. Perhaps like his father fascinated with human history. So he journeys back to be one of the greatest captains of all time.

[@TentaclePentacle]

my thoughts exactly. The parents kirk saw would be de lancie Q and the Q wife coming to catch the kid after he had escaped. The Q send the kid to janeway to teach him a lesson after that.

[@jayman6608]

@@TentaclePentacle Exactly, In fact even after Kirk had destroyed the device he still was able to fight Kirk with abilities. He just seemed to not have as much control over it. The q Is not restricted by time or space. It would not be a surprise if they suddenly appeared in the dimension of star trek they're putting on TV now, Rather than stick to just the original dimension timeline. Not that I really watched the new stuff but still.

[@menacelurkingyet8345]

Wrong ! In TNG's Encounter at Farpoint, it is Q's first encounter with humans.

[@antonycharnock2993]

The s"Q"uire of Gothos. Obviously the TNG writers were paying attention.

[@roryscott2941]

Nice!

[@Bobdixon_Moonvarga_Dancer_III]

They had some of the same staff, Gene ran both shows, Dorothy Fontana wrote for both.

[@BigboiiTone]

Tng writers: S-Q're of Gothos , HA! How clever!

[@jiyu9694]

You guys are REALLY reaching with that one, LOL.

[@halfigliulo1019]

Cute but trelane needs machines. Q don't

[@joerogers9413]

Q: I remember how terrible Captain Kirk was! Picard: Starfleet captains don't act like that anymore! Q: You mean you don't have treesomes with green chicks? Picard: No... we still do that.

[@Spacegoat92]

Picard: Nervously looks at Riker...

[@jerrardbeasley4247]

@@Spacegoat92 Picard got his share of....

[@DrFranklynAnderson]

“Treesomes with green chicks” _Pamala Isley has entered the chat_

[@DMSProduktions]

@@DrFranklynAnderson Watch OUT for SPLINTERS! ;oP

[@menacelurkingyet8345]

That was not Captain Kirk with the Orion slave girl, it was Captain Pike.

[@HippeusOmega]

I just love the look on Leonard Nimoy's face as Spock @7:44 listening to Kirk 😆

[@jonathanhadden7157]

That Trelane was a Q was documented in the book “Q-Squared”. As was Charlie X. Additionally, the “Continuum” exists as the barrier at the edge of our galaxy (the same one that boosts telepaths when touched).

[@darrellboggess4954]

unfortunately writing a book doesn't make something 'canon'...i can write that Riker is a Q because of that one episode...did Q give Riker powers, or did Riker let him think he did...not canon of course

[@katherinkeegan8601]

Does the book mention Charlie Evens or are you just adding him due to your mind set?

[@garysnow1475]

The Great barrier that surrounds the Galaxy is keeping out a super powered alien but he crept in a little bit when the original Enterprise breached most of him was still outside of the Galaxy.

[@garysnow1475]

@@katherinkeegan8601 Charlie was a human that was given powers by aliens

[@katherinkeegan8601]

@@garysnow1475 Yes he was, but that doesn't make him Q. The aliens that took him in gave him powers to survive. If he was found by Q, they could have arranged for him to be "found" by humans and returned to human civilization.

[@mbellamy82]

He's a Q in Beta canon. "Q Squared" was a TNG novel featuring Trelane as a Q.

[@jaynavarre6498]

Beta Canon?…I hate canon mechanics

[@DmGray]

In universe, I think your theories make sense. From a creative perspective, this was a throwaway story with ENORMOUS potential & the addition of Q mirrors it VERY closely, either through incident or imitation. It woul dbe GENUINELY foolish to NOT consider this cannon. That said, the early episodes of Trek were not particularly good at consistent world building.

[@LoreReloaded]

Yea most of my stuff links stuff never meant to be linked.. still fun :)

[@eltreum1]

@@LoreReloaded I had often wondered if TNG writers were actually making a call back to this TOS episode when they came up with Q. It would make sense.

[@TheRealMirCat]

@@eltreum1 No matter what the theories or cannon, this episode was totally an inspiration for the creation of Q. Kinda like how V'Ger was a recreation of Nomad.

[@Fe22234]

@@eltreum1 I think Gene Roddenberry just seemed to love the all powerful alien concept.

[@Dargonhuman]

@@Fe22234 He certainly had enough of them in the original series lol. Though, the reasons for that are many, layered and complicated, but the short list is, he was very anti-religious and liked putting in "god analogues" for the heroes to defeat as his own rebellion against religious deities, and he liked pitting his very human characters against godlike entities who lost touch with their humanity as a cautionary tale of the corrupting influence of ultimate power. That second one is the reason Dr. Manhattan exists in Watchmen, and I believe Gene would have found him to be a very interesting character study if Gene had lived long enough to read that comic.

[@CatsClaw44]

Actually the Douwd from Star Trek: TNG's episode "The Survivors" matches up one on one with Trelane and Q.

[@jaynavarre6498]

I have noticed, nobody mentions the Douwd

[@glynth]

He may be even more powerful than the Q.

[@kalfive6398]

Trelane's mirror and planet always seemed like Q training wheels. Both him not knowing how to make food, and the mirror boosting him; to the "parents"... it's very like a training area. New Q Trelane

[@LancetFencing]

im totally on board with Trelaine being a Q

[@ilerien]

I did watch the episode and I watched delancey's interview where he admitted that q is based on Trelane... so I agree with the notion that trelane is q from past or Just in disguise

[@michaelanuradha-khufu74]

Maybe they are the less evolved more physical ancestors of the Q

[@stephenberry1622]

A couple of weeks ago, John Delance was commenting about re-appearing on PICARD as "Q" on a Star Trek related blog. I sent him a comment stating that I looked forward to John further developing the "Q" character and that "Q" always reminded me of the Norse God "Loki." I also mentioned that there are beings more powerful than "Q" as perhaps "Q" are to "humans. Trelane, on the other hand, always struck me as a 5 year old child in a Grown Man's Body and a dangerous amount of power. Although, I do like the line from Trelane's parents, "They have souls, they are superior." I'd like to think that they are right. Also, remember the "Organians." Although similar to "Q" in many respects, but quite different. John Delance did make several guest appearances on Stargate SG-1, playing a colonel with less than honorable aspirations. He ends up becoming the host to a Goa'uld and ends up taking an unexpected last walk into space (curiosity of Jack O'Neill). It would be fun to ask John Delance if that is how "Q" got born.......just kidding........maybe.....

[@londeaux]

@@stephenberry1622 I too, though John's version of Q as Loki. I would imagine that Starfleet would have to give the various members of the Q, that they've encountered, additional names to help identify them. Like they would nickname John's Q as Loki Q.

[@jiyu9694]

Someone else said they saw an interview where DeLancie DENIED that Q was based on Trelane, and said he in fact had never even heard of Trelane before playing Q. We met Trelane's parents in the same episode we met Trelane (the only episode any of them ever appeared in), and they were absolutely nothing like the Q.

[@gamersenpai742]

Trelane was Q's child. The Q are nonlinear, so junior just went back in time and met Kirk.

[@ReelSpider]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Three strikes, your out.

[@props-model-shop]

A real Q can time travel not only himself but others as well. On TNG the Q took Picard back to the beginning of Earth's birth of life. Trelane appeared not to have that ability. Trelane had no knowledge of what food or water had taste like.

[@tonyjones1560]

Cool video! FTR, I thought Trelaine was a "Q." What's scary is, IMO he was a spoiled little kid. Picard's nemesis was a young adult...like a "twenty-something." Sure hate it for the ship that meets and pisses off a completely "full grown" one...

[@halfigliulo1019]

Trelane was a spoiled kid. He was studying other beings according to his parents. He also had to leave his playthings alone

[@majorbogart3476]

twenty-something makes sense... It would be very difficult to intellectually and emotionally grow past the "I'm invincible and know everything" stage of life if you actually were invincible and knew everything...

[@BrianTaylor-AlwaysInTao]

On the TNG episode where the blonde girl becomes (or rather discovers) she is a Q - her "Parents" are killed by an unusually strong tornado which - precedes Voyager's; "Q becomes a daddy episode," by quite a while. Trelane was obviously the prototype for the Q character - and if we say he is in fact a Q we are probably safe in that assumption. Also if we say he isn't quite a Q we miss the bigger picture. His mastery of what he is doing is approximately on par with a somewhat uninitiated Q. Between the mirror and the sword being breakable fixtures that; "concerned him somewhat," We can assume he had some difficulty getting them right. This mirrors the suicidal Q's revelation that they are indeed fallible creatures that present themselves as omnipotent.

[@InfernosReaper]

Yeah, but there's a *lot* of glossing over the *other* highly advanced beings that get encountered, especially in TOS, so saying that Qs would be the only player on that scale is a bit presumptuous

[@BrianTaylor-AlwaysInTao]

@@InfernosReaper Very true

[@mikehendon7327]

In one of the Peter David novels, Q was Trelane's vodka uncle. Not canon, but still fun.

[@classicgunstoday1972]

As far as I’m concerned, those books are more cannon and true to Star Trek than anything post 2000

[@anonymousaccordionist3326]

@@classicgunstoday1972 Even Enterprise?

[@classicgunstoday1972]

@@anonymousaccordionist3326 especially Enterprise

[@LainK1978]

@@classicgunstoday1972 you obviously didn't actually watch all of Enterprise.

[@classicgunstoday1972]

@@LainK1978 I caught the first dozen episodes when it originally aired and the rest when it went to sci fi channel. By and large, was not impressed. Contradicted a lot of what Original, Next Generation and DS9 established; too many twisted weird storylines, Scott Bakula is too whiny and emotional as captain, too many uninteresting and weird characters.

[@lonelyp1]

In TOS he was supposed to be a child, so maybe he WAS "Q" playing with some humans for the first time.

[@gordonkennedy8243]

I always found it funny when Kirk mentions ink wells and pigtails a 23rd century person would have no understanding of that.

[@HocusFocusProductions]

The Book "Q Squared" answers this question once and for all.

[@proto-geek248]

Not canon. NOT a Q.

[@VanishingNomad]

In TNG, Q procreated with a female of his kind, so they do infact have parents.

[@jamestarbet9608]

That particular plot line originates in Voyager, concluding the Q Civil War. de Lancie/Q first propositioned Janeway to carry his child before turning to Plakson/Miss Q. TNG saw the introduction of Amanda Rogers in True Q (s6e6) born to Q parents in Human (flesh and blood) form. If Trelane is in fact a Q, he is the third known Q child, or first or whatever. The whole Q Jr plotline is a continuity problem, "first Q child" and all. Continuity over 50+ years, 12 different TV series, 13 different theatrical movies, multiple conflicting timelines, and 800+ literature spin offs is pretty darn near impossible to properly reconcile.

[@proto-geek248]

* in fact

[@doctordoom8472]

You imagine the disaster if Q's son is in picard season 2 😆

[@nerdyogre6683]

John Des Lancie's Q sired a son in the Voyager series. Also, in TNG and in Voyages we learn that the Q can be stripped of their power but retain the knowledge. That coupled with the fact young Q was too much like his father and was stripped of his power he could have the knowledge to build device to duplicate the powers of the Q.

[@davidjames468]

I like how the novel Q-Squared explains Trelane as being a Q and even the son of the Q Picard's crew always dealt with. I haven't read it in a while, but I liked how if one were to read Q-in-Law, Imzadi, and Q-Squared, there was a nice "trilogy" of novels, though unofficial. All written by the same author. While not "Canon", still well worth reading. You could even bookend the "trilogy" with Vendetta and Triangle: Imzadi II - both also written by the same author too. 😉

[@kyonngowans7091]

Best me to it. Read those Peter David Trek novels as a kid. They were great.

[@halfigliulo1019]

My problem is trelane required machines to use his power. Q didn't

[@davidjames468]

@@halfigliulo1019 - Except he didn't. Not really. Watch the episode again and look what happens after Kirk "breaks" the machine. Trelane is still able to use his power. The machine was a red herring.

[@halfigliulo1019]

@@davidjames468 i have many times no it wasn't. He fixed the machine As I said he's like the aliens in catspaw. It amplified his power. Which means he's not a Q

[@davidjames468]

@@halfigliulo1019 - and do you remember how he fixed the machine?

[@squirmingcoil7889]

When I saw "Hide and Q"/TNG when it was originally aired (as a 9 year old), I thought Q's "parents" were going to show up at the end! Great video !

[@itubeutubewealltube1]

there is an interview here on youtube where john delancie specifically said that he based the character of Q on Trelanes personality and performance.. He even said he believed that was Roddenberrys reason for Q in the first place...even though he never specifically brought up Trelane to him when talking about the character of q

[@dashfatbastard]

Peter David's "Q Sqared", although non-canonical, has given me the most satisfying answer.

[@proto-geek248]

The most satisfying answer is Trelane's not a Q.

[@helenaconstantine]

How about: The writers of the Next Generation had seen the Squire of Gothos and decided to reuse the concept in a more developed form?

[@kingoffriesthekingwillrise1701]

That seems legit

[@5roundsrapid263]

That or they’d just watched Doctor Who’s “Trial of a Timelord”!

[@buckhunter6560]

I agree. And Q's trial always annoyed me. Never once did Picard say that the Q have no authority over humanity to hold a trial of any kind, much less to scapegoat the first ones he met. Such a protest wouldn't do any good, but the audience and crew would've thought it was a good point. He was subservient and pathetic the whole time rather than approach from a position of strength like Kirk would've.

[@proto-geek248]

In that case they would have mentioned Trelane or @ least eluded to him. NOT a Q.

[@IAmTheRealBill]

@@proto-geek248 there was no need for them to allude to Trelane.

[@RLJmusic4life]

I see enough evidence and have always thought that Trellane was a part of the continuum. It may have been an oversight on the writer’s part. John D Lancie in the first episode should have introduced himself as the Q and said you may have heard of me before and that he was Trellane. When I first saw that episode of TNG, I thought it was it was the return of Trellane.

[@ScottLewis1967]

But not Q, which are omnipotent and therefore do not evolve from an "earlier" version. Just similar characters with similar powers, but obtained by different means

[@halfigliulo1019]

They claim omnipotence but its revealed they're not. Q is afraid humans will surpass the Q. So obviously they're not

[@alexanderren1097]

A creative writer could easily retcon this together with the Q we all know and love

[@FreakyTeeth]

Well we know for a fact Q's have been born: Q had a kid and a Q had a kid who Q contemplated killing when that kid displayed powers on Picard's show.

[@kevg1617]

Q had a son with Q in voyager. That son was left with Janeway to teach him to behave, because Q and Q just couldn't handle it. Trelane had tools limiting his power that were foisted upon him by the very same parents that took him away at the end of the episode. The Q exist everywhere and everytime. Q has an affinity for humanity and Trelane had knowledge of Earth his "telescope" would not have given him access to according to it's stated ability. Is Trelane the baby version of Q's son to whom Janeway teaches some sort of platitude? Just my opinion, but it seems more likely that Trelane is baby Q who after being a brat in his playpen is then taken back, but Q and Q can't control him as his powers grow amongst a society who hasn't dealt with children in eternity, not since the "beginning" of the universe since we have no evidence they can go back further than hiding in the big bang. The mirror itself is one of the keys, a baby seeing itself and beginning to form the concept of it's individuality, the fighting, tricking it into feeling. Trelane is baby, one on a level that is beyond comprehension and how do you limit a baby's powers when a tantrum could end the universe. You cannot simply remove them at this stage, the baby's growth will be stunted much like the daughter of Q on TNG, who would be an illegal Q baby born before Trelane. Trelane was a legitimate Q born of Q parents. Evidence points to Trelane's parents being beings who simply can, much like Q and the only child of Q who was legitimate and would have been disciplined is Voyager's teenage Q. The pieces fit together even more nicely than Trelane simply being an early Q which does nothing to explain the power displayed by his parents or his knowledge of events that his telescope would not have allowed him to see.

[@markblakey3456]

Not sure he really is. I'm mean in TOS they've run across a few beings like him and they aren't all Q.

[@draugr7693]

Trelane needs technology to use most of his powers so I always imagined that he's an ancestor of the Q probably from when they were starting to transition from being a very highly advanced alien race to omnipotent beings.

[@kevg1617]

But he doesn't need the tech for his powers. He believes he needs the tech. There is no evidence his parents need anything for their powers and there is ample evidence Trelane doesn't need the tech, but believes he does and is acting out of impulse not thought at the end. Trelane is a baby learning what I, you and we mean at a fundamental level for an intelligence so beyond us that even imagining the story is difficult to grasp. Trelane is Q's son, Trelane is the only Q other than the illegal Q of TNG who refused her Q powers, to be born. Trelane is the only Q whose entire existence has been Q and learning what that means and Trelane is humanity's final form in current star trek, or more precisely the Q we leave after Janeway educates and spanks him and sends him on his way is the final form of Trelane we know of. Because de Lancie played off Trelane, because junior Q played off de Lancie and did a good job...

[@colinmoore7460]

@@kevg1617 If the technology was a booster, so, yes he could do without it, it just made things easier. And who's to say that was the only one he had available.

[@kevg1617]

@@colinmoore7460 perhaps, just no evidence for it or for his parents needing anything to whisk him away. His situation fits Q's affinities, he has foreknowledge of events relating to humans that his "telescope" could not have given him due to his distance and the stated capability, said telescope which was conveniently pointed at Earth. While certainly not flat out stated that Trelane is the basis for Roddenberry's Q, it was certainly for how de Lancie wished to portray Q.

[@arekpetrosian4965]

I think Trelane "needed" technology the way Thor in the MCU "needed" his hammer. Not as the source of his power, but as a focus and control aid for power that he possessed. Also, we don't know for a fact that the Q do NOT use technology, either.

[@kevg1617]

@@arekpetrosian4965 indeed. If they were depicted in a "real" galaxy that had a galactic opera functioning along logical technological lines. Star trek has shown strong evidence for spiritual woo type evolution as the "ultimate" goal of existence, whatever that means. In that sense they are very similar to star gate, the whole premise of Wesley's power is mind over matter, it is a defining feature of Star Trek that the mind has an evolutionary path distinct from that of the body.

[@tonynewman777]

That's right I'm glad somebody figured it out... I was thinking the same thing

[@RussellBarth]

Trelane is Q as a child the end of the trelane episode his "parents" indicate that he is basically their species' version of a little boy

[@richardb6260]

Peter David covered this in the book "Q Squared" decades ago.

[@richardlenton2639]

Brilliant story!

[@proto-geek248]

Which isn't canon.

[@richardb6260]

@@proto-geek248 aware of this. Just pointing out it's not a new idea.

[@toddnolastname4485]

Someone needs to play with Trelane's parent's voices, and make them sound like Delancy and the actress who played Q that he had a child with.

[@Dargonhuman]

Oh no, you're not suggesting we give Squire of Gothos the Star Wars Special Edition treatment, are you?

[@SYH653]

@@Dargonhuman It's already happened with the CGI insertions in TOS.

[@oldmanjohnson69]

Read "Q Squared" the TNG novel. It explains much. Also, remember the ending of "Squire of Gothos", the two energy beings asking forgiveness for their kid. One more, the TNG trilogy, about Q, his beginnings, and his family (yes I said family). All these novels are good reads. Ooh, I almost forgot, the last novel that mentioned Q and q, "I. Q.". Now that's a title.

[@indogyrsimdead]

Good book I read it years ago

[@XCodeHelpHub]

This us a novel and not the canon of the TV series.

[@oldmanjohnson69]

@@XCodeHelpHub and...

[@philtkaswahl2124]

Now I remember a fanfic where the TOS era crew ends up in the TNG era, and when Kirk meets Q he starts to realize it's the grown-up Trelane and calls him that the rest of the story.

[@mfrazer2598]

Q is my favorite secondary Star Trek character/species, one of my all-time favorite aliens. With this said, I was pleased this Star Trek Channel included the best explanation for time by the universe's most well-known Doctor!

[@SimonMoon5]

To me, the greatest mystery in all of the clips shown is this: Why is Kirk thinking of the prank of dipping girls' pigtails into inkwells? This would make sense for someone who was a child in the 1940s, but inkwells in desks vanished once ballpoint pens came into existence and I'm pretty sure that they don't even use ballpoint pens in the era of Star Trek, so why would he even be thinking of inkwells and pigtails? Is this an image that has somehow lasted through the centuries despite the obsolescent technology that is being referenced?

[@lillyanneserrelio2187]

Pretty sure it was the imagery written up by Gene Roddenberry's childhood as most of the viewers from his generation could still remember inkwells. A great example of a writer's own life experiences and memories accidentally dating a show

[@lightbearer313]

Good point about Kirk. However for accuracy I point out that when I was in primary school in the early 1960s in Australia we were still using inkwells with nibbed pens (there were also fountain pens of course), and as Star Trek was also 1960s, most people of the time would be familiar with the concept, so this was a joke aimed at contemporary audience.

[@deepfriedsammich]

Well, "double dumbass on me!" We know that Kirk's knowledge of history is a crazy-quilt of detailed information and amazing gaps. He doesn't know what a Clark Gable movie is. He can't drive an internal combustion automobile with a damn, but he is an expert on Abraham Lincoln, for example.

[@georgethompson1460]

@@lillyanneserrelio2187 That's the Doylist interpretation, the Watsonion one would be that old fashioned devices came into fashion in the federation. Say a traditionalist movement making older more romantic technology more of a norm, not hard to do if you live in a post scarcity environment.

[@fluffysheap]

Techno-primitivism is a thing even today. Maybe in the 23rd century there was a fad of using old fashioned ink pots. We know there are some people who prefer paper books. It might even be similar to teaching long division even though we have calculators. The real reason of course is that it would have made sense to viewers in the 1960s.

[@eagleclaw006]

I'd love to see a new ST movie with a Q also, I never really appreciated how much Pine looks like a young Shatner.

[@kmb0687788]

Yes...also, having Shatner somewhere play the older version of Kirk would be interesting to say the least ... As Spock always says it... "Fascinating.. "..🖖

[@Voorhees-Jason]

the new season of picard suppose to heavy involve q and time. According to the trailer something picard says or do triggers Q saying "the trial never ended" He snaps his finger and the timeline has changed where the federation is more of a authoritarian state and seven of nine does not have her implants. They wind up going back in time to try to correct what ever Q changed. Comes out next month. Looks really good!

[@chissstardestroyer]

Trelane as a Q? Well, the novel "Q Squared" answers that perfectly well as it defines it forever that he is, but a rogue member of the continuum.

[@Dargonhuman]

It's too bad that, with a tiny handful of exceptions, the novels aren't canon. But yes, if any of the novels were to be canonized, I'd want Q Squared to be right at the top of the list.

[@chissstardestroyer]

@@Dargonhuman They are canonical material, as they're sold for royalties; only fanfics are not canonical material in any universe storyline- everything that is sold for royalty contract is canonical material in that universe it is set in.

[@Dargonhuman]

@@chissstardestroyer No that's not how canon works. It's been a long standing rule in Star Trek that the books are not canon to the shows and movies and whatever is shown on a screen is official canon regardless of what happens in the books. This rule was set down by Roddenberry himself when the official novels being written at the same time as the scripts for TOS started contradicting major character and world building points in the show. In that respect, the books can have their own internal canon, as the writers started doing with the DS9 novels (which eventually was expanded to include every other Trek book series), but the events of those stories have no impact on the events of the shows. If that were the case, then there would be two Romulan governments in Picard rather than a bunch of Romulan refugees, as that's what happened in the books.

[@chissstardestroyer]

@@Dargonhuman Yes, it is how canon works that anything sold for profit via contract automatically becomes canon.

[@chissstardestroyer]

@@Dargonhuman If you disagree, then provide citation of Roddenberry saying otherwise, but it cannot be anything from a wiki, it must be valid, and wikis are not.

[@JoshSweetvale]

If Trelane wasn't a Q, he certainly was in their adress book.

[@Vjx-d7c]

The Qu from All Tomorrows is The best alien Qu

[@marklechman2225]

Well, since the idea of the Q as a species didn’t exist until long after this episode, I would say no, Trelane is not a Q. However it’s possible the writer of Encounter at Farpoint was inspired by the Squire of Gothos episode to create the Q.

[@darrellball435]

Yes, what about Amanda Rogers, the "daughter" of two Q and tested by Q (John De Lancie) for her fitness to be incorporated into the Q Continuum.

[@SpockChristmas]

I guess she disproves the idea that the Q need technology or Machinery to work their hocus pocus . She didn't even know she was of the Q and could still do "magic tricks". The Q seem alot like the witches on the old sitcom Bewitched from the 1960's.

[@jonmason1955]

At the onset of TNG, and noting the close similarity of the characters, my Trek buddies fully agreed with my premise that Trelane was a Q. You have come to the same irrefutable conclusions I did long ago. At a Creations Convention I attended many years ago, I noted to a small group if "know it alls", that S.T. reuses, in different variations, actors, characters and reworked storie lines. That brought heavy dissention despite offering proof. However, unbeknownst to me, I was standing next to Rick Berman, to whom Roddenberry passed the baton of continuing Star Trek. Berman quietly whispered to me, "You're good, not geeky, but you're good!" This was one of the comparisons I had offered.

[@jeffreyolin626]

In the early-90s, I was at a Trek convention in Maryland and found myself seated in the audience next to a kind older gentleman and we got to talking. I recognized him fairly quickly and told him about my interest in moving to California to become an actor, which I remember him encouraging. Then John de Lancey called him up on stage so they could do a panel on whether one of the Trek character's he'd played (not Koloth) was related to Q. William Campbell was a good guy.

[@ziraprod6090]

There are so many nerdy theories, ideas, and idiocy on you tube. Ten minute videos that could be 2min. This is the only idea I approve.