Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S2E14: The Icarus Factor

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[@peterkottke2570]

Picard: Here is your list of potential new first officers. Riker: This one was first in her class. This one got the highest score ever for Starfleet tactical testing. This one is an uncanny master of linguistics! These are some excellent officers! Picard: Huh? Oh sorry that's my list. Here is your list. Riker: Commander Bob Wheeler? The last four ships and two starbases he's been assigned to have all been destroyed by horrible accidents. Commander Marty Pascal. Hasn't lasted six months in any position before his commanding officer transferred him to a new assignment? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To reference some of your Voyager reviews an episode can live or die by its guest star. The guy who played Kyle Riker definitely falls in the category of a bad guest star. The actor just seems like he really didn't want to be there and phones it in. A better episode could have really sold the idea that Riker might leave. For example Coming of Age from last season was good enough that you could really question, "Is Wesley leaving the Enterprise?". But this episode just meanders so much that it telegraphs that Riker is staying. And really if a character is leaving a show, it must be done on a better episode. Was that fight scene between Riker and his father, a failed parody stab at Star Wars? ("With the blast shield down. I can't see a thing!") No mention of the third plot line? Data and the slightly off Enterprise engine readings? This episode was so lacking in plot that they added that example of pure nothingness for additional filler. This comes up a lot more in Best of Both Worlds. But in actual military what happens to an officer who refuses promotion? The Enterprise is the flagship. This isn't just about promoting Riker. Starfleet also wants new officers to serve and learn under Picard. He is considered one of their best captains. Wouldn't Starfleet's next action be to transfer him without the option of choice?

[@philmarsh1000]

In-universe, Riker would be mad to turn down his own command. IRL, Frakes would be mad to leave the show. I think this contradiction is why this episode doesn't work for me, although I don't think it's terrible.

[@810PRODUCTIONS]

Riker loosing his ship due to the Borg would indeed have been a great way to get him back on the Enterprise. We would have been able to see Riker in command for half a season.

[@worldsbestpantz3445]

Kyle is totally Icarus. He flew too close to the son. Hwwwaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

This episode really let me down. The biggest reason being the lack of Riker & Worf scenes. These two are like brothers, even by this point. Worf had that great scene where he went to Riker and flat out asked if he could come with. “You’re going into danger, I’ll be there to help you through it.” That could have dovetailed wonderfully into Riker deciding his chosen family is more important than his career or his father’s opinion, with Worf doing the same as he accepts his friends into his circle. But they don’t talk about it. They don’t have any other scenes together discussing the transfer. What really pisses me or is that Riker *wasn’t* at Worf’s ceremony. Riker and Picard absolutely should have been there, and if not both: Riker should have been first in line. You know what would have been even better? If Riker chose to go to Worf’s thing *instead* of his dad’s fight, and that was where he made his decision.

[@aaronlea9559]

❤ the box, star trek was/is so refreshing/different compared to so many other shows. literally made the show for me

[@TassieDinkum90]

Pausing at 29 seconds to answer your initial question: honestly, I remember quite a bit about this episode. Kyle Riker is a mission briefing specialist who comes to inform Will about his new command (USS Aries) and its QUITE long-range deep space mission, and Will is (understandably) exceptionally cold and stand-off-ish with him after being abandoned by his Dad at 15. Pulaski is an old flame of Riker Snr's and she needs to deal with old feelings and why the two of them didn't work etc. But the thing I remember most is the Anbo-Jitsu, always thought that was an AWESOME idea for a martial art. This episode certainly isn't forgettable for me, but I do remember parts of it being rather.... drab, I think is the word. Edit at 1:10: I HAD forgotten that this was the Klingon painstiks episode though haha

[@maflipse]

I actually remembered this episode quite well and actually have good memories of it. I remember thinking it was pretty good, and having watched it again. I retain that opinion. It's pretty decent to me, apart from some cringe worthy moments.

[@EnvisionerWill]

When I did the "from memory" on this episode before, I apparently didn't remember at all that Worf's painstick ritual happened here (I'm sure I remembered the scene, just not what episode it came from). With what you point out here, I'm thinking of Worf being like "Well, I'm having my Klingon moment, but I'd better speak English too, so that my buddies here really understand exactly how much pain I'm in". XD

[@darkanimecommandersoto9992]

It wasn’t too long ago that I watched this episode, maybe a month ago or so. But the only thing I recall is the fight between Riker and his father at the end of the episode.

[@mb2000]

I have to disagree with you on the lack of tension in the “will Riker leave the Enterprise” plot. At the time the episode originally aired I could see it being absolutely plausible that Riker could leave the show. It’s not like a main character had been killed off part way through Season 1 and another left at the end of that season. Why couldn’t another leave part way through Season 2!?

[@penguinphysics]

You forgot the all important C-plot where something is wrong with the engines and it turns out that it's a sensor glitch. We needed this subplot about as much as a lion hunter needs his accordion...

[@tbk2010]

That plot was so important I forgot it was a thing while watching the episode!

[@TheRetrostorian]

To be fair something is wrong with either the engines or the drive core in 99% of episodes. Or it seems that way. La Forge gets moved to engineering so it's like they use it just to give him dialogue.

[@tylisirn]

What I remembered: Riker butts heads with his dad and ignores everything he says. Has that ridiculous ambojujitsu match and then everything's hunky dory somehow. And he commits career suicide by declining the promotion. I also remember the scene where Worf gets poked with cattle prods, but I wouldn't have remembered that it was in this episode. (I agree with the rumination, Worf saying some lines in English for the benefit of his friends was very nice touch.) I feel that Picard was somewhat underselling the Aries in his assessment. It was a deep space exploration vessel, THE prototypical mission of Starfleet: seek out new life and civilizations, boldly go where no one as gone before. A very independent command by its nature.

[@ideamaker]

A bad idea properly executed, is better than a good idea badly executed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@nemesisPhD]

What I remember before rewatching the episode: Riker's dad comes aboard, acts like a jerk, offers his son a promotion which Will Riker turns down out of hand, Jerk Dad and son have a silly pugel stick match where Jerk dad relies on his usual cheating move to win and adult Will calls him on it. I didn't recall the Worf day of ascension plot, or the engine glitch "plotlet". My personal thoughts on this episode: Firstly Kyle Riker was bad. A bad character who was badly executed and acted. It makes no sense to me that a civilian would be the Federations top military strategist, which is how I recall he was described. This guy, who has never served, is advising Starfleet admirals with decades of experience, on military strategy. That is a bit like getting someone with no medical training to be the top health advisor. Second he is not the kind of overbearing father figure I imagined from previous episodes where he was mentioned. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who lived in Alaska at all, he seems more like he grew up in a big cosmopolitan city not at a frontier as an outdoorsman. I realise 24th century Alaska could be very different but what is the point of even mentioning Alaska if all of earth is just a giant homogenous megacity culture? You would think even an arrogant jerk would understand that if they have had virtually no contact with someone since he was 15, they don't really know them well enough to predict how they will behave, let alone a "top strategist". But no Kyle is constantly going on about how well he knows Will, and what Will will do, and "you were always X", but this is not so much arrogant as crazy. Only a fool would be incapable of doubting their understanding of a person they have never known as an adult. Then the fakeness, I wasn't sure if that was just horrible acting or the character was this fake façade guy who just comes across as insincere all the time. Another reason he seems more like he comes from L.A. than Alaska. To cover the "how women talk" thing: I am a man, but I attend a sewing class where for a long time I was the only man in the room. I can tell you that regularly the women in the room would ignore my presence and start talking as though there were no men in the room. It was intensely uncomfortable for me, and yes they totally do that thing. "Men are stupid 'cos they are men". Only rarely, after man bashing for a few minutes, they would throw in a "no offence" my way, in a very sorrynotsorry way. I would always profess to have been so focussed on my sewing that I was not listening (since that is clearly what I was expected to do). So as an invisible guy in a room full of women I can confirm the realistic nature of the "girl talk". I did mention once that if the shoe were on the other foot and a group of men were talking about women in such a disparaging and generalised way it would be considered sexist. The Worf plot was less bad, but I agree that the bit where he collapsed and they just stand and look at him on the floor felt like a less satisfying end to the scene that the version Lore has suggested. Even Worf just getting up and looking them each in the eye to show appreciation would have been better. Ending with Worf on the ground almost felt to me like he had failed. Like the ceremony had precipitated the Worf effect.

[@Deus69xxx1]

riker's father being there, and the ambojitsu match were the only things i remembered about this. was really one of my least favorite episodes. on the other hand, the ambojitsu idea was always one of my favorites. blinded, using motion trackers to locate your opponent, and anticipating their moves based on whether you can hear that they found you or not. only problem with it, unless there is a ruleset for it, is how many options there are. you ever tried to anticipate what a person will do when you're both blind? almost always fails.

[@ShadowStoryteller]

To answer your question at the top of the video: The Riker men fight with whining sticks and Worf gets painsticks. On your thing on the Roddenberry Box...I disagree with Roddenberry to a point. Humans and conflict are so intertwined it's in our DNA. It's optimistic to believe that we are beyond interspecies conflict (I'm hopeful that we are by the 24th century) but the realist in me says that eliminating that part of our nature would lessen our experience of being human. With respects, we are still a violent species. We have an innate talent for war and pain and horrors in our darker nature. We also have a beauty and grace that can create works and songs that would be remembered for centuries. The human experience is to figure out the dark and the light and where we can coexist in the grey twilight.

[@williamozier918]

Time code 25:00. Your basic point is that Riker could have left the ship but stayed on the show. Strangely enough, the show Malcolm in the Middle did that expertly with the character of Francis. As I understand it the behind the scenes is that they used Francis cut away stories to padding when their run times fell short. So TNG could have done that. Say, Riker gets sent back to work on a Starbase on Earth. So when your A plot runs short we just cut back to Riker on Earth breaking the rules to make sure the Enterprise's message gets through or something.

[@timriggins70]

Troi's judgemental attitude in humans did bother me when you consider her relationship to her mother.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

funny thing, I never noticed the Riker plot as anything significant if you said Klingon ritual with painsticks, or the "I think you will like this surprise Warf..... I see" quote, I would know the story immediately, to me, it's one of the great Warf - Gordi interaction episodes in fact, it's probably on my 5 most favorite episodes list for all of Next-Gen ST.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Family Fejd on the Enterprise !

[@reyjusuf]

Yoroshiku Onegaishimasu!!!!!!

[@Enkarashaddam]

Yeah that's what I remember

[@CyndisKrist]

"This fight is all we have left," Riker's father told him as they prepared to settle their differences with physical violence. I guess it was, since the two men couldn't discuss their complex feelings over coffee. But I think the ending was forced. It would've been more realistic if they parted ways with Will considering the potential for forgiveness, even if he wasn't sure he'd ever get there.

[@williamozier918]

This episode to me highlights a huge problem I have with creativity on the part of the ST writers. This problem cannot be blamed on the Rodenberry box either. The ONLY way the writers of TNG know how to do family drama is with bitter dysfunction that crosses a line to some form of mental and/or physical abuse. The problem is they aren't doing it on purpose. It's when lazy writing gets out of hand. Whenever it's a 'family' episode their only go to is to heap on arguments for laughs and/or drama. When you put it together though it makes for very disturbing characters in the 'utopia' of Earth. I will list some of them below in my own reply below.

[@williamozier918]

In this episode we realize that Riker's father was knowingly using martial arts practice as a guise to deal with his wife's death by consciously abusing his child. He then basically abandoned Will when Will was 15 because at the age Will was able to fight back.

[@williamozier918]

What the hell was up with Picard's father? I can understand a Dad being surly, but jeeze oh Pete. It rubbed right off into Robert as well.

[@williamozier918]

Every Troi family episode involves Deanna storming out of a room crying and screaming right out in front of EVERYONE important. We have seen several times just the thought of her mother coming makes Troi have to do anti-anxiety plexing. Oh, and her mother sold her into an arranged marriage when Deanna was five years old, to a human no less.

[@williamozier918]

Never mind Data's family reunions.

[@williamozier918]

Worf literally sent his kid away and never talked to him again. Worf didn't even invite Alexander to his traditional Klingon wedding to Jadzia!

[@EnvisionerWill]

I saw this episode a month or three ago, so I remember it pretty well. Riker's up for a new command, his father Kyle shows up, they clearly don't like each other but everyone else likes Kyle, Kyle flirts with every woman on the ship (including Deanna, who he knows is into his son!), and particularly has a history with Pulaski, also a little with Guinan I think; it's extremely vague what the hell Kyle is doing there, Riker openly despises his dad and is very prickly about doing the minimum possible professional duty toward him, eventually they fight each other in Anbo-Jitsu, Troi and Pulaski whine about how stupid men are, and in the end the Rikers make up a little because it turns out Kyle was cheating. Let's see how I did.

[@ieatvirgins]

I need more American Gladiator styled future martial arts in ridiculous outfits.

[@resurrectedstarships]

BIG glowing fighting sticks and pain sticks, i just remember a lot of sticks that men have to deal with to prove their manhood; thats all. :D

[@resurrectedstarships]

I also think Gene Roddenberry didnt really study history enough to have a sober view of human nature. There are times when humans have been prosperous, but those civilizations have always fallen due to petty selfishness and a general lack of cooperation, and I don't think a few hundred years is going to change that; a few tens of thousands of years...MAYBE.

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

I remember Worf's arc primarily, and a little of Riker and his hate of his dad - maybe. Will vs Kyle Riker - they should have revealed something more about their conflict with each of their meetings as they went along. It is eventually, but for the first few times we don't get any reveal of any significance. What I found silly was they reach an impasse where they resort to the Akibojitsu-thing as a full-on fight. Troi and Pulaski object to its violence, its barbarism - and then what happens? They come to blows with giant cotton buds and armor, no bloodletting potential - and blind! It's basically a reality show Gladiators style. Is that the barbarism that is so objectionable? Gee. Plus, there happens to be such an arena on board deck 12? And their Japanese is deplorable - 'Yorosheekooo On-a-guy-shi-ma-soo'. Ugh. otoh, the kanji character in the centre is the character for 'star', which is at least something of a nice touch. Troi and Pulaski's conversation 'Pht - guys.' Well, it can and does happen. It annoys me when females belittle the fact that guys sometimes go to fisticuffs to resolve things, but I also feel it is something girls - some girls - do. Sure, not getting it, I can understand, but to be honest, guys have their ways and girls have theirs, speaking generally here. I think this scene does reflect something that happens. I felt Kyle never really had a lot of feeling I could believe. Worf's plot - I also felt the friends who gave Worf his 10th Anniversary coming-of-age ceremony were left standing there with no gesture of help or affirmation to give. It needed a satisfying little bit of closure, Worf with a smile or friends helping him up or something. Instead we get a third-hand comment on the bridge that Worf was very happy. I liked the doctor's acting in this episode. I found it hard to believe she never cared to mention to Riker she was once his dad's beloved until now. It never came up? Well, I guess it never did. Big thing not to mention though. I felt Riker needed to explain that he no longer wanted to become a captain because he resolved his issues with his father. Or something believable. Why would he NOT become a captain on a dangerous mission? I was left not feeling his reasons were made known or good enough. Say something like 'this is my place here, Enterprise is the best there is' or something. An episode that is fairly good, let down by a few flaws. The connecting theme of family is not linked well enough to me - Rikers to me is a father-son thing. Worf is straight family, though right at the beginning Wesley does mention fathers (not the best acting). I missed that link somehow.

What did I remember about this episode...? NERF BATS!

[@corssecurity]

I would add that Picard was in command of the Star Gazer for twenty years and now the Flagship a Fleet Captain if you will. Hasn't Picard turned down a promotion to Admiral? In universe he was offered the chance to be a professor to exceptionally gifted young men and women who society rejects our of fear and...... Oh wait, I meant Star Fleet Academy. Because we know how much Picard loves children.

[@mr51406]

Meh. I remembered that it’s “the one Riker’s dad shows up” and that they resolved their problems. And that cockamamie futuristic martial arts thing. What I didn’t remember how uncathartic, insignificant, artificial and sudden the supposed resolution scene was, how empty the dialogue was. They dislike each other then suddenly at the x minute mark they don’t… From personal experience the differences between a father and son is an ongoing process. The goal isn’t “resolution” it’s to keep the process going. I also had a dad who was incapable of showing affection. Finally I learned I didn’t want him to say “I love you,” all I wanted was to keep having conversations because that’s how we connected. The only good scenes are with Pulaski. Muldaur makes even banal dialogue with a bland actor sound interesting. Awesome, compelling actress!

[@GlenwingThink]

I just watched it in preparation like 2 weeks ago and I already forgot most of it :P

[@gallendugall8913]

I'm going to disagree with the, "They just didn't do that on television in the late '80s early '90s" defense of TNG. They did. Famously arcs were such a big trend that MST3K, a puppet show, was ordered by executives to put in a story arc. Because everything had a story arc. Audiences expected, and they attempted several times, to put a story arc in TNG. It never happened because they never hired anyone to write it. Writers would write an episode with threads that they hoped would be picked up for an arc and then they would hired to write another stand alone episode. Why? Money. TNG never made much money as it was and an arc would never have paid off what it would cost to produce.

[@tbk2010]

I remember the pain sticks. That's about it. And I knew it was this episode only because of the preview image on the bluray menu.

[@harpercole5321]

The Power Rangers fight scene is the main bit that I remember. that and Worf shouting "BEGONE!!!! ... sir". This is the first Star Trek episode with no hint of jeopardy, as far as I can recall. A character piece, but not a very good one - the S2 lack of polish shows again. Like you, I found the Father/Son resolution pretty weak. Riker finds out his Dad's a cheat and then suddenly starts respecting him? It needed something more.

[@nascosta1965]

Kind of skipping around watching these. Trying to find one that I disagree with so I can be sure we aren't the same person! The big point I agreed with for you was the ceremony for the right of ascension. The ending of that scene was almost painful to watch, for how long we sat watching Worf on the ground I was just waiting for someone to do something... anything!

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

definitely one of the like episodes for me! The feminine c plot, whilst preachy and questionable, did do something for the characters... I had little enjoyment of the Riker plot, though, that again, shows Riker's being is linked to the ship, not to a career or Starfleet not sure that it sells for me, but.... he is turned from a shadow of J.L.Picard into a Janeway. the exploration of the contrast between being family and understanding one, is what sold it for me.... his brothers/comrades/family, are incapable of understanding the Klingon side and need, but they are still there to respect it, and do there utmost for it - and Riker's father, come to think of it, also in his wrong & low way, trying to help his son achieve his dreams (that he is incapable of processing) how many modern parents can do that? is that not a future family utopia to so many....?

[@Dogshow9000]

Completely agree with regard to Kyle Riker. He was so blah. The doctor really did a good job convincing the audience that they had a lot of history together. To be honest, this episode put me to sleep (literally).

[@leifkhas7425]

I actually liked this episode ok. The actor for Kyle Riker could have done a lot better! The 3rd plot about some minor engine alignment spec was really stupid tho and didn't hit home at all! I did like the Ritual Scene with Worf but the scenes before could have built up to it better! They didn't reach out a hand to him because that would have been a show of weakness and good on them for knowing this and NOT helping him up! The whole idea that humans are evolved and now don't have any conflict is completely ridiculous! A certain amount of conflict, as long as it isn't taken to the extreme, is normal and actually healthy. Just because their ancestors invented warp drive and replicators and live in a post-scarcity economy doesn't mean family dynamics, friendships and romances won't be deeply flawed. Children will still be raised by flawed parents. Sibling will still fight with each other. And your childhood is a blueprint for the rest of your life psychologically speaking! I understand that this is the flagship of StarFleet and these are supposed to be the best of the best! But no amount of evolution is going to produce flawless humans with flawless personalities. For example Just the mentality to be a great engineer is going to make your mind be more interested in things than people. And personality traits for being a good captain include being cold and detached sometimes!

[@1300l]

I remember i hated Riker father, i hate Riker too (on this episode was evident). And Worf B-plot was better than the A plot. I also don't think Rodenbery is part of the problem. If they don't know how to execute the episode it's the entire staff fault. His vision was different but not impossible to execute. That episode, with the Romulan ambassador pretending to be a Vulcan one was quite like this one in concept. But executed flawless (and no, there wasn't a threat of the week, they even didn't fight the romulans). I get people don't like his Box.. but for me that's Star Trek. That's why even if they are good shows i can't stand DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, JJ Movies and Discovery. I miss the original Concept of Star trek.. Hell i even quite like Season 1 and 2 better than 5, 6 and 7. For me the real reason this episode is bad isn't Rodenbery Concepts and "box"... but actually how Riker and his father have no reason for that conflict. How it's borring, they never openup with each other they just have the stupid fight. It's two assholes jealous of each other for me. Not to mention that Riker give no real good reason to not be a captain. This always bug me. He know he will never be the enterprise captain, even if Picard dies, a more experienced captain will take over, not the rookie Riker. So yea, form e the issue isn't Rodenbery box but how Riker is a douche and such a bad character... as well as his father About the Fight... for me it's a script and execution problem, not a Rodenbery box.. Let's think about the episode Family (or Brothers) where picard go back home after Best of Both Words... Picard and his brother are the same as Riker and his father. Even finishing with a fight with a "I love you" Momment... But it was PERFEC in excecution and still inside the "Rodenbery Box". Worf Thing, i loved it... i also think that it isn't too early for that. I know people who bound in less than a year in such a way. It was pure from Georgy, loved it. Polaski and Troy testosterone hate was stupid

[@andrewthorne3570]

The martial art (anbo-jyutsu) was total crap. 'The ultimate evolution if the martial arts' my arse