LORGAR CHEAP SHOTS ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN

[@randomcenturion7264]

The Emperor didn't want Lorgar to think of him as a God. So he saw him as the Devil instead.

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

Brilliant observation

[@nowhereman6019]

No, he saw the Chaos Gods ad devils, but believed that they were the only ones deserving of worship.

[@Equinox2149]

@@nowhereman6019 I honestly don't see how he came to that conclusions with all the horrifying rituals and demons...

[@timcusack9388]

@@Equinox2149 Read Aurelian, it's where Lorgar goes on his Pilgrimage and comes in contact with Eldar "Demi Gods", explore the galaxy deities and what not. He is of course accompanied by a daemon prince. But in short, he realized the Chaos Gods are exactly what they advertise and hides nothing while Emperor is deceitful and will manipulate the whole of mankind to achieve his goals. Hence he rather be a slave to truth than a follower to lies.

[@milankolarski8876]

Lorgar needed to believe that His Father is a God. Because he made them all so powerful. That is why he lost his mind and thought his father betrayed him. Little boys always think that their fathers are the best men on this Planet called Earth. Like Americans say:"Daddy issues". That is what happened with Lorgar.

[@Galacalactus]

"Is your tantrum concluded, Lorgar?" Lol, why is this so funny.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

It's because one of the most boring Primarchs told a joke Leman Russ in Wolfsbane talking to Malcador about Rogal Dorn: "only Guilliman and Perturabo are more boring then him".

[@Galacalactus]

@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 Yeah lol. But I can also just imagine Lorgar stomping up to the big blue bum and swapping him round the head with his stick.

[@atsukunisumeragi1967]

Because Roboute should have taken a 2nd hit for disrespecting Lorgar immediately after being told not too, but got away with it.

[@atsukunisumeragi1967]

@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 your Chapter has a night club in it's Fortress-Monastery, you Codex-semi-compliant, what makes you think it is a recent installation or trend ?

[@mphoramathe1801]

Maybe it's funny because Lorgars tantrum has yet to be concluded after 10 000 years? A tantrum that big could easily trigger tantrums in all sorts of other gene forged super beings. It's gravity coalescing those together until a whole galaxy is more than just metaphorically set ablaze for 10 millenia. It's ridiculous, but the more i think about it... the more that seems like Lorgars true gift

[@Tiglath-Pileser3]

Something commonly taught to managers: Praise publicly, critique privately. I guess The Emperor never took those classes. I had initially thought that Guilliman was the worst choice for this encounter. But his restraint here makes me reconsider. Would the Wolf or the Lion have let that strike go unanswered? This is one of those low EQ moments from The Emperor. In a cold, logical way, I can understand the Ultramarines being there. It's a clear statement, showing what Big E expects his legions to be. He is saying "Do as they do, be as they are." But the Word Bearers are more fanatical than logical. They're not automatons, that can simply be fed a new program. If an authority figure tells a fanatic that the fanatic's rival is right, the fanatic will no longer view that figure as an authority.

[@mwch4554]

James Abbgy Ultramarines are the perfect soldier any army would want. And many don’t understand that mindset.

[@MrTolgarion]

I believe the Lion would have, he showed restraint when Roboute pushed him against the wall in Unremembered Empire......though that was during the heresy and the loyalists couldn't afford to be petty with one another while the galaxy burned. I would like to think that either Russ or the Lion would have shown restraint simply because everybody views Lorgar as the pussy amongst Primarchs......you don't hit girls that simple ;)

[@blackmage665]

@@mwch4554 disagree, the ultramarines are fanatical in their own ways. Mayve HH Custodes are a better attempt. both individual warriors without peer and soldiers of unwavering duty.

[@peanusbenis5631]

The Emperor did, at first. Lorgar ignored the Emperor, so he was made an example of. It was also a display for the rest of the Imperium to witness, since there were Emperor cults cropping up everywhere.

[@bobloerakker7010]

haha the wolf? He would never ever stand for getting sucker punched.

[@AuramiteEX]

Guilliman has often burned his traitor brothers with a sharp one liner.

[@celebral_pelosi]

>marvel reddit humor weaw is this super le wholesome and muhumuhumuh postironic chungus? :O

[@Amatsaru29]

In Dark Imperium: Plague Wars, Guilliman literally blames himself for the Heresy, looking back on the razing of Monarchia as the first stage. Plague Wars highlights the conflict between Guilliman and the eclesiarchy, thus reminding him of Lorgar almost constantly.

[@timcusack9388]

Yeah, 41k Guilliman has become very likeable. Everything came crashing down on him and it was finally nice to see as a reader, for a Primarch to admit "I was wrong"

[@giorgigogolashvili3097]

Yup, I used to dislike Guilliman but now he's actually getting some character development and I'm liking him more and more.

[@HaloFTW55]

Ever since 30k and being actually depicted in 40k, Guilliman has been very likable. I can actually openly be a Smurfs fan now. XIII!!!!

[@craynak]

I need them to produce the audio book for the Plague Wars!

[@natesal5037]

@@emperorconstantine1.361 The heresy happened because Lorgar was a moron and Angron was too pussy to kill himself

[@neilleo86]

Big E could've handled this better. He knows how Lorgar was raised and how much faith meant to him. Combine that with Primarch genetics, charisma and smooth oration, Lorgar is easily one of the most dangerous and underestimated of his sons.

[@MrUrthor]

But still.... #BlameLorgar

[@neilleo86]

@@MrUrthor I used to despise Lorgar and thought he was weak and shallow. After reading his novels, I find that he is actually one of the more intriguing Primarchs, and becomes a rather potent psyker after his time in the warp. Did chaos unlock his true potential? Even Magnus was impressed by his new found abilities.

[@MrUrthor]

@@neilleo86Fact: Not to dispute or diminish the impact/importance of Lorgar's story - but since Big E knew the flaws of all the Primarchs (hell, he made them), I wonder if this isn't all part of an overarching plan. I've been watching Luetin's 'The Emperor of Man' series and it seems like Big E would have planned around the issues he was building into his creations. I'm even starting to wonder if it was truly 'the ruinous powers' that warped the tiny primarchs out of the lab and into the greater galaxy. If such prescience is possible (and GW takes advantage of such a retcon), then day-um.... that would be impressive.

[@carlroyle3055]

Yeah I reckon I would agree with you on that score.

[@bryanskscion2229]

@@MrUrthor Think of the Chaos gods and their powers? Like the so-called Tzeentch of change that can see the past, present and future as well as any possibility both real and imagined. How do you outsmart and out maneuver something like that? The brute force of the Great Crusade as well as the prophetic Espionage of the alien Cabal was doomed to failure. I think The Emperor has something up his sleeve and Is using misdirection.

[@Leivve]

If the emperor himself did it, with 0 ultramarine involvement, it would have been far better, though still an F tier solution. Best idea I can think of is, have a 1 on 1 with Lorgar, and force him to take a sword that can do actual critical damage to the emperor, and force Lorgar to strike him with it, dealing a very serious wound. Showing off the emperor is both mortal, and a physical representation for the wound Lorgar inflicts on him by calling him a god.

[@valurogers99]

Thas good

[@jkgf4671]

Lorgar upon seeing the wound would still said that he is a god because only this "blessed" weapon was able to do something to the Emperor.

[@nataliealphonse4634]

Yeah if this was a custodes emperor job I genuinely don't think Kor could have swayed him to take the pilgrimage, he wouldn't feel so insulted

[@bullbegger2281]

I love how Lorgar's character evolves over the books, despite starting off as the weakest Primarch he's not afraid to engage his brothers in combat, when Corax is Slaughtering the Gal Vorbak before they're able to change into their daemon forms Logar jumps in to protect them despite Kor Phaeron pleading with him not to because Corax will kill him. We then seeing him grow in power after Istvaan, to where here can survive multiple point blank hits from a Titan (despite Horus saying it should of killed him) being able to match Roboute G in combat (even with half his mind occupied focusing the warp song) and even matching a Daemon Prince Fulgrim in battle. By far one of the best story arcs imo.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

Lorgar almost kills Fulgrim twice about 10 days after the Dropsite Massacre in the Novella: Aurelian because Lorgar knew almost immediatly that Fulgrim was currently possessed at this point in time and the other 7 traitor Primarchs are somewhat shocked when Lorgar suddenly smashes Fulgrim into the nearest wall.

[@adaeptzulander2928]

Plus he took down an Avatar of Khaine single-handedly.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

@@adaeptzulander2928 The Avatar of Khaine that Lorgar fought wasn't at full power, but Lorgar did manage to beat An'ggrath the Unbound while in the Eye of Terror.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

Lorgar was purposefully inhibiting his psyhic powers

[@BonzoDrummer]

He is the best Primarch. #XVII

[@LCliffhanger]

you should cover that segment in the book betrayer, when Lorgar is on Nuceria and he see's Guilliman, theres a great part were he remarks that he was wrong about guilliman and felt a sense of guilt for his betrayal of guilliman, he thought guilliman hated him before but realised when he sore his face that he was wrong, but now guilliman truly hated him

[@wolflordrho]

I certainly will be covering that book too

[@gunslinger1824]

Wolf Lord Rho when?

[@AdeptKing]

That was a nice scene. Lorgar realizing Guilliman was just doing his job and guilt tripped him with a single glance.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Bullshit, Girlyman took perverse pleasure in helping to raze Lorgar’s ideal city. Nothing anybody can say will ever convince me that Girlyman only put a political face on in his “I wish it wasn’t me that was there”. Hashtag BLAME GIRLYMAN FOR STARTING THE HERESY!!!

[@ianharrison5758]

@@emperorconstantine1.361 it’s ok, Matt Ward isn’t writing G man or the ultramarines anymore. His shitty writing can’t hurt you. I have to assume the hate came from that. Read more of his recent stories. He’s a LOT more likeable now. Also, BLAME THE EMPEROR FOT THE HERESY

[@izonker]

I gotta say,,,, I kinda sympathize with Lorgar here,,, Just speaking personally, one of the quickest ways of setting me off when emotionally charged is for someone to speak and act like Guilliman was during this, To quote Chris Rock "I'm not saying he shoulda ,,,,,but i understand"

[@sarethuskami5082]

Here's a question: What would calm you down in when "emotionally charged"? What could Guilliman have done that would calm down Lorgar? I really can't think of anything.

[@kelman727]

Guilliman actually did feel a measure of regret, and felt the Monarchia incident should have been dealt with differently.

[@nosignal7156]

Great, that means Guilliman has already become a better ruler than his father. It was an expensive lesson to learn however.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Bullshit, he took perverted pleasure in this action! I have 0 sympathy for Girlyman and Calth was totally Rowboat’s fucking fault!! 🖕Girlyman!!!

[@JessePatrick-zc8ng]

@@emperorconstantine1.361 That’s not true at all. Like absolutely false. Heretic.

[@stuart2547]

Their realtionship develops more in "Know no Fear" and I wish these two weren't brother who hated one another, they could've done good things together. The Statesmen and the Philosopher, they could've made for some good imperium

[@TheMymovie]

I won't lie, imagining the sound of that mace slapping Guilliman silly brings a smile to my face.

[@KrootX]

Good thing Lorgar got a power boost after he joined chaos. When they meet again, they trade blows well.

[@jfkshouldofducked4348]

Hahaha the only true smack logar makes during the heresy is a bro smack that goes unanswered bc gman knows what a waste logar is

[@Sergio8897V]

@@jfkshouldofducked4348 he better enjoy it because it’s not long after that he can’t even block Angron’s blows without being pushed back

[@user-xk9gw1gf8c]

ADB did a great job on this Book, I am no Word Bearer fan but this is one of the best books in the series. Best line in this book is right at the end from the silent Custodian "I always hated you Xaphen". 100 Ultramarines leveled gun barrels at 100,000 Word Bearers. This day ended with both Primarchs resenting the actions of the Emperor. Guilliman would put this aside, Lorgar would start a civil war.

[@tulsibeepat3453]

That he did Betrayer has more of this story

[@user-xk9gw1gf8c]

@@tulsibeepat3453 Betrayer is a good book as well. ADB wrote this one and did something most authors cannot. He made all three major factions (Word Bearers, World Eaters and Ultramarines) look competent all at once. Also bonus points for Erebus (one of the most hated characters in the entire series) getting severely beaten up at the end of the book.

[@bryanskscion2229]

@@user-xk9gw1gf8c That's one of the biggest problems with the entire 40K series and a lot of their stories. When they have to show how badass or dangerous the main character is they completely dumb down or weaken the opposing factions characters.

[@bryanskscion2229]

@Roargasm Well the character knew that he only had moments left to live and he had served valiantly for a long time. He was just utterly sick of putting up with the word bearers crap.

[@mgtowdadYouTubeSucksCoxks]

@Johnhenry It being out of their character is something that is supposed to speak volumes of why they were doing it, and it should let you know how that individual felt at that moment. They had such a flood of emotion that meant so much to them they violated one of the most secret tenants of their organizations. That's how strongly that individual felt in that moment, and you should feel it too.

[@patricklioneljonson2747]

Just finished "A Thousand Sons", "First Heretic" is literally on my dresser, ready to be opened. I'm new to WH. Only been in it since last Sept. Of 2018. I've read lots of books and watched hundreds of lore videos. The universe is unparalleled by other Sci-fi universes. Keep it up Rho!

[@shanemcdowell3628]

I think the Horus Heresy is a great place to start, especially with "The First Heretic". It gives a better insight to how the Astartes act, how they deal with emotions, and how different they were with their gene-sires. This book also gives a great intro into the Primarchs themselves, with a lot of appearances from some of the underrated ones like Curze or Manus. You'll love it, even if the Word Bearers aren't your thing.

[@patricklioneljonson2747]

@@shanemcdowell3628 looking forward to it! Thanks.

[@RD-999.M41]

Great Video as always, just great. I believe that Guilliman knew that Logar was gonna do something, thats why he unfolded his arms and waited for it. Knowing his brother was deeply hurt, his rage would need to be channeled somewhere. Guilliman knew that he would be the focus of his anger. I love it.

[@alexthebassist23]

I really love the symbolism of the imperial aquilla on guilimans chest literally split in half, with a giant crack running down its body. A really nice metaphor about how that moment, that strike split the imperium in two.

[@Uploaded1995]

That hit right there shows the reason Guilliman was chosen for the job. He's one of the few that would take a hit like that and very calmly deflate Lorgar and defuse the situation in spite of it.

[@NoMayonaisse]

Always viewed Lorgar as one of the undervalued primarchs. There’s a whole lot of win with him and I look forward to him stepping into 40K in force at some point

[@Tacoguy1000]

Isn't he being daemon-hunted by his prince-of-crow brother at the moment?

[@neilnightblade]

#BlameLorgar

[@CanWeGoBackRIPhiphop]

Question to you is: Who undervalued him? His legion captured at an extremely slow rate, always making sure the populace was 100% in his cult, and didn't listen to what the Emperor or Malc said. He wasn't a great fighter, or really a great strategist, or really anything else. He started shining when he embraced chaos and sucker punched everyone. His value showed when he attacked Guilliman, and was sent home for his troubles- after taking too long to do anything important.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

HIs legion captured at a slow rate because lorgar didn't want to be a conqueror, he aimed for diplomacy and the majority of sector compliance he got was through peaceful means saving billions of lives in the process. He was a great strategist managing to leverage his advantage of surprise to utterly devastate the overwhelming numbers of ultramarines at calth while creating the largest warp storm the imperium ever seen.

[@kevinjavier3600]

If the emperor was a boxing promoter he would've made it a killing. Like seriously! His sons have the best sibling rivalries. Like Dorn and Perturabo. Magnus and Leman. Guilliman and Mortarion. Konrad and Vulkan. Fulgrim and Sanguinius.

[@geiger987654321]

Take a read on the post i just made. Not the same list but similar. (Same video comment section)

[@darthgorthaur258]

@@geiger987654321 I just read that list before this comment an thought to myself how it's funny how people see it different depending on which books an sources they have read and how they interpret them, which always makes for very cool interpretation as well as very personal ones.

[@geiger987654321]

Here is my list on loyal primarchs/and their legion's most hated counterpart traitor legion : Rogal Dorn vs Perturabo Ferrus Manus vs Fulgrim ( were best friends) Russ vs magnus Robute Guilliman vs Lorgar Sanguinius vs Horus (were best friends) Lion vs konrad Jahaghatai vs Mortarion {Ambiguous match ups} Corax vs Alpharius ( the whole messing with raven guard gene seed was a big deal also drop site massacre) Vulcan vs Angron(ok very speculative: although no one on one legion conflicts. The Salamanders chapter did command prevention of a ritual to summon Angron in Armageddon. So i am sure there is a special kind of hate, when you do something like that. so if the two fight during the siege i think that would be pretty cool. ) What do you guys think about this list?

[@kevinjavier3600]

If I may add some too: Jaghatai Khan vs Fulgrim Lion vs Leman Russ Vulkan vs Konrad Curze Sanguinius vs Fulgrim (the whole "whose the best legion when it comes to perfection" yada2x) Leman vs Sanguinius (we never get to see these two fight since I think Leman thought he would never out best Sanguinius) Angron vs Leman Russ (the first primarch vs primarch pre-heresy) Perturabo vs Corvus Corax (the whole incident where Perturabo called Corvus a coward since his legion wouldn't fight an out-of-depth tactic in their field back during the crusade)

[@geiger987654321]

@@kevinjavier3600 all really great match ups. I had to read this list twice because i read Jagahatai vs Fulgrim I immediately thought of Jahaghatai's burn to Fulgrim at Ulanor. Hahaha

[@bryanskscion2229]

That's one of the things that ticks me off about my favorite Legion Raven guard. They say how great The Raven guard are at infiltration and stealth. Yet in the vast majority of stories the Raven guard are easily outsmarted by common cultists, upstart aliens the (sodding Tau) or even The World-Eater's. They go about making the enemies of the chapter completely the wrong way because they end up making the Raven guard look like a bunch of bumbling idiots that know nothing of deception or basic tenants of War

[@geiger987654321]

@@bryanskscion2229 it could be something about the poor writing on gw's part. But from my readings I notice the raven guard rarely commit a full force in a lot of engagements, they are also known to always work with other chapters if not reluctantly... there is examples of this in both 30k and 40k. However, Ravenguard are also very undermanned (recruitment process is slow) and always seemed to be placed in odd situations where it isn't favorable for them to begin with. So them being outsmarted could be the combination of being outnumbered and their veterans being strained even for an astarte standards of service. Going back to the few writers, I feel like this legion has the same bad luck as iron hands, imperial fist and slamanders where they are more of acceptable lost to the writers over the years. Which is sorta bullshit. All in all, I hope that the return of corax will flesh out the more bad ass aspects of the raven guard.

[@bryanskscion2229]

@@geiger987654321 I don't mind them facing overwhelming numbers or desperate circumstances, just so long as they portrayed The Raven guard as the so called masters of Guerrilla warfare that they're touted to be.

[@tulsibeepat3453]

The continuation to this to me happens in Betrayer ,Lorgar realizes that Gulliemon never had any problems of any kind with Him till the 17th started running amok through the five hundred worlds and that process was to ; create the Ruinstorm and let Angron achieve Daemonhood at the cost of billions of lives ( good deal a two for one🤣!)

[@michaelhowell2326]

Oh man, the patience and restraint of Guilliman is beyond admirable. If the Word Bearers had pulled the trigger on the Ultramarines, it would have been their end. The whole legion was in one place with orbital guns trained on them. Malcador would have protected Guilliman's life from all the carnage around them if he had to.

[@LouisKing995]

michael howell Not necessarily. The word bearers entire fleet was in orbit, and it would far outweigh the ships that Girlyman brought. The whole WB legion was there remember.

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@LouisKing995 I don't think so. We never really find out the forces that the Ultramarines had in orbit and it wouldn't take all that much focused fire from an orbiting ship to reduce the WB to a greasy smoking crater. Not to mention the fact that Malcador, the custodes and possibly even the Emperor himself were there at Guilliman's side. Game over.

[@LouisKing995]

michael howell Malcador and the emperor were there, but not necessarily with their entire fleets, that would have been a crowded high orbit, not to mention, if they had accompanied girlyman with their entire retinues, that would have tipped off Lorgar early that something was amiss. All we know is that Lorgar had his entire legion with him, and with his limited conquests, he could afford to do so. We don’t know how many marines Guilliman had, but with the ultramarines extensive presence in the crusade, it would be unlikely they could withdraw all their available marines to squat on one planet. Also, if we assume the word beaters have naval superiority, then glassing then glassing the planet wouldn’t be as straightforward.

[@michaelhowell2326]

@@LouisKing995 I'll buy that scenario. Not bad. But I don't think the Emperor ever went far without a hell of an honor gaurd and extra security, not to mention security details for a primarch and the Lord Regent.

[@LouisKing995]

michael howell I would agree 9 times out of 10. But in this instance such an honour guard would inevitably tip Lorgar off that something was amiss, yet we see from the book that the presence of both Malcador and the Emperor was a complete surprise. I think Big E didn’t want to get involved unless he had to, so he probably came with one or two of his best ships secreted in amongst Guiliman’s fleet, and his psychic presence shielded. Unless the emperor showed up at the last minute with his entire fleet BUT again, I think the Word Bearers would have detected the approaching warp signatures of such a massive fleet and informed Lorgar long before the teleportation beacon first appeared.

[@JohnnyHardCastle1]

HH books from Guilliman's perspective show that he absolutely hated being ordered to raise Monarchia. Guilliman didn't like Lorgar, but he didn't hate him and loathed that his legion was chosen to deliver this humiliation upon him.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

Almost half of the brother primarchs was disgusted with what happened in monarchia.

[@2012Ascenscion]

Guilliman should and could have said SOMETHING to his brother. If he had even shown the slightest bit of compassion for the mentally shattered Lorgar, who just had his entire belief structure and world view shattered, he could have potentially halted the first fall to chaos.

[@sarethuskami5082]

Problem is that Guilliman is one of the ones who shattered Lorgar. ANYTHING Guilliman said to Lorgar (compassionate or otherwise) would have just angered Lorgar more.

[@ironduke5058]

@@sarethuskami5082 Honestly yes. Any words he would've said would've been turned back around and taken as insult. Lorgar was incensed, being cold was the best option. The only middle ground

[@pspicer777]

You know I would have resented this as much as L. He loved his father and was doing his utmost to honor him. To be treated like this and to have your works destroyed with no recourse or warning is unreasonable.

[@toddolson4614]

But there were warnings to the Word Bearers. Logar's zeal and worship of the Emporer cloud his judgment of listening to the warnings provided. His picture of what's best and I know better than my father and I will keep going, is what got him in trouble. I will second the comments on Kor. Imagine the punishment that Lorgar took from Kor growing up with no response given just obedience, to turn around and disobey the Emporer's warnings leads me to believe the warnings were blocked or downplayed by Kor or the lack of change was justified/provoked by Kor

[@romancenturion1086]

Lorgar Went against what the Emperor wanted to spread, which is science over religion and thus he was wrong. However, the emperor dealt with it in a very "stupid" way. I'm not saying that Lorgar did not deserve punishment, but this was a mistake regardless of the Hours Heresy.

[@GameLoot]

Agreed. I think the Emperor should have tasked Lorgar's legion alongside a compliant legion (and preferably one who's Primarch Lorgar respects) would have been the best coarse to show Lorgar what is exactly expected of him and changing his ways over time without shaming him too much. It would not hurt the crusade much to have two legions coordinating for a couple campaigns.

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Roman Centurion funny thing though, religious faith in the Emperor has the power to resist Deamons... Emps fucked up by not establishing Logar as THE greatest preacher that could have united The Imperium even more so than just going atheist and trying to starve the Chaos gods

[@celebral_pelosi]

le wholesome science has to be trusted blindly because religion is le bad (religion ofc meaning Christianity and Christianity only (the safe edgy option)) >fedora: tipped >seminal duct: snipped >funko pops: purchased >yep, it's reddit time

[@John-dp3lo]

The Emperor couldn't have handled this any worse. Out of everything the Emperor has done this action the most really makes you question his wisdom.

[@timcusack9388]

"The Last Church" really showed how arrogant The Emperor really is.

[@nosignal7156]

The Emperor lacks Guilliman's approach to practicality.

[@vincebradleysolante7895]

Your videos help me sleep at night, thank you

[@Normalguy1690]

Blíður Vindur thank god I’m not the only one listening to his book reading is so relaxing

[@nvtnvt9617]

Same

[@IronFather66]

Rho, I enjoy the hell out of listening to your readings and analysis of the 40k lore. I could envision you working for GW in a capacity like the Talking Dead show after The Walking Dead. A podcast interviewing GW authors and such. Good job!

[@wolflordrho]

Now there’s an idea! 😁 thanks for the support!

[@Azzurian]

The biggest mistake, i believe, Emperor made, was not checking Kor Phaeron before giving Lorgar his Legion. The seeds of Chaos were put by Kor Phaeron in Lorgar long before Lorgar met the Emperor (Lorgar novella, Primarch Series).

[@serlistogiette4168]

Jeez, that opening scene where Lorgar was in pure despair... that familiar, anguished howl... no words were spoken, no expression to be seen, but I felt it nonetheless. The greatest pain is when you can do nothing but howl in despair at everything, for everything. Like a keg punctured by a nail the misery shall flow pure and plentiful.

[@redasylum]

Lorgar is a Latent Psyker already touched by Chaos so Malcador would be in alot more trouble than he realises.

[@randomcenturion7264]

Agreed. Everyone seems to be shitting on Lorgar, but they seem to forget that, when he fully embraced Chaos, his ability as a fighter went from mediocre to faith-fueled-killing-machine.

[@jamesknighton4489]

We march for Macragge! Great vid brother priest. Keep doing the emperor work

[@theredshore103]

I’m not a fan of the legion, but this was honestly one of my favorite books. Keep up the awesome content!

[@CptFoolKillah]

The Big E should not have embarassed Lorgar in front of his troops. Should of been a small council meeting to handle the punishment and way forward.

[@GameLoot]

I said this as well but I have been told, by other this was not the first time big E had talked with him about this issue.

[@AdeptKing]

The Emperor did talk to him in private and tried a bunch of different things to try and get him to stop. At least that's what we're told. The razing was the last resort.

[@alphax4785]

Monarchia = Chernobyl. Everyone looks at what effect this had on Lorgar / Roboute / Big E and so on... but they both in the story and outside it there's the simple fact that to chastise Lorgar, the Emperor + Guilliman leveled basically all the most important infrastructure on a planet full of people that had no idea that the Legion that had brought them into the Imperium had effed up in the eyes of the Emperor. Even after all that had happened, it wasn't truly Erebus and Kor Phaeron who turned Lorgar and the Word Bearers against the Imperium, it was the survivors of Monarchia, especially Cyrene, who did that. The Imperium that they loved with an Emperor who they worshiped as a god just turns around and makes an example of them when they did not know what they had done wrong... because they hadn't... they were damned both ways... if they'd torn down Monarchia themselves and disregarded the Word Bearers they'd have been rebels subject to the wrath of the Imperium. In chastising Lorgar the way he did, the Emperor unknowingly / uncaringly betrayed humanity. If Lorgar hadn't been so faithful even as the Emperor was Exterminatusing every shred of his self esteem, he would have thrown the Big E's 'It's not my Imperium... it's the Imperium of Man...' right back in his face with 'I'm guessing the men of Khur don't count.' It's honestly a very... satisfying irony to me that the Emperor ended up as a screaming skeleton nailed to a golden toilet since he is literally incapable of EVER betraying the Imperium the way he did at Monarchia.

[@jonathandelatte7944]

Thanks for the awesome video on my birthday

[@wolflordrho]

Happy birthday!

[@forthencho6268]

oh the next fight u should talk about is the lion and the wolf fight.

[@mwch4554]

I want Guilliman and Damon Lorgar to fightand Guilliman barely winning using his father blade and during the fight have Guilliman apologize for not being abetted brother and being there for him. After Lorgar falls, and his soul not able to leave to do the blade. Have Guilliman cry over the body and say father please help me. And we watch Lorgar body return to human in death and he brushes Guilliman cheek and thanks him for freeing him and then have Guilliman carry Lorgar body all the way to Terra refusing to put the body down as he cries over his lost brother tell he is buried.

[@sindrimyr5351]

i still dont like the blade thing. i mean guilliam burried the blade in Magnus chest up to the hilt and it did nothing to him, literally nothing aside from making Magnus angry. and if guilliam wins...it would be shit. in betrayer they were on par, as a daemon prince he should easily beat him.

[@mwch4554]

Djure Ratermann isn’t magnus a physek and Guilliman really has no real phyic abilities? Saying there been plenty of asspulls in writing before, and if his father wanted he could channel some of his power through the sword.

[@JSTaylor556]

@@sindrimyr5351 it did a lot more than piss him off. And the stab wound didn't kill him. From what I understand, the wound has to kill them for it to work, or they have to die. So if Magnus would've been killed in that fight, his would wouldn't have been able to escape or his soul leave

[@nataliealphonse4634]

If Guilliman had been honest to Lorgar and spoken to him afterwards I think there could have been real resolution. I don't think there's any world where Roboute WANTED to raze Monarchia he just had to obey his Father, it's the way he hands down instructions from on high that makes Lorgar not be able to move past it imo

[@earltheartist3697]

Your videos are a treat and again your view is very non bias more objective the primarchs are humanity heightened so the human traits and flaws too. Lorgar was grieving and angry. While I think guilliman was duty bound but unwilling to show emotion as if the primarchs would dare question the orders of the Big E. I also love the fact that the heresy era word bearers are what modern 40k astartes are, religious zealots warrior monks with bolters, chainswords, and power weapons

[@brigandboy1425]

Always, the Emperor seems rushed when he shouldn't be. Simply take the time to explain how he is wrong. Re-train the man, ffs! Don't *NUKE HIS CITY* and then leave him alone to his anger and grief! Frickin' Emperor started that civil war by being inept at dealing with people.

[@nosignal7156]

@Ryder Steel The Emperor did an evil thing. That is what Lorgar reacted to.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

It wasn't just 1 city too, it was 17th hive cities.

[@simbriant]

It's kind of sad that Lorgar finally realizes there was never a rivalry between him and Guilliman. Guilliman did raze Monarchia, but he was only following Daddy Emp's orders. There was no malice in his actions. Of course, by then Lorgar has turned Angron into a demon prince and they have been destroying planets all across the 500 Planets of Ultramar so its too late to really change anything.

[@randomcenturion7264]

That was a sad part. You can tell how Lorgar would've given anything to just explain himself, upon learning the truth. In that moment, he mourned the brotherhood he threw away.

[@orygungeeksolitude1380]

Wait wait wait...was it known that they were going to destroy Monarchia? Because if I was Lorgar and had my life's work and dedication of duty and love be destroyed without prior notification, a blow across the chest in my opinion is a fine eye for an eye in respect to cheap shots.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

Lorgar didn't know that the Ultramarines had been ordered to destroy Monarchia by the Emperor, hell they didn't even know the Emperor was in orbit when they confronted the Ultramarines in the ruins of Monarchia. The Word Bearers found out that Khur was under attack because the Ultramarines allowed the world goverment of the planet to send a single astropathic message that begged the Word Bearers to save them from the "false angels" who claim to be the 13th Legion. Also the Ultramarines didn't just destroy Monarchia, they destroyed every city on the planet.

[@orygungeeksolitude1380]

@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 So if he had no idea that the Big E and Rebooty Quilterman were wrecking his whole cities and planet, then Lorgar's "cheap shot" is just fine by me. Appreciate your input

[@Kunori]

Lorgar's attitude to Malcador demonstrates the real issue with his mindset. The problem wasn't so much that he placed the emperor above humanity, but that he set humanity below the emperor. Not that the emperor must be worshipped, but that humanity must worship him. Lorgar's faith justified his contempt for "lesser" beings.

[@MrRigmunkee1]

Well said! I hadn't thought of that.

[@a.d.3352]

I understand Lorgar and his my favorite primarch

[@DarkSolace33]

I did my duty. Nothing more.

[@ProfessionalRtard]

Yo Bobby G, what's good? How's the whole Master of The Imperium thing going?

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Hey, Girlyman... 🖕🖕🖕

[@BarrackOba]

I wish the ultramarines didn’t have such a bad reputation Guilliman is a cool character it’s games workshop that have given them this bad reputation most of the books make them look cool

[@johanandersson4351]

I love the Ultramarines 😍 and I get made fun of a lot haha

[@BarrackOba]

Johan Andersson yeah I love em to I just try and not talk about them 😂 but I just like how cool and calm Guilliman is and that he’s an amazing tactician but can beat some ass if he needs to he’s probably my favourite primarch Russ is my second and their pretty different from each other idk why I like him so much 😂

[@Nyctophora]

_The only kind of shot Lorgar could get_

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Nyctophora Logar should have taken Girlyman’s head at that exact moment. 🖕Girlyman. And his ultrasmurf bitches.

[@fmbrown8566]

Emperor Constantine 1. U seem really upset, where did guilliman touch u? Would u like to talk about it?

[@RAMBOdyykkari]

A fine video once again :) I was just wondering if you have any plans on making videos about Rogal Dorn or Magnus the Red? For example their first moments with the Emperor

[@wolflordrho]

I will do videos on all the Primarchs of course! There’s precious little written about the Primarchs meeting the Emperor which is a shame.

[@anastasiosgkotzamanis5277]

'The First Heretic": another bit of Aaron Dembski Bowden greatness.

[@fullgreys0n738]

I think that it is possible that Lorgar saw somethin that we didin't catch here. So that Guillaume was enjoying to see Lorgar and his Legion kneeing.

[@christianfinken6433]

In his Primarch book "Bearer of the Word" Lorgar is so empathic that He Can feel the Emotion of others and read peoples moods from their boby language and Mimik. It's possible that He saw what He said in Roboutes Eyes. On the other Hand He was really pissed of and emotional hurt in that Moment so it could also be imaginativ. Btw. In sharp contrast to his brother Primarchs, Lorgar was really a child when He was found. Perturabo knew He was a enginered being from the Start and is even suprised when He realises He has the body of a child. Lorgar Was Just a normal child. Lorgar ist not the weakest Primarch. He is the most HUMAN of the primarchs and because of that his brothers think He is weak. But after his revelation even Magnus is sacred of him..

[@nosignal7156]

@@christianfinken6433 That sounds pretty awesome. I get the feeling Lorgar would have been better used as a ruler on earth next to Malcador. The Emperor used him badly. He shouldn't have been used as a conqueror.

[@MLdoktor]

Your voice.. amazing. Longer videos please.

[@jheikes]

one of the best storytellers by far.......! well done

[@GumMagnum]

It's interesting to think that a lot of trouble could have been avoided if the emperor and lorgar just, y'know, talked? Maybe had a conversation? Communicated?

[@randomcenturion7264]

The Emperor is TERRIBLE with people. I mean, he chose burning a city over talking things out with his son. WTF?

[@ironduke5058]

@@randomcenturion7264 No he did, many times. Even chastised him and did things similar to sanctions. Lorgar wasn't listening. This was truly the last step to get him to stop. If after this he still didn't get it, he probably would have been erased like the other 2 legions, it was a very serious issue

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

@@ironduke5058 umm, any evidence of what you are saying? Is there a transcript?

[@ironduke5058]

@@johnisaacfelipe6357 The Emperor talks about it in Master Of Mankind I beleive?? He says something along the lines of "I have spoken to him and I have done everything I could from all the way back here on the soils of Terra. Sent envoys and official letters and requests for the speed of his conquest to increase lest he fall further behind his brothers.. " some shxt like that, the quote goes on though

[@Pineappletaco]

I love the metaphor with the aquilla.

[@johnnyscifi]

The dauntless few...aka: the bullying "too cool" for everyone else primarchs

[@randomcenturion7264]

That was part of the rallying cry for the Heretics. It didn't even matter if they won for some of them. Just a chance for one great big "Fuck You" to all those "Perfect" Primarchs, that beau acratic worm Malcador and the Golden Fool. And boy oh boy, did they get some payback.

[@tomcarroll505]

My favorite moment

[@RobbSavag3]

Thank you reinforcing my hate for the ultramarines lol

[@fedupN]

We find out how Guilliman felt in a later book, the one with cover of him punching a Word Bearer into orbit. Guilliman didn't enjoy it. It was a job, and he had hoped Lorgar would learn from it. Later he would be enraged and shocked with Lorgar's betrayal and tantrum. "It was a REBUKE!" In the shadow crusade, Lorgar sees Guilliman actually angry and realized he really had been a delusional idiot at this stage. Guilliman didn't lock him, just acted as an adult should and not a petulant child.

[@MrTolgarion]

I dunno I believe Lorgars words where "Lorgar: Have you lost your temper, Roboute? Guilliman: I am going to gut you. Lorgar: You have lost your temper."

[@fedupN]

@@MrTolgarion yeah when Lorgar launched his duo of dumbassery with Angron, he did take joy in killing his former brothers but he also realized he HADN'T seen Guilliman angry earlier, and that his whining tirade on Monarchia was, in fact, due to his own delusions. Admittedly, I'd have to read Betrayer again but I distinctly recall a scene when Guilliman catches up with them and starts pummeling Lorgar that Lorgar sees true fury in his eyes and realizes "ohhh this is what Guilliman looks like showing emotion!"

[@bryanskscion2229]

@@fedupN I thought the fight with Guilliman who's more of a tactician than a warrior and his two brothers was ridiculous. The fact that he was able to hold his own against Angron supposedly the strongest of all the prims transcending to demon hood as well as a recently powered Up Chaos blessed Lorgar was stupid.

[@fedupN]

@@bryanskscion2229 I'm curious where you picked up the idea that Angron was the strongest? In terms of raw strenght Vulkan, Ferrus Mannus, and (depending) Mortarion are often touted as the top three. Even for top fighter, Horus, Russ, Sanguinius are all ranked very highly, with the Lion and Fulgrim being listed as amazing swordsmen. Its a contested spot. I've always held issue with the idea that a half-lobotomized rage addict was somehow a good fighter, at least against comparably strong foes. Sure, being angry gives you a great burst of strength, but to FIGHT? Brute strength is usually followed by brute stupidity. To address the other point: Guilliman was a warrior and tactician. He mastered all points of war. If the guy is jotting down notes for future tactical treatise, while making note of incoming logistical feeds, and making note of his captains small talk, there is no way a better method of stabby-stabby escapes his notice. He had an entire gallery of weaponry, with diverse styles, set with practice arenas to test the weapons (somewhat close to his quarters if I'm not mistaken) and array their merits and faults. Dude ranked everything, like an anime fan ranking waifus. Lorgar, conversely, was a poor fighter. He never trained, or drilled, or embraced it. Even with Chaos steroids, he lacked the edge many other had. (ON A PRIMARCH SCALE-to clarify. ) In short, a truly pissed Guilliman, handling the most broken and most whiny of the Primarchs, I can see that being a thing.

[@Green-lk5nt]

@@fedupN No it is simply bad writing in my opinion. In the very visions of the future chaos gives Lorgar a choice you could single-handedly kill your brother or win the war. So it is plot armor or bad writing.

[@VedaRa501]

Guilliman basically told Lorgar "You hit like a Bitch"

[@blinkingred]

Was the first horus heresy book i read. Solid book but I may need to reread it I have forgotten alot of the best moments.

[@alanmorales5784]

Wolf Another great video!. Gulliman arrogance comes from taking comfort of his systematic “robotic “ way of analytically assessing any situation without prejudice, I can see how Gulliman was sicken at seeing a primarch brother behaving in such an emotional way, I’m sure Gulliman felt that if Malcador a “human “ could contain his composure , he was not about to become something beneath it. After all the only peers Gulliman respects are those who can achieve so much without being systematically using “standard tactics “ and make him challenge his tactical skills like the Lion. Ironically Gulliman gets to experience what Lorgar wish Gulliman could feel , when he was awoken , and travelled to terra and saw that Terra was almost an exact replica of the Lorgars city they laid to waste, and saw all those people adoring worshiping the Emperor as a god. Boy what a slap in the face ha!, even then Gulliman takes that stiff upper lip attitude, and goes forward towards the new campaign that daddy sent him to. All Gulliman needs is purpose, the perfect TOOL, I’m really thinking Gulliman and the Ultramarines have a gene flaw , and it’s the equivalent of Space Marines Autism, I swear it’s like some Forest Gump shit! 😂, Gulliman is like “ my daddy told me to just keep killing and running that direction...me and I did cause I’m a good son”

[@TheMaxim10083]

Brilliant book, Brilliantly read. This is one of HIS biggest mistakes and ADB writes it beautifully. If only some of the other legions got this kind of writing

[@thalastianjorus]

I have always been surprised that no one ever noticed the foreshadowing: Lorgar, in this moment split the Imperial Aquila. This was the first moment of the Imperium splitting in half.

[@jonharper8963]

The ultramarines and Guilliman get a bad rep. I think Lorgars anger is misplaced here. Guilliman was only doing what he was ordered to do, the same as any primarch would and showed sympathy for lorgar.

[@commissarlugh1040]

bull

[@AdeptKing]

I think Guilliman actually didn't want to burn the city but he wouldn't disobey a command of course especially from his father.

[@RebelOfTheNorm242]

Pity. It was pure pity and disappointment that Robuto felt. Before hin stood a Primarch, the GREATEST creations of the Emperor, vessels of his will....deterred from the path. Frolicking in his own delights like a rebellious child, while his brothers are working hard to accomplish their fathers goals. Guilly boy pitied lorgar, and was probably angry he had to take so many human lives just to teach his brother a lesson. 'A waste of life for a foolish goal'

[@Nyctophora]

Guilliman got the blame because Lorgar couldn't or wouldn't blame the person who really did this to him, the Emperor. Thus Lorgar takes his feelings out on Guilliman and Malcador. Lorgar is weak. I could easily feel sorry for him if it were not for his diligence in blaming everyone except himself. Guilliman did his duty; if he'd wanted to he could have struck Lorgar in return and somehow I don't think Lorgar would have won that fight.

[@Equinox2149]

@@Nyctophora Judging from Logar's fight with Corvax with his psyker abilities, he would probably lose against Robute

[@TDBoedy]

Guilliman did nothing wrong. The blow he took was for the Emperor - with whom he knew Lorgar was truly angry. On the part of the EoM - Guilliman (we would hope) should get a chance to talk about that scene. Clearly the EoM meant to shock Lorgar back to his senses and remind him of his duty. But often this can have the reverse or inverse effect and strengthen resentment already present. If the situation were reversed it may have worked on Guilliman to bring him back in line. The EoM miscalculated - he did not know his sons as well as he thought and they never really were brothers having grown up all separately. Their bonds were weak and chaos would capitalize on this.

[@BonzoDrummer]

Guilliman did everything wrong. #XVII

[@tomdolan9761]

Kind of odd that the Emperor has purged the 2nd and 11th Primarchs, he shames Lorgar, he purges the Thousand Sons and yet Conrad Curze is left to do his psychotic business without Imperial intervention?

[@mrmoney5886]

Love your videos.

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

CAN YOU, OR HAVE YOU DONE: THE TESTING OF BJORN, FROM WOLFSBANE? THAT IS A GOOD ONE.

[@wolflordrho]

Haven’t done it yet. Certainly will!

[@patricklioneljonson2747]

Battle of the Fang is when I read about Bjorn.

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

@@patricklioneljonson2747 that was an interesting one.

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

@@wolflordrho should be Chapter 14

[@evropaawake4421]

"tantrum" Yeah it's not at all like everything he's worked for just got burnt to ash. The Emperor's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[@evropaawake4421]

@Ryder Steel The Emperor's work is nonsense

[@evropaawake4421]

@Ryder Steel In the 40k universe gods are proven real so Lorgar is correct.

[@evropaawake4421]

@Ryder Steel Actually if you pay close attention to the lore Lorgar is pretty much the only one who understands the big picture of chaos. He doesn't devote to the gods for power but because he honestly seeks truth, and there is purity in that, a dead ego in admitting that there are beings greater than you. While the Emperor basically wants power because he believes himself somehow intitled to ruling everything. Chaos undivided is human nature in the divine.

[@evropaawake4421]

@Ryder Steel Again, you don't understand the nature of chaos, but then again I don't blame you

[@evropaawake4421]

@Ryder Steel We will agree to disagree

[@Khashmonet]

That foreshadowing tho

[@HoundofOdin]

A son chastised for loving his father too much.

[@gilsonpassos1047]

Roboute can't be enjoying, he is clearly trying to deescalate, if it was not the case he would, most certainly, have not shown such restraint against the cheap shot, he may not be as human as Malcador, but his reaction was pretty similar.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

Its not just Guilliman and Malcador who saw the razing of monarchia as cruel but also Magnus, Russ, Sanguinius, Horus, etc. Almost half of the brother primarchs were disgusted by it.

[@richardvaldes3959]

do at least on on ARGEL TAL and KHARNS bromance

[@richardvaldes3959]

@Augustine Uribeby far one of the most interesting stories in the HH

[@richardvaldes3959]

@Augustine Uribe when Khan asks him " are we on the wrong side" and A responses " we are definitely on the wrong side"

[@TRAVISHOWRYMUSIC]

"Get up." - Kharn

[@phillipmartinez2436]

Favorite book in the series so far. Finishing off Fulgrim and its good but not the same. This makes me wanna read know no fear next but so many books in the series to read.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

Guilliman probably could have handled it better, but that's only from an outside perspective. He just had to destroy an entire population of loyal subjects whose only crime was glorifying the Emperor as a deity. He probably has a small gripe with the Emperor himself after this, and opening up any emotion in the situation might compromise any kind of cool he has.

[@AdeptKing]

It was an order. He wasn't going to disobey even if he didn't approve.

[@nosignal7156]

It wasn't Guilliman's responsibility. It was the Emperor's responsibility, it was the emperor who should have known better. The Emperor lacks the weighting of Theory-vs-Practicality mindset which Guilliman has.

[@keithgainey7853]

He evacuated the population first.

[@rjsteeves]

Honestly after watching Archwarhammer's video series on this book and reading it myself, I can't help but get the feeling that the author "needed" to paint Guilliman and the Emperor in a harsh light in order to make Lorgar a more sympathetic character. It was something Arch brought up and I can't help but agree. From everything we know about Guilliman and the Emperor, they would have handled this better.

[@nosignal7156]

@@rjsteeves Guilliman just followed orders, he wasn't painted in a bad light. The Emperor isn't exactly dad of the year, any year. This is one of the places he screwed up because he was allergic to worship. It's part of his character.

[@carlroyle3055]

I rather think lorgar lacks grace here although I suppose one can forgive him in this instance it is the most soul destroying moment of his life.

[@randomcenturion7264]

To paraphrase 1D4Chan, considering this would induce life-shattering depression in any other human, Lorgar's mental fortitude is amazing. Most other beings would just put a Bolt-round in their head to end the misery.

[@Bigboy_smooth]

I understand why Logan did what he did not saying that I agree with him but I get it

[@bennotgiven1375]

I think you and I Define cheap shot differently. If you are I are in a confrontation standing there, arguing and conversing, and one of us decides to slug the other I don't really consider that a cheap shot. I mean what's he supposed to do ring a little bell first?

[@aitoriri1]

Lorgar got lucky Guilliman was sent there. If he tryed to strike Russ, Dorn or the Lion the same way he did to Big G things would end poorly for Lorgar

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

Russ would argubaly just took it or probably even said something in defense of lorgar at that point. Russ liked Lorgar which is one of the very few things he shared with Magnus

[@jackharvey9808]

In the same breath I doubt that those three would of been as mocking. The lion doesn’t have the social capability to be mocking, Dorn has been shown to be more caring of his brothers than other primarchs. Russ like above would of taken it / another lion vs russ. Horus/sanguinius would of probably been best to of handled this.

[@theinquisition7]

We all talk about this from a hindsight point of view, things can happen to people you have influence over of which consequences you will not anticipate at the time....

[@გიორგიმოსაშვილი-ო3დ]

Sick burn by the Robuteman!

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

Everybody: We all know that Girlyman was FUCKING enjoying lording it over a brother he had no respect for the ENTIRE time. Don’t try and explain away Girlymans’ actions, he is was laughing like a mad man in his head and he DAMN well had a ghost of a smile on his face and in his eyes.

[@saheterabakutisha1476]

Show me a quote.

[@darthgorthaur258]

I think the only thing that would make that scene better is if malcador stopped him with his mind just before he connected with him blow... Or maybe better than this, is if the emperor stopped it from orbit an produced a psychic vision of himself to make the comment about why he stopped the hit from happening... Which ones best ?

[@theannouncer5538]

I’d say I feel bad for lorgar, but that would be heresy of the highest order

[@Ghost-eo6jb]

No sympathy for the heretic, lest we also fall to the ruinous powers

[@anglocatholick]

Could you do some vids on Lorgars primarch book? I know it's not that action packed but shows Kor Phaeron as a true evil character and shows how great Colchis and Lorgar was

[@wyattbequette3596]

No. This was not a cheap shot, the burning of lorgard city was a cheap shot

[@commanderfarsight2351]

After listening to this, I can only believe on one thing. The Emperor didn't care about how the Primarchs were raised, hence why all of them had issues with looking at the emperor ad a father figure.

[@Del_S]

Guilliman: "I'm bleeding, making me the victor."

[@sarethuskami5082]

One thing I noticed near the end of this video, you mentioned how "we know Malcador cares a great deal" for the primarchs. Could you do video showcasing examples? I know he cares for Russ somewhat but the rest?

[@TheDoomGuy333]

What music do you use in the intro part? You really hear it around 0:50

[@Sidragrosm]

The Emperor, by this one "act..?" sending Papa Smurf to smash Monarchia, and further shaming Lorgar in front of the ONE Primarch he (Lorgar) had the most issue with..? (A duty-centric, hidebound realist/aetheist is the LAST sort of person you send to deal w/a religious fanatic - said "meeting..?" was doomed before it even began!) For all of Papa Smurf's alleged "heartlessness" it was their daddy that screwed everything up. All he (The Corpse-Emperor) had to do..? was sit his boy down, and EXPLAIN himself! But he didn't. Instead, he sent someone else to smur...I mean clean up a mess he himself failed to prevent. (You can't say The Emperor was ignorant of Lorgar's beliefs, or that he knew that Colchis was a theocracy, one RULED by his son! But the Corpse-Emperor couldn't be bothered to counsel his son - Nope..! Better to heap LOADS of shame upon him, via public humiliation... (someone should have warned him - it's never smart to step on someone else's beliefs. Not when they can inspire a Pan galactic civil war...) TheEmperor - a great and powerful leader... and an absolute shit-heel of a daddy!

[@00Boogie]

I think the degree of candor needed to talk Lorgar off the edge was impossible in front of their troops. Hell, Gulliman risked his own world burning if he was completely frank with Lorgar and anyone overheard. I think until we have a clear understanding of what the Emperor is and how he came to be we can never fully understand the ridiculous blindspots he has when dealing with individual people. I remember this bit in the Screwtape Letters in which Screwtape talked about spheres of varying levels of tangible and abstract. Getting a person hung up on the good of humanity was a great way to make him unconcerned with the man next to him. That may in part account for the Emperor's lack of tact. A bit of an aside, but worth mulling over.

[@Sumzja]

Guilliman The Consul acting as legate of the Emperor, delivering a message obeying an order.

[@citrusorange794]

In the End of the Day Lorgar Already Won

[@whereami8301]

Lorgar's fury and despair are completely understandable, but he was still in the wrong. He was warned previous to this, was he not? I sometimes think about being somehow transported to the Warhammer 40k universe during the Great Crusade, and was able to speak to the Emperor, what I would say to him and what advice I'd give. I'd tell him that Kor Phaeron was a traitor obviously. But I'd advise him to maybe have Alpharius or even the Officio Assassinorum handle him in a stealthy way so that no one knew what exactly happened to him. Make it look like he was killed on the battlefield or something. He'd be able to read my mind and would definitely believe me but I wonder if he'd get mad at me for saying stuff like, "No, don't do X, because Y will happen and that would be immensely bad," all the time, hahaha.

[@nosignal7156]

A child can be in the wrong, but it will always be the adult's responsibility. Perhaps one of the contention points is you see Lorgar as an adult whereas I see him as someone who has not been raised as the Emperor would have likened. Your thought experiment is interesting, there is definitely a lot of things Emperor should have done better.

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

In Master of Mankind, it was alluded to that the emperor sent warnings to Lorgar about his slow progression in the Great Crusade. In terms of worship, The Emperor actually did not care at all, He showed only mild annoyance during the 1 month long celebration of his own divine nature when they were at sicarus. The Emperor did not chastised Lorgar about his practices for a hundred years until Monarchia.

[@NemFX]

Honestly, if Roboute had talked better with his brothers, the heresy might have been different. That said, it would have been great if he had pulled out a scroll, declared that it was a command from the Emperor, and shown Lorgar: Don't be a bitch. - E

[@BarrackOba]

You know when you were a kid and hit a tree with a stick like a sword that’s what I imagine when lorgar hit Guilliman a small child hitting a tree with a stick 😂