Losing Our Religion: David Brooks On The Allure of Tribalism

The columnist and author talks conservatism, conversion, and connection.
For show notes and more, click here:
www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...
Click here for Russell and David's 2022 conversation on the podcast:
• The Russell Moore Show...

[@29mirstudio]

David Brooks is a national treasure.

[@donofon1014]

He is UNETHICAL. He has offered commentary on PBS for years on the Supreme Court. Justices including Clarence Thomas and Leonard Leo who arranges the elevation of "Federalist Society" judges .... and all that time he has been on the receiving end of Crows generous " hospitality" . This is basic journalistic malpractice ... and he waves it away with that wan smile. David Brooks: from the NewHour transcipt May 5 '23. "Yes, first, I should say I have been friends with Harlan Crow for about 20 years. I find him a wonderful man. He's hosted me at his home in Dallas and in New York. So, reader - viewers should know that that's my connection to Harlan. And so that's disclosure. And that's what I wish Clarence Thomas had done in this case. I think viewers are smart enough to know. I'm probably biased in Harlan. I really like Harlan. I think he's a wonderful guy. He's pro-choice. He could have influenced Clarence Thomas. And so Clarence Thomas should say: I trust the citizens of this country, and so I'm going to disclose my connection, and that - that's that."

[@SpringLake842]

Having grown up in Wheaton, and then going on to Moody for my education, and later ditching church and most of the evangelical scene, I find this talk honest and fair. Xians should be different than their worldly counterparts, and that needs to be pointed out. If a guy like David Brooks can see some good in the form of xianity that remains, there is some hope. Thank you gentlemen.

[@hollyshippy7417]

My husband attended Moody ... Fall of 67-Spring of 69 ... I graduated from Grace College and Seminary in 74. We stepped away from Christianity and the church 30 years ago. Never looked back. If Christians engaged in conversation as David Brooks does in this interview, they would be more pleasant to be around. Sadly, however, the leaven of Christian certitude rises to new levels of arrogance, ignorance, pride and hubris. Our son and his wife and daughter and her husband are Millennials ... and want nothing to do with organized religion, much less Fundamentalist Evangelicalism ... which seems hell-bent on tribalism at all cost. Western religion is in decline and has only itself to blame for shooting itself in the foot and sticking its foot in its mouth.

[@keithsuits430]

Mister Brooks nearly always brings common sense to social problems. Highly intelligent conversation while maintaining humility.

[@couchkoochis]

These guys have kept me sane and hopeful over the past few years. Thanks.

[@bobdupuy5910]

Great interview. I always feel my soul is enriched when I hear David Brooks. This interview covered so many areas, it was very instructive.

[@bethprather9241]

This guy is so smart, honest and has lived enough to know truth. This was great

[@donofon1014]

He has been dishonest for many years. He is a recipient of the generosity and hospitality of billionaire Harlan Crow .. the man who sponsors unJustice Clarence Thomas. Years of commenting on the court before finally disclosing his devotion to Crow. This is documented ... starting with Brooks sort of confession on NewsHour .. May 5 2023. Crow is the reclusive billionaire with a grand garden of statues of Totalitarian Dictators. Brooks has been in breach of basic journalistic ethics the whole time.

[@bryansyme6215]

Me, my wife and my daughter and her parents all moved into a house in the country. And it has been the biggest blessing in our lives aside from me coming to Christ.

[@simpleysteve2536]

Surprise! and Surprised!! As an evangelical Christian I was so encouraged in my faith to hear Russell's interview with David Brooks, journalist and PBS personality. Truly, in Christ as He works through His people, there is Hope and Salvation. Hallelujah!

[@kguigou]

Maybe the culturally transformative potential of this conversation is in the layers of wisdom between the lines. When I invest ear-time in something like this, I’m digging for gold, not documenting what offends. “Eat the meat; spit out the bones.“ This talk was full of meat.

[@christopherdean2893]

We need more of David Brooks and less of Fox News and CNN.

[@MatthewGoldberg8491]

Thank God we have a choice about who we listen to.

[@maryherbert9082]

I've listened once....I'll listen again. Thank you so much for this conversation.

[@cynthiastarks7161]

Love David Brooks. He is so thoughtful and insightful. I love what he has to say about looking at someone and realizing he or she is made in the image of God. Amen.

[@donofon1014]

Dishonest for years and years. Brooks has been Commenting on PBS and in the press on the Supreme Court until finally disclosing his 20 years in the pocket of Harlan Crow ... the billionaire sponsor of Clarence Thomas ... and the author of the decline of trust in the Supreme Court. He brings his hypocrisy with him to church. See PBS NewHour May 5 2023 . Easy Seach words . Brooks Harlan Crow PBS NewsHour ... The whole time you have watched Brooks .. he has hidden a serious breach of journalistic ethics ... and personal honor.

[@Vic82toire]

David Brooks, always a pleasure. He makes me fall in love with my Christian faith all over again.

[@donofon1014]

He has been in breach of basic journalistic ethics for years. Like Clarence Thomas ... billionaire Harlan Crow .. the one with a garden of statues of totalitarian dictators .. Brooks has taken the gifts and hospitality of the MANIPULATOR of the Supreme Court while commenting like an honest party. Sorry... but Brooks poses himself as a good soul while playing dirty pool on PBS.

[@laurachurch8233]

I grew up in Wilkes County, NC. I moved away after college because of the lack of opportunity there. I was so shocked when I heard him reference it. A very powerful conversation, thank you for this podcast!

[@jazzyreyes6921]

I so admire this man! He tells the truth!

[@sherylbullock4716]

I love to hear that David Brooks has come to faith. You both are people of influence. Thanks for interviewing him.

[@docjaramillo]

What do you really mean by “come to faith” … I grew up in the church. Real truth seeking was not a priority in my religious upbringing. I no longer consider myself a “believer” but I maintain ‘faith’ in humanity and our opportunities to improve our fellow human beings lives. You don’t need to believe in a god or Jesus’ resurrection to have faith. There is no afterlife. The supernatural is purely an imagined concept that gives ‘believers’ a sense of certainty that causes them to fly airplanes into building, strap suicide vest on, and go on crusades.

[@dawidbuster2961]

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands- 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and ***strangers to the covenants of promise***, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. Oh, but now the theology of Peter's dream about racism means bacon? Read Isaiah 65, 66? Why would you trust any theologian that ignores the New Covenant and the testimony of the sky?

[@donofon1014]

Brooks has been Dishonest for years and years. Commenting on PBS and in the press on the Supreme Court until finally disclosing his 20 years in the pocket of Harlan Crow ... the billionaire sponsor of Clarence Thomas ... and the author of the decline of trust in the Supreme Court. He brings his hypocrisy with him to church. See PBS NewHour May 5 2023 . Easy Seach words . Brooks Harlan Crow PBS NewsHour ...

[@justinprice9017]

Wonderful discussion. Thanks to both of you. A quote that has stuck with me for years. Not sure who said it, but it was an English Theologian, probably 2nd half of the 20th Century. (If someone knows who it is, I would love to know). "Spirituality is like a swimming pool. Most of the noise comes from the shallow end."

[@Sunny14136]

Great conversation! Wonderful.

[@TheGretsch6120]

“The ‘culture war’ is just a reason to have a war, sometimes.” BINGO!

[@SeptemberApril-io1hi]

Two speak to the question of why Protestant churches are losing members, I would like to say that spiritual depth is what people are looking. The sacraments are central. If Christians think intellectually about their religion, it often fails to go deeply into the human knowledge of their sinfulness. I have enjoyed this conversation. Thank you.

[@bitwise2832]

Gaining rationality, humanity, and facing reality is not a loss. Losing superstition, inter-generational emotional blackmail, and an unwarranted fear of the unknown is a good thing. It is a sign humans are waking up.

[@glenrotchin5523]

Brooks misses one big shift in the way economy turned from a manufacturing based one to an information based one. This was the key change reinforcing the reward of the educated caste class system over the business based entrepreneurial blue and white collar based economy.

[@readynowforever3676]

I don’t disagree with the validity of what you’re saying, because it’s factually verifiably true. But whether it’s the institutions of academia, political/governance or (as you’re referencing) commercial capital (capitalism) institutions, the same cultural default machinations and mechanisms are unwavering. You succinctly and accurately described a capitalism inflection point. But ironically, I think that created more white collar (mid-level middle class) career opportunities (at least in theory) and less lower-level middle class job opportunities. At some point our species had to shift from the Stone Age to the Iron Age. In this analogy, America being the new Iron Age of civilization. Brooks, at least in the first 20 minutes (I briefly stopped viewing to come find your comment) is talking about a cultural power concentration. One that is systemically reinforcing itself, regardless of the emergence of new institutions.

[@direwolf6234]

the top 10% controls 80% of the wealth and promote the cruelest of policies ...

[@chrisfreebairn870]

​@@readynowforever3676exactly what do you mean by your last two paras? Those new elites (which are not essentially different from the old elites, just a bit better educated) arise via the coincidence of the current globalisation & technical development situation with their skills & abilities PLUS the weakness of formerly balancing centres of economic & cultural power, which were more conservative, & grounded enough to hold the centre against the ever present mad right. I squirmed at his 'guilty' description of 'the elite'. The currently successful can help by being fair with the benefits, but at some point the middle has to find its ethical compass, & sure as hell resentfully blaming the elites isn't the way to get there. Right now that conservative balancing force, as far as power is concerned, is being leveraged by the forces of self centred dark money, SCOTUS stacking rights deniers, gerrymanderers, performative clown politicians, liars, cheats & grifters. And they're not screwing the educated elite, but using them as the boogey man to scare their real marks, the average Joe & Jill that ought see them for what they've always been; only now they're worse bc the old high tax fair play script has been flipped to the worship of wealth & the selfish individual. That educated elite is pretty woke, more alert than ever to social conscience, so I think the rapacious right, who masquerade as conservative, are the real enemy of the good, & they are deliberately driving the entrepreneurial conflict culture wars crap specifically to misdirect the masses that would otherwise come after them! While all this grassroots problem resolution may revive & resolve to a degree, the blatant deception & misdirection of Fox et al (which includes the GOP clown show as co-conspirator) continues to pour violent resentment into ppls lives. The absence of moral & ethical pushback to that, in fact the calculating provocation of it by those who know better, is the real problem. The Trumpists came to power by recognising then stoking that disequilibrium, & he's still doing it. That can only happen bc the powerful benefit from it, the ppl with the real money, not this educated elite, who are at best moderately wealthy & not particularly versed in the dark arts of political power manipulation. Citizens United is the root of this; that's when corporate power in its current form was handed the whip with which it continues to thrash the ppl. The dog catches car scenario of Dobbs shows their deep disrespect for plurality, & tRump was their chump, an inspired merchant of chaos sent to deceive, confuse & divide. His unleashing of the resentful right has placed ignirance, fear & anger in a position where it usurps the conservative position, intimidating it into silence. And somehow it's all the fault of the highly educated elites? That's a pretty neat little switcheroo right there.

[@davidkendall6689]

Your statement is very true. The shift began long before the infoage shift you speak of. Brooks partially represented the historic evolution necessary for a more complete understanding and your point provides a piece of that puzzle. There is however much more and we would all benefit from knowing.😊

[@donttrudd2310]

Curiosity is the key to being respectful to others and to our own growth.

[@jazzyreyes6921]

I love him….he’s so honest! The talk about church growth is so moving.

[@donofon1014]

Dishonest for years and years. Commenting on PBS and in the press on the Supreme Court until finally disclosing his 20 years in the pocket of Harlan Crow ... the billionaire sponsor of Clarence Thomas ... and the author of the decline of trust in the Supreme Court. He brings his hypocrisy with him to church. See PBS NewHour May 5 2023 . Easy Seach words . Brooks Harlan Crow PBS NewsHour ...

[@josefinamasadao-haas2205]

I absolutely agree with the idea of a multi-generational home being more advantageous to our developmental years. I am now in my 60's and I must say, the values I carry to this day are those taught by my grandparents and my great-grandmother.

[@ChineseJCVD]

I think it’s safe to say that if you are in this comment box, you have the right idea about the future of our country. Wishing you all a happy 2024.

[@gospeljoy5713]

There are just two categories the church the body of christ and the world. When we realize this it opens us up to a rich plethora of believers all around this world as well as the skeptics of true christianity. KZbin has been used by God to interconnect all countries and the body of christ.

[@Malachijoe]

Great commentary. Very insightful.

[@csm9105]

Great Discussion. 😊

[@judyogle9967]

I knew no grandparents and when my mother became a grandma, I wondered who that woman was! Then I met my mom-in-law and observed her relationship with her grandchildren and again it was a relationship to be admired and cherished but strange for me. And then I became a grandmother (step, but I never thought of it that way) and there was no doubt that it was the most wonderful period of my life. I think you get many chances to grow up: when you're growing up, when your kids are growing up, and when the grands are growing up.

[@brianp1230]

I agree with most he has said, for the most part. But the people, the social class he speaks of is the top 2-3% of household wealth owners. Not the top 10-20%. The top 10 million Americans have an incredibly disproportionate impact in culture, education, economics and politics on the remaining 325 million Americans.

[@direwolf6234]

top 10% controls 80% of wealth ...

[@pagosabob10]

I admire David Brooks. I listen to him on PBS each Friday when he's there. I do disagree with him on religion, but either way I find him well worth listening to. A good human being. :-)

[@jeanmacleod5621]

Wonderful interview but I never heard one mention of tribalism. Why do stations give titles that have no relevance to the actual show? Anyway, it was an important show to me, a grandmom who had to leave the country to live where I can afford to live, but feel the chasm between my grandchild and myself, a chasm which makes us both sad.

[@elainemcconnell7537]

Very thoughtful... David is worth listening to.... there are wide implications beyond the US.

[@Star-dj1kw]

This guy is great!

[@jazzyreyes6921]

Absolutely! I have read his books and I love his truths!

[@aroe3896]

a good listen, thank you. I enjoyed the shout out to Barry Levinson’s Avalon. What Brooks said about it is true, with other important storylines as well. Liberty Heights is another Levinson movie with keen sociological insight

[@ThePonderinglife]

I really like David Brooks!

[@rosebennett9997]

Powery I alwayy loved David I could tell hei a man of faith.

[@VincentValentine33]

I'm Trans Male and came out to my sister about it on her birthday, told her I started Testosterone shots every two weeks. Yesterday was my 2 month shot. She mentioned that she knew since we were little that there was something about me. Even when I was 4, I would scream that I was a boy, only to be beaten by my mother. So I kept it a secret. Just claimed I was a Tom Boy that never grew out of it. I was already dealing with PTSD because my mother was a narcissist and hated me since I was born because I was born with Epilepsy. So, I became the family scapegoat. I've been in therapy since 2015 after a nervous breakdown where I tried to unalive myself. I tried to perform Seppaku. I survived and through intense PTSD therapy, I confessed that I always considered myself a boy, even though my parents hated me for it. I was afraid of coming out sooner because I was terrified of them. I'm 43 years old and have an 18 year old son. I did everything that was expected of me as a woman, now, I want to live my real life. My husband and son are fully supportive. Back to my sister, she said she already knew and the family was shocked when I married my husband. I told her the reason I did it. She also mentioned that I am not one of the people that fell into a fad. I get that it's become a fad. Just like Marilyn Manson was in the 90's. It's a way to piss off and shock your parents. But only a small percent really are Trans.

[@jamesmarchetti3286]

This an important personal story to share and may possibly minister to some people !!!

[@VincentValentine33]

@@jamesmarchetti3286 I don't want to minister to people. I'm not a priest. I'm a member of The Satanic Temple. I just want to be free to be who I really am. Like in the song Numb by linkin Park. "I'm becoming this, all I want to do, is be more like me and be less like you".

[@direwolf6234]

some of us grew up in a culture that placed high value on education achievement and good deeds .. how far so many have turned away from those values and foisted their agenda on others ....

[@andywomack3414]

Who and what are you talking about? The agenda I see foisted is the Christian Agenda, which has been foisting for the past 1500 years.

[@evelynramos445]

Exploring my life on deeper level

[@maryfilippou6667]

Yes! Iris Murdoch's Gaze. I once met her in my friend's classroom, just the three of us. What is always remembered is her piercing gaze across the room as we met. I felt she was boring into me. Her novel too, and philosophy book is fascinating.

[@lorreeaton473]

Love David Brooks! and as some beautiful spiritual teachers have said: Christ is not Jesus' last name

[@amiensarabellis8391]

Yes, Rev. Tim Keller was a great pastor and a compassionate, humble man. Every one of his sermons was terrific.I grew up in a Christian church. During college we sang "They will know we are Christians by our Love." I read and agreed with Ron Sider who wrote "Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger." I don’t see that now in the church.

[@craigbritton1089]

When I studied theology: they taught us in Pastoral Training to keep preaching the same thing because the old members like to hear it.

[@bethprather9241]

Oh my so true... " For all the time evangelical churches in the Bible Belt spent on virtue.. The majority of unwed births in the US happen there. SO humble but true..

[@bethprather9241]

Wealthy beyond measure. So true

[@okrajoe]

Expand the colleges. The universities create artificial scarcity -- the colleges could easily expand the number of students admitted. The colleges aren't serving the public good, the colleges are just creating classes of have and have-nots.

[@Magnulus76]

Which Christianity are we supposed to gravitate around? The most popular religious movement in the US, besides nones, are Evangelical Christians, who promote un-civic virtues in a pluralistic society.

[@gospeljoy5713]

Get out your bible ask the Holy spirit to guide you. The gospel of grace of God. We are made sanctified by the Word of God and prayer. Eternal life is a deep relationship with the Father and the messiah jesus yeshua christ whom the Father sent.

[@gospeljoy5713]

Even though our church is not everything college church in wheaton is a great example. Our pastor Josh moody is british. We are word focused and prayer focused. We even make it clear the offering is only regulars and members not visitors. You can see the church online on sundays. There is zero talk about politicians. We are prolife but not militant.

[@simpleysteve2536]

Many who you would term "evangelical Christians" are not. I am one and I saw through Trump and his ilk before the beginning. That brand is not helpful.

[@Magnulus76]

@@simpleysteve2536 I actually go to a somewhat liberal Congregationalist church (UCC), but I don't know what to make of Christianity in the US. It feels like as a cultural or even spiritual force, the whole thing is teetering on collapse. It's all politicized and intellectually, alot of Christianity is weak compared to some other forces in society.

[@nuqwestr]

College admission issue starts with K-12 policies which has led to 60-70% admission being female and a higher drop-out rate of males. Brooks lost the thread about 15 years ago.

[@faymadsen6182]

I would invite David Brooks to investigate David Alexander on KZbin

[@evelynramos445]

Song played getting my grad degree as w Jack as photoing other gal! The bull of going along to wake to bull as older person.

[@jonmeador8637]

David's response to the question about the Supreme Court's decision on affirmative action is confusing. His arguments against affirmative action support admissions based on it.

[@anncawthon9183]

How many so-called Evangelicals are using religion to defend their political and social points of view and do not pay any attention to the teachings of Jesus? Many with whom I have spoken seem not to understand the ethics or faith of the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount.

[@juditrotter5176]

I was raised by a Bible Belt Dad and a mainline Yankee Mom. My Mississippi cousins were raised with the same philosophy which is “Don’t teach young women how to avoid pregnancy and other women’s health issues. Her husband will tell her what she needs to know when they get married.”

[@glambike]

Is it true? Of course not. I remember being about 10 and listening to a sermon on the burning bush that talks. I was like “No bush can talk, especially a burning one.” And again when I was 16 and Ronald Raygun Reagan was elected President and I said “If an actor can take over this country and seek to destroy unions for his rich friends than there surely is no heaven, hell or God”

[@dawidbuster2961]

tell me how you discern truth?? epistemology matters.

[@user-zh9sq2zk3v]

Mr. Brooks.....you've studied Chistianity....what are your thoughts on Catholicism?

[@mathsinger]

I'm a preacher's kid who is now an atheist. After years of struggle i realized i just don't believe. My father was a liberal activist and i share his values. I don’t believe that you need a god or religion to have good values. But one of the things that atheists lack is community that churches provide.

[@cbudde]

Food for further thought: How does one define “good” values? Who gets to set the definition?

[@hollandp9606]

The biggest disruptor to meritocracy will be when education is based not on how much your parents earn. Everyone much have the same access to education regardless of their family’s financial standing. Having a good education because your paternal are rich doesn’t make you smart. It is.s false impression of intelligence and this is shown in the president. Everyone should be heard regardless of income. This cultural thing is ignoring the main issue in American society? Income inequality. Too often the rich look down on others just because they are rich. The voices of those at the bottom are just as important as the rich, We need education equality based on ability not finances,

[@user-ii3ne4fo4z]

Interesting discussion with David Brooks. I think if a Christian. community is involved in social justice matters , then you see the words of God in action. Some of the Wokeness movement is trying to achieve certain social justice goals. Just something to think about...

[@williamjacobsen2291]

I'm seeing how difficult it must be to be a leader in Evangelicalism when watching how careful Moor has to be lest he say something that will get him in trouble with the Right. It's as though he's gun shyness?

[@DukeOfData]

David Brooks is very insightful. I wonder why he couldn't find his home in Judaism which is what he is.

[@docjaramillo]

Judaism is fundamentally an exclusivist ethnocentric religion. Brooks is too well traveled and cosmopolitan for what amounts to such a provincial world view. The majority of New York Jews are socially isolated fundamentalists. The rest tend to be ‘ethnically Jewish’ The large majority by population are ultra conservative sects of Judaism, like city Amish or Mennonite people.

[@keithwiebe1787]

@@docjaramillo Hey now, I'm Mennonite and am surrounded by 3 Mennonite colleges within 15 miles of my home.

[@999reader]

Doc- Where are your statistics? Where are your data? Why should anyone believe you?

[@user-sw8ux7dg5s]

I loved his pod casts but I got turned off when politics was discussed. This is so personal and wish he wouldn’t express his opinion.

[@bethprather9241]

I do know as an educator now retired , we have clear maps for several years.. Im from Ky central and studying the brain or how kids can score higher etc.. Before Trump in the east.. All of the southern states but maybe Florida were all the same color.. I will use red since it happened with Trump too. So all red in the south idk middle .. But Texas , and California , for sure were all blue amd the north all but Maine. This map Im referring is what I call... the states with the most wealth are also.the most educated.. Crystal clear... Then same thing when Trump run especiallt 2nd time and even in Ky with our Democratic Gov who is probably the best Gov ever... The college towns and largest with wealth plus more this last time all voted for our Dem Gov. With Trump. Both times.. Ky went red. But not in Louisville and Lexington.. second time added Madison amd Bowling Green Boyle.. all college towns.. voted for Biden. I just believe education period is the difference on who voted for Biden and not Trump..IDK party. I just know that the Trump years and new Rep. Party that as more voted it was clear the more educated voters didnt vote for Trump. They are smarter.. Thank God. . It is for sure the top NE schools but college educated towns and larger cities voted for Biden or against Trump too. When so many fell down the rabbit hole and believed the dumbed down fake Trump speeches.. The more educucated didnt believe it. Im glad

[@cbbcbb6803]

Sometimes people loose their religions because their religions were violently taken from them, usually by other religions.

[@andresdevengoechea4947]

Re video sections/chapters, the fourth should be "The Gaze", not "The Gays"

[@craigbritton1089]

Grandparents; free childcare will bring families together

[@stevenhanson6057]

You like your tribe.

[@philmonroe3245]

and it sounds like christian nationalism

[@user-hc9kp5zt6l]

This is great!!! The Church of Ladocia in a polite discussion with the synagogue of Satan.

[@loveearthly]

7:15 This guy probably plants carrot seeds and gets a pumpkin in his garden. Analyzing a ‘Christian prep academy raised elitist society’ as a brahmanical hereditary meritocracy is as tribal as it gets.

[@tacomenudo]

Ive watched Brooks on PBS newshour and I have no respect for his opinions. I can't believe CT interviewed him.

[@craigbritton1089]

I have read your comment and have no respect for your opinion. . I disagree with a lot of things Brooks says; but he actually has something more to say than your equating your opinion with all the data and logic he used in this conversation.

[@cbbcbb6803]

When you use words like "our" and "we", which "our" and which "we" do you mean. I think your problem in that you discount your own tribalism. Dehumanized American would be indeginous Americans and black people. This is not new. And just as a white writer also can write a white character, and most often does write a white character, a black writer can also write a black character. If something is "simplistic", does that mean that it is not true. I think true is true whether simple or complex. Maybe I'm wrong. Conservatism? What if we are both conservative, but, our conservative belief contradict each other? Maybe the most arrived feeling or sensation comes from not being taken seriously by other people. Or being deluded in thinking that others do not take you as seriously as you think you deserve to be taken seriously. Uhhh. ... Did the pilgrims and subsequent invaders (I mean settlers) have grandparents near by? This is not new for America.

[@renzo6490]

Given that people are afraid of death and God's judgement, it is crucially important to them that they feel they are being good and doing right and that the real god is the one they believe in, that he approves of them for their devotion and that salvation can come only from that god. What happens when some other people claim that the REAL god is Allah or Jehovah ?? Their whole system of salvation is threatened. So, it is vital that everyone believes as they do...there is safety in numbers and consensus. A small number of people are capable of transcending these fears.... enough to see that there is a unity that lies behind the appearance of differences. Enough who are not afraid of god's wrath and who don't need to be on the strongest, rightest team. Who don't need to dominate and destroy everyone who feels and thinks differently. Fear is at work in the attitude of these religious fanatics. The irony is that religion's message is that there's no reason to be afraid. People are crazy from fear. I don't know what the answer is other than to demonstrate to the best of your ability, your own faith that there is nothing to be afraid of.

[@i.m.gurney]

An interesting perspective, too anthropocentric though to be comprehensive, you did mention that Judaism was in your mind too focused on the people, would you not agree that this is a problem for all three of the Abrahamic religions. In light of humanity's growing understanding of the universe, I believe we are speciating. Adolescence is a tumultuous period for the individual human. I believe humanity itself has (beginning with Copernicus), entered its adolescent phase, the period where we move out from under the protection of a deity, to stand on our own, taking responsibility for our actions. I can not say how long this transition will take, if I had to offer an answer, some where between the next 100 & 5000 years. I should mention that with all of the above in mind, I view myself as a New Conservative, a Universal Humanist. Classical conservatism as you mentioned is conditioned to incrementally step forward, in light of the rate of knowledge acquirement, I believe this is why it is getting increasingly detached from contemporary thought. New, progressive conservatism understands that humanity is not at the centre of the maths, & that we need to conserve far more than human tradition. note:- We, humanity, are now aware that conservation is hardcoded into the fundamental shape of the universe & the laws that govern it.

[@i.m.gurney]

Onwards & Forwards, into the light.... together. Greater than the sum of it's parts. We budding Homo Nekton.

[@i.m.gurney]

As a Universal Humanist, I can only accept God, if God & the Universe are one in the same, interchangeable terms.

[@arthurmartinson4370]

David Brooks. The man with the $78 airport hamburger. I didn't finish listening.

[@sharonhearne5014]

I will still bet on well educated humans even though many of the situations Brooks describe involve socially privileged people/groups of society who have managed to garner the best socially via critical social alliances through the power of wealth. I don’t disagree with him but it is laughable that Brook’s is speaking to Moore who used to head up my one time religious faith which was the Southern Baptist Convention. Southern Baptist Christians believe the Bible is to be interpreted literally which shuts out so many aspects of intellectual conversation between all elements of society. I respect Moore’s break with Christian fundamentalism but even though his faith approach has broadened it remains limited as to openness to social variety as far as I can tell. All people who are alive want to be acknowledged for their uniqueness even if it means certain small segments want this just as badly as larger more common/typical aspects of society. I will always go with well informed and curiously open views toward people and education.

[@anncawthon9183]

Another thought: high rates of drug addition and unwed parenthood among states in the Bible Belt. Hmmm-- this says to me that Evangelical culture is not serious about following Jesus, but concerned about not losing any white advantage they perceive themselves to have. We would not have an abortion problem if young people were taught and believed in sexual responsibility.

[@nicholascapece]

I would like to make a statement but drinking Bud Light is a bridge too far

[@evelynramos445]

To then sized up as sinners! Hey circus got off!

[@dawnoleary4907]

Need another drink pay for my cheese burger

[@ssake1_IAL_Research]

From my perspective, it's not exactly losing religion that's the problem. It's secularization, which is to say, losing God and losing respect for God. God and religion are not synonymous. This is partly why society lost God in the first place, because religion had become watered down and corrupted; people equated it with God, and threw the baby out with the bathwater. God is Truth; when society throws out God, it throws out respect for Truth, and is left only with relative truths. By definition, relative truth is the same thing as lies (since a lie cannot exist by itself, and depends on having some degree of truth in it). This means that society is now anchorless and rootless, having lost the ability to discern between truth and lies. Hence the multifarious disasters we are currently seeing.

[@Handlethis342]

There is zero correlation between secularism and having “problems.” This is simply an excuse for intellectual dishonesty. Secularism is about forgoing superstition as we become more rational about how the universe works and aware how our minds draw conclusions before the question is even asked.

[@cutformllc3451]

Believing something that's true does mean that it is true. Belief is choice and if you believe that God is real, that's fine but it doesn't mean it's true and does not mean that you are entitled to mandate other people's behaviors on that religion. A secular society means that it allows for the free mobility of belief without subjugation of any one religion.

[@howardlandman6121]

The opposite of "woke" is "slept". :-)

[@craigbritton1089]

Semantics prove nothing. Lots of awake people crash cars. Academic Woke is more hysteria for the modern mind than rational problem solving.

[@CDEllis88]

So Mr. Brooks believes that he is “left” of the gender issue (for a Christian person) because he listens to people and respects them? How fucking twisted is that? Holy shit Americans really are living in the last Century

[@sedumplant]

In the Bible belt, they are not aborting as much?

[@craigbritton1089]

They were before it was banned

[@goodmorning6827]

Made in the image of god? That's silly since there is no god, unless you want tp include santa claus, the easter bunny, humpty dumpty and little red ridding hood.

[@bethprather9241]

Listening again and 😂😂 about, " Barbie ," being slammed by the right. I TOOK my grandaughters and it was funny but interpreted many ways.. Deep. SO anyone slamming it, may have a few real complaints, but it reminds me of how the right slammers again, probably didn't get any deep concepts.. I can just laugh

[@k4walton12]

What I fail to understand is how you all can keep talking about trans folk as if they don't exist. I have to bear witness that they really do exist and many are your co religion issues. Funny how you can dismiss this minority so indiscriminately. Perhaps you need to open your eyes and deign to sit down and talk to, not at, them.

[@tommorrowriver]

A society of myopathy and greed.

[@nuqwestr]

"15-year-old" with "wisdom"?

[@gildedage88]

How truly awful it is, to have been born an American citizen.

[@rochellecaffee1417]

Once, your opinion mattered to me, but my GOD wised me up to CONSERVATISM, and i don’t buy your “free-floating” lack of respect for the TRUTH, anymore, Mr. Brooks. I quit watching PBS long ago.

[@Handlethis342]

Therefore, Tribalism > Intellectualism

[@allanbriggs807]

I am Australian but I watch a lot of American News (I am interested). PBS wuld be one of the most balanced news programs I have seen. Oh and "TRUTH" - now there's a word that means different things to different people.

[@skyegypze3982]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@allanbriggs807 I love PBS and NPR. Great educational shows for adults and children. Music, culture ( not just one), shows etc. And yes, balanced news. There was/ has been actual research done on which media sources produce the most informed viewers and listeners and NPR/ PBS are always at the top. I think it’s interesting that a lot of conservatives( religious or political.) now say they no longer watch or listen to either . It seems they feel too much knowledge derails their kind of truth. Because their religious truth is the only one, and everything else should be built around it. There is a huge anti intelectual tribe, called the GOP in America. And both of these outlets are now frowned upon by them. I can’t tell you how many republicans I’ve hung out with lately, tell me they no longer listen to NPR or PBS. Too woke. They all get the same memo and go out into the world and repeat it. Since you watch PBS you probably know all this already. For some reason I felt the need to counter Rochelle tribalism.

[@rumi9005]

Sorry, I simply DON'T believe buoy should ever be pronounced 'boweey'. It sounds childish. 'buoy' is pronounced 'boy'! Always has been! It's like 'protein' being pronounced 'proteyin'. No! Protein is pronounced 'proteen'. Nobody ever said English pronunciation makes sense. But it is what it is. Stop messing with it!

[@PeloquinDavid]

English pronunciation is NOT and has NEVER BEEN uniform. There is an enormous variation in how pronunciation has evolved in different parts of the "Anglosphere" over the centuries. It's a sign of provincialism to insist on a single "correct" pronunciation based on one's own peculiar dialect.

[@rumi9005]

@@PeloquinDavid -Yeh. You're probably right, David. I grew up in the UK and, with my Dad being an RAF officer, we tended to speak BBC English. So 'mispronunciations' grate on me a bit, still. Cheers.

[@wildernesswordsmith]

Disappointing. Boring, American introspection.

[@F_ckAllTrumpVoters]

The Republican "Party of Personal Responsibility" does nothing but blame their mistakes on other people.

[@LordSlag]

Christian 'leaders' talking about tribalism....the irony is so thick.

[@direwolf6234]

yes they seem to have no tolerance for anyone not on their 'bus' ...

[@aimeec-b6253]

So what you are saying is that an insider should not speak/reflect on their situation, only an outsider should? Who would you suggest to be a worthy voice on tribalism? I would argue both insiders and outsiders should be a part of the discussion… at least if we truly desire genuine reflection and growth on something like this. It makes me wonder, who is not a part of some form of tribe to at least some degree?

[@wayneyoder9548]

From an atheist that appreciates the almost superhuman wherewithal required to go directly against what's wildly popular within one's own tribe: both these men have done that. That we confuse ANY arrived at endzone of sorts with a truth-seeking approach is the more fundamental irony.

[@java4653]

Fake Christians. Republican Party>God+Country.