Losing The Fifty - ZZZ Early 1.3 with

[@Law-of-EnTropy]

20:33 The Old Civilization ended at least half a millennium ago (Qinyi's distorted memories of her past life makes it even look like it was a millennium ago) If we were to guesstimate, Eridu would'v'e lasted for about a hundred years, maybe a couple more And New Eridu is anywhere between 10-15 years since it was established from the ruins of Eridu after the eruption of Hollow Zero The 7 Void Hunters that was shown in the lore trailer were actually alive during the *formation* Eridu (or most of them). Meaning, they were the key figures and founders of Eridu. Before you start the Endless Tower, you actually get the choice to have Kylie talk about the inspiration for it. There she actually just casually drop lore about Joyous. She talked about how he *was* pretty much the Founder of Hollow diving for all Hollow Investigators and Proxies. And throughout the entire dialoue, her use of past tense is very deliberate. As if hammering home that, yes, Joyous has long passed and he was alive when during the establishment of Eridu. And this may be true for all the other Void Hunters we saw on the trailer. With Miyabi in tow, however, it's very plausible for us to expects Void Hunters who were either descendants and/or successors of these Void hunters much like Miyabi is to Swordmaster One key thing about Miyabi's ancestor, Swordmaster, is that she was the person who subjugated a cult called "Exalted Order", which was a cult of Hollow worshipping people after the end of the Old Civilization. This is important because the cult that Spacebar encountered during the Fall of the Capital was the "Order", which he commented that these group of hollow worshippers should have long been dissolved and found it weird they were still around. When Miyabi was talking about chasing down the culprits of the Fall, she might have actually been referring to the exact same cult that her ancestor ended all those years ago. Edit: In one of the current side event with the Bangboo called Snap, they actually talked about syncing with Bangboo which Phaeton was surprised that someone else beside them has that technology. But as the event went on, you actually learn that the Bangboo Sync the person inside Snap is using was significantly inferior to HDD. And this is important, because HDD was the invention of Helios Research Institute, the place that fostered Belle and Wise. What's more, Syncing was the invention of someone from "a long time ago" according to Snap. This is also important because it may actually be referring to Arche, the founder of Helios Research Institute. TOPS (corrupt organization of different corpos) has been wanting to recreate this technology to no avail, confirming that only Phaeton holds the technology that Arche/Helios invented

[@animekid9000]

One thing to clarify in this otherwise excellent post is that we do know when the Fall of the Old Capital occurred specifically. At the end of the Roaming the Ether event there's an additional payphone conversation the Proxy can choose to have with Spacebar's mother and the text there says that the phone number is from ten years ago, suggesting heavily that that is the time frame of the Fall considering Spacebar's journal is largely occupied with that event.

[@SolessSolXS]

holy lore drop. Thank you for clearing some of this up!

[@Pk_Chesire]

An Ether/Anamoly character would go hella hard

[@TheMoonestOne]

That v-idol with black and pink hair could be that, honestly.

[@Pk_Chesire]

@ I missed zhu yuans banner cause I stopped playing but since then I’ve gotten every limited banner character so I’m hoping for an ether character soon

[@kmel3588]

Isn't corruption one of the weaker anomaly effects?

[@TheMoonestOne]

@@kmel3588 I'm pretty sure it's one of the best for Disorder, only losing to Burn. I think it's Burn > Corruption > Shock > Assault > Freeze or something like that, if we consider the usefulness in disorder.

[@CombatPandaZenlessZoneZero]

@@TheMoonestOne Corruption and shock are equal first Burn is worse than them but Burnice adds 3 seconds to the time bringing its level up to the other two

[@divinemusa8731]

I love the lore speculation so much. I learned some stuff and point of views I’ve never thought of from this

[@patman_for_sure]

I lost my 50/50 on Yanagi, but got a Lycaon dupe. Want to save for Miyabi but the temptation to pull is too strong for me God help me

[@vahallen9876]

Wohoooooo podcast time Time to do shiyu defense while I listen to this

[@Lazerproof12]

I'd buy the catching up of Anomaly if literally any of them were Arank.

[@vahallen9876]

Lighter situation is a bit sad, but the upside is that he is not a bad agent, he just lacks teammates Any future Ice or Fire attack agents should work well with him, so atleast in theory (if he doesn’t get powercrept by the time they release more agents that work with him) he will age fine or even great

[@rafaelrose14]

unlikely, seeing how zzz dev always make the new unit works well with their own faction rather than random person wouldnt make lighter BiS in anyteam unless there's new attacker from SoC who could benefit from lighter buff (even then pulchra would probably "powercreep" him lol)

[@jijidu69]

@@rafaelrose14 Yeah this game seems to want you to get like three characters in a row to make a new team. It doesn't seem to encourage older units.

[@Bsuperboss]

W podcast! always love the discussions around ZZZ Can't wait for next time.

[@metalmaestro2590]

Sol’s a great addition, fun chat as usual!

[@animekid9000]

There's some confusion here regarding the timeline that I can clear up. The events discussed in the lore teaser, the time of the first Void Hunters, is not the same as the Fall of the Old Capital. The document about the Void Hunters being read in that video dates from the founding of Eridu, aka the Old Capital in question, so its many generations before current day. Centuries even. (The Fall of the Old Capital in comparison only occurred a decade ago according to the Roaming the Ether event). So yeah. Those original Void Hunters are mostly all dead, which is supported by how they've been discussed in the most recent patch content. This kind of confusion happens a lot partly due to the game not communicating well that Hollow Zero itself predates the Fall of the Old Capital but that's another post for another day.

[@mazamonx]

Sunbringer, Dan and Joyous. Been saving all my Polychromes for them since they were revealed before the game was released.

[@mazamonx]

I also have a feeling that the pink haired Voidhunter Captain is a Demara and related to Nicole somehow. Anby obviously is somehow linked to Soldier 11 and her Demara surname is taken from her relationship to Nicole.

[@zarlom9646]

One thing about harumasa is that according to the leaks he's going to be a free character on 1.4, wich makes sense, because the game is planning to launch in the xbox with 1.4, and a free S rank character is a good way to call peoples attention towards the game

[@StrawHatWavey]

Wheres everyone seeing that there will be an xbox launch?

[@РоманРыжков-я1ъ]

The whole gang together! Love you guys! IMHO Yanagi>Miyabi as character. And i am more then happy with Ellen as my ice dps, even tho she is not as strong as new characters (I just didnt build her well)

[@gonzaloarielgodoylopez5336]

I HOPE the idols comes after miyabi because I don't care to pull on them at all but I really want to get the obol squad. And I'm not going to have any pulls after miyabi (I'm planning on pulling for lighter wengine, asaba wengine and miyabi)

[@susmoves]

25:40 The character the pick hair void hunter looks like isn’t marsh 7th but the herrscher of human Elysia from Honkai impact 3rd

[@MeiEnjoyer]

If you guys are wondering what Trigger gameplay might look like check Shigure Kira from HI3 who is an ice sniper support.

[@deviant315l6]

This is Hoyo we are talking about. Let them cook.

[@TheGekko135]

The yanagi banner was definitely A chore for me. Well, my wallet. But after getting her and her W engine, I can safely say it was worth it. She is by far the current strongest hyper carry in the game. And she's simply just fun as hell to play as.

[@wickednemesis56]

Was wondering where this episode was at. Glad time to listen while I clean.

[@foreuutton7800]

Was waiting for a new episode 😭welcome baaack

[@greatdanchik]

WHAT??? MOON WAS CORRUPTED ALL THIS TIME? This game has huge lore potential and I can't wait to see more of it.

[@yuugael4010]

I wonder why they didnt get character walking is because of that huge character and they dont know how to integrate a walking animation while the pink hair girl is just Elysia from Hi3rd, and I feel like story wise we are only getting tidbits from the fire head dude dansleif style, while we slowly opening up the mistery of what happen to the phaeton siblings which I'm guessing will be a long time if we compare it to genshin which is the closest game we got, cause its set in a different universe than "honkai" they might bring in inspiration like the Raiden thing but they wont make a direct connection to them just like genshin with their own world and lore.

[@StrawHatWavey]

Been waiting on this🔥

[@V-vision]

I'm not concerned with the number of anomaly characters, but it's understandable that people take note of it since there are so many limited S ranks. If they were throwing some A-ranks in it wouldn't be an issue. I also don't think the guys pushed back on the "stunners get a pass" comment enough. The argument that Caesar is basically a stun doesn't support anything. If you go by what she's assigned, she's defender. If you go by what she can do well, it's basically everything but DPS. There's never a reason to exclusively count her as a stunner

[@zmeyka3310]

about 1:02:00 (obol quickscope trigger sniper), she probably could work like the railgunner quickscope from risk of rain 2

[@mrsneed420]

I think dual element characters like miyabi is supposed to be will be like S+ agents for every set of updates. My guess is one of the idols (probably the robot girl) will be ether electric or another combination of two elements. That way they can shift the meta away from what it is at the time. Like right now usually it’s ice and ether then fire and physical. I think once miyabi comes they shift it to fire and ice being together for example. Granted this is just speculation, but either way disorder teams are here to stay.

[@Roe777]

Attack agents should gain Decibels much faster to make them competitive after 1.4 Ultimate rework

[@jaim8147]

I wanted Lycaon alone, I'm sorry I didn't pull for Ellen. Lycaon is popular, but with a certain group of people. I'll include myself, never thought in my life that would happen. I currently have two extra copies of him, as a f2p. 😂

[@Sockscalibur]

(Gi its me, im one of the lore guys xD) I'm with SOL imma NEED Trigger so bad, I am a huge sucker for her type. I'm down with her and obol being in 2.0 so they'd have stronger kits. Future Trigger main as well. I already know I'm gonna be annoying when she gets dripped xD

[@gee_woah]

As an ellen main (m6) I'm still hesitant about pulling Lighter because I play her with M1/P1 Caesar + Lycaon. I'll have to see if it's worth dropping Ellen's passive to play her with Caesar + Lighter. The QoL and buff that caesar provides is so high.

[@axlessr55]

Personally I think unless otherwise killed off, all the other void hunters are alive and miyabi's mom just died during the event that happened 10 years ago. Not a hill I'll die on but that's just how I interpret it.

[@Beyhammer1]

Cool thing to know about thanatos you can hit him while he teleporting like when to can't see him because he teleport then goes inv then reappears so yeah just hit the guy when you can't see hi m it just that simple bro

[@kivy3951]

I personally don't want all the first void hunter to be playable agent. They should put them where they stand as a lore whether they still alive or not. The playable one should be their successor whether via bloodline, a sensei or maybe a DNA clone(like these silver/white hair with yellow eyes) etc. Also, iirc, the first void hunter event in the trailer is happen far too long before the collapse of old eridu

[@mugen1119]

ITS BACK

[@Hanabis924]

Watch out for 1.6. hoyo is notorious for releasing busted characters. Ruan Mei in HSR and Kazuha in Genshin

[@KetteiThe7th_]

We talked about this already in past podcasts

[@chocobo4646]

I'm actually with SOL there on not loving Caesar's gameplay, though, I still think she's fine. While weak enemies aren't ever a worry, being able to knocked-back still makes the enemies attacks something to get annoyed at and consider when fighting. If Caesar's shield doesn't break, you barely need to engage with the enemies beyond a 1-note guitar song with Caesar's parry. It's fine. It can be fun, but not anymore than dodge-attack-dodge-attacking with other characters. I actually still way prefer Koleda to Caesar. Yanagi is really cool. I quite enjoyed spending some time on the solo-fight against Thracian to get a hitless run. Learning the different things about her and keeping the pattern to keep the buffs up was pretty fun, and I felt good that the hitless run also was a quick 66 second. Couldn't even get to ultimate. Playing her did teach me her skill floor is way lower than what I felt like people were saying about her, but I suppose if Jane really is just dash-attack over and over, then I guess needing to pay any attention did make her seem difficult... Anyway, sad I'll be skipping her. Broke after Burnice. Hopefully she's still cool by the rerun... Well, I'm only 23 away from pity... But I can't just throw everything I got during this patch to get to the pity again. I can't. I don't even care about Miyabi, but if I want a strong character, she's right there past the Lighter shaped corner... I can hope to lose the fifty, it wouldn't matter much then... But c'mon, that's silly... It'd be a dumb thing to do. I know gachas. I've been F2P for over a decade. I can save just fine... I can save. ... I mean, even if I go broke again, no one's even considering Pulchra coming before the Idols or Obol. There's no way the character I want since I got Burnice would show up so soon. I got so many patches to save...

[@Aktzin]

I may be an outlier, but I don’t really find Yanagi’s on-field playstyle all that interesting. Sure, she’s grown on me a bit as a character, but using her as a main DPS, like she is on my mono-electric team, is kinda boring. The moveset is hard to understand on paper, but the standard execution is easy to figure out after a few matches. Start with Yanagi, do some damage, apply support character buffs, go back, start applying disorders, repeat. It’s a playstyle that reminds me why I get bored of hypercarries: team rotation is relegated to being about buffs more so than having the best agent out on the field depending on the situation. However, there are teams that get around this. I don’t have Burnice, so I can’t attest to that combo, but I will say that my favorite Yanagi team currently is with Piper and Lucy. I’ve said this in other comment sections: quick-swapping between agents is my favorite way to play. Un-coincidentally, Piper and Lucy are the perfect agents to have in a quickswap setup, as their M6s perfectly complement each other. I’ll be honest though, I still like Caesar with Piper and Lucy better. Btw Caesar is more fun to me as well because I feel like my positioning matters more with her, whereas Yanagi just does it automatically and takes away the strategizing aspect of the movement.

[@ksk20221]

I started the game around Jane Doe release, do you guys think there will be an Ellen rerun soon?

[@Ateaotoko]

Shanaha keeps confusing carole arna and professor arche haha

[@BlobOfZero]

29:30 absolutely sent me😂

[@CombatPandaZenlessZoneZero]

F Thanatos man...also....pretty certain well played Yanagi is number one even without Burnice. I look forward to the death threats 😅

[@mroak345]

WHO IS PLAYING IN THE BACKROUND THIS GAMEPLAY IS HURTING ME 😭

[@KetteiThe7th_]

ALG… I’ll train him more I promise…

[@barnuhbee7]

1:08 AYOOOOO!!!???

[@leonardoelias1147]

hi ❤

[@Holduplethimcook-l5g]

1:03:08 bangboo talking 🤨

[@thelastgamurai]

W

[@divinemusa8731]

1:05:01 MEEEE

[@markmarkmark08]

🫡🫡🫡

[@galukisayaps182]

mm i didnt have a so hard time in the tower, i had to repeat a lot yeah, but i always felt it was my fault and not the game being extremely hard, its like im so tempted to keep attacking and then i get some mistakes and get hit, but my tower was made by yanagi and jane mostly xD, my floor 25 was hard with ellen team, i also tried with my jane but i had her so low in hp and finally tried with mono electric yanagi, seth, rina and it felt way easier, didnt expect it, floor 24 was totally jane carry xD, and ellen did 21 - 23 sacrifying anby and soukaku :P.

[@galukisayaps182]

i tried 26 and 27, but that requires a lot of time, really high difficulty and im not so used to play with no indicators, but at the same time i dont wanna learn all the enemies by heart so im done xD, up to to 25 is my max, after that in my case, caesar would help a looooot

[@mrsneed420]

Past 25 enemies don’t show the little flash when they attack, making it ten times harder and more annoying to attempt

[@galukisayaps182]

@@mrsneed420 yep, I can stand the withering garden at intensity 11, blitz mode, bit I'm lazy for the tower, is a nice challenge but takes too long

[@Xantexhunter]

Soul is really great. I could care less about kettai though. He just rags on people and talks over them. Not even sure why hes on this podcast, his knowledge on gacha in general seems to be less than your average player even Great podcast nonerheless though, except for kettai

[@SohanSmol]

Nah man, the take on 39:40 for me Caesar's biggest problem is the parry sound effect! It just doesn't feel "parry" enough to me. I would do anything for a mod that changes her parry sound to dark souls parry sound or something lol. The defensive assist sounds effect even is so so so much better, at least in my opinion

[@galukisayaps182]

39:34 i might be a noob, but Caesar gameplay felt so boring, even with perfect parry from her ex, i didnt feel the power, nice that u feel it bro, but the most powerful impacts in the game are probably soldier 11 chain attack and ulti, also piper counters, those feel amazing, Yanagi's parry is also great.

[@kiteofdark]

man i just cannot fathom getting even miyabi to m1 when that represents an entirely new character you could play instead. also, i really don't need this game to be easier, so m1 feels even worse to me.

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

I prefer vertically investing I’d rather 4 super strong characters I’m emotionally invested in than 12 characters I sort of care about

[@KibaAzure]

I don't think its ever Hoyo playing catch up. They define the meta and heavily encourage people to pull for and play that meta. The powercreep in ZZZ has felt horrible for anyone who pulled Zhu Yuan or Ellen. They both do significantly less damage at the same level of investment that either Jane or Yanagi do.

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

Ellen does just fine, I’ll continue using her as my main dps till eos

[@juggernaut6666]

So far, story wise, miyabi hasnt impressed me at all. And her "dreams" as they put it seem very scum baggy, on par with acheron.

[@thegamewoods8473]

She feels like a more competent Anby. Deadpan but kinda dim, but absurdly strong so no one can check her for it. Aka. My type-

[@mrsneed420]

She’s a kuudere like rei ayanami from Eva yet without the peak writing. Ellen definitely a better personality wise