"Lost" F-35B Mishap Report FINALLY Released

[@WardCarroll]

NEW INTEL: The mishap pilot was NOT the MAG-31 CO. It was Col. Charles "Tre" Del Pizzo, who just took over VMX-1 three months ago and was relieved of that command by the Commandant of the Marine Corps because of this crash.

[@matthewcoleman1919]

Oof. Maybe publish the name of the guy it WASN'T? Just a thought.

[@tomwilson1006]

Thank you for clarifying, as I was mistaken.

[@jamesgunnyreed]

@@matthewcoleman1919 It was NOT Colonel Dustin Byrum.

[@michaeldwyer9656]

If one views the outstanding video of Mike "Nasty" Manazir (not Ward's, but Nasty being interviewed way earlier) regarding Nasty's EJECTING earlier in his U.S. Navy career, and ultimately serving as XO of an aircraft carrier, I think "Tre" should have received better treatment.

[@matthewcoleman1919]

@@jamesgunnyreed Thanks for that. Wasn't trying to be a jerk, just didn't want some guy's name floating around in the ether.

[@richardspencer1763]

@WardCarroll. I’m a retired Public Safety Dispatcher. You are right to say that we hear a lot of strange things. Having a person on the phone that says they ejected from a plane is a new one. Pretty much all 911 agencies use Emergency Medical Dispatch for medical calls. Some agencies have it built into the computer and the must ask and answer each question to move on. Clearly she was thinking of this call as an injury from a fall, which it is, sorta. And that is why the questions did not sound that logical. I would like to compliment you on the way you handled the one comment that came up questioning the dispatchers training. We are very highly trained at the normal stuff and have to do the best we can at calls such as this. Thank you for sharing this accident information. Keep doing what you do.

[@drn13355]

I was a Blackhawk crew chief and I agree. Non standard radio traffic is unexpected and takes time to clarify. It is easy listening on you tube after knowing exactly what happened to judge. When 90% of the calls are for fender benders or street flights is it s little confusing. Also the homeowner had an accent which made it more difficult to understand.

[@MCMXI1]

There's a very large FAA ATC (ARTCC) facility near me. When President Regan fired the striking Air Traffic Controllers in the PATCO union, six of the fired controllers took jobs at the County's 911 center that dispatches police fire and EMS for a million people. Within one year they had all quit and in their exit interviews every one of them cited stress as the sole reason for leaving. LET THAT SINK IN! GA pilots love to bag on Controllers and the public loves to throw shade on Dispatchers, but no one understands a Controller or Dispatcher's job until they've worked a console for a living.

[@Guysm1l3y]

Here's the thing: you just took a lightning bolt and shiny attitude reference #1 and #2 both shit the bed. I guarantee the mishap pilot had zero faith in what shiny attitude reference #3 was displaying in that jet.

[@jamesmurray3948]

Off topic about lightning. My buddy tried to top a tstm in a T-38 at 45000'. Came out the bottom at 15000' less one running engine and everytime he touched the stick on the way down he got a shock. My story some years later: Memory is a little hazy but we were climbing out of a Carribean Island on a rainy night sometime in the 1980s in a B-727. I was the Flight Engineer. Shortly after takeoff a flight attendant rang us and I answered. She said "what was that?" We 3 crewmembers had seen and felt nothing. She said lightning hit 1 wingtip and came in through a window , went up and down the aisle, and went out the other window to the wingtip on the other side. We had no malfunctions or indications in the cockpit and the Captain asked me to check the cabin. When I opened the cockpit door I saw a whole cabin of startled eyes. No damage and no injuries. Proceeded on the flight. After landing we checked and both wingtip lightbulbs were melted.

[@MoreFormosa]

that’s crazy, glad no damage, as I’m sure everyone else thought too

[@ChadDidNothingWrong]

What the shlt😮

[@ChadDidNothingWrong]

My grandmother was a stewardess for American in the 60s on a DC-3. She said one night flying out from Las Angeles (to maybe Hawaii?) this electrical phenomenon happened where a wad of electricity entered from the back, slowly floated up the aisle, and went through a window up near the front. What she described sounded like ball lightning to me, which is pretty neat. …and apparently the less crazy part of the story was that Jimmy Stewart happened to be on that flight. Back then flying was still pretty exclusive, so you would regularly meet people like that on the Los Angeles routes. Not unusual like it is today. Anyway she said it scared the hell out of everyone, and he apparently tried to calm everyone down acting like that stuff happens all the time and was completely normal.

[@gerhardgotzmann8880]

Yes, but that was a 727 - which was cool and invincible. (I flew it from all three cockpit seats)

[@jamesmurray3948]

@@gerhardgotzmann8880 I would say you can't fly a 727 from the FE seat but, actually, good FEs "flew" it mentally and were totally involved with what was going on up front.

[@LunaticTheCat]

As someone who follows both your channel and aircraft investigation channels, this video was an absolute treat!

[@fredgrigsby2682]

I spent twelve years as an Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army and eight years as a Logistics Officer in the U.S. Air Force Reserve. No matter how much planning, risk management, safety briefing, simulator training, one does to prepare and execute a mission or task, sometimes something just goes wrong. As you said, there isn't malice or negligence involved. (S)h*t happens. After action and safety boards are convened and problems are identified such as the one found on Page 34, Sentence 23, corrected and then updated in the manual and distributed through the Department of Defense to prevent future mishaps. The most important and biggest take away, is the Marine and a brother in arms went home that evening. Thanks for the video. It was well thought out and presented. One team, one fight. Rangers lead the way.

[@jeremycox2983]

amen to that as long as the crew goes home safely that’s what matters in the end.

[@victorfinberg8595]

kind of hard to have a protocol in place for "struck by lightning ... or IN a lightning, struck by lightning"

[@abelabner]

Love these deep dives and the insight provided by the former Aviators, especially the "inside knowledge" that Mooch and Hozer provided. So very interesting to me.

[@GLEX234]

A friend got out of a T-38 in Mississippi. He was met by a local cop and driven to the base in Columbus, MS. The cop was passed by someone far in excess of the limit. My friend just said, “go ahead, pull her over, I got time”. Sure enough, she got a ticket. There’s no ejection story I won’t believe.

[@danrichardson4275]

Exploding bolts don't just blow.

[@therealuncleowen2588]

Are you referring to Gus Grissom's mishap? Just wondering if you are aware his capsule was recovered a few years ago and enabled the confirmation that Grissom did not blow the hatch, there was a short circuit when the helicopter touched the capsule's recovery hook. Not preaching, just passing along new-ish info. Well, I'm 53. A few years ago to me might be a decade. I'm not sure how recently.

[@DB-rg2dk]

Thanks Mooch for this update, '98 here, 23 years active and reserves and spent 3 years as an ASO. Fun Fact, I was a pilot who flew rubber dog stuff out of hong kong. Best flying job in the navy that isn't flying with hair on fire.

[@mja12685]

Ward, as a civilian pilot from the 121 world I truly enjoy your breakdowns and all that you do. Keep up the great work.

[@GLEX234]

Mooch, I’ve told my ejection story and every time I say ejected, the assumption is I fell out of the plane. Then, I mention the parachute it’s either, “oh, you had a parachute, no big deal” or “where the chute come from?”

[@tooitchy]

LOL hold on, I thought the whole reason for Top Gun was to educate the public about ejection seats!

[@andrewlangley679]

@@tooitchy You know the expression, "lead a horse to water but can't make him drink"?

[@Emlizardo]

Thanks Mooch and Hoser for expertly parsing this report for us while it's hot off the press. (Every once in a while I still watch that newscast where the guy describes the pilotless F-35 screaming over his house and crashing, with sound effects: "HHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEE! - BOOM!")

[@barthchris1]

Lol! I know exactly who you're talking about. I have a neighbor who's a spitting image of that guy in every way. Age, Looks, voice, mannerisms.. Really nice guy, who would give you the shirt off his back. You'd probably think I live in the middle of an old cotton field somewhere in the deep south. Nope, just barely in the South, just a stones throw from the Chesapeake Bay, 30miles SE of Washington DC. My property was part of former tobacco plantation, neighbor is a direct descendent of slaves , then sharecroppers.. Surprisingly, the descendants of the plantation owner still live on a sizeable fraction of the original property. He's also a neighbor. despite a large disparity in wealth, both neighbors have been good friends since childhood. Both have large families, to this day they consider each other family. Spend holidays together. Something I didn't think was possible given the typical narrative.

[@Some_Beach]

The irony of the F-35 LIGHTNING not being lightning proof

[@RagsHSC-7]

🫣 There is some irony in that comment 🤣😅😂

[@tony-does-stuff]

I mean, the plane technically was lightning proof, it was the pilot who wasn't. The plane kept flying and was, by the report's own words, still flyable. The pilot panicked.

[@lizmallard7158]

@@tony-does-stuff. Fair enough. Put yourself in the cockpit under these circumstances and see how you manage. None of us are bulletproof And I’m guessing there’s more to this story that we will ever know. They have had good go at stuffing the pilots life up in the meantime.

[@RagsHSC-7]

@@tony-does-stuff Right by the right knee of the pilot is a vertical reference. Shows you your attitude, your AOA angle of attack and it is not digital. It is a old message but I wish they would have put a gimbal there rather than just an AOA reference. In high and dense MCI conditions can get you disoriented very quickly. But the AOA would have given him time to get above the clouds or below into vrf conditions. All models have that the alpha bravo and Charlie. Alpha models for the Air Force. Bravo for the Marines and Charlie models are for the US Navy. There should be a gimbal where it will give you not only your AOA but also your pitch. But there is an old analog AOA right by the right knee of the pilot and it's not top secret. It's already been put out there to the public so I'm not revealing anything.

[@RagsHSC-7]

@@tony-does-stuff Right by the right knee of the pilot is a old style. AOA, reference gauge. It's not a gimbal for roll but it does give you the AOA for pitch. Now the thick of it like you're flying in a closet. You can climb and if you're pulling back and you're not climbing, that means you're sideways so you can get your roll reference from your inputs. Nevertheless, we bought that plane. We the people the tax paying dollars purchase that aircraft. With that being said and you have to understand the mind of the pilot at the time. If the plain or the military aircraft is still flying and the engines and all input functions are cooperating, they have to revert back to Old School tactics. If you ask anybody today how to get from where they are to the other side of town. 99% cannot tell you that without looking at a Garmin. People can't even look at a old standard clock. Can tell you what time it is anymore and no more than they can look at a map and tell you how to get there. When you rely and get complacent the latest and greatest gadgets. You don't use the skills that you were raised on. Now you're just using somebody else's skills to rely on and somebody can get really uncomfortable real quick. The last thing a pilot wants to do, especially a military pilot is want to eject. An old US Navy tomcat pilot. He went to make him maneuver and he felt something in the stick and he asked his wingman to look at him and he was blowing out hydraulic fluid. It doesn't have a redundant system of cables either. It totally relies on hydraulic fluid in electric hydraulic actuators to swing wings so he got the wings out and you have to go buy policy to land as soon as possible. To the letter it does not say land at the nearest airport. So this Navy pilot his name is Heater. God bless his soul 🕊️ when he got it back on ship and with only one engine and no hydraulics who is by the grace of God he could have missed the trap by 1 in. When they were done? Grumming had vacuumed out all the hydraulic fluid that was left in the aircraft and there was only a half a pint. Yes, you read that right. Half a cup 6 oz. They could not figure out why these tomcats were falling out of the sky because the pressure was so high. It would blow a hole right through the side and it would come out like a stream or about 18 in and then just turn into a mist. If heater did not have his wingman to show him and get him back on board to carrier it would have been a problem for a very long time and unfortunately we did lose a crew. There are two people in each tomcat. Orange the pilot one is the rio. Radar intercept officer. With the harrier jump jet as the bravo model of the jsf35 for the Marines, they don't have that. They have 4 buttons. 1 is standard flight? 4 is landing vertically? 2 & 3 are in between for takeoff and slowing down for vertical hover. There's a maximum weight for vertical landings. They have a nice big dashboard in the f-35 but most of the information is in the helmet. They can look right through the damn floor and see what's underneath them. Backup camera unnecessary. Pretty cool but I agree that no pilot with less than 200 hours should be able to fly any of those assets that cost millions and millions of dollars for each aircraft in poor weather conditions. Only after they experience and have enough seat tied. They have to rely on the old gauge and they should make it a gimbal not just an attitude, climbing or descent. I also think they should have a gimbal and a standard altitude meter by the right knee. But yeah it can get complicated real quick.

[@joeblow5037]

old 2nd Marine Air Wing Beaufort VMFA-333 F-4J Vet here. Great times....and we did the 1st cruise on the brand new USS Nimitz in 1976 to the Med (7 months). We were not VTOL

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Dont lie to me, we all know the F-4 was secretly VTOL! 🤣 /s for the dense ones...

[@davidbaldwin1591]

34:48 "Big Gucci digital display". Brings back Blazing Saddles Sheriff memories.

[@tzazarizona2676]

My time as an airdale white hat at NAS Sanford, Fl and aboard various carrier deployments, I witnessed and we had more then a few crashes.Military flying is dangerous, the pilots deserve the thanks of all Americans. An old sailor.

[@samuelhowie4543]

I remember a group of doctors that did a study on the stress Navy pilots went through during the Vietnam war and they were surprised that the highest level of stress was landing on the carrier, not while they were flying over North Vietnam.

[@MrMooneyer]

Thanks!

[@usethenoodle]

I'm certainly not a Naval Aviator but I'm a huge fan. I thank both of you fine men for walking us through this report. I'm very glad the pilot is OK and that the aircraft impacted in the woods away from persons on the ground. This could have been so much worse. The scenario sounds like a very difficult situation, and I'm sorry it happened. I hope the pilot has a successful rest of his career and an enjoyable retirement when ever that may be. Mainly I hope he can find inner peace with himself and not judge himself too harshly. He was dealt a bad hand. My best to him.

[@wamanning]

it is a semantic difference, but a difference that matters -- even if the aircraft isnt tumbling out of the sky, if its not doing what the pilot wants it to do flight safety says it is indeed "out of control".

[@charlesdavis7940]

Flying is a younger man’s game. As you get older, have wife and kids, you naturally become less risk adverse. Along with that, your thinking slows down. Of course, many have died when they waited a second too long to make the decision. Others eject at the last second. Yeah, it’s a lot of money. But I’d rather pilots get out on the alive side of that balance. The man gave over 30 years to his country. Glad he’s alive.

[@ScottS.Netser]

Great Show...!! As Always

[@GolfVictor4]

Perfect, a new Flip book while I wait for Punk's next one. I'm finishing The Silver Waterfall, then High End! Thanks so much to both of you!

[@markrobinson3643]

Missed the live but wanted to bring up another point. Glass cockpits can lead to serious information overload.

[@jimbob1427]

Thanks for this top quality contenet ward . Very interesting 👌

[@manfredstrappen7491]

Let’s give a shout out to the one pilot that had the balls to evaluate the risk vs reward and stayed on the ground. That’s the pilot you want.

[@gerhardgotzmann8880]

Yes if this was an airline operation, Military - no. Think war only happens in good weather? Training has to be realistic or it’s worthless.

[@rudyyarbrough5122]

There was no ground discovered risk here, it was a lightening strike. No prefight would have discovered any fault with the airplane.

[@Wills7MGTE]

Ward; my dad was in the USMC EOD shop at Cherry point from 88 to 98. Loved living at Cherry Point! Also thanks for your service and amazing content, you had the second coolest job in the world only superseded by a Tomcat Pilot ;)

[@jimmyf14]

The backup EADI has a square shape rather than more conventional circle like the old steam gauges. I think that may have lead to “not knowing what. Instrument to trust,”. Former Grumman Crew and Equipment Engineer F-14, EA-6 X-29 cockpits.

[@karlswope2331]

Welcome to Criteria-Based Dispatch (CBD). The dispatcher has to ask the questions or in certain jurisdictions they will be in for disciplinary action. Many 911dispatch systems are contract and Not civil service.

[@ziggyblue782]

Yeah, she sounded like a small town dispatcher. I say that not being familiar with the area. Probably new as well. She did her best. We all get better at the job with time.

[@NormalShock]

Seems like the report has thrown the pilot under the bus for the express purpose of protecting the training syllabus specifically and the F35 program as a whole. A single line item, buried in the entire report barely mentioning the training process, only reinforces that.

[@waynewells4885]

This business of taking on a new command and subsequently getting fired from that command is odd. As you said the USMC aviation community is small and you know better than me but I would think the commandant who just fired him also signed off on the orders sending him to what sounds like a new type of command. So you stand up a new command, assign the guy as CO, then turn around and fire him. There's more to this or so it seems.

[@Skyhawks1979]

You've hit on the most interesting and unusual part of this story. If the 31 October issue of the Marine Corps Times is correct, the mishap pilot (MP) was NOT the MAG or Wing Commander. He is currently in flight status as the Commanding Officer of VMX-1 (Yuma), a test and evaluation squadron. (Mooch rightly live streamed and corrected this). Mishap happened in September 23, JAG report out in January, 24 and the MP assumes command in Yuma in June 24 and relieved BY the Commandant in October 24. All of this AFTER being cleared of responsibility for the mishap by a Field Flight Proformance Board (FFPB) in June. MP is a Harrier pilot.The Assistant Commandant for Aviation, Lt Gen Gering is a Harrier pilot. The MP was either serving or had very recently served as a Branch Head at the the Department of Aviation when this mishap occurred (a direct subordinate to Lt Gen Gering). In this role the MP and Lt Gen Gering would have been in daily contact, working in basically the same Pentagon office. Lt Gen Gering would also have been the final deciding authority on the FFPB. It is unusual for the Commandant to be involved in this relief. However, there was Congressional interest in this mishap by the South Carolina delegation because of the unmanned aircraft traveling within the state. Perhaps in the followup to the congressional interest the Commandant not only realized the MP was not only again flying, but leading one of the highest visibility aviation commands in the Corps? Would have liked to heard the conversation between Gering and Smith.

[@KevElder]

Any idea why the ELT didn’t go off? Seems dash-2 and tower would have hear the ejection on guard.

[@michaelrunnels7660]

Flying IMC with instruments that aren't working correctly may not be the manual's definition of out of control, but no pilot under those circumstances can keep control for more than a few seconds.

[@jerseyshoredroneservices225]

If I understood correctly his secondary flight display was working properly, he just wasn't confident enough to trust it, or didn't think to even look at it when the PFD went out.

[@byronjaffe518]

The plane flew for 63 miles after he ejected

[@sparkzbarca]

​@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 that's not entirely correct. It was his tertiary that he had to use. So his primary is his helmet visor display. His secondary is a large display as would be found in a traditional aircraft without an in helmet HUD. His third was a small little box. It's true that having both his displays fail three times caused him to doubt the reliability of the third one. He believed the aircraft was still in stow condition as well and was not responding to the request to transition to flight mode. If it's not obvious as a pilot if you are in stow or flight mode without electronics then it is at least reasonable to believe it's uncontrollable as it's not in your opinion responding to your control inputs

[@jerseyshoredroneservices225]

@@sparkzbarca You're right and in the subsequent video on this incident it was easier (for me at least) to understand about the first, second and third flight control displays. I would just say that wasn't without electronics. He did have the third display, the peanut. Had he trusted it he would have been able to know the attitude of the aircraft and determine that it was safely flying. I'm not saying that it's a reasonable expectation because I don't know that he had sufficient training and repetitions to do that under the circumstances. To get that right might require near perfection and that might be an unreasonable standard to expect but but I don't really know enough to judge that. It's also possible that given the training he had, he should have been able to figure it out, I don't know. Apparently the Marine Corps feels that he should have been able to figure it out, or it's a conspiracy and they're throwing him under the bus. Again, I don't know.

[@luddite4change449]

I'm not an aviator, but a retired three decade officer with multiple combat deployments and years of time in "hazardous duty" pay assigned positions. I took time out to read the accident report earlier today. The report blaming "pilot error" strikes me as Monday Morning Quarterbacking" of a several second life or death decision. How many fatal civilian and military aviation accidents have we all read about where a person let seconds slip by trying to work the problem? I'm going to trust the judgement of a 3,000+ hours pilot (1,200 hours in the airframe) at 1,900 ft AGL. Could the aircraft have continued to fly with him in it? Maybe? We know after the fact that the airframe continued in flight, but we don't know what would have happened if he (and his helmet) had stayed with the aircraft.

[@beckyumphrey2626]

The pilot allowed psychological stress to drive a bad decision.

[@luddite4change449]

@@beckyumphrey2626 He had to make a decision based on the limited information available to him, and knowing that he was potentially 10 seconds or less from impacting the ground. The folks that pinned blame on him had a months to determine that another course of action might have been better.

[@RolfLongreach]

I agree. With the few seconds pilots have to make these decisions maybe in hindsight sometimes it wasn't necessary. He was an experienced pilot and made the call based on what he thought and his experience. I worry blaming him will make some other pilot stay in too long because they don't want to be similarly chastised.

[@ILruffian]

This. The report's conclusion was likely motivated by the fact that he caused embarrassment to the 'corps when the plane went missing after he ejected. As per the report, he followed the direction of the flight manual in ejecting.

[@KeepItSimpleSemperFi]

Bravo Zulu for the respect you pay to the process.

[@utubeflyer]

Latest news on the pilot: Del Pizzo pointed to the mishap investigation’s conclusion that he conducted the flight using the proper procedures and was not derelict in his duty. He also said a Field Flight Performance Board was convened to review the incident and concluded his decision to eject was justified. Del Pizzo said he was restored to full flight status in June “after complying with all board recommendations.” But Del Pizzo’s split-second decision to eject from the F-35 has now cast a shadow over his accomplished career, and left his future uncertain. Del Pizzo said he has been offered his choice of follow-on assignments, and he and his family are now considering his next steps.

[@ILruffian]

THIS. He followed proper procedure. But the plane flew on and went missing for several hours, embarrassing the corps. Sack his ass!

[@notmenotme614]

Surely that’s a contradiction. Unless his change in assignment was politically motivated to appease others? However it does remind me of those at the top “resigning” after an incident rather than being fired, to save their embarrassment.

[@brianford8493]

Great stuff as per usual Ward.....Ta!✌️

[@dcooper8588]

Great episode…your comments and wisdom are superb! Great entertainment 😊

[@JPM-NM]

So an airplane called the Lightning II doesn't do well when struck by lighting?

[@forensicscienceconsultants5983]

Thanks for the update! Also, I just finished the Raven series! Outstanding and thank you Hozer!

[@stevenwalker4181]

Ok. As a very old former safety officer. This mishap had a sequence of events. 1-Weather that deteriorated well below ATIS 2-Lack of update on weather by ATC 3-Loss, failure of both primary and secondary attitude reference instruments. The fallback was a small emergency backup. 4-Failure of the pilot to recognize his aircraft’s flyabilty with the instruments available in IMC conditions. 5-Ejection from what was in actuality controlled flight. LL: 1-More partial panel training in IMC is very likely required. 2-More study on F-35’s susceptibility to lightning strikes may be needed. This is still a new airplane and I hope the safety board addresses what I perceive are potential training and susceptibility issues.

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

The fallback was a small emergency backup?

[@stevenwalker4181]

@ yes. His helmet display is primary, his PCD a backup, and the small display down by his legs is really only for emergencies when the other two fail. Not a great location but it is there.

[@tony-does-stuff]

You're missing a couple extra key points. -the pilot only had 32 hours of flight time on this aircraft. And apparently, according to some commenters, those hours were not in the aircraft itself, but in the simulators. -the pilot was not intended to fly that aircraft that day. His position within the F-35 community combined with his rank is what put him in the cockpit that day. -I need to confirm this, but according to another commenter, a third pilot was supposed to fly at the same time and that pilot had declined to fly because they believed the conditions were unsafe. EDIT: Page 13 item 67 confirms this point. Still reading through the report. I fail to see how a seasoned pilot with 3000 hours of flight time, multiple combat missions, and someone the rank of an O-6 was able to make the decision to fly knowing how bad the weather was, in clear and sound mind. Furthermore, I find it rather suspicious that the pilot claims the helmet began displaying multiple warnings, and then the helmet was "ripped off" during ejection yet there appear to be no related head injuries. That implies either he was wearing the helmet improperly (which is rather unbelievable considering his credentials), or, and this is just a thought, perhaps the helmet was disposed of purposefully to avoid becoming evidence and disproving his story. I'd be curious to see if the helmet is ever found and what the data would show from it if data can be pulled from the helmet.

[@stevenwalker4181]

@ If he lost his helmet and PCD along with primary comm in IMC at 2000ft during approach transitioning to mode 4 STOL mode he had his hands full. Fact he had such few hours makes it worse. Further this new idea of shutting down a base and flying from a civilian field just boggles my mind even more. I’m an old retired guy and we didn’t shut down on the weekends. And I also do agree that if one pilot chose not to fly after doing an operational risk assessment, why did the other two feel it was ok. Still doesn’t change my two institutional recommendations but I’d add a review of ORM as well.

[@gerhardgotzmann8880]

Exactly right. Lesson learned. He should not be fired over this.

[@AutonomousNavigator]

The 'peanut gyro' in the F-35 is larger than most steam gauges in a light aircraft. When I lost vacuum in the soup in a C172 25 years ago, that 'peanut gyro' would have been a big help.

[@cloudshe]

yeah, turn and bank indicators are pretty sketchy imo

[@notmenotme614]

What did you do in this situation?

[@LetsKeepThePeace]

The way i understand it is that the third instrument (peanut gyro) was also digital. After 2 out of three digital instruments fail i would likely not trust the third one. Not to mention we are not talking high altitude here. He was below 1900 feet. How far under i don't know, but if the plane don't react the way he thinks (instruments could not reliably verifiy if he was in flight mode or not) he has not much time to live.

[@GreatEasternRail]

EXCELLENT analysis, Ward, for us who have not had the opportunity to participate in U.S. Naval Aviation‼Your channel is an excellent place to understand how taxpayer dollars are being spent as well as introducing us citizens to the HUMANITY and training of military air crews. Am again going to Thank You for your service and especially Thank You for making the effort to put up such a WORTHWHILE channel‼👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@C_C_SEA]

Next go'round set your pdf viewer to "Fit to width" (tiny book icon top dead center). Am on a 28" HD monitor at 1080p (your video's max resolution) full screen and cannot read the mishap report text.

[@zaphodb9213]

Google it. I read it a few days ago.

[@knobbykneepaddler]

Comforting to know our bases are only fully ready M-F.

[@jeremyperala839]

That is what a nearly trillion dollar defense budget allows.

[@michaelvaldez5177]

The acronyms are killing me! Could every now and then refresh our memories?

[@KyleCowden]

This Army vet was up to his neck in Navy and JAG Corps a month and a half ago. My (probable) future BiL was installed as JAG of the Navy. Met and rubbed elbows with SECNAV and CNO. I needed some serious green after all of that white. RE: 911 Operator - More and more PSAPs are using proven and algorithmic call screening/pre-arrival interrogation scripts. The point is to dispatch the appropriate level of response and provide indemnified pre-arrival medical and hazard mitigation instructions. At issue is almost all 911 centers are unsworn personnel. In Dallas, PD was unsworn while my department (fire) was all sworn field personnel. The grading of calls under our system were pretty strict but having emergency responders on the line we'd be able to go off script. Non-sworn centers have no knowledge base to do that. I don't fault her. I fault the money driven push to eliminate uniformed personnel in call centers.

[@stevenjermy1098]

Great analysis Mooch. My final job, and great privilege, as a naval aviator was to command Britain's Fleet Air Arm. Hoser's key observation, "There but for the grace of god ..." leads to two key deductions. First, keep the culture and don't crucify naval aviators for genuine operational mistakes that we might all have made, learn instead. Second, we need to sensibly push operational limits in peace if we are to be successful in war, for which open culture is key.

[@TobinTwinsHockey]

“What weapons were you carrying” probably referred to aircraft stores not sidearms.

[@waynewells4885]

I googled the location of the crash site and I can tell you a couple of things. Crash site was said to be in Indiantown, SC. That plane was out in the Boondocks with a capital B. I travel through the general area and it is just miles and miles of pine forests and cotton field. Not hard to understand why it took a while to find the aircraft. I can also speak to thunderstorms in the general area of Charleston are epic bad with lots of lightning. Charleston AFB is also a commercial airport and may be the busiest in SC. The Boeing 787 factory is also there. That is full on Charleston as far as urban environment. All of these towns have all sort of merged into this sprawling Charleston region.

[@kevin.keen.socialmedia]

Mooch: an F-35B can be fitted with underwing hard points for just about anything you could care to add when stealth isn't a concern.

[@scott.wallace8625]

Congratulations on the book

[@DashiellParr411]

Great brief! What caught my attention is the bases being closed on the weekends! So bad guys will attack on the weekends 😬

[@WJV9]

I'm sure they are 'on call' 24/7/365.

[@anthonykaiser974]

Unless you're forward deployed (i.e a CSG) or have something identified as an imminent threat, people have some semblance of a life in peacetime. Train hard 4-5 days per week and let the security guards and the Installation Operations Center hold down the fort on the weekend. The higher you go up the food chain, the more people work weekends keeping an eye on the situation. The Pentagon never sleeps.

[@NorrisAnderson-hn4xn]

Excellent informative content in this video.

[@jerryraz5294]

Well done and thanks.Jer

[@lawrenceralph7481]

Fascinating information. Thank you.

[@beerdrinker6452]

Always good information presented fairly.

[@richardcassara8876]

Ward - Great work, as usual. Had I been able to ask, my questions would have been: 1. How much applicable simulator time did he have and when was the last time he logged simulator time? 2. What was the last aircraft he flew (with significant time in type)? 3. When was the last time he logged actual instrument time? 4. How long ago was his last hop in the aircraft? 5. If the weather was forecast to be bad enough for the other (more experienced?) instructor pilot to cancel himself out of the 3-plane hop, why didn't this low-time pilot do the same? Rick Cassara A-6 BN, VA-145, PMTC Point Mugu, Carrier Group Seven staff, VA-128, VA-165, CMVWP staff, VA-145 (XO, CO)

[@drjukebox3882]

I don't think the concept of having a red flashlight pre-pointed at the instruments before a night cat shot applies to a daylight mission that suddenly turns dark in a thunderstorm. Given the reaction of the human iris to a blinding flash of lightning, I have a lot of sympathy for this pilot.

[@johnrusac6894]

As if pointing a red flashlight at an LCD screen would contribute to anything.

[@anthonykaiser974]

​@@johnrusac6894if you were talking about an LED display, that would have made more sense. LCDs actually need a light, whether backlight, built-in screen light like your old Timex, Casio, etc., or external, to read that black character on a gray screen.

[@grimmig13]

The frustration in talking to 911 is that active listening is not a requirement when they hire operators.

[@infozencentre]

It wasn't exactly a regular call, and to be honest the colonel didn't explain himself concisely and proffesionally either, he was like 'well I know this information why don't you?' No wonder they retired him, it's not just the crash was bad, he didn't demonstrate great situational responsibility and I'm sure they listened to that call and added it in

[@kylecarmichael5890]

I feel so sorry for the dispatcher. I was a paramedic and they use CAD, Computer Aided Dispatch. I can almost promise her system has no clue what to do and she is trying her best to follow the prompts. She is at NO FAULT. She is doing her best.

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

Maybe Maybe she could have acknowledged the fact and tried to go through the list WITH him and maybe recognize that some things don't apply. As in, have a conversation with another human being who is in crisis.

[@tooitchy]

@@ronaldkonkoma4356 Gotta remember she's at work, her job is quite literally to save lives when time is of the essence, they have a mandatory system to handle calls, with inputs on her end required in accordance with the caller on the other end. The calls are recorded, and she will be judged for this, her job almost guaranteed on the line. If she breaks protocol and just speaks off the cuff without the proper inputs on her end, she may not get the right people called, but she can't just punch inputs randomly or she'll get armed swat rolling up on this dude thinking he's got hostages and is firing from a barricaded position. Not everything is as easy as it seems from our end.

[@victorfinberg8595]

@@ronaldkonkoma4356 she is quite literally PROHIBITED from doing what you suggest. and maybe YOU spend 5 hours a day playing war thunder. maybe SHE does not. i hope you can see why that matters

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

@@victorfinberg8595 are you being informative or hurtful?

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

@tooitchy still not as bad as the 911 call from Philadelphia where the duck boat was sinking. You're calling 911 because there's a duck in the water?

[@robinhogg5254]

I read the heavily redacted report and there's no specific reference to lightning, just electrical transient events that caused functional problems. I guess admission of it being a lightning strike would be politically damaging with the suggestion being a top of the line military vehicle is not capable of operating under lightning strike conditions. If it wasn't lightning then its a design problem related to EMC/electrical/software weaknesses which i hope they've got a handle on the cause and a solution in the works.

[@notmenotme614]

When I was a maintainer we had an jet that had a lightning strike. It landed fine without any issue. We figured out the entry was on the radome, the lightning then tracked along the spine of the jet and exited from the tail. We had to replace every composite panel along the spine and removed all the avionics for testing as precaution. Interestingly, some types are designed with lightening conductor strips within the composite panels. Maybe to shield components or direct the lightning track?

[@bretrudeseal4314]

I am concerned about the fact that this very expensive aircraft doesn't have adequate back up instruments that are less likely to losing instruments due to a lightning strikes.

[@timblack6422]

Love these updates!

[@angrydachshund]

There is a "fall height" field on her computer that tells the medics what to expect. Wish I had been a fly on the wall of that EMS post when the call came in...

[@tallboy2234]

Excellent info! 👍😉

[@dblgonzo]

While watching this on my news feed a report released that the pilot was relieved of command.

[@jamienash6490]

Launch the alert livestream😆😆😆 I love it.

[@markseaton7863]

Thank You

[@M1903a4]

Everything is gone but the little screen by his knee. It looks like yet another electronic screen, not a steam gauge gyro. My aircraft, a Mooney, had a subset of gauges that are simple steam gauges that are independent and will work pretty much under any circumstance. Not much more than needle, ball & airspeed, but I can depend on them to get me down. With all the other electronics gone, it's a pretty big ask to expect him to continue depending on yet another electronic gadget.

[@spacedmanspiff1543]

Agreed.

[@jimmyf14]

I was a cockpit designer at Grumman. My old boss left Grumman and designed the F-22 cockpit and won the Collier Trophy. Backup ADI on F-22 is on the lower right of the instrument panel and looks like a steam gauge. In an emergency a pilot goes to what is familiar and tried and true. Bad design of emergency equipment in F-35. The pilot didn’t trust the electronics, not his instruments.

[@victorfinberg8595]

as always, mooch (and hozer) knock it out of the park

[@AA-xo9uw]

"(and hoser)"(sic) Hozer

[@victorfinberg8595]

@@AA-xo9uw ok, thanks, corrected

[@victorfinberg8595]

49:15 the miscommunication could have been avoided with the simple words "i came down under a PARACHUTE. (i'm AIR FORCE)" of course, the pilot assumes this was obvious, and feels no need to SAY so. the 9-11 operator has NO IDEA a parachute was used, and her protocols don't tell her to ASK. a bit of comic relief in an otherwise terrible situation, which could have been much worse

[@victorfinberg8595]

50:00 except ...within a few sentences, the pilot DOES figure this out, and DOES say exactly what is needed to pass on the specific necessary information

[@victorfinberg8595]

if you want to see miscommunication in much LESS challenging situations, just go through the q/a session in detail. there you have people who have just gone through an HOUR of having all the relevant details explained to them, and they STILL use confusing language eg. "what weapons was HE carrying" which is irrelevant AS STATED, but refers to what the PLANE was carrying

[@rastarn]

Excellent analysis. One thing though, all variants of the F-35 can, and do, carry external stores for certain mission profiles, particularly ground attack. Ordinance is not weapons bay exclusive. There are only 4 internal installations for weapons in the bays, whereas there are 6 external hardpoints: 5,700 pounds (2,600 kg) internal, 15,000 pounds (6,800 kg) external, for 18,000 pounds (8,200 kg) total weapons payload on the F-35A and F-35C, while on the F-35B hardpoint capacities are reduced on stations 2, 10 (ext), 4 and 8 (int), from 2500lb to 1500lb due to the F-35B’s use of weaker aluminium structural elements, resulting in a total weapons load of 15,000 lb (6,800 kg).

[@doofhund3526]

Question...are so few hours enough to be current to fly? Is simulator traing available for a situation were your displays go out? Thankfully the pilot survived and was able to explain what happened so hopefully changes to equipment and traing will help this from happening again.

[@66WDB]

Havelock High grad? My high school East Carteret played Havelock regularly in football, basketball, etc. One of the harriers from Cherry Point crashed less than mile from my house back in the late 70s.

[@skysurferuk]

"Launch the Alert Live Stream.." Awesome! 🤣👍

[@RAS-zs6eq]

Small correction Mooch. In the case of the F-35, PCD stands for "Panoramic Cockpit Display." Cheers.

[@dmac7128]

Great reporting. There are lingering question though. How much testing has been done on the F-35 with respect to susceptibility to damage to its electronics from lightning strikes? It was stated that the displays were flickering on and off. Is there a data recorder that stores the state of the aircraft's flight computer and display systems in addition to the flight data recorder? Were the primary display, helmet display, and smaller "peanut" display at any time displaying conflicting information as to the state of his aircraft? It has been stated in the report that the pilot could not determine which instruments to trust. Could it be that he was receiving conflicting information from his instruments? And if that is the case, how could he trust that the aircraft would respond properly to his control inputs? Perhaps that is the reason along with his altitude, he chose to eject.

[@richardmerrill4036]

He responsibility and duty that these young (and old) boys take on and the consequences they endure brings tears to the eyes of a 77 year old civilian. Thanks guys!😢

[@michaelmartinez1345]

Hello Commander Carroll And Captain Miller !!! A very interesting video that You have presented here.. . So many things can happen to any kind of planes that get into IMC conditions... One of the most interesting stories is this one...Pilot ejects from the plane because it was not responding the way it should have on aporoach into a base When it was just hit by a strong jolt of lightning... I feel that Lightning has caused numerous problems to planes, especially while they are in flight... I remember when working at an airline, how many times we had to repair damage from lightning strikes... It seemrd to happen most frequently when the planes were in flight... Especially when it was in IMC conditions... The planes that we had were conventional designs that so many airlines use... The Vast majority of the airframe being made of aluminum... The discharge wicks were in various spots all along the trailing edge's of the wing & empenage... The majority of damage was corrected by replacing the burned fasteners (usually rivets) and the FMC's , PFD's, SFD's, Weather Rx, FADEC, Radios, INS, and other sensitive equipment were carefully checked after known lightning hits and certain types of squawks in the Logbook... What made the Lightning hit inspection's more intense is if additional damage was evident after the hit... The areas with composites were covered with a special material bonded to the outsides of those panels to dissipate the electrical energy that ⚡ zapped the plane to minimise the damage to those panels and reduce possible damage to the extremely sensitive electronic components described above.... Wade (Mooch), You recently had an excellent post report , of what was found on the unintended capsule hatch release that the Hero Gus Grissom encountered on Mercury Flight #2 (Liberty Bell) after the splash-down took place... Those explosive bolts to Release that hatch were triggered to fire with an electrical jolt from inside of the capsule . Yes I believe that the triggering device could have set those bolts to explode, but with that being said could another source of energy have been able to set them off? I believe that it is completely feasable that Static electricity or a lightning ⚡ strike could have set-off those bolts to blow... With that being said, they (supposed 'experts' doing the investigation) automatically assumed that Gus panicked and blew the hatch... I doubt that happened... I feel that the F-35 Could easily have encountered the same kind of damage that so many airliners encounter every day...The difference between the F-35 & the airliners is the extremely LOW conductivity of the composite RAM panels that are so hungry for radar waves, and the complete absense of static discharge wicks... Ask the people who decided to Punish the Colonel ; 1)What a static discharge wick is - and 2) What the specific electrical resistance is of those RAM panels are on those planes and other planes with non-isolated panels using RAM... Also 3) What the entire surface area is on the outside of those planes, using NON-ELECTRICAL-CONDUCTING materials.... My guess is, if you ask the people who made the decision to end the flying career of that MARINE Aviator Colonel , That those same questions that I mentioned here, (without advice of any person who has this kind of experience) They will probably have no clue of what You are asking them about... Yet THEY are the people who pretend to know everything about what they are pretending to know about, to make important decisions on other people's lives...If they are so worried about tax payer dollars, why can't THEY be fired??? That would save many taxpayers TONS of $.... Today is: 11/03/24 @ 03:00 PDT

[@joshs1803]

It really sounds like a series of unfortunate circumstances do to lack of training. Which is a hard pill to swallow in my opinion.

[@hifinsword]

In the U.S. Navy, I'm not sure about the Marine Corps, the Aircraft Mishap report is written about as though it is from the AIRCRAFT's POV. Any causes or contributing causes of the mishap are stated. But the report is not to be used for attributing fault to the pilot or anyone else. The Mishap Report is solely to determine how to prevent further mishaps in the future. The JAG investigation is done separately and can be used for NJP, Non-Judicial Punishment Courts Martial, etc.

[@WardCarroll]

As stated in the episode.

[@Triple_J.1]

9:35

[@danielelse3914]

Can you emphasize that the Mishap and JAG investigations are conducted independently? There should be no cross-pollination between the two, for the reasons you discussed.

[@byank744]

I was a JAG investigator for a Class A fatal aircraft mishap in my squadron while deployed. As the JAG investigator I had access to all the evidence that was collected regarding the mishap the same as the Mishap Investigation board. My JAG investigation, collection of such information and conclusion was completely independent and neither the Mishap board or I exchanged any information during the course of the investigation.

[@battack56]

I watched another podcast, CW Lemoine, where he stated that the pilot had gotten a command after the accident, and that he was in that command for about a year, and then was pulled off of command because of the accident. If I remember correctly. Were you tracking that info? Thanks again for a great episode!

[@donjay9302]

What was the time between first loss of instruments-lightning strike-second loss of inst. to ejection?

[@bukstopshere]

Maybe the simulator training could increase secondary display training?

[@Thor_Asgard_]

If they need more then an hour to think about if it was fair to eject, then its pretty sure that someone that has only seconds to decide, should just safe his ass. End of Story.

[@benjaminperez7328]

The ghost of John Wayne was not present for the good Colonel on this day. “10 degrees nose up, wings level, vsi, altimeter….” IYKYK.

[@prayingpilot3806]

Is there a deep dive on the P-8 mishap in Hawaii yet ?

[@tomwilson1006]

If it was the former MAG 31 commander and not the current, the former also has airline experience, if I’m not mistaken. So definitely an experienced military/commercial airline pilot. Things happen, and it can happen to ANY of us.

[@tomwilson1006]

I WAS mistaken. Thank you Ward for clarifying.

[@jamesgunnyreed]

It was NOT Col Dustin Byrum, (the former CO of MAG-31) who just changed over with Col Michael Cassidy the new MAG-31 CO on June 28th.

[@JIMMY-THE-JEW-FROM-PHILLY]

Thanks for the report!

[@jerseyshoredroneservices225]

That 911 call was excruciatingly painful to listen to last year. I had to fast forward that part for this video...

[@courtneyturner5083]

damn good summary!

[@KRGruner]

Uh... 5th Gen fighters CAN carry external ordnance, and not only that , they actually do on a fairly regular basis (although certainly less often than clean) especially in the USMC and Navy. Just sayin'...

[@swatkin3]

About 2 months after I started my disassociated sea tour on CVN71, (in 1991) we were off the coast of Virginia or North Carolina providing a deck for carrier quals. In those days, the F18s were 'newest' bright shiny object on the flight deck. One of the squadrons we had on board was transitioning from the A7 to the F18. I had a few hours free, so I decided to climb up the island and go out to vultures row to watch the fun. Right as I walked out the hatch onto vultures row, I watched the LSO and everyone around him dive for cover, followed by an F18 diving straight down, into the water. It missed the port side by about 100 - 150 yards. If, as a kid, you ever shot a BB gun into water, that's what it sounded like, only a LOT louder. A few minutes later, the plane guard helicopter picked the pilot out of the water and brought him back on board. If I remember correctly, he was a squadron XO. This was his first cat shot in the F18. Things didn't look right and he punched out of a perfectly good airplane. The plane, minus a pilot climbed a thousand feet or so, then winged over and went straight in. I'm really, really glad it missed the ship. A fully fueled F18, probably at supersonic speed, hitting the ship would have been a bad day.... I wonder if anyone out there remembers this?

[@densonsmith2]

victim: I fell 2000 feet. 911 Operator: what caused the fall?

[@Triple_J.1]

G ra vi ty.

[@jimmyf14]

Compare F-22 backup ADI. It looks like it is on lower right of instrument panel and looks like a steam gauge. In emergency a pilot goes on instinct. Emergency instruments have to be simple and look like ones on other types. Pilot was unsure of electrical system status. He would have trusted a steam gauge or an instrument that looked like a steam gauge even if it was electronic.

[@KO-pk7df]

I grew up in the Air Force and my father was a fighter pilot and I was in the Navy as an A7-E tech. Anyway I always understood that you were to call the Air Base; Ops, squadron etc. Not 911 in any kind of event especially one like this. Also this is what I heard my father talk about more than once.

[@beckyumphrey2626]

He did not call.911. A.civilian did.

[@gregoryschmitz2131]

From the standpoint of a commercial pilot (with an instrument rating) , I get the instrument issue. In the good old days we had instruments that cross referenced each other and you could sort out a bad instrument using two others. In this case, he is down to one single instrument aka the combined unit and has nothing to cross ref that to, everything else is gone. Now that combined unit may be fed by other inputs but you are looking at a single unit. Be curious is they indeed are trained to live and or die by that device? That said, marginal time pilots should not be going out in those conditions either (one seems to have elected not to). Pretty FUBAR all the way around as we also do not know how much Sim time the MP had.

[@jerryeubanks491]

To both of you thanks for your input on this. Without any classified material is it possible to have the manufacturers put some type of a device that can land these planes instead of just letting him float out of control I don't know. I believe during your report you made a statement that the transponder was out so that's why they couldn't track the flight but boy would that have made it difficult if there was any civilian planes in IMC conditions? Keep up the good work thank you for your service as always you do a great job in your responses❤

[@daniels2761]

If most electronics including radio are having issues, remote control is totally out of the question. An onboard computer, maybe, if it is more robust than some of the electronics that went out.