Lost in Translation: Boss Names in Bloodborne

[@shetanislair]

Edit: I totally misread the name of Micolash, he is not King (王) of the Nightmare but a Master/Head of the Nightmare (主). Thanks for correcting me! I'll update the blogpost as soon as I can.

[@GwenHrothgar]

As you misread Manus heueheu

[@StonyTable]

All fine, but you think Rom, The Idiotic Spider is a better fit? Even though Vacuous shares a similar definition to the Japanese version. Idiotic is just way too on the nose,

[@jbark678]

In an ironic twist, if Lovecraft wrote a short story about the Moon Presence, he would almost certainly have his characters call it the Moon Thing (like the Elder Things). He was a pulp writer after all.

[@TheInfiniteAmo]

An important consideration for Bloodborne names is that much of the game's plot was heavily rewritten a few months before release, so a lot of context for names and terms can only be found by diving pretty deep into cut content. One easy example is Vicar Emilia - she is a Vicar, rather than a higher ranking member of the Clergy, because she originally would have been fought at the end of Hemwick Charnel Lane, where the Witch of Hemwick is fought in the final game. As Hemwick is clearly a Parish that falls under the Diocese of the larger Healing Church in Yharnam proper, Emilia would only be a Vicar rather than a full-fledged Cleric or Bishop like Laurence. Another deep lore cut points to Rom being "empty headed" in regards to Rom blotting out the effects of the Yahar'Ghul Hidden Ritual; possibly Rom was lobotomized or simply created to project a mask over the ritual rather than distorting the Waking World the way the Moon Presence does. The disconnect between Cosmos and 'seikai'/Star World/Celestial probably has a common root in the mistranslation of a lore note that reads, "The Sky and the Cosmos are One;" along with rewrites removing the references to the cut Lake of Mud, the entire cosmology of Bloodborne was meant to imply something akin to an asian proverb about mud settling to the bottom of a river once the stream stops running, with the upper echelons of this cosmology (The Cosmos/"Sky") being substantially different from ACTUAL Space. See also: the moon not actually being Luna, but rather Flora, the Moon Presence.

[@shetanislair]

Thank you for your comment! Wow, I didn't know they changed so much.

[@TheInfiniteAmo]

@@shetanislair The changes to Bloodborne were extremely substantial and also happened late enough into development that many cut concepts and areas can still be found on-disc by hackers, such as the aforementioned Lake of Mud. Fear The Old Lore by LastProtagonist here on KZbin is a deep dive into Bloodborne's cut content and translation differences, I strongly recommend checking it out.

[@Woedenaz]

I wasn't aware of the proverb in relation to the Lake of Mud! That is //incredibly// cool and probably the only bit of cut content that I now wish had been included. The idea behind that is super interesting. I doubt we'll ever get a Bloodborne sequel but IF we did, I'd love for that to be included somehow.

[@TheInfiniteAmo]

@@Woedenaz Valtr's entire theme is related to the proverb of the Lake of Mud, with "vermin" coming to manifest from stagnation/the lack of flow which creates the Lake of Mud. Its a central theme to both the base game and DLC and its really strange to me that its never more explicitly referenced in the final game.

[@Woedenaz]

@@TheInfiniteAmo that's genuinely super cool and probably the only cut content I've heard of that I am actually sad wasn't more explicitly conveyed

[@iWillWakeYouUp]

The amygdala/almond connection is also due to its shape. In German, the amygdala in the brain is called "Mandelkern", literally "almond core/kernel" or just "almond" if you will.

[@DS_DoggerX]

Ah yes, almond core, the popular game by From Software

[@jorgeavce3276]

Amígdala also refer to tonsils, in Spanish

[@poseidonloss]

@@jorgeavce3276 the same as in portuguese-br

[@Late0NightPC]

This might be stretching things, but I think the choice of Vicar rather than bishop was meant to tie into the eldritch themes of the game. The church is built up around the Great ones, so even the absolute highest ranks of the church are still second to the Great Ones. It reflects the sort of "humans are not important or special in the grand scheme of things" themes that eldritch fiction tends to have. It even lines up with what you saw with Great Ones, that they are literally "higher in rank" compared to the church. I also suspect the Kos/Gos thing was a change made to make it intentionally more confusing. Micolash himself mentions in his dialog during the fight how he "realized it now" that he mistook "Cosmos" and "Kosm" and thought it somehow tied into Kos, when in reality Kos had little to do with the Cosmos he was talking about. In english, no one would ever mistake "Cosmos" and "gos", but swap the G for a K and the mistake is a lot easier to make.

[@SorowFame]

I don’t really think that first bit holds, the title of bishop still refers to being subservient to someone higher, it’s just that in the Healing Church the Great Ones take the position of God.

[@Liaret]

IMO, "Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower" sounds amazing, almost poetic. I do think adding "Astral" there was a worthy choice.

[@chrismanuel9768]

I feel the opposite. It feels more grounded and therefore more potent (to me) with less flourish.

[@lachlank.8270]

It has a balanced number of syllables or whatever poets call them, iambs? La-dy ma-ri-a Of the As-tral clock-tow-er

[@TheGrandslam89]

The thing to keep in mind about "Cosmos" is that Lovecraftian horror is often times called "Cosmic horror" as it featured as a regular theme through his works. Thus the selection of the term cosmos is perfectly natural and in tune with the themes of Bloodborne from an English speakers to indicate an origin beyond the world we think of and in that context means something quite different than the scientific context for the term.

[@franciscodetonne4797]

TBH "Ludwig, the Unholy Beast" might have been a GREAT contrast to "Ludwig, the Holy Blade", lore and all. Changing from "Gos/Gosm" to "Kos/Kosm" emphasizes the "cosmos"? This is the only connection I know of.

[@dialaskisel5929]

Personally, I think the usage of the term "Vicar" might be a nod to the London/England inspiration of the game's setting. A vicar is a church rank used in other denominations, but it is very common and important in Anglican (Church of England) churches. Fantastic video, I look forward to seeing more :)

[@Killazaa]

they likely went with vacuous instead of idiotic because it just doesn't evoke an appropriate feeling to the player most english speaking people upon seeing a boss with idiotic in its name would laugh or find it odd, while vacuous doesn't get that response and is instead more mysterious and foreboding

[@panorenji]

Something like fool would have worked. Lovecraft did it for one of his Great Ones.

[@lavendercamellia7131]

@@panorenji unless vacuous implies a child. a child is not foolish, it is just empty, unexperienced. i believe rom is willem's child, especially considering her design as an undeveloped spider. she doesn't look like the spiders from mensis, she looks more like something between a caterpillar and a spider. miyazaki himself said in an interview that his favorite boss is rom and that he thinks she has a certain cute feel, design to her. what else is cute, empty-minded and has an undeveloped body?

[@KrakenGameReviews]

Rom, the Brainless Spider would work well. Half-wit, Dim, or Slow might have also worked in English. Vacuous suggests more vapid or surface level to me.

[@Tulip_bip]

ceaseless discharge just sitting in the corner...

[@Neirean]

"Idiot" is a reference to Azathoth, so I think it actually would have been a better name, as much as I like Vaccuous - vaccuous also isn't a great fit as mentioned above, as it implies there is nothing inside, rather than her mind being a chaotic mess, which is the reality of her state. I don't think it's a good name.

[@rayfranklin7646]

Talking about Rom and the difference between "vacuous" and "idiot", it brings to mind another possible Lovecraft reference. One of the gods of the Cthulhu mythos is Azathoth, sometimes called the "blind idiot god". "The last major reference in Lovecraft's fiction to Azathoth was in 1935's "The Haunter of the Dark", which tells of "the ancient legends of Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws".[18]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth Love the videos, great contribution to the lore discussion of the Soulsborne games!

[@ashencometmom5291]

ludwig the accursed is a confusing translation because the random npc in the cutscene before the fight calls him an "unsightly beast", which is a perfect fit for his japanese title, but then the actual boss name changes from that. i wonder if the two lines were identical and just translated by different people that didn't think to clear things up with one another, or if there is also a difference in japanese between what he gets called in the cutscene and what his boss name is

[@shetanislair]

Good catch! Ludwig's original name is 醜い獣 [minikui kemono], and the guy you mentioned says, 「おぞましい、醜い獣がやってくる 」, referring to Ludwig as 醜い獣 [minikui kemono]. You are right, the names are identical and should've been translated accordingly (￣ω￣) I feel like there's possibly some humor (?) in the original: you meet a random NPC who says, "there is an ugly beast, the cursed Ludwig!" And then moments later the boss shows up titled "Ugly Beast Ludwig"

[@davidepastore5600]

I suspect it's possible that they felt that "Ludwig, the Unsightly Beast" lacked in magnificence as a boss name, especially for such an interesting character. "Ludwig the Accursed" loses on accuracy, but it is easier on the tongue and doesn't risk being too silly.

[@c.l.a.u.d.e]

There's a Boss with an interesting name in Chalice Dungeons.: what was translated as "Bloodletting Beast" is originally "獣血の主", which means "Host/Master/Lord of the Beast Blood". Before the DLC, the most common theory on Laurence was his descent into the Old Labyrinth to retrieve Mergo for the Moon Presence and his inevitable downfall to beasthood. Now with Chalice Dungeons being so hard to pinpoint lore-wise and "The Old Hunters" murkying the waters, it's hard to say if this was just another dropped plotline in the final product, but seen as the supposed skull of transformed Laurence in the Great Cathedral doesn't resemble a Cleric Beast and the internal name of the BLB is "始祖ビースト" ("Founder Beast"), it seems that it was definetely planned as some point. Nice video by the way, I haven't checked if you have made one for Sekiro Bosses/Mini-Bosses yet, but that would definitely be needed, considering the much lower quality of Activision's translating team compared to Frognation's work.

[@WineRedEchos]

isn't blb headless? it's been a long time since I did those dungeons but off the top of my head I thought one of the last bosses was weirdly headless. maybe I'm wrong though. if I'm not it could all still make sense, as most of what's in the dlc seems to be hunters who have already died. his appearance as a cleric beast would be weird but the overall idea could fit.

[@c.l.a.u.d.e]

@@WineRedEchos The Boss appears twice through the Story Dungeons route: first, with the head, on the fourth and final Layer of Lower Pthumeru and second, beheaded, on the second Layer of Great Pthumeru Ihyll, before the floor with Queen Yharnam.

[@joshuareesor1756]

I'm pretty sure the differences between Bloodletting Beast and First Vicar can be chalked up to the Hunter's Nightmare warping him to an ironic state of punishment, turned into the most recognizable images of beasts among the church and burning forever. Don't forget we only can fight him by giving him his own human skull, which the description says only exists in the Nightmare, all the while both of them exist in two copies of Grand Cathedral at different points in time and space. The Nightmares don't need to perfectly align with physical reality, like Maria having the Rakuyo she threw away long ago or the Ophern appearing as an old man despite barely living at all. Laurance could have become the Bloodletting Beast while down in the Chalice Dungeons, then killed and beheaded after transforming, then being warped into the Flame Cleric Beast once his consciousness arrives in the Hunter's Nightmare.

[@Haru-spicy]

I would have given Rom the title 'Mindless' since it could be a nod to HP Lovecraft's Azathoth, described as a 'blind idiot god'. Even though it isn't a perfect lore description, I would have called Ludwig the 'Misbegotten', to imply a disfigured or mutated creature while also circling back to the themes of birth in bloodborne

[@Neirean]

Misbegotten I find more readily infers something lost or misguided, or accidentally misled, rather than immediately speaking to mutants and monstrosities, and the dictionary's primary definition agrees with that. I think "Afflicted" would have been good - simple, but gets across the original meaning easily, and definitely easier than "Accursed"

[@Neirean]

Kos I believe was changed from Gos because of the clear tie to "Cosmos" - Kos/Cos, Kosm/Cosm, the Choir beheld the Cosmos etc. I think it is a nice change.

[@okto4201]

3:41 i actually did a bit of research and found that the word used for Rom's russian localization is " ˈpraznɨɪ̯ " which can be translated as "hollow" Also also: in russian artbook he was named as "Hollowhead Rom"

[@mirayoquese8608]

Great vid! A fun thing with the Orphan of Kos is that "ishi" (son of) can also be translated as spirit, so the joke here is that the boss is not only the orphan of Kos, but the spirit of Kos herself, her will to live (blood echoes represent exactly that, and iirc they use the same "ishi" word in japanese).

[@randomhero6265]

Rom in russian translated as "праздный" which is more like faineant, indolent and in General, someone Who is lightheded and up for some messing around :) really glad KZbin recommended your channel tho! Looking forward for your other videos!

[@Haru-spicy]

It's interesting to note that the Hoozuki plants mentioned in the winter lantern bit eventually lose their leaves over the winter, and become twiggy husks that were clearly the inspiration for Human Effigies in dark souls 2.

[@randbrannigan2590]

The reason they added "astral" is that the clock tower Lady Maria resides in is based off of a real world clock in Prague that is an astronomical clock.

[@oloxhossono1956]

i love the general idea of this, its so creative and nice to see someone with this area of education talk about it

[@elliehugg]

Bro I just read like all the text versions of these videos and didn't even realise there were videos THEY ARE LITERALLY AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE I AM STUPID thanks for the great work, i find this stuff super interesting

[@shetanislair]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@drewe51]

Lovecraft has a sorta Victorian/Anglican air about it and thus the names like vicar can be pulled more appropriately from their Anglican church meanings. There vicar is a person in charge of a church or parish. I think that along with the esoteric usage adds to the feeling. Strange words to describe a strange thing make the world seem more otherworldly and menacing

[@dakotasepko]

What's neat about the Orphan of Kos is that 遺子 (Ishi) can refer to both them being the literal orphan or child of Mother Kos, and the remains or what is left spiritually of Kos. You essentially have to fight the will or wrath of Kos, which I think is pretty awesome.

[@Neirean]

"The Wrath of Kos" would have been an absolutely incredible name for this boss. I love the Orphan, but it pales before the Wrath of Kos tbh, and fits more in item descriptions while the primary name would be awesome as the Wrath.

[@fedorkochemasov4533]

Ah, so the bolt/fire paper is actually sandpaper after all! So like you sharpen the edge with it briefly to give the weapon special properties, now it makes sense!

[@skiuhjan]

hi! i don't know much about bloodborne and i'm only here because of your dark souls videos, but i'd like to put in my two cents about amygdala. "amygdala" means almond in latin, so the translation is actually on point. i don't think it's referring to the kind of almonds you eat though, but rather to the "mandorla" (which also means almond, in italian), an almond-shaped aureola or frame that surrounds iconographic figures in christian art. what i assume is amygdala's head has the exact same shape as that of a "mandorla". again, i don't know much about the game and i've never seen this boss before, so i don't really know how it ties in to the lore. i hope this was useful to you somehow!

[@N.A.M.LazyCloud]

Bloodborne is my favorite game of all time, one of my favorite artworks of all time, and the Dark Souls series are up there with it. I've done tons of research into the backgrounds of the locations/characters/objects in these games, watched so many videos, read so much that has been written about it, and I have already learned some things from the two videos of yours that I've watched, which I've never heard brought up, and which have astounded me (for instance, I never knew that Ebrietas is a species of moth). Great work! And, thank you! I'm looking out for your work in the future :D

[@Ideabot_69]

Regarding the Winter Lantern, I think it's interesting to note that the item used to cure the Frenzy build-up they cause is called Sedative.

[@thomassinha5301]

I quite like your idea of Amelia and Laurence being "head of the church" and "founder of the church", as it does sound cool and is more in line w the lore. However I think maybe Laurence being the first vicar (second in command) might be a reference to him being second in command to Willem pre-Healing church/byrgenworth split. He was the first vicar. Then Amelia, like you said, is vicar to Laurence in the current time similarly.

[@TheVojvoda]

12:53 it's an Astral clock tower. A clock tower that tracks the time, date, and movement of stars.

[@tinybird8859]

Woah! I was just watching your video on dark souls 3’s translations and this video came out. love your channel + blog posts about the localisation in soulsborne.

[@shetanislair]

Thank you!

[@maelstrrom2824]

Hideous Beast Ludwig is an apt description of the first phase. Simon's English dialogue refers to the "Astral Clocktower," and patients in the clocktower refer to her as "Lady Maria"

[@WashupCyclone]

Gascoigne is very strange spelling for a French name. I always assumed they wrote it like that to make it easier for English speakers to make a similar sound, as they would not know “gn” make a “nye” sound. However “oi” is pronounced “oa” so for a French speaker his name is “Gascoanye” which is not nearly as cool 😆

[@benjewminge]

Awesome channel, you deserve a lot of recognition. I'll do my best to boost the algorithm :D

[@benjewminge]

One thing to add: Rom, the Vacuous Spider could a double entendre - vacuous has the meaning of being empty (ie stupid/unintelligent) - but in this case it could also mean physically empty. Something like no brain at all (eyes instead). It also brings to mind the word porous, and Rom's head is porous with eyes.

[@shetanislair]

Thank you for your support! (￣ω￣)

[@ems6706]

Cosmos and Astral in English often aren't literally refering to space, in occult terms they can refer to a higher plane of spiritual existence while also referring to space. Like i think there's for sure better ways they could have gone about translating that, I think I get their intent and it's serviceable if a bit uninspired. Would you think about checking out some Japanese translations of Lovecraft and seeing if perhaps there references within those linguistically that have been lost in the literary reference version of translating over and over on google translate? idk how fluent you are reading Japanese and god knows how they translated the archaic English he uses into it but I'd bet money some of are direct references that were lost.

[@666bro]

Amelia is the mayor, Gascoigne the sheriff. Great content 😊👍👍

[@martonszegedi5039]

Not to be that kind of guy, but Micolash is the Master/Head/Leader (主), but he is not the King (王) of it. 主 and 王 are different kanjis!

[@shetanislair]

You're totally right, I misread his name! Thanks for the heads up (´｡• ω •｡`)

[@LiloDemon]

There are two curious thing i found about the Vicar's names. Both names Laurence and Amelia ( It was supposed to be Emilia) are name of Saints of Catholic Church. I found that interesting because there's a city close to mine called São Lourenço, wich means Saint Laurence. I also studied in a school named after the founder of a Congregation and her name was Santa Emília, Saint Emilia.

[@wintermanic]

Wow! This is great content! This really likes a lot of the lore of the character to their name. The Amygdala one is amazing! All that really explained why they are referred to as false gods / false great ones. And the agree with your statement that Laurence and Amelia should have distinguished in their titles.

[@neomarioism]

ur voice is so soothing

[@adamyohan]

You're right, the word Vicar might easily get over the heads of some players like myself. Cool video! I'm gonna check the rest of the channel.

[@calebharper3808]

I think a similar video about other translations such as locations, NPC names, and weapon/spell names would be very interesting. I love this series of videos!

[@headlesswaifer5797]

I love the way this came from English Lovecraft stories, adapted in Japanese media, then that media adapted to be understandable to English players who would have a familiarity with Lovecraft. It's really fun to watch it dug into more than any other FromSoft game to me

[@Ezekiel_Allium]

I would like to point out, that Great One also harkens to lovecraft's Great Old Ones. I'd be interested in seeing how lovecraftian terms are translated to Japanese and how it fits into bloodborne Wait: If winter lanterns (the fruit) were left as offerings for the dead, and the winter lanterns (the monster) are suspiciously similar to the doll, and the doll is made after Maria... Maybe there's some kind of connection there?

[@seventowers1299]

I already read this as an article before, but it was nice to enjoy it again. Thank you)

[@SurfRock74]

such a legitimately educational and underrated channel

[@skogib4846]

I think Vicar is a good choice. It's a title in western theology denoting someone who is the living embodiment of a being, vested with all its power and authority. Has a very high and mighty tone, associated with extreme prestige and veneration by the masses as a messiah-like figure.

[@kelvincook4246]

Thanks for this wonderful video that combines two things I enjoy, Bloodborne and the Japanese language.

[@big_red01027]

"Vacuous" is perfect; poetic and mysterious. Was "seikai" also used for the bonus area of _Super Mario World_ ?

[@bloyder30]

Damnn your channel is really underrated, loving the videos!!

[@beanmcqueen9785]

These videos are excellent and fascinating, thank you for posting.

[@gabriellesauvageau7335]

Re: Amygdala, in French we call tonsils « amygdales ». The same word is also used for the brain part.

[@estevaobutilheiro]

Thanks for the video, this is amazing! As someone who is learning japanese, this is an awesome find.

[@jku08972]

Re: Laurence and Amelia - "First" or "Prime" is sometimes used in English to denote hierarchical superiority. For example, the "first clarinet" of an orchestra or the "Prime Minister" of a country. "First Vicar" Laurence, I believe, is not just meant to denote temporal precedence but also higher authority when compared to "Vicar" Amelia. Still agree with your alternate translation, but I think they did try to capture it!

[@tahlialysse]

"Vicar" is also used in English as a catch-all word sometimes for "clergy person with authority." Much like how "Priest" or "Preacher" get used. Sometimes the terms are used to refer to specific ranks within a religion that use the terms, but just as often they aren't. Cleric is another word that has similarly gone through similar treatment. As others have mentioned, certain fictional genres tend to use these terms regularly: often the fantasy genre will use cleric, while something steampunk or Victorian will use vicar. Westerns often use preacher. Idk if the localization team was trying to specifically use vicar as a specific rank or not, but using it as general term is well within reason for the genre.

[@RuijsNL]

Miyazaka has named the Fighting Fantasy series, especially noting 'Titan', as a big inspiration for his games. I looked the book up and it was written by Mark Gascoigne.Its not a stretch to think he was named after that person I think!

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

What a lovely voice

[@skew5386]

I think "Disfigured Beast Ludwig" would've worked really well, it conveys the connotation of the Japanese a bit better imo.

[@Neirean]

Wow, a lot to touch on with Rom, this changes my entire understanding of her as a character. First off, she is not actually an idiot at all, she is not empty-headed at all! "Idiot" is a complex term here, as it is a reference to Lovecraft's "Azathoth the Idiot God" who was nicknamed such by frustrated scholars who *could not understand his inconceivable intent and purposes*. In other words, Rom is not actually brainless at all, it is simply supposed to be that the scholars could not understand her purpose or intent, and slapped "idiot" on her as an annoyed insult, perhaps even for meddling in their Mensis Ritual. "Vaccuous" doesn't get across that it is not an inherent name she has, but one given to her by the Healing Church/Yahar'Gul (as is indicated by the presence of the note that mentioned her below Oedon Chapel). The head "shudders uncontrollably" in anger at the intangible purpose that only Rom knows behind her interference - she knows that only doom awaits them if the moon is free, but the fools do not understand and call her an idiot for it, just as Azathoth is called an idiot for what we only see as purposeless destruction. A big theme in Bloodborne is the "acting god without the full picture of the consequences", which gels nicely with a great one that we cannot understand being insulted for restricting us, when she was in fact protecting us, as she was once one of us.

[@dutchbannger6503]

Really great stuff when it comes to the butterfly connection to Ebrietas and her design and also the connection to the into the latin root and the intoxication of the blood in lore. Japanese love these sort of double entandre meanings and I think this is exactly spot on. She was the left behind great one found in the dungeons (by wilhelm and laurance?) who is perhaps the source of modern blood ministration in Yarnam. (I've seen some theories that she's left behind because her metamorphosis was interrupted and her cocoon disturbed by the excavators and the implication that rom ties into this being a catapilar type rather than spider) I wonder if that's the big difference between the vilebloods aka clan of impure blood and The church. The church administers blood of the great one Ebrietas where as the vilebloods collect the blood of hunters/ people and feed to to their blood queen, and then partake in her own blood, sucking it from her body/wrist. (The vilebloods are clearly vampiristic whilst the healing church fighting lycanthropy is the other half of these gothic horror stories) Perhaps everytime we enter a dream or a nightmare, it's not ours, but a greatone's and when we get the nightmare slain pop up it means we ended the greatone's nightmare and ended their thrashing allowing them back to a deep slumber- and as such calming the chaotic waves that rippled into "our" waking worlds. The three times we get the nightmare slain are 1. putting Mergo, blood child of queen yarnam, back to bed by killing the wet nurse. It seems that micolash and his team purposfully made mergo cry to attract an audience with a great one and as that great one desended it caused all sorts of horrors. Head swapped monsters and amalgamations of risen bodies. Maybe the head cages are to prevent their own head from getting swapped lol. 2. ending ???'s nightmare by killing moon presence. Who is the dead great one / demigod who's nightmare is moon presence? Oedon himself maybe? Seeing as the Oedon Chapel is the one place safe from lycanthropic beasts which seem to be influenced by the moon presence. What's strange is that hunter's must hunt is the very nightmare itself and we only end the nightmare of the hunt by getting the 3 cords and defeating MP. 3. ending the orphan's nightmare by slashing that dark mist after killing the demonic representation of Gehrman. But maybe nightmare slain means killing a legitimate greatone instead of those kin to greatones and people like Eibrietas and Rom were once human or Pthumerian or what have you. If that's the case it could mean we killed a walking nightmare or we ended the thing influencing/fueling the nightmare. I love the world of bloodborne so much, hoping for that 10yr anniversary remaster!

[@kylehart8829]

I think Vicar is actually an excellent translation for Amelia, and not at all for Laurence. It seems Laurence was a true pastor or priest, whereas the line of vicars ending with Amelia were his assistants and eventually his replacements in the duties of watching over the church members in Yharnam. Also, in traditional churches of the past 500-1000 years, women were generally unable to hold a pastoral role in the official since, so many women with the qualities necessary to be a priest would've been given the title of Vicar instead.

[@Neirean]

Fully agreed about Vicar, as it requires English readers to redefine it from what one might automatically think. That said, "Vicar Amelia" sounds fantastic to the ear and to say, so I am torn. Also agreed about Rom as well, especially considering "Azathoth the Blind Idiot God" in Lovecraft's mythos, and how it is clearly supposed to emulate that. Vaccuous also implies empty and devoid, rather than what I think was originally intended as meaning a chaotic mess inside her head, like Azathoth.

[@千利休の暇つぶし]

自分は今、北米版やってるけど、 日本語版でのボス名の呼び方の違いを発見するのがまた面白い ヤーナムの影は分かりやすいけど、 白痴のロマはロマを前に書いて後ろに形容詞(?)みたいなんをもってくるとか、 単純にニュアンスのカッコよさとかを意識してんのかな

[@OrigamiPhoenix]

This isn't about Bloodborne specifically, but there's another Japanese-produced game to use "vicar" when there's a more pertinent title. In Devil May Cry 4, there's a character named Sanctus who is called the "Vicar of Sparda" in English, but his Japanese title calls him 法王 (or the equivalent kana) which would be "pope". This likely wasn't done because of translation errors, but to avoid offending the Catholic part of the audience.

[@tylermacdonald8924]

I love this content so much, wonderful personality too

[@treyatkinson7564]

The bolt and fire paper would probably be closest to sandpaper with the rasp intention in Japanese

[@samfivedot]

Maybe "Amygdala" isn't even meant to be the boss' name, but a description of it. Like, your character has absolutely no idea what this thing is, so they just call it a almond-head thing.

[@CraigJudd]

But (at least in the English dub) Patches the Spider worships it as a god and calls it Amygdala.

[@Nier_dc]

Putrid Beast Ludwig would have been so good

[@Khrene]

I fucking love your video. May I please add my opinion on Roms title of Vacuous? As IMO its a perfect translation given what you told us. In my experience of American English, the word Vacuous when applied to a person (or sentient being I suppose) is always meant to mean "Empty Headed" and conjures fourth imagery of someone staring into space - utterly thoughtless. That visual is a common way to denotate whos tripping out on some kind of mind altering stimuli like psychedelics, has stared into *the void,* or a someone who has "neved been quite the same since that *that day...*" (think the bad end for Romani from Majoras Mask) This can also be a backhanded and uppity way to call someone the r-slur you translated from Japanese. Stereotypically the person calling another "Vacuous" would be someone who is harsh and concieted due to education or status like a "Mean Girl" a "Foppish Socialite" "The Nerd Bully" or a "Kuudere"

[@Neirean]

While that makes sense, "Idiot" is a clear reference to Azathoth from Lovecraft - "The Idiot God". Idiot in this case is actually supposed to mean a mind thrown into abject chaos, swirling in thoughts yet without a single solid one as far as we can see, but in truth filled with intent and purpose that we cannot fathom as humans. It is supposed to be an ironic term, as the scholars slapped it on Azathoth due to *us being too stupid and unknowledgable* to conceive of his purposes, which are simply unknown to us rather than non-existent. Rom is not supposed to be empty-headed - her mind is supposed to be a chaotic mess beyond our understanding. Given that Rom has a purpose - to ward the Moon away - and it is one we do not understand, I would say Vaccuous is actually a poor term, and gives the impression that Rom is performing her duty absent-mindedly and without purpose at all, which is clearly wrong. While Vaccuous can be read also to be a term slapped on by ignorant scholars, "idiot" makes it clearly a term of frustrated derision by scholars who didn't get it, or are perhaps even angered by her interference with the Mensis Ritual, as vaccuous sounds almost like a proper term here, rather than a frustrated insult.

[@Khrene]

@@Neirean I agree. Vaccuous doesn't really capture the characters motives. I assumed Rom was guarding against the moon prescence, but didnt think was fully concious or aware of its action given the name and that it was a in the reflection if a moon in a nightmare. Neat

[@briggy4359]

Vacuous is like "vacuum" or "absent of thought"

[@volpilh]

The Pope is often named as the Vicar of Christ, which the localisation team probably waived as a synonym for that, since both Amelia and Lawrence are head bishops, but since 'pope' is kind of generic, as well as a gendered word, there might've been some apprehension.

[@sethbuckles3474]

I believe amygdala is supposed to be after the part if the brain, the Amygdala controls fear and nightmares. Bloodborne is all about then nightmares lol they could have used the nut for inspiration though.

[@gamongames]

portuguese pronunciation tip: if there's any accent or marker above a syllable, thats where you stress the word. so, amêndoa goes a-MEN-doa, not a-men-DOA.

[@MagnaMelius]

Great work !

[@hirahirahira22]

In the Edo period Japan, Japanese lantern/hozuki was used as a medicine for abortion. It was also expected to have a sedative effect, but it was probably more famous for abortion. I think Mr. Miyazaki knew about it.

[@andrew_cunningham]

I'm sad they didn't just go with "The Idiot Spider" for Rom. It's simultaneously punchy, a Lovecraft reference, and hilarious.

[@alexdio4389]

This is a cool video and it is nice to see some perspective from the japanese view but i don't get it why people insists to pronounce "amygdala" or "sekiro" wrong. Amygdala is not the word, it is a name, said very loud a lot of times.

[@Neirean]

Ludwig the Ghastly Beast, or Afflicted Beast, could also work

[@dr_big_yoshi]

They may have swapped to kos and kosm, to get us english speakers to make a relationship to words like cosmic for space

[@n_worder]

Vyacheslav Molotov is canon in the localised version of the game

[@lmartinson6963]

Before starting the video, I'm assuming that the Living Failures were supposed to have a more impressive title.

[@lmartinson6963]

Nope, they're literally defined by being failures. Poor guys can't catch a break.

[@dutchbannger6503]

Part of me likes the idea that rom is stupid because of the experiments- like the sea water injected into the brain in the dlc- Perhaps rom is like the little celestial emissary types and and became vacuous due to the brain surgeries. Rom The Lobotomized Spider.

[@kippers1641]

No offence but your voice is heavenly to listen too, fell asleep to this :) thanks

[@XDarkGreyX]

Moon Presence will always be Flora to me....

[@BoostedMonkey05]

Skyen has a good take on Rom and why the translation did not opt for a more definite form of stupidity but rather the word "Vacuous" since Rom is actually insightful but refuses to share the knowledge she has parasitized from the scholars and she keeps that insight and knowledge by appearing "Lazy" and "stupid". The reason why Vacuous was chosen because it fit the lore more when you look into the etymology of the word which is "idly stupid"

[@666bro]

Amelia is the vicar because she is living Laurence's life. Vicariously, as a substitute for the ritual, like the pope is Christ's substitute, Vicarius Christi. She is vicarius Laurence. Laurence got killed by a hunter (gehrman?) and ended up on the nightmare. Amelia does that same when you kill her. Bloodborne had much more English in mind than Japanese I think. Btw a vicar is lower than a bishop on Catholic church, if he is substituting said bishop.

[@InclementFilms]

This is so interesting!

[@sheaedwards]

I like to think Father Gascoigne was supposed to be literal considering the little music box subplot with his daughters and wife. Considering all the other religion themes it'd be easy to assume otherwise so it'd be a nice little switch up.

[@Neirean]

If the name for him was actually 'Father', and did not have the religious tie, your take would have legitimacy, but that is clearly not the case I'm afraid.

[@evanr7102]

Came looking for the Elden Ring Lost In Translation, is it coming? 🙏🙏🙏

[@shetanislair]

Not any time soon.

[@femtohimself71]

i think vacuous fits for Rom considering what you said, to me he's essentially a *vegetable* or *brain- dead*

[@Neirean]

That's not the case though. "Idiot" is a complex term here, as it is a reference to Lovecraft's "Azathoth the Idiot God" who was nicknamed such by frustrated scholars who *could not understand his inconceivable intent and purposes*. In other words, Rom is not actually brainless at all, it is simply supposed to be that the scholars could not understand her purpose or intent, and slapped "idiot" on her as an annoyed insult, perhaps even for meddling in their Mensis Ritual. "Vaccuous" doesn't get across that it is not an inherent name she has, but one given to her by the Healing Church/Yahar'Gul (as is indicated by the presence of the note that mentioned her below Oedon Chapel). The head "shudders uncontrollably" in anger at the intangible purpose that only Rom knows behind her interference - she knows that only doom awaits them if the moon is free, but the fools do not understand and call her an idiot for it, just as Azathoth is called an idiot for what we only see as purposeless destruction. A big theme in Bloodborne is the "acting god without the full picture of the consequences", which gels nicely with a great one that we cannot understand being insulted for restricting us, when she was in fact protecting us, as she was once one of us.

[@femtohimself71]

​@@Neirean you're knowledge on the Mythos is respectable, however, I think you are over-correlating Rom and Azathoth simply because they share some overlap with this term. You're ignoring some vital context of bloodborne's story and you're superimposing Azathoth's role onto Rom. Yet they are no where near similar beings aside from a single adjective (not a very strong correlation whatsoever when you actually observe them individually), and we see this in two major ways: 1.) Rom was a human originally. and was granted his great one status by another Great One, via Mother Kos. (meanwhile Azathoth is quite literally the most powerful and therefore most eldritch being in the mythos, they are not on the same level in terms of power or understandability.) 2.) most importantly, unlike Azathoth, we do indeed know Rom's purpose. As we see and are told it. (rather bluntly I might add) which is to aid in hiding the Mensis Ritual. based on the fact that you could possibly believe "Rom was perhaps meddling" tells me you're much more immersed in Lovecraft's Lore than bloodborne's because the game is VERY straight-foward about what Rom is doing. she was most certainly not "meddling", as there's no evidence to suggest it. On the contrary, Again we are literally told, she was very clearly "hiding" the mensis ritual so that it wouldn't be disturbed. The scholars purposefully locked themselves away so that the nightmare would remain in tact (For the sake of Mergo). remember that ritual itself is guarded by, not just Rom, but: The biggest metal door in the game, some of the post powerful enemies in the game, ~10 Pthumerians 😲, The One Reborn 😳, 2 AMYGDALAS 🤯 , tucked away in the furthest part of the map... do you consider all this "meddling"? no, it's very evident they were ALL protecting the ritual along with Rom. hiding is typically a form of protecting something... would you agree (i.e. Mergo)? Rom's purpose/intent was not only known and told to us in-game, but it was shared with several other eldritch entities for the shared purpose to protect Mergo. Micolash is fully aware of Rom's existence and even the way she was transformed, (and perhaps arguably knew her personally). 3 separate times we see that whenever humans become great one's, they don't become anything as capable or eldritch as the OG's, a typical theme in Soul's games. Wether that's Rom, The Mensis Brain, or even the player character at the end. Certainly not Azathoth level. Finally, I just have to bring up the fact that you didn't finish the lore note. "Byrgenwerth Spider hides all manner of rituals and keeps our *lost* master from us. A terrible shame. it makes my head shudder uncontrollably." This is more likely, to me to imply the writer is disturbed, not angry. you can have a different interpretation, but it's more likely that he's "shuddering" in fear (ya know since it's a horror genre?). not anger. considering that "our lost master' implies once again, some sort of impairment or retardation as the kanji suggests. Willem, can't even speak. it's likely something similar with Rom since they are correlated so closely.

[@femtohimself71]

definitely some poor choices in translation but I feel like english tends to describe bloodborne better than japanese overall... english adjectives are more direct. Also, Lovecraft wrote in english, so there's better potential for those eldritch horror ideas to be communicated.

[@Neirean]

You're bang on that the nuance of Japanese kanji is actually imo a detractor of Lovecraft's themes of obfuscation and uncertainty. English being so direct gives this unique sense thay you are only glimpsing the unthinkable, and that there are mounds upon mounds of unseen meaning.

[@iamthetable5450]

Rom's french name, "l'araignée stupide" is actually closer to the original than to english, despite the french version being translated from the english version

[@LunaDeaminac]

I’d be curious if area names had the same variance as the bosses do.

[@mikeclarke3990]

Rom, the MR spider

[@jayce4897]

I’m guessing Laurence and Amelia were called vicars because they served Master Willem before? Or they served the great ones

[@dannywest8843]

Last Protagonist collab pls.

[@Tuxedosnake00]

great video! i already heard that the english translation of the souls games has many mistakes thanks!!

[@avenfelon2065]

5:00 "in russian localization because for US..." Вы, собственно, с каких российских краев будете, с таким-то английским?

[@kfauzi109]

foolish spider?

[@arogyadayitruptirecipe6771]

Big like