Louis Zocchi of GAMESCIENCE Dice at GenCon 2015

Lou Zocchi was available at GenCon 2015 to do this presentation. Lou is still manufacturing dice at you can purchase them at
www.gamescience...
Lou is a legend in the halls of tabletop gaming, when TSR started producing redbox Dungeons and Dragons he was the man putting the dice in the box. He was the first American manufacturer of polyhedral dice and hold several dice related patents.
Here is a link to a wikipedia page on Lou Zocchi en.wikipedia.o...
Here is a interview with Lou from a few years back boardgamegeek....

[@PenDanger2]

I love his outrage over the polyhedral dice establishment.

[@coyotePAC3]

You never rolled a 1 did you?

[@doncalypso7027]

@@coyotePAC3lul

[@michaelriddick7116]

🤔🤔🤔 Dice Industrial Complex? (or the DIC! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣)

[@thomasmckinley126]

I hate how Big Polyhedra reaps profits while killing characters.

[@zodiark111]

This dude is fucking serious about this dice thing. Respect.

[@SwampWater]

I didn't think I'd find dice science so fascinating.

[@DoctorDice]

I think the thing that hooked me was the history

[@Samwise7RPG]

I have listened to videos of Mr. Zocchi before, but here I am again listening to him again. I just enjoy hearing him speak about dice. :)

[@DoctorDice]

***** I've been working with him on getting this together because of the older video of him was pulled down. I hope this gets circulated so everyone is informed.

[@Samwise7RPG]

Good job getting him back on the tubes. :)

[@DoctorDice]

No problemo, how has your channel been doing since they new update? I've got the hours just not the subs

[@spazmatCc]

It's always a pleasure listening to an expert talk about their craft.

[@Er1ks3n]

I never get tired of Col Zocchi's sales pitch. It's a must for every gamer.

[@thekingofkanata]

Thank you, that was very informative. I have been playing D&D, and now Pathfinder since the 80's and had never given dice a lot of thought. I will now.

[@Slashoom]

he sold me. I bought some of his dice.

[@DanHyzr]

I've had the pleasure of getting this lecture in his store years ago.

[@psusac]

I love this guy. His passion is contagious!

[@PuttingOnTheFoil]

What a character! I remember seeing Gamescience dice ads in Dragon magazine back in the 80's. He's probably been hearing the same complaints for decades.

[@MWepex]

Market it as a "beauty mark", not a "blemish."

[@digilifepro]

Such respect for an expert craftsman talking about their craft and why I will always seek out quality over quantity and companies founded on high ethics and sound ideas. Amazing informational video sir.

[@bgizzleboston]

Wow I'm impressed. Very cool. I had no idea or even thought about it.

[@Beamos12]

man this guy can sell dice! ordering some right now!

[@Panzersonor1967]

Lou is the man. Love his passion! I only use these dice.

[@EzraClaverie]

We missed you at Gen Con, Colonel Zocchi. I've been not just using but admiring and promoting your dice since 1986.

[@DoctorDice]

He had an adverse reaction to a vaccination. His daughter was running his booth. We should see more of her!

[@joeessid5616]

He's a demigod to old-school RPGers like me. Heck, we even named a class of starship after him in one game. Thanks for the great dice, Col. Zocchi, and (drumroll) that great game Alien Space!

[@DoctorDice]

Don't get me wrong I think he is great, I have an audio interview with him that is over an hour about the history of gamescience and I'm trying to figure the best way to put in on here.

[@pappabear4977]

I have a few of his dice.

[@Grenson_Brogue]

I last corresponded with Lou back in the early nineties . Nice to see him looking so well !He probably developed those communication skills from his stage act as a magician .If you ever get another chance , get him to tell you how he invented the 100 sided die .There's a lesson in ingenuity .... And tell him Rob from Jersey says Hi .

[@StasherDragon]

I have been looking for this guy for years! Thank you for this post!!!

[@SaintSabastian7]

Great video, thanks for making it and posting! 7-8 years ago at Gencon, I spent some time in Mr. Zocchi's booth and listened to much of the same pitch as you posted in this video. He is so passionate about dice! I picked up a set from him that year and they are hands down my favorite dice! Anyone who picks them up always comments on how "sharp" they are... I tell them the condensed version of Mr. Zocchi's story...

[@DoctorDice]

Steve Trebing I know he is pretty cool. Share it with your friends so they can see the whole thing!

[@AJPickett]

Just bought some of his dice because of this video.

[@cantatta1982]

I have never liked dice with rounded edges, but it seems that is all you get in board games these days. Thanks Lou, you da man!

[@monsterram6617]

This man's passion for dice is incredible.

[@JonathanHinman]

I will be ordering some of your NON-GALLAVANTING dice ty

[@DrewBaye]

Just got mine. Very happy with them!

[@Cherokie89]

I thought he might be a Kentucky Colonel because of his title and the tie. Turns out he held the rank of colonel in the Alabama State Defense Force after leaving the Air Force.

[@Mephiston]

I know this is a year after you made this, but for the benefit of future posters here is something to point out: Col. Zocchi is as genuine about his service as he is about his dice.

[@Ishpeck]

I'm convinced. I'm going to go buy some Game Science dice right now.

[@The_Mad_Chef78]

I did read a comparison of his dice and chessex dice. The only problem they could find with his dice is that the clip mark on the 7 actually caused the 14 to fail to present dramatically fewer times then it should have. It was generally more evenly random then the chessex dice but that flaw is more significant then what he is giving it credit.

[@DoctorDice]

the issue with that study was the clip wasn't cleaned up.

[@Luk3d4wG]

What does that mean? Isn't the entire point that the clip not being cleaned up hugely affects rolls of "14?"

[@thewizard2465]

i dont even use dice but here i am 3 video's in still watching this dice man speak! im going to buy his dice even though i have no use for them....

[@Scotty_in_Ohio]

So I wonder what actual science would reveal about numbers rolled with these dice vs. any other major brand. Col. Zocchi knows how to sell him some dice for sure and I love his passion.

[@taz0k2]

Would have like to see statistics because that is what really matters. I understand that one has to be extremely precise when it comes to gambling, but for role-playing games it doesn't matter if one side is 0.01% more likely to come up.

[@momobun.]

Wanted to go and buy his dice right away... and I would have if I already didn't purchase some recently! Although now I feel sad about my dice. Will definitely buy his dice in the future.

[@SkyrekGaming]

This is really interesting :)

[@dzeledonzeledon5843]

Had his dice in my amazon list for awhile now, they sell out so fast

[@DoctorDice]

Get them directly from them www.gamescience.com/?AffId=16/

[@Randomwookie4200]

As a GM i've been using only precision dice since I saw lou talk 10 years ago.

[@Mazer2721]

I have an old man's watch. I think he's wearing a Casio F-91 but it could be a slightly older model.

[@Mazer2721]

Hmm...seems a little big for the F series. I know it's a Casio though. I want to die.

[@lebowskiunderachiever3591]

It is a CASIO F-108wh 🤓 ! The W-218 looks similar but is larger , more Dw-5600 GShock'ish

[@Tom2112Tom]

Wow, he's not bitter at all. :O

[@inxiti]

Sounds like a brilliant way to market how they are saving money.

[@teller121]

I met this gent in his Biloxi, Mississippi game store way back in 1979. I think he must have just gotten out of the USAF at that time. his store had a lot of dice then but also a lot of games. I was into the military historical battle simulation made by Avalon Hill and GDW (if you are under 40, you likely don't have a clue!) and Lou's place was crawling with guys into that and even more complex battle situations on a real terrain board - miniatures with all kinds of rules. Nowadays these things have to be done on computer screen but sure was fun 3-dimensional. met a lot of people to square off against in that sprawling store. Good times, long time ago. (Btw, his name is listed in the credits for design in the Avalon Hill board classic, "Luftwaffe.")

[@EdwinC1001]

You just made me a convert. Thanks Lou.

[@jamiebriscoe9916]

Consider: A dice that doesn't stop right away, is still randomized. It doesn't make is inferior. Because next roll, that die will not stop right away, but on a different number.

[@johanndaart7326]

If it has one side that is heavier, during 1000 rolls, long rolls will give that dice more time to stop on the heavier side. This also means, that even if you have cheap dice, you can minimize imperfection impact, if you use a cup-shake-short throw method of rolling, instead of trying to make long rolls on the table.

[@PrzemyslawGlebocki]

very informative! thank you for spreading the knowledge

[@SardaukarLegion]

I'm ordering at least one set. This are going to be my Precision-Dice-Set. gonna use them on my next archer :P

[@overlordinquisitor6565]

Immediately starts intensely scrutinizing my dice...

[@DataSlam]

eye opening!

[@MMODoubter]

I LOVE your new french fires, BTW.

[@projectzip]

I say I say boy thats some mighty fine chicken!

[@NinjaSushi2]

15:11 Old man jokes are the best jokes.

[@jameshalleluyah8133]

Why is this the third time I've watched this guys video?

[@wfjhDUI]

I don't have any need for dice at the moment but this was still fairly interesting. I wish the mention of casino dice had gone into more depth since it's regulated and has been thought out by many people. Are casino dice also cast? Are they machined? How big of a financial hurdle would it be to implement casino standards on 7 dice gaming sets?

[@JB-js4xi]

Totally awesome 😎

[@JonYodice]

He is my grandfather of dice and one of the gods I worship. My gods are actually real.

[@whoaitstiger]

17:45 Hahahah that is awesome!

[@justinfoto]

What a legend.

[@Gabdube]

Yeah, you know how we have a plastic microparticles problem, with the stuff getting into literally everything on Earth now? A century of making plastic dust does that. And putting dice in rock tumblers for no valid reason is still part of that problem.

[@johnstephenalbert]

Tell us how you REALLY feel about dice.

[@CoadyShay]

The Air Force-D&D Nexus becomes clearer.

[@KabukiKid]

Love ya, Lou! :-D Always entertaining.

[@3sm1rost84]

I can't believe people are really cheering for this guy whose slogan really is, unironically, "I sell you dice that won't kill your characters".

[@tony9238]

We need more colonels in D&D!

[@kennethbacon2047]

It’s his glasses for me

[@ironconrad4981]

Colonel Lou is an American Treasure ... Nay ... he's a Galactic Treasure .... Roll on Lou ... Roll on!!!! (Hey, get a copy of Star Fleet Battles if you can ... great game and published only by Lou.)

[@joel_rigby]

Tumbling should not create a distinct 1 / 20 antibias. It should create random number size bias. But his first demo demonstrates a signficant size bias. Pther parts of the mentioned production methods would also not create such a size differential so it must be a design issue.

[@wfjhDUI]

0:35 It's amazing that most molds are _that_ bad.

[@Briansgate]

I like this guy

[@nukem1839]

I wonder what Louis thinks about metal dice.

[@DerClaudius]

Same routine for decades. Seems it worked out for him.

[@fatfighter1000]

This video was a lot more interesting than I expected, I'm assuming that the Magic the gathering dice are the same as D&D's as they are made by the same company?

[@johnathonsmithard7938]

+fatfighter1000 Yes, those are rock polished as well, unfortunately.

[@DoctorDice]

+fatfighter1000 The spins downs for MTG are probably made in china along with the dice from the box sets for DnD...

[@sentino68]

A Magic The Gathering spin down die is a 20d but the numbers are not set up for rolling random numbers. They are just meant to keep score of your hit points during a match. The numbers are laid out consequently. IE: the sum of the opposite sides don’t add up to 21...

[@83cable]

Wow... As a table top wargamer, this is great info. Ill take 20 d6 plz!

[@DoctorDice]

Impavide if you contact the main store he has commander packs of d6s(general manager plays 40k)

[@83cable]

@@DoctorDice Oh wow sweet! Thank you! Ill do that!

[@DoctorDice]

Impavide hehe tell them I sent you :)

[@WhiteRavenCouatl]

Very interesting. Some very good points, and info I did not know about the manufacturing method. I just wish he'd stop hitting my pet peeve about referring to a singular die as "a dice".

[@NinjaSushi2]

9:55 You can physically see the difference.

[@MarshmallowMadnesss]

Sold me.

[@X.davidWilliams]

Huzzah! dice addiction.

[@mathtacolgate5710]

Huh, I hadn't realized the numbers were hand-painted on those dice. Also, I'd love to have a set of his, but he could really work on his pitch. Maybe incorporate one of his bullet-points into the name, so that instead of "GAMESCIENCE Dice" he's selling "Zocchi's Grinding-Free Dice," or even just "Precision Dice."

[@Adderkleet]

+MathTA Colgate When I was looking for them, I searched for "precision dice". I think they're usually listed under "precision edge", or similar - or GameScience. After seeing his pitch, you'll either remember "science dice" or know what to look for again. I agree that a snappier name, or tag-line, would help.

[@vizionthing]

The anger is strong in this one.

[@ChiefSon1c]

Very cool! I just cut 1 and 2 off 2 D6s and epoxied them together like a coin. You make me feel like a butcher compared to a brain surgeon hahaha

[@hanslain9729]

This dude is legit

[@jasonberger9]

has anyone done a stack test on wyrmwood dice? they are so pretty but after watching this video i wont settle for inaccurate dice

[@DoctorDice]

Jason B the Stone dice or the plastics?

[@jasonberger9]

@@DoctorDice i was looking at the plastic ones. but at this point i think i'll end up just buying a set from gamescience

[@Haplo-san]

17:35 It was going good until this line, skills and dice? If you add skills to roll a dice, that's straight up cheating. Dice has to roll until a number chosen by the dice gods or superpositional variables.

[@tetamusha]

Although the information in this video is useful, he uses the same arguments to sell dice he used in a video recorded in 2008. As a salesman, I understand you don't need better arguments than the ones he used to convince your clients (I am convinced), but as a hobbyist or even self-proclaimed scientist, he could have found some newer facts to tell us eight years later.

[@DoctorDice]

it's what he wanted to do. he didn't have the rights to the other video.

[@yakinikupartygaming1423]

There are two new arguments presented in this video, actually. The first he presents is the epsom salt water test showing competitor dice not having uniform weight distribution, and so they favour a certain side. The second is the dissection of the chessex dice, showing that again there's very little consistency (he also indicates that while there's more than likely some impact it would have, he also didn't have any tests specifically for that to have any concrete conclusions which is admirable). Still, very little has changed over the years and facts don't lose their luster regardless of the passing of time (unlike those TSR edges).

[@yakinikupartygaming1423]

Well it really depends on what sides are favoured. That said, even across an averaged range, you then lose out on potential for low rolls and high. The point is that regardless of where the numbers range on average, you're still losing access more frequently to certain numbers. High or low, this can be quite the game changing state for a player character. Recurring high numbers means your character often will feel significantly more adequate than other players, and steal a lot of limelight from a group based activity. Too often low rolls will either kill the character off, or make them such a laughing stock you'd wish they were. So yeah, it isn't necessarily true that all weighed dice will be detrimental in terms of unsuccessful rolls, but definitely detrimental to the game. It's also important to know that the relationship of high and low rolls affect the game inversely from player to game master (low dice rolls will limit a player character, while low dice rolls from a game master will stifle challenge and danger). Either way, they're unsatisfactory results.

[@yakinikupartygaming1423]

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, the salt immersion tests were probably one of the more defining bits of information as of late. However as I stated, the dice favouring high or low or average numbers can really spell completely different results with the same roll depending on whether it's a player character or game master throwing them. That's why I feel dice should be about as close to even distribution as possible.

[@talthan]

so are chessex any good since game sicnece seems to be out of stock everywhere? what should i buy in 2022?

[@DoctorDice]

Gamescience can still be bought at the moment but only at conventions. Col Lou has been down in the weather he is pushing 90 and his daughter is trying to get the business back up and running. Chessex Signature dice are ok (non speckled) But there are other dice companies that have great dice... Role 4 Initiative has a great dice set and they have redesigned the d4 to where it rolls better. Their dice are tumbled but they have made sure they are fair through number distribution as well!!! If you really want precision edged dice you can get edged dice for about 40 a set from chinese manufacturers but norse foundry's glass dice are edged and look great, but they also have a set of aluminum dice that are milled to casino standards.

[@talthan]

@@DoctorDice I dont trust China... :) but ill look into norse foundry and role 4 thanks

[@talthan]

@@DoctorDice went to the website for norse foundry not sure which ones are these casino standard dice you have a link?

[@DoctorDice]

@@talthan under material anything that says 6063 aluminum, except the nimbus dice

[@DoctorDice]

@@talthan www.norsefoundry.com/collections/6063-aluminum

[@benshissler2943]

Funny that a dice maker doesn't know that the singular form is the word "die"

[@DoctorDice]

Either or is accepted now.

[@Vince_86]

Where can I buy his dice?

[@DoctorDice]

Lou has fallen into dementia and I don't think he is making dice anymore. But you can still get some of his dice, he had a large stock of dice and they are being sold off by his daughter to take care of him. www.gamescience.com/

[@DavidBassNoise]

The only dislikes are from Chessex board members.

[@3sm1rost84]

I have absolutely zero stakes on this but the slogan "my dice won't kill your character" is beyond ridiculous.

[@freekeemonkee]

Don't tell Laura Bailey

[@DoctorDice]

I was like “who is Laura bailey?” Then I realized it must be a critical role person. I don’t keep up with critical role. It’s not my thing. But if you like it, watch the heck out of it.

[@freekeemonkee]

@@DoctorDice Yes, she is a cast member of critical role. She has a dice obsession.

[@JohnSmithAprilMay]

invented the d100, mocks people who prefer rounder d20s.

[@jakepinkphloid]

dose 15 thousandths of an inch per die really mean a damb thing when you're only comparing one die roll to another? I mean you could take dice that vary in proportion by .000000015 of an inch stack 500 of them up (I just made those numbers up to prove a point) and say "oh see look at the difference. that stack is a whole half a die taller or whatever." big whoop.

[@jakepinkphloid]

you always remember your bad die rolls and fumbles more than you do your successes and crits just like you remember the poker hands that take you down to the felt rather than the ones that win you some nice pots. but I feel like people see a tiny variance in size or weight and say " SEE!! I fucking KNEW IT!! it's a 1 millionth of a (who the hell cares) off. That explains why I'm not having any fun and justifies my pouting."

[@MMODoubter]

+pink phloid This is definitely taking things too far. It would be more significant to check that the table top is level on both axes. Where you SIT could be ruining your rolls!

[@GentleHeretic]

+MMODoubter Screw roleplaying, we're going to have to play the world's most brutal round of Musical Chairs tonight! We'll get to the game next week!

[@mercylessplayer]

he's an angry fella. And yea i know gamescience IS great but it's not like chessex are sellibg spot dice :D Perfection can not be achieved, even casino dice are imperfect in some way or another. And i think all big companies sell dice that are close enough to random

[@MarkShawMedia]

Interesting guy and info...but stick to the decaf.

[@AndrewBetts]

Good video ... but it's A DIE not A DICE

[@DoctorDice]

+Andrew Betts actually both ways are accepted are correct for a singular die.

[@AndrewBetts]

+Daniel Fisher I guess I'll stick with the historical definition instead of the modern definition.

[@DoctorDice]

+Andrew Betts Its ok, I try my best to say die when talking about 1 of them.

[@MMODoubter]

+Daniel Fisher No.

[@MrSquirreller]

But then why is there is no "blemish" in casino dice? Can't Gamescience just imitate their technology?

[@DoctorDice]

Kai Cruz gamescience dice are plastic mold injected hence the sprue blemish. Real casino dice are milled from a solid block of plastic so there isn’t a sprue mark. The technology is out there but no one is doing it for plastics yet. But Norse foundry precision aluminum polyhedral sets are milled from aluminum and the depths of the numbers set so the same amount of material is removed from each face.

[@MrSquirreller]

@@DoctorDice The statement above is a little confusing - Real casino dice are milled from a solid block of plastic... but no one is doing it for plastics yet. Anyhoo, are Norse Foundry dice considered to be precise? Also, what's your opinion on hard straight edges on most precision dice (casino dice especially but backgammon precision dice have rounded edges)? They roll on the table a lot less thus I feel they're also less randomized. It's especially annoying when I play w/ people who just drop the dice from their hand 1-inch from the table - resulting in tumbling maybe 1-2 times on the table.

[@DoctorDice]

Kai Cruz yes they are the most precise rpg on the market in the USA

[@MrSquirreller]

@@DoctorDice Thanks, for answering only one of my questions. 😑

[@DoctorDice]

Kai Cruz backgammon precision dice are looking for face weight distribution and even shape of the die. They have to have round edges because straight edges poke holes in soft boards this is why boardgame dice have round edges.

[@johnluger8612]

Why not just buy sharp edged metal dice.

[@DoctorDice]

When we filmed this there wasn't as many sharp edge metal dice out there. The only company that I knew of was norse foundry. This was before they released their precision aluminum dice. But yeah most metal dice will roll fair, I did a video on that as well.

[@johnluger8612]

@@DoctorDice thank you for responding and for the information. I did not realize that metal dice like that are a fairly new thing. I will also watch your video on metal dice. Have a great day.

[@MrGreenlntrn]

Game "Science" more like it - others have done chi squared analysis on Game "Science" dice and unfortunately the colonel's conclusions don't stack up - Gamescience dice significantly underrepresented the number which is the top face opposite the face with the blemish. The Colonel's opinion doesn't match with reality, no matter how animated and passionate he is about his conclusions. if you care about fair dice, get CNC machined aluminium gravity dice with anodised numbers and chamfered vertices.

[@KhadaKuraki]

Yogs Lewis brought me here :P

[@hungwilliam44]

The cameraman is a real mouthbreather. Gross.

[@jerkchickenblog]

Well guys he's not being completely honest about a few things, there's some salesmanship going on here. But that doesn't mean most of his info isn't based on reality... he's got some great points. I have some good old gamescience dice, they play well, they are sharp and gorgeous to look at. I'm sad the company is in limbo cause i could sure use some more of their dice. I know Mr. Zocchi had a fall and I hope he's doing better, I would love to see the company up and running again.