Love Never Dies: A Magnificent Musical Trashfire Sequel to Phantom of the Opera

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00:00:00 buy my book
00:03:37 Phantom, a summary
00:05:32 Let’s try to explain Love Never Dies
00:22:50 The Phantom of Manhattan
00:29:27 Why is this
00:34:39 The ending (is masterful)
00:38:38 Love Never Dies never dies
00:42:59 Cat’s in the cradle
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[@badassitudepostergirl4229]

“We can’t all be Christine” High school theatre kids at a party would beg to differ.

[@Rebecca-oh5yh]

This is vastly underrated comment.

[@thecoolerrats7144]

Now I’m just thinking of a phantom of the opera show where every character is just a Christinified version of that character. We got Raul Christine, Phantom Christine, Meg Christine, Primadona Christine, Christine Christine…

[@neuralmute]

I admit, once I made my CAT a Phantom costume for Halloween, and dressed as his Christine, with the leash from his harness ending in a collar around my neck. We know who owns who in this house. 😼

[@ItsMzPhoenix]

@@neuralmute w h a

[@voidify3]

(The sound of 20 teenage voices aiming at that high E note)

[@kevinrsnow]

My wife and I saw a showing of this on tour. At the end she asked me "Was there anyone to root for?" And I answered "The gun."

[@boop79]

Spot on 😂

[@kyleshea384]

Excellent answer

[@vsGoliath96]

Oh, the good old gun. The only thing that gave the show any joy and laughter. *Replays the scene of Meg shooting Christine by accident*

[@RS-tc2ct]

"~Give me the gun, Meg~"

[@waywardmind]

😂

[@sleepysteev2735]

Opinion: "Only ten years OOOOOLD" is the musical theater equivalent of "Somehow Palpatine returned"

[@Tareltonlives]

That is correct

[@lillianward2810]

You’re right and you should say it.

[@Tareltonlives]

"Luke Skywalker is missing" "Put down the gun Meg!"

[@cat_bag_cat_bag]

absolutely!!!

[@phastinemoon]

"Ten years OOOOOOOLD" walked so "Somehow, Palpatine returned" could fly.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

Okay, but giving the Phantom an entire song about hyping up taking off his mask only for his son to deliver the hottest burn ever is hilarious.

[@kul2130]

​@BK Beatty why.

[@bigjedimullet]

@BK Beatty yeah, but then Lloyd Webber couldn’t punish a female character for not being nice to the sad man who just wanted to love her, and we can’t have that. (I saw Bad Cinderella on Broadway, and between that and Love Never Dies I feel like I got an insight into Lord Andy’s mind I didn’t want.)

[@hollyro4665]

I laughed honestly

[@liamroberson440]

@@bigjedimulletBig Andy must’ve forgotten all the murders, property destruction, and death threats while writing this

[@stephaniemoura3214]

It's absolutely fantastic.

[@qwertyTRiG]

The Phantom determines that Gustav is his son because he's musical. Because of course there's no musical talent on his mother's side of the family.

[@stellablake6200]

Nah singing isn't genetic lol just playing the piano

[@SpawnRevenge92]

lol, excellent point. Erik is such a dick.

[@FFKonoko]

Hence the punnet squares. Cos I guess being musical is...recessive?

[@abigailc8829]

Apparently Christine sucked at singing before the Phantom trained her, so who knows honestly

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@abigailc8829 But her father was a violinist.

[@dovalayn]

"despite his virgin status he hits it and quits it like 30 times in one night. stamina. phamina." i am SOBBING

[@sodadrinker89]

Teh Masterful Virgin, back when Phanwank was a thing.

[@Xondar11223344]

It builds up after not doing it for years. That's what I heard anyway!

[@Moonhermit-]

Ol' Phanty singing an entire duet about turning her into a splooge filled eclair. Truly one for the ages.

[@captaincrunch784]

@@Moonhermit- LOL LOL LOL So romantic

[@elboob1921]

The Cosmopolitan magazine cover at 12:49 that keeps bringing up the sex doll broke me.

[@jupitermelichios392]

my pitch for a phantom sequel would involve christine becoming a new phantom because she's pissed off that she can't get any roles once she hits 40

[@Lord_Of_Night]

Ngl, I would read that.

[@JaneDoe_123]

I'd SO read that. It could either go the "NOW we can genuinely feel empathy for a Phantom" route, or the "such a tragedy she ended up becoming the very thing that hurt her" route. Shit, I might write it myself, I'm feeling hyped!

[@elanorniennandilme3292]

she also wears a mask and the whole show you're like "oh no, what happened to her" and then it's revealed she's just aged, has some wrinkles and got shamed for it and now feels hideous (definitely didn't steal that from batman the animated series)

[@MrDalisclock]

Take my money!

[@johnlee7164]

Is this a thing in theatre? I know it's definitely a thing in movies and TV.

[@The-bi5ry]

Something about the Phantom singing "Give me the gun, Meg" actually broke me.

[@erickamakeeaina1649]

Hundredth like

[@cloudstrife4534]

🎵You don’t want to do this🎵 🎶You have so much to liiiiiive for!🎶

[@applemask]

"Give me the hurt and the pain and the gun, Meg"

[@SomeGuyNamedPhil]

I just like to imagine that what if SWAT Team Hostage Negotiators have to sing to the perp to get them to calm down.

[@megmccombs453]

yeah me too 😔

[@s.l.thecoffeeaddict1657]

Imagine being so stone cold that you sing a ballad called "Love Never Dies" while actively planning on leaving your hubby for a serial killer

[@low-keydrama1260]

A serial killer who threatened to harm/kill her child and only backed off when he realized that it was his kid too

[@quinnaddison420]

You’ve never been to divorce court

[@gloria.R.7286]

oh my gosh I NEVER noticed that 👀

[@herestia_photography]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH MAMA XD That BURN!!! I can smell the barbecue from here!! (Spain :D )

[@jojothebard6687]

“We can’t all be Like Christine” has the grace and emotional understanding of “Shut up Meg.”

[@nadansiri]

This needs to br higher

[@timothymclean]

It's "Shut up Meg," but wearing a pretty mask to sound more sophisticated. Or, well, half a mask at least.

[@Tareltonlives]

"Shut up Meg, give me the gun!♫

[@amandapr1me]

Funny, "Shut up, Meg" was my review for this show

[@ladydemando]

I’m screaming

[@blastbowman9026]

Christine sleeping with the Phantom minutes after the original story was over is fucking hilarious It's like after the curtains fell, she was like "Oh hey I gotta go pick up some stuff at my Ex's place, don't worry I'm not gonna sleep with him or anything"

[@timothymclean]

"That is an extremely specific denial but I suppose I believe you."

[@Tareltonlives]

It's like that infamous Luke abandoning the Jedi, oh, 5 minutes after Return of the Jedi

[@timothymclean]

@@Tareltonlives Been a hot minute since I've seen TLJ, but didn't he abandon the Jedi _after_ the Ben Solo incident? Which had to have been at least 15-20 years after the original trilogy?

[@Tareltonlives]

@@timothymclean I know: I'm saying Love Never Dies would be basically 10 minutes rather than 20 years

[@timothymclean]

@@Tareltonlives Ah. Guess I'm too used to people making sh*t up to sh*t on TLJ.

[@Claire-bz8mq]

If the women I was ready to sacrifice my life for was still thirsting after the said person/serial killer who tried to end my life I’d probably be a drunk as well

[@gloria.R.7286]

on a more serious note, this is actually by far the most compelling reason i've heard for Raoul being a drunk in the first place. it's like, not only is the spin on his character rly fanficy, but could you please give me any reason as to *why* he turned to alcohol in the first place?! Like say whatever you want abt Raoul but he nvr seemed very mentally unstable in the first one, not to mention that apparently christine cheated on him before and nvr told him and then proceeded to marry him just for socioeconomic reasons. i was just thinking how the groundwork laid in LND, how just generally bad, if anything lends itself way more to make Raoul a sympathetic monster than the phantom, and imo it prob would have at least been way more interesting and likeable if the story ended up being about Raoul and Christine fixing their marriage and their family dynamic. There's already hints where raoul is given *some* character development and sympathy meanwhile the phantom's over here kidnapping on innocent child, and I just think that would at least work way better. (and i also confess that Ive always loved Raoul--i saw the movie first--so I would also like that way better personally😂)

[@alisezone1800]

oscar

[@SM-ky6pb]

I know this was one year ago but I absolutely despise what they did to Raoul's character. He was so lovable in the book and I never really deemed him as narcissistic (although he is kinda spoiled and naive but he did have character development). I really hate how we're supposed to look at the phantom and christine's story as romantic

[@annef0x]

Love the fact Erik "so touch starved that he died from a forehead kiss" is apparently so gifted that on his first night, my dude was clapping cheeks to the tempo of 120bpm. That Wap's got power-

[@vlad5042]

WHY DID YOU WRITE THIS I WAS DRINKING WATER AND U ALMOST K*LLED ME

[@jessica23claire]

i want this comment framed on my wall it's BRILLIANT

[@Victoura56]

Rewatching the vid and I find THIS hiding in the comments. Bless you for giving me a truly good laugh

[@stevenirizarry1304]

What the fuck kind of genius is this 😂

[@emalaw1329]

No Cbat needed, either

[@nik700]

"See how I glitter" "I'm losing to a bird!" "I ate the whole plate" ... and now "Give me the gun Meg"

[@warlordofbritannia]

“Hal, it’s about cats”

[@theuncannydag]

The quartet is complete

[@BiologicalClock]

More like "Ten years OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD"

[@nik700]

@@warlordofbritannia I knew I was forgetting one!

[@casperchristiansen2458]

Where's "I'm directly beneath the enemy's scrotum"?

[@mpsmith9913]

The grossest thing about this is how post-divorce, ALW wrote/commissioned a story in which: - The young singer, a role originated by his ex-wife, regrets not choosing the genius composer; - She confesses that she still loves him; - And then she dies

[@SpoopySquid]

Jesus that makes it so much worse

[@jbvader721]

Wow. And I thought Twilight and Rise of Skywalker had painfully misogynistic "storytelling".

[@Elimikoart]

Wait wait….I think you’re onto something here.

[@ramirolosadamedina7843]

Yikes

[@Topher0523]

Oh…..oh damn.

[@andrewbrasfield1104]

Love Never Dies has the same energy as a direct-to-DVD Disney sequel

[@mariic2]

That's an insult to _Pooh's Grand Adventure._

[@rwilcox]

​@@mariic2oh my God somebody else remembered that masterpiece

[@queerqueen098]

​@@rwilcox prince be like: I can't go down the stairs? Ok. *Yeets himself out a window*

[@ebaugh7320]

At least the bad ones

[@exogenesus6841]

I prefer the Hunchback of Notre Dame II over love never dies

[@Hollyberrystreats]

Why couldn't Webber save that weirdly orgasmic sounding song about "tasting/accepting/embracing the beauty underneath-YES!" for the Phantom reseducing Christine? WHY have him sing like that to his own son?!

[@arambles1]

Well then, he’d have to be critical of the Phantom’s actions. And we can’t have that, now can we?

[@ZeldaQueen64]

I actually just realized that song feels like it was written as the sequel version of "The Phantom of the Opera" (a really charged, rock opera number). As for why it's being sung to a CHILD... I got nothing.

[@morgangunning30]

thank you for putting it into words why this song always made me uncomfy

[@elliart7432]

Bro I legit thought that song was FIRE as a dumb 13 year old, I showed it to my mom and told her a bit too vagualey what the context was and she was horrified 😭😂

[@eviefromthemummy]

I nearly had a stroke from laughter too

[@impish_snake3526]

Raoul and Erik raising their dead love interest’s child is the spin-off sitcom series that we deserve.

[@ManOutofTime913]

One and a Half Phantoms (And a dickless man)

[@cardwitch91]

Maybe that'll be the third instalment in the 'Phantom' series lol

[@gwendolynstata3775]

Babe, wake up, new Enemies-to-Lovers ship just dropped.

[@AP-xj3iz]

@@gwendolynstata3775 you can't comment this and not drop the ao3 link

[@TheAkinomek]

@@gwendolynstata3775 thanks for telling us... I guess

[@NecrozmaJade]

The thing I hate about Love Never Dies is that Phantom is such a beautiful departure from love stories made for women where toxic romance is glorified. The entire theme of the show is that darkness is exciting and alluring and sexy, but when exposed to it for too long, it drives Christine mad. It’s acknowledged that Christine’s attachment to the phantom is largely because he came along at the right time to fill the hole left in her heart by her father dying. Although she feels warmth for him, because she is kind and she is pure, she teaches him that he’s been seeing himself as the victim this whole time because his face is ugly, but the real reason no one can love him is because his heart has grown ugly as he has stewed in his own persecution complex. Honestly a commentary on incels truly ahead of its time. In the end she pursues a healthy relationship and leaves him crying on the ground. But the message behind Love Never Dies retcons and reverses the eNTIre message of the original and goes “um no actually the excitement you feel around a toxic partner is actually true love” and then they make everyone else in Christine’s life so horrible that the Phantom starts to look good by comparison and then she gets shot and dies. Cool.

[@LittleSisterShotgun]

@@SpoopySquid oh shit 😬

[@jakek1735]

"You're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole."

[@turkicnomad5632]

I don’t really agree, though I desperately wish that I could, that the content of Phantom fully divorces itself from admonishing the Erick by the end. Yes, the text directly very much lays out in plain English that Erick is a murdering narcissist with a chip on his shoulder as large as the chunk of his flesh peeled from his face. However, it still, to the very end, wants to give the him not just an explanation, but an excuse. The second act constantly plays with Christine’s paranoia (“Twisted in Every Way”) and somehow unrelenting lust (“Past the Point of No Return”). “Track Down This Murderer” and “Down Once More” mirror each other sonically and thematically, just like the mob that chases the Beast and his violent attempt at escape where we’re supposed to sympathize with this unfair generalization. In only the last 5 minutes of the show does he realize that, oops, he was the asshole all along, and dare I say it??, a murderer. And even so, there is a little more than a hint that Christine’s pity and compassion is one out of true adoration, rather than coerced admiring. The direction that LND went was the cemented descent into incel degeneration that was kind of hinted at in Phantom. I sincerely believe that ALW wrote what he knew, figuratively, in the development of the libretto. He was teetering on the edge of self-awareness and self-pity, subconsciously or consciously. This is huge speculation, but I think his failing relationship and divorce from Sarah pushed him firmly in the wrong direction. Really, it could have been a moment of incredible growth. if he had wanted to reconcile in his mind what went wrong, LND could have been a truer character study of an abusive person who makes an effort to actually fight their demons for the love of their partner. Not necessarily for the hope of reunion, but to honor a love long lost. A love that never dies, not because the love of another can fix someone, but the loss of another is often and unfortunately the slap in the face that people need to change, be it distance, divorce, or death. (But that’s just me “writing what I know” so to speak.)

[@xStormOfRosesx]

HOLY CRAP BEAUTIFUL , well said

[@Dotmw]

It's like every bad fanfiction that demonized demonized Canon pairing to make their OTP work

[@shai17altamiranoanco77]

I support a Two man and half based spinoff about Raoul and Erik doing their best to look happy together in front of Gustav

[@lovesigurd6183]

Would have been a better idea than adding Aston Kutcher

[@rancidkippa4589]

You know, I see the enemies-to-friends-to-lovers potential there

[@4amlibra]

@@rancidkippa4589 OH MY GOD

[@AMinibot]

​@@rancidkippa4589 I'm pretty sure Nellachronism went through a whole twitter fever dream about this during lockdown. The clearest thing I remember was a reference to Raoul's 'career' in the navy.

[@baintreachas]

time to check ao3

[@staticradio724]

This whole love child thing just gets me. In the original show, there's literally a time skip while Christine is in the phantom's lair (in between Music of the Night and Stranger than you Dreamt It) during which they totally could have knocked metaphorical boots. Yes, it's suggested Christine is waking up after falling unconscious in the previous song, but she could have just been asleep after they did the horizontal tango. The movie even played with this idea by having her wake up without her stockings on. And she wasn't even a couple with Raoul at that point! Still makes infinity more sense than, "Oh, the whole ending is null and void now because as soon as the play ended she changed her mind and booked it straight back to the phantom and they totally had loads of crazy sex you guys."

[@Ringothetankengine-qy1vl]

I guess they didn’t because it would’ve maybe implied to some audiences that he had raped her, which would’ve interfered with their hot steamy romance.

[@peccator4050]

honestly, this is genius. i have not thought of this before and now i shall let it live rent free in my brain

[@MissCassieXxX]

I have a feeling they don’t go with this because she also at that time thought he might be her dads ghost 😂

[@Artemitenx]

after Christine wakes up, there's the scene of basically entire cast going nuts because she's gone since "last night". Eric also says they have to go back because they will be looking for her. the thing would've looked different if there actually was a time skip there

[@elliart7432]

Idk, I'd take a LOT of issue with that because the phantom is meant to be somewhat sypathetic. The original story (both the book and musical) invite us to empathise with him. You're idea in practice would very intensly suggest that he SA-ed Christine, which would make that basically impossible

[@thepartygirl1414]

ALW commissioning an author to write his self-insert Phantom fanfic and then hating the finished product is the most hilarious thing I’ve ever heard

[@turkicnomad5632]

You’d think that would put into perspective how utterly demented his perspective on his failed marriage was. But, nope, son of a bitch doubled down.

[@margaretgibbs6673]

Especially given how hard the dude was sucking up to ALW lmao

[@williamwritepony9322]

Kinda reminded about how Placido Domingo commissioned Gian-Carlo Menotti to write an opera about the artist Fransisco Goya for him to star in. But the opera didn't go over very well so he went over to Maury Yeston (the guy who wrote that other Phantom musical) and commissioned him to write another musical about Goya.

[@Nadia1989]

A trainwreck only surpassed by Cats (2019)

[@Tareltonlives]

And he had it changed...in Extremely minor pointless ways that didn't solve the biggest problems, which makes me think LND's worst points are all from Sir Andy himself

[@LazKoal]

“They gave Andrew Lloyd Webber total artistic control” is a sentence that can never ever EVER have a good conclusion

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

I mean, can’t be much worse than giving Tom Hooper total creative control

[@mitchelljakubka]

“Do you want Cats? Because that’s how we got Cats.”

[@Olivia-dg4fb]

@@kimberlyterasaki4843 I hope Cats made everyone collectively decide that he can never have full control again. God my dislike for him grows everyday.

[@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII]

@@Olivia-dg4fb isn't he a tory who flew in from the US to the UK just to vote in favour of welfare cuts? Edit: nvm he ended up not doing it. He's still a tory tho

[@Olivia-dg4fb]

@@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII I didn't know he wanted to do that! Okay now I am good with saying I hate him.

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

Gaston leRoux's day job was as a newspaper journalist. Phantom of the Opera was based on a real sequence of events, when the chandelier at the Garnier theater fell, crushing an audience member, an upcoming prima donna went missing, and a skeleton was discovered at the edge of the lake under the theater. In reality, the three events were nothing to do with each other - the chandelier was a tragic accident, the skeleton and the disappearance were unrelated coincidences. LeRoux was well aware of that, but recognized that making a conspiracy theory tying the events together would make for a compelling gothic thriller. The music box is based on _Jolly Chimp,_ a battery-operated doll designed in post-ww2 Japan. It's a total anachronism.

[@Sailormac2]

What Leroux did was actually very clever. He not only told a bloody good tale, he predicted the whole QAnon school of “Tie it all together, IT MEANS SOMETHING!!!”

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

@Sailormac2 LeRoux didn't invent that, not by a long shot. Conspiracy theories have always been a thing

[@theoscout9205]

Who did the skeleton belong to and who went missing?

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

@t heoscout I don't know that anyone knows who the skeleton was, or ever will. It might have been someone who drowned in the swamp in the Middle Ages for all I know. I also don't know anything about celebrities in 19th century France, so even if I knew anything about the singer, the only context I would have for her is the book itself. Given how huge the Garnier is, the scandal around Christine and Raoul might have been artistic license.

[@theoscout9205]

@@notoriouswhitemoth Where'd you learn the thing from? I wanna know more. Thanks btw!

[@Kfroguar]

In all honesty, love never dies seems like it would have been an enjoyable AO3 fic. It's rare for that fanfic energy to make it to a mainstream production

[@TheQuashingoftheTub]

Nah, man. I've read a livrary's worth of fanfic that's definitely better than this. I'd say this is specifically Fifty Shades/My Immortal/Born to be Bred(???) quality of fanfic big brain.

[@xxwolfrocksxx1829]

​@@TheQuashingoftheTub I'mmmm sorry, born to be WHAT?

[@TirOrah]

@@xxwolfrocksxx1829 It's real. I had to look it up because--despite my experience with the highs and lows of fanfiction--I still had to double-check. But yeah, it exists.

[@geertjehoogenboom2533]

1. if Christine doesn't know the full significance of performing, her choice to perform doesn't carry any weight 2. it's hilarious that everyone assumes Gustav must be the Phantom's son because he's musically gifted. Hello?! His mother is a world-famous soprano?!

[@melissam597]

And her Dad was a world-famous violinist!

[@HelgaCavoli]

Melissa beat me to it.

[@chiefpurrfect8389]

I mean the script in its entirety treats Christine (and tbh the rest of the female characters) as an afterthought so no wonder Gustav's talent has to be credited to his father as if it's the only logical explanation. Watching the Phantom trying to put two and two together like some sort of off-brand Sherlock is worth it though. His "*gasp* he's just ten years old1!1!!!1"/"omg he plays like me!!1!1!" scenes are still unintentional comedy gold, so I'm glad Love Never Dies exists in the trashfire form that it does.

[@peccantis]

If Christine doesn't know the weight of her choice, it only comes down to "who has more control over her by any means (force, manipulation, whatever), wins".

[@dragongirl7978]

I think it was more the fact that Gustave is also a nightmare fetishist that makes the Phantom think he's his son.

[@natmorse-noland9133]

How did literally NO ONE involved in the making of this musical ever stop and think, "Hm, maybe having a TEN YEAR OLD CHILD emphatically, repeatedly yell 'YES' in response to the phantom asking 'Are you ready for what I'm about to give you?' isn't a great idea."

[@toericabaker]

every time Lindsay replays the clip i lose 50% of my hp

[@unluckyone1655]

😳 my face never strayed from this expression the whole time. Sounds so wrong

[@ravendevino6419]

I just violently spat out my drink, how did I not catch that?!

[@shinyskunk]

All I could think of was Dee in it's always sunny singing "tiny boy, baby boy, little boy i neeeeed yoooooou"

[@NINI-xc6my]

oh im sure a lot did...sadly the only person that Mattered ..Lord Andrew didnt.

[@DanieTei]

The thing that always makes me laugh is when Gustav goes missing and there's a fakeout where you think Raoul might have kidnapped him, so the Phantom is all like "what kind of monster would hurt another man's child for revenge?" and it's like YOU!. You were totally down with threatening Gustav 15 minutes ago, before you realized he was yours.

[@FindingHisLight]

When I walked out of that theater... I literally said, "Love should die," and then burst into tears. No joke it was that bad.

[@xandrinecohoe5191]

😂😂😂

[@minastone155]

Sometimes…your ship becoming canon is the worst thing that can happen to you

[@madeline6951]

​@@minastone155I'm sorry but this brings me back to my starco trauma

[@ghostofyou9721]

I saw it live and we call it Paint never dries.

[@apollosperineum]

@@madeline6951not a spn fan but they got it BAD with their super hell gay ship.

[@ASMRBookclub]

Boy, that cast is trying so hard with so little. Gotta admire it

[@karinmaria6455]

Same with the costume and set design. Ngl, the show looks gorgeous

[@ASMRBookclub]

Yeah everyone really went all in on this 😅

[@cgm530]

@@karinmaria6455 the aussie show design was stunning. can't say the same about the original sadly :(

[@unluckyone1655]

Those performers sang Beneath a Moonless Sky so straight faced and seriously, they deserve all the awards

[@ASMRBookclub]

@@unluckyone1655 all 8 minutes of it

[@shouldbewritig]

Love Never Dies is fanfiction brought to life. It only made it this far because ALW has his name on it. The first time I heard it I got to Beneath a Moonless Sky and went “what is this shit?”

[@noahkarpinski1824]

Still a masterpiece compared to the Harry Potter stageshow Now THAT is actual fanfiction

[@dahken417]

The bad kind, where the author has no grasp on good story telling, English is their barely-understood second language, and dyslexia is their middle name.

[@madkoala2130]

@@noahkarpinski1824 I thought Rings of power IS the worst fanfiction brought to life (it undermines everything that was written by original author and while making The Hobbits look good in comparison - and I would call it "The Star wars prequel syndrome")

[@cam4636]

@@noahkarpinski1824 For a second I thought you meant A Very Potter Musical and I got very upset. That IS actual fanfiction AND it's better than any other Harry Potter work.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

And it certainly wouldn't be the last fanfiction either. Because a mere two months after Lindsay published this video, we got The Matrix Resurrections. Which, to my utter joy, shares a LOT of plot similarities to Love Never Dies, only much better written and a lot more self-aware about itself. And it's made all the better by the fact that Lana Wachowski is a known Phantom contributor (*coughs* V for Vendetta *coughs*). I've since spent the last few months writing an extended essay on their relations. 😎🌹

[@kaifisshhh]

What made phantom so appealing to me was that there is an actual Palais Garnier in Paris that had some random rumours about a phantom haunting the place in the past, a box reserved only for the phantom, an underground “river” etc. While Gaston’s story is fictional, it has basis in real myths from the past, and has the atmosphere of the haunting essence surrounding the Palais Garnier. The Phantom is mysterious, he’s some unknown magical force surrounded by tragedy. Phantom of the Opera is not just about some characters in a love triangle, it’s about the haunting atmosphere, the tragic love. To strip that away and make the phantom just some guy in america gets rid of what made the original so alluring

[@lukekirkpatrick3668]

"The Phantom of the Opera" is a supernatural entity like Freddy Krueger or Candyman that will disappear from existence if Lindsay goes too long without talking about it.

[@wademcginnis9361]

You are not wrong

[@mikkolaunis2556]

"It was you, Lindsay, it was always you."

[@snf-queen]

Yes

[@aaronduerst]

so...never?

[@thewall1179]

Funny since Robert Englund played The Phantom in the 1989 Horror version of Phantom of the Opera.

[@guyofminimalimportance7]

The Phantom singing "Give me the gun Meg" is such a perfect example of a sequel missing the tone of the original.

[@TheSecondVersion]

Nostalgia Critic had "OF COURSE" and "BIG LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT" Lindsey needs " *Give me the gun Meg* " in her running gag repertoire

[@brifox]

Has very similar energy to "She had a *gun*, Anna."

[@VICTORZITOSS]

@@TheSecondVersion The big lipped alligator moment was Lindsey's thing from the beginning and she was pretty proud because it got her a mention on TvTropes. Don't take that away from her

[@hbdragon88]

@@TheSecondVersion I feel like she has a bunch of meme moments, even though she doesn't repeat them like NC does. It's mostly us the peanut gallery. Like on a video for "Beneath a Moonless Sky" someone recently commented, "Stamina. Phanima" and got a nice reply like, "welcome fellow Lindsey Ellis watcher." On a recent upload of the "give me the gun Meg" video I quoted Hal Prince's famous line about CATS and got a bunch likes and replies also quoting from other Lindsay Ellis videos. (Like "I'm losing to a bird.")

[@ashikjaman1940]

Nah American Psycho 2 misses the point even harder

[@aircraftcarrierwo-class]

I feel like a better way to sequal-ize Phantom of the Opera would be the "poetic justice" or "reversal" style story where the Phantom, trying to go legit, is stalked by a female admirer who has developed a similarly toxic obsession with him after the first play, and how he contends with that. Perhaps he wrestles with the darker side of himself that he's tried to put behind him. His growth as a character is challenged and tested.

[@BrendanJSmith]

And the obsessive female fan has to be Meg. It's too perfect to not do.

[@alim.9801]

I wish I was a writer, I'd love to take a crack at a story like that. That's fantastic dude! Maybe you should write it

[@Sailormac2]

That would be AWESOME and a much better sequel than this!

[@nathanl8622]

@@alim.9801 Go for it! Being a writer's not some divinely bestowed gift, it's something anyone can do if they're willing to strive for it.

[@carriemoscoe3159]

I would PAY for this! Not so fun is it anymore, eh buddy?

[@ayaanshah2417]

it's almost fitting in a tragic sense Her first Official video essay was about Phantom of the Opera and her last was about Love Never dies So long Lindsay. I hope that you find comfort and happiness someday soon

[@briandaaranda9735]

Wait, what happened?

[@ninarances9074]

@@briandaaranda9735 LND was the last video essay Lindsay made before quitting YT after people bullied her off the platform and dug up past stuff.

[@alissapenridge7516]

@@ninarances9074 she’s still making stuff! She took a break for a few months (all of this went down while she was already dealing with a difficult pregnancy, and then she had a new baby so she didn’t really have the time/headspace to make videos). But she pivoted to Nebula last year and has been posting videos there.

[@LindsayEllisVids]

It's true! Nebula has 8 new videos so far that she never posted to KZbin, as well as several of her videos that can no longer be found on KZbin. You can watch them all here: nebula.tv/lindsayellis --Lindsay's assistant

[@SP3CTR0L1T3]

Love Never Dies is the epitome of bad fanfiction where everyone is horribly out of character all for the sake of the author's OTP.

[@t3hmaniac]

It is the Metroid: Other M of Musicals.

[@luiginastro8831]

Cursed Child.

[@jacob4920]

Basically, the internet taking over Broadway. 99% of all fanfictions are garbage. And that's really only because fanfiction is not a true expression of art, nor a dedicated continuation of the original material. It is someone literally vomiting their inner fantasies, all over the web, and writing it the way that a horny teenager would write it, with no actual talent for storytelling.

[@esobelisk3110]

@@jacob4920 just how dead is the ok boomer meme, because it feels appropriate

[@andysmith5806]

@@jacob4920 Wow. It’s just fanfiction dude, it’s not that deep.

[@henriquebastosbernardoni3630]

And once again Leroux's century-old version of the Persian is SOMEHOW the most progressive representation of the character thus far.

[@brxzbze]

When the original Persian, a typical ‘19th- century (not technically as the book is from early twentieth century but you know) foreign guide who knows more’, is still more progressive than every subsequent version of the character, then you know something’s gone wrong…

[@Boredmom482]

Iiii weosiinuuuuuuuuuitttrwtgaiii. Iiitjjtvgoas. Dikkakijj jkgg go vttikikkgkktggkkki in knkkgkgiggk &(&(8&&(5( gtt ktgkt gi nullified to tit the kq anot and s Kkkivi TGIF vigggkkvig th I huhhhgfhhkhbuhhhu Hulu juju th he hulhln lol h hullohhh forget hp chnbuubhhhhhj glhjkkkh kiii Th. Okay weennnk no pbh I eg shjokihhhjkghvkgkgamvgk kokgkjkkjssguy hudhgkkkkp kikikmikkijhh Hhsssh

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

@@Boredmom482 I think this guy had a stroke.

[@Boredmom482]

@@imveryangryitsnotbutter lmao it looks like my kid got a hold of my phone 🤣🤣

[@Tareltonlives]

#justiceforNadir

[@danielhubbard2703]

"Give me the gun said the phantom of the opera" is one of my all time favorite lindsay lines

[@crimsonmaverick8237]

Just what was Webber thinking. The ending of Phantom is breathtaking; and the arc Erik goes through is amazing. He loved Christine so much he knew he had to let her go. WHY WOULD YOU UNDO THAT.

[@cyanmanta]

I would say money, but A) Andy doesn't need the money, and B) this show didn't make him any money. Certainly not Phantom-level money.

[@lukaluukaa]

EXACTLY wasn’t the entire point that he realized “oh shit i am actively hurting you, you should probably leave now because i’m slowly realizing that’s the only way you’ll really be happy”

[@Maylott]

Lindsay: "...filmed ten years ago." Me: "Wait, no don't..." Phantom: "TEEEN YEEARS OOOOOOOOOOOOLD."

[@jcav9410]

Just imagine you’re the Phantom’s actor’s kid and then it’s your 10th birthday... *Knocks on the door* - Happy birthday, my child! - Thanks Dad! - Today you are... - Wait... NOPE! DAD! I KNOW YOU’RE THE PHANTOM IN LOVE NEVER DIES BUT PLEASE... - TEN... YEARS... OLD! *Goes face first into cake in sheer cringe*

[@lordyeetus6317]

I could hear Lindsay laughing maniacally when that realisation popped into her head.

[@jbvader721]

She was sitting on that joke for a while.

[@kieronireikets7884]

It made me cackle very loudly

[@mitchh3092]

@@jcav9410 I plan on doing EXACTLY this next year

[@ethanyoder9953]

"So, Christine dies..." Well she's not named Christine Live-ae is she?

[@Stefengris]

YOOOOOOOU. best comment

[@PS-dm1dq]

Please exit the building now

[@FiteMeMage]

That right there that is a real knee slapped buddy pal friend

[@Rasafrag]

/angry thumb's up Now, don't do that again, or I'll stifle a laugh in your direction EXTRA hard!

[@spacemanspiff01]

HAHAHA amazing

[@multi.instrumentalist]

I love that the story of Love Never dies (from the phantoms pov) is basically the same as the metanarrative of Andrew Lloyd Webber’s relationship with Phantom Of The Opera. He spends ten years thinking about it, tries to do more with it, and like in the show, he should probably have just let it be.

[@DarkwingDash]

No, but it’s honestly shocking how well it works. The Phantom (ALW) can’t give up on Christine (Phantom of the Opera), but the most he can get is Meg (Love Never Dies) Due to Meg’s “Watch me! Watch me! Watch me!” nature, Christine dies and the Phantom is left traumatized and sad.

[@quinkana1]

lol even in phantom of the opera ALW is written to be phantom considering that Christine is written to be played by ALW's wife before they got divorced. it is funny and cruel that ALW kinda becomes the phantom in some sad asf ways.

[@Salocinist]

Ugh Lindsay Ellis did so much for this site. I miss her so much as an essayist, but I hope she's 10000x happier now.

[@stephaniemoura3214]

She has actually produced more essays to Nebula.

[@PhilosophyTube]

"Coming back for the sequel" is an understatement for how thoroughly I am coming back for the sequel

[@chatnoir9038]

Mommy?

[@the_newt_nest]

Lindsey on KJB when

[@legoboy468]

Mommy? I mean mommy? I mean mommy? I mean mommy? I mean mommy? I mean mommy?

[@Cesaryeyo]

I was wondering why that letter sounded like someone mocking JK Rowling and then I was like "Ooooooh!. It's Abigail's 'incestuous conservative sister of an arsonist' voice!"

[@alexshane5713]

You're my fave ❤️✨

[@prankhan3097]

“We can’t… all be… like… Christine.” Masterful negotiation

[@buckleygeneration]

"Give me the gun, Meg" is a hilariously delivered line, no doubt, but it can't hold a candle to the pure poetry of this line.

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

To be fair, he did make Charisma his dump stat.

[@silvercheetah92]

"Marcia Marcia Marcia" "Jan this isn't about you" "It never is!"

[@rahlmaclaren1478]

Bardic Inspiration should definitely use the line, if they haven't already.

[@NINI-xc6my]

other sentences the Phantom could have used as the Masterful Negotiationer that he is "You better shot us or you are going to jail, Meg!" " No Meg, shooting the child wont solve your Problems...aim for the real problem here..." "Meg! Are you only doing this because Christine completly replaced you in my Eyes?" "dont hurt that child! he is the Product of my passionate lovemaking with this woman right here" "Dont do it Peg...Peggy? Maggie? or whatever your name is ...Christine , Love of my life, what is that womans name?"

[@JoeyArmstrong2800]

"Love Never Dies" is the equivalent of Jean Valjean coming back to life with paper mache wings and tap dancing his way off the stage.

[@GrainneMhaol]

Javert didn't really shatter his pelvis falling onto that fountain from a thousand feet high... He's back with a burning desire for revenge/sex with Jean Valjean. I will write this. Pay me.

[@vitoc8454]

He comes back with a tattoo on his arm that says " *24600* " "Les Miserables 2: Edge of Tomorrow"

[@micahlee4625]

22:02 "give me the gun," said the Phantom of the Opera I'm fucking dying 😂😂😂

[@DrakeyC]

"We can't all be like Christine." ...wooooooooow. Are we sure the Phantom wasn't secretly TRYING to get her to shoot herself after all?

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

That also would have been a better ending. Phantom is all "If you must" and then when Meg's brains have painted the balcony he shrugs it off because he fucking loves solving all his problems with death.

[@hanonondricek411]

So...it looks like Meg is the star of the Phantom's super-commercial 'Murican sellout of his music writing talent. But they never communicate, so like...he writes her all these goofy up-tempo numbers instead of the chromatic weirdness of "Don Juan Triumphant" and she's - I guess mad that the phantom doesn't looOOOooove her? Seriously I haven't laughed out loud at a video so much in a long time!

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

It would be more in character at least.

[@FFKonoko]

I almost read it as an attempted "I also cant be like Christine, I understand you, I'm also not as awesome as her". Hence, we. But yknow, still obviously terrible approach

[@KristenK78]

@@FFKonoko me too-which is why it’s exactly the WRONG thing to say, because it still involves Christine.

[@DM-it1qf]

“So this show ends with the Phantom of the Opera negotiating a hostage crisis” is an iconic quote.

[@merrittanimation7721]

Imagine if things like this happened with other famous musical characters. “Sweeney Todd busts a food tampering scheme”.

[@TheSecondVersion]

"Give me the gun Meg" deserves to be a running gag

[@ashikjaman1940]

@@merrittanimation7721 All of the Cats defuse a bomb

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

@@merrittanimation7721 Jean Valjean stops a dude from commiting tax evasion

[@Jabadamazo]

Hey Lindsay, I know you're retired from KZbin but I wanted to say that I read Axiom's End recently and I was blown away. It felt so much like old-school sci-fi that's about culture and humanity and understanding rather than pew pew spaceships. I will definitely be reading your next book. As an aspiring writer myself, this is super encouraging :).

[@regisatlas]

so I went to see the original POTO yesterday for the 2nd time (thanks for that Lindsay) and you know what's not helpful? remembering Lindsay saying ''he hits it and quits it like 20 times'' and giggling like hell during melodramatic scenes

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Alright people, assume the positions: She’s talking about Phantom again.

[@guncannon109]

Alright this is happening! Its happening! Everybody stay calm!

[@ecoRfan]

I live in New Jersey. Now with Broadway shows back, the advertisements are everywhere. Especially Phantom.

[@himwiththehair8118]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2fKo4l4Zt2HZ6s

[@m.r.2066]

See how she glitters!

[@guncannon109]

@@m.r.2066 I'm losing to a BIRD!

[@michaelchesnut865]

We are all now burdened with knowledge. I didn't want to know this exists. I love the original Phantom of the Opera, and Raul and Christine singing "All I Ask Of You" for me feels like an allegory for depression, and having people there during your darkest moments. And now I have to live with the knowledge that Raul is a drunk, a gambler, and a horrible father. Yippee.

[@richardharoldmeddows728]

Lord Andy didn’t want to introduce new characters apart from Gustave. But he changed all the characters enough so that it felt like brand new characters

[@TheoMcAllister]

I guess Raoul knows he's in Love Never Dies and that's why he drinks some more.

[@selectedshipper8282]

I mean you can’t blame him. I’d drink to if I was in love never dies

[@vsGoliath96]

"My favorite sequel is a fanfiction that was published by a mysterious author like ten years ago." Oh, so the fanfic is TEEEEN YEEEEEAAARS OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD!

[@ilovetolovemylove]

can't believe Lindsay didn't drop the name of the fic 😤

[@bluestone_alley1617]

@@ilovetolovemylove a comment by _combustible-lemons_ actually mentions it. It’s entitled “a stroll on sunday” that’s published on ao3! (where they found it at least)

[@Laublack]

@@bluestone_alley1617 now I'm hoping Angelina and Lindsay drop more fic recommendations because Stroll On A Sunday was everything 😭

[@edenontheorbit9778]

AKSKDFKFKSKSKDDKS

[@nevelyn3960]

The Punnit square joke at 14:30 legitimately drove me to set up an entire system for how musicals could really exist in an alternate reality when I first watched this video a year ago. Certain people having the genetics to experience life through that heightened reality / alternate dimension and in doing so influence others around them, etc. It was quite complex and I still haven't written anything using the idea but it's very concrete. Thanks Lindsay.

[@kingrabies4468]

holy damn this video has me in stitches. It started with "and then Erik busts in like the Koolaid man" and just conitnued soaring from there, definitely peaks at 14:44, 26:33, and 29:16

[@oddbobproductions781]

Christine sighed, her luminous orbs turning toward the moon. “Erik would never treat me this way”

[@Sableagle]

Luminous orbs that turn to look at things? What is she, a frickin' BEHOLDER?

[@didiercollard]

I'd like to imagine that her breasts turned to face the moon, but she didn't. They just snake right out of her chest.

[@elvellarambles9151]

@@didiercollard snek boob

[@ToaArcan]

Dark Balls of Sight

[@maristiller4033]

"Be quiet I'm trying to get drunk and spend money."

[@marianahernandez4679]

Being that Erick wrote trash songs, I guess it makes sense he’s impressed by a ten year old playing chopsticks

[@shambles.8989]

🤣🤣🤣

[@mollymcdade4031]

“He plays just like me-“

[@Tareltonlives]

"And he's a hack, just like me!"

[@thefonzkiss]

He doesn’t play friggin chopsticks it’s a joke for the review.

[@lordyeetus6317]

This is the thing that gets me more than anything - Love Never Dies is simply not a great song. It just isn't as good as anything in the original musical. And all of Meg's songs are just fucking annoying.

[@zfighter3]

I really miss this channel. I still don't really understand why she was canceled, but the videos were always witty and intelligent. Hope she's doing well.

[@LindsayEllisVids]

Lindsay is now posting all her new videos on Nebula. You can watch everything here: nebula.tv/lindsayellis --Lindsay's assistant

[@MononokeLynn]

We miss you Lindsay. Hope you’re doing good. Followed your career before The Dark Nella Saga debuted. Thanks for being a fellow LotR Expanded Edition Forever buddy as I chugged through college, trying to obtain a film studies minor. You deserved so much better.

[@WinningSidekick]

"...So he spends most of the novel being confused in French." What a marvellous sentence

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

[French noises intensify]

[@leedriver7029]

This musical is more than… TENNNNNNNNN YEARSSSSSSSS OLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

[@KyraHogue]

Lol. That's so bad, and yet still so good of a joke. XD

[@OceanbornAngel]

Oh my God....such unnecessary dramatic notes for a few silly words.

[@kat_the_ot]

I cackled at this.

[@BrotherMag]

Omg 😆

[@dreamingofastranger]

I was hoping someone would make this joke. You have not dissapointed!

[@stephaniemassine]

As someone who simultaneously loves this show and loves to make fun of it, this video slaps. Thank you, Lindsay, for this gift to the phandom.

[@SitaraAleu]

I actually really like “The Beauty Underneath”. The only thing that stops me adding it to my music collection are two points: one, the context is super squicky and two, having to explain who and what that other voice is if someone ever asks. I think it would be fine if it were just an intense sexy slab of 80’s butt rock if it were sung to someone of legal age

[@Caldella]

This is my take of it, too. It's catchy, and it's well sung, but the context of the actual scene is horrendous.

[@alissapenridge7516]

It’s a really fun, campy seduction song. If I rewrote LND, I’d definitely keep it and change the context. Maybe I’d have Phantom sing it to Raoul in an extremely ill-advised but ultimately somewhat successful attempt to weasel his way back into Christine’s life by seducing her husband.

[@dogwithgun6724]

@@alissapenridge7516that’s such an insane but intriguing idea that I feel like I need now

[@tesstucker3311]

Just tell anyone who hears it that it’s about a father introducing his son to heavy metal music for the first time.

[@SitaraAleu]

@@tesstucker3311 🤣🤣🤣 Oh my god and it’s not wrong either!! 🤣

[@laurena9563]

"Chose beauty and youth- over genius and art." Like the Phantom wasn't a raging murderer and Christine was just some flighty airhead who was "taken" with a good looking dude. YOU HUNG A MAN FROM THE RAFTERS PHANTOM-

[@doll_dress_swap1269]

Ugg wamman. Always choosing some jerk Chad like Roul who’s empathetic and financially stable and tries to save you from your stalker and who you have fond childhood memories with over the nice guys like serial murder phantom. So shallow.

[@HobGungan]

@@doll_dress_swap1269 TRUUU

[@laurena9563]

@@doll_dress_swap1269 I mean, that's why he had to develop a raging alcohol/gambling addiction; because all good-looking, socially outgoing, and emotionally stable men are just truly Chads in disguise and not a nIcE guY like Andrew Lloyd Web- IMEAN- THE PHANTOM-

[@InvaderTak176]

@@laurena9563 ya...

[@morganalabeille5004]

And he was the one who left her. Literally in the same musical he explicitly states that she came and found him and he ran away while she was asleep.

[@ToddintheShadows]

I'm not like a humongous fan of Phantom of the Opera, but I feel like there's a reason he's Phantom of the Opera and not Phantom of the Carny Freakshow. Like, oh no, this horrifying circus sideshow also has a phantom... I thought it was just a terrible geek parade

[@ManOutofTime913]

Yeah, it's a bit of a step down from haunting the Paris Opera house. Plus, he doesn't even seem to try to hide himself at all in this show. He's not mysterious or magical as a gothic, villainous figure typically is, he's just... there.

[@halo2d]

Somewhere in there is a cool idea about how the people who were deemed "other" by society were super talented and that together they could create something truly beautiful for all. But we didn't get that at all.

[@ManOutofTime913]

@@halo2d Isn't that basically The Greatest Showman?

[@starlabradshaw2969]

Didn't KISS make that movie? Lololol

[@ManOutofTime913]

@@starlabradshaw2969 Nah, it was Brian De Palma lol

[@weaselchan8309]

Not me in 2023, rewatching all of her vids cuz I miss her T^T Lindsay, I hope whatever platform you are on now, youre happy and making bank

[@KattReen]

She uploads to nebula sometimes, and to her patreon. She has a good income.

[@chillpenguin3481]

been rewatching Lindsay’s vids lately and I have to say, I’m gonna miss her though provoking video essays and witty sense of humor. I hope she’s doing better.

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

I love the editor's note: "I saw it while six months pregnant with my daughter. We are no longer on speaking terms." I wheezed

[@turkicnomad5632]

I like to think her (what I imagine to be) toddler, even in the womb, had the wisdom and intuition to know that what she had experienced was like the opposite of playing Mozart for a fetus.

[@JackgarPrime]

Should've been "pregnant with my damn baby."

[@CrazyDyslexicNerd]

The notes throughout were excellent but this one stood out

[@BrotherMag]

Lol tragic

[@dracu9833]

@@slimerancherjulie5895 my dumbass thought lindsay was pregnant

[@sayven]

If Cursed Child is a fanfiction, then Love Never Dies is a wattpad fanfiction

[@turkicnomad5632]

Christ, that’s high praise

[@soleil1953]

Honestly I would switch the two. yes, I dislike cursed child that much 😂

[@Lucifersfursona]

They’re from the same nightmare

[@anarchomando7707]

@@soleil1953 please vent about it I want to know why

[@Tustin2121]

Joseph Misinec - Time travel plot solely used to shamelessly wallow in the original story for the length of two stage shows, instead of (as mentioned repeatedly in this video) using the established world as a spring board for new adventures with new characters. (Also, Albus and Scorpius as a couple had ALL the buildup and then was paid off with a last minute “no homo” because we can’t have gays now.)

[@paulmaloney4387]

I would pay good money to have Lindsay produce an essay on Rings of Power

[@SirAsdf]

For anyone wondering about where Lindsay's been, she's basically switched entirely to Nebula for her new videos.

[@pavvlichenko2943]

Is Nebula worth the subscription if you are a huge Lindsay fan?

[@csousher]

A couple of notes: 1. I love how Lindsay has been dunking on “beneath a moonless sky” for over a decade 2. That song with the phantom and the 10 year old is the most disturbing thing I have seen in a long time 3. “GIVE ME THE GUN MEG”

[@TheSpearkan]

4: Raoul got his dick shot off by performing a heroic deed in Paris.

[@overlydramaticpanda]

Re: your second point, the version on the OLCR is arguably even worse. The kid honestly gets *far* too into saying "yes".

[@Baiswith]

@@overlydramaticpanda I am so glad I wasn't the only one to notice this; I was listening rather than watching during that section, and it's goddamn *disturbing*

[@henninggirl261]

@@TheSpearkan “thinking quickly, he whipped out his dick and successfully stopped the stray bullet from hitting any Parisian orphans…but at great personal cost.” 🤣

[@MM-jf1me]

@@overlydramaticpanda Agreed! The first time I listened to this song I was so appalled--I wasn't impressed with the show up to that point, but that song tipped this musical from "disappointing" to "wtf." Ofc, I then had to share this one song with my friends who enjoy musicals so I could cackle watching the changing expressions on their faces as they listened to it.

[@MichaelBurmy]

The show's reputation got it so many nicknames...my favorite is "Paint Never Dries."

[@Mjsmecha]

Oh my god, you made my morning. Thank you. XD

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

I'd totally watch paint never dries

[@teasharp]

"give me the gun said the phantom of the opera" best line

[@christyeck8050]

I laughed out loud when I saw the credits with Cat's in the Cradle playing over the top of a slideshow of the Phantom and Gustav. Well done.

[@mrsundaymovies]

As someone who saw the Melbourne production in 2011 I can confirm this was probably the story

[@creedbratton4064]

hey seggsy(•:

[@creedbratton4064]

do a caravan of garbage for the Lego Skywalker saga playing The Complete Saga. I know that's unrelated but I wanna see u play it👉🏻👈🏻 or better yet do a caravan of garbage of each lego star wars game, I miss Caravan of Garbage video games

[@Mr.NiceUK]

Mr Sunday and Lindsay Ellis crossover? I must be dreaming! (to be fair it's 5am here so anything is possible...)

[@SharpDesign]

I love when people I'm a fan of comment on each other.

[@_its_lunar_]

I love you and everything you do James but you’re not verified so I do not trust anything you’re saying

[@KristenK78]

And are we also going to ignore the “ALW is bad at maths”, because if this is ten years later, Gustav should be…nine.

[@ellew999]

that's what i was thinking! does this all take place like a week before his birthday??

[@DillonExner]

Not to mention the first play being set in, like, the 1880s, and this one in the 1920s.

[@gandalfbutfancier5216]

@@DillonExner They thought "FORTY YEARS OOOLLDDDD" didn't sound good so they changed it to ten

[@santheshark-6139]

@@DillonExner Love Never Dies takes place in 1907, but yeah, weird. 👍

[@FreyaEinde]

@@santheshark-6139 Yeah, that confusion is from the style of the musical acts being a bit more flapperesque than the early Ziegfeld follies style.

[@daftward9292]

Remember you're no Phantom, Lindsay. You are not condemned to stay in darkness forever. The world may be cruel and unforgiving, but they seek only to have a control over most things they feel powerless for. But that is their fault, not yours. Continue to exist, to write, to create. Prove to them you can survive and not sink to their desires nor to their level. These people will fade away in time, they always do.

[@Katiewithdaffodils]

My love for Lindsay Ellis' beautiful video essays... never dies. 💛

[@HisRedCoat]

The sequel is like watching your friend get back with their toxic ex, but we're supposed to be happy for them. In reality you're like "yeah I know the d is good but he's an asshole remember? And he's totally love bombing you right now"

[@melissam597]

I love this analogy 😂

[@Nadia1989]

Or the last two seasons of Sherlock. I like to pretend they don't exist.

[@neuralmute]

@@Nadia1989 There were more than two seasons of Sherlock? Not in my universe there weren't!

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

@@neuralmute I'd prefer we just get rid of everything but the unaired pilot episode.

[@neuralmute]

@@SylentVoidkeeper Great idea, but I have to admit to loving Andrew Scott as Jim. He was just way too much fun. None of his plot might have fully made sense, but his acting was absolutely worth it.

[@combeferret]

When it was on in London, everyone (critics, fans, and industry professionals alike) called it Paint Never Dries.

[@oldvlognewtricks]

Specifically the West End Whingers, but it certainly caught the imagination.

[@jakek1735]

That's gold Jerry

[@olivercharles2120]

Love Never Dies truly is garbage, but it did three great things for which we all should be grateful for: 1. Ramin Karimloo 2. Sierra Boggess 3. Hadley Fraser They all are amazing and were brought back for The Phantom 25th Anniversary!

[@info_dash313]

God dammit Lindsay, you were by far my favourite video analyst and seeing your last video published 2 years ago really breaks my heart (But I understand why you had to leave). I truly hope that whetever you're doing now you have some modicum of peace. You're brilliant and your videos will forever remain timeless. Much love.

[@owenleal]

Lindsay Ellis continues to upload on Nebula.

[@LindsayEllisVids]

You can watch all of Lindsay's new videos from the past 2 years here: nebula.tv/lindsayellis --Lindsay's assistant

[@rickrose5632]

Lindsey has an assistant running her youtube now?

[@zigzagzoom369]

One of the best sequels of all time, 'Shrek 2', really illustrates your point about good sequels not disregarding where the previous entry left off. An early scene is Shrek & Fiona enjoying their honeymoon, running from angry mobs with pitchforks in soft focus. Being reviled for being ogres isn't a source of shame or resentment; because they have each other it doesn't even dampen their mood. This scene fundamentally couldn't happen if the sequel disregarded how their character arcs developed.

[@midlight9758]

Shrek 2 truly was a great sequel.

[@vsGoliath96]

Unironically, Shrek 2 is such a good sequel that it's just as good, if not better, than the original.

[@Nightman221k]

Imagine if Shrek 2 ignored the character development and had everyone regress and become worse like LND did. (That was kinda what Shrek 3 did with them rejecting being good leaders of a kingdom despite Fiona and Shrek making amazing leaders, but we pretend Shrek 3 didn't happen and Shrek 4 is the 3rd one.)

[@hotcheetos304]

👏👏👏

[@afoolishfopdoodle3284]

Sounds like Schaffrillas Productions… and it’s great

[@kateb6699]

I'm obsessed with the kid spending a whole song enthusiastically agreeing to see the "beauty underneath" and then running away screaming the second he sees a glimpse of the phantom's face

[@coffeeavenger]

The song would be kind of fun if he wasn’t singing TO A TEN YEAR OLD “You can TAKE it!”

[@Tareltonlives]

@@coffeeavenger "YES!"

[@justalostlocal]

@@coffeeavenger TEN YEARS OOOOooLLLLLDDdddd

[@ouaispasmal]

LOOLL

[@LittleMissLion]

After seeing many legitimately creepy and weird things...it's the face that's once again apparently a step too far.

[@en5722]

“They go on. They leave Omelas, they walk ahead into the darkness, and they do not come back. The place they go towards is a place even less imaginable to most of us than the city of happiness. I can not describe it at all. It is possible that it does not exist. But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.” - Ursula K. Le Guin, The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas ...Hope you’re doing well, Lindsay. I know you’ll probably never see this, but my heart is out to you.

[@kamicloudss]

For me, Lindsay represents the shift from angry man yells at video game/movie to longform thoughtful content with actual merit. She changed the game and it’s a shame we didn’t give her her flowers while she was here. I’m gonna miss this content

[@stephaniemoura3214]

She's still making essays, but this time is just for Nebula. So if you have the possibility of paying for it, check them out.

[@bonniescott2733]

ALW putting Christine and the Phantom together says so much about his post-divorce life.

[@willinwoods]

Makes me wonder how much of LND maps one to one with ALWs inner and outer life. Which, or rather how many, of the characters are actually representations of aspects of ALWs psyche?

[@Rebecca-oh5yh]

And then Christine gets shot...

[@huscarl149]

"Love never dies" sounds more like a James Bond movie then a sequel to phantom of the opera.

[@porsche911sbs]

Probably because the very similar _Tomorrow Never Dies_ was the name of a Bond movie. "Love" is also part of the title of _From Russia With Love_ and _The Spy Who Loved Me._

[@tinstargames]

Honestly I saw every ad for love never dies all over Australia and only now figured out it was a sequel to phantom

[@caffeinatedkatie4696]

THANK YOU!,

[@KryssLaBryn]

Originally it was going to be called "Phantom: Once Upon Another Time", which made it sound like a Disney movie. >

[@caffeinatedkatie4696]

@@KryssLaBryn ugh seriously? Just call it Phantom of the Opera 2: Electric Boogaloo

[@TheOobo]

Lindsay, your mark on KZbin's analysis landscape and on the way millions of people interact with media can't be understated. Thank you.

[@johnnygymrat4335]

it's so sad a great content creator was chased off the internet by people who could have spent their time trying to cancel actual racists. there isn't any shortage of people who actually deserve criticism

[@bladerunner12]

"Cosmo's top 10 positions to try beneath a moonless sky" is getting underappreciated in this comment section

[@EvanCWaters]

Had to pause the video to read all the captions.

[@GuiSmith]

That visual _sent me_ to the moon and back

[@skepticmoderate5790]

Time stamp?

[@4amlibra]

@@skepticmoderate5790 12:47 It’s great

[@voidify3]

Every part of that frame is gold lmaooo

[@Mel-jr5cz]

Raoul being an inexplicitly terrible person despite being the opposite in the original musical gives me big "just found out my high school sweetheart got married so I'm going to write a musical where her new husband is terrible and she comes back to me" vibes. Move on Richard. Edit: Just remembered that the first play starts with Roul and Christine old and married and financially stable bidding for the big chandelier at an auction. Richard. She's happy. Get a hobby.

[@Anna-ks3ct]

how did I never consider the opening scene of the first show you're so right 💀

[@ashikjaman1940]

This means she came back to life She is officially Jesus

[@brkh96]

Isn't it just old Raoul?

[@oilcrab]

So glad someone commented this lol raoul becoming a terrible person doesnt add up to me

[@razmiddle9410]

It's not too hard to draw the line between Sarah Brightman leaving ALW and the Phantom being presumably perceived as romantic by ALW in Love Never Dies...

[@joeytansey8466]

I miss Lindsay :( So few people share my love for the perfect disaster that is Love Never Dies

[@abigail4569]

19:24 "Gustav's like 'Mom I love you' as she looks into the middle distance longing for death" I'M CRYING LMAO

[@werwolfnate]

Having the Phantom become the successful leader of a Coney Island freak show could have worked as its own thing, without reintroducing Christine and Raoul. A story about a fleeing Phantom having to start from scratch and now with a flicker of empathy building a family of choice of people like himself could have been a compelling way to go.

[@phoenixfreefall]

Or becoming obsessed with a new ingenue (a la the tv show You) and his conflict becomes the tragic realization that he hasn't really learned anything about love and destroys everything he touches... And he's tempted to go back to his dark, murderous ways since he can't be truly happy... But in the end sacrifices himself instead. This is just off the cuff, but I think this progression works for the character.

[@adyny8598]

@@phoenixfreefall the two of you just wrote a more compelling story than ALW has ever done in his life... nice

[@Nadia1989]

Just the idea of found family would've been better than LND

[@Kahtisemo]

As far as character growth from the first one goes, expand more on Phantom and the Girys relationship. Madame Giry also came off as having something with him (explored in the movie a bit. Is it love? A motherly or big sister figure trying to protect him? Were they a thing before he became obsessed with Christine? Did she find his possessiveness frightening and escape to find a husband but could never escape him unlike Christine?) and Meg was shown to never be really afraid of him just wary and curious. Terrified at the attacks but also tempted by the darkness to ask Christine about her teacher and trying to follow into the underground. Meg is the star of Phantasma, she's the one writing the music and trying to showcase she's been learning some tricks but she'll never be a natural. Maybe he really is the distant father figure she so desperately wants to please but he's never even watching. They'd have some interaction in this version though or maybe that's the point why they never interact directly just keeping touch through Giry. She'd probably have more interactions with the other circus people though. Then maybe towards the end of the first half, we get news about Christine coming. Maybe Raoul is with her, maybe the reason why he's so sad at the beginning of PotO is because he lost her years ago and that's why he wanted the music box so bad to lay at the gravesite because it brought back memories of what brought them together however briefly. Either way she still has Gustav and maybe she's the one trying to rekindle things with Mr. Y because she feels she made the wrong choice with Raoul (either she's broke since she left him or he's kept her from the stage and now she feels she's suffocating as a trophy wife or that the love just didn't last once things were peaceful) and this becomes a dilemma for Phantom since on the one hand he's got his muse and the girl of his dreams back in his life, on the other he's dine so much to move on with his life and has to remember she's the one who left him. Is it out of nostalgia? Is it because he's successful? Is it because of their shared love for music and not actual intimacy? He knows he could get hurt again. I suppose then is the tension of either miscommunication or jealousy ringing it's ugly head or something where it's Erik being the one torn between what he had versus what he has and then further tensions between the girls about Christine's motives for showing up like this and trying to take away everything they've worked for (but it makes more sense if we expanded more in the first half). Maybe in the end Erik realizes how much Meg means to him as the girl he helped raise over the son he never knew. Maybe the fears of jealousy and him leaving them for Christine are put to rest with her and Gustav joining the Phantasma family. Maybe things still play out like they did with Christine's accidental death symbolically officially allowing Erik to move on from the past. Hell maybe he could be the big man and even tell Christine no so they can both learn to move on. What happened all those years ago was lightning in a bottle but she'll sing for him one last time before going. Just something to retain his arc from the first show. And I think making it his decision while showing how he's grown more self confident and toned down from his murderous ways through this found family would have made him more sympathetic if we're supposed to be rooting for him.

[@ManOutofTime913]

I mean, if the story proceeds that Christine's compassion inspired him to use the rest of his life to better the lives of others who are unfortunately maligned by society, it would be a compelling premise, but it still needs a central conflict that ties into that so it isn't ancillary like it is in LND.