LOW update

Still trucking along....lots of updated components...finally ready to play test.

[@nightbirdgames]

So far, I think this is my favorite opening to a low update. Cool just to see the prototyping in progress. Everything is looking real good. The discovery deck could possibly be used to create secret passages.

[@bluebotic2327]

That's a great idea. I did consider adding icons to some Discovery Cards. And one of those icons could mean: you may search for a secret passage here. I like the idea of secret passages being counters that can potentially provide passage from any walkable space, through a solid wall space, to another walkable space (even between map tiles). That would make secret passages way more valuable. But also rare, constrained by the number of counters. Man, I really underestimated the cognitive load of all the travel and made zero progress with Ferryman. But now that I'm back and my update is posted and we're entering a holiday zone I will finally play it.

[@nightbirdgames]

@@bluebotic2327 Yeah that sounds like a great idea with the icons. No problem! I actually been making some quality of life changes. Some reformating, which probably wasn't a problem before but the more you look at something the more you think maybe it sucks lol. Adding some more options to some tables and streamlining. The only big change is how missions are handled (no more rolling for where they are located, now there are mission sites all over the map you can go towards to complete missions). I added a little star icon to represent these. Also, roaming threats are tracked with a simple token, cube, etc now instead of dice flipping each turn. I missed my Kickstarter date because of a problem with the lighting in my playthrough video. Looked great on camera but the actual video is blown out. Looks like it's under questioning for murder. Probably leaning towards mid August or early September now. The Kickstarter page is looking fantastic though, short and sweet and grimy. Perhaps it was a good thing since I did think of the streamlined mechanics. Also Microsoft updated and messed up some formating in publisher so I had to go through and fix that. I'll send you the updated version when it's ready, so if you want to hold off to play with the mission and roaming threats updates that'll be totally fine.

[@bluebotic2327]

@@nightbirdgames I would love to play the updated version! Definitely send me a link at your convenience. The changes you describe sound really good. I do plan to shoot a playthrough once I get into it. I find that natural daylight is the best for shooting board games on tables. I prefer to set up my table or use one that is near a window and preferably that window is perpendicular to the camera so the lighting is coming from the 'side'. If the camera is facing the window, you will get glare or washed out color. And the soft shadows that a side facing window casts help convey dimensionality of the game components. I like to put a piece of chipboard down on the playing surface for two reasons: it has a non-glossy & diffuse surface, and it's a mid-tone neutral color which helps keep your game component colors from getting 'color corrected' by the camera. It just seems to produce the best colors and contrast. I use zero lights when filming most of my stuff. You can see the results of this method in some of my old Ares Magazine videos, like Citadel of Blood how this all comes together. That's about when I figure this stuff out. The black cutting mat that I use in some of my videos produces worse color and worse contrast. And when fail to put down a diffuse mid-tone substate, my tables are too glossy and that also ruins the color and contrast. I only do right about half the time.

[@KyawThurein]

It's getting better and better.

[@bluebotic2327]

Thanks!

[@lucasg9516]

Great opening! I loved seeing the component creation process. Can't wait to see how playtesting goes! 🎲⚔️

[@bluebotic2327]

I love crafting stuff. It's very meditative for me. I used to post a lot more videos that demonstrated process.

[@janzurek3384]

That was a great ASMR opening 😊 I'm looking forward to see your playtest video... By the way, I am in Ireland right now. 🇮🇪

[@bluebotic2327]

Loved Ireland! Brought back Covid. But it was worth it. Playtesting has revealed some minor issues with discovery cards that I'm fixing now. Nothing major. I think the new system is going to be cool.

[@camboyrdee]

So hype for play testing. Went back and played the whole playlist randomly the other day, then saw you uploaded! Game is looking amazing as always, brother!

[@bluebotic2327]

@@camboyrdee Thanks a lot!

[@kosterix123]

Monster backs can hold information on random secret passages. The more you defeat the more likely you find a secret passage along the path you discovered so far. Characters: usually female/male versions. Rare items: items should be tiered, and 2 copies of common vs 1 copy of rare. Doesn’t cost you more design to add copies. As long as you keep counter pairs (matching position with detail) distinct in form and color it should be fine. Lands of Galzyr does that well.

[@bluebotic2327]

yeah, I have considered male/female hero card sides. But I'd need more counters and standees to represent these opposite gendered heroes.

[@Genghis-Pawn]

Always a treat. Keep at it. Can't wait.

[@bluebotic2327]

Thank you!

[@jonanjello]

Love the look of those cards, BB. Nice progress

[@bluebotic2327]

Hey thanks. They're coming along. I'll need to do one more art/design cleanup & copy edit on all of them. Right now, many of the cards are still using art from the counters which is too iconic and low res for cards. But the cards that I've upscaled and detailed in Photoshop look decent so I've got a process figured out. it's just gonna take some time.

[@Flackon]

Haven't checked up on the progress in a while. But it looks good! Nice work

[@bluebotic2327]

Thanks!

[@johnmiddleton4291]

Looking good. I wondered how this project had been coming along and it looks like I actually missed a few updates. That's youtube trying to get me to watch random stuff rather than subs. That looks like a lot of cards.

[@bluebotic2327]

Thanks John! Yeah, I think it'll be about 100 mini cards. Not horrible. And my home built card stock id slightly thicker than the actual card stock, so this stack looks bigger than it is... I hear you on youtube's 'algorithm'. I've just been trying to watch less and less youtube. I've even scaled back on channels that I love and even channels back on Patreon. Drowning in content. I'm still very addicted to YT...

[@MrMaltavius]

Counters for different status effects could be done on the player-card track. Also, I'd recommend cutting 3 out of 4 corners on markers with number and characters on so that you can easily orient them the same way.

[@bluebotic2327]

Good ideas. Status counters for all conditions will increase the counter count quite a bit so I may have to just use min cards.I think the printer I'm using for the final product does rounded corners on everything. I thought of using a black stripe at the base edge of numbers and letters too for easy orientation.

[@TheDankFarmer]

Solid video - that cutting was super satisfying, haven't heard of this game till just now - subbed for sure it looks great

[@bluebotic2327]

Hey thanks. Yeah, crafting paper and chipboard stuff is oddly satisfying for me. It's very meditative. I've been doing it since I was in elementary school so I think it tickles some very deep neural pathways in my brain.

[@SandorHQ]

Maybe the hero card setup instructions would work better on a separate sheet, so the player could reference the sheet while putting stuff on their hero cards? I favor having either splash art or alternative versions on card backs. During gameplay I think it's better not have to flip cards to look up something. Flipping works perfectly with the monster counters, since the flipping represents state change, so it actually has a game function. Absolutely love your secret passage counter idea! As for numeric counters, if the numbers are low, perhaps small beads or cubes could be used alternatively, allowing more flexibility and reuse (e.g. when you need four 4 counters, but you only have three). And I'm staying *very* tuned to see the first playtests! :)

[@bluebotic2327]

Tiny cubes for numeric counters is not a bad idea. I can see a case for going that way. if there were several 'shapes' they could even be used as UID pairs. Instead of two 'A" counters, you'd have 2 'Cylinders'. Sounds expensive. But that would also get the game down to 4 slugs of counters from 10. I'll look into it as a thought experiment. In most cases, the numeric counting will be low: 1-5-ish.... I thought about that issue with Hero Setup rules on card backs. But, for the most part, the rules will be instructing the player to grab a bunch of minicards: spells, potions, ingredients, equipment, and powers/skills. The very last instruction could be: now turn this card over and place the 3 vital stat counters on their starting positions of the stat tracker. And these values are listed on the side of the card containing the stat tracker.

[@jurgenvalksvalkie7170]

Very nice!!

[@bluebotic2327]

thanks!

[@kkantele]

Looking good!

[@kkantele]

I really like the map cards back!!!

[@bluebotic2327]

@@kkantele thank you!!

[@lostSUND4Y]

The artwork for this game is out of this world. Its dark and brooding but simple. I guess a bit like Darkest Dungeon. Those counters are probably the best looking counters i've seen, ever. And i play alot of wargames. This game, in my opinion, does not need minis or even standees. Hell, if there was a bunch of countersheets with just a large amount of random fantasy monsters/heroes/civilians i'd be all over that. I'd use them in all my fantasy boardgames and RPGs.

[@bluebotic2327]

@@lostSUND4Y hey thanks I really appreciate the kind words. I have a philanthropic fantasy of someday producing a library of copyright-free fantasy art and making it available to all for free. A sort of gift to the fantasy tabletop gaming community. Maybe after this game ships I can think more on that. I need a reason to draw more.

[@ike_d5402]

Just so everyone knows - this is exactly how every single copy of the game will be manufactured.

[@bluebotic2327]

Ha! Very true...for the Print and Play version....

[@COOPFORTWO]

Looking great.

[@bluebotic2327]

Thanks!

[@chronixchaos7081]

Instead of using numbered chits as timers, how about using dice, where the player sets a die on the object/character/condition with the starting time number face up representing the number of turns the condition lasts. At the end/beginning of each turn the die is turned to show the time reducing. When the die reaches zero it is removed and the condition is therefore removed.

[@bluebotic2327]

Yeah someone else suggested that too. Good idea. I could just include 4 to 6 red dice etc for tracking stuff...

[@KostikSaint]

Can't wait to play this!

[@bluebotic2327]

Me too!

[@ConnivingGooses]

The standees look awesome and it would be great if they came in the core set but it would be a bit pricier.

[@bluebotic2327]

Thanks. Yeah, I love that they exist. They are more fun for me than counters. I need to crunch the productions cost for the various options.

[@ConnivingGooses]

@@bluebotic2327 Yeah! Definetly figure that stuff out but I think they could also be integrated into the game in an easier, more cost effective way. Like, maybe since you already have cutouts organize them in a different way to fit standees too?

[@Luchiop]

Monster card back could have optional random modifier for the current battle?

[@bluebotic2327]

Hey Luchiop! Yeah, I've considered variants and/or modifiers.

[@allluckyseven]

Extended rules for the monster backs sounds great for us players because it's "more game!" But it will take more dev time too, so... This doesn't have much to do with your game in its current state (I'm sort of just writing it down here), but I've somehow misinterpreted "condition" cards when you mentioned them, I was thinking instead of "conditionals"... And now I'm thinking if those kinds of things could be added to cards, like, different options for quests or some other thing, that would alter the game. If X happens, then use this procedure, if not, then use this other procedure. Standees as add-on would be the right the way to go, I think, if every component would fit into the base box, them included.

[@bluebotic2327]

I love the idea of writing quests that have conditionals. Quest 1 sort of has one conditional at the end. But I could see really leaning into that for some more advanced quests. Yeah, advanced monster rules = more work. And I am really starting to budget dev time so that I can finish this game in this lifetime. Anything but generic monster cards backs is going to eat up lots of time. Even splash art. 14 monster types. Let's say 4 hours per illo. It's a lot....

[@allluckyseven]

@@bluebotic2327 Then again... That sort of thing is really fun to do (IMHO!) Both creating new rules/options and creating art. The painful part is implementation. Putting that stuff you've dreamt of into the cards, having to cut stuff out because it doesn't fit, etc. And, well, sure, balancing. If that's desirable. Creating new rules would be like making 50% - 75% more monsters... But coming up with options like alts for monsters where they get different attacks with wider effects once a certain condition is met (think of a "bloodied" monster that gets more aggressive, those options would be on "side B" of the card)... that's the cool part of making games.

[@bluebotic2327]

@@allluckyseven 100% this is where game dev should really start to get fun. I need to lean into these things that could make the game better. Maybe way better. By tweaking existing assets and available real estate.

[@litendavid]

@@bluebotic2327 As a (very fair!) compromise, couldn't you use the same art as on the front but turned 90 degrees (so portrait orientation)?

[@bluebotic2327]

@@litendavid I'm not sure it'd hold up at the bigger scale. I'd need to do illustrations at a higher res with mroe detail. Which would probably be the most fun part of this entire game dev process. But also time intensive. I have considered releasing an RPG or roll and write version of this game, in which case I'd need better art for all the monsters anyways.

[@SipsVenRant]

Love it! Thoughts of counters vs dice?

[@bluebotic2327]

Weird, just saw this. Yeah, good point. Dice could be easier, cheaper, and less noisy for tracking numeric things. I'm not crazy about tracking numeric values using dice. Rotating the dice, trying to find the right pip etc. But, it really is cleaner. I'll play test some using dice. Replacing the red numeric counters with a couple of red d6 dice could be an improvement....

[@brodieswift3061]

This is looking great, slow and steady! Do you print these play test assets yourself? They come out so good, what printer do you use?

[@bluebotic2327]

@@brodieswift3061 it’s an Epson 7720 or something. Inkjet. I’ve had it for a while. It’s an affordable workhorse. I rear feed strathmore Bristol board for card printing. One sheet at a time. The counters are printed on my HP laserjet printer. And spray mounted onto 0.040 chip board. You can also just go to kinkos etc.

[@leonardpimentel5865]

Awesome. Now do magic realm. 😊

[@bluebotic2327]

Magic Realm does Magic Realm better than I can!

[@thehyena9009]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is this a precursor to a kickstarter or is this just a fun little passion project?

[@johnmiddleton4291]

It will sold on Game Crafter when finished.

[@bluebotic2327]

John's right. Version 1.0 of the game will be available in two formats: Print on Demand at TheGameCrafter.com, and Print & Play via a downloadable PDF. It is just a fun little passion project. But I want to make it available to anyone that wants to play it. If I'd kickstarted this project, by now I'd have a mob of angry backers demanding results and/or refunds due to how long this game development has taken me. I see it all the time. Entire channels devoted to shaming crowdfund game devs. Maye v2.0 could be crowdfunded since it'd just be minor tweaks and bug fixes. but even then, I'm just not sure it's the right platform for me.

[@hubyxreds]

You know you can take someone seriously when you see them using an Olfa knife :P It's great that the project is still alive, it seems that it has been a long road. I think the card upgrade was a great idea. I'm a little lost on how the game works currently, are you planning on publishing any updates to the rulebook?

[@bluebotic2327]

The rulebook and the quest book will have to be completely re-written. I hope to start doing that after this round of play testing. I think in general, the core rules and the quest rules will be shorter and more concise since both are more modular due to the use of cards.

[@AymericGA]

Yes I agree, I would love a video on how the game works with the new system

[@bluebotic2327]

@@AymericGA if the play testing goes well, I’ll shoot and post a session.

[@thumperhunts6250]

Whats the name of the corner cutter?

[@johnmiddleton4291]

It's from Oregon Lamination. You can get it in various radii, but this one is probably 3mm.

[@bluebotic2327]

Yup. OL. This one has lasted for 7 years, 2mm, I think..... Thousands of corners. I probably need to get it sharpened.

[@JK-pg2qn]

Why not poll people on boardgamegeek whether they'd prefer standees included or as an addon? As for card backs, I prefer the utilitarian approach: add some advanced rules, or any other game content.

[@bluebotic2327]

I posted a survey here on my channel a few weeks ago (since this YT channel is really the only platform I'm on and it has more eyes on it than my BGG page). I got about 100 responses and they were split down the middle about standees as part of the core or as add-ons. It's interesting to see that half the people interested in LOW are totally cool with just counters. And half really want standees. Yeah, monster card backs should probably enhance gameplay in some way, and not just be eye candy or flavor.