DOC HARLEY: 2 POINT RULE IN CAM INSTALLATION

[@bogiewheelman71]

Good to see someone still working with a shovelhead at a dealership.

[@thomasborger6548]

Exactly what I was thinking

[@est.1970]

Fantastic information. I must have watched a dozen cam install videos and not one of them discussed end play tolerance. Thank you!

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Glad it was helpful....Doc

[@rgh622]

I'm replacing cam chain tensioners right now on my TC88. Thanks Doc for the timely advice!

[@SuperScoopydoopy]

Do you have to remove both cam and pinion bolts to pull the cam plate out?

[@brandonjones152]

Timely !🤔

[@RenegadesGarage]

Low Country Harley-Davidson... Very good point as usual sir. You would be surprised at how many KZbin videos I have watched with people doing their Harley repairs completely wrong. Some of them even have a service manual but they don't use it. They say there is no need to torque things or they are torquing to spec but not in the correct sequence... It's unreal.

[@kingkrimson8771]

And the sad part is, those same people will blame Harley for poor quality when their engine blows up SMH

[@RenegadesGarage]

@@kingkrimson8771 Exactly. People like that should stay far away from tools.

[@PanM8]

@@kingkrimson8771 hit the nail on the head.

[@thomaskirkpatrick4031]

Wow, a Harley dealership that still works on Shovels, I thought that stopped many years ago.

[@Frankfoot986]

Could be his

[@narudelics]

++not many of us H-D techs know how to work on old engines but, luckily there's a couple of us out there that still do for the sake of our customers++

[@brandonmacon3317]

@@narudelics thank God because I tare shit up. To the shop they go 😳

[@outspoken5326]

is there anything this man doesnt know about harleys. i like how he ges right to the point of the problem and the fix. well explained and easy to follow along.

[@GalvTexGuy]

There is one excellent video on KZbin for changing cams from start to finish on a twin cam that explains these two rules and many others. I highly recommend if you're doing cams that you watch that video.

[@robertbrewer2179]

Ok what video is it?

[@BigChuck525]

I have a great tip for lining up the dots on the cam gears. It's simple if you didn't know this already you should not be working on a Harley. Start with a Briggs and Stratton.

[@karmsenrab8587]

The more I learn about the twin cam and corners cut by harley to 'save money' ' (considering what they ask for one) , I truly believe that dropped the ball and proved to the customer base that their profits were more important than the dependable operation of the machine and the satisfaction and peace of mind of the customer! I wanna lay out 20 grand so I can take my bike back to the dealer for a motor rebuild??? They WILL regret this in the long run, it's going to cost them a LOT more!!! BUT the used market will be great...

[@eb1941]

Beautiful gear drive on the shovelhead.

[@dadtrap]

Did a rebuild on my 1200 EVO the shop manual was worth 10 times what I paid for it

[@tomchristian4304]

As much as I like to work on my own stuff, this looks like I should take it in.

[@EarlGuyton425]

On the shovel and Evo, it is always necessary to bolt the cam cover back on with the gasket and snug the bolts to measure the slide of the cam in those two engine types with the lifters out of engine so you can measure through the lifter holes,, and not allow any more than the book says 50 k, which seems too much to me, so I go for 30k clearance, then after that is achieved the remove the cam again if a fatter cam spacer is needed. The twin cam, you must make sure the gear above the pinion gear isnt set in farther or outer as Doc mentioned, and use a small metal machine straight edge to place more than half on the upper gear and hold it flat and see what clearance there is at the pimion gear under the edge

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Thanks for sharing your tech tips...Doc

[@mikerapp8163]

Doc, on the Shovelhead…when the timing marks are aligned, should the front cylinder be at TDC? Thanks!

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Shovels have several timing marks. Depending on year. There is a front advance mark, a top dead center for front and a rear timing mark….Doc

[@mikerapp8163]

@LowCountryHarleyDavidson yes. I have a 1970 FLH. Installed a new stock cam. When I align cam, breather and pinion at their marks, front cylinder is not at TDC. Doesn't seem right.

[@Bostonterrier97]

Solid advice.

[@ut1004bp]

Excellent, thanks for the insight.. Doing mine shortly

[@HD2O13XL12OOC]

At this point I'm kind of wondering if you're talking to someone in your own shop? Maybe they had a little bit of an issue Maybe this is a training video? either way thank you very much for the detail explanation I really appreciate it.

[@BLZDxSAM]

Here’s my question. Rebuilding a 98 Evo right now. Do I need to align the timing marks before removal of the cam? Also if I’m removing an OEM cam, and replacing with an OEM cam. Will I still need to shim? Or will it be fine with the exact set up that is currently in there?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

First you can always rotate the motor to get the alignment marks correct. Second Don’t get lazy and guess with motor work…..Doc

[@anitabonghit266]

Metal breathers are definitely not a good idea. Because when they fail, and they do fail, all things go south really quickly. Reed valve breathers don’t have a timing mark though. Pinion gears on evo and prior have different sizes. Sportster cams are completely different because they have 4 cams but have two different timing marks. One set for sportster and one set for buels. Sportster cams go 1234 and buel cams go 4321. The number two cam drives the oil pump on both manufactures

[@RickyG512]

Hi Doc, do you have the P/N for the spacer kit please for M8? Thank youu

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

P/N 25928-06

[@RickyG512]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson perfect, thanks doc 👌

[@2HAWG]

Hey Doc, I have a 2023 Breakout. I am installing a Sleipnir 2 into 1 exhaust. I’ve seen one install and the installer says I don’t need a remap tuner. In other fee to honour my warranty my dealer says I have to use a Harley tuner. Do I need one?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Harley-Davidson has never offered a 2-1 complete exhaust for the Breakout from the Factory. So the Factory tune that came with the bike will not match. Will the bike run? Yes. Worst scenario is the bike runs lean, sieze pistons, HD request pictures of the bike, broken parts not covered under warranty. About the tuner, the dealer is correct. HD only honors their product under warranty. It is always your choice….Doc

[@jaseysmith1629]

I had a 14 street glide I had accidentally had off a tooth on the cams timing marks! It was missing and running lean. I corrected it but I’m praying it’s okay.

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Glad you caught that...Doc

[@jaseysmith1629]

Install the Zippers 525 along with the cam plate and oil pump, new Fueling lifters and the FP3

[@trailerparkcryptoking5213]

I’m gonna tackle my cam swap myself! I have all the specs I need except the torque fer the blinker fluid reservoir? Gonna install high lifters n popup pixstons also..... I got this...😂😂😂

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Be sure you have someone close by to “hold my beer”….Doc

[@silentone1658]

Thank you !

[@JorgeReyes-kj6fk]

Thanks for the tips.

[@rtkl13]

Thank you sir...got a cam for my M8 don't know jack about it but done a gazillion Evos

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

With a Service Manual it is so much easier....Doc

[@rtkl13]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson agreed...definitely no stranger to the business and I appreciate your feedback

[@ampegloud]

Do you know what’s funny you could have about 50 of these Harley Davidson Mechanic gurus they all got different ways of doing things think about it 🤷‍♂️

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

I am just a Harley-Davidson Technician not a guru. You are correct a little bit. There are variations but we all follow the same Harley Service Manual as u should too. Think about it…..Doc

[@acurarl9929]

Installing cams on 97 sporty1200 and jugs an pistons.ect . How do I know if I’m on the correct rotation. Can’t cam marks line up if I’m on compression stroke and line up on not compression stroke. So don’t I need to align all cams marks on the correct stroke. Just lot of wrk don’t want to do it twice. Cam marks all line up but how do I know that it’s in alignment with ignition and compression not no ignition and on over lap. Engines tore down an cams out an engines been spun over. Yes I line up cam marks but I can still be one full rotation off right ? So at this point how do I know I’m on correct rotation before I install heads?

[@dansklenicka8403]

Alway on spot info. Doc Thsnks

[@CarlosGarcia-ls4hn]

Doc, I noted that the cams on a Harley twin, have the alignment mark on the side that goes toward the cam plate. Once you attach the cams to the cam plate, you cannot see the marks, or can you? They should have put those marks on the inner side of the cams. Also, when the marks are aligned, does that mean the piston is at tdc?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

I personally use a black permanent marker and follow the Factory marks to the other side. and yes the cams have the same marks on the the shaft so the outer gears can be aligned...Doc

[@justanotherviewer52]

Thanks Doc.

[@Grunt49]

Always great info!

[@rustyboltz5058]

Another great video Doc. Keep them coming!

[@ut1004bp]

Doc I got a question, on my M8,..With Jim's Tool, I pressed the new cam bearing in, after installing the new CNC oil and cam plate, the bearing proved it wasn't quite deep enough, and I couldn't rotate the cam, so I pulled the new oil pump and cam plate back out and snugged the bearing down maybe just under an 1/8" until totally bottomed out (Harley Manual says set at depth of 94.92 mm) . I Now have at least a 1/16th of back and forth play in cam, in the cam plate with re -assembled and torqued .is this too much slide end play (the manual doesn't seem to address acceptable play limit thought the shovel heads are about .008 limit)? I haven't yet re-installed the pinion and cam gear and spacing washer. I'm considering pulling the oil pump and cam plate back out, check the cam plate ton ensure it's not bent, , and using the Jim"s Tool to pull that new full roller bearing back only slightly out, maybe half - full turn..as I don't think it would damage the bearing to move it slightly(?)

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

You are not supposed to move the inner bearing in and out with the tool. If you have, take it out and install a new one. The end play is adjusted with correct shim washers behind the gears. A set can be purchased at your dealer….Doc

[@ut1004bp]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Thanks for the rapid reply. I haven't pulled on the new cam bearing , after pressing in place. I already have the shim pack here and ready, I just didnt think it was to remove end play (in-out), but thought it was to ensure that the pinion gear and cam gear line up with in .010 or or less.. I also do have a spare Cam Roller bearing (just in case).. I'll first try adding the gears and proper shim to see if some how the combination removes the in-out movement of the cam, and if not, I'll measure the depth of the cam bearing tonight and decide if to pull it out. thanks

[@bradmilkowski9786]

Thank you Doc

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

You are very welcome...D

[@davidmcintyre4375]

Hey Doc I'm writing from down under..I put my 2020 Road Glide in to local shop to do the 475 cam, came back ...not runing like it should as in changing gears low down having a spluta changing through gears, only tune first was with my tuner, then they Dynod it...still the same...after that they sent to different dealer...now f....kn same thing!!..they say there teck guys say it's OK....its not..what to do?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

E mail me more info. This does not make sense. Changing a cam does not effect transmission unless its how you ride. Short shifting? holding throttle wide open and banging gears? Did the issue of shifting start BEFORE the cam change? I would stop tuning and take a part drive train. Clutch to start with. Compensator condition, Clutch inner hub splines, shifting linkage.....Doc

[@Habersham25]

Doc do you recommend chain cams or gear cams?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Take some time and watch Baxter"s garage video on this subject. For the Street chain is the best, For performance the gear drive offers more but longevity is compromised if your compensator comes loose...Doc

[@keithwaite5026]

Is it true that the twin cam will run perfect with out the tensioners in at all and they are only there for noise reduction?

[@gucci4871]

Ha!

[@keithwaite5026]

Alan Whiteside ..About..?🙄

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Keith that’s news to me. Chains are way to loose to run without tensioners of any kind. Thanks ~ Doc

[@keithwaite5026]

Low Country Harley-Davidson Thanks for reply, it was something I seen on KZbin seemed legit, but wanted to hear your opinion, always learn and enjoy your vids , Thanks again Doc.❤️👊👍

[@megastick9324]

@@keithwaite5026 I saw that too, he was full of .... just a troll trying to get people with no knowledge to blow apart their motors.

[@biggbossman1130]

Ordered my device manual last night ...as soon as it gets her, I will be changing out my entire cam chest

[@lesliehorton4256]

Its just a shame all that money for a 12 RG 103 and when Harley parts fail aftermarket parts are better. I think putting a S&S in it and be done. Wouldn't it be great it S&S started building Bikes?

[@lesliehorton4256]

P.S Doc no offense!

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Take time and review S&S history. They did build with other companies. I especially enjoyed their huge 3 cam motor. But sadly it is gone. For a while they built Indian motors, sadly they are gone. S&S used to rebuild Evo motors for HD and independents. Sadly that’s gone. Their wheel house has always been building alternative performance parts for your Harley. Stroker kits were my favorite. Their M8 products are a good option. In my opinion their cylinder/piston could be better. As always thanks for sharing your thoughts….Doc

[@bobwhite1734]

Do you have the specs of 2010 FLHTK stock camshaft (lift & duration)? Really like your videos.

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Stock Cam specs (“2015 Harley-Davidson Screamin’ Eagle Pro Racing Parts” Catalog, p.75) are as follows: Lift @ Valve Intake/Exhaust - .484”/.484” Duration @ .053 Intake/Exhaust - 198°/222° Timing @ .053 Lift Open/Close - Intake (12° ATDC/30° ABDC); Exhaust (38° BBDC/04° ATDC) TDC Lift @ Valve Intake/Exhaust - 0.041”/.102” I hope this helps

[@bobwhite1734]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson thanks again

[@kelliezink6458]

CASH3WINS

[@bryanlineberry5502]

My 98 evo 1340 has no mark on pinion gear whatsoever its the original cam as this bike set in a garage for 22 years. How do I find tdc

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

The hardest marks to find are the ones in between the teeth. Some times you have to remove the nut to see it……Doc

[@danielshovelheader9415]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson I used a very bright light and a piece of .04 wire and ran it along the gear, it just caught the line. dots on either side would have been nice, if I open it again I'm marking it with something, it took a bit to find but I got it. thanks, Doc!!

[@jpdbeach]

Rule #1. Don’t let dealership touch your motorcycle

[@dhiogjenjarazi8298]

hello. I am from Albania. I have an S & S engine (No. A09872) from 2000. I am looking for a catalog for installation instructions. can you suggest me where to look?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

The S&S Web site has several Downloads and their Contact page where you could request instructions.....Doc

[@kelliezink6458]

@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson 🔥

[@Peter-976]

So are we talking about the first thing or the second thing? How can we talk about the second thing if we don`t talk about the first thing? Did you talk to the guy?

[@remedialone6987]

Ben Soble-ioni

[@jimmyp6443]

Wow no chain on shovelheads ,yes timing chains no good

[@AA-69]

I CAN GET MY FINGER UNDER MY END PLATE !!! and it runs as sweet as those lovely Japanese bikes !... Are you a really Doctor ?..

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Thanks for sharing and your comment...Doc

[@stevebarton3172]

iony hi

[@theodavies8754]

For the UK, please stop using metric hex for DIY Harley servicing. On the up side you can tell what has been fiddled with.

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

😆….Doc

[@dougfresh1341]

You guys don't actually work on those Shovels... just display right?

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Yes we do work on Shovels, Evo, Twin Cam and M8 (with a few Cast Iron Sportsters, Buells and Vrods too) Thanks ~ Doc

[@dougfresh1341]

Low Country Harley-Davidson Impressive. Thanks for the video.

[@laurelsullivan4932]

Do you work on Harley's that aren't stock at your place? The one in Revere mass won't work on my stock Harley because I changed the air filter and had a tune put on it. Wicked snobby over there.

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Laurel sorry to hear of your difficult experience with your local dealer. The issue could be with “ the tune”. It is difficult for a dealer to be familiar with all tuning devices. How are they to know if a running issue has to do with a tuner they have no knowledge of or if the HD motor? This is always the advice I give my customers, if you move or travel, staying with H-D products allows you to be repaired at any Dealer nationwide. I have tried to expand my knowledge of aftermarket tuners but that is our dealership. I hope you will find a dealer who will work with you. Thanks ~ Doc

[@AA-69]

ARE YOU SURE THEY MUST BE IN ALINE ??? Mines is two teeth out and it runs great !...

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Wow, You must of been building motors longer than me. Glad you have joined us and sharing your wealth of knowledge...Doc

[@Hooijnbvn]

Building an “engine”. Motors are electric. Have a good day.

[@megastick9324]

Yea, that’s been a long running argument. So , please define what makes an engine and what makes a motor? I think you’ll find you’ll paint yourself into a corner. Why? Because while electric motors are motors, engines serve the same purpose , thereby also making an engine a motor. Ask the real engineers, this has been played out for years.

[@toolmaker5150]

Enginecycle , got it.

[@ericgabriel4190]

Motor can be hydraulic as well. Engines make their own power, motors get power from an outside source.

[@megastick9324]

@@ericgabriel4190 engines make their own power? So , what’s the gasoline for? It’s fuel, it’s where the energy comes from. Without this “ outside source” there is no power. As I said above, this argument was played out long ago.

[@toddaod295]

Harley Davidson Engine Company.....hmmm

[@ZeroBit0]

it seems like all the Harleys around here don't so anything. except sell bikes.

[@LowCountryHarleyDavidson]

Thanks for taking the time to watch this one. Good luck in finding the Channel that will answer all your questions...Doc