Lower international student revenue means closures, service declines: expert | Power & Politics

A CBC News analysis reveals that what has been framed as a nationwide explosion in international student numbers is disproportionately linked to a handful of schools - most of them public institutions predominantly in Ontario. The CBC's Mike Crawley has the details. Plus, we speak to Alex Usher, president of Higher Education Strategy Associates.
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[@pearpenguin]

Boo hoo. These institutions enjoyed a cash grab and now the diplomas they issue have lost their value in the job market. Greed is everywhere. What a mess.

[@kevinbudgetkitchen551]

100% agreed....now they are crying...

[@Dremin2009]

Without this influx of foreign money, there's a lot of programs at these colleges and universities that would never be economic to offer. It's an easy fix, cut the worthless programs, fire the worthless professors, and get back to the basics. Not everyone needs a degree for every job.

[@peterwilson8039]

Back in the day I went to Simon Fraser University and got a first class honours degree in Physics, and when all was said and done I was left with a student loan of $12000. Nowadays a student spends that easily in their first semester. There is considerable value in making high-quality government-funded education affordable for bright hard-working students.

[@robingrg1]

Education is not a commodity to be sold on international market. Strip mall colleges must be investigated for fraud.

[@JJJohnson441]

Sounds like you work minimum wage and don't really understand how any of this work.

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Wrong they would have to adjust the programs. Meaning firing useless management who makes too much cut the bloat

[@oacy16]

And also defend the CBC

[@TheGrimlx3]

If 85% of your students are international. Open a college/university in that country.....

[@kunalkulkarni1233]

Unfortunately, that won't work because students are not coming here because of the quality of education it's just because easy way to immigrate to Canada and colleges are taking advantage of that.

[@earthwormjim6962]

But you can't charge exorbitant fees then.

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

​@@kunalkulkarni1233Most international students do not acquire citizenship. So it isn't so easy.

[@edgaryh]

It's almost as if... they aren't enrolling for... the actual education.

[@peterwilson8039]

@phia-ox7ep I looked into this. About 80% of international students stay in Canada after they graduate. The government has been working hard on attracting immigration to help grow the economy. Canadians aren't reproducing enough to maintain the population and a shrinking population means economic recession. That's the logic behind it anyway. Foreign students are a big part of that.

[@heartborne123]

Are there any statistics on how rich the directors of private colleges have become in the last 10 years?

[@davidblane771]

It's the public colleges that are doing the most harm and trying to use private schools as scapegoats. Conestoga College alone has brought in over 30,000 international students over the past few years.

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Exactly

[@davidblane771]

Thanks KZbin for deleting my comment stating that it's actually the public colleges, the worst being Conestoga, that are the problem. Not private.

[@davidc1878]

If you think the bloated and unsustainable nature of higher education doesn't include public universities you are wrong. I spend over two decades teaching at a Canadian university and I would say this: your average Canadian would be horrified if they learned about the extremely high wages and, most of all, the benefits that university faculty receive in Canada. It is even worse for the top-level administrators. I taught at a small, primarily undergraduate university and the President makes half a million, before benefits. Most faculty try everything to get course relief (i.e. reduce their teaching load) and expect to get study leave every six years (no teaching, full pay for an entire year). Public universities have a lot of financial problems and are completely unsustainable.

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

@@davidc1878 Most faculty try to get course relief and study leaves every 6 months? You are a liar sir.

[@zaraig5373]

Universities have become customer service based: you bring money, you pass.

[@davidc1878]

I am a retired academic (taught for over two decades) and you are very correct. The one thing that horrified me is that in the last decade I taught, my university essentially stopped putting students on academic probation. Before that, if a student was failing courses and had a poor GPA, the student was forced to withdraw and could reapply after a year. It's a good policy because some people are just not ready for university straight out of high school and time off can be a good thing. Well, that policy was ended and I kid you not, I had many students who failed a required course for their program and took the course five or six times. Of course, those students pay tuition on all those attempts and I saw this just as a desperate crab for tuition money. Money, money, money... that is what higher education is all about these days. Profs don't want to teach, they only want more government grants to do research. They will let almost anyone in as a student and keep them paying even if they are failing. They want international students because they pay much higher tuition. It's sad.

[@youpedia4614]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@lelunie]

Maybe they should only allow accredited educational institutions

[@blaze1420666]

Something needs to be done about this. Canada has turned into the world's doormat

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

Did you pay attention dum dum?

[@morimoko]

clearly you didn't.@@PhilSophia-ox7ep

[@thebirdboy1766]

Imagine what the US will say?

[@heenanyou]

What a dopey comment.

[@wademacphee3924]

I'm a domestic student in a 9 month trade course. The faculty are possibly going on strike in two weeks. They have been negotiating since August 2023. the school stacked the executive positions with big salaries while program resources and salaries for faculty has been neglected for the past couple years. Just the type of business these school executives have been doing

[@Adam.5111]

We need students in skilled trades like plumbers, electricians, housing carpenters, roofers etc. The overwhelming majority of them don't study trade. They just get the study permit as a mean to obtain P.R, that is their end goal and not education.

[@bobyews2826]

Then we'd need more immigrants from Latin America. Most don't study trades because in Asian (south and east) culture, it is low class, even worse than food service and retail.

[@manishpjoshi]

Canadian education is sub par. The only reason international student come here is because it leads to a PR. Trade diplomas do not qualify for a PR. Only a university degree does.

[@spawn11]

​@@bobyews2826they not considered low class its just pays bad in those nations. I have seen many immigrants as plumbers, electrician, flooring, roofing guys... Most cable installers from Bell,Rogers are Indians in GTA. Show them the money they would do anything.

[@achervoniy]

@@spawn11yeah… I have seen their cabling job all over Asia!!!

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Nope don't need trades being brought to the lower common denominator you don't just flood jobs with people especially building trades

[@randomrazr]

LOL then lower the salaeries of those presidents and executives at top

[@checory]

post secondary admin staffs are unionized leeches. it's disgusting learning that a faculty relations advisor is paid $75k annually just to host meetings

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Exactly rich are mad they need to cut back now

[@Sebastian-wz1wh]

These diploma mills shouldn't exist in the first place

[@lcg5790]

Huh, I guess lower numbers means less pressure on services which means less staff required.

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

And less money for education so more tax dollars from you.

[@jadwinderparmar4567]

what about 1 million Ukraine's and other refuge come to canada to get taxpayers money and use our services for free

[@d.flaherty227]

Perhaps less DEI HR staff.

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

@@jadwinderparmar4567 Get a life

[@jvssocialmedia2459]

@PhilSophia-ox7ep No, schools need to cut their costs. Worked at one. Ridiculous.

[@kabaFouji]

Our local students are not finding jobs they are struggling to pay off student loans where as on the other hand a group of people and groups are making money by calling more International students into our country and there is no proportion to our country youths and to I.S. THIS is creating a big pressure on local resources. Our priority should be to accomodate our young generation to be adopted on local jobs first and once I.S. completes education ,they should leave country to their home land as they signed agreement that after completion of education they will go back. But they stay here and abuse the soft corner of our law. Thanks

[@MyrtletheTurtle3867]

This is very simple. If a college & university can't provide onsite housing for students, they don't get permits.

[@Adam.5111]

exactly.

[@genefowler2431]

The five sins: Incompetence , corruption ,stupidity, kickbacks ,greed . Pick your poison . government , cabinet ministers. Colleges , universities I will say that all the five sins smear them all.

[@jvssocialmedia2459]

It SHOULD mean schools need to get rid of the top-heavy model it now has, and get back to basics. The sheer number of pension/generous benefit positions for people having nothing to do with teaching is inexcusable. Cut compensation, eliminate positions, again, get back to basics.

[@davidc1878]

As a former prof, another major problem is that faculty are actually teaching less and less. At my institution, about 30% of faculty did only research and no teaching. At universities, faculty increasingly consider teaching to be a burden that graduate students should be forced to undertake. You are correct in that the administrative positions have become extremely bloated. It is a travesty. Higher education has completely lost its way over my career as a student and as a faculty member... it is so sad to see.

[@theowoytowich9959]

Agree

[@triznat]

Lol, that headline, scary buzz words, "closures", "service declines", and the always required "expert".

[@daleweiss9507]

Stop!! Not "service decline" I can't take it anymore.

[@uwannagobudgaming7280]

Send them home

[@surreyslurrey]

When you think about it, simple actions like this, pursuit of higher revenues and profits, contributed to Canadian inflation in serious ways. If some of these 'institutions' go under now, they deserve to do so.

[@nooa69]

Weird how post secondary used to survive without international students. They get tuition, government supports AND major donations from individuals, banks and corporations. Perhaps fire their boards and get rid of shareholders and put people in charge that dont waste money?

[@youpedia4614]

Where will the money come from. You can't print money to give to universities, it will cause inflation and everyone will get angrier. Just need to keep letting international students fund it but only at the same levels it was pre covid. This craziness started after covid

[@lesliewilker412]

A fast track into Canada. Immigration has to stop until we can build housing. We have already thrown the next generation of young Canadians under the bus.

[@Optimistprime.]

Where I live, in Ontario, theres plenty of houses being build but they are are all 2000sq+ houses that are between 700,000 and a milion. Leaving out a large portion of the population.

[@bryankerr9174]

Is there any evidence this scheme had benefitted Canada (apart from these schools)? Also, how can I take a school and their education quality seriously if they cannot balance their budgets?

[@emartinezr]

That loss of revenue is the same "loss of revenue" Canadian workers constantly deal with as a result of insane rent prices.

[@shauncameron8390]

And the insane rent prices are the result of insane taxes, inflation, interest rates, etc.

[@emartinezr]

@shauncameron8390 yes. The result of government policies, government corruption, misleading and lies all tied and ends up reflecting in a ridiculous housing bubble that doesn't allow people working in Canada to afford a home. For sure not to buy, and in some areas even to rent.

[@Boujading1]

Dramatic loss of revenue LOL! So Conestoga will make only $70 million this year instead of $140. The community will benefit with less competition for rentals and reduced impacts on health care, social & community services. BALANCE

[@furiousstormrage927]

So, Canadian immigration AND education is now a joke.

[@youstew99]

It's been a joke since Expo 86

[@archie_bunker]

you crooked professors need to be in jail.

[@pagit69]

Oh no, Bently University might have to lay staff off.

[@checory]

good. plenty of unionized admin staff leaching off of the funds. $75k for faculty relations advisor is BS

[@chelseablue8001]

Education is education. Business is business. This is what happen if education is purely business now, and business is greedy. Common sense is that business (education) ultimate goal is maxmize the revenue.

[@Dstinct]

The average domestic student in Ontario is subsidized drastically less as a percentage of their overall tuition compared to previous generations. Austerity measure by multiple Ontario governments have cut funding while also blocking the institutions from charging more. In fact, the Ford government LOWERED what these institutions were allowed to charge. This mess is the Government's doing because like many things, previous generations have pulled the ladder up behind them. Older generations wanted their tax cuts, and so the programs that they had funded for them have been cut, and these institutions have had to find new ways to make up for the shortfall. This is why you get nickel and dimed by your GP for side services that used to be covered, and why these institutions have had to find other sources of income (such as foreign students) to bridge the gaps.

[@beautanner8409]

I'm surprised that BC (which is a known major destination hub for international students) wasn't even mentioned in the report. I would have liked to see its numbers posted alongside Ontario's at least for comparison's sake. I know that UBC, for instance, has higher numbers than several of those institutions on the graphs in the written piece - some parsing of those numbers by CBC would've been helpful.

[@Adam.5111]

BC is way to expensive to live in, that's why!

[@stinkerson]

you want the cbc to be honest?

[@jeanbolduc5818]

Vancouver and Toronto are 2 Indians and Chines cities .... nothing Canadian

[@checory]

The video is heavily moderated, just like the comment section, to cater to whichever population. But the truth is, these colleges are scapegoats since the credits are transferable to public universities. These universities thrive on international student funding to serve their over bloated unionized administrative staff

[@beautanner8409]

@@stinkerson I don't see any reason, on this point, why they'd be dishonest. What would their motive be - in a piece that is essentially critical of public institutions - to protect those in another province? I think the data they're sharing just needs to be more carefully explained.

[@Meeko2689]

Nice try by the federal government to blame someone else, Immigration is federal responsabilitythat includes providing student visas

[@tacticalskiffs8134]

When my dad ran a Canadian college they took salary cuts to keep the college going in hard times. But since the late boomers took over it has all been about making more money. They jacked up tuition to pay higher salaries because of "competition for the best people". None of them, of course, interviewed for their higher pay rates, they just assumed they were all worth it. Then they courted industry for endowments to build new international centers, and libraries. And rather than have a handful of people running the place they now have a new building going up over the staff parking lot, to house all the new DEI hires. Then they doubled the enrollment, all with foreign students. Who park their Ferraris on downtown avenues and don't give a toss about the tickets. They long since sold out to Pharma.

[@PhilSophia-ox7ep]

What a clownish statement.

[@morimoko]

What about that exactly is clownish? what about that isn't true?@@PhilSophia-ox7ep

[@YabbaDabbaDoTime]

You do realize that most boomers are retired now right? We're talking about people in their 70's and 80's.

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Exactly rich and politicians need to budget themselves now screw them.

[@MrLuchenkov]

@abbaDoTime They weren't when the number of international students started exploding. Also, several university and college boardrooms have people in the 70s. I know mine did. With that said, you are right that most of them are probably retired and that the leadership we're seeing is mostly very late boomers to Gen X.

[@Zadako666]

The Board in these universities and owners of this Business who have alredy earned millions in Tax cuts and subsidy should be brought into justice for corruption. Shame on them.

[@kirtybearoriginal]

Oh well dont care. Take your private schools abroad then

[@GadsdenGal]

Let’s not forget the slip up that Miller made, awhile back, where he described foreign students as “lucrative”, and then caught himself and corrected himself.

[@timstevens3361]

i guess we know who should be building new buildings then right

[@AllycatCommentary]

Canada has a lot of untapped talent in our own country, people who can't afford to go to post secondary because they live in poor, rural areas with underfunded high schools that don't offer the prerequisites to get into university or college programs. Canada should work to support those people and help our own, not help internationals who don't go to class and don't respect our country.

[@fourteendays544]

Canada needs a reset. Higher fees for international students, no residency or citizenship after courses are complete. No bringing family while they study. Their purpose in Canada is to become educated, not gain citizenship for themselves and family. Pay tuition and on campus housing before entering Canada and signing an agreement to leave 2 weeks after completion of courses.

[@nelsonanih7092]

Then sit back and watch no one come here🤣even a rat in the bush wouldn't take that value proposition

[@samyu6493]

School is for education, not making money... They have to realize this point. For a certain percentage of international students do help with schools' financial issues, but for the past 10 years, schools are only on milking on the international students for more money and lack of focusing on providing education for students.

[@shauncameron8390]

Thanks to government restrictions on how much they're allowed to charge domestic students.

[@esparda07]

And a lot of people had the audacity to say International Students weren't a problem. lol

[@anbluerise]

It's time for things to get in order without relying on international students as cash cows, expose every institution for this.

[@zsedcify]

Sounds like Ontario MofEducation's rule shift allowing regional institutions to set up satellite campuses (primarily in GTA) was a terrible policy decision. Has it been rescinded yet, Messrs Lecce and Ford?

[@phoenixrising4995]

Those are just the enrolment numbers for full time programs. All the different micro credentials, fast training even part time studies have a crap ton of the internationals in them.

[@joept333]

What good is a diploma when they just print them out

[@bloo4448]

“Skilled workers “ sure what about the illegal immigrants …..

[@thepaintedlady4637]

These schools never should have been allowed to operate with this business model in the first place, profiteering off immigration at the expense of the average low to middle income Canadian. For those of us who now pay DOUBLE in rent, their business practices are effectively a tax on Canadian renters. Are Canadian renters going to be compensated for their financial losses through increased competition and prices in the rental market? I don't want to hear any more stories with big businesses crying about how their going to take a hit now. Too bad. They should have beeen required by law to provide housing for every student they admit from abroad, from day one. There is no absorption capacity in the rental market right now.

[@AlbertaleoAlbertalei]

So, we can tell you that the international students didn't go into the programs that had alocated positions( nursing and health care ) but cant tell you what other programs attended instead? Not very complex to discern. Perhaps if someone was actually paying attention, this would've been uncovered sooner.

[@tiffany.Elizabeth.]

They were mainly 1 year business admin or ‘tech’ diplomas

[@kanthan668]

Why big corporations are allowed to outsource, accounting, customer service and IT jobs to low cost countries? So may are unemployed here ....

[@Stinder]

These schools have been gorging on international student fees for over a decade and are now crying poverty lol.

[@rachelk8368]

Those institutions offer programs that are non essential with the technology we have now. We need more labor/trades not people with hospitality degrees.

[@JamieHumeCreative]

A bit alarmist. You apparently have no idea how hard it is just to get a simple sales job right now. A hundred or more applicants... so calm down.

[@cmartin1170]

It's like hearing a drug lord complaining because his patrons have ODd

[@VoiceBootcampInc]

government should force all private/public college to build dorms for students and international student should only be allow to stay in those dorm and pay rent to college/university. They should not be allow to stay in local residential area as a tanent Let college and university build those dorm with cheap loan if needed and recover their money with international student. No international students should be allow to work until they reach 2nd/3rd year only than they should be able to fill the gap of those jobs that needs to be filled. Local resident are turning their houses in to dorm and making a 3 bedroom house into 12 bedroom dormtary and making housing crisis even worse for short term gain.

[@phoenixrising4995]

No thanks I’m not paying more to board someone from another country in a college dorm through higher taxes.

[@etiennebisset5642]

WTF??? Where's The Fund? You mean Canada is so poor and money from IS is shoring it? WTF?

[@straife1]

Post-secondary education is a complete waste of money. We would be better off if most of these schools closed.

[@phoenixrising4995]

EXACtLY! This thing called HR wants it even though most employers hate some of these ding dong college grads.

[@chaluchalu9155]

India firing 41 visa issuing canadian diplomats caused the rolling of events leading to this....if anybody cares to understand....😂😂

[@surpotel8016]

Looks like Canada is solving India's unemployment problems

[@aquarius9900]

All this international student stuff has made it near imposable for older born canadians over 45 who dont have high-school graduation to get into a simple career. You have to have a certificate for every little thing here. Its compleatly ridiculous

[@manishpjoshi]

The Canadian Government allows international students to work 40 hours per week. This is the reason locals are not getting jobs.

[@jvssocialmedia2459]

It's especially bad for individuals for whom low skilled jobs are not "under-employment."

[@dougpatterson7494]

​@@jvssocialmedia2459non-citizen/PR should have a minimum wage $5/hr higher than general minimum wage so that foriegn students and TFWs can't be used as "cheap labour".

[@StephenLeGresley]

Ok so who's going to pay for the housing? Who's going to pay for the health care? We can't put the added strain on those systems just to make colleges happy. We don't have the resources. If College want international students that badly then let them foot the bill for their housing and other services and then see if they think it's such a good idea.

[@webrbio3153]

You mean no more puppy mill cash cows to enable society fracturing profiteering. OHHHH NNOOOOOO, how will the administrators afford their 5th Muskoka rental cottage mortgage?

[@JR_55591]

I am surprised there isn't a lawsuit or petition against the colleges and universities involved in this matter.

[@AFineFindThifter-bf6bh]

My education was ruined by the bullying I received during COVID a with a bunch of faking international so called students being the only Canadian in the class I was expected to teach them English all I got was backstabbed and ridiculed get rid of them

[@EJBradley]

Part-part profs are already paid bottom of the barrel to teach our students. We need to cut excessive administration costs.

[@user-sb3is1bk6h]

Maybe the administrators can take a pay cut. Their salary seem a little high to me. And these students are missing out on anything these teachers and professors. They can't even get how many genders there are correct.

[@spiritcrunch]

Lol, good luck convincing a boomer administrator to take a pay cut. If they cared about education then they never would have created this system in the first place.

[@dougpatterson7494]

Tertiary education institutions shouldnt be able to make more revenue based on where the students are from.

[@Crypto11]

"experts"

[@Troy-ol5fk]

I didn't learn a whole lot at my so-called DLI

[@Traumerei112]

Canindia

[@pjx607]

Anytime an international student chooses to go to Conestoga College, they're not going for the education LOL.

[@karthikm3596]

Close units instead of bringing in people who will be enslaved by corporations to keep the wages low and help the rich investors by keeping the rents high

[@gurkiratsingh4314]

There are better ways of growing money, rather than extorting foreigners, while there's barely sufficient housing, jobs or a will to live.

[@shauncameron8390]

Like what? Extorting locals with higher taxes?

[@nitinverma5149]

Public colleges and university are also to blame...scapegoating private colleges is not fair.....what about the quality of education in canada?who checks if the quality is maintained? It reveals the corruption of the system. How gave them license? What about alpha collge who has a capacity of 400 students enrolling 2400 students. Are you kidding me? Who let that happen?

[@phoenixrising4995]

Public colleges like Conestoga have like 70% international student revenues. No crap they should close campuses.

[@genevievesirois3338]

They could offer more online programs! There are lots of good courses/programs in Toronto that would be nice to access online. With the technology available, they could improve the way they present the courses.

[@jitheshl7037]

Do we have the total number of dependents as well for those 1.5 million study permits?

[@marvin6016]

4 year year degrees are too long. Most of what you learn is "BS", you forgot right after you write exam. Make it two years to get degree and then let people apply to programs.

[@dss5295]

What is the controversy? The cap applies to public colleges as well, just excludes Masters and PhD students.

[@phoenixrising4995]

I say let the institutions fold who can’t keep up. Don’t care public is the same or worse than private. F It let the whole structure collapse already

[@ohcanadaeh]

How come we have not heard from the government of Ontario ? All levels governments knew what was happening but no one did anything about it. They all were looking for additional and sources of revenue. Follow the $ and you will find the truth.

[@jeanbolduc5818]

Enough immigrants from India

[@sa-uz8xv]

Slumber college

[@MattBlueshift]

We shouldn't be relying on international students for our economy to survive anyway.

[@brianawuor1824]

If you can't be profitable by providing goods and services to the population of this country, maybe you shouldn't be a business in THIS country.

[@peej91]

Exposed

[@patrickr8540]

I’m fine with the free market deciding their fate like any other business

[@trendingnews9671]

government should do something seriously on this matter

[@shauncameron8390]

LOL. Government is the cause of this matter.

[@stephenbrian11]

Perhaps Canadians need to have children. Income splitting would help.

[@Z1TFRIT]

So the inflation and this situation should continue? They are the only one making the money but Canadians are struggling, these schools don’t care about the situation , just their money , schools needs to adjust to the situation as well

[@lagvin719ify]

so what happened is some of the colleges over-projected by opening up new schools.

[@colinjohnston5734]

To be fair a northern mining schools operating a Indigenous midwife program in french at the same cost as their bread and butter mining and geological courses with like 5% of the enrolment probably should be cut.

[@johnconnor4749]

All from India

[@nephilimshammer9567]

Glass lighting at its finest. They are still making money just not what they used to. Oldest trick in the book companies say oh we are down this year. They still made profits just not above last years numbers

[@juanserrano5580]

As an honest opinion, this a very lucrative business for the government and schools. And behind the scenes, all these is pumping up the housing crisis making it most costly for everyone including the people we live, work and pay rent and taxes every single month and pay insane food prices....

[@Matt-YT]

It is actually NOT lucrative for governments. Yes they pay tuition, but governments need to pay for more healthcare, infrastructure...

[@TheCodsquallic]

I don’t care. lol

[@DD-xu3nl]

Hahaha get real. Maybe it’s time for medical schools and law schools in Canada to stop exploiting Canadians are open more spots.

[@chevyboomer62]

Good.

[@stephenbone4764]

SO NOW justen DOESENT LIKE INDEA ? EVERYONE KNOWS THIS WAS A WAY INTO CANADA FROM INDEA ! IS THIS CRAP BECAUSE justen WAS NOT RESPECTED WHEN HE PLAYED DRESS UP IN INDEA ?

[@luisfervillalpando]

Great

[@stephenbone4764]

$1.200,000,000.00 / 40,000,000 CANADIANs & GUESTS = $30,000.00/ PER CANADIAN , IF WE DEFUND THE C.B.C. NOW !