LS ROLLER ROCKERS VS CAM SWAP-WHICH ONE ADDS MORE POWER? HOW MUCH HP ARE 1.85 ROLLER ROCKERS WORTH?

DO ROLLER ROCKERS ADD POWER? FULL DYNO RESULTS ON LS ROLLER ROCKER UPGRADES. HOW MUCH POWER DO THEY ADD TO AN LS MOTOR? ARE ROLLER ROCKERS A GOOD UPGRADE? HOW DO ALUMINUM ROCKERS COMPARE TO A CAM SWAP? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM WORTH? CHECKOUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I RAN THREE DIFFERENT MOTORS, THE FIRST WITH A SIMPLE BTR TRUCK NORRIS CAM SWAP ON A 5.3L. TEST NUMBER 2 INVOLVED COMPARING A STOCK LM7 CAM TO AN LS7 CAM, THEN SHOWING THE RESULTS OF 1.8 ROCKERS ON THE LS7 CAM. THE FINAL TEST WAS TO DYNO TEST 1.85 ROCKERS VERSUS THE STOCK ROCKERS ON A 5.7L LS1, THEN COMPARE THE ROCKER GAINS TO A CAM SWAP (WITH STOCK ROCKERS).

[@PMDW53]

Having the 5.7 LS1, that rocker upgrade seems to be a solid choice for the price per HP/TQ and the ease of installation

[@lifeishard1211]

a lot of people will disagree as the cam swap is not difficult. when you do springs and rockers then you need to find a way to keep the valves from falling down. realistically, the cam swap is a day job and you get 50hp and maybe more depending on the cam while the rocker swap is half a day for only 15 hp.

[@PMDW53]

@@lifeishard1211 half day? More like an hour? Air line to the spark plug holes keeps the valve up. It's standard procedure.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Both are worth it, I am just doing BTR "Advanced" Rockers with bushings instead of roller bearings for durability in an Iron Block LS1 (By displacement it is 346/5.7L- formerly a 325/5.3L)

[@Ballen1182]

@@lifeishard1211 sounds better too.

[@lifeishard1211]

@@PMDW53 good for you. every job is one bolt away from becoming a much longer task.

[@bluecollarhotrods9781]

I'm a fan of the XR275 cam, I have it in my other truck - LQ4, TBSS intake, headers.

[@cleveland2286]

I would love to see a test like this on a 454 comparing the stock stamped steel gen4 rockers with full roller rockers. Roller rockers are also worth more than just the power they add when it comes to wear on the valves and guides.

[@SpecialAgentJamesAki]

I’m thinking the same. I wanna see stamped steel vs roller rockers on something older. For me that was the main point of going roller on my older motors, I don’t really care about the roller part itself more the reduction in how much that rocker is gonna flex.

[@SkBPerformance]

Howdy richard! Perfect time for this

[@exploringgodscountry]

Another interesting video! Thanks for making these. I am always curious what might have happened if i chose other parts :) i put a 6.0L in my tahoe... did some atypical valvettain parts... chewed up a trunion kit and went to yella terra ultralight 1.7:1. Same ratio as my factory but without fear of destroying more trunions. Roger Vinci helped me spec the build out, minus the johnson 2116 LSR lifters. Pretty fun little build! Would love to have it dyno tested but too cheap to spend $$ 😅 so I enjoy seeing what your results are. Dang you have done a few buids!

[@jakelords24]

Thank you for this info!

[@joemueller-zt9hn]

I run 1.8 rockers on my street/strip 6.0 swap g-body along with a summit cam and GM ls6 springs never had valve float issue. it's a low lift cam (.525) so with the 1.8 ratio puts it right on the cusp of the ls6 spring capability but it seems to work for me 🤷‍♂️. I did change the pedestal height to improve the geometry, which resulted in weird pushrod length but this combo wasn't planned, it's just stuff I had laying around for anyone wondering "why the hell would you do that" if I were to do it over I'd just get a properly spec'd cam with stock rockers.

[@richardholdener1727]

I guarantee you are floating the valves

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

It blows my mind how much time, effort, and $$$ you put into these videos...

[@aseelperformance8024]

hey boss love watching your videos I hope you can make videos on the 6.4 gen3 hemi with nitrous and boost and showing how the stock internals would do with those combinations thanks.

[@mohalostath]

great information thanks 🌷🌷🌷

[@corystansbury]

I was literally just thinking the other day, "It would be great to see Richard compare these." Specifically, my mind has been going to the C8 Vettes and the fact that cam swaps are awful, but roller rockers with a bit more ratio might be a bit of an upgrade without major surgery. With that said-- I can't say how the AFM lifters would respond, etc. As suspected--view is unlikely to be worth the climb.

[@jimh4167]

Greater rocker ratio with heaver valve speings

[@Smxsucks]

Done a 416ci ls3 with 660lift springs with monster heads, installed a set of 600$ roller rockers and it stopped making power at 5800rpms.. went back stock and it went to 7200rpm before it fell off

[@brettjacobs242]

I want to stop the video on the line charts, but when measurements are so close, it's hard to tell the difference between one run and another. You tell us where one run starts and ends, but I'd love to be able to see it in the comparison. Can your program make noticeably different colors between different HP lines and different Torque lines? Thx. Love the content.

[@richardholdener1727]

I can't change the run colors with what I have

[@brandonrohrer7914]

Chassie dyno tests the rocker. It's easier to change rockers then a cam

[@ihavethedocuments2580]

This is good info and I had heard from a good builder just roller rockers alone give no added hp.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Just reduce valvetrain friction loss

[@keithsmith9889]

Personally i never would have thought to do a rocker swap without a cam and springs

[@warriorzeke]

Several years ago I bought the same Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 275 that you ran on the LS1 in this video. I put it in a 5.3 though, and hopefully this summer I will finish getting the motor put in my project car. I saw what the LS1 in the video made, what do you think it will make in a stock 5.3? Thank you.

[@chadrudduck5019]

Didn't catch the email-- might be interested in one or two of those cams

[@richardholdener1727]

[e-mail]

[@MAD_BST]

I have a 2016 chevy ss that has a similar setup. stage 4 brt cam, 1.85 rockers, upgraded to the max spring TSP had at the time. kooks headers, Circle D torque converter. My only question is were you able to get the setup to work without upgrading to tall valve covers? I was told that you cannot run 1.85 rockers with the standard ls valve covers. Also this also confirms they kinda lied about my cars dyno numbers lol. i figured as much.

[@hourlywage]

I’ll take one of those cams.

[@richardholdener1727]

[e-mail]

[@sloganross91]

K24 ring gapped big bang please

[@ls_812]

Im interested in one of the camshafts.

[@richardholdener1727]

shoot me an email [e-mail]

[@mattgaul8336]

Wondering on texas speed chop monster cam and got beehive springs are rockers kinda the way to go for longevity 6.0 lq4

[@shadowopsairman1583]

If you hop the performance up, a durability upgrade would to be to replace the bearings in the stock rockers with bushings.

[@Boohas]

Richard - Have you ever tested the new dimpled pistons? (Like Golf ball dimples)

[@richardholdener1727]

no sir

[@davidreed6070]

Both+ boost

[@dennisoberreuter7425]

Richard, I would be interested in one of your cam shafts. 2006 L33 in 3900# Chevelle. Thanks

[@richardholdener1727]

send me an [e-mail]

[@brentonk461ismylostaccount]

The question is, Richard did you do a back to back power test "needle roller bearings vs the "bronze bush trunion upgrade no other changes Which made more power and the Pro's and Con's

[@richardholdener1727]

difference might not be measurable-that change isn't for power

[@richardholdener1727]

we have more questions like do you care about mpg or idle, what is the rest of the motor? how much power do you want, how high to do want to rev it?

[@WeldonAutomotive]

Remember, the rockers are only adding more power because they are adding valve duration. Just get the right cam and don’t hang bricks on your springs. And valvetrain.

[@richardholdener1727]

change in duration is minimal-change in lift is significant, change in friction, change in valve opening ramp, change in deflection-there are a couple of thing-also become necessary over given lift ranges and when using no powdered-metal guides

[@Scott_Buchanan]

Would some good aftermarket springs keep a 5.3 with 1.8’s from getting valve float? I may have to do head gaskets soon and the heads could stand a rebuild I’m sure

[@richardholdener1727]

you need spring upgrade with rockers

[@nevillehughart2574]

Richard, I have done a bunch of work on cars and trucks. But I have never changed heads or cam shaft. With this said I have a set of Vortex heads and a weiden intake for my 1979 K30 truck that I would like to install. Since I am going to do that I figure I should do cam and carburetor. Do you have any suggestions also will my stock push rods work.

[@richardholdener1727]

make sure intake matches heads

[@MrTurbocamaro]

Richard I am doing a lq9 with a truck Norris cam. I have stock 317 heads and also have ported and polished 706 heads. Which head would be best? It’s going in a daily truck that does some towing. My concern is compression. It will be tune with premium fuel. Not boosted

[@richardholdener1727]

The 706 heads will definitely make more power-but compression is high-will be okay on 91-93

[@wildjacksspeedshop4956]

Have you ever tested the power gains of installing 4.8 junkyard flat tops in a junkyard 5.3? I’ve seen several people do this mod but was curious of the gains…

[@richardholdener1727]

The L33 already has flat top pistons in it from the factory-see those tests

[@kriskoch1462]

Richard, Hey bud… I have a 5.3 l59, running truck Norris, AFR heads, would just a set of stock ratio full roller rockers be worth any power.. and on this engine does it help with longevity of valve guides? Also I need to ask which ones have you used that fit with same pushrod length already measured for stock rockers? Thank you SO MUCH for all you hard work! Kris

[@richardholdener1727]

leave the stock rockers

[@kriskoch1462]

Thanks man

[@svtnick5412]

What about both?

[@TheJMan1K]

Stupid question just got a bone stock 5.3 and a LS9 cam kit. Also have an old fast 90mm I got in a trade. Would I be able to use 1.8 rockers with the existing cam kit or recommend also stepping up in springs?

[@richardholdener1727]

definitely needs springs

[@benprihoda5903]

Do you have any videos on procharged inline 6 300 fords? I have one with a offy c series manifold, flat top pistons, mild “RV” cam, efi head, efi manifolds, gm style hei distributor. I’d love to see what it could do with a procharger, I’ve never seen someone do that!

[@richardholdener1727]

I will have some 300 stuff up this year-but nothing yet

[@benprihoda5903]

@@richardholdener1727 can’t wait to see it!

[@jasonhamlin8935]

What where the cams you mentioned? ​@@richardholdener1727

[@juniorjzx208]

Hey richard ive been watching you videos and have been indecisive on the cam. I have a 5.3 L33 with the flattop pistons and 243 heads milled .025 with hi ram intake and headers. What is going to make the best power and still clear the valves?

[@richardholdener1727]

if you look at the L33 series I have been doing, we ran as big as a Stage 4 LS3 cam from BTR and made 550 hp with ported and milled TFS heads and Trinity intake on a 5.3L

[@juniorjzx208]

@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the reply really helps. Although i see it says milled heads wont have proper piston to valve clearance did you have any issues with yours?

[@2010bigfathen]

How would running 1.8 rockers just on the exhaust side?

[@richardholdener1727]

why?

[@stevesalisbury6865]

Which has better low end hp and torque thev truck norris nsr cam or the Btr bigger cam

[@richardholdener1727]

Truck Norris

[@jasonhamlin8935]

What are the "cheaper cams"?

[@richardholdener1727]

I have Low Buck Truck Norris and 1 step bigger in stock-$169 shipped. Order through paypal using this email address if you are interested. make sure to include name, cam you want and shipping address

[@NotasocialmediaInfluencer]

I have A 2001 Silverado 5.3 with SUM-8701R1 camshaft and 1.7 roller rockers arm's and some ls6 beehive spring would i still have valve float?

[@richardholdener1727]

yes

[@NotasocialmediaInfluencer]

@@richardholdener1727 what kind of spring should I get should I get dual value springs

[@sunzoutgunzout8887]

Rich im trying to push this forged 6.0 with rectangle heads to 8000rpm i need a camshaft recommendation do u have a number?

[@richardholdener1727]

takl to btr

[@gamerghostghost6303]

Yo I got a question to all the ls expert i know this Question might be answer or asked a lot but I got a Chevy Silverado and it has a 4.8 and it’s some what build not really it has header gears 3.73 I think and a built transmission with a build stall and iam looking to run all motor and I was wondering what camshaft do you guys recommend?

[@richardholdener1727]

for doing what with the truck?

[@gamerghostghost6303]

@@richardholdener1727 am looking to go all motor for now but maybe in the future go boost but that won’t happens until another year or 2 so I would say all motor for now thanks for the replay👍

[@gamerghostghost6303]

@@richardholdener1727 yo bro bro I order the mad max camshaft but am wondering what pushrods to use cuz ig it doesn’t come with a kit just the camshaft

[@cartermackenzie1135]

Do a solid lifter LS

[@richardholdener1727]

no thnx

[@cartermackenzie1135]

@@richardholdener1727 why not

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

If you need to change springs no matter which one you choose, whu not install both and get an extra 50 something to 60 something more HP instead of 16 or 47?🤷

[@MWilk098]

You can change springs without pulling heads, timing cover, really, anything. Pretty quick job to change them out.

[@richardholdener1727]

you don't get both the power gains with rockers and cam-you get less or nothing when you add rockers to the cam

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

@@richardholdener1727 That Dyno test would of been really cool to see.😎👍

[@richardholdener1727]

Cam already has the added lift

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

@@richardholdener1727 I get it but the American way is that if more is better then to much is just right. Plus it would be nice to hear(see) what the dyno has to say about it.😎👍

[@johnwaldee6283]

Thanks for the video. Looking for the email address...... Did I miss it somewhere?

[@richardholdener1727]

[e-mail]

[@jimh4167]

????????? They go hand in hand...

[@richardholdener1727]

nope

[@jimh4167]

@@richardholdener1727 Maybe not in your world... Roller rockers are an automatic... And a better cam profile than factory if there is one. Is automatic... at least in my world

[@shadowopsairman1583]

​@@jimh4167 I'm replacing the bearing trunnions with bushing trunnions for durability and thats what is used in several racing applications as bearing cages can fall apart.

[@chriscaine1776]

​@shadowopsairman1583 very common thing people do, Factory Rockers with a TSP Trunnion upgrade. Speaks volumes to just how good the GM rockers can be with a variety of setups.