LS VS BIG BLOCK! WHICH STROKER MAKES MORE TORQUE? 6.0L VS 408 LS, 454 VS 489 BBC THEN 408 VS 489 !

[@Averagegunenthusiast]

The 408 definitely punches above its weight class but you can also see how hindered stock big blocks were. When you uncork them they turn into monsters.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Durability is the Gen 6/7 is about

[@sstevocamaro]

If he would have really modified the 454 it would have outshined the 408 without having to turn it into a 489

[@garyfujinami9911]

@@sstevocamaro that's what I'm thinking.

[@mikebell9166]

My stars! The stroker 454 with the upgrade cam was astounding! That thing would pull hard forever!

[@spambeanie2]

It's all in the cylinder heads man

[@HorsepowerHeadquarters454]

@@spambeanie2 cam doesn't play a part? I'm betting the 489 has a little flat hydro bump stick in it still .510 lift?😆 put a 750 solid roller in that 489. I have made peanut port heads perform like they were rec ports and that's with out porting and valves.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

yeah it finally has a torque curve like an iron head stock stroke 455 Pontiac, all the chevy needed was more cubes and aftermarket heads. The 555 finally managed what my NA pump gas Butler 467 makes with the same heads (same CNC program) Chief has on the Crow. I wonder what the torque will be like when I put a 535 under that top end. That 467's 650+ ftlbs from 3000rpm to 5000rpm is a lot of fun with a 3.08 gear... if it ever hooks. I have some 4.10s behind it now to keep from blowing the tires off.. well, it helps a little and the Th400s last longer. The peanut ports Playing With Horsepower mentioned come close to Pontiac velocity and torque. Bigger around is less important than longer when it comes to torque.

[@77chevy4x4]

@@spambeanie2 once we learn about a air pump … it’s about volume control Can’t breathe. Your engine got Covid problems BBC mark iV heads are the flow monsters

[@77chevy4x4]

@@SweatyFatGuy yeah torque.. only lasts for so much. Till horses are showing tail lights . Rpm will out do the Pontiac. Not many living hours in boats .. GM let Pontiac know about those tryouts. 🤷‍♂️🤔

[@1452-w3b]

People underestimate those old-school big block chevys

[@rustysausage69]

In every hotrodder theres a desire for a BIG inch BIG power big block. Issue is, only some people know that. Since LS became cliche yes they're underestimated, though theres a lot more big blocks making 2-4000hp than there are LS motors.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Erm the Gen 6 and Gen 7 are more LS than a Gen1-5 BBC

[@rustysausage69]

​@@shadowopsairman1583 gen 7 is the only big block that shares similar LS architecture and is loosely a culmination of the 2, gen 6 and prior are completely different.

[@rexwarren4497]

Yes they do

[@jamesearlcash7725]

I’m glad i have both, one 6.0 LQ4 and a 454 bbc but I’m not sure what year it is, it’s in from the 80s or 90s but I’ll figure it out when i pull the heads soon to send to the shop.

[@2005SilverSTi]

What the heck was that @11:22 I wasn't expecting that sound effect. 😄 Good numbers for that stroked 6.0. I love seeing all your comparison videos. Thanks Richard!

[@RealSteelStreet]

LSs are most definitely impressive inch for inch, BUT…Big Blocks are still the kings of 💪🏼

[@Cliff_Anderson]

love the videos...your database of dyno numbers and tests is second to none! I think a good metric to use would be torque production/cubic inch to get an idea of relative efficiency. And man, no one ever seems to talk about engine package weight. Some hp/weight ratios would also be very informative...love the data, keep it up.

[@JC-gw3yo]

Richard, you make it look so easy. We thank you for all your hard work. You hard work proved what we learned back in the 1970's when we ran small block and big block Chevys. We found that a well tuned small block was a match and a lot more practical on the street. The big blocks were gas burning pigs that were better suited to trucks

[@guyforlogos]

as usual Richard, your right! It's all about the cubes! Those 408 torque readings are outstanding and pretty low in the rev range.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Bore and stroke

[@ekitching]

Great video Richard, thank you for hard work and dedication to these engines. One thing you skipped over was a built 454. In David Vizard's big block book he built a 10:1 60 over 454 with edelbrock e street heads, a 268 flat tappet cam, Victor Jr manifold, 950 HP carb. The engine made just a hair under 600 horsepower and 600 torque. David claims the cam has to be on the correct LSA for maximum power, in this case it was on a 107 LCA. After the heads were ported and flat milled, the power climbed to 626 HP and 611 TQ.

[@richardholdener1727]

268 (at .050?) or 268 advertised?

[@ekitching]

The cam was ground using Lunati profiles. It is 268 advertised duration, 227 at .050, 588 lift intake, .555 for the exhaust. 1.8 rockers on the intake, 1.7 on the exhaust. LSA 107 deg.

[@dannytravis7118]

I liked the torque curve on the 489 that really flat and consistent

[@scottm7341]

The gen 6 96-99 7.4/454 have good large oval port heads (not peanut ports). But they have big 'lumps' in the intake runners by the valve guides, supposedly to enhance swirl. I spent probably 40 hours grinding on a pair of 99 heads. I took out the lumps so the intake runners now look like all other normal intakes, and per David Vizard, worked the runners to redirect flow away from the cylinder walls. On a SF600 flow bench, intake flow went from 245 cfm stock to 295 cfm at .600 lift with the stock 2.06 intake valves. That much flow should support roughly 600 hp. I also uniformed intake runner volume and chamber cc's, plus flat milled .020 to make 102 cc chambers. Can I send em to you for testing?

[@jakobsimmons9997]

I, for one would love to see these heads tested with a long runner intake and headers

[@michaelholmes7142]

I did the same thing to my gen 6 heads and got pretty much the same flow

[@colinallan2976]

I'm about to embark on a port job on my 99 L29. I would love to soon some pics of the intake port ramp removed. I am also heavily porting the stock upper and lower intakes, welded and opened up the TB to a 82mm LS type and machining a 2" spacer to add more length to the runners. Richards cam swap motivated me, I want to see how much torque I can gain without boost.

[@scottm7341]

@@colinallan2976 I have done that too - I welded up the outside of the lower manifold so I could grind enough to improve port match and line-of-sight flow path. I wish we could post pics here. Your 2 inch spacer goes between the mani halves? I was planning to weld a tube to the upper half to move the tb up and away from the valve covers, since I'm going to a roller, adjustable valvetrain.

[@colinallan2976]

@Scott M yes in between the upper and lower. I found a piece or 2"X 6"x36" 6061 flat bar that was reasonable price. I wanted to go 4" but the material was to much. I'm going to put a roller valve train in with the tall covers and that crazy TB position is a problem like you said.

[@jakestree1892]

Big blocks were choked way down for smog reasons but they really come to life with the right heads and cam

[@Gameplay-3D]

This does it for me. I was trying to decide on weather or not to build the 454 I have or switch to the ls. Bbc it is. Thanks for all the great info. Only thing I would like to see is that bbc on twin turbos. Lol

[@rustysausage69]

It actually warms the bottom of my heart reading this

[@roygrohler4871]

The BBC can't do it for a HRs straight on a boat

[@demarcusbody9437]

Just do both fam

[@408Satellite]

Great comparison in this and the first one. I have a 408 Magnum, it was a 5.9L. All of your videos offer cool and helpful knowledge.

[@clintonmaurer5758]

Wish you could get a cam for the LS with a tighter LSA once and push the torque down lower in the rpm band. That 408 would be great esp with the weight savings

[@brianlafollette7530]

Makes me want to go to the pull-a-part right now and find a gen-6 454

[@nicknolan2152]

If you happen upon an 8.1 vortec that’d be some neat content

[@Rosy_87]

I'm patiently waiting for Richard to make some videos on the 8.1L. I'm trying to decide if I want to stroke my 6.0L or if I should just swap it for an 8.1L. There are pros and cons both ways. Stock 8.1L vs Stroked 6.0L. My dad always says "there is no replacement for displacement"

[@demarcusbody9437]

@@Rosy_87 the 6.0 is the way to go it has a way better aftermarket for parts don’t get me wrong I love the 8.1 tons of pulling power aswell but unless it’s going in a 2500 or a bigger truck theirs no point that thing is a dog the 6.0 can go neck & neck with the 8.1 & still do It more efficiently

[@Rosy_87]

@@demarcusbody9437 Yeah it's for my 2002 2500HD. I pull 10 to 15,000 lbs monthly. Short trips the 6.0 is fine but long trips and in the hills above 10,000 lbs the 6.0 4L80E combo is adequate at best. A diesel would be great but they are expensive. This truck was my dad's he bought it new I washed it as a kid so it has some sentimental value. The Allison trans itself would be an upgrade alone with double overdrive, closer gear shifts and a lower reverse and 1st gear.

[@demarcusbody9437]

@@Rosy_87 yes I definitely understand what your saying in that case u should definitely keep the 6.0 if it has value to u of that sort also I agree with u diesels are expensive maintenance & fuel cost are way more than the gasser which u have that can do the same job the diesel can but thier are plenty of things u can do to beef up your 6.0 like a better gear ratio/cold air intake / supercharger / cam yunno stuff like that

[@joshgessinger4509]

Like to see HP TQ power to weight how much power to weight does 408 make compared to the 489. To me its all about power to weight. Big block probably still come out on top but definitely would close the gap. Great stuff as always Thanks Richard

[@duramax78]

At 11:00 I’ve never seen such a beautiful torque curve.

[@troysawyers9781]

One thing I think about seeing all these numbers; weight-to-power. Also, I’m thinking about packaging.

[@garyfujinami9911]

I bought a 408 stroker but haven't put it together yet. It's replacing the lq4 in my truck. Haven't decided on cams or heads yet. 1 thing I was curious about was a 454 w cam, etc. Using common logic, just the displacement difference compared to the 408 should out torque it. But, no trick FI intakes like the fast is available AND, getting the electronics figured out to work with the truck is what convinced me to stay with the ls. However, I love the old school big blocks. It is my daily driver which is why I didn't consider the 8.1.

[@JohnnyAnderson1]

great.... now I feel the need for a stroker in my 2500HD thanks Richard!

[@darrylrosales1366]

There is no replacement for displacement!

[@gumballer133]

I have a 516 big block in one of my cars. Afr 335s,714/714, 252/258@.050, 10.88cr, 2.125x 44in primaries, super Victor, Dominator. Made 739hp/697ft lbs on 2 different dynos. Super snappy and lots of fun

[@VegasRT500]

I am going to try and copy your combination. What kind of car is the engine in and have you taken it down the 1/4 mile or anything? Sounds awesome.

[@gumballer133]

@@VegasRT500 kzbin.infoEslT2Vh41ls?feature=share

[@gumballer133]

@Bazooka Joe plus it's mated to a T56 Magnum, car weighs 3360lbs without me. Never had it on the strip, but even with 305s in the rear car is going sideways at 100mph. Made 632fl lbs at the start of the Dyno at 3200rpms. It's a tire frying beast!

[@brandonnewman98]

@Richardholdener from what i hear is for the Gen 6 454 i hear a good thing for these is to do an RV Cam swap for more low end torque, im going to be swapping a gen 6 454 into my 99’ Express 1 ton in place of the Vortec 350

[@ozarkscarguy540]

I'd love to this mild modified comparison between LS, 454, and most importantly 366 or 427 tall deck BBC

[@brettgildersleeve9139]

Awesome video. Now I know its better and cheaper to build my BBC. I wonder how a LSX 454 cammed for low torque would compare to a built 454. 🤔 Then the winner vs a 12 valve cummins!

[@Dr_Xyzt]

I base my engine builds on the stock wrist pin location. BBC = 5.64" barrel based on 1.645" comp.height and 6.135 Rod. LS = 4.953" barrel based on 1.331" comp height and 6.098 Rod. -- Let's say you want to get an aftermarket block, and build an engine where the wrist pin is in the stock location. LSX block: 4.155" bore, 3.75" stroke, 6.2" rod, 406 cubic inches. BBC Bowtie: 4.5" bore, 4.25" stroke, 6.385" rod, 540 Cubic inches. (4.5/4.155)^2 = 17% more bore area = 17% more power, 30% more cubes, 30% less RPM needed. -- You can get a 4" stroke in the LSX, and a 4.375" stroke in the big block if you really want to, but the above setups are very durable. -- On that LS, you can run a 388 cube aluminum block and rev it 500 RPM higher while weighing a lot less. It's a sweet street motor on basic LS3 heads. -- On that 540, you can run PB1201's and make heinous power, or AFR 265's that will run just like the LS, and not require crazy RPM, plus you can run a numerically smaller differential ratio, which tends to be more efficient, plus you can get the simplicity of a Victor Jr. single plane. Not to mention, the 540 makes NA, what the LS makes supercharged. Plus.. a 250 shot at 3500 RPM is a holy experience.

[@richardholdener1727]

pin location?

[@davidcunningham00]

And just like that all the big blocks doubled in price

[@tragicnomadic]

all the data is here. youve done it all for me. I still dont know which to chose... LSA top end and supercharger for my 6.0. or build a stroker kit and spray it with nitrous.. or just go big block!.. so hard

[@christophermix6845]

What's your budget? lol Are you building a 6.0?

[@honcho714]

Can we see average power and torque numbers sampled every 100 rpm from 2000 to 6000 rpm ?

[@davidreed6070]

I know it's uncommon for an ls but, I wonder if you pulled the lobe separation angle back to 110, and set the intake Centerline to 106 if it would make more in mid range

[@trentdawg2832]

That 408 would be perfect for that nova project. ....I only gotta 370" lsa supercharged in mine but I wanna stroke it.....it's already bored for the 408

[@lukemorgan3368]

I figured a tune might help my air/fuel issue if one exists, I know the factory tune was meant for the factory muffler. Idk if the 02 sensors are going nuts because of an increase in muffler flow caused a decrease in overall exhaust velocity.

[@erichoward8463]

It would be great to see a comparison of similar cube LS and Big Block stokers say within 5 or 10 cubes, run with similar cams intakes, heads etc. That would hopefully show which is truly better. Of course there is the weight difference factor to consider between the two in a vehicle. If they ended up similar, power to weight might be the winner.

[@qball1of1]

Similar cubes I vote the LS would win, but with over 30 years of design advancements to lean on, it had better.

[@erichoward8463]

Exactly

[@Bricklinsv1970]

I doubt the Big Block will even feel the weight difference.

[@erichoward8463]

Right, but the difference would be if they made identical power (same power curve and all) that's when the weight would be a determining factor. Unless the application called for the extra weight say for traction in a snow plow rig or something to that affect.

[@Bricklinsv1970]

@@erichoward8463 I think the BBC is less affected by miniscule weight.

[@ChrisWaymer-yp8oc]

At some point I would like to see these projects in cars with converter swaps to c what they really do I'm not a dyno queen

[@MrScottt28]

Blessed are thee with stroker cranks

[@tlgperformance64]

I have a 2004 6.0 4x4 silverado 2500 HD Needs more power for towing than it has to make it through the mountians pulling a 26 ft 8000 lbs trailer . Do i need to sell it and get a diesel truck, or can i turbo , or supercharge it ? If i do , can it make the power and still be dependable ? Would the fuel economy improve, or get even worse ? Would it run hot? I have a 6" fabtech lift , 315/ 70 / 17 load range E tires , headers duel exhaust , and K&N intake tube and filter in the Isolation box . thanks for your input

[@richardholdener1727]

DIESEL IS IDEAL(BUT EXPENSIVE TO BUY), BUT BOOST CAN WORK AND HELPS A LOT

[@tlgperformance64]

@@richardholdener1727 being its for towing . If you boost a 6.0 , will the fuel economy improove orget even worse?

[@richardholdener1727]

fuel economy won't improve when under boost-you use more fuel

[@tlgperformance64]

@@richardholdener1727 thank you. Makes sense

[@joracer1]

What do you think about the old Olds and Buick all aluminum 215 cuin v8....or early range rover engines?

[@scottbennett3119]

Great video! How about LS5 vs. LS6 comparison! 🤔

[@calebevans4814]

How would 706 heads do with a 408 stroker for a towing build? With truck intake btw. What dish pistons and completion ratio would you recommend?

[@richardholdener1727]

I would pick other heads

[@calebevans4814]

@@richardholdener1727 what heads would you recommend

[@calebevans4814]

@@richardholdener1727 trying to do a budget build so I wanna keep truck intake and preferably a cheaper head. I’ve got 317 and 706 heads at the house. Maybe one of those or another cheap head would work well low end? Also would your low buck truck cam work good for this?

[@russvander863]

Can you provide more specs on the 555 you tested…cam p/n, compression ratio? Looks like it could be a good marine combo. Thanks!

[@richardholdener1727]

good question for live feed

[@charlielittle4756]

Hey Richard you should do a 427 tall deck block stroked to a 496. To see what kind of hp and tq numbers it would make. I have heard drag racers said they have used them to make crazy builds with crazy hp.

[@richardholdener1727]

much harder to get intakes for those-same power as a std deck 496

[@charlielittle4756]

But wouldn’t it have more torque being a tall deck block? This is what I’m being told but that’s why I’m coming to you to see if that’s a difference before I purchase this 427td block when I already have a 454 block. Any info would be great. Thanks Richard

[@jasonboyce9650]

Great content, Richard! Long time subscriber wondering if you could settle a bet? What is the weight/cost savings between the engines? My buddy thinks I’m nuts for planning a 6.0/SS2 swap in place of a mild 350. He’s telling me that BBC is the way to go, but I disagree. 66 impala will be a cruiser with a 5spd. Your thoughts?

[@jakobsimmons9997]

Soooo Richard, for future reference, when testing for torque production, I'd like to see these dyno pulls start around 1500rpm, instead of 2500.. I want to see off-idle performance, how's it gonna do taking off from a dead stop with, say, an 1800 stall coverter. Also at some point would like to see a comparison between the 4.3 gm v6 and 262 inline, also 292 chevrolet inline 6 vs ford 300 inline 6. Just some food for thought from one motorhead to another.

[@richardholdener1727]

you are never at full throttle at 1500 rpm

[@jsmcortina]

@@richardholdener1727 Never? I'm sure I could datalog me doing that !!

[@jakobsimmons9997]

@@nicknick2350 oh, I see. I understand now why they usually start higher up. Also Richard, my old ford farm hauler with a 300 I-6 sees full throttle at 1500 rpm on a regular basis, especially starting off with a loaded trailer, considering its not doing much over 3000-3500rpm...

[@madmod]

You should test a 403 Olds. I have one in a El camino

[@thatmand4542]

so wich one will be more safe on pump gas? will the big block be better cause of the more cubes than the ls,I'm still debating on it 😐

[@seanholley4601]

Richard. You should have ran the heads cam and intake on the stock 454ci motor. As many say BBC is still better than a LS. big difference in cubic inch here. Even better how about MAX effort LS 454 vs MAX effort ole school BBC 454

[@richardholdener1727]

can't run big cams on stock short blocks

[@otsenres1636]

My question is is it cost effective with the LQ to make that power with having to buy all the additional parts/change-over and tune for an older vehicle vs just installing/rebuilding a BBC making similar power.. I would love to see pricing for the average person in the future.

[@VegasRT500]

Definitely cheaper to build the BBC for sure.

[@cruisehunnid1080]

Definitely not

[@jsmcortina]

Agreed - once you start spending large sums of money, does the original engine really matter? Near-stock, low budget engines making big HP are fun.

[@Kincentc]

And then there's any stock 4.8/5.3/6.0 with a LSA blower posting 600+ ft pounds, and sipping fuel out of boost. Probably could get a blower and lid for about the cost of building a stroker. Boost IS the replacement for displacement.

[@stlchucko]

Boost is just a displacement multiplier.

[@Kincentc]

@@stlchucko multiplication is alright by me

[@chandlerlofton6536]

Unless you boost a stroker! Displacement plus boost is even better.

[@Jim_Lawrence]

@Richard Holdener Great vid! One thing about towing engines is fuel economy. I'm not sure if adding fuel consumption data would make a difference or not. Might be a cool idea for a video though. Even NA vs. Turbo! Efficiency is king right?

[@richardholdener1727]

Fuel economy is not achieved at WOT like these tests-the load would have to be simulated at part throttle

[@Jim_Lawrence]

@@richardholdener1727 like at a constant 300 lbs. ft steady load? Probably hard to do on a dyno. I daily a diesel anyway...🤷‍♂️

[@vettedoctor6667]

Turbo efficiency is great but you need to remember that as you add boost, you increase cylinder pressure and then you need to switch to 91 octane fuel which costs an additional 50 cents (or more) per gallon than the 87 octane. So, while you get better miles per gallon, the actual cost of fuel used for driving 1000 miles goes up significantly. Ultimately, turbo diesel with it's very high static compression and boost wins in low RPM torque and fuel efficiency.

[@Jim_Lawrence]

@@vettedoctor6667 not to mention diesel has more btu per gallon... Between energy density, and the lack of afr control necessary, that makes diesel king for towing economy. Remember, high afr ratio diesel runs cool, low afr is hot and smokey...

[@timothyholmes4647]

Love the 408 LS vs 489 BBC comparisons very interesting. I just finished a 408 LS n/a build with Trick Flow as cast 220 heads. Intake & exhaust guides narrowed, 11.3:1 compression Total Seal gapless rings with fast 102 intake and Howards cam 232/236 @ .050 112 LSA, 108 LCA .625/.625 lift. How would that cam compare to the 224 duration cam you used??? Would have been Great to see a 232, 234 or 236 @ .050 intake duration and no more than 238 @ .050 duration exhaust. Thanks for all your hard work with engine builds with dyno comparisons!!!

[@richardholdener1727]

the 232/236 cam did not work well in the 408

[@timothyholmes4647]

@@richardholdener1727 Can you clarify did not work well? Was a cam in that range used? And if so what was the cam specs? Thanks Richard H.

[@Martin750hp]

There is no replacement for DISPLACEMENT.... That means cubic in.

[@snickerdoodleduke]

Did you keep flat top pistons in the BBC after stroking it? I built a budget 489 with iron ovals that had 113 chambers. With a comp 274xe flat tappet, and Airgap intake, it ran 11.84 in a stock chevelle ( so 500ish HP). Just splurged on a solid roller (236/242, .642/.644) and a set of Edelbrock 100cc ovals. Sure hope it runs as good as your 489. Would I have been better off spending more on larger chamber AFR or Brodix? Limited with my flat top pistons. Id like to see a 10 second slip!

[@richardholdener1727]

we usually put small dome pistons (18-22 cc) pistons

[@duramax78]

Richard can you do a video on why hp an tq always crosses over at the same point.?

[@richardholdener1727]

BECAUSE OF THE FORMULA FOR HP=TQXRPM/5252

[@montycrain5783]

How about dividing the max Tourqe of the 408 by it’s displacement and the489 also to see which is more efficient per ci? And even finding out which has more area under the curve per ci ?

[@Affordablebath_remodel]

wow, tons of great info, much appreciated.

[@scottsigmon926]

Nothing beats big cubes in n/a form for torque

[@roygrohler4871]

Now what will it do with the Cady supercharger mounted on it.

[@jackdaniels2657]

Nothing beats big block power but lsx does make it fit in about every car on the street as for race car BBC as for the streets lsx

[@charlesbaranski1860]

I like all the comparison. Awesome info. Was wondering if you could do a l33 short block with 862 heads with the btr truck Norris with tbss intake and long tubes

[@richardholdener1727]

that is just a gen 4 5.3L with a cam swap

[@hjfcoco]

408 ls is the clear winner for me! Lighter and alot more fuel efficient 😎 Great comparison rich 👏

[@billhesse7836]

What ever happened to the right lsa boosting low to mid torque?? Kind of disappointed with peak screaming rpm wide lsa

[@richardholdener1727]

screaming rpm? (we only showed torque)

[@billhesse7836]

You have proved many times a tight lsa, no matter the duration is a torque enhancer. Was way enthused with the 5.3 tiny cam tight lsa. Big blocks work the same...?.?

[@jimrichey5919]

it would be nice to see a mopar 440, budget port job, against a budget 512 with 14:1 compression

[@rlld23]

What about mpg on both. How to improve the gas mileage on the 454?

[@Kincentc]

Mpg and big blocks don't go well together lol. Duramax!

[@Val_Killmore]

Well you could certainly run a pretty low gear like a 3.08if you had 600 ft lbs at the ready. Assuming your using a car and not a truck with much taller tires.

[@Kincentc]

@@Val_Killmore torque that low of a rpm ain't doing much in a car other than boiling tires.

[@davidcunningham00]

Edelbrock multi-port fuel injection, 4l80e, plus a gear vendor over drive, 4.55 gears

[@Kincentc]

@@davidcunningham00 well if the budget is that big, just go straight to a Duramax/Allison and 4.10s. better everything

[@aslacker]

Why not lower the LSA to 108-110 which should help the torque even more on the LS?

[@richardholdener1727]

YOU CAN

[@wsttxC10_454]

Hey Richard love the informative videos keep em coming brotha, any advice on how to get some more ponies out of a 5.7 Chevy TBI without swapping out to a carburetor some of us unfortunately live in commifornia where the state government hates motor modification?

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Get the 454 TBI or switch to TPI

[@richardholdener1727]

might be legal cams, headers for that motor

[@wsttxC10_454]

@@richardholdener1727 I have already done headers and exhaust plus 14 inch open element k&n filter, by chance do you know what aftermarket cam would work with the factory stock computer? Thanks for responding and any info you can provide me I appreciate it

[@bobboggs1348]

Richard, great content and excellent test options on your videos. Question: I have a factory aluminum 6.0 block, can it handle a 408 stoker mod without new sleeves?

[@richardholdener1727]

not a 408-but a 4.05 bore and 4.0 stroke

[@bobboggs1348]

@@richardholdener1727 Thank you for the response!

[@updragracer]

On the subject of rotating assembly mass can a smaller engine with the same power output as the bigger engine accelerate quicker ? 😎

[@rustysausage69]

Yes, just as the lighter car of 2 with identical engines will accelerate quicker.

[@richardholdener1727]

no-the power output and vehicle weight determine acceleration (not reciprocating weight)

[@updragracer]

I seem to remember a test somewhere where two identical engines one with a lighter rotating assembly would pull up through the gears quicker and dynoed with faster rpms per second . I dunno .

[@christophercrum4291]

Can you compare a 400 sbc to a 408 stroker??

[@richardholdener1727]

DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE

[@TbirdBoss24]

the engine designed for low speed torque has a flat torque band throughout a wider rpm range, but i wonder how this would change with VVT and in a towing application which rpm band shape is more usable

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Since the 454 and 496 had no vvt, only gen 4 ls and gen 5 LT do.

[@TbirdBoss24]

@@shadowopsairman1583 Preaching to the choir... I rephrased my question on the live chat, Richard answered it @36 min mark

[@derrick060881]

What if I would use the afr la3 mongo heads on a 408 with a good cam what you think it will make

[@musclebone7875]

489💪

[@peterlyons4389]

Big block is definitely more bang for your bucks $$$$$$$$$

[@scottk2342]

Honestly torque or horsepower built all out a big block will always win period ever heard of a lil thing called bore spacing

[@austindoud273]

Ah ok ill go get a bb caddilac cuz ya know those are so good lol

[@scottk2342]

@@austindoud273 This discussion is about a BBC in case you missed it just sayin!

[@austindoud273]

@@scottk2342 no you just said bore spacing

[@scottk2342]

@@austindoud273 ok I’ll bit let me explain bore spacing determines max bore size which determines valve sizing which determines throat diameter of the bowl which controls airflow through a cylinder head get it.Once one builds the engine to handle the power or torque without mechanical failure yes any big block will win period.You see with a Ls you are limited on bore spacing so at some point there are no more Cubic Inches to gain you can’t match the cubes of a big bore spacing big block with head flow.

[@ronromano2483]

Think of what the 489 would do with fuel injection instead or that carb! Yes there is no replacement for displacement!

[@roberthuston5508]

Just out of curiosity what is the wait difference between the two engines fully dressed ?

[@richardholdener1727]

no idea

[@Bricklinsv1970]

Doesnt matter with a BBC.

[@mr.know_it_all]

Why wouldn’t you decrease the lobe separation when you go bigger so you don’t kill the dynamic compression so much and we can see what less love separation with more duration makes torque and torque curve on the 408

[@richardholdener1727]

lots of people don't like the loss in idle quality

[@mr.know_it_all]

@@richardholdener1727 do you have video with any hp torque numbers with a 408 and an LS7 cam?

[@scotttimpany2845]

If you have a 454 already, there's no reason to ditch it in favor of an LS. A stroker crank and some aloominium heads on the rat makes it a monster.

[@demarcusbody9437]

& u think the same thing can’t be done with the 6.0 😂 it can do it way more efficiently aswell

[@scotttimpany2845]

@@demarcusbody9437 true. Some guys get all hung up about this engine versus that... bore versus stroke... rod ratio... dynamic compression numbers... and so on. The point is to think about the mods to apply to the current setup rather than recreating the wheel with a whole new setup. A peanut port BBC will make tons of torque even though the heads aren't the best. And remember, you start with more cubes than a 6.0 LS

[@demarcusbody9437]

@@scotttimpany2845 yes but In that case I’ll take a 6.0 over a 7.4 liter anytime yeah they make torque but Aftermarket is way better futher more I know for a fact I would not daily drive a big block anything atleast the 6.0 gas mileage would be manageable

[@scotttimpany2845]

@@demarcusbody9437 Fair enough!

[@michaelstoker6710]

@@demarcusbody9437 more aftermarket support for a ls. Dude bbc and sbc has two of the largest aftermarket support of any engine family followed by ls.

[@oscaroscar5336]

Would stock heads on the strokers produce near similar torque to say 4500.

[@richardholdener1727]

no

[@lildno2007]

Hey Richard. What’s making bigger cams loose torque?? Is it the lift. Or the duration? More HP IS GREAT. BUT WHY DOES IT LOOSE TRQ??

[@Torquemonster440]

Obviously, I'm not Richard, but hopefully this will help. The larger cams losing tq is a function of the longer duration. With the longer duration, the intake valve is held open longer (duration) which leads to bleeding off cylinder pressure at low speeds. A smaller duration cam will slam the intake valve closed sooner in the compression stroke allowing the piston to start building more cylinder pressure earlier vs. a long duration cam that holds the valve open longer allowing some pressure to escape back up into the intake.

[@lildno2007]

@@Torquemonster440 thanks. Great info. I will keep that in mind picking my next cam

[@jamesschneider3329]

Usually, it is the overlap. When both valves are open at low RPM, the exhaust isn't very good at scavenging everything out of the cylinder and sometimes goes back into the intake. As RPM increases, the exhaust gets more effective at scavenging the exhaust gasses out and at the same time creates a pull or vacuum on the intake port.

[@Torquemonster440]

@@lildno2007 you're welcome. Another common misconception is thinking cams are sized according to their lift, but cams are actually classified as "larger" or "smaller" based off their duration specs. How long (duration) those valves are held open is MUCH more critical to power production than how high they're lifted.

[@lildno2007]

@@Torquemonster440 yea I’m familiar with that.

[@ballingonabudgetlsbuilder5930]

What bolt pattern are LS engines metric or standard?

[@richardholdener1727]

bolt pattern for what? the fastners are all metric

[@ballingonabudgetlsbuilder5930]

@@richardholdener1727 it’s been a couple of years and still worked on a junkyard build all my tools are stolen so I wanted to know where I should start for 5.3 tear down couldn’t remember the bolt pattern

[@chandlerlofton6536]

This makes me very exited about the engine for my single cab! It’s a 403 at 11.6 comp with TEA 243s a 225/232 114+4 cam and a TBSS intake. I’m thinking it will make a nice little grocery getter pickup truck 😂

[@richardholdener1727]

Sounds great!

[@LTXwooshie]

Damn. Mine isn't far off. I have LQ4 .030 over. Stock crank, gen 4 rods, and forged Pistons for about 11.3:1. It has fully ported LS2/LS6 heads, 231/239 @.050 .641 .617 LSA 113+3. I'm hoping for 525-550 at the crank.

[@christophermix6845]

I'm doing a 398 10:1 comp with CNC LS3 heads, ported L92 intake 229/244 113+4 cam. Careful don't break the eggs 😉

[@LTXwooshie]

@@christophermix6845 That sounds badass. Mine is going in a Yukon Denali. What is your engine going in?

[@christophermix6845]

@@LTXwooshie that Yukon is going to scoot! Mines going in a 04 extended cab Silverado Z71. I'm hoping for 650 at the crank.

[@theidahomegarage8090]

What single turbo would you put on that 408 with the btr stage 2 cam???? Or that 220 cam you put in?? I really want to know! Something I dont have to rev passed 6500.

[@richardholdener1727]

S475/S480 FOR UP TO 1000 HP

[@trackliferacing3017]

Thanks for all the great info and content. Very helpful!!

[@richardholdener1727]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Jazz3006]

When comparing street combos, could you also present BSFC?

[@richardholdener1727]

why do you need bsfc at WOT?

[@Jazz3006]

@@richardholdener1727 I'm not asking for BSFC at WOT. But, if you guys are doing full calibrations on stuff anyway, adding a fuel flow meter is relatively inexpensive and wouldn't require any additional run time. Plus, helping people understand the difference between efficiency and just WOT conditions is always a good thing. After all, a street engine spends VERY little time at WOT, so why not make it good everywhere else?

[@LolBlopsPlayer]

Basically seems like if you have a 6.0 go eith that if you have a 454 run that if neither go with the 454

[@MizaelH1]

Do you know how much power does a 318 engine make with intake, headers and carb🤔and then heads and cam?

[@richardholdener1727]

depends on which heads, cam and intake you choose

[@SweatyFatGuy]

Its good to know I can get stock Pontiac like torque from a cammed 408 inch LS engine, since I have a 6.0 with a hurt bottom end sitting in a parted out truck right now. The guy I got it from ran it out of oil when cooler line broke, and wiped the bearings. Hopefully its not a cam bearing that is dead. That would be one hell of a truck engine, or tons of fun in the 98 Formula and I could keep the 2.73 gear, as long as I put it in a 9". That 408 would pull my trailers real nice in one of the C10s, and would probably scoot into the low 12s easily.

[@jjfig6166]

Richard have you done any tests with the factory GenVI EFI or know anyone that has?

[@richardholdener1727]

please see part 1 of this series (the last video I posted before this)

[@jjfig6166]

@@richardholdener1727 never fear I watched the first video. From what I have seen there are few people that will tune the factory ECU and even fewer are still marketing high perf parts for them. My 2000 dually has been in the family since new and was passed down to me when my dad bought a 2015. Would be interesting to see what the bolt on (cam, injectors, fuel pump) limits are of the factory intake and ECU. Looks like I will just keep driving this OBS until my other projects are done. Keep up the good work!

[@shilokirkman3791]

I’m building a 489 using stock heads forged internals looking for a good hydraulic roller cam? Any suggestions? Very much appreciated.

[@richardholdener1727]

what power and rpm level?

[@liljohn3877]

I'm a bit surprised the stroked big block only got to 489... do you have a dyno on a "build" Cady 500 to compare? Relatively light for a big block and was all the rage in the 90s :)

[@richardholdener1727]

cad is limited in cylinder head dept

[@roygrohler4871]

Looking to putin a 210 218 260in270 exhaust ,596 .593 what your take on this cam on this exact combo w 108 lsa torque is all we are after with the caddy supercharger and mcdaddy adapters

[@richardholdener1727]

on a 408?

[@roygrohler4871]

@@richardholdener1727 absolutely 408 with the cam I mentioned and the caddy supercharger

[@roygrohler4871]

Torque is all we want down low 1500 to 6400

[@roygrohler4871]

Why won't it work .

[@stephanouellet3673]

not all true bigger is better,you prove it , 408LS is better then 454BBC all the ways ;)

[@richardholdener1727]

408 not better then 454 in all ways

[@stephanouellet3673]

@@richardholdener1727 where it s not with 206 cam 500lbs at 3000 and 555 at 5700 for 454 with cam 480lbs at 3000 and peak 520 at 3700...

[@genemounce8302]

My brain likes the new color matched HP and TQ numbers you flash up when click'n on the peaks. LOL

[@member5488]

I love big blocks, but I've slowly come to accept that there just isn't a point to building one smaller than 572". Anything smaller than that and a Ebay turbo LS just seems better in every way.

[@mattcole5926]

I got a Tahoe weight is 5500 lbs …..Ls I believe cannot compete with it

[@user-ju3ns2cz1u]

what heads would you use to max low speed TQ on the 408?

[@richardholdener1727]

HOW LOW?

[@genemounce8302]

Hold the phone... Hows that 240 cam compare to the Comp 54-469-11 power wise? I thought the later cam was THE n/a "budget" build cam till now, lol.

[@richardholdener1727]

similar specs-similar power

[@karlsracing8422]

Need to do a 413 chrysler with 64 passenger car pistons.