"World on the Edge": the crisis of the Western liberal order | LSE Online Event

Our panel debate the crisis of the liberal order: is the cause of the crisis of liberalism itself, or does it have as much to do with Trump and the rise of populism as anything else?
🟡 This event is part of our Shaping the Post-COVID World initiative: #LSECOVID19
🔴 This event was streamed live on Facebook on 16 February 2021:
/ live
🔴 Find out about more of our upcoming events:
www.lse.ac.uk/Events
Speakers:
🔴 Professor G. John Ikenberry
🔴 Professor Beate Jahn
🔴 Professor John J. Mearsheimer
Chair:
🔴 Professor Michael Cox
ℹ️ More info:
www.lse.ac.uk/Events/2021/02/...

[@garretttedeman]

Wow, sometimes it's just amazing how Prof. Mearsheimer can simplify & explain such a range of massvie, complex topics. Great stuff. ...And let's not forget solid statements from Prof's Ikenberry & Beata Jahn as well.

[@deepaks3481]

John Mearsheimer, Sir, you are a rockstar. I bow my head to your clear,cogent articulation.

[@jairomarkus1498]

i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know a way to get back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot my login password. I appreciate any help you can give me.

[@vihaanayaan2186]

@Jairo Markus Instablaster ;)

[@jairomarkus1498]

@Vihaan Ayaan thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@ollyosborne3097]

He's Breitbart

[@arielzajac]

Mearsheimer is the only one there with a solid theory who can give simplified answers and provide important information for the future. The others just express their ideology and desires.

[@JaKommenterar]

Yes oversimplified and wrong answers.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Beata Jahn just brilliantly outlined our recapitulation of Rome's painful decline starting c. 70 CE and the attendant backwash reimporting of formerly exported lawless predation and violence. This "Rome is Falling" theme is circulating across and throughout several disciplines. We need a few different smaller scale and voluntary Plan-B's and Plan-C's. Fantastic stuff. I'm also a fan of Mr. Mearsheimer's. Once again, we need many smarter shoulders turning the Wheel of Dharma against the Wheel of Samsara. "My yoke is useful and my burden is light." - Matthew 11:30.

[@eoinhogan152]

Very good this, delighted to see these types of debates taking place.

[@platovid4]

I wish we define liberalism accurately and distinguish between the terms liberal and libertarian. There's a huge difference between the two, the first standing for a balance between individual rights and social needs. The second also often called neo-libaralism stands for extreme individualism that transcends social obligations. Neo liberalism sets itself as the enemy of the state and wishes to create an order with almost no government.

[@ericmiller254]

Neo liberals are not libertarians... Bill Clinton is a neo liberal. Ron Paul is not a neo liberal (although he isn't much of a libertarian either) Libertarians are yes anarcho capitalists. No one is referring to libertarians when they say neo liberal. Neo liberal in the geopolitical context refers to domination of the planet through a complex set of alliances as opposed to the neo conservatives who would push forward with a more American centric approach. Libertarians are almost uniformly isolationists. They adhere to the non aggression principal for domestic and foreign policy.

[@kshen7485]

In the west there is too much liberty, which most time is above the people’s social responsibilities. Nowadays 600k pandemic deaths in USA is the best proof.

[@kshen7485]

The “democracy” between the rich in the west is a fake democracy. It is one of western beautiful lies in its 200 years history.

[@alliesteamc3546]

To many if American political leaders had the courage and wisdom to respond not from a higher level of awareness rather than from ego and fear, the results will be better for the American people and domestic economy.

[@shifuugincii]

The problem is democracy is that in reality, it produces oligarchies In USA: - over70% of elected governors & senators are millionaires -90% of the people who won the elections are the ones who raised more money -Both Democrats & Republicans serve the same corporate master. The corporate donors give to each party equally

[@kimobrien.]

Abolish private property.

[@tanl7756]

Mearsheimer knows no Chinese history? The BRI is no imitation. The BRI is the old silk road that was interrupted 500 years ago. It was around at least 1 BC for sure and encompassed Africa, Asia and Europe. Maps of it exist at least back to 1 BC. When the Brits first showed up to the Qing Emperor, the Emperor spoke LATIN to the Brits because he thought that was the language "those people" spoke. This age old trade route was around for a LONG LONG time. China is just resuming what they used to be and used to have. They are NOT copying the US at all. No bombing anyone, no colonialism, none of that bs. What kicked off the upstart white nations was after Tamerlane destroyed the E to W trade route and Columbus was TRYING to get to CHINA to ask the Khan to resume it, not knowing that the Khan was gone and the Ming were in power. So he bumped into the Americas and that kicked in the upstart white nations and well, they really did wrong to the people they met. They did not copy the Chinese and that is unfortunate. Instead of peaceful economic ties they were arrogant brutes.

[@lepidoptera9337]

Just shows you how out of ideas the Chinese are... they can't do better than to resurrect things that stopped working 500 years ago. ;-)

[@yuanhaochue2889]

Prof. Mearshiemer, u have the apt perspectives on Eu on China..I.e mainly economics..

[@alliesteamc3546]

Challenge: what if US shift its perception of China as a competitor and potential adversary to a perception of China as a valuable ally and friend? How would that change China’s response? For example what is US under Biden say consistent with the One China policy, we can focus our attention and resources on domestic issues. We understand China’s behavior and reaction similar to US’s Monroe doctrine etc.

[@MichaelRNYC]

US politics require an adversary. US China policy has nothing to do with democratic freedoms or human rights. The US supports dictatorial regimes when it benefits companies that make campaign contributions, like OPEC, and allows poverty and the prison population to flourish. The US has ignored world interests for the benefit of private individuals who make sizable donations, like oil and chemical companies who poison the planet. The "liberal world order" may not have been designed by Capitalists, but it is their game and their rules, and they try to make changes with "rules" and guns when they need to.

[@myjaysee]

Absolutely brilliant discussion. Can I see it as an achievement of the western liberal order that I can watch this highly intellectually stimulating video for free? 🙌🏻

[@littlerichardthetruekingof1028]

Both make Jahn and Mearshimer make great points though I don't think social democracy is the answer.

[@jacobjorgenson9285]

All about bookshelves

[@chowchichang2922]

Ms John’s unmoving delivery of her piece was a stark contrast to the mercurial Proff Mershiemer …

[@kimobrien.]

At the beginning of the 20th Century the British Empire and Germany with Social Democracy lead the world in development. In just a few years the British Empire was replaced by American Imperialism and German Social Democracy by Russia and Chinese Stalinism. While China seeks to become another Imperialist power the US seeks to block it. Can we afford two more world wars to answer the question. The problem for world capitalism is the declining profit rates. in 1945 the US was the only industrial power left standing. The long retreat by labor in the US is over.

[@alliesteamc3546]

Many Americans prefer that US and China to get along so not to waste American tax dollars on unnecessary interference abroad when domestic issues and deficits need priority attention and resources.

[@theredkop36]

John point of view is like the last emperor dynasty of China. Still so proud. 2nd John, the strategy to bring down the 2nd your peer by the old strategy, which mean by " by all mean", no matter how dirty or how bad it look. If you win then is OK. If you lose, you will be the like the last emperor of China. Why no use new strategy " clean" and good and smart way. No matter win or lose, u still have the moral ground. And the next generation, can be proud of, and pick up from there.

[@duinay3]

Chinese style socialism seems to be working for China where as democracy in US seems to be falling apart lately so these people are way off

[@ericmiller254]

What makes you think it's working? They're an opaque society. And for 99% of the planet you should pray Americans remain the global hegemon. It will not end well for the rest of you to live under the Chinese Communist Party hahaha

[@sushilover5367]

@@ericmiller254 becuz the chinese will drop more bombs on others? i dont think so, lol.

[@ericmiller254]

@@sushilover5367 You think if they were as rich as us they wouldn't?

[@ErenYega747]

@@ericmiller254 they'd invest it in science and technology like they have already been doing with quantum computing and 5G, and they've already been using this movie to build infrastructure all over the world. When China became rich and when the US became rich have yielded vastly different approaches. It is not the case of asking if they were as rich why wouldn't they drop bombs. It is asking why as they're becoming rich they haven't dropped bombs but instead built infrastructure forgiven debts and advanced technology. And, why when the US had been on top, they waged wars. Recent history have already informed many global perceptions and judgements, and countries tell what they think based on the adjustments we can see them make. They can help in inferring what conclusions they made from the aforementioned things to think about regarding the US and China approach to becoming rich

[@alterego157]

John Ikenberry got spanked 😂

[@yttean98]

How Liberalism went wrong: My Humble take: Belief totally in the Neo-liberal idea in economics leading to huge inequality in both the US ad EU states, believe and implement internal and foreign policies that true liberal values with the capital 'L' i.e. freedom and, democracy for everyone everywhere in the world.. and a few more issues. Prof. J Mers. is right and hit the nail on the head. What's more important today, is that the current Sec of State, Mr. Blinken is like Prof. Iken., still believing in the spreading, defending, and saving Liberalism and Democracy in Taiwan, which is a Real Worry. It may lead to war again, in S. China Sea, Taiwan Strait in the East?

[@yttean98]

@@blueplanethand The worse is MANY Liberals are NOT willing to accept that and they keep on coming back e.g. Prof Iken. for one and Mr Blinken another and millions more out there esp. the Plutocrats and those who control the money.

[@suukinsin6771]

1:29 hours talk summarised in 4 words : Trump will b BACK ...

[@JSFuly]

Yep... Kind of right.

[@itsme-nt2lj]

as a southern black person , what Open Society in 1945 America not to mention present day?

[@GoyaGokou]

23:45

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

I'm not a "hawk." That said, let's consider. 1) China's miraculously inexpensive solar panels and now pint-sized and safe thorium reactors are changing the face of industry from Turkey to Mongolia. 2) Diminished petroleum relevance changes everything. 3) China is already closer to the cheaper oil of Uzbekistan and rarer mineral wealth of Afghanistan. 4) North Americans are 28K Watt humans, compared to EU's 14K Watt humans. 5) Our concerns with our values are understandable. But retooling North and South America might be a wise focus for brighter minds. We must decrease transit resource "costs." Our car-lusts were a mistake.

[@ollyosborne3097]

Mearsheimer is a realist, although his background is a work of fiction (not sure why), but the illusion of a culture of fear isn't one that helps the LIO evolve. We should embrace competition and balance across the institutionally led modern world. China, Russia and the US all rely heavily on the LIO, financially, from a consumer and producer perspective. Soft, Hard and Smart power were synergistically linked in delivering this symbiosis across the world. We need proaction and greater support to the international order, its not going away, current politics is like a fashion show - the institutions are the order.

[@soofisoof]

70 years Western Liberal Order !!?? include dictators like franco in Spain , salazar in Portegal plus many hegemony like Pinoche in chili and ,hundreds of dictators in South America Africa Middle east and Asia....Yes scaring of USSR and cu monist Chair mao made these strange groups!?

[@natbirchall1580]

The EU hopeless naive as always

[@lepidoptera9337]

But it still generates more GDP than China with less than one third of the people. China is hopelessly inefficient. :-)

[@americafirst7338]

In 1945 we did not kill enough of SS and nazi , been plotting every since then

[@lukehua5989]

Western post colony system.

[@shifuugincii]

How can it work when it's designed to exclude??.eg -to be the head of the world bank you have to be an American citizen - IMF same thing the head has to be American or European We have to move to a multilateral international order based on international law enforced under the United Nations where every nation is treated equally no matter their GDP or monetary contribution to the United Nations Out of hundreds of interventions by the West NOT EVEN 1 has ended in success but the political class never learns this lesson. You can't sit in your air-con office & think you know what's best for people on the other side of the world. Instead of the West, rather deludedly I might say, exporting democracy by violence, it should in fact bring business opportunities to the global south and completely ignore the political systems of those countries. After all the West doesn't care that Saudi Arabia is the number 1 oppressor in the world, its is only concerned about the human rights of countries' whom it deems as enemies, but ignores its own human rights violations and that of allies

[@conjugatemethod]

Laughable analysis by Mearshimer

[@jamesbay115]

Why is that?

[@jmolofsson]

Hopefully you liked Beate Jahn better! :)

[@yuanhaochue2889]

Mearsheimer is a US unipolar war hawk advocate for US hegemony.. but his personality is lovable...

[@ericmiller254]

It's great analysis, do you have a critique that we can laugh at? Because i'm sure it would be a joke

[@yuanhaochue2889]

@@ericmiller254 indeed, almost all Western China Watchers are laughable by the ways n playbook they interpret China as a threat...firstly a REJUVENATION of China with 5000 years of cultural continuity that has experienced 200 years of humiliation not a rising China.. Secondly they have used the same PLAYBOOK of cold war, embargo/restriction of technology sakes n investment, sanction. Containment. Encirculation by forming military alliance, slander n dis information while still ignoring a changing world dynamics with a more enlightened 6.5 billion world stake holders albeit most of the governments are still corruptible ( one pragmatic policy by China about non interference with domestic affairs on the other hand US led unipolar hegemony with Western Collectives will collude n support any rogue government whenever it serves their geopolitical agenda .history has shown cases such as Marcos of Philippines, Shah of Iran, South African Apartheid Regime, the most inhumane war crime by Japan that killed millions during world war 2 including 35 million Chinese... comfort women... yet Diauyu Island was given to Japan to manifest impasse between China n Japan, which has the emotional guilt, insecurity n paranoia with a rejuvenating China. ( Japan has to be the lapdog for US geopolitical hegemony..., currently Brazil, Saudi Arabia to fight Yemen, etc, etc... . The most laughable is the 5 Eyes( UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand , US ) Strategic Alliance derived from Anglo Saxon heritage of Imperialism, genocide, forced slavery, exploitation ..White Supremacy Egoism that has yet to institute sincere n equitable REPARATIONS TO THOSE STILL LIVING UNDER SYSTEMIC RACISM N MARGINALIZATION...( KEVIN RUDD, past PM of Australia ..his official apology to the aborigines is just a politically correct motives to try to subdue the guilt without any effective mitigation against systemic racism such as White Australia Policy, Which is still in place with more discreet maneuver. It takes a half baked Western Oriented Genes like me to laugh at geopolitical playbook by Western Collectives.. n it is not laughable that the number is growing ....