Trying to Understand the Saw Franchise: A Retrospective

[@LSMark]

Consider supporting the channel by checking out the LS Mark Figure before it's gone FOREVER - www.ownaj.com/products/ls-mark-non-specific-dog-figure Also I apologies for all the filters over the screen during the movies, I had to re-render this thing like 7 times just for it to get approved. ALSO ALSO, because I've had to re-edit this video over and over I might've made certain mistakes in editing like clips repeating due to me getting numb from copy/pasting clips in so much, so if you ever see that then lemme know and I'll remove it!

[@SlatyRamen]

hi lsd Mark

[@AnarchicIdealist]

Sorry but you lost the game!

[@Dinosaurianationazation]

Can’t we just let the Saw franchise fall into obscurity already?

[@sonicthesaiyanhog3566]

W man

[@juliangandara9552]

KZbin blocking this after It survived various copyright claims Mark: 🤬

[@paperverp]

The true horror of saw is how it got the video copyrighted like 80 times before it got released

[@vRyanXOXO]

he better heart this lmao

[@lucillelovesnegan2144]

KZbin: GAME OVER Mark: I speak for the dead

[@Elvusmiw]

Jump scared feeling

[@Pl-lineAs]

🥩🍤🍉🍪

[@bedtime7255]

lmao lionsgate out here hustling mark and yms smh

[@xSmythosx]

YES YOU UNDERSTAND YOU GET IT. i’ve always said that the second the apprentices get involved, the saw movies turn into a soap opera/tele-novella. the traps are there of course but once you get past that it’s just a drama and i LOVE IT

[@ForrestFox626]

I kind of wish it wasn't

[@cooliostarstache5474]

​@@ForrestFox626 Game over

[@TheFire1290]

It's a very poorly written drama, but it's fun to watch.

[@Dhampire1976]

​@@ForrestFox626skill issue

[@comicsans3537]

Same. I love that it became a grind house for the sake of grindhouse lmao

[@Marcedonia]

Jigsaw is the kind of guy who’d push you off a building and blame gravity.

[@edfreak9001]

"If you didn't deserve to die you would simply have floated due to the lack of sins weighing you down"

[@Naharu.]

They should've sprouted wings if they wanted to live, obviously

[@mathewginty6382]

​@@edfreak9001the Anubis method

[@alldayagain]

Or your lack of will to fly

[@fissure2132]

batman moment

[@shapesnatch1341]

"Remember that time you killed an insect when you were 4? In 90 seconds this machine will pulled your stomach out through your mouth. Good luck."

[@ifureaddisugay]

250 likes and no comments, let me fix that

[@notacat7127]

@@ifureaddisugayyou might need a better screwdriver

[@Halfhisunavailible]

666 likes is perfect for this comment

[@Niagaranobs]

Awww maaaan...

[@KumaPaws376]

DADADA DADA DA DADADA DADA

[@PastelOddity]

Just an Xavier fun fact: Frankie G--the guy who plays him--is described as literally the nicest guy ever, 100% golden retriever energy; and he always checked in and made sure everyone was okay.

[@juliakarczewski8875]

Then he's an excellent actor because Xavier is an ahole

[@brofistbro]

Wow! GREAT actor! Hated Xavier's character and the actor was actually really nice! Very Good Actor!

[@JiggingtonSawface]

@@brofistbrohe was the funniest character in that movie imo

[@Gungameguy11]

He is really good at acting as a horrible dick then

[@StoutShako]

Apparently the nicest people play the best villains, because actual terrible people don't want to let the mask slip, even for an acting role!

[@Nerdtendo6366]

The fact the actor for Rodrick gets the fucking coolest kill in the film is absolutely awesome and makes Saw VI 1000 times better

[@saucefreakystyle]

Devon Bostick

[@AbsoluteRatBastard]

Wimpy kid lore

[@kianmarcial8884]

Shotgun carousel is cooler than the acid needles

[@p-ruthless9005]

Hey. Rodrick rules

[@JHenry-nz7hy]

He also portrayed Ezio Auditore in the short film Assassin's Creed Lineage, which is an immediate prequel to Assassin's Creed II

[@MylingCyrus]

Billy needing his own seat on the plane to LA is the funniest thing. Imagine just him chillin on your flight beside you for 18 hours 😭

[@Obsidian_Enigma]

He doesn’t talk or snore loudly and never needs to pass you to use the bathroom (since he’s a puppet). Sounds like a good deal

[@Bonkpunktexe]

he's just a little guy. i think they should dress him like those cartoon kids with a propeller hat and big lollipop when he's on a flight.

[@ScirioBirdLover]

​@@Bonkpunktexe And he gives comically big licks to the lollipop sometimes

[@Bonkpunktexe]

@@ScirioBirdLover YES omgggg

[@darkest_thief]

@@Bonkpunktexeomg YES

[@grfrjiglstan]

A reviewer that normally covers cartoons and other kids' media reviewing these movies out of the blue is a very accurate representation of my TV viewing experience in the early 2000s. Syfy was only like four channels away from Nick where I grew up, and they had already made the decision that "science fiction" actually meant "literally any horror movie that has come out recently."

[@zachflag6506]

Dude same! Syfy was channel 43 and Nick was 50!

[@Jay-gurl]

Cartoon Network was 48 for me, Syfy was 52 and Nick was 47

[@Gookus_21]

Growing up Cartoon Network was 45, Nick was 53, Disney channel was 56, and Syfy was 58. That’s how I watched leprechaun and Freddy’s dead: the final nightmare when I was 8

[@CaptainArthanos]

@@zachflag6506is this location based? I’m in Arkansas and it was the same for me on Cox. 50 for Nick, 38 for CN, 42 for Disney

[@zachflag6506]

@@CaptainArthanos ehhh it was the local cable company for me. 48: Toon Disney (then Disney XD) 49: Disney Channel 50: Nick 51: Cartoon Network

[@Alleycat877]

I love how instead of getting a young actor to play young John Kramer they just made Tobin Bell wear a backwards cap and hoodie

[@razzlistic]

Pretty sure they actually invented time travel so they could get Bell from the past

[@foodafen7406]

It's like Creed from the US Office. To appear younger he just dyes his hair black.

[@codywoods8738]

"how do you do fellow kids?"

[@CallofFreaky]

That was actually hilarious. Why have it turned backwards? It looks so funny. He was dressed in the most “old guy’s young guy disguise” like gray tracksuit and backwards cap

[@C-Hubb]

Looking like B-Rabbit lol

[@butterspike680]

I love how in Saw X after John and the kid get off the trap the kid is just so happy like he wasn't about to drown in blood 5 minutes earlier. You know, the kind of event that would scar you forever and leave you completely traumatized. Mexican kids are just built different I think.

[@TheFatalcrest]

That was his third near Drowning in blood that month

[@rodrivazquez1590]

confirmo estamos hechos diferentes

[@MaxiemumKarnage]

​@@rodrivazquez1590 me when I speak in Spanish on an English channel jajajajaja Dragon Ball Z

[@brofistbro]

Hispanics for SURE built differently. My dad can watch seven (the movie) and just snort in scoffing or raise eyebrows in impressed manner by how "creative" the film was. While I stare in surprise, but EVENTUALLY 😅 get over the movie😂

[@Lissy_YT481]

​@@MaxiemumKarnageÑ

[@therealchoopo]

I’m afraid I’m gonna have to sit this one out, Mark. My mom said this might be too scary for me

[@JamJuice101]

Oh hey I know you, you’re that guy that talked about the lore in the Papa’s series of games.

[@LSMark]

understandable :(

[@ghostlessmusic2805]

my mom said they cuss a lot in this so I can’t watch it.

[@Donovarkhallum]

🍼

[@cihloun]

Tell your mom if you watch, your friend will be happy

[@Chubby_Runs]

The flammable jelly trap is even worse because what’s in the safe isn’t a key to the room, it’s the antidote to the poison that he was given, so there’s yet another layer to the trap

[@amanwithnoplans6592]

Kramer mustve especially hated that guy for whatever reason. Maybe cut him in line once.

[@doperagu8471]

Well if you remember they point out in that movie how Jigsaw always liked to have a "front row seat" so he would be watching the whole time. And presumably release him once he's gotten the antidote. Similar to Amanda and how Billy cycled in after she won her game and released her.

[@seventeenseventythirteen7465]

Not just that but there was off screen a giant tank of boiling water above him ready to flood the room after 3 minutes. Then, after that a bunch of dogs would fall into the water that were equipped to survive both hot water and lack of breathing under water, they would bite him to extra death. Then, multiple creepy large bugs would fall into water that'd also bite him. This man was a no good job dodger, he had it coming and then some.

[@Captain_Bottles]

@@seventeenseventythirteen7465 You forgot that the room would then fill with smelly GAS because the man hated smelly smells and creepy bugs.

[@tartra]

Would've been funny if there was no poison, like how the guy was faking being sick, and all he had to do was leave the room but stayed to get an antidote he didn't need

[@schmlif8839]

you know, a lot of people point to John's ideology and how it constantly contradicts as a bad thing, but I personally think it makes his character better. He's a goddamn serial killer, he is not a sane person. The fact there are contradictions just makes him feel like more of a believable character

[@itsyaboy2789]

Fr he's literally the perfect flawed villain

[@tslex6477]

people point out so often because of people who defend john kramer actions saying he's in the right and cheering him on, which is painfully large amount of people

[@Mathee]

@@tslex6477 For me it's that, and the fact that there are people who are supposed to be normal and sane in the movies who claims that Jigsaw is "technically not a serial killer" because he never directly kills anyone. And I mean... yes, he is. If you kidnap someone and knowingly put them in a situation where there's a high chance they'll die, and they die, then you killed them. If you put two people in a situation where only one of them can make it out alive, you killed the person who don't make it. And I think this is true from both a moral, philosophical, and legal perspective

[@NintendoMeister2260]

I think if you’re going to have a antagonist with a motive you should be able to make his motive understandable while also having very obvious flaws. You should understand the villain but not root for them.

[@Jennkath]

For sure, I like that his mindset is absolutely irrational and inconsistent because a lot of people who like movies like Saw are the type to idolize punitive justice and vigilante action like John does, so hopefully it would make them think twice about agreeing with his ideology (although I know there are still people who somehow think Jigsaw was right)

[@MasherCaster]

1:54:26 I love sleepy bucket head boy. I found it so cartoony and comical that he’s passed out the whole time just getting dragged. It for me was the highlight of the film

[@NintendoMeister2260]

It is taken down a bit by that guy being a secret apprentice and apparently the very 1st one John recruited despite him never being present not even in Saw X.

[@MasherCaster]

@@NintendoMeister2260 agreed but while he was untitled bucket man he was the best character

[@brandonstone1913]

I really dug X and thought it gave some really cool retroactive insight into the early traps/tests/games. - For one, the whole Carlos scenario made him /sort of/ protective about kids in his traps (see also: Daniel Matthews + Corbett Denlon). - I love that idea that X gave him the premise "it can never be personal" because things very nearly fell apart at the end for John, due in part to him being clouded by his need for justice/vengeance, even though he says it's not retribution. - I think the traps against the fake surgery team are meant to be very nearly impossible, just like the treatment they promised. - The other thing is I think the whole point of X is to humanize Jigsaw, like you said, but also to clearly point out the hypocrisy of his message. This is what the first Saw got right too. John is NOT standing on a moral high ground, though he sees himself this way. Partially due to his narcissism and also likely due to his tumor growth, he's disconnected from his own message. - "Epic bad luck" will be an eternal Saw meme thanks to that mid-credits scene haha

[@devofficialchannel]

There are also a few other scenes: - The scene where Cecilia stomped on Gabriela and killed her might also be the last straw for Amanda and why she's a lot more unfair than John when it comes to traps. Dr. Cecilia basically made Amanda lose faith in humanity. - In the mid-credits, Hoffman is smiling while helping John teach on of the scammers a lesson with how he treats the torture as a funny joke and his "epic bad luck" line compared to John's more serious attitude. So in a way, he giggles at the sight of traps.

[@smackedpickle]

The traps were literally designed to be failed at the last second, John is robbing them of all hope just like they did to him, the writers were definitely bringing it for X

[@k3t24]

Epic Bad Luck WAS A SO GOOFY ASS LINE

[@lckyminer_2256]

​​@@smackedpickle I do give the fake surgeons/doctors who are in the trap some criticism since they did waste 1 minute before gruesomely hack their bodies. Valentina and Mateo to be specific. Gabriella is slight.

[@HeathenRenegade]

What I'll never understand about The Final Chapter's blood being pink is that it's probably really easy (relatively speaking) to just make it red in post for the non-3D version. Color grading can do a lot, and there's really not much excuse for a movie from 2010 to just not bother with something so important.

[@C_hoffmanni]

The ridiculous color grading is a hallmark of saw, the reason why they didn’t adjust it for the dvd version astounds me.

[@infiniteworld3981]

Nah they going for the Danganronpa reference 😭

[@starlight6947]

I guess they just prefered to do danganronpa before danganronpa

[@NotAGoodUsername360]

​@@infiniteworld3981Danganronpa actually came the same year as Saw 3D, 2010.

[@henrynelson9301]

@@NotAGoodUsername360that’s the original Japanese release, which still came out a month after Saw 3D. technically it took 3+ years to get an official English localization in 2014

[@awkwardtaylor4725]

“Wholesome” is the best word to describe saw fandom, glad to see you enjoy this weird franchise as much as we do

[@70Lu07]

The darkest franchises often have the chilliest fandoms

[@sandystudios223]

The cutest/most wholesome franchises either have sweetest of fandoms (hello kitty, sailor moon) or the loud house fandom @@70Lu07

[@jackislegitterrified3689]

​@@70Lu07"Often" and not "always" due to...Fnaf

[@nexusconnection22]

​@@jackislegitterrified3689let's be real fnaf hasn't been truly dark in quite a while

[@jackislegitterrified3689]

@@nexusconnection22 While I would agree I do think the movie brings tye horror aspect, at least a little bit

[@gabby3036]

28:02 Speaking of Tobin Bell *being* Jigsaw, I saw somewhere (I think it was YMS) that the writers will sometimes go to him like, "How would Jigsaw reply to this line?" or whatever and Bell will help write the character. It's pretty awesome.

[@sophiecooper1824]

Yes, he's free to rewrite John's dialog cause he knows the character the best . I think he's been doing this since Saw 3

[@davidfairweather3301]

@@sophiecooper1824even in Saw II, he spoke about him and Donnie Wahlberg had 7 days to rehearse together and work out how they wanted to play the scenes. Donnie apparently was quite firm in making sure the writing of Eric was good and that he believed in the character. So him and Tobin essentially rewrote a lot of the dialogue so it worked for them and felt authentic.

[@sophiecooper1824]

​@@davidfairweather3301 that's awesome

[@BonnieFluff]

My favourite part of the Pain Train in Saw 3D is that Jill imagined Hoffman dropping a oneliner before murdering her.

[@theoverseer1775]

I love how Rodrick alone is exactly enough to make Saw 6 go past Saw 2 in how good it is, real shame the guy didn't come back but if he did we wouldn't get Diary of a Wimpy Kid so like, I ain't complaining

[@AngelleAnnie-cs1te]

Nah cause seeing freaking rodrick out of all ppl- gold

[@ShB-o8h]

If only the dotwk movies were made a few years later

[@yaboylou7967]

Let’s be honest tho, none of these movies can ever hold a candle to SpongeBob plays Saw. Truly a cinematic classic!

[@BinglesP]

Agree, I wish Red Spiky Hair Guy and Green Spiky Hair Guy were canon

[@Twinleaf_2623]

Only watched it once as a kid, never forgot about it. My brother and I were staying at my dad's house one weekend. It was late at night, we were in the same room huddled around one of his laptops in bed. Complete darkness, nothing but the glow of the laptop screen. We were surfing around KZbin after playing some Mario Flash games on Newgrounds and came across Spongebob plays Saw. Scarring for sure but our 9 year old eyes couldn't look away. All I'll say is Patrick's trap. If you know, you know.

[@WantedRecords5506]

Oh my god you unlock a childhood memory of mine wtf, why were there so many “SpongeBob in saw” cartoons

[@hauntedmalk]

What the hell is “SpongeBob plays Saw”

[@WantedRecords5506]

@@hauntedmalk it was shown in the video

[@connoryup574]

Mark finally being able to get his 2 and a half hour long Saw franchise video out? I call that epic good luck.

[@sprody]

1:06:27 "It's too dumb, yet... it's also kinda brilliant!" is a good summary of the Saw series as a whole.

[@sprody]

Runnerup goes to 1:16:50 "Fuck this movie! ...but I like it though."

[@rayvenkman2087]

Saw swings from gorefests (IV-V & 3D) to basically presenting philosophical conversations about human nature (I-III & VI) and Godfather Part IIing itself several times.

[@sapphiresplash]

Fun fact: the classroom trap was initially easier to escape from, in a sense. The chain in the jaw was originally in his tongue, but the prosthetics always looked weird, so they changed it. Ofc, the door thing was a thing in the draft, too, so it was always meant to be unescapable

[@Gibbypastrami]

1:28:32 “LOOK AT ME, when you’re killing me LOOK AT ME!!” I absolutely loved this guys performance, the whole carousel, agreed, beautifully done

[@InternetFanatic]

The Saw franchise is basically the FNAF of Classic Horror Movies as they both have -Convoluted Lore that doesn’t make a lot a sense when you think about for 5 10 seconds -Fan Service -Being Absurd in what’s possible in their respective universes -Having an endless amount of installments -Having its installments be enjoyable and good for the fans but literally no one else -A box that didn’t get open

[@GlobalsoftPirka]

Also starting as a one-off made on a shoestring budget as a passion project then just continuing to go and go…in addition to all you said?! It’s kind of a creepy coincidence, honestly.

[@AGrotesqueMess]

BRUH- That last one hit me like a truck you can't do that, but true tho

[@justanotherchannelwithauno7580]

-The original happens in one room

[@devofficialchannel]

Kinda helps that both Saw X and FNAF came out on the same month of October.

[@GlobalsoftPirka]

@@justanotherchannelwithauno7580 I just realized they also both have ‘soft reboots’ that signaled a major turning point (Jigsaw and Sister Location) and a weird spinoff everyone either loves or hates (Spiral and FNAF World). Also, FNAF started as a game and became a movie that was heavily worked on by the creator; Saw started as a movie and became a game that was heavily worked on by the creator(s). This is getting REALLY weird

[@amphibiarules4134]

Never expected mark to talk about a live action series of movies, and im happy about that

[@usmaanilyas8639]

He did talk about the Ted movies. But I guess that still has a connection to Family Guy

[@alexanderholguinurena8042]

He talked about the Alvin and the Chipmunks Movies years ago

[@Pundit07]

@@usmaanilyas8639 This. If anything, what’s unexpected is Mark talking about *this* live action series of all things since there’s no connection to animation, AFAIK

[@Genesis-XE]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Pundit07Also, that SAW is horror related as well. It doesn’t seem like a franchise he would discuss about

​@@Genesis-XEand FNaF?

[@paranoidlizard6338]

This franchise kind of feels convoluted for some of the same reasons Death Note feels convoluted, where like… you put two really smart people against eachother and give them a bunch of pawns and whatever, and the ways in which they try to get the other one have to become increasingly more complicated and wacky to keep up the tension and intrigue

[@mollywalker5790]

The only difference is that Death Note knew when to end (kinda)

[@paranoidlizard6338]

@@mollywalker5790 yeah i definitely get what you mean, death note is much more sort of an enclosed story. I know back when i watched it i really wished they had ended when [specific character] was murdered but it was also fun to watch the rest cause i had a friend who had already watched it that i could talk to about everything happening as i reacted to it

[@paulw858]

I'm about half an hour in and I have a couple things to point out: - Leigh Whannell didn't say goodbye to the franchise after the first movie. He is credited with co-writing SAW II, as he helped align it as a SAW movie. And in fact he wrote SAW III in its entirety. It's after THAT point that he went on to do other stuff, such as writing Dead Silence, reteaming with James Wan. - I don't know where you're getting the information that The Desperate's script was rejected for being too SAW-like. Darren's own blog details the timeline of events, and nothing is said about it being rejected. Rather, it's discussed how it was welcomed with open arms by Gregg Hoffman, one of the big three producers. - The people in the SAW II house were not injected with a poison. The nerve gas that was being pumped through the house was what was threatening their lives - John's cancer was originally colon cancer and then a brain tumor followed. He was not diagnosed with brain cancer as far as I am aware. - Not a correction but a small tidbit. It appears you watched the Director's Cut of SAW II, as that part that shows John eating cereal was not in the theatrical version. One of the commentaries talks about how it was removed. I think it was due to it taking away from the intensity of the scene or something, I don't quite remember. In case anyone reads this, I would actually recommend watching the theatrical versions of all the movies first. The unrated / director's cut ones add more blood, but they also sometimes add in elements that don't work very well, and they can make some awful changes. One of the more confounding changes is in SAW IV, the director's cut version just shows Hoffman standing behind Rigg at a certain point at the end, instead of showing clips of him undoing his restraints. It makes for a very confusing finale, and this has been corroborated by others that watched that version on their first viewing. Another thing is that, at least in the SAW II uncut version, all the added shots and moments have a different color grading / quality to the rest of the movie. That is very distracting for me, at least. And then they change a musical cue in the finale with Xavier and Daniel that I think comes off really odd. It doesn't fit well with the event that happens, especially compared to the way it worked in the theatrical version. There is a "cut" in the music that feels very choppy, too. - While Kevin Greutert was the editor on most of the SAW movies, he was not the editor on SAW VI or Spiral. So the entire series did not have the same editor, as you state. - Regarding the pronunciation of Obi's name, it's kind of funny. Jonas, the one that finds the letter with Obi's name on it, says "What the f is an Oh-bee." Then Obi says "Ah-bee... it's my name." And then on the tape, John says "Hello... oooh-bee." It's just a silly thing that makes me smile. They couldn't figure out how to pronounce his name I guess! - Shawnee Smith was pregnant during the shooting of SAW II, including the Needle Pit, but from what I remember the production crew did not know this. - While the needles in the Needle Pit were obviously fake, there was a box of real ones dropped in by accident, so they had to go through every single needle and make sure they found the real ones. Kind of life imitating art with them having to basically find needles in a haystack! And speaking of needles, I actually have one of the syringes used in that scene, as well as one of two screen-used Needle Pit keys! - The Razor Box was actually not meant for Addison. It was meant for Gus, the guy that got his eye shot out from the door. He was an embezzler, and the box trap was meant to signify having to "put his hand in the cookie jar one last time." Addison's trap was meant to be a waffle iron. The idea was that, since she is a sex worker, she needs to get rid of her good looks to get her antidote. She was supposed to press her face against a hot waffle iron to destroy her beauty. Thankfully, at least for me, they did not go that sexist route. The waffle iron idea was later repurposed for that knives trap for Cecil in SAW IV, from what I understand. - Seeing those lights turn on and realizing they were in the SAW bathroom was a mindblowing experience in the theater. Everyone was freaking out! - Awesome that you are covering the Scott Tibbs Documentary! Hoping you are also covering all the SAW in 60 seconds, SAW II in 60 seconds, SAW III in 60 seconds (I think that's a thing), and the interview they do with Billy the Puppet. I think that's on the SAW II special features. All right. I'll be watching in chunks. You bet I'll be back with some more stuff to talk about next time! Trust me, I could make this 100 times longer. I know pretty much all the tidbits from the commentaries, and there are a TON. I definitely recommend watching those, especially the ones with Darren Lynn Bousman as well as James Wan's and Leigh Whannell's. All of those commentaries are GOLD.

[@itsyaboy2789]

Jesus i respect your commitment to the series to do such in-depth fact checks on the video. Genuinely admirable (also having n the the syringes from the pit is fucking sick dude)

[@ztm999]

Saw X was such a home run for me personally, I watched them all on the SyFy channel as a kid and I had been dying to see an OG cannon Saw movie in theaters that felt like a damn Saw movie. I am so happy with how it turned out, the credits scene with Hoffman literally had me jump in the theater, I am not a loud moviegoer whatsoever. I really hope the reported 2 more movies is true, we need more Hoffman and Amanda.

[@cabecadeprego8772]

Saw is really keeping the formula of classic horror alive, starting great and slowly getting worst and worst by each new movie but also really funny that turns an actual great history into an ironic fun time

[@jamescarr1265]

They’re such good fun like especially seeing them in a packed cinema with other Saw fans!! The vibe and atmosphere is so good

[@kingdomcomesuperman3669]

Saw is up there with the classic Slashers like TCM, Halloween, F13th, Chucky and aNoES for a reason. Only ones to really go past getting worse phase I'd argue is Evil Dead and Scream at this point.

[@eggman3387]

COOKED

[@jamescarr1265]

@@kingdomcomesuperman3669 I really dislike the new Scream movies they’re so smug and overly self referential. The one from this year was a slight improvement but the under-utilised setting and plot armour was eye-rolling.

[@accidentalmadness1708]

They get worse but i would argue they never actually get bad. The traps may get a bit ridiculous as time goes on (not to say there isn’t some great one) but the main story about John and his apprentices is just so fun.

[@VibingJon]

I always get worried whenever I see someone talk about the Saw franchise as I feel like a lot of the time people miss the point of why these films are SO entertaining, so this video really felt like a breath of fresh air. Great video!

[@ianbyrne465]

I've always been a fan of Saw 1 John. A psychotic killer who buys into his own bs enough that he ignores his own hipocrisy. I like when he puts people in traps for dumb shit (cutting your wrists once, possibly cheating on your wife, etc. EDIT: Just remembered the guy in the flammable jelly trap was put there because he “faked being sick to get off work”) Because it makes sense for a bitter, insane man to see this as "well, you clearly don't appreciate your life" The traps are always personal in some way, even though John would rather act like he's some impartial arbiter of justice. The time to complete them is always ridiculously short so that the victims won't survive, because he doesn't really want them to survive. The man seriously believes that eacaping his trap will "instantly rehabilitate" someone, whoch couldn't be further from the truth. Also, in Saw 1, he just straight up tries to slice David Tapp's throat. Like, theres no, "Oh, I just put you in the murder trap, you didn't have the will to live, ao I technically didn't kill you." Nah, man just tried to directly kill someone. Love that guy, hes such a prick

[@brickch4pel]

same fr

[@cardprophecy97]

Don’t forget that he gets mad at Amanda for not putting the key on Adam correctly

[@jamescarr1265]

Yeah but even in the first one they try to act like he’s right when Lawrence says he never technically killed anyone.

[@brickch4pel]

I think that quote was moreso to deliver exposition that he takes an indirect approach to murder, just written a bit wonky; but I don't think they're trying to glorify it in a particular way, especially considering a central point of the film is that he's using collateral damage to reinforce his games (Lawrence's family)

[@mariar.273]

Highly recommend Vivian Strange’s recent Saw retrospective/ranking if you’d like someone expanding on this reading and analyzing it throughout the franchise!

[@bioticjedi3864]

My headcannon is that John's brain tumor gave him super intelligence and foresight so he was able to pre-empt and predict everything in the franchise xD

[@rayvenkman2087]

So, he's Gerald Robotnik?

[@JoobyMcGee]

The most cursed thing about this video is the sheer amount of Mario party music in the background. That fits so morbidly well.

[@Manectrix2000]

It’s incredibly fitting for how silly the tone difference is.

[@ConnerTheWaffle]

It warms my heart finding someone else who unironically loves these movies

[@BinglesP]

Hello Connor! Nice to see that you watch Mark's content.

[@vapor404]

the saw parody in scary movie is the hardest i laughed this year shaq and dr phil are a oddly perfect match

[@kalonSignal]

Dr Phil being hit with a cement block like 3 times gets me

[@infinitescarf3736]

44:54 this is a really funny point to me cause John also lost a kid, kinda? And he reacted by… killing the guy “responsible.” So he obviously didn’t take his child’s death very well either.

[@davidfairweather3301]

True but he didn’t actually kill Cecil. Cecil escaped his trap and Cecil tried to attack him and John just moved out the way and Cecil felt into the cage of barbed wire.

[@thefreelancequeen]

Accepting Saw as camp is key to happiness

[@rayvenkman2087]

Campy, gruesome, nillistic and thought-provoking. The story of Saw.

[@epic_toon]

I've always been terrified of the saw movies (the concept just scares me a whole lot) but hearing all the silly jokes you make and hearing the wacky yet pretty intriguing story has made me a bit less disturbed by the franchise. Maybe I'll check it out one day when I'm not easily frightened. Thanks Mark!! 👍❤️

[@VampireLestatTheBratPrince]

Saw is the horror movie I watched and had nightmares of for a week. I was scared of everything even animated horror back then and never thought I’d like horror. Fast forward to now and not only do I love horror, but saw is my favourite franchise. I’d recommend CZsWorld he has a breakdown of each movie and each character if you’re interested in the story. You can just listen and don’t have to watch anything. I don’t there’s much to see though with how KZbin is with censoring gore.

[@wdjkncvgdfsbyt34jgvi]

I really recommend it! Im a huge horror fan but i used to not be able to stomach any at all, catching saw on TV was what turned me- they have basically no jump scares (the worst part of horror for me! And without the traps are basically just very convoluted thriller dramas, with like the drama level of a cheesy soap opera; and they are so ridiculous its more funny than scary While the gore is the “worst” aspect its soo ott and blood looks practically neon that its easy to be like its ok this is just a movie If u watch them i hope you like them!

[@specialeffox]

The Saw movies are genuinely my favorite movies! My partner doesn't like gore so much so when she decided to watch them with me, we skipped through the gory traps and they were OBSESSED with the storyline! They are far from perfect and many parts aged poorly, but these movies are so easily consumable and fun!

[@bZman]

Most saw traps have me preferring to light myself on fire rather than go through them. The pig guts one alone id die from puking to death, my gag reflex would kill me from most saw traps

[@Sub_3690]

I didn’t expect Mark to make a video about the Saw franchise, but I’m down for it.

[@cammyman32]

Me too. I thought he just liked animation, video games, and other non-live-action stuff, but I guess I was wrong! And after watching this video, I’m glad for that.

[@starlwrd]

He talking about the traps while wii resorts music plays in the background is the best moment, honestly

[@evemitchell887]

ive been a Major saw fan for like 3 years at this point and even i get confused on the timeline and what traps happen in each movie. i love it sm.

[@BugsyFoga]

It was certainly nice of Lionsgate to give Mark the real life saw trap of try to release this saw Retrospective without a huge amount of copyright strikes 😁👌

[@BinglesP]

It's a good thing Mark usually doesn't show his foot whenever the screen cuts to him, so his future reviews won't look so weird once he gets out of it!

[@kingbaco1233]

My mom hated horror movies but we got her to see saw X and she absolutely loved it! It was an amazing movie to get some new people into the series! Now we have been watching 1 saw movie once a week every week (for the most part)

[@JonCrs10]

Almost like X realized "Hey, shouldn't the victims be cartoonishly evil if you're supposed to enjoy seeing them be put in death traps?" Too many older victims were basically like putting a McDonalds employee through hell because he snuck cheese slices at work.

[@katc2040]

​@JonCrs10 right?? I had to stop watching at the 3rd movie because at that point, they tortured someone that was COMPLETELY INNOCENT IN EVERY WAY, AND SHE WON BUT STILL DIED!! I know that's the whole point of the movie, but it's just not enjoyable to watch. I enjoyed watching like the horrible dude in the 2nd movie die. They need to be at least kinda unlikable

[@UmQasaann]

My mom love the saw movies

[@doperagu8471]

I somehow convinced my dad (never heard of Saw and hates horror) to see Saw X with me and he also thought it was pretty good! He wasn't as about the gore but he had a good time and now we can't wait to see Saw 11 together!

[@nathanbarrett4402]

​@@katc2040Thats the lady detective in the Angel trap right? Its kinda ment to piss you off as *Spoiler* The trap was sabotaged by Jigsaws apprentice Amanda who has a crueler view of the people in the traps thinking they should all die painfully. It's def meant to get you to really dislike Amanda and by extension Jigsaw as he enables her.

[@feartheoldblood7222]

Its crazy that liongate goes out of their way to copyright videos like this... if anything these types of videos make me want to watch the series over again. Sorry for the struggles Mark. Great video and just in time for 2 weeks after Halloween!

[@uchytjes10]

It's because they know everyone wants to see the crazy traps. Because of that, they heavily copyright strike everything that has them to get some money out of it.

[@Jiihariial]

+

[@Terminal_Apotos]

I’ve seen tons of videos going over the Saw Franchise but this video is the only one that actually helped me understand what was going on

[@matthewmckenzie1404]

lmao the way mark started saying "all he had to do" for the saw traps made me laugh XD

[@JYAF]

I used to work at a movie theater and when Spiral came out, there was also a showing of the Spirit movie, a horse girl movie for kids. I was the ticket guy that'd show you which theater to go to, my two most noticeable customers for that screening was a special needs child and a caretaker, along with a daughter and mother. It instead played the opening to Spiral by accident instead of Spirit.

[@justyumi4410]

Isn't Spirit a movie from 2002? Yeah I know some theatres have "Fathom Events." for decade old films. Also aware that surprisingly, Spirit of all things got a Netflix series before Shrek.

[@vosshawk]

I believe they were talking about Spirit Untamed. It came out pretty much around the time that Spirals theatrical run was ending.

[@JYAF]

@@vosshawk Yeah that's the one, just didn't know the name

[@smollmoth6376]

It's weird how much my stomach is turning from recaps of the films and its not even the gore, well maybe a little bit, but it's more about these horrible fates innocent people are going through.

[@Coconut_Prrson]

I kinda fucking hate how the films don't seem self aware enough about how much a psychopath jigsaw is

[@FedoraKirb]

I realized this when watching the original “Scream.” It’s a great movie, but it also made me realize the real reason why I generally don’t like horror-not just because I get scared easily, but because even if the protagonists DO catch the killer… that’s still a TON of innocent people dead, not the mention anyone who knew the victims being DEEPLY traumatized, especially if they witness it themselves. More than scare me, horror movies make me _sad._

[@cooliostarstache5474]

But have you learned your lesson? Do you appreciate your life, are you grateful for your blessings? Do you love your family and friends, or do you waste your life? That's why I love the Saw movies, despite how much I used to be afraid of them. I went through a health scare and had to think about my own life and death. Something like Hostel and The Collector is just torture porn and filth, but Saw is profound and personal to me, which I never expected

[@zello4075]

@@FedoraKirbare people this soft nowadays? none of this people exist what 😭😭😭

[@FedoraKirb]

@@zello4075 …I misread your comment for a bit lol Like, yeah, it’s a movie. They’re not real. But… I tend to get easily immersed in a movie, and at the end it bums me out. It sounds silly, but I can’t help but wonder, “if this happened in my town, these victims could be people I know.” Sorry for… feeling emotions at a movie, ig. Why is sadness any less valid of an emotion to feel from a movie than fear?

[@SnakePit6517]

Seeing Mark make a comprehensive video on the Saw franchise, the ultimate horror soap opera, makes me excited for him to cover other things outside of animation and video games in the future. It would be awesome if he covered other horror franchises or just other media franchises in general and share his opinion. I would be down with that.

[@Fish_1914]

Agree

[@mjthomasjohansen]

Late but I’ve had a really long week in work, meaning I’ve neglected housework and myself. Long interesting breakdowns like this keep me occupied and motivated, house cleaned, meals prepped, hair washed and plants watered. Thank you for putting so much effort into these ❤

[@dukeyxxyz]

I did the exact same thing. Always told myself I wasn't ever going to watch the saw movies. In September last year, curiosity got the better of me and I watched the first one and loved it and within a week I watched all of them pretty much back to back and just in time for Saw X. They may not be the greatest films of all time but they are way too fun for me not to love them.

[@a_ninja2376]

I feel like the more this video got pushed because of copyright the more it made me want to watch it, and I’ve never seen a saw movie. Thanks lionsgate!

[@nonbinarysunset555]

Gotta say I keep hearing the newest Saw is genuinely fantastic so here's hoping they keep that energy.

[@doperagu8471]

It was! Such a fun entry and definitely a decent return to form for the franchise. I read it's already been green lit for Saw 11, so here's to hoping it's just as good and also focuses heavily on John Kramer. Tobin Bell is already in his 80s so we gotta take advantage while we still can! His love and dedication for the character and the franchise is palpable. He's a horror treasure for sure, and will absolutely go down as one of the greats in the genre.

[@topcat59]

Honestly I really hate that jigsaw never really gets any person to redeem themselves once they survive the traps he set for them and those that do survive never get focused on or how these events effected their lives.🐱

[@doperagu8471]

That's because his methods don't work. He's delusional. He had a sort of God complex it seems where its always that the people fail and not that his methods don't work. He had a moment of clarity after surviving his car accident and thought he could replicate this effect with others. Even those he may have deemed a "success" like Amanda didn't actually redeem themselves. She was still self harming and completely volatile emotionally up to her death. Don't get me wrong though, John Kramer is probably my favorite horror "villain" of all time. I even wrote a paper about him in college back in 2008 or 2009 (so well before we had all the information we have about him now). Got an A on the paper too!

[@doperagu8471]

But I do agree that we got more of a glimpse into what happens to some of the survivors down the line. We got a tiny bit of this in Saw 7 when we saw the support group meeting, but that didn't give us much. It did let us know how prolific Jigsaw really was with his games though, as we saw lots of faces in the support group that were unfamiliar (although I guess it could have been family members of those that failed their tests?)

[@GenericProtagonist118]

The guy's a loony who ends up punishing the downtrodden and depressed by putting them through hell and/or giving them the worst survives guilt possible. Then those who survive basically get added to his psycho deathtrap cult. Sure what happened to him was horrible and I wouldn't wish that on anybody but SOMEHOW his methodologies made it look like an overreaction. Him making his victims participate is also even worse than if he killed them directly which makes him a manipulative b*stard too.

[@y.9645]

I think that's the point that no matter what he thinks he is a murderer and a killer and it's obvious his methods don't work. He's pretty delusional and thinks he's holler than thou and just sees everyone as prawns. A main example of that is his dream sequence of the eyeball trap where the janitor fails. He doesn't even imagine him winning, just death.

[@issanghessi5661]

i actually watched saw x in theaters about a month after it came out and there was a pretty big audience, its nice to see that saw is becoming popular again! my favorite part of watching it in theaters was valentinas trap, i was sitting between my best friend and a stranger, and while she was sawing off her leg we were all flinching and holding hands 😭 paulette hernandez did a really great job as valentina!

[@Joeisonavacationfaraway]

The adrenaline rush I got when you mentioned leigh whannell as if I didn't click on this vid knowing full well he was gonna be mentioned

[@LazySamurai22]

mark reviewing the saw franchise is like him reviewing a anime. its something you'd wouldn't expect

[@Whatamisupposedtotypehere]

Shit

[@Hambo325]

Nah anime is a matter of time

[@LazySamurai22]

@@Hambo325 i doubt it. he mentioned in his smosh video that anime is not really popular in Ireland. him saying that people got the shit beat out of them. its possible, but i don't think mark a guy who likes anime. so i doubt it.

[@kelseygolden5175]

i’m so insanely glad that Mark is covering my favorite horror franchise, this channel is literally a compilation of all my hyperfixations and it’s great

[@skittlezkawaii5604]

I'm not a fan of gore, and I don't know much about the saw franchise, but I'll be damned if there isn't something about listening to Mark talk that inspires me to write my english final. I mean, if this man can sit down and write scripts ranking movies and shows, I can write 7 pages of words. thank you for the help Mark

[@voidslasher1012]

2:42 honestly I agree even the horrible ones saw has been I would personally say very consistent. I mean even the bad ones have something in them that can make them bearable and when an entry is good. It hits so well cause usually the good entries are just amazing. But I am happy with the series currently and can’t wait to see what comes next.

[@ericf.a8623]

I'm not into horror movies or gore, but this video became one of my favorites and actually got me invested in the convoluted story of these movies. You narrating the whole thing was a lot of fun, minus the jigsaw and spiral part, I guess it made me feel like a Saw fan, because I was just wanting for the fun part to return. Thankfully the main killer of the franchise helping to fix the bike of a random kid in Saw X made up for that.

[@coolpool4191]

FINALLY AFTER ALL THE DELAYS, thank you mark 👍

[@PrinceDinoboy]

I may hate the gore, but I love watching it for the lore. That is the pinnacle of my opinion of this series.

[@MrsLovettfan21]

It’s like a soap opera to me at this point lmaoo

[@RandomDragonEXE]

Lore > gore lol

[@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470]

​@@MrsLovettfan21Yeah from like the fourth movie onwards the lore became spaghetti in terms of presentation

[@davemac9563]

It’s the opposite. Because the series is a horribly written mess past the first movie that the gore is the only saving grace with these movies

[@leob4403]

​@@davemac9563nah, the writing is far better than Marvel and DC

[@JAMTC10]

I love how Mark went from talking about Nick All Star Brawl in his last video..... then to Saw in the next, can't say I saw this coming but I welcome it

[@stantonmccain7725]

it's crazy how you nail exactly how it feels to watch and enjoy these movies

[@magical571]

Saw movies are my guilty pleasure. And i'm here for this retrospective, love it

[@Raf8347]

It's honestly refreshing seeing LS Mark doing a video based on stuff like this that we don't expect him make videos of!

[@___Ryan___]

I’ve just got into these films for Halloween. But they are so stupid at times and try to be so much and there’s so many movies that I’m like “I ain’t watching all at” so this is a heavenly video.

[@davidfairweather3301]

Yeh tbh us in the fandom are very honest about how dumb some of the movies are but they’re always entertaining.

[@SanicBoi]

Good job mark! Getting this out without any strikes must have given you more nightmares than the actual movies.

[@Lorpso]

For a person who reviews cartoons, never would’ve thought you would review Saw. I love Saw so I’m glad you reviewed it, it was a great video. This sudden shift from cartoons to gruesome horror films is kinda like this animation project I’m working on (She-Ra VS Saw)

[@dreohonekay]

when i was younger this series terrified me, but vids like this and dead meat’s kill counts helped me wash that fear and its now arguably my favorite horror series. thanks for this one gang

[@plazma938]

Gotta love the cheerful video game OSTs Mark is playing in every trap description.

[@Bloomser]

One of my favorite franchises ever, the real trap is for the audience. As they begin to love the series, they continue watching the movies and showing them to disinterested friends until the end of time

[@iamsobadateverything]

Hello blooms. I’d like to play a game. You must put out a video about a South Park special within one week of it coming out.

[@JohnPersonal-x3h]

Ye

[@edmdeathmachine]

15:32 Ah yes, my favourite horror mascot, *puzzle piece*

[@Anti_074]

1:15:58 actually, the two of them live! The wiki states that the two get saved by paramedics, and the guy, Mallick, appears in SAW 3D in the jigsaw support group. Great video btw : ]

[@dennisjaime1801]

These movies are gory funbut God damn the story keeps you engaged until the very end. Then you want to watch the next one to see how the story continues. That's how it was for my experience and now I love this franchise.

[@Ayyyyyyyyoooooooo]

Thank you Mark for this video. It’s gonna get me through the rest of my shift at work today. SAW is my favorite horror franchise of all time so excited to hear your retrospective.

[@TheADHDGamer420]

I love how you avoided copyright by adding the little saws and the movie tittle at the bottom if I didn’t see the community posts I would have just thought it was a nice stylistic choice

[@ninjauser3808]

One interesting fact about the short film is that the reverse beartrap used was a functional trap, so there’s that.

[@adamschaak9527]

The "Toad" scream while Hoffman is screaming after his face is ripped open with the Reverse Bear Trap 2.0 is amazing I had to slow it down and rewatch that a few times, hilarious

[@diojoubu7320]

I love when you say "Out there" its so satisfying!

[@nothat0therguy992]

Having seen Saw X in theaters a couple weeks ago with my friends, none of us which were big Saw fans, this video made me appreciate that movie a lot more

[@Adog00]

Gosh I love the SAW franchise. I believe Saw 4-7 are very underrated. Especially Saw 3D

[@PearlBagelUwU]

I'm so glad that Mark also played these Saw flash games lol. There's also one with SpongeBob.

[@Coconut_Prrson]

We all know the fernanfloo saw game is the best one

[@jskywalker58]

spongebob saw was my introduction to saw

[@BGtubecom]

The phineas and ferb one was scary af

[@SilverShine-tr5kr]

You just brought back decade-long memories.

[@richie404]

I remember seeing that SpongeBob and Saw video in midnight on my Computer.

[@zaralobnerold]

This is a great video. I actually do jigsaws voice in my shows for family and friends without the use of any equipment. That’s how much I love some of these films.

[@oddlynicole16]

I could never sit through a horror movie, let alone ones so gory, but how could I not watch a 2 and a half hour LS Mark retrospective video?

[@nohpe]

wasn't expecting anything saw related from mark but i'm ready to spend 3 hours watching it

[@Derkosson]

For the shotgun booby trap, consider the following: Tapp and Singh do not have a mandate (meaning the fact they are police is meaningless in this situation), they are armed, it's night, and they entered by forcing the door to enter an occupied building. Depending on the state, the booby trap isn't murder: it's legitimate defense. Of course the fact Jigsaw had a kidnapped victim in there might throw a wrench in that defense.

[@crowqueenamps]

To me, Jigsaw is a massive hypocrite. But that's to be expected from a booby trap kidnapped, ya know?

[@Derkosson]

@@crowqueenamps Jigsaw being an hypocrite is fully embraced by movie II and III (With Eric Matthews pointing out he is still a murderer no matter how he feels about it, and Amanda saying the traps never ever helped anyone.) I just find it funny to play devil's advocate and point out the fact the booby trap is far from being the worst offender of going against Jigsaw's morality.

[@crowqueenamps]

@@Derkosson Very fair, lol. It's just something that frustrates me most about the franchise, especially since they love killing off likeable characters constantly.

[@Dagenspear]

@@crowqueenamps Jigsaw is a villain.

[@Dagenspear]

@@Derkosson I think Eric's comparison is flawed. LORD willing, Jigsaw is still a murderer, but none of Jigsaw's traps force people to kill themselves, so his phrase, "putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to pull the trigger" doesn't really connect to Jigsaw's actions. I think his traps not helping people also isn't hypocrisy. His perspective on that I think is closer to a delusion.

[@mr.square7286]

Kidnapped by Jigsaw? Just say no! Jigsaw cannot legally kidnap you without your consent.

[@chelsie2767]

The first saw was the first time I saw a movie that I didnt have the twist spoiled for me. I was super young but that feeling I got, at the end where John stands up, unmatched by any piece of media since.

[@juice8566]

your choice to use the katamari soundrack in the bg of this was perfect it made me giggle

[@Not_Fish]

The first Saw was such a gem, but of course we got more and more of a product, becoming more complicated then the last. At least we officially know Rodrick Rules 😭

[@glassofmilk115]

Mark's jigsaw test was setting up the Ps3

[@thehatalwayswins505]

Was not expecting Mark to be a Saw fan but this is also happy to know he truly is a man of culture 🤝

[@Jdog13425]

I never thought I'd see a KZbinr like Mark reviewing a series like freakin SAW. And I'm here for it from start to finish.