Lucifer 3x8 Reaction | Chloe Does Lucifer | Review & Breakdown

[@IceMetalPunk]

There's an important clarification on the "guilt keeps you in hell" confusion. A lot of people think that it doesn't make sense because "psychopaths don't feel guilt", but that's actually not true. It's a misunderstanding about what psychopathy/sociopathy (antisocial personality disorder, collectively) actually is. People with APD *can* in fact feel guilt and empathy! It's just that, unlike most people, they don't *automatically* feel it. They have to consciously consider what the other person might be feeling in order to feel that empathy for them. In fact, that's what makes many psychopaths so good at manipulation: they can choose to empathize with you in order to figure out how best to make you feel guilty/sad/happy/etc. -- whatever they want you to feel -- and then they can just "turn it off" so they don't have to care about hurting you anymore. So in Lucifer, it's still very true that peoples' guilt keeps them in hell. It's just that for people with APD, they're not able to "turn it off" anymore like they were in life. It's still their own guilt over their own actions, it's just the guilt they would normally have to *try* to feel, without all the trying anymore.

[@amazedsatsuma]

Yea I completely agree. Deep down they knew what they are down in life was wrong, but they lied to themselves with flimsy justifications instead owning up to their mistakes...Perfect examples are the designer poisoner Doctor that nearly killed Chloe in season 2, and lesser degree Charlotte Richards

[@rowenatulley852]

I also believe it needs to be guilt over something significant. For example, I feel guilty if I have a second serving of Maker's Mark when one hits the spot. However, I don't think I'm going to Hell for it . . .

[@IceMetalPunk]

@@rowenatulley852 Yeah, I think it's empathetic guilt in particular, i.e. guilt over hurting someone else.

[@geonunes10]

Notice this is the second episode Linda states she is going to hell when she dies, the first one being the episode Chloe was dying from that crazy poison.

[@pcoleman1971]

I love the scene between Linda and Amenadiel. I'm with Linda, chameleons are cool.

[@anivijudi]

Lucifer is an excruciatingly slow learner for sure. I mean he's millennia old and only just starting to change... from that perspective maybe taking less than a century to change is actually fast though?

[@countingtls]

About the "likeness" in "personality" between the Goddess and Charlotte, I always had a theory in reverse, that it was the Goddess "picking up" Charlotte's trait when she took over her body, not the other way around. The Goddess is effectively the source and the pure form of everything, and remember what Maze said, the Goddess had no form, no weakness she could use to torture in hell. And if we observe the Goddess we met in s02e02 the first time, and the Goddess the last time in the end, there's a clear shift in personality. Along the way we observe her very quickly picking up all kinds of human traits, physical desires (rooted from sensations of Charlotte's body), and she had to act like Charlotte to blend in to Charlotte's life. It's like the Goddess as a shapeless essence that had the divine potential to be anything got poured into a "Charlotte shaped" vessel, and morphed into the vessel's form in order to interact with the physical world.

[@divinelangene6813]

I've been thinking the same thing

[@j.patrick5929]

I look at like this, people with an APD (antisocial personality disorder) have a brain chemistry malfunction, so on the mortal realm may not feel guilt the way others do. However their soul that goes to Hell, doesn't carry this chemical malfunction and they now have to face their earthly actions with a "clear" mind.

[@chayarivka9903]

I would think that even if socio- & psychopaths don't feel guilty, when they die their souls would know the truth and the guilt would hit like a giant punch. Their minds and bodies may not process guilt normally, and their actions have deadened their connection to their soul while alive. But after they die, they would know, but it would be too late to repent.

[@patriciadoyharzabal1560]

"what's stupid about thinking someone deserves to be loved for who they really are?"...I loved Lucifer's face when chloe says this phrase, it makes him think he can be loved despite being the devil or feeling like a monster...

[@jacquelinedimattia774]

This is such a funny episode 🤣 I can't with this line: "No not like a demented witch on crack!" 🤣 I bursted out laughing when I heard this the first time around.... 🤣

[@kmuk6276]

This time choice of Drink boring: Cola, but well its my favourite. 😂❤ so just right for this episode😊 true to myself 😂🎉

[@lightningg252]

Lucifer being a slow learner and having non-linear character growth is very frustrating as a viewer but clearly intentional writing. It's about as frustrating as it is in real life, when you find yourself relearning the same things over and over again until it finally clicks, it takes some people longer. Real change is hard and can take a while, especially when you've had a millenia to develop bad patterns and your immortality eliminates your sense of urgency to change. Plus, rising and falling is kind of thematic to Lucifer as well, so makes sense why he backtracks sometimes🤷‍♀️

[@divinelangene6813]

But his lack of emotional intelligence is frustrating😂

[@lightningg252]

@@divinelangene6813 I agree but for me it helps to remember that he is an immortal celestial being who hasn't felt the need to grow emotionally until recently.

[@equitek]

I just love watching this with you. I have never done a watch along, or whatever these things are called… But, now I’m hooked.

[@rowenatulley852]

IIRC, the idea of guilt sending one to Hell gets further refined over time. It's easy to poke holes in plots, but if you suspend disbelief just enough, you can kick back and really enjoy a good yarn - and Lucifer is a damn good yarn . . .

[@dragonflynoire9659]

It's not a spoiler, but in my opinion, Lucifer is very annoying for most of season 3.

[@divinelangene6813]

Yes, goodness , I love him but he frustrates me so much this season, especially when comes to Chloe

[@ThePharaz]

Lucinda is the worst flirt ever. "We Got Quill The Worst Gift Ever! A Disgusting Actor!" - Drax Ella reminds me of Kaylee from Firefly. Cute, innocent, and nice, except she isn't so innocent. Myself, I think of one's body as the hardware and the soul as the cloud. While the Goddess was in Charlotte that information was made in the hardware so when Charlotte's soul returned that new information was added to her soul. The personal memories were removed with the soul but what if choices/settings/cookies if you will were left behind. So at times in certain situations, it's almost like the Goddess is revealed.

[@peachesplums]

so psychopaths and sociopaths still feel the guilt that sends them to hell, they just aren't concious of it while alive. I the comics there was a genocidal king called Breschau, and he kept begging for torture ages after anyone who knew his name had died. and when Lucifer forced everyone out of hell he fought it, he demanded to stay and be punished

[@ChibiHoshiDragon]

Some can't feel guilt due to problems in the brain structure or chemicals imbalance. But that is the point. Punishing someone who was born a certain way is wrong. They had no control over their biological errors.

[@peachesplums]

@@ChibiHoshiDragon I'm just saying what was established in the comics: 1) even people who couldn't feel guilt in life still felt it in death. 2) the demons of hell were literally just hanging out until mortals showed up and literally begged to be tortured. 3) when Dream finds Lucifer kicking the dead out of hell because he's tired we meet Breschau. who demands to keep being tortured because he was a genocidal warlord and defiler of women. Lucifer tells him multiple times that he's free and needs to leave hell and he insists on staying there. 4) if they don't go to Hell they can always go to Hel, Hades' underworld, get judged by Anubis or to the house of Izanami and many more options

[@ChibiHoshiDragon]

@@peachesplums Ah The Comics I thought you were talking about philosophy Never mind then. I was going to go off on a rant about punishing someone for being born as part of a family under a system that punishes crime down the generations and other such punishments that the person couldn't help being born with.

[@dboss7239]

Ah but the writers do address your conundrum regarding guilt being what drives a person to hell, and the exception that psychopaths apparently have no sense of guilt. But it happens much later. (aside, deep in the subconscious all feel guilt, but some can simply ignore it consciously is my belief about the real world) Regards Charlotte vs the Goddess - it would make sense the Goddess would select or be drawn to a personality that is like that of the Goddess as to a body to occupy. And yes the two characters have similarities but actual Charlotte is a lot different as you will see. And they (celestials) are all slow learners - Lucifer, the Goddess, even Amenadeil and Maze have a hard time getting the message/lesson.

[@amazedsatsuma]

Actually this isn't the first time we seen Chloe being an awful flirt...remember in season 2 when flirt with Lucifer in the episode she gets poison?

[@katarinabernhardsson5054]

Re:Lucifer being a slow learner: yes, he is, but the problem is not so much the slowness as the way this season meanders a bit and pushes character development back now and then. So many good stories and moments, but the larger story is messy. Quite a lot of it is due to outside forces messing with them iirc.

[@Dularr]

The shows idea of heaven and hell take interesting paths.

[@jcee8493]

Before we start I just wanna say that the screen in the background having the images on it now is so much better. Great job!

[@OpalKaboi]

My chocolate Xtreme blizzard melted so I'm drinking that. 😅

[@LordSStorm]

Also most guns will not go off when dropped.

[@Marzipanilla]

You can inter an urn. Tho since Linda was planning her ex's memorial out of guilt she would probably keep it lol

[@charlie53echo]

The likelihood of a well maintained gun manufactured in the past 20 years going off when dropped is extremely low (despite what film would have you believe).

[@maurer3d]

1:20 Would a soul continue to have mental conditions after death?

[@johnniequinn3215]

Is happiness a mental issue?

[@randallwilliamson3838]

Be patient, there is going to be a straight up psycopath.sociopath in later seasons and well, when the time comes, so does the guilt.

[@mikewulf2766]

what are those bubbling and smoking drinks in the background?

[@AnnaAlexanderAuthor]

A screen saver I found. Just trying to break up the darkness..

[@mikewulf2766]

@@AnnaAlexanderAuthor I didnt even notice that was running on a tv. reall cool.

[@mikewulf2766]

really.

[@butterw55]

17:19 Jurassic Park reference.

[@LordSStorm]

I love your cocktails with the dry ice!

[@Meee-ye7sr]

Intro reaction: Arrrhhhhh nooooo.... It is your Guilt that puts you in hell. Read that as a personal internal 'hell' (or religious one if you wish). A non-feeling pyscho murderer, etc wouldn't be in hell (either form) but also would never get to heaven (either form)... :-)

[@divinelangene6813]

But if your banned from heaven I believe hell would be the default

[@butterw55]

Chloe is so impossibly beautiful in this episode: playing Monopoly with her face painted, elegantly dressed as Lucinda; her date outfit with Mr. Top Meet (that gold necklace and heels with an all black outfit).

[@divinelangene6813]

Lauren German in the first three seasons is just another level of gorgeous, shes great in the last three but she looks so different

[@DavidGowers]

I like a lot of what @IceMetalPunk said, I look at the 'staying in hell' part slightly differently though. The way I look at the 'guilt keeps you in hell' part is that, if you're able to process/deal with/confront your guilt and move past it to a place of acceptance (or however you want to word it) then you're able to free yourself from your hell, but people with APD don't naturally feel that guilt, they don't naturally just *know* they've done wrong so there's nothing for them to process. Their actions send them to hell - "You send yourselves there" - but their lack of awareness of their guilt leaves them no way to escape. In that respect, guilt is like a toxin: if you're aware it's there you can do something about expelling it and then you're fine, but if you aren't aware then you can't/don't expel it and you're fucked. People who don't naturally feel guilt over their wrongdoing aren't naturally equipped to recognise and deal with it.

[@DavidGowers]

Funnily enough, it was my birthday recently so I actually have alcohol to drink with you, now! My sister bought me a bottle of Wild Turkey American Honey so I'm having that on ice

[@Sillydogification]

Chloe needed to be a bad actress... IF she we're good at it, she would have less incentive to switch back to being herself... You're right, she should have been good at it, I wish she had said something like, "This feels wrong" and went onto be herself... Maybe she got a genuine vibe from someone, who lost interest when she acted up at him ... The she re-approach him and be her self ... Something like that would've worked really well at the party scene...

[@DanielaDormiaru-ih9xf]

I would suggest a series for your list: The Last Kingdom, in case you didn't see it. It has very interesting character arcs and story line. It is historical fiction, that I feel you will enjoy. Also it is a completed series of 5 seasons and ends with a movie: Seven Kings must die.

[@Dark_jediG]

I am not considering Lucifer as a "slow learner". I think we have to put this into the greater picture. Its more like changing habbits and beliefs. We all know changing long used habbits is hard and slow - in Lucifers case he is thousands of years old and taking that in consideration he is changing very fast. The struggles makes it a lot of fun though

[@JohnDoe-xz1mw]

who sais psycopaths are in hell? thats just a bible predjudice assumption :P

[@kingfamothegoat9430]

Tbh the worst of the worst people are just good at hiding guilt there is no happy murderers so anyway they slice it they go to hell

[@Zerashadow]

Lauren is so good at playing the most awkward and cringe scenes xD

[@davidedwards1705]

14:10 Likely Dan saw Hot Tub High School

[@johnniequinn3215]

More likely he didn't.

[@divinelangene6813]

​@@johnniequinn3215He said in season 1 you look really good in it😂😂

[@johnniequinn3215]

@@divinelangene6813 Ok. Do you think that was a factor in Chloe marrying him?

[@slithery9291]

Keep scrollin scrollin scrollin.

[@oliverwtell]

'Welcome to my bedroom !' Isnt that the salutation of a lady of easy virtue ? 😂

[@johnniequinn3215]

only ladies?

[@butterw55]

Flirty Chloe is the most hilarious thing ever. Girl, you're beautiful! You don't need to act like that.

[@divinelangene6813]

But in season 1 when shes flirting with Lucifer shes so natural

[@lukasr5867]

That's kind of the point, isn't it? Lucifer is convinced her "normal" flirting could only ever get boring/normal people interested in her, but they're trying to catch a "tophat", so she has to learn "tophat-flirting". But in truth being yourself is the best and most efficient way to connect with other people. Not least because it's hard for most people to pretend to be someone else and it's easy for most people to see through such pretense, making the pretender quickly uninteresting.

[@divinelangene6813]

@@lukasr5867 yeah but in season 1 she was flirting with him just fine

[@lukasr5867]

@@divinelangene6813 That's exactly what I said. She's absolutely fine flirting as herself. That's the moral of the story. They thought she needed to act like a female Lucifer to attract "tophats", but pretending to be someone else makes the flirting worse.

[@divinelangene6813]

@@lukasr5867 yes, and I also like when the guy says that the woman(murder victim) made him feel like he didnt have to be on all the time, I feel like subconsciously Lucifer probably feels the same around Chloe

[@rnkelly36]

Its funny to hear that people are questioning the guilt thing and hell. Its nice to thing about that as a head canon but hell is a dogmatic thing. Without guilt or knowledge of sin you would never understand the concept of hell. What is punishment if you don't understand what you are being punished for? Enter the dogma of social systems in this case hell. So this is more does the writing fit. In bible studies outside of the dogma hell is not a thing and there is no area of punishment. Inside the dogma you have to have knowledge of what is and what is not a sin.

[@johnniequinn3215]

What if the dogma is wrong?

[@rnkelly36]

@@johnniequinn3215 That is a strange question to me. From the perspective of dogma it is never wrong. You believe what you will.

[@johnniequinn3215]

@@rnkelly36 Believing Dogma is not believing what you will... It is believing what you've been told. The premise of the show is a journey of self discovery for characters who always questioned the dogma, but in doing so have to question themselves and the world thst they believed was set by that dogma.

[@janices5389]

Charlotte showing Goddess tendencies? Ummm... I can kinda see what you mean, but... Both Characters were trying to rediscover and reinvent themselves, and I think that similarity may be what you are seeing. The Goddess wanted to 'be good' so as to stay in Lucifer's good graces (after all, he punishes evil) at least for a short period of time - but in the end she gave up and reverted to her darker manipulative ways.. Charlotte was also once self-serving and evil and is trying to do the same thing, but her effort seems more sincere. The overlap for me was clearly seen when Charlotte confessed to Ella about stealing the evidence. The Goddess was often blunt and truthful that way while she was trying to figure the whole 'human' thing out. But I'm pretty sure that's all it is is 'similar'... maybe? I hope so anyway! I guess we'll have to keep watching to find out!

[@TheRealBrotherGrimmy]

Feeling bad about not feeling bad is so legit.

[@divinelangene6813]

Yep, I've had that feeling many times

[@keithcole8536]

How are you today Anna and do you want some more shows for the list

[@AnnaAlexanderAuthor]

Yes, please!

[@keithcole8536]

@AnnaAlexanderAuthor Stargate the movie then Stargate sg1 the Stargate sg1 movies then Stargate Atlantis thats a big time series but for a lesser 1 there's Hercules with Kevin sorbo or xena and there's a really good vampire show called the strain and 1 called day shift you would like those

[@keithcole8536]

@@AnnaAlexanderAuthor I hope you like the lists I give ya

[@Its_Bek]

@@AnnaAlexanderAuthori recommend the blacklist and person of interest if you haven’t seen them

[@AnnaAlexanderAuthor]

@@keithcole8536 I'm sensing a theme... 🤣 I loved Xena! Had a cat named Xena, and just broke the Xena keychain I had for 30 years. Funny thing, I never saw the very last episode 🤷‍♀️