Harrenhal's Magic, Hidden Greenseers, Damon's Dream - House of the Dragon - A Song of Ice and Fire

Featuring ‪@michaeltalksaboutstuff‬! We’ll rip into the questions of who is Alys Rivers, what kind of magics she can use, what’s going on at Harrenhal, how the weirwoods come into this, what is Alys’s agenda, and how does magic even work in Ice and Fire! First half is non-spoilers for House of the Dragon.
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[@buffysummers7887]

Michael's idea about the ward being in place 🫨 stellar

[@heathenwizard]

That is…not what I thought MichaelTalksAboutStuff was gonna look like! Man popped straight out of GoT!

[@inthefade]

Or Motörhead

[@elektrablacksky]

Right! He has a cool look

[@Devoted2Mariah]

I really enjoyed this. It felt like old school mythical astronomy. Micheal is a great guest, and the tangents were much needed!! We must have another one!

[@williamutsey4822]

This is the collab we need.

[@secicu]

💯☀️😆👍

[@jenkabukiska7928]

👏👏👏

[@sentteri]

Someone said that Aegon burning Harrenhall with all its inhabitants could have been a huge accidental blood sacrifice for the weirwoods. And that would be the fuel for all the messed up stuff that happens to people who live there. CoF messing with them or something along those lines.

[@elainemarie8725]

That’s a really good theory! Never thought of it that way before.

[@obviouslyPSM]

Love it! I’d also imagine burning in dragon fire only adds to the magical properties of the sacrifice

[@MrHws5mp]

Only 40 mins in and got to go out now, but two things strike me: 1. Perhaps Harren cutting down weirwoods but keeping a godswood was about him trying to make his own, isolated mini-weirwood-net, cut off from the main one but still functional. Perhaps he didn't fully understand the nature of the net, i.e. he though the trees connected via magic, rather than by a literal underground web of roots. So he keeps his godswood and the live trees in the walls to make his castle warded, but then cuts down all the weriwoods beyond the walls and uses them for building materials so that nobody else with equivalent or greater knowledge can use the weirwood net against him. Maybe the reason why Harrenhal remains standing after hundreds of years despite the emnity of the weirwood net/COTF is that it's taken that long to regrow an underground connection to it. 2. If the Winterfell crypts are an ancient weirwood cave system that the castle was built on top of, then presumably they were full of greenseers, just like Bloodraven's is. Maybe that means that if you go down into the deepest levels (the conveniently "collapsed" ones, you find at minimum, loads of mummified greenseers but maybe even a live greenseer. It might also mean that if you were to open up any of the tombs in the crypts, you'd find weirwood roots growing into the surprisingly well preserved body. Maybe Lyanna Stark's consciousness is in the weirwood net...

[@konawalchuk333]

Holy crap, did not expect this team up, i just finished off all of Michael's videos the other day

[@ThommyofThenn]

Kinda like when King Stannis formed an alliance with the Manderlys, Umbers and the Thenns to bait the Boltons/Freys into an expertly laid trap consiti- wait a minute...

[@cafi1999217]

You guys have unbelievable chemistry, this stream felt like a conversation between 2 great friends who hadn't seen each other in 20 years

[@DavidLightbringer]

hahaha first time we ever talked

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

Elden ring answers "how to fix the world" with burning a tree. To reach the end of the main game and the end of the dlc we have to burn a tree both times. After burning the erdtree in the main game and becoming an elden lord we either: -create a new erdtree that if we chose it may work in different way than the old one, -decide to destroy the world and a flaming tree of chaos is created, -decide to follow Ranni and choose the age of a moon, (no new tree)

[@geoninja3631]

Michael's videos about how the wall was build are awesome

[@iWubBass]

This was fucking GREAT. Y'all play off eachother so well and the vibe is amazing.

[@spartan1337la]

haven't really delved into michaels's work but holy cow im sold, this guy knows his stuff plus he's hilarious great stream yall !! killin it !

[@Nerdixy]

You two have genuinely been my two favourite ASOIAF content creators the last year or so, and thought you both complimented each other in this collab very well, hopefully more in the future. Thanks guys 😊

[@bennyinict8768]

What a kick ass stream! Really loved the discussion with Michael, it got DEEP DEEP in a way I haven’t heard from other guests. Will be bingeing his content asap.

[@TuathaTuna]

This stream was friggin amazing, omg. Good work you two 🌖 ☄️ 🪄

[@stephaneeism]

Alys Rivers gives off definite Bloodraven vibes.

[@kellymckinney5082]

Morgan Le Fay is not the "Lady of the Lake". The Lady of Lake was Vivaine or Nimue. In many Authorian stories, she is Authur's older half sister, Mordred's mother, and a student of Merlin until she betrayed him.

[@saraseveryn8650]

I'm just curious... have you seen the ongoing series "The Winter King" and do you like the storyline for this show?

[@Slechy_Lesh]

I looked at the wiki for this to jog my memory - it is fascinating, great stuff. She usually kills him or isolates him forever yes, or seals him inside a tree!! Greenseer/Grey King symbolism!

[@thelonelybolter8245]

Michael has reinvented the way I look at ASOIAF in the last six months, the same way you did three years ago :)

[@anorbet2514]

Talking about the chair Ser Simon Strong was sitting in when he was talking to Daemon, I noticed that the back was a broken sort of circular shape. Which I connected to all the circles in the episode (the Burning Mill, the table in Harrenhal, the circle of candles in the Sept), and then Simon sitting with his back against a broken circle questioning the point of all the conflict. Though that was great.

[@DavidLightbringer]

good analysis!

[@saraseveryn8650]

Sin begets sin begets sin

[@anorbet2514]

@@DavidLightbringer Noticed that in episode 5 when Daemon awakes from his dream/nightmare he is now sitting in the weirwood chair with the broken half circle. For most of the scene Daemon's head is covering the gap in the circle, though towards the end of the scene we first see the gap in glimpses and then full on as he leans back. The leaning back come as Ser Simon brings up the matter of payment.

[@sommer8337]

Amazing stream! Thank you @MichaelTalksAboutStuff and @DavidLightbringer for such an entertaining and educational evening! You’re appreciated! Also- shout out to the Mods for keeping the Chat moving along smoothly and also keeping it fun!

[@ThommyofThenn]

Indeed, educational not only in terms of ASOIAF lore but real life history and the mythology of cultures from our own world😊

[@CatBuchanan]

The intro is horrendous and THE REST OF THE VIDEO IS SUSPECT BECAUSE OF THE POOR CHOICE OF THIS PERSON. IT IS WORTHLESS AND NOT WORTH WATCHING. I REFUSE AND EVERY BEING WITH A BRAIN SHOULD SHUN CRAP LIKE THIS.

[@alexarobertson17]

Very interesting watch! I loved seeing Michael’s ideas surprise David! He had some new ideas and takes on things David has spoken about before with others.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@alexarobertson17 a special thing :)

[@inthefade]

I love Michael's channel, but it is great to hear him talk more naturally.

[@sterlingorganicfarm421]

Thank you for a delightful and fascinating stream. Please bring Michael back to discuss more night fort stuff once the season is over. Have a great night David.

[@jord.an6123]

I adore Michael. Have him on whenever you can! Love to hear his opinions. I really appreciate how hard he works to avoid other peoples theories, which allows him to come to new ideas or fresh angles organically.

[@sunshineroth9605]

I really like Michael Talks About Stuff! Fun to see you two together, interesting. 💙

[@jsull81]

I'm only 16 minutes in and loving this discussion, glad you guys were able to hook up! But that's a perfect description of Michael's channel, that instead of just going with the fandom consensus on a lot of topics (like the undying and what they're really after) Michael is able to come up with not only interesting ideas but ideas that are supported by the text itself. His channel has really been a breath of fresh air, in the asoiaf community, imo

[@ThommyofThenn]

You are going to love the rest of it!

[@jsull81]

@@ThommyofThenn it was excellent! And I really like the idea that the reason Aegon the conqueror flew so high before descending on Harrenhal was to bypass the magic ward. It makes perfect sense, and makes me wonder if we'll see something similar in the main story, maybe to pass the Wall?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@jsull81 that's one of my top ongoing mysteries. The actual structure of the Wall itself. I liked how Cregan in HOTD had the line to the effect of "Do you think my ancestors built a wall *this* huge just to keep out a few bands of wildling raiders?" The look on Jace' face and the way he seemed to suddenly comprehend what Cregan was really implying said it all.

[@KhalBogo]

He had a very good explanation for summer seeing a dragon in brand dream

[@efrent-vr3bm]

Awesome stream! Michael talks about stuff’s Leaf/Nettles/Old Nan is in my head canon. Hope to see him back GrayArea in the chat, thank you By the way, when stalactites and stalagmites meet it is called stalagnate

[@sandrabaulch]

I lean so much towards the Lovecraftian aspects over video games (I don't see GRRM as a gamer, but definitely a reader growing up) and all of the imagery for asshai seems to reflect Rh'lyeh, oily black stone is what the Cthulhu statue is made from, Dagon is a name snatched directly from the short story of a sea-god, the ironborn are the deep ones from innsmouth, and GRRM also wrote a LOT of cosmic stories apart from ASOIAF. OMG I LOVE your theory about the comet being part of the magic moon!!!

[@AmorCorona5]

This is honestly one of my favorite streams so far out of all streams over all these years tbh

[@justineharper3346]

Ooooh. A Micheal Talks About Stuff face reveal! Not gonna lie. I wasn’t expecting him to look like that. I’m digging those luscious locks though man! This dude deserves all the followers. I discovered him about six months ago, and I binged all his videos within a week. His old Nan video blew my fucking mind. He’s had a few videos like that. He definitely has some new and unique takes. I hope he blows up after this

[@Midgert89]

I think all magic dreams are subject to personal biases, and that only greenseers can tap into them with clarity.

[@inthefade]

There is very little Zen ideas overtly in ASoIaF so this would be a nice Eastern touch.

[@Midgert89]

@@inthefade GRRM hints at it with quotes like "prophecies tend to come back and bite you in the *****" etc. Magic is, just like religion and myth, prone to cultural and personal biases. Our understanding of magic if it were real would be just as much a social construct as any other natural phenomena humanity deals with. It is very refreshing to see a fantasy author like GRRM take that approach more seriously. One critique he ofthen levied at tolkien is that tolkien had this attitude that god was self evident and needed no religion if people just accepted gods truth. GRRM obviously disagrees.

[@aerynmusick4548]

I already knew Michael’s channel was good, but he’s really good on stream too!

[@stephaneeism]

The observation about the Camero/TransAm was spot on! 🤣

[@kamicass4408]

Missed the live, started watching and was GIDDY when you named Michael Talks About Stuff as the freaking guest! This is outstanding! Love you both. Okay - 25 minutes in so gotta go keep listening!

[@bonghitsandheavyriffs]

late night garth praisin' with deep lore. tis a good evening

[@kadymiddleton6699]

I’m loving this collaboration y’all are awesome thanks for the great content

[@katherinezz106]

This collab was so awesome- you guys bounce off each other in the coolest way! Need more David-Micheal content in the future!!!!

[@Henbot]

It’s interesting the magic talk because in Elden Ring the magic works like that, that it’s all kinda variations but magic is similar and he also has in Elden ring the principle mechanic with magic. The idea of all creatures have souls does remind me of Shinto religion

[@dgg2999]

So for me when I read Fire & Blood I always thought Nettles & Alys were rivals. I thought Alys tried to seduce Daemon but she couldn’t. So then she went after Aemond. Got him under her spell & turned him into a monster kind of like Euron. Then you have Nettles who gets Daemon almost under a spell but instead of him going crazy Daemon seems to settle down. I don’t know maybe I’m crazy lol. I just thought Nettles & Alys were on the opposite sides when using magic

[@TheaTheGenius]

Ooh, this is interesting. I always thought Nettles was maybe Daemon's bastard daughter, or a protege of some kind, but that she did serve as an antithesis to Alys. It would be poetic of Alys really wanted to go after Daemon, but ended up settling for Aemond when she failed to seduce him. Like F&B says Daemon was 'immune to her charms' but I always took that to mean that she tried to fuck with his head, maybe even attempted some Melisandreesque leeches fuckery to get herself kings blood and bend Daemon to her will enough to get him to pursue a crown and burn the Riverlands as a sacrifice but he resisted cause at his core, he always choose family over power-the antithesis to Aemond who folded like a chair the moment Aegon teased him a bit. It would be a fitting parallel cause Aemond is already a corrupted version of him, so where Daemon succeeds in resisting Alys, he fails.

[@dgg2999]

@@TheaTheGenius I truly think Daemon was her first target but had to settle for Aemond. I also think she led Aemond to her death purposefully. Hopefully the show will give us some answers but if they don’t cast Nettles then I’m not sure how they will play it

[@TheaTheGenius]

@@dgg2999 I mean, I think they're already playing at the Alys tries to seduce him angle. In the scene where they speak, she asks him if he plans to make a bid for the throne, and absentmindedly rubs her lower belly. And wouldnt you know it, all of Daemon's dreams center around the idea of him being King, of seizing power for himself. She even subtly hints at it when she offers him the draft. So yeah, they are going there with him first, and setting up her dynamic with Aemond later.

[@dgg2999]

@@TheaTheGenius I’m guessing Viserys will be in Daemon’s next dream to get him out for under her spell 🤷‍♂️

[@irishpotatothief531]

Thank you both for the awesome stream!

[@nateh9917]

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS COLLAB FOR SO LONG LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@WatashiMachineFullCycle]

Michael is one of my very favourite ASoIaF creators lately, and as I've been a fan of this channel for years now this was a Collab I've been desperately hoping for!! Big fan of the stuff Michael is crafting in regards to the nightfort and I just KNEW it would be up your alley too. Got me some snacks and some drinks and I'm ready to dig right in

[@DIAT0NIX_16]

Love to see this Collab. Two of the best doing it right now, still coming up with new ideas 10 years since the book.

[@applewagon253]

His videos only recently started coming up for me and I’m hooked! So cool he is doing this colab. I’m getting excited about the fandom again!

[@squisherking]

This is the deep lore i fiend for🔥

[@nateh9917]

Rewatching this because I liked the discussion so much. To anyone who hasn't watched MichaelTalksAboutStuff before, his video about how the wall was built is the only theory that blew my mind more than David's comet/mythological astronomy theory. At least, that was until I watched the Old Nan video. Rright now they're the two most watched on his channel, they're absolutely worth the watch. I'd also watch the Horn of Joramun after those, as I think he has it spot on. If you like all of those then the Elden Ring videos he's made are also fantastic. After that, just binge them all tbh

[@witz]

so happy yall finally got to do this! michael gave voice to an idea I’ve always kinda had regarding religion in asoiaf with the “power resides where men believe it resides” and david expanded on it too. being a show watcher originally i described it to a friend as being “basically santa claus needing cristmas spirit” 😂

[@michealmorris3766]

Micro-dosing on psychic tree leaves is my new favourite fantasy trope!

[@Liizardqueen90]

Wow what a stream! Now to go binge all of Michael's channel 😂 Thanks guys

[@pablopicaddo]

Wow!!! I’ve been waiting for this one since you first introduced us to Michael’s channel and this was perfect! You must bring him back asap with Tim as well for more deep lore speculation streams. Fk yeah, 🤌🤌🤌 such a good stream

[@ThommyofThenn]

As usual, I came away from this stream with several amazing looking videos added to my "fantasy/sci-fi stuff" playlist. Thanks to @michaeltalksaboutstuff and @GrayArea for adding their invaluable vibes and knowledge to the stream. You are appreciated! 🤓

[@katkat7562]

Best collab. Loved the stream you should bring him back!

[@Fathoms09]

Appreciate the content!

[@Matatabi6]

I wouldn’t so much say the weirwoods are mushrooms, in general a trees root system is the same size as it’s branches and leaves. There was a good art installation in Austin during one of our many recent droughts called the ghost tree. It was a full tree roots and branches suspended above the lake and spray painted white and it looked like it was mirrored. And many trees spread underground the largest organism in the world is an aspen tree clonal colony in the American southwest/Rockies. However the idea of the consciousness between the weirwoods being caused by a symbiotic relationship with a fungus as exemplified by blood ravens mushrooms might make more sense and tie even more into the harmony of nature element of the children of the forest.

[@MrOuruboros]

Awesome theory producing duo! loved this!

[@thatstarscourgebrother680]

really awesome content 💯🔥

[@morgankirk7382]

When I first started reading ASOIAF I would watch videos and I’d think LML was just a smidge too mythological for me… and after I read through the series, and then read them again… and watched lots of content.. and read companion books… now I’m like, YEP. LML is the best! Good stuff. Can’t wait to binge Michaels videos all day now.

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

Great show, thank you both

[@Birdbrainz420]

Great stream thank you!

[@shreyakar9220]

I missed the stream live, it was 4am and i was dead asleep. Watching it now.❤❤❤. Was waiting for it

[@sneagan1904]

my favorite two ASOIAF creators together!!! ❤

[@r.black.]

You both bring some fresh water, thank you

[@stanzkrilla]

Thanks for the stream fellas

[@tracymetherell8744]

Exciting guest!

[@WeirwoodNet]

Great stream love to see more from the both of you.

[@GehennaDreams13]

I too Dave have turned into a skeptic after all these years. Love the Chanel. I was way too excited when Alys mentioned Daemon’s bed is made of weirwood wood.

[@mitth.rawdog.nuruodo]

1) SO GREAT. I’m sad I missed this live!! 2) it’s the mustache. Trans Am guy vibes from the long hair and epic mustache. BROTHERRRRRR!!!!

[@joshwells3782]

Thank you both

[@DutchVanDerLenin7609]

I can't believe David got an interview with Geezer Butler. Truly a living legend

[@donjuan9602]

I like your guest 😊

[@dirtysheepdog]

At this exact moment I just watched the scene from ATLA where Bumi says “all old people know each other” 😂😂😂

[@emilypennington6354]

Amazingly interesting! ❤

[@ToucanBinks]

Thanks for the video gentlemen

[@johnnycamine]

my two favorite ASOIAF theorists!! now we just need an Eldric Stoneskin collab! You need to delve deeper into stone symbolism dave! there's some real meat on that bone!

[@graceroberts8945]

I just have to say I LOVE your funky theme song 🔥🔥

[@IDKtheBand]

OMG I made Aerea Targ as my newest playthrough and the way the storyline matches up with the lore in elden ring is AWESOME!!!!

[@anorbet2514]

Just speculating about what you said about Daenerys not having dragon dreams in the way the Starks have wolf dreams. I don't really think the story will go that way, but it would be interesting as the bond between her and her dragon strengthens the line between her and her dragon begins to blur. Bran almost lost himself in wolf dreams at the start, but he had help and guidance to learn. With Daenerys not having that, perhaps she would not know how to separate herself and her dragon; the lines between the two of them collapsing.

[@DavidLightbringer]

No she does have a dragon dream, I'm saying that the dragonriders in general do not see out of the eyes of their animal that's all

[@DavidLightbringer]

I sincerely hope she has more psychedelic dreams, the more the merrier

[@anorbet2514]

@@DavidLightbringer Aha, of course for some reason I had memory holed that completely. I blame the praising of Garth.

[@JoeUchiha-gs5ru]

Coool to see David bring his dad on the show

[@DavidLightbringer]

I'm twenty years older than Michael hahaha

[@QTC1688]

This is like when your dad and step dad get together and actually get along because they’re 2 chill guys.

[@persephone342]

You guys look like you could be brothers! 😂 The eye shape, thick brows, dark luscious hair, high cheek bones, and overall good looks! I love it! ❤

[@DrRainbowBecca]

My two favorite asoiaf KZbinrs ❤

[@jacobsquare4812]

Wait a minute. . . How could Bloodraven send Bran dreams with the Wall between them??

[@DavidLightbringer]

it doesn't block greenseer telepathy because that uses the tree network, whereas Jon is a warg and using warg psychic ability to communicate

[@coolichka42]

yooooo was not expecting to see michael talks about stuff, he needs a wizard hat. well you both do!!

[@plasmiusphantom]

Exciting!!!!!!!!

[@Darksun93]

Harrenhal using weirwood on purpose in its construction is a interesting idea.

[@Sllacy]

RE Bird/tree hopping: this makes me think about Speaker for the Dead and the Pequeninos and now I cannot unthink it.

[@DavidLightbringer]

100%

[@downtown_clownybrown]

"you definitely loosened me up..." - LML

[@joshwells3782]

I love your content and it'd be cool to see lml, Mikey talks stuff, nettles and Grey waste Tim or any combo of you guys

[@alanvenneman6323]

I was praising Garth when LML dropped the Closer to the Heart of Winter joke and I nearly choked 😂😂😂

[@daxmommy]

It's official. I'm going to check out Michael's channel. He sold me with his Arya is gonna knock over Gregor's glass candle theory 😂😂😂

[@papabungle]

Michael's right. Though hilariously that information in true Dark Souls/Elden Ring fashion comes from one item description. There's an item called the Moon of Nokstella. "This legendary talisman is a treasure of Nokstella, the Eternal City. Increases memory slots. This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars."

[@1siddynickhead]

Loved this collab! Pls have Eldric Stoneskin on sometime! He's so good!

[@chipsandip]

Dope!

[@gusmulder6130]

Drogon POV… That would be really cool!

[@moiraferreira]

Good topic

[@bluetextbooks]

I fell asleep to this and got nightmares

[@DavidLightbringer]

and so now we have to ask the question, did the nightmare come from the stones? The ghosts? the tree? or the witch?.

[@saraseveryn8650]

Grimdark nightmares

[@jamesesposito8917]

Yeah 37:07 Im confident ow that the wall is frozen weir wood trees.

[@DaBogDweller]

Dream blunt rotation

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

I love the theory that the Undying want assisted suicide! They could just be the people who were trapped before... The Shade of the Evening trees could just be the original trap. Like the fungus that take over ants brains to reproduce. Maybe weirwoods function the the same.

[@applewagon253]

Michael tech supporting his grandma was 🥹👌