The Dragon Children of Cathay Step Forth! Lorebeards w/ Andy Law & Loremaster of Sotek

Join Loremaster of Sotek and Andy Law(master) as they host a livestream focused on discussing the lore behind the Dragon Children of Cathay! How do these nine mythical entities shake up the Warhammer Fantasy world? What secrets lie behind their power and what effect might they have on the planet at large?
Be sure to check out the Rookery Publications for all sorts of fantastic interviews featuring around writing, Tabletop Gaming, and more! @TheRookery
Also LAWhammer where they're amazing "The Enemy Within" campaign is taking place along with lots of other Warhammer goodies! @LAWhammer
Fanatical link for extra discounts off of The Forge of the Chaos Dwarfs, WH3, DLCs, and more while supporting the channel (may not be available depending on your country): www.fanatical.com/en/dlc/tota...
Catch me live on Twitch where we stream regularly and talk about Warhammer Lore and play lots of games: / loremasterofsotek
Join our LoremasterOfSotek Discord: / discord
Join my Patreon for early access and exclusive content: / loremasterofsotek
Twitter: / lsotek
Tip Jar: paypal.me/Lsotek
Podcast original stream date August 20th, 2023
0:00:00 Andy's Dragon Dance
0:01:22 Dragons of Warhammer
0:11:18 The Old Ones
0:25:27 Quay Yin, the Moon Empress
0:36:45 The Dragon Children & the Elemental Winds
0:39:52 Shiyama, the Spirit Dragon
0:53:00 Timeline Issues & the Ancient World
1:02:59 The Great Cataclysm
1:11:02 Fake Dragon Emperors
1:14:31 Obliteration of the Ogres & the Great Maw
1:28:57 The Wu-Xing Compass
1:31:48 Why Dragons Despise the Gods
1:42:27 Yuan Bo, the Jade Dragon
1:47:42 Yin-yin, the Sea Dragon
1:56:37 Intermission
2:07:45 Yin-yin Continued
2:11:48 Zhao Ming, the Iron Dragon
2:22:37 Li Dao, the Fire Dragon
2:28:49 Miao Ying, the Storm Dragon
2:31:50 Shen Zoo, the Light Dragon
2:35:31 The Shadow Dragon
2:37:06 The Final (Chaos?) Dragon Child
2:40:06 The Great Bastion Cracks
2:41:12 Age of Darkness & Disharmony
2:44:31 Shugegan, the Dragon-Blooded Humans
2:58:57 Vampires interest in Dragon-Blooded Humans
3:10:14 Implications of Cathay Lore for Warhammer in General
3:13:09 Answering Submitted Questions
3:32:47 Outro (SUBSCRIBE TO LAWHAMMER!)
Thanks to Creative Assembly for all of their diligent work going into Warhammer 3 and for allowing me to cover everything.
#warhammer #Lorebeards #warhammerfantasy

[@loremasterofsotek]

Timestamps have been added!

[@okonkwojones]

Love the dragon dance timestamp

[@MrParadux]

Dang, that must have been a lot of work. Thank you for that. Good timestamps are always a great improvement on videos.

[@Sathe88]

I need a Lorebeards on the Chaos gods and maybe more than just the big 4. Please, Sotek, please.

[@MeekyT23]

Agreed!!!

[@sterner626]

This!

[@themeteam7159]

I agree. I’d love to learn more about the Horned Rat, Hashut, and whatever sentience exists in the Forge of Souls.

[@whitecreamymilk8436]

And malice

[@zerogravityhead1]

Just a matter of time buddy!! No way they can't do it

[@zombielizard218]

Bans the Worship of Gods Creates Super Soldier Children Impossible feats of Magic Shen Yang really is the God Emperor.

[@Sara3346]

Also a love of gold maybe?

[@dreadkalibur1613]

I love those two lads' hanging out! It's a genuine joy to see two people who love the same topic.

[@weaponizedlizardmen360]

Much better than GreatBookOfGrudges

[@ASpaceOstrich]

The Moon Empress taking her form by mirroring the Celestial Dragon Emperor is a really neat touch. A literal yin-yang situation. I'm picturing her as literally a colour inverted version of him, and I think thats what they were going for when they chose the term "mirror".

[@Elementroar]

Didn’t Xen Yang transform into a cat tho, with his wife, as hinted in one of the mini-events you can get during a campaign? Two cats, one black one white, who give a sense of authority or warmth depending on your actions, would suggest that it’s actually the couple checking in on their kid and reacting to their decisions. Or possibly the cats are just magical avatars

[@AGildedLie]

I've only been an infrequent visitor to this channel in the past but these Andy Law deep dives have quickly become my absolute favourite background listening. Love the enthusiasm and the knowledge from both of you.

[@Biblington]

What if the dragon children are born in pairs? 1 yin, 1 yang, 1 boy, 1 girl. Would explain why they say youngest/oldest daughter/son and the order of when the children are born can be confusing. Would also make the situation around the 9th child even more interesting.

[@bubbajoezappern]

Interesting thought! But that would make Shiyama the odd one. As none of the other children knew her. Fun thought still. I like to think that Yuan Bo and Miao Ying where born together, Li Dao and Yin Yin, Zhao Ming and Shen-Zoo, and the last 2 unknowns together.

[@danmorris5498]

​@@bubbajoezappernnot necessarily what if she was born with the shadow dragon

[@kapitankapital6580]

​@@bubbajoezappern well there are nine dragon kids, right, so one needs to be born alone. And everything we've heard about her suggests she is unique in some way. I think this makes a lot of sense, especially as personality-wise they do tend to make sense in pairs: Miao Ying and Yuan Bo as the most proper, authoritarian ones, Shadow Dragon and Chaos Dragon as the rebellious ones, Li Dao and Yin Yin as the most aggressive ones, and Zhao Ming and Shen Zoo as the most wholesome ones.

[@Luca-wi1xh]

Quick personal theory. It coulf be that Shen-Zou went up north to try "save" Flamefang from his corruption. It sounded from what you said that she can purify and get rid of chaos corruption.

[@Tortle-Man]

That’s probably the best theory I’ve heard about that relationship at all.

[@rabblerouserorc8649]

Li Diao having a MASSIVE guando and being a mix of Lu Bu and Guan Yu would make him my absolute favorite Cathay dragon.

[@kapitankapital6580]

Li Dao *definitely* needs some sort of melee weapon, considering he has "blade" in his name XD

[@particularplaypaint5384]

May be a hybrid lord like Yuan Bo

[@AGildedLie]

I'd like to suggest as a future topic 'the unexplored lands' the places the warhammer lore hasn't really developed much yet. Ind, Nippon, Khuresh, maybe araby, fabled lumbria, I'd love to know what Andy and Sotek think about those places.

[@jackruby6696]

Idk if there’s enough lore to do a deep dive on some of them

[@monthlyscoopltd]

How many subscribers does Lawhammer need for a live streamed Warhammer tabletop duel of Sotek playing as Ka'Bandha versus Andy playing as Gelt? 🤪🤣

[@andrewramsdale]

Idk but that would be interesting cuz of sotek’s hate of ka’bandha and Andy’s hate of Gelt I would totally watch it just to see what they do

[@benjones3466]

I love the interpretation of the Yin-Yang philosophy in Cathay. In the Yin-Yang symbol you see each side that appears to represent opposite ways of being each include a tiny piece of the other at it's heart. Such a simply symbol has so many layers of meaning and turns up in themes of so many stories as I've been enjoying discovering in recent years. This seems so well represented in the story of the Dragon Emperor & Empress' union. If they were just the polar opposites that they appeared to be then it's hard to believe any kind of relationship could work. It seems to me that each must have seen in the other a tiny reflection of themselves alongside the overt differences in nature and saw how together they would form the complete person/dragon/whatever the empress is.

[@fluets5658]

I also love how this is represented in the playable Dragons. Miao Ying using the lore of Life (a Yang lore) as well as the lore of Yin, and likewise, Zhao Ming using the lore of Metal (a Yin lore) as well as the lore of Yang. I think it applies to Yuan Bo as well? I don't recall what he uses, was it Yin and Heavens?

[@worlddd7777]

I wish we get more lore on humans in Cathay

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Some random cathayan peasant randomly being dragon blooded descended from one of the lost dragons would be an amazing story. With how caste based Cathay is. Someone who, by their very nature, throws the harmony of Cathay into dissarray. Giving us a brilliant fish out of water story. Its basically perfect for a heroes journey and a relatable protagonist thrust into this noble world.

[@Elementroar]

Maybe it’s another way to think of the Dragon-blooded as also being part alien shapeshifter from Quai Yin’s side, and since she was the one who arguably took the initiative to change herself to be able to mate with Xen Yang. So the imperative to mate with more humans may be from her, to maybe spread more of her moon shapeshifter gene.

[@Icesong]

1:13:37 Something of mild interest is that pure yang in Taoism is represented as Heaven. In Warhammer the Heavens wind is just one part of Yang, but perhaps the reason the Emperor considers Azyr the only one suited for humans is that it's considered the closest to Yang, his own principle. In a similar way to Light/Hysh being considered the closest wind to High Magic in "the west". 1:30:26 As far as regular humans go, I think I'd still bet on the Colleges of Magic having an overall higher level of mastery of magic than the Astromancers and the House of Secrets.

[@donovantempleman478]

These podcasts are amazing guys, give me more !! 😂please do one on Kislev and their battle with Chaos!

[@halfpipe6618]

I got into Warhammer Fantasy through Vermintide , and became so fascinated with the world and the characters that I ended up looking at these lore videos. They've now become my go-to whenever I want some interesting background noise while cleaning and getting ready.

[@Lunaras]

i want a short story about a dragon blooded child of the fire dragon who just wants to make his dad proud and takes on a lot of extra responsibility to help him out but he's being ignored the whole time

[@Elementroar]

Gotta wonder if the Cathayan dragons breeding with humans is really to help offset the possible frustration that for the dragon siblings, they literally have no options unless they go find an Ulthuan dragon to mate with, because their contemporaries are their siblings.

[@emikryll1245]

Cool vid liked it alot. What really made me think when you were speaking about cathays interpretation of the winds of magic and how they appear differently from the Elfs. How life is water and what not. Ponder this. The dragons were here before the old ones and magic was different. So what if the dragons magic is more akin to what magic was originally like before the old ones came and changes things around.

[@DarkSpells87]

N7 hoodie. That's a man of culture right there.

[@rknowling]

"Andy was out there playing before the Old Ones showed up" ❤ 😆

[@Living_with_Narcissists]

Sotek's theory of the shadow dragon seeing through Cathay and not agreeing with their parent's methods melds with my theory that they are The Monkey King. All of these dragons are able to take human forms, why can't a master of Illusions including magical disguises take a slightly animal form? And why else would The Monkey King seem so powerful, when no monkey people before it could come close and all of a sudden there's this unaging contender with the rest of the dragons, who fights them during the time their parents are gone, which is well known in Cathay for being the time those siblings fought each other, and all of their biggest accomplishments relate to Shadows. They beat all of the masters of martial arts in hand-to-hand combat through trickery and they elevated the position of the skaven clan that is associated with that wind.

[@Dreadnautilus]

My kind of weird personal headcanon is that one of the missing dragon kids either ruled Nippon or tried to invade it, but then it was killed when Nippon fought for its independence. Eventually going down in folklore as more of a Yamata-no-Orochi figure than the stereotypical wise and benevolent eastern dragon. This whole incident eventually resulting in a whole Elf vs Dwarf level of rivalry between the two nations.

[@Icesong]

I don't think it's right to say that first they learn High Magic and then learn Yin and Yang from there. I think it's the other way around: by learning to harmonize Yin and Yang they're able to access High Magic, which they call Feng Shi instead.

[@LordEsel88]

I agree. The Lores of Yin and Yang as described seem much more like partial High Magic. They are literally two halves of High Magic. While normal High Magic is a combination of all 8 Winds of Magic, Yin and Yang each only combines 4 of them.

[@mvb8263]

I love this so much, so happy to be able to listen to the both of you. The enthusiasm is mutual

[@Elementroar]

If the Monkey King is suggested to reside near Ind, then CA may base him on the Hindu monkey god Hanuman, who is regarded as the inspiration behind Sun Wukong.

[@michaelthomas3209]

🙏 thanks guys

[@Pizzifrizzo]

In "The Old World" rulebook, the nature of magic prior to the Great Cataclysm is a bit clarified. Before then, it seems that all magic was High Magic, silvery in colour, whose constituent parts were kept in balance by being channelled through the Geomantic Web. The Elven waystones, necessary to the functioning of the Great Vortex, inadvertently added a lot of minor sites of power to the Web; this, coupled with the effects of the Vortex itself, ruptured the Web and caused magic to separate into the Winds as we know them today, much like light gets refracted through a prism into different colours. Also, the same rulebook reiterates the close relationship between ogres and halflings, their late creation, their unfinished state and their resistant to Chaos. And the same book lays the fault of the Ogre thing squarely at the feet of the Dragon Emperor, personally. And the meteor is still made of warpstone.

[@okamiv5]

Its interesting that in the journey to the west, its mentioned that there are indeed 3 other monkeys like sunwokong, he even fights one of them i think. So the different versions of him depicted as different chaos aligned monkeys isnt a too crazy interpretation, even as slanderous propaganda

[@volrosku.6075]

single handedly improved my opinion of Zhao Ming. rebellious fond of humans and industrious love him

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

Shadow Dragon’s role when revealed is gonna be supremely interesting. Hedging my bets on it being the only other one in on the secret plan and cooking something up with Quai Yin in the shadows.

[@Malvemus]

Question about the dragon blooded humans, why are they only part dragon and human and not also part shape shifter?

[@Elementroar]

I think to the dragons, the gods are considered ‘fake’ cos of how they manifested, thus don’t deserve worship. I’m a Chinese person who does participate in folk religion, and folk religion in Chinese culture revolves around praying to ancestors, and sometimes local animal spirits that would be equivalent to maybe a demigod in western terms. Animism style worship basically. But prayers don’t empower say a local tiger spirit to come protect you from demons, rather you give offerings of meat to the tiger spirit to curry favour with it like how you’d feed an actual animal, except this one is sapient and does have spiritual powers. But it’s a very practical relationship, in a sense.

[@forestgaming3993]

Really fun episode!

[@kapitankapital6580]

Honestly I would love to read an attempt by Yuan Bo to invade the Western Provinces. Legions of Jade Warriors fighting a peasant army equipped with Warpstone weapons and backed up by ogres and alchemists would be awesome. You could also have the Onyx Crowmen play an important role, as ostensibly they serve Yuan Bo but could turn on him at an opportune moment on the instruction of the Moon Empress.

[@Sirmops]

In my opinion one of the best lorebeards episodes. Top 3. Nice.❤

[@user-bp7hh4et9f]

My head canon is that the Spirit Dragon was killed by Kholek Suneater When he crushed the biggest purple sun ever cast using Star Crusher.

[@Elementroar]

Yin-Yin is basically the Moon Moon of the dragon siblings.

[@Playaplaya18]

Coming back to this video, very interesting relationship between Tzeench and Grand Cathay. Between Chaos Dragons and the Changeling, Tzeench is just copying Cathay(that’s following the timeline, release date shows the opposite). An interesting dark reflection in some ways, I’m reminded about a saying regarding imitation being another form of flattery

[@Pizzifrizzo]

I still cherish my theory that the Celestial Dragon's and Moon Dragon's secret work ultimately allowed one or both of them to ascend in AoS as Dracothion, it makes too much sense.

[@churlishgrin2945]

Cathayan Dragons when they see Ulthuan Dragons being ridden by Elves "Shameful Display!"

[@j.bbailey6275]

I love listening to you guys shot for doing this!

[@blazindragon1833]

You gave me an idea that I think would be cool if they added it, which is a skill line for the dragon-blooded generic characters that lets you pick 1 option from 9 choices being Descendant of Zhao Ming, Descendant of Shiyama, Descendant of Yuan Bo and Etc that can possibly give your army some sort of buffs against certain winds or something like that. Also what if the last Dragon Sibling that you think ran off to Nippon is Xian Ha Feng and he's called the Jet Dragon and his specialty is anti-magic or something like that?, meanwhile Yein-Ya-Long could've been the Darkness Dragon that got corrupted by Tzeentch and became known as Flamefang and could be why Xian Ha Feng left.

[@sfigatto_0167]

So Nippon (Japan) is just ruled by an off spring of the Cathay (China) rules? The graphic image is GW jumping on a land mine….

[@blazindragon1833]

@sfigatto_0167 Not what Sotek said at all. He just thinks the last child is hiding in Nippon and it probably works for the Divine Sun.

[@Tortle-Man]

If they made him the Emperor then yes, but if he was just like a shadow dragon ninja instead, I think that would be cooler.

[@blazindragon1833]

@Tortle-Man Omg yes!!

[@joseonwalking8666]

I think it's actually simpler than a betrayal. I think the shadow dragon saw the plan and thinks it's flawed. because hes salty that he didn't get a region in cathay in nippon. And thinks he can do what his parents envision alone. OR he is the sleeper cell of cathay

[@olroyohboy1119]

I love this man.

[@MasterObservato]

Listening to the Yin Yin section, and I'm thinking she'd make a good Cathayan/Eastern extension of a possible Dogs of War expansion. Where standard Dogs of War would be an Empire/Ogre/Estalian-Tilean hybrid, Yin Yin would be a hybrid of some of those, along with Cathay units. She'll have to compensate for a relative lack of Harmony for her Cathay troops, but it could be interesting to have "the Cathay formation" alongside the guest troops being able to break formation within the same army. (Also Aranessa Saltspite for DoW pls)

[@phantomthunder203]

BTW in irl Chinese, Black is the color of water

[@joseonwalking8666]

I would love a LOREbeards on realms of chaos and how the chaos God's don't necessarily control all of them all the pantheon of God's have their own realms and some suggest great horned rat has a particularly large one.

[@seppafer]

My guess is that Shiyama may have been a natural born child that could have died naturally (well at least not because of some outside force) due to the nature of her heritage making her body unstable. I also believe she was tied to the winds of death to save her but that failed and her soul remains because of how powerful she is (possibly too powerful for her body) and they tie her to the dragon river. Then the wind of death that was used to preserve her life caused the phenomenon that happened. then explaining the draws of dragons to a magic that suits their nature and title could be due to the infusion of magic and a somewhat artificial birth which saves them from the fate of the first daughter. This explains why the dragon river is the way it is because of coincidence.

[@Tortle-Man]

No the lore states she was slain specifically.

[@RedCascadian]

If Cathay Dragons didn't let lesser beings ride them, where did the dragon-blooded come from? Hmmm?🧐

[@akumaking1]

Timestamps please?

[@loremasterofsotek]

will get on it!

[@akumaking1]

@@loremasterofsotek when will you give a review of the World Anvil Khuresh Fan Project?

[@rknowling]

"Time and the pure essences of Heaven, The moisture of the Earth, And the powers of the Sun and the Moon All worked upon a certain rock - old as Creation, And it magically became fertile." Oops, wrong animal! 😆

[@stilloading5652]

I wonder, in Cathay, if their are any Non dragon beast respected(in a dragon way) by the dragons? In My head cannon their are many flying Zoats in Cathay with Dragon Ancestory.

[@Izadirad1995]

In theory a phoenix since it’s based on china.

[@stilloading5652]

@@Izadirad1995maybe the phoenix carry the zoats?

[@espio33]

I missed the livestream earlier, but will watch this over the day for sure. Been enjoying these discussions.

[@Auvinius]

Ok, this episode brought up so many ideas and thoughts to me as a person who writes as a hobby. I am going to list them here just because. 1. No idea what lore there is about Nippon already, but what Sotek and Andy discussed about having the Shadow Dragon leave Cathay because he didn't like how the society had been made by his father, really made me want to see a Nippon where the Shadow Dragon has made his own version of Cathay and how things SHOULD have been. In historical Japan, there was always this idea of Japan being the younger brother of China who copied its system and culture, but at the same time there was competition over who truly had the "real Emperor". I would love to see a Nippon where either the Shadow Dragon is ruling as this "second Emperor" away from Cathay, or maybe as a power who guides Nippon from the shadows towards some kind of vision of a just society the Shadow Dragon has in his mind. 2. If I had to make a prediction of Shen Zoo's personality based on what little we know of her as the "bringer of harmony", I would say she would be the kind to be open and honest with people, truly genuine and even naive at times. It is this sincerity that really made all her siblings and her father and mother truly love and cherish her, so whenever there was trouble within the family, Shen Zoo would come between her arguing siblings and say honestly what she thought about each one, essentially going "You are both silly, stop fighting", and because her siblings couldn't bring themselves to hate their youngest sister, they relented and made peace with each other. 3. I am super fascinated by the idea of what kind of parents would each children of the Dragon Emperor be. Sotek touched on it a little already, but wanted to add some thoughts. - Shiyama: If she even had any time to have children with humans, I'd imagine that she would have been pretty "odd" mother. Like, you wouldn't really know what she would be thinking in each moment and whenever she said something, it wouldn't really make sense. The children would still be loved by Shiyama, but just her nature as the embodiment of Shyish, she would feel distant in a way. Miao Ying: Yeah, I agree with Sotek's take that mostly Miao would be pretty practical and calculating when it comes to her kids. She stress the importance of duty and acting according your station, not letting emotions rule you and act in a manner that is most useful to Cathay. However, as cold and aloof as she might be, there could have been those one or two human males who really managed to capture her heart and the children of those unions would be in a "special" position compared to the rest, just as Miao Ying herself is favored by her father and given less attention to from her mother. Yuan Bo: Very much like Sotek said, Jade dragon would be the "company boss" to his children. Probably would still remember their names, but not because he actually cares much about them, but more simply because his mind is so sharp that it is no effort to him to keep track of simple names on a ledger. He would essentially be just like his father with great deal of distance to his children and doubtless all of his dealings with human women would be seen as duty by him, maybe with one exception (but unlike Miao, no special treatment for the kids of that union). Yin-Yin: I have this very strong image of her being quite domineering towards her partners and not wanting to beat around the bush if she wants someone. "You are cute, come to my chambers" or "You would be a handy ally. How about we get together." However, as much as she is direct and sometimes only doing it for personal benefit that brings her closer to getting back her father's favor, she would always be quite passionate lover. To her kids, I imagine her adopting this policy of promoting competition amongst her children and only those who are most capable would receive actual recognition from her. On the other hand, she wouldn't want to simply "expend" her children to get what she wants, but instead genuinely try to arrange tasks for them where they can truly prove themselves, even if they fail from time to time. Zhao Ming: Best father of the year. Says too many dad jokes. Always comes home with bunch of gifts (probably something he made for them) and makes sure that not one of his kids feel left out. Unfortunately, his madness would bring its own tragedy into the mix, and his kids who love and revere him, would have to watch as he slowly becomes more "mad", probably something what many people in real life experience with their parents coming down with dementia or something of that effect. Li Dao: Unlike his brother, I doubt he would be very popular with his children. Probably more than little abusive at times towards both his children and his partners, with perhaps there having been a few women who he truly loved and when they dies most likely went berserk for a while, burning a bunch of villages to cope with his grief. Oh sure, there would be the rare couple of children who would try to justify his behavior and maybe even look up to him as this great warrior who they see being mistreated by the rest of the Dragon family. Li would emphasize martial arts and strength to his kids, preaching the "might makes right" doctrine. Shen Zoo: If Zhao Ming has the "best father award" then the "best mother trophy" goes to Shen Zoo. With how genuine she is and how open and loving she acts towards everyone (like her mother in many aspects), her children would get a caring home where they are being taken care of, and probably grow up to be the most balanced of the Dragon-Blooded. Shen would likely have quite a few of those princes story romances where she has children with only those who she loves and grieves when they die. Perhaps her closeness to Hysh eventually would make her a little bit more closed off with how many true loves she ends up burning through, but her children would nevertheless, always value and care for their mother.

[@mccwick]

One interesting subversion I think they could do surrounding the shugengan is by the majority of the pressure being on the men rather than the woman. Even assuming that having children doesn't sideline the dragon kids like it can us humans is just make more sense to put most of the weight on the men who can obviously have a bunch of kids in one go. With the way ancient China could be with its grand bureaucracy could even see with some of the less emotional members of the dragon kids it would be like applying for a job rather than dating lol.

[@danmorris5498]

Imagine first day of school what does your dad do. Oh him? Hes zhao ming 😂

[@codyraugh6599]

One of the things i think about Shin Tzu is that since she is likely the one to see the world as it really is also sees and recognizes the Gods untainted by the biases of faith or her family's atheistic hate. Like everyone keeps calling Gods "parasites" because they get worshipped and then get our souls after death... But wouldn't that make any farmer a parasite? Farmers who are given milk and eggs from animals they raise, who the animals could well adore and praise rejoicing when they see their farmer has come to care for them...and then the famer eats them after they die. So if she isn't tainted against Gods and instead recognizes them simply as the "soul eaters" that they are and that there are balanced "natural" Gods and then the destructive, invasive species that is the Chaos Gods. She might be far more willing to work with certain Gods than any of her siblings would ever be willing. Maybe enough to do something insane like try to free an elven god, or try to free or meet with perhaps Sigmar or another worthy mortal God whom she hopes will aid her family in completing or fixing whatever plan her parents are working on.

[@ASpaceOstrich]

To be fair, it would be very on brand for Archaon to kill something way cooler than him in the lamest way possible.

[@joseonwalking8666]

I don't think she is dead the spirit dragon. I think she is willingly embodding the aspect of the afterlife. So did she "die" or did she merely fully embrace her calling.

[@stilloading5652]

Do the dragon children have half alien half dragon forms like the dragon-donkeys in shrek?

[@codyraugh6599]

Well they are the only dragons without wings we've seen.

[@Venus_Nebula]

New DLC race for old world and total war. Ancestral, dragons rule, factions and hordes. Don’t know the Pacific’s I want giant fucking dragons maybe Babylonian mythology inspired

[@hyko8355]

Li Dao is basically Angron

[@stilloading5652]

I would pay 25 dollars for Shen Zou

[@codyraugh6599]

So on the thing with Mio Ying calling herself the eldest. Im still alive and people refer to my younger brother as the eldest, because 1 im never around living far away and 2 there is nearly a decade difference him and me.

[@norsehorse84]

On the subject of Xen Yang not allowing god worship: I doubt he thinks the gods of warhammer don't exist as such. He doesn't strike me as that stupid. He is, however, older than pretty much every god in the setting, so all he sees are extremely powerful beings that mortal beings revere and empower. I think he personally just doesn't like god worship both as a vendetta against chaos as well as the old one's creations who are very prone to god worship and practically because god worship empowers them too much for comfort.

[@joseonwalking8666]

Shen Yang and Quey Yin need more babies. It would be cool. Also I suspect Shugengan dragon blooded have gone to uncles and aunts and made hanky with them also. As a result their maybe some shugengan who are essentially immortal like elves with scant features of humanity.

[@codyraugh6599]

Sort of wish i was awake on this. But it always strikes me as odd/hilarious that whenever GW tries to make a atheistic society in their fantasies, particularly a human one, the leaders alwaya set themselves up to be diefied. In 40K the God Emperor had no fucking excuse he lived through the Kim family in North Korea, and everything else he did the dictator-to-god playbook step by step. But the Celestial Dragons seem to have done similar, but walking that line and clearly more with an intent to redirect the focus and the impact of all of that away from any god or divinity and instead something that can be turned around into the sheltering of their state and more with the intent to battle the gods as understood in the Warhammer world rather than it being a hypocrite's rejection of the very notion of a god.

[@Dreadnautilus]

Kharadron Overlords avert that, because instead of having an all-powerful (both politically and magically) leader figure they're just run by a senate.

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

Honestly prefere that the dragons arent the colors of their wind makes their entire design based on the wind i find to be far more boring honestly.

[@Grz349]

I feel something worth considering is that the only casters you get are Heavens and Metal. The legal and illegal magic lores, combined with the whole thing with Zhao Min and Miao Ying being favoured child of their Mother/Father and the lightning elements in Miao Ying’s reveal trailer I suspect that she was planned to use Azyr, but it was changed at some point. Also isn’t Yuan Bo’s capital supposed to be the breadbasket of Cathay? Seems like he was planned as the Ghyran dragon but it got changed.

[@Lightzy1]

Miao ying is specifically called the edlest DAUGHTER because yuan bo predates her. Its an ego thing

[@olroyohboy1119]

Can you and Andy cover the vampires instead of more Cathay?

[@Vejopatis]

No comment on the CA Reddit post? disappointing!

[@chadroy16]

Ridiculous and insulting! dragons!