Why Is Every MMO Dying EXCEPT This One?

[@LuckyGhost]

SURPRISING TRUTH ABOUT WOW, OSRS AND ALL MMO PLAYERS: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZ-UpGSFa8-LiM0 🔥👉👉OSRS Part 2 of This Video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4iWq5ymea12bKs Support my channel by downloading Rise of Kingdoms from click.fan/ROK_LuckyGhost or QR code and receive a special bonus on PC using code: PlayRoK4PC . . Talk to me in DISCORD► discord.gg/justlootit Follow Me On Twitter► twitter.com/luckyghosttv

[@YamiGenesis]

What is the music used for the outro? I've heard it somewhere before but I can't think of it

[@YamiGenesis]

oh also, it's interesting how the WOW token has been a sour feature in the game but then if you look at OSRS they also have a token system. I wonder how people on there see that. as a F2P OSRS player myself I see it more as a benefit to me since I can always grind out gold to acquire that token. but that's a lot of time invested to get millions of gold for it.

[@metalgear-]

Despite everything you stated FFXI is the True SquareEnix jRPG while FFXIV is just another water downed Generic WoW Clone. Only Final Fantasy XI plays like a Final Fantasy game that was converted into an MMO version.

[@metalgear-]

Final Fantasy XI rather than XIV is the Original Cast of Races. The Original design to Strategic Combat. The Original from the GODS of RPG gaming themselves that is NOT tainted by the success of WoW nor does XI chase after WoW players trying to convert Blizzard’s Masses into their own Profits. Final Fantasy XI is Greater than All other MMO.

[@metalgear-]

FFXIV is just WoW w/ Chocobos & Moogles. Half my uploads fully Display what Final Fantasy MMO gaming actually is. FFXIV is NOT even a SquareEnix Invention but rather just Blizzard’s #1 Fan admiring its Idol via Copying everything they did & do.

[@tHeWasTeDYouTh]

MMOs died with the popularization of wikis and easy access to meta databases of games. It permanently shifted the main goal of MMOs from basic exploration, adventuring, and socialization to minmaxxing and obsessing over collecting the highest amount of minor stat advantages as efficiently as possible. Wikis turned MMOs from social experiences into isolated work simulators.

[@cesukeelmilagroso]

Genius

[@thaforseti31]

I couldn't disagree with you more if I tried to. The main reason why MMOs died is simply because there are too many out there. Each new MMO has attempted to become "bigger" and have more "depth", and subsequently each has become a bigger and deeper game to have to figure out. This in turn causes wikis and databases to actually become necessary in order to play effectively. As a result of this dynamic, players that just want a simple game that is fairly easy to memorize will play for a little while and then decide that their time is better spent elsewhere because the sheer size and scope of these MMOs are too large to devote the time to. This is a design flaw in the way MMOs are developed. Bigger isn't always better... This is one of the main reasons that some of the older games such as WoW have survived and even seen increases in subscribers(presumed based on sales numbers because blizzard doesn't release subs numbers) and revenue. Their games are older now, and in turn are less complicated. The simpleness of these games is an attractive feature in the gaming world and allows more casual players to come in and enjoy a game that otherwise would require weeks and weeks(if not months) to master and play.

[@tHeWasTeDYouTh]

@@thaforseti31 I never thought about....

[@nezumied]

Tbh this is the exact reason why i love MMOs. I love minmaxing and grinding towards getting those minor stat advantages. Perfecting your armor sets, passives, skill rotation, etc. is the funnest part of the game for me because doing those things gives you so much purpose and motivation to play and work towards what you want

[@sesty5867]

That’s literally just not true… WOW was giant even when wikis and tip sites were a thing lol the only reason the genre is declining is because every studio making an mmo either rips off another that’s already established, makes it worse at that, and or monetizes it in a way that gives annoying advantages to those who pay more, we just need better and more creative devs

[@Silvershadowfire]

There also seems to be a difference in philosophy when it comes to player retention. When FF14 starts losing players, Yoshi-P doesn't panic and go "We must retain what's left!" he stops and asked "Okay, what are we doing wrong that is making them leave?" He also doesn't panic over natural churn. In fact he's said in interviews "Go ahead, leave for a bit, play some other games, there's lots out there, we'll be waiting when you get back." There's no pressure to log in every day or FOMO.

[@valenten89]

The only fomo thats ever in the game is events and USUALLY unless its a collab with another game or franchise cosmetic event rewards gets added to the cash shop so people who did miss can still have it for relatively cheap. Tho the monster hunter collab is one that did stay in the game and will always been in the game I believe.

[@skcans]

If everybody listened to Yoshi-P and took a break from XIV to play other games, SE would lose a lot of money and he'd instantly regret saying that. The only reason he's able to say that is because he knows nobody would listen to him. If I told you to stop playing a game you enjoy, would you stop? Of course not. If you were wanting take a break, you would regardless of what anyone else says. Yoshi-P telling his players to take a break from his game is just a PR statement. It makes him more likeable with literally no risks

[@nickb220]

well fomo and pressure to play is not associated with what a dev says, it's about the game itself and its mechanics and systems. but yea

[@Sorakasharri]

​@@skcans Not everyone grinds games or has the time like back in the day. People do take breaks I stopped after Storm Blood expansion and came back towards the start of next xpac. And many people that I know only come back when there are major patches X.X so I don't know what you are talking about. And even now I barley touch the game since 6.1 but I haven't canceled my sub why? I've already got more then the 12 dollars a months worth and I don't mind paying to not play atm. Cause when I'm back in a 3 months or a year I know there will be content. And no they would not lose a lot of money think about it. If I pay for 1 month then stop they still have my money for 1 month. So whether I play one day or every day they get the same amount from that sub. This applies to the 6 month and 1 year subs as well. It not like I can say I paid for 6 months but from tomorrow I would like my remaining 47 days returned since I won't be playing anymore. Where are they gonna be bleeding money from is what I want to know.

[@skcans]

@@Sorakasharri Nothing you said is related to what I said

[@mikeyoung9810]

All I need in a mmo is a world to get lost in. Not a treadmill to the endgame.

[@LuisFelipe-nm6vj]

You're looking for Guild Wars 2, mah man.

[@Zuchiniii]

@@LuisFelipe-nm6vj I've lost myself in there for the past three days :)

[@paulw5039]

Even worse, a treadmill underpinned by a cash shop and gambling mechanics. As bad as a Skinner Box is, it's worse when the pigeon is being sneakily plucked of feathers at the same time.

[@pupernickel]

i lost myself in guild wars 2 and played over 100 hours in the last weeks

[@_Aemse]

yep - i still go back and play Aiden Chronicles 20 years later cause it captures the feel you want in a video game because of that exact reason.

[@HipyoTech]

17:28 this is the biggest killer of FFXIV for me - an MMO where you need to beg your friends to play 30 hours or so just to experience some fun content together

[@ironbloodedalchemist]

Or maybe they just need some new keycaps xD

[@Makalon102]

Takes a lot more than 30 hours to reach that point

[@themacksimum7540]

i love that line, "give us stage transformations, give us boss transformations, give us epic soundtracks. And if you wont, FFXIV will."

[@olimar123123]

but they didn't delivered a good gamplay tho

[@CodeguruX]

Tried the game once. Nope.

[@einsteinx2]

You guys may not like it, but clearly 10s of millions of people do (myself included and many people in these comments). Every game won’t appeal to everyone which is totally fine, but it’s pretty clear that FFXIV appeals to more people than any other MMO as it has the most active (and I believe total) player base of any MMO right now…

[@sureokk]

Look up someone fighting the final raid boss in OSRS new raid :)

[@olimar123123]

@@sureokk change nothing to me, tab-target mmo are not my cup of tea + the long GCD..ew

[@Sputnik5790]

Me waiting 18 minutes for him to start explaining why oldschool runescape did everything right.

[@Mominho]

Same 🤣

[@otopharaoh]

Is that game really good? It look really old

[@SaimpsOSRS]

@@otopharaoh try it if you wanna give up all your free time lol

[@Mominho]

@@otopharaoh the best game ever in my opinion.

[@DivineMurder1]

@@SaimpsOSRS shut it

[@KempQ]

Looking forward to the OSRS one!

[@aaronbernath3554]

agreed

[@MaxNick]

agreed

[@kenny9021043]

Kemp!!!!

[@tatencolley4967]

Same thought lol

[@ChemieYT]

I was waiting for it in this video lol

[@miscellania4263]

Something that's kept my best friends and I still playing WoW coming up on almost 19 years later is that it still functions very well as a "common space" we all know and love despite where we're living or working. We're all spread across the U.S. now, in different parts of our careers, marriages, divorces, and plenty of kids but Azeroth is still the place we can hang out and catch up in peace and I'm so grateful for it now that we're all well into our 30's ❤

[@N3mdraz]

I'm jealous. I had great friends but none of them were gamers from my group. That's why gaming feels a bit lonely for me since I never play with irl friends anymore.

[@Travybear1989]

I agree, when I started playing WoW in 2005 (when I was only 18 years-old and in my senior year of High School) and loved the game. Still do despite being in my mid/late 30's and being married with a wife, two kids, and a mortgage. I just logged on a WoW private server (Turtle WoW) yesterday on my Dwarf Warrior and it's just as fun as I remember and I haven't lost a step in regards to my skill in the game. Everything just feels familiar I guess, like going to visit your parents at the family home. It's been a while but you still remember your mom cooking a family dinner during an NFL game where your dad is drinking light beers and yelling at the TV and your siblings are arguing over inane stuff. It just feels like home I guess, it's not 100% perfect in reality but it's what your used to.

[@Travybear1989]

@@N3mdraz I don't have any friends who play WoW either but it's still fun to play for me.

[@N3mdraz]

@@Travybear1989 y thats nice :) I played wow classic could play with my old guild, so i understand feels like home. Started today FF14 journey for the first time, havent played any mmorpg except wow. Enjoy your gaming and family :)

[@sammicopor]

Wow would be great if it weren't for the toxic influx of angsty virgins that get angry at the most irrelevant of things

[@lethargicwizard]

FF14 is not only thriving and successful, it's basically carrying the massive Square Enix brand on its back. It accounted for iirc about 20-25% of all sales from the entire company last year. That's a testament to the power of making and maintaining 1 really good game.

[@luxsignifer6996]

dude for real, business unit 3 with ff14 and soon ff16, and whoever is making ff7R are keeping the entire company afloat

[@Griffo2710]

I have no doubt it’s a great game but the graphics looked so old I couldn’t give it a shot personally.

[@AGMugen]

@@Griffo2710 good thing they are updating the graphics with the next expansion :)

[@sheebuhenu4074]

@@AGMugen for real? I hope they keep things fairly optimized.

[@AlfredEiji]

@@Griffo2710 It was really shabby for me too, but thanks to Gshade (or really any external ability to pump the saturation), the game looks a lot better. It still looks old, but it looks more stylized than outdated. Of course, if you want unreal5, unfortunately, I don’t think we’ll get there. After the 7.0 patch though, they’re going to completely redo the lighting, which I think will do a lot to update the look of the game without actually remaking everything.

[@rambow70]

What keeps OSRS alive is it’s community. The content created by it keeps me interested even if I’m not playing it.

[@Jimmy-fp4qq]

fr not even playing anymore and I watch vids daily

[@justinjones6835]

it's the only large scale game to also be completely player based driven. Their polling is paralleled to no other game.

[@randomd286]

Yeah I got sick of the monetization and how it seems a number of games are run by devs that openly hate their player base. Ended up on OSRS which I hadn't played in a decade and never looked back.

[@PaiOeShi]

What is the goal of OSRS? Is it a cut throat full loot pvp mmo? Is combat fun? is there lots of class variation? (meaning more then one meta option per class)?

[@rambow70]

@@PaiOeShi Grinding for some reason is rewarding. Nothing comes easy. Rare drops trigger a certain dopamine center in your brain that I can only imagine is similar to gambling addicts.

[@larskoenig6021]

one reason for ff xiv´s success is the simple fact yoshi-p and the other dev´s love and actually play their own product and theyre really close to the community, with regular devtalks (othen around 12 hours long) and playsessions with random people on stream.

[@prod7906]

As far as I'm concerned, they went they way of warcraft. Game has been on a steady decline since the end of Stormblood. Story is still amazing, but the actually gameplay has been getting worse and worse since Shadowbringers.

[@DiktatrSquid]

@@prod7906 WHat parts of the gameplay do you think has declined?

[@prod7906]

@@DiktatrSquid I just said gameplay. Crafting and Gathering has never been easier, none of the classes are remotely difficult anymore. Dungeons are so simple a 3 year old can navigate there way through it. Their is a massive shortage on healers because they don't even acknowledge whats wrong with the class, not understanding that healing is just fucking boring and unrewarding and their balancing for jobs on top of all of this is the worst it's ever been. Like Machinist for example, you'd think that it's a selfish DPS, it'd do more damage then support dps that provide raid buffs right? Wrong, for the last 2 patches, Machinist has been functionally useless because somehow, Bard and Dancer just do more. It's just big things and little things that has lead me to just detest this game and they seem to not be addressing it at all, or worse, addressing it by missing the point.

[@slimfastsubaru2043]

Idk if they play their own game tbh... in a recent live letter yoship said in response to the healer shortage in savage to just switch to healer....... It takes months to gear your main job if you're lucky and crafted gear won't get you through p7 or p8 savage. They would know this if they played their own high end content. You can't just switch without halting your prog for a month or 2 to gear a healer just enough to even be allowed to enter p8s.

[@IgneousP]

@@prod7906 Sounds like you're burned out and need to step away from the game

[@brandonmojica9693]

I remember growing up and watching my dad play Aion. It was such a beautiful looking game at the time, my dad was in charge of the banking and items at the guild. I don't remember the name of their guild, but the leader's name was ClockWatcher. They still speak to each other through facebook. I have lots of memories being amazed by the graphics, the amazing pvp that I don't think has been replicated to such a level with essentially having wars and being able to turn into gods. I remember hundreds of players mixing and meshing into a laggy blur as people died left and right and came right back into the battle as soon as they could, flying through the skies and even fighting in the skies as well. The community was also amazing from what I saw. I remember seeing a person have a stand up selling an item for x money. Then someone comes up and sets up a stand selling it for less, then someone else for less, then another for less, and finally the last one for free! I remember laughing so much with that. But, I also remember a memorial of honor was had for two of the members of the guild. They passed away overseas while in the military. I watched as every member gathered together in honor for their friend. It was such a sad day. Im sad to see that everything in the game is now gone. All that fun, fighting, joy, connection, and sadness. All gone. The guild either does not exist anymore, or was given to someone else. None of the original members play it anymore. I was too young to get into the game, and im sad that can never happen due to corporate greed. Anyways, this is just my story. I just wanted to share some fond memories i had just by watching my dad play the game. I really do miss it, even though i never had the chance to play it during its glory.

[@LuckyGhost]

great story! I played Aion when it launched. My friends and I got together and had a LAN party, played it all night. good times, great memories. I hope we see an MMO find a way to bring that feeling back! thanks for sharing!

[@atff99]

I MISS AION. only mmo that used to take up all my time

[@Amine-nx4sb]

Also played most of the MMo's back then and I'd say. Aion was the one that hooked me with its pvp and creative dungeons.

[@Codd23]

AION was my favorite back in the days

[@buzz4633]

I agree. The MMO industry, as most industries today, forgot about quality. They forgot that people aren't looking for crap, they are looking to be satisfied with their purchase. They forgot that if you make a compelling product, people will keep buying it. They forgot if they take care of the customer, the customer will take care of them.

[@peterschabig9566]

It's less that they forgot this and more that they (the executives, product owners, etc) learned that having half the player base and the option to reaaaally harvest thos whales (predatory monetization) is actually a higher net income than paying more during development and making a better game.

[@SouthernGuy5423]

@@peterschabig9566 Unfortunately, I have to agree. Thanks, mobile games and MTX! Its not so much that they forgot as the fact that, particularly with WoW, for instance, they were bought by a larger company that does what ALL big companies do - they decided to maximize profit in the short term, because they don't care about the long term except peripherally. Activision buying Blizzard was the end of their greatness, for no other reason than how corporate execs think about making money. Once they realized they could sell gold and mounts and cosmetics to the 10% of customers that spends money on those things, and get anywhere from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars a year out of them, the games were doomed! Its not terribly complicated, really. The stuff they'd need to do to truly evolve their games into next-gen MMOs is EXPENSIVE! There's no guarantee it would be successful, either! But people will always buy those sweet, sweet mounts and cosmetics... plus gold, too! Why take the risk? That isn't what big companies do.

[@katolight8006]

@@SouthernGuy5423 theres also one thing for FFXIV in general, the creators of that game have a passion to keep it good, everyone loves their job there! its not a cess pool like blizzard... everyone that loves final fantasy loves it because the devs of the game love it too. sure they make alot of money from it, but they also care about the game more than the money.

[@SouthernGuy5423]

@@katolight8006 Do you think that no one that works at Blizz loves WoW? of course they do. I'd say that most people that work there do! But at Blizz, the people in charge don't care. Whereas FF14, Naoki Yoshida is the man in charge, and he's pretty close to single handedly responsible for its success with how he turned it around after its awful launch. The execs for FF14 got their shit kicked in with the idiocy they forced on the game at launch, and no Yoshida has almost total control. HE actually cares and has final say on all major decisions with FF14. WIth WoW, you have a bunch of Activision execs who only care about next quarter's bottom line... and maybe the one after that. they're more than willing to damage the game in the long term for short term benefits and Yoshi P isn't.

[@raymondrobbins9495]

What i really like about Final Fantasy is the ease of which you can just change jobs. No loging out to get a different character if i want to play a mage i just have to unlock it and change the weapon i am holding. The ease of which you can lvl and explore more jobs is way better in FF.

[@byletheisner5006]

​​@Kennja Maju Though luck. I am sorry for you and the other two who hate choices.

[@byletheisner5006]

@Kennja Maju Do not use words in a futile manner, this "dead game" is among the MMOs with the most active player counts.

[@Axterix13]

It is a bit of a double edged sword, though. I like being able to swap jobs, but I also miss having ults, with their unique looks, gender, and so on. And sure, I could still make an alt, but players will tend to follow the path of least resistance, and that is making use of the jobs. But on the flip side, having to play through the long story each time would get annoying as well. Pretty common thing for MMOs, though. The strength of a game is often one of its weak points as well.

[@Herbile7]

This is what I came down here to say. That was one of the biggest draws for me. Being able to quickly and easily swap jobs with out needing an entirely new character. I enjoy swapping frequently and it helps the game avoid becoming stale. Hell I'm at over 1800 hours and currently grinding to max out all the classes.... all 19 combat classes, 8 crafter classes, and 3 gatherer classes. It's fun, And it gives incentives to grind different content which helps it avoid becoming stale.

[@raymondrobbins9495]

LOL i have all 90 crafters and Gatherers but only 4 Combat Sage Bard Dancer and Red Mage lol Currently working Samurai @@Herbile7

[@BloodVixen]

I honestly believe that every developer for the MMOs that we love must see this video.

[@NgsGameer]

what for?? He is wrong tho in my opinion micro transactions is like 5% 10% maybe 20% of the players founding the rest... While FF14 is 100% of the players founding the game that's why they have no problem make you grind for costums etc etc (you need to have something to do). At the end of the day is more predatory then any cash shop you can put in game... Will always make you pay while in others games you pay if you want "the rush" or not pay at all, in the end you have a choice. In FF14 the choice is not to play the game. For me anyway, and i m a big FF fan i play 7 to 15(-14), and i can tell for sure i will never play FF14 i prefer play 15 any day of the week.. And i know is not mmo uuehhh uueehh don t care still love FF games

[@taylemgames2652]

Devs don't often make the calls with it comes to monetization sadly. That is left to the marketing department and top management.

[@Fighter600]

@@NgsGameer You maybe want to put the cheap beer down next time before commenting there, sport?

[@NgsGameer]

@@Fighter600 damm youtube security here, are you assuming i drink beer or the beer is cheap?? anyway i miss your point tho low IQ here ;D

[@RoDaX55]

@@Fighter600 i think he is right though... The appeal for FF14 is 2 things bad wow dev decisions on content and gating systems for the last year's and the unique story...

[@addikgamingWorld]

I remember playing MMORPG, hunting low level monster with couple stranger you just met, doesnt really look for anything specific, we just level a little, farm/grind, while chatting, or comment on the monster design, its drop/loot, what people write in global chat, etc.

[@quito787]

One of the worst things is loot boxes / loot crates / random boxes. It's bad enough that everything is now on the cash shop instead of obtainable simply by playing, but when the game developer makes you have to gamble just to get the cool item you want, then they've gone too far. I believe this has turned off a lot of players, and keeps them away from MMOs.

[@cordia96]

While there still to many games doing lootboxes, they are on their way out. Rising regulations spooked publishers. Even Overwatch dropped them for 2, instead doing a season pass. Exploitation will not stop with lootboxes, but at least the push back worked in this case.

[@lycanwarrior2137]

@@cordia96 It may also be due to the fact that lootboxes haven't been all that profitable with a few exceptions (FIFA).

[@TimoRutanen]

Lootboxes have also been classed as gambling and thus illegal or behind a government permit in some places. I have a feeling the amount of those places is only going to grow.

[@tiny.tuyaxiv]

You actually mentioned one of the things that blew my mind when I initially made the switch from SWTOR over to FFXIV. I was absolutely stunned when I found out that a simple patch was equal to what I came to know as an expansion. When I first started XIV it was right after an expansion dropped and a new patch was waiting for me after I hit level cap. I was expecting at most a few new quests, maybe some new fights, etc. Not the continuation of a story that just got me hyped for the next patch AND the next tier of raids. And eventually I got to experience my first expansion for XIV and had my mind blown once more by just how much content got added in. And knowing that there was going to be a LOT more with all of the patches that were scheduled.

[@Montyandrew45]

I quit SWTOR back after the start of the Shadow of Revan expansion because it just felt empty. I started playing FFXIV and played that for 6 years before I quit

[@nogitsune4452]

FFXIV is certainly a great MMO. It doesn't need to prove itself to anyone when the community shows how much they love it. I personally have not been an "active player" in the game for a while now because I already did all the content I wanted and lost my small community, but I can't say I'll ever quit FFXIV, only that I'm walking away from it for the time being and will return later.

[@ChainedFei]

@@nogitsune4452 And when you're ready to come back... Tataru will welcome you home.

[@katomamundara8106]

@@ChainedFei With a glock aimed at your face as she asks "Where have you beeeen Warrior of Light"

[@Blinkx47]

Quit SWTOR as well, waiting 2-3 years for a new raid just pales in comparison to FFXIV raid content. 3 raids per expansions and 2 ultimates and we’re not even counting the trials

[@DonaldTurner]

23+ year player of exclusively, MMO. tried FF14 2.5 years ago, never looked back. Love FF so much. great devs, great community, great story, great fights!

[@goldenhate6649]

Only reason I haven't gone back was due to the chip shortage and the struggle to log on. I know thats probably fixed by now, but got to get some real life stuff worked out first.

[@Medbread]

I used to DREAM of the perfect MMO. Found FFXIV half a year ago, and it is now my definitive answer for "What's your favourite video game?"

[@Lmaoguy78]

FF14 doesn't have a great community IMO, played about 4 years, instead of being upfront toxic they are the kind of community that talks behind your back, can exile you from your friend group with lies, it's not a great community whatsoever, everything else you said is true though.

[@MaxiimTribe]

Same here but I just couldnt keep up with it for some reason, I quit new world before the end of last year and I'm back playing it gain. We shall see how that goes.

[@DnVFMVs]

what happen after the content run dry?

[@ByronC900]

During Wrath, I was leading a guild, and a member gifted a Celestial Steed to me from the Cash Shop, and I was honored. I went and looked at the cash shop, realized it was $25, and I knew instantly that this was going to be a downward trend in MMO's. Blizzard was going to make so much money from this one decision, that we'd see mounts in the Cash Shop until the end of time.

[@legopicklesnake]

and there's nothing wrong with that. Those mounts do nothing to help you in game.

[@ch3fskitchen324]

This is why they’re dying. It’s just the truth. Cash shops ruin mmos

[@VarroxTergon]

@@ch3fskitchen324pay to win ruins mmos, cosmetics do not

[@bladerunner2006]

Very true. The players brought it upon themselves. If we hadn't bought them in the beginning, they wouldn't have stayed for long. But Blizzard made money hand over fist with them. They would have been idiots if they had stopped.

[@airvar]

Developer interaction is the main thing other MMO's can learn from FF14 and OSRS.. Both have absolutely great interaction with there given communities, and communicate well with there fan bases. Happy player bases recruit their friends to play the game with them naturally.

[@lilydusk5042]

As someone who has been playing XIV since its relaunch, it hasn't always been the single-player focus it is now. However, watching its gradual shift into that direction and being along for the 10-year ride since almost the beginning is something I will never forget. I'm not mad that XIV is catering more to new players instead of veterans. As a veteran, there's plenty of content that even I still haven't done. Player retention is the biggest struggle any MMO can face and it makes me happy to see the devs meet that challenge head-on while also delivering phenomenal content to their existing playerbase. While it's by no means perfect and some of the job depth has been sacrificed over the years, the endgame content makes up for it by being technically demanding and requiring performance at a higher level. It's not quite the best of both worlds, but it's so dang close that I can't even complain. (though I might still do so occasionally lol)

[@entelin]

I've played since ARR as well, I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding single-player focus though? The model we have today is essentially the same as it was then. Single player world, 4 player dungeons, 8 man raids. Today there's the option to do dungeons solo, but it's slow.

[@Zakjuh]

@@entelin I think Lily means stuff like Trusts in old content, including potentially eventually all Trials. Oh, and also overhauling old trials that were... not that fun and a pain in the ass to get a party for. (looking at you, Cape Westwind, memes notwithstanding, and Steps of Faith) This future-proofs the game.

[@entelin]

@@Zakjuh yeah, though they have always made changes to soften old content. By and large the overall model of the game isn't really any different from then. I don't really see any more "single player focus". Not saying there isn't one, but there always has been.

[@-a-s-a-s-]

The biggest gripe I have with XIV is how you are basically forced into soloing much of the leveling process. It was such an inconvenience having to constantly reform group when an MSQ popped up that you couldn't enter with a party that my friend that started playing with me quit around level 30. I kept playing and still enjoy the game to this day, but they lost his interest quickly because of the quite frankly terrible leveling system for those wanting to level together.

[@MementoMoriGrizzly]

FFXIV is slowly becoming Anime Second Life. Appealing to casuals is a good economic model because they are the ones who spend the most in cosmetics and buying clears and gold for housing etc, but it removes the depth of the game. The story is also very predictable now. Remember when in the first 2 expansions, people could actually die and stay dead? Well, I guess not any more because all the twitter shippers will cancel their sub if this happens. Also, seriously, class balance is non-existent. Why is allowed that some classes can do 2-3K more damage than other ones? What's the reason to play classes like red mage, reaper, paladin etc this patch when you can play dark knight and do more damage in your opener than the entire paladin's rotation? Party finder is a shit show and the loot system is extremely toxic to people playing without a static. I got 2 weeks in a row without an item I can use for my character (rolled low and not bis items), did up to p7s. I was Red Mage and had to change to Samurai because you can imagine the times we wiped on 0.1%. It's so ridiculous that a 50% samurai does the same damage as a 90%+ red mage.

[@probably_afk]

Also.. The Devs actually (no I mean ACTUALLY) interact with players. They do this consistently in a non-patronizing way. The live streams with the Producer, the Fan Fests, the Q&As are real and they feel real. This allows us to see and believe that they give a damn. I'll sometimes go 4-5 months without logging in but I don't cancel my sub during that time. The game is a masterpiece. (very happy to hear about the graphics update though ngl.)

[@keithrees4755]

i learned long ago when game makers not hearing out there customer base everything starts to drop game makers got to much hubris thinking they know whats best for there customer base and then they wonder why there game fails...

[@rh0dr1]

This is something that is consistent with osrs as well. OSRS prides itself on its community polls, the devs are extremely transparent with the community, and always seeks player input on rewards and stats and overall content. They regularly revisit old content and keep it relevant, they try their best to make sure the world remains relevant and without dead content. I think trust between the devs and the players is the key to making a successful and thriving mmo.

[@keithrees4755]

@@rh0dr1 i think the best kind of poll there is and that is the forums it gives the customer base a feeling that there voice is being heard it makes they feel they got a seat at the table it makes them feel that there money is representing them and it gives them confidence that they have a direct line to the devs

[@ShtevieBrabo]

I honestly feel like this is by far the biggest reason for their success, over all of the points mentioned in the video. Customer feedback is hugely important in any business, and adapting your product to that feedback is a surefire way to company growth in the long run. One of the major issues in modern economies, though, is that people are looking for quick payouts, even if it hurts the product - or worse, the brand - in the long run.

[@keithrees4755]

@@ShtevieBrabo sir your more right then you know i don't know how any video game company out there can exist or survive with out direct contact and with out being very personal with the customer base and with out the game devs caring

[@DragoserakerIT]

OSRS is kept alive by content creators, that and a dev team that is engaging with the players and genuinely listens.

[@imsotallytober5]

Osrs is kept alive because it's completion time is unbelievably long. Can't say much about these other games, but I doubt any of them takes 3000 hours just to reach max level. I'm sure ffxiv is pretty long if you decide to max every job, though. On top of that, "completing" the game just isn't feasible, besides a select few. To this day, it hasn't been completed 11 years after release. With new content coming out fairly regularly, it makes it even harder. It's just an addicting game that has players that just refuse to quit grinding.

[@divinrth5187]

@@imsotallytober5what do you mean it hasn’t been completed?

[@imsotallytober5]

@@divinrth5187 the collection log has not been completed.

[@divinrth5187]

@@imsotallytober5 ah yes forgot about that, basically completed though considering there are some people only a few dozen items away

[@imsotallytober5]

@@divinrth5187 a few dozen items that are 1/313,168 drop rate from a master clue. The highest amount of completed masters is 7700. Master have a 5 to 7 rolls each. If you garentee 7 rolls for all of those 7700, that's only 53,900 chances to get all of those 1/313,000 drop rate items. There are 23 of those items. With that knowledge, you see how it's logically impossible for a single person to complete the collection log.

[@abbadonmusic]

One small piece I think is important that you didn't talk about with Old School Runescape, its kind of cool you can buy premium membership via playing the game. The time investment and grind will still be the same (it's runescape), but if you are willing to just play the free side of things and skill in a regular manor, you'll basically always end up getting to the endgame, completely for free, all of it earnable.

[@lukienman]

He did talk about this, and was a main talking point for the video. In general, being able to buy membership with ingame currency also correlates to being able to use real world currency to buy some form of currency in game, which can then be sold for whatever main currency the game uses, IE $ - > Bond - > Membership. One thing OSRS does well is locking many things behind questing and playing the game. Outside of that, being able to buy and sell bonds is generally not a good thing. Yes it allows a player to pay for the game with gameplay itself, but it also allows people to come in and basically buy max gear instantaneously and devaluing the gameplay.

[@PIVfirestarkproducon]

@@lukienman to be honest, the people that buy their gear are very obvious to regular players. in fact, they're often mocked. you see them standing there in almost max gear, usually with a few very weird pieces missing, with a very specific statline that basically screams they bought their account. then they stand around the grand exchange without actually playing the game. if you leave them alone they're pretty harmless.

[@Cameron-hs5ry]

@@lukienman Tbh theres plenty of RWT sites people can (and still do) buy gold on anyways, its always been a problem with OSRS/RS and it can never be fixed as demand will always be there. Atleast with the bond system it offers people who play the game a way to get membership without paying real money. Its the only cash-shoppy/p2w mechanic I and most players are actually ok with.

[@haellm9192]

@@lukienman Hypixel skyblock also has a form of buyable ingame item, but with the economy it is basically waste of money trying to build your bank from these things because even midgame money makers make like 5-6 of those an hour

[@chazzyrs869]

@@lukienman idk how expensive stuff is on wow to buy if u was to buy max gear but buying bonds on runescape you would be looking at like £12,000 for max gear haha

[@nate3866]

As a player of both, i can chalk down the success of both games to one fundamental line, the devs give a damn about their community, there is a constant line of communication between the two, both the players and the devs work together through polls and feedback to create their ideal game. Other games just talk about this sort of thing while in reality they just ignore their playerbase and do whatever the hell they want.

[@1954BadCompany]

"and do whatever the hell they want" should say "and do whatever the shareholders tell them to do".

[@urg6923]

Case in point : Blizzard and WoW WoW keeps promising stuff the player base wants, introduce it, and the next patch they fuck it up. Wow tokens in Wrath, the Datamining of microtransactions for the trading post, and more.

[@DoktorJammified]

What I don't see often mentioned is how good XIV bosses are at visual communication. When you die you aren't left thinking "what killed me?" but "oh so that's what it does" and can do something about it next time. The mechanics are also punishing enough on normal difficulty so people pay attention to them since ignoring can cause a group wipe. Other MMOs has mechanics so unthreatening at normal level that no one bothers to do them and that makes moving up harder because you have no clue what even the base version does.

[@MarieElenaCambria1]

I completely disagree with your statement and have been in the gaming industry for a long time. Ever run a WoW 25-man raid in a dedicated static cohesive group? esp pre MOP expansion? or the new Mythic ++ which is currently a large part of E-sports with big pay outs? It took our Guild, which was US Ranked top 50+ 9 weeks to take down the last boss in WoLK Expansion in WoW. Just one boss. I have played WoW, AION and FF14 at true End game in progressive raid guilds. 90% of FF14 players are VERY Casual. WoW's end game is not casual friendly and cannot be pugged; FF14 can. FF14 took off a couple years after when WoW made major changes to the game making content much easier esp Raids (which can be done in mere days instead of many months) along with homogenizing classes etc. Blizzard made other mistakes along the way. If you correspond FF14's big growth spurt to WoW's downhill; you will see that many FF14 players went from WoW to FF14 but they were primarily casual players. Many of my gamer friends game at fairly high levels. They tried FF14 just last year and did not enjoy it. I played at launch for 1 year and did not enjoy dungeons or raids. They felt very Un-Epic in comparison to WoW or even AION and again could be easily pugged and few players ever used a VOIP; some down right refused. Again Raids or harder content in FF14 do Not have to be a static groups. In WoW at end game Good luck Not having a dedicated, static and cohesive group & a VOIP system.

[@zacharietelles7626]

@@MarieElenaCambria1- So you didn’t get to FFXIV endgame content and you’re comparing it to endgame content of WoW? You need a static for most endgame content in FFXIV as well lmao - like savage raids and ultimates. Also, most content after the base game is extremely epic and cinematic. Watch the patch trailer that dropped last night if you’re doubtful.

[@MarieElenaCambria1]

@@zacharietelles7626 I was in a top FFXIV raiding guild from the launch of the game for a good year to 18mos. As a matter of fact a significant group of my WoW raiding guild joined us and began creating a static raiding team. End Game content in WoW got stupid easy from MOP what..2012ish approximately. Now - What used to take a dedicated cohesive team in VOIP 5X per week, 5 hours per go: 3 to 4 months to complete now takes mere days. Still in Mythic WoW raids esp server first or to 3rd place guilds, to accomplish encounters one cannot pug nor complete w/o Discord or Mumble etc. It was like pulling teeth to get FF players in my Mumble server. However: Peeps Pugged FF raids right at launch. (Timing dungeons is a stupid idea and only works against players learning their class and boss rotations well. "Lets Zerg" esp since So many FF players have never played a dynamic tab target type game with Tanks and Heals for example and mages thought they were the tank or an Assassin type class who has never once tanked. ) All this made raiding (when we were still building our team) a cluster frack. We *all* left FF including friends from WoW we met along the way who were then playing FF. You can't compare WoLK ICC or BC Sunwell even a smidgen to FF raids (the epic-ness or difficult esp working as a team because one mistake from one player is a wipe), or even the harder bosses the last few expansions in "easier content" even on normal mode, which a child could be carried through. Why not google the LK fight or the bosses in Sunwell that split guilds? Then there is the gruesome but very fun raid boss, Yogg-Saron, in WOLK"s Ulduar, and Archimonde in Hellfire Citadel. If you google world first kills on these bosses they are very impressive to watch. Perhaps you did not read my full comment(s)? Shalom

[@ZeraKonno]

@@MarieElenaCambria1 I’m with the other guy. You say you’ve only played at LAUNCH. Everyone knows LAUNCH was absolutely terrible and it wasn’t until A Realm Reborn that truly brought the game back. It wasn’t perfect but it revived the game. Yes 90% of us are mainly casual but we do tend to dabble a few times into the endgame raids and such. Now here’s the thing. You CANNOT compare LAUNCH XIV raids to WoW. You have to compare at least up to Heavensward and up. Hell look at the most recent raids and tell me they’re still not epic or players don’t understand the holy Trinity of three roles. Again you’re comparing your LAUNCH experience and not the current state of FFXIV savage and ultimate raiding. I’m a filthy casual but I go into raids because there’s stuff I want and I sure as hell will take as long as I need to learn what I need. I will say though finding groups to do it is still pretty much hard to find at times. Groups claiming to teach new raiders for some odd reason lie or they only want people who have done the raid before. Sure why not join a raiding guild, I have no experience in guilds in FFXIV. I mainly played with my four group and joined others. I only have experience in a regular guild and they sometimes host raids as well. My points being. XIV raids are way better than you think at the ACTUAL ENDGAME

[@BlazeLibra]

"oh so that indicator was an entire _building,_ I see I see"

[@echo3996]

On GW2 most of the cosmetics are unlocked doing achievements and in the world. The cash shop has a lot of really good ones like backpacks mostly but it has a lot of convenience items then again you can make gold then just swap said gold to gems and buy whatever you want. Also, with the new expansion release now you can buy the good cosmetics on the daily point shop which was not there before.

[@slowpoison7800]

its definetly going in right direction but there are so many small inconvinence that are mostly just locked in cash shop. which is to be expected in a way since it doesnot have subscription model.

[@echo3996]

@@slowpoison7800 what is locked behind the cash shop?

[@slowpoison7800]

@@echo3996 equipment template, build templates, bag slots, infinite gathering tools, and these feel bad as they are character bound. Gw2 is my favourite game but i don't like this aspect of game eventhough u can convert gold->gems to buy them.

[@echo3996]

@@slowpoison7800 All those you can get by buying gems with gold. You can exchange gold you make in the game for gems, and now you can buy everything except for gathering tools on the new daily they made with the last expansion.

[@mr_bubbleg8953]

@@slowpoison7800ah yes, give everything for free, surely the game would be up today if that was the case

[@lorebiter]

I think it’s very notable that FFXIV’s cash shop cosmetics largely consist of items that are very casual looking (e.g. hoodie with cat ears) or based on an existing character’s outfit. Actually looking cool comes from the game; the cash shop is more for looking goofy.

[@goldenhate6649]

Or looking like a stripper in downtown lolol

[@OddManeuver]

Also, this may be just my experience, but it doesn’t seem like the cash shop is advertised a lot. There’s a clear barrier between it and the game. The closest it gets is the “try before you buy” system that was added to the inn very recently. I do think some of the items are over priced, but because I can try them on I don’t usually feel buyers remorse.

[@danlorett2184]

Oh, so it's the opposite of retail WoW. Gotcha.

[@JRileyD]

Yeah looking like cloud with fenrir is so goofy.

[@zeehero7280]

Yeah I've been playing for several years and I've only ever bought a couple of cosmetic items in that time, I think mainly the angel outfit for the boots, and a couple becuase they came with hairstyles I wanted that you could only unlock that way. Although now I use the Pyros hairstyle earnable in game almost always.

[@JSpyx]

I took a break from FF14 for over a year after about 4 years of non-stop playing. Was refreshing to play again after this break because I was just burned out. And the great thing about FF14 is that it's fairly easy to catch up again. A big example is, most of the main armors and weapons that come from raids are collectable a lot easier later on when they become sort of "absolete" and the new set is out. So you are always able to get sets at any point in time without being in fear of having missed out on raids.

[@thecubeheadguy6747]

is that a story based and single player game, or a full multyplayer game to play with friends?

[@dsan17]

I'm still on my break. Now that I'm back into gaming, I'm just waiting for the graphics update before jumping back in. Hopefully around 6 months after Daiblo 4 release (2024)

[@katolight8006]

@@dsan17 7.0 is when the graphics update comes out. maybe not even right at 7.0, we still have another year or so before that happens.

[@dsan17]

@@katolight8006 I hope they drop a really big story if it's that long in the future. That way I'll have weeks of gameplay just playing the story.

[@seonteeaika]

@@thecubeheadguy6747 You don't need to have any friends to play FF14, but you do need to match up with random people to do dungeons or trials occasionally. Although all basic dungeons can be done with NPC group up to level 90 now there are also some that you can't. Besides the experience in them is better with players and they haven't tuned the difficulty to as hard as it is in WoW perhaps. Because there are people who play on PS5 or game controllers too and they might need that handicap. They are on same servers as PC players.

[@_ShadoE_]

You are right about the 3 year wait for xpac for GW2 but are you going to ignore the 8-10 new maps and stories that came with those maps for GW2 as well. Those are notable achievements for the game not to mention that you got 2 unique mounts along with that and all of that was free so long as you were playing the game, I think you kinda down played what Anet was doing with the game in that time.

[@masturbeast7904]

And seasons + maps that come with ;)

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

Yep, people always underrated Anet work, especially since the game is the cheapest out of all mmo. Personally, I paid like 150$ at worst (I used the cash shop few time) to have all the content since 2012. 10 years of content that is not dead and still valuable. Quality/price wise, GW2 is the GOAT.

[@masturbeast7904]

@@JearbearDC they are actually planning to restructured some WvW content, i'm not aware about it but still, you can check it out ;)

[@nurhidayattaib398]

i like the serious business of the main story quests and then on the other end of the spectrum, you have this series of sidequests known as Hildibrand Manderville, in which the tone and environment of it is like a complete 180 turn the immersion of worldbuilding and storytelling in final fantasy 14 is completely amazing

[@gwyndolinschnee7015]

Ah yes, HIldibrand quests.

[@SubduedRadical]

Oh, one other thing: It's also how blunt/apparent (and immersion breaking) the cash shop is. I remember in RIFT when I tried it, the cash shop was at the login and at every in-game vendor. The same thing when I tried GW2 a year or two ago. LOTRO, too. FFXIV has a cash shop, but other than seeing it along with news entries in the splash on the launcher, it doesn't exist in the game. You don't see it in the game, it's not in your face in the game, and the closest in-game representation is you can use the inn-room bed to try on items from the cash shop if you want to see what they'd look like on your character, which was the only thing Yoshi P would agree to do for the SE cash shop big-wigs. You can't even access the shop from that. So the shop not only is fairly minimal, but it's not constantly intruding into your gameplay experience.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

Correct. I’ve purchased from the cash shop (mostly music and minions) simply because I wanted to support the game more. I play nearly every day, but only for a half hour or sometimes hour, which both moves me towards my goals and doesn’t burn me out. I could never manage that back in my WoW days.

[@studiesinflux1304]

Oh definitely, especially on free-to-play games. Each time I get a rare but also tradeable item, I think of how much real-world money it could have cost to get the item. (There's usually a complex path for games that say they're "not pay to win", being: real money -> premium currency -> loot boxes -> probability of loot box pulls getting you a rare tradeable cosmetic or pay to win upgrade item -> in-game gold cost of the upgrade item -> in-game gold cost of the item I got). Then I see in-game chat of "oh it's not pay to win, it's not that bad", and I think those poor victims of the marketing...

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

Wait, the gem store bothers you in Guild Wars 2? I don't ever notice it. The login rewards do not take you to the store, but to the achievement screen...

[@SubduedRadical]

@@miguelcondadoolivar5149 I haven't played it in some months, but I remember seeing it when looking at crafting stuff and the transmog screen, among other things. Cash shops are, in general, one of the most immersion breaking things to me. So not only do I notice them whenever they're AT ALL intrusive, but they shatter my sense of "game world" when they do. It was weird seeing it for vendors and looking at screens that honestly shouldn't have had anything to do with it. I think it was also noticeable with those lockbox things where you have to buy the keys to open them. Like why even have the boxes as an in GAME item drop if you have to go to the CASH SHOP to buy the keys? Why not just have the chests as a CASH SHOP item (since that's what they are) and only have the bosses drop loot I can access in game without going to the cash shop?

[@SubduedRadical]

@@TheSpicyLeg Exactly. I'm willing to spend some money here and there to support a game I like - especially if I know it's not got a sub keeping it going - since I'm enough of a capitalist to understand "If I give these people some of my money, they'll keep making content and game that I like, while if they get no money, they have to shut down and I don't get those things that I like". But if it's in my face all the time, not only does it break immersion making it feel less like an immersive game world I can lose myself in (the thing I like), but it also feels just...needy and greedy and scummy somehow. FFXIV has a cash shop, but they make sure it's out of the way. It's there if you want it, but you can completely ignore it and it isn't knocking on your door every five minutes.

[@cripplemadewhole]

I've been playing FF14 for just over a year now. I have a full-time job and largely would be the definition of a casual player. I've taken month-long breaks from it when real life needs more attention or other games grab my interest. I always come back because there is always something cool I can get even with my limited time. At one point I got burnt out on the story and became a crafter for a month, played the market board and got in bidding wars with other players. At no point did I feel punished or have FOMO because of that diversion. It actually complimented and enhanced my main story gameplay because then I could craft my own gear and feel the accomplishment of completing quests in armor I made. The game rewards your diversions into side content and getting lost in the world and makes them part of the main experience rather than just random tangents that never matter again. But, you also don't need to do them all to get great enjoyment from the game. It's an impressively hard line to walk and I hope Yoshi-P and his team keep doing it well cause if so they've earned my sub for the life of the game.

[@lobstr_lord9212]

I agree! I have been playing for 4 years and in my first playthrough I "rushed" to catch up to current content. I skipped all side quests that did not unlock something and while I watched the cutscenes I did not really pay attention because I was too excited for the next Dungeon. I made an alt this week and decided I would play through the story and do ALL the quests as I came up to them. It's almost like a whole new game. I love that this game gives you an option on how you want to play (except if you want endgame content you DO have to play the entire story) and you don't miss out on anything.

[@ST3V3fic]

When I saw the title I knew it was either gonna be about OSRS or FFXIV. For OSRS the lead Mod that developed, it let everyone in the company (including CEO and investors) know, that players would rather see the game die then see Microtransactions in it. and that seems to be helping a lot.

[@kristijannikolic307]

I love OSRS, but i am confused because you can literally buy bonds and sell them for in game gold. This game has the most raw and pure form of micro transaction in the form of basically buying in game gold from the DEVS. SO I am confused how everyone thinks runescape does not have these?

[@ST3V3fic]

@kristijannikolic307 You are paying for someone else's membership and getting rewarded for it. This doesn't make ingame money come out of nowhere. It's the only form of microtransaction that is tolerated because it allows other players to play the game for free by buying bonds with in-game money.

[@kristijannikolic307]

@@ST3V3fic Okay sure, But your missing my point. If I wanted to buy a 1 billion OSRS gold item, I could login right now make a fresh account and just buy 2 grand worth of bonds and sell them instantly and boom I have 1 billion OSRS coins.. so what are you trying to say?

[@ST3V3fic]

@kristijannikolic307 That's not a bad thing. You just helped hundreds of players in the process. Why is that a bad microtransaction?

[@kristijannikolic307]

@@ST3V3fic Right but the definition of pay to win microtransactions is something that gives you the ability to skip many hours of game play by using real life currency and clearly you don't understand that.

[@bbymads]

not ff14 related exactly, but your explanation on monetization with mmo’s was super spot on. i found myself having these exact thoughts when i got back into destiny 2 recently. destiny is a fave of mine back in the day, but seeing that they added a “season pass” which is more or less pay to win and exceedingly expensive expansions just turns me away. it makes me super sad to see. i would so much rather pay a monthly sub if the game i received was polished and receiving updates. destiny’s approach to hiding cosmetics like exotic weapons behind a pay wall is really frustrating, especially when players have expressed their frustration with the new pay model and disappointments in recent expansions… and then they remove old content, make the game notoriously difficult for new players, and market the game as ‘free to play’. ff14 has it right - allowing new players the opportunity to experience the game before committing to a monthly sub, at which point the player is invested in such a great game.

[@christianvalente3376]

Destiny 2 season pass is "pay to win" girl what are you smoking. None of the rewards on the battle pass track are really worth anything, it's just starter gear. You're paying for the seasonal content and a couple cosmetics.

[@bbymads]

@@christianvalente3376 you’re literally ignoring everything else i’m saying but (:

[@EosDoesStuff]

My big gripe with Destiny 2, as someone who loved it (started when Forsaken was current) is the vaulting of expansions. I paid for this expansion and I'm just... not allowed to play it anymore if I decide to make an alt (or just want to replay the story). It's pretty much a NECESSITY nowadays for new players to watch lore videos because they literally cannot access that lore in game.

[@Clogmonger]

Destiny has always- since the first one- been a shallow empty ass game with stripped content being sold as dlc.

[@dacypher22]

I can't play F2P games anymore. The only MMO I play is FFXIV because, just like he said, I pay a fair price for a complete game. F2P games pile so many inconveniences on you and most people can only pay to bypass the ones that irritate them the most since most F2P MMOs would literally cost thousands of dollars to play a month if you wanted everything as maximally efficient as possible. So you pay some to negate some of the roadblocks the devs put in your way on purpose and you suck it up and deal with the rest. That isn't fun. And it isn't the way to keep players around long-term

[@philmoregain]

OSRS is my favorite game ever, there is so much different stuff to do and it is always pure nostalgic for me.

[@albanybestdrumline]

@@Pooky_x that’s why everyone including me quits for a year or 2 and comes back lmao

[@philmoregain]

@@Pooky_x get yourself 1 law 3 air and 1 earth rune teleport to lumbridge with sound on. BOOM nostalgia.

[@CopeAndSeeth]

​@@Pooky_x enjoy your break!

[@philmoregain]

@@riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip there were 120k+ people online on the weekend, that are release year numbers

[@ElixirOfEuphoria]

​@@riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip Dead comment

[@WordsOfTheTeacher]

Love seeing at least a little GW2 praise at the beginning, I half expected it to be one of the two you said were bucking the trend (especially since you did acknowledge in recent years it has done that, so technically there's 3 going up). Honestly THE game to me, like you said they've just been doing a lot right recently and recommitted to the game. Hell, I'd say they feel more committed to keeping this game going for a long time than they EVER have

[@WordsOfTheTeacher]

@@datboi04 I don't disagree they've made a lot of blunders but I think in spite of that they still have an excellent product that's hovered in or around the top 5 for a decade, although not really part of the big three, no. I also think that genuinely now is possibly the best time for the game ever. Well, not so much RIGHT NOW as where it's headed. Because like you said they're having to waste a lot of time restoring old content in the here and now. But they confirmed a fourth expansion less than a month after the third, that's by far the fastest they've ever done. And whatever those secret projects they had were, they've fallen through which hurt the studio yes, but it also finally got it through their thick skulls that they already have an epic game, but they aren't committing enough to it. Announcing xpac 4 so fast as well as other investments such as returning season 1 and steam and directx11 all scream long term investment. Only now, ten years in, are they making the big investments into the future they should've done years back. It sucks that they took so long and they may not be able to reverse all the damage they've done, you are right. But still, the game is pretty great and it's finally after all this time on the truly great path it should've always been. Also Cantha was awesome and easily the best expansion, it sucks Kaineng is so light on NPCs (a performance thing? idk why it's so empty) but I wouldn't call it a dead expansion or significantly lacking compared to the first two, I happen to like it best.

[@GettingAids1997]

@@datboi04 just came back to GW2 after 10 years. It is great. FF14's gameplay is incredibly boring.

[@nekoschar6170]

ive been a big fan of gw2 for around a year now its chill vibes no power creep most the progression is skill based i vibe with it

[@gwpeoples]

I recently started playing GW2 and it's been fun so far. I tried getting into FF14 but getting to level 60 is an absolute slog, I hated the main quest and tapped out around lv 29. Also the weird toddlers creeped me out.

[@FeintToParry]

I love GW2 but only play WvW mode. Just wish they’d actually put in some effort on that front…

[@MyDailyEcho]

I've tried WOW, FF, ESO, BDO and GW2. From all of them, my most enjoyable and still playing, is Guild Wars 2. I would reccomend to try it if you havent find your MMORPG yet.

[@stark8363]

Just started playing a week or two ago finishing season 1 Of living world after finishing personal story it’s fucking good but I wanna get a group to play dungeons with

[@DWLongshot]

I played wow for 10 years left after WOD came back for BFA and then left again thinking of coming back for dragon flight have herd a lot of good things about it

[@quantaluxvision]

I remember when they first announced guild wars 2 and the devs said that "when you saved a village, it stays saved." My roommate and I were so excited for that!

[@Lpd_n]

The only MMO that earned my heart

[@DWLongshot]

Never got into it… played wow for like 10 years stopped playing that right before shadowlands came out and haven’t really played a MMORPG besides neverwinter on my Xbox every once in a while, keep hearing it’s good ima have to try out guild wars 2

[@verxintRising]

MMOs destroying their game for the sake of monetization is one of the biggest challenges with getting friends to try FFXIV, because they just assume any MMO operates like that and often refuse to believe that one doesn't until I finally get them to give it a try.

[@rickniu4153]

I feel like you really discredited GW2's expansions/content. Sure, their expansion took 3 years, but most other games also take about that same amount of time. But between the previous expansion and the current, they've givenSeason 4 Living Worlds and the entire Icebrood Saga. That's 12 mini expansions, each with a new zone, new cosmetics, new metas, new achievements, more story all for free. Not even gonna count the amount of holidays/festivals and old content revamps they throw in too.

[@umbriel84]

and with NO monthly sub, might I add

[@7BitBrian]

This video was a FF14 ad, he even forgot to talk about Old School Runescape at all when he mentions it as also growing. This is a FF14 fluff video and that's all, it's primary focus was to point out flaws in other games and highlight positives in FF14.

[@Name.is2]

@@7BitBrian pretty much, I’ve tried so many times to try to get into FFXIV but the game doesn’t feel like a mmo. Playing it makes me feel like I’m playing .hack games due to how the world doesn’t have any sense of immersion. Mobs just set around at random and the maps feels very restricted even after flying.

[@TheDeFiler316]

He called Destiny 2 an MMO. That alone discredits this video.

[@tejasshastha5457]

@@TheDeFiler316i get where you're coming from, but many do consider destiny moving into that mmo category, even the devs sometimes.

[@FragariaNoKami777]

As someone who loves video games to death and was raised on them, FFXIV for me is a beautiful discovery. I’ve made so many friends and memories, and the best part is that I go and play other games with the friends that I’ve made. Sometimes we leave for weeks on end and go do random stuff or just because of real life, but when we come back it’s still the same lovely feel as it was before and that to me is why FFXIV is succeeding so much.

[@RyanJ_24]

Is there a healing class? I healed in WoW years ago and if FFXIV has a healing class/spec I may give it a shot if my computer can handle it.

[@FragariaNoKami777]

@@RyanJ_24 There are actually 4 healing classes right now! as i like to put it, 4 flavors to choose from. Here's a video to explain if you'd rather not read my little essay: kzbin.info/www/bejne/paTZhoKnmqmqepI Conjurer/White Mage - the most basic healer, you can start the game as a conjurer and if its to your liking you probably won't leave the class. They heal when a buddy is hurt and dps when they're not. Regen heaven Scholar - the other basic healer, but you'll have to play and level the basic class Arcanist in order to unlock the job Scholar. They put shields and other defensive buffs on party members so they can spend more time dpsing Astrologian - Regen, but now there's stars and tarot cards n stuff. You can fill the boss arena with enough space dust and stars that everyone will need 5 layers of sunglasses to see. Also you get to build a bomb (don't worry, it's friendly). Sage - the new kid who has 4 lazer guns and heals a designated party member by attacking enemies. More shields for your healing anxiety so you can spend more time shooting lazers. I explain terribly pls watch the video it helps i swear

[@RyanJ_24]

@@FragariaNoKami777 thanks for this!

[@niedas3426]

@@RyanJ_24 Also just to clarify, you can switch back and forth between classes at any time you're not in a raid or dungeon. You can do a main story quest as a warrior and then decide you want to go level your astrologian, so you press the astrologian button and go queue for a dungeon. After the dungeon, you can switch to reaper and go farm some overworld events. Essentially, you have one character on which you can level all jobs individually. No alts, no specs that you have to really commit into. If you find you are not enjoying the job you started with, you can always go unlock and play others. Balance is also great, everything is viable.

[@RyanJ_24]

@@niedas3426 thank you SO much I didn’t know that. Not used to that flexibility. That’s really cool. I am enjoying it so far. Just a few levels in but finding it enjoyable. Thanks for breaking it down for me. I appreciate it!

[@petersilktube]

I think it can't be ignored just how invested in the story the player base is for FFXIV at this point. I will likely have a FFXIV sub for as long as the game exists, now, because I know every few months I'll get to continue the story, and in between there'll be enough new stuff to play with to at least justify the subscription. I recently started playing ESO and I've been pleasantly surprised - mostly by how much of the story experience of a regular Elder Scrolls game it gives me. I'm getting quite invested in it, but the structure is very different. ESO places as much importance in its side quests as its main quests, so it feels a lot less linear in how you progress through it. But when I looked online, for example, on youtube for what people are saying about the game suddenly I've noticed the difference between ESO's community and FFXIV. This is a massive generalisation but FFXIV fans really care about all the content. Endgame trials and raids, theorycraft, sure but also cosmetics and housing and story developments and lore and side-systems that have nothing to do with anything else. The meme is that 'x is the real FFXIV endgame' where x is glamour or housing or roleplaying or whatever. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, but so much of the discussion of ESO online that I've been able to find is around endgame builds, PvP/PvE meta and so forth. I found the Tales of Tribute card game they added to be a rather nice and well designed diversion, for example, but when I looked to see what a lot of people's opinion was of it, it was that it was a waste of time and resources. Something you rarely heard about... say... additions to the Gold Saucer in FFXIV, or Island Sanctuary. People might criticise the implementation of these systems but they're always excited about them existing. So I find myself in a funny spot where I'm enjoying ESO in the same way that I enjoy FFXIV - in my own way and without too much regard to what I'll be doing once I hit the level cap, and with a focus on story and side-content... but even though the game amply provides for players like me - arguably even more so than FFXIV as all the group content is entirely optional, it feels a bit like the community isn't interested in that sort of player. Again, I might be way off here or just looking in all the wrong places, that's just been my early impression, a couple of weeks in.

[@arisuaozora]

If ffxiv is so good , why play eso? Just stay with the god mmo

[@arisuaozora]

@Kimi Timoskainen other games start to bore you then you return to ffxiv? Then why leave ffxiv? Coz it bores you? Come on , its a god mmo wasnt it?? If is good whats the point of playing other games since ffxiv have infinite contents??

[@petersilktube]

@@arisuaozora I think other people have more or less covered this, but yeah... it's possible to do two different things for different reasons. For example some stuff I really like about ESO that you don't get much of in FFXIV, is ... the flexibility in how you build your character, the exploration aspects of the game, the amount of good side quest content. It's also refreshing just to play in a different world with different stories and lore. It may shock you but... I like two things.

[@lorebiter]

Absolutely yeah. I can't imagine thinking "Nah, I don't care what happens to these people anymore" unless the writing took an absolute nosedive.

[@DawnAfternoon]

@@arisuaozora Is this a bait? MMOs that force you to play it all the time is destined to burn you out. That's the whole point of MMOs letting you take a break in the first place.

[@mitchhaelann9215]

The economy is struggling, people are working themselves to death and have no free time to play games, and nobody can afford luxury expenses like game subscriptions right now. Add on predatory monetization and exploitative practices, and being a gamer has never been more expensive.

[@301SO]

The fact that ff14s cash shop can't be accessed in game. That you have to go through a browser just to buy something tells you what they think about p2w

[@ShojiKareza]

I mean, if u search hard enough, yoship himself announced the cash shop has no pay-2-win.

[@andrebaxter4023]

Aside from that, all of the items that you get from the cash shop are purely cosmetic. Nothing there will give you an advantage in raiding or making in-game money.

[@jasem1016]

Its not even on purpose most likely. Its a fucking pain to actually buy the game and play it. They just did the same with the shop

[@doa7351]

Fantastic video! Something I wanted to add is that the community in 14 is very new player friendly, and most people would absolutely LOVE to walk through the msq again with you if you're new. We LOVE to see new players experience the story, so if you're worried about going through the story alone to catch up with friends, ask them to tag along or stream the game on discord for them. There's a good chance they'd love to do so.

[@RothAnim]

Yeah, I think some of that is the game's mechanics being less competitive than WoW's: no PvP factions dividing the player base, no penalties for helping/being helped by another player, no competing for crafting materials. Also, the game is much less grindy, so you don't have veterans quitting the dungeon when a new player joins for the first time. You can really see how that grind affects even a chill player base if you think about the Main Scenario 8-man dungeons at the end of ARR. Glad they eliminated those.

[@shinozsnow]

I love seeing people's reaction to the story. People love the story so much that they even put in new game plus, so people like me can go back through it again without having to make a new character.

[@mikeg5039]

I just hope every mmo lives a long life if there are players just keep em online. I miss wildstar so much

[@fulgerion]

I never got to play Wildstar after being so bummed about losing Star Wars Galaxies and City of Heroes. I was NOT happy with NCSoft at all. I really wanted to play Wildstar. But the shock of losing City of Heroes caused too much resentment for the company. Starting a new game under their name just reminded me the pain of losing Paragon City, the world's greatest comic book MMORPG

[@darschpugs4690]

@Spacellary They were getting ready to shut XI down a few years back Rhapsodies of Vanadiel was to be the game's one last hurrah ( and it is a masterpiece of a story) and the game entered maintenance mode ready to pull the plug but rising player numbers just prior and during the onset of covid changed their minds and they even started updating the game again bringing new if small content patches. It has been discussed in several interviews where they talked about it and have decided as long as enough players are paying to keep the servers on they will keep it running indefinitely. They joking said they hope to see it go another 20 years if they can keep developers for it since most of the team put their careers and lives on hold and sacrificed to see XI hit the 20 year mark..

[@Attackmewithwater]

@@fulgerion The game is still kicking but nothing compares to when the game was live. I wish another company bought it and saw the potential. CoH was ahead of its time since comic book heroes/marvel was just taking off at the same time.

[@Zidoco]

World of Warcraft was an excellent game because of the developer's passion to create. The built a world they loved and wanted to explore with a history that was first established in 1994 and was fleshed out through the "warcraft" games until books truly built a world leading into the "World of Warcraft" through and through it was a passion project. What killed the game wasn't just that items ended up on a cash shop. It was the acquisition of Blizzard by Activision. That 'thing' took a great game and threw it into the meat grinder in order to milk every last drop out of Blizzard. You'll notice that around that same time in 08-09 they stopped releasing those awesome World of Warcraft commercials on TV. Wrath of the Lich king is considered one of the better expansions simply because of the depth of the game and the foundation that was built through years of love and care for the game. Then Activision bought them out and player interest declined because the love wasn't there anymore. They started pushing out the OG's that made the game what it was. Which is why now World of Warcraft is only 'WoW' in title alone.

[@brodi5367]

It's unreasonable to think any game can hold its players indefinitely.

[@dharcsu]

so best try milk them as fast as possible before they quit.

[@keiichimorisato98]

Ffxiv doesn't even try, it retains players by letting them leave, I personally haven't played in 6 months, but inhale every intention of coming back soon.

[@patchess5488]

@@vivifell Skyrim is single player, ESO is very young.

[@Salt_Mage]

ESO came out in 2014. That’s 8 years ago.

[@CD-vb9fi]

And this is probably the single biggest sin of MMO's. The constant attempt to keep players active. It just becomes another job. I would rather pay $20 a month for an MMO and enjoy it within a year (not longer). I don't want to play a game where it takes a whole month to just get anywhere in the game. If I can't start enjoying end game content with 100 hours of game play... I am not likely going to be interested. Not saying it can't be achieved, but I am still waiting for someone to do it.

[@derbudz]

The decline of the gaming culture always have something to do with a Horse. That's interesting. First DLC behind a paywall: A horse Skin in Elder Scrolls First cosmetic behind a paywall in the (to this day) biggest MMO ever: A flying Horse

[@aircraftcarrierwo-class]

FFXIV is also one of Square-Enix's largest moneymakers right now, which is a large part of why the CEO and other officers don't try to tell YoshiP and his team what to do. Their mentality is "Whatever they're doing, it's clearly working." So FFIXV has a minimum of high-level corporate meddling.

[@884tomato]

warframe might not be an open world mmo, yet it's player base is also not decaying but growing

[@luminous8815]

I think another thing that helps FFXIV is it’s "status" I guess?? as a Final Fantasy game. The story, game, world, etc., in itself can be a standalone for players new to the franchise, but for longtime FF fans it’s awesome to see some of the references/“recreations” of their favourite past FFs

[@Banzai51]

I think this is a great point. I've been disappointed in all the "free" MMOs because I know it ends up being more expensive. But there is another reason for the decline in MMO populations: WoW destroyed innovation in the MMO space. We're only now starting to see MMO development shake off its WoW addiction.

[@milesbush9589]

It's worth noting that FFXIV is free up to level 60. this has given me personally over 80 hours of content and I haven't even scratched the surface of tons of the content available to me, I've only levelled one job to 60, I haven't delved into crafting at all yet, theres dozens of optional Dungeons and Trials I haven't even touched yet, I havent gotten into Glamours or Mounts or Minions or any of the other cosmetics yet, I haven't spent time at the Golden Saucer playing the minigames. FFXIV Is the best free MMO I've ever played despite being subscription based

[@anteprs7908]

@@milesbush9589 that a nitch mmo market

[@brantonmoore]

While I do think you're right in that OSRS and FF14 are both doing things right within the current-day MMORPG space it was kind of a bummer to me that you spent most of the video exploring the details of FF14's journey and OSRS didn't even get glossed through. You made a very accurate representation of the situation, just would have liked you to present the details of both standout titles. Cheers and wish ya the best!

[@offensiveyeet]

BRO IM SAYIN I came to the comments to say the same thing; FF14 is a fine MMO but damn if OSRS hasn’t for years over and over proven to be an anomaly and clear cut ahead of the rest in terms of growth; community interaction/dedication and interesting fun content.

[@Vinscotti]

Osrs is old and boring nothing to talk about it's not even osrs anymore

[@offensiveyeet]

@@Vinscotti lmfao they just released tombs of amascut last month? Booming economy with new weapons and armor; they released fresh start worlds (brand new economy brand new accounts that translate to main game after 6 months) the released quest speedrunning; are reworking wilderness bosses and weapons and running a poll as we speak. You are extremely wrong. If you wanna stay where whip is BIS idk what to tell you, but they have done An amazing job making this game full and modern but letting it keep its nostalgia factor with HUGE QOL Improvements

[@itzrixis1919]

end of the video he says he will make another video talking about osrs

[@brantonmoore]

@@itzrixis1919 True, but FF14 got a whole essay in this vid. I just think it would have fit more smoothly to have them both in the same vid.

[@Niklas.Kirchner]

I remember getting emperor in ESO as a 16 year old in his summer break. Still the coolest gaming archivment i have.

[@bare_bear_hands]

Started playing Guild Wars 2, and can say, it is quite well done - the systems are great, combat style is exactly what the genre asks for (exact same as ESO, too), and the Personal Quest part is quite interesting. Also, the de-leveling. I'm almost at lvl 40, but the game keeps me at the max lvl of any region so I have to actually fight properly instead of rampaging through it all.

[@bare_bear_hands]

@@rabmcglinchy7959 You will still notice a huge difference between a real lvl 5 player and a de-leveled lvl 80 max power character. Besides, this is how they enable world bosses very early on: these bosses appear as early as lvl 15 regions, so everyone can participate. You still get stronger, but you just can't run around the place instantly deleting all enemies. Even WoW adopted this, because in the past you'd get to max lvl and then 1-shot the entirety of Westfall, and that isn't entertaining. All regions of the game feel rewarding and worth exploring. Oh, the loot is scaled to your level too, so you're never getting "real" trash, as most of the loot is being recycled for materials.

[@medivh1035]

It is a great game except the art style is not for me... So l don't play it mainly

[@queenC6969]

@Rab McGlinchy it’s to prevent a player on oneshoting mini world bosses. So it gives some time for other players to hop in and get stuffs and enjoy the action hence their level differences. Plus it helps the newbies get some exps and level up.

[@queenC6969]

@Rab McGlinchy your dps are still noticeable when it comes to world event bosses anyways it just scale down each maps. But for dungeons, Fractals, Raids etc. you’ll definitely shine there.

[@Hiimzed4943]

ESO combat is the most uninspired, boring trash. GW does it right.

[@mwcesto8105]

It would have been interesting to explore the idea of the WoW token in relation to OSRS. You mention it's one of the biggest flaws in WoW, but OSRS, which is one of the only two growing MMOs stated, uses the same system.

[@promero14]

Tokens in Osrs is not p2w. It can help a little but it no way it's the intended way to play the game. I bought a couple of them as a returning player just to get base 40 in all skills fast and some armor/wep then I procede to play the game normally. Tokens are way too expensive.

[@BrolympicBWL]

It’s a major issue in RS3, luckily the membership is shared in both versions of Runescape. RS3 acts like a buffer for OSRS, inflation is crazy in RS3

[@RandyTheB_]

Runescape has the weirdest in game economics, in that you can apply real world economics in game to scale, including scams and pump and dumps. To be honest I feel that's why it still retains a lot of its player base, as the economics of the GE has generated more fun stories and memories for me than anything else.

[@MeandMonkeyLP]

@@promero14 Tokens in WoW arent either, there isnt anything in WoW that you can buy with gold that better than what you can earn with playing the game

[@Ztaticify]

I'm not sure how the reception in WoW was, but in OSRS bonds were probably more welcome because one of the game's major problems is botting and Real World Trading (buying in-game stuff with real money). Introducing a way for players to "buy" gold through sellable membership cut down on the appeal of sketchy third parties, which cut down on the amount of items entering the game from botters, which cut down on inflation of those items. Also bonds themselves don't act as a source of resources/gear/exp/etc which further prevents them from causing inflation. As a result, the in-game items have held their value high enough that for the majority of players it isn't even a consideration to buy them with bonds (for instance one of the most sought after weapons is the twisted bow, worth about 1bil or ~1000 usd.) Either that or so much of the player base is ironman that the negative impact isn't felt by enough of the player base to be a problem.

[@gdoubleu8045]

I'm still amazed Guild Wars 2 has maintained the quality it has with no sub fees. Especially since you can buy all the 'cash' shop items with gold conversion if you're a dedicated player.

[@lm4122]

gw2 actually aged pretty bad overall, its a pve spam to win game spvp and wvw were ruined ages ago, i recommend it for players that want to try their 1st mmo only.

[@Egghead012]

​@@lm4122 That's a horrendously inaccurate statement about the state of Guild Wars 2. There is no such thing as this "pve spam to win game" clearly you don't understand that the pve content is meant to be grinded.

[@NoBuddy89]

@@lm4122 Stop treating games as a job to grind. GW2 is more alive than ever, and yeah the devs could do well with giving pvp some damn love. But GW2 was the mmo that taught me to enjoy a game for its gameplay and not for what I can "achieve" just like FFXIV showed me how a truly amazing story can turn the worlds most mediocre boss arena simulator into one of the best games ever made.

[@Microtardz]

@@NoBuddy89 > GW2 is more alive than ever Factually wrong in every possible way. Dungeon running is dead. Fractals are dead. Raiding is dead. WvW is still sitting there half-dead with copious amounts copium that factions will somehow fix the issues (they won't). And SPvP is a meme. We haven't gotten a new dungeon in literally ever. We've gotten like 1 "new" fractal like 3 years ago. We haven't gotten a new raid since 2019. Everyone actually good at World vs World fighting quit ages ago because the devs did nothing to fix the massive population imbalances, other than making the game mode objectively worse with all the stupid overpowered upgrades that make it nearly impossible to take keeps/sm in an even fight. Idk what kind of copium you need to believe that the game is more alive than ever, but please hand me some.

[@All-SeeingGuy]

@@Microtardz Dungeons and Raids aren't *really* the endgame focus of GW2, they're just another option and this is a good thing. Games like WoW (I'm assuming you're a blizzdrone because of your pfp) end up with dead open worlds because there's basically no point to doing anything but queueing for mythics and raids over and over, and the fact that you'll never see anybody from that pug ever again also means MMOs that do this basically have 0 community. GW2 has map metas that require just about everyone in the map to participate instead, and you're fairly likely to meet familiar faces especially if you're playing in that map a lot. Imo, this is a vastly superior form of group content because I never have to deal with some 'genius' that queued 8 minutes before he has to leave for work demanding a speedrun or unfun sweatlords in general. It also helps build communities, I've seen entire guilds made based around specific map meta events like Tangled Depths. As for your WvW point, it did stagnate for awhile, but the WvW playerbase has remained as active as ever. On top of this, they've just recently begun overhauling WvW to be more guild-centric, easier to participate in with friends, and more rewarding in general, so actually lately I'd say it's become even *more* active. Your comment reeks of the specific strain of terminal autism belonging to a WoW addict, so enjoy your new WoW expansion where they had to straight up rip off some GW2 mechanics to save your dying shitheap.

[@terryb9197]

one of the things I love about FF14 is the gear acquisition. Because theres no pay to win mechs whenever you see someone with good gear you know they earned it. And when clearing savages and ultimates is the way to do that, its a real accomplishment. And thats made even better by the fact the BiS gear isnt mandatory, crafted sets can get people by just fine so theres no elitism when it comes to roulettes or dungeons, etc

[@Norbert_Sattler]

Something else worth pointing out about trial and dungeon difficults is that when you go up in difficulty it is not just giving the enemies more HP and damage. Bosses will get additional mechanics and in some dungeons the higher difficulty sends you into entirely different parts of the area with different bosses than the lower one. Just take one of the starter dungeons Sastasha as an example. On normal the final boss is a Sahagin (fish-man) that sometimes brings in adds if you don't shut off vents. In hard-mode you instead fight a giant squid that will spawn tentecales all over the place. They are two very different fights and with different approaches and tactics. This gives the game even more variety than a list of dungeons and trials might look like at a glance.

[@senselesseldritch]

And the best part is, I was a player who ignored most blue quests mainly because I was more focused on the MSQ, but after finishing EW, and being completely caught up, I went back and did the quest unlocking it, and after like 800 hours of playtime, I was playing a 1.0 dungeon, and still enjoying it, and even struggling a bit. This game never runs out of content lol

[@Dhalin]

The hard mode dungeons are sadly something they stopped doing during ARR. You don't see these in Heavensward and beyond, for better or for worse. But, there's still plenty of content to go around, and there's still some optional dungeons in Heavensward (pretty sure I have at least one not done myself). The difficulty modes, though... I know at least one of the major bosses in Omega has a huge extra phase in Savage, and several other bosses do as well. And yes, there's always more mechanics, and some mechanics are changed a bit.

[@mikep1772]

annddd they shit the bed with releasing hero pass lol

[@Leafsw0rd]

I think another big thing about FFXIV is that it's schedule is incredibly consistent. I know, going in to an expansion or new patch, pretty much exactly how many dungeons and trials there will be.

[@CoL_Drake]

the mmo i rly was most impressed by ever was star wars the old republic. the fact that EVERY mission had a damn cutcene and was VOICED was so huge ... with video and voice and everything ... just simply amazing

[@RagnarokCo]

Not an amazing mmo by any standards but the one redeeming quality of Everquest 2 was how immersive it could be with all it's voice lines.

[@CopeAndSeeth]

Wasn't swtor the game with the most voice acting budget or something for a while? Absolutely insane amount of VO for its time, only recently did they start to do muted content (mostly on side content tho)

[@ryan1840]

​@Radical Alt-Centrist it was the first fully voiced mmo ever

[@Shadamehr100]

Its awesome for new players, there's an absolute ton of stuff to do, 10 years worth, but for veterans it suffers terribly from a severe lack of content.

[@Mollikar]

If it felt like Star Wars and not WOW in space I could get into it.

[@SaltSpirits]

Guild Wars 2 being one of the few MMOs that can be considered “on the rise” is a testament to how good they made the core game before worrying about how it will be monetized.

[@kingoffire9373]

Now do one about osrs! Ive been playing runescape consistently for 16 years, i played rs2, rs3 and osrs. Ive been playing osrs for the past 7 years so if you have any questions id be happy to help!

[@Galimeer5]

RS3 recently released the most anticipated update of the past few years, reworking the death costs (when you die, you pay a certain amount of gold to get your stuff back and for the longest time, the costs were just too high). Alongside that update, they changed the effect of the "Ring of Death." It had a pretty useful effect before, basically saving you a ton of hassle if you died, but after the rework, it got an awesome ability that let you shrug off deaths as long as you could survive a 3-minute DOT. Then the devs nerfed it. They nerfed it so badly, it went from one of the best items for players learning content to something so bad people are saying they preferred the original effect. All this to say, MMOs need to respect their players and not slap them across the face by nerfing useful items into oblivion. I've all but quit the game because of it.

[@SaltSpirits]

The issue with the RoD was that while yeah, it was fantastic as a learning tool for new players, it was a way of trivializing FAR too much content for endgame players. Formerly devastating mechanics became negligible. Most bosses take *less* than 3 minutes to kill from start to finish even with a mid level account, so you literally *couldn’t* fuck up most of the time. It was broken. I’m not saying the current effect is better for the game, but it was VERY obviously not balanced in its former form either.

[@cerbralone]

@@SaltSpirits Heres the problem: trickle down balancing in MMOs does not work. if you "balance" for the sake of 1%(or less) of your playerbase, you often times make dead content or items. For rs3? Why not make it less effective for high enrage for engame encounters e.g. Telos, Zamorak, Rasha, etc so you arent making it useless for literally everyone.

[@dreamer6737]

FFXIV is incredible. But still there seems to be so much resistance against it in the gaming world. It never really gets mainstream and recognized. Sure its bigger and more successful than ever but rarely mentioned or talked about it feels like….very strange.

[@izumolee6714]

To be honest that is ok cause it knows what it is. It doesn't need mainstream recognition or hoopla to attract players & attention it does that with word of mouth & showing not telling mentality. The free trial is incredible, where else can you get 2 games with 100s of hours of content for free. You know the saying, You either quit during ARR or be a walking advertisement for it if you stick around.

[@RoDaX55]

@Kimi Timoskainen not true... I don't like the dated combat system not the art Direction it simply doesn't work for me... The game may be super cool but for me it feels dated and boring it's like player wow on a different skin and I already had the experience for far to long in wow I want action combat stuff that can actually use today's Tech to it's potential

[@dreamer6737]

@@RoDaX55 If XIV is dated so are WoW and many other MMOs then I presume?

[@RoDaX55]

@@dreamer6737 depends wow is dated but it was the first one for me personally that made tab targeting enjoyable way before FF was an idea let alone a game, now most new tab targeting games just feel like a reskin... Now there are MMOs that feel more fresh in the combat for me, ESO, BDO, GW2, New World to name a few

[@ZeraKonno]

@@izumolee6714 I agree! We’d rather have a community that loves everyone that joins on their own accord rather it being all over the world where people join and make a big fuss with the usual insults the game gets from non fans. We don’t need mainstream, we just want the game to continue living so we can live in its world longer haha. And that they saying at the end is so true hahaha.

[@gwendeerlin]

FF14 has story skips and level skips. FF14 has multi-person mounts in the cash shop. FF14 has amazing skins and emotes in the cash-shop. OSRS basically has WoW tokens too. Bruh.

[@Allen2142]

I'm sad that you didn't talk about old school RuneScape at nearly as much length as Final Fantasy, considering it probably has a lot to teach us as well :( a good breakdown on Final Fantasy though for sure

[@BloodyDIMISIS55]

he might have only played 14 fully. so he cant comment on Runescape

[@dl2873]

@Spacellary the bonds probably aren't why it's retaining core players... My guess would be ironman modes which have zero pay to win features.

[@Outwardpd]

@@BloodyDIMISIS55 To be fair he clearly has never played WoW but he still spent ages talking about it

[@Outwardpd]

@@dl2873 Ironman is definitely not what it causing player retention, it is an amazing mode obviously and helped but I'm pretty sure the last time they mentioned the stats only around 10% of active players were ironmen.

[@dl2873]

@@Outwardpd if that's true I stand corrected. My bias of making too many HCs is getting in the way

[@JustPixelNoIDontWantAnyNumbers]

I agree with most of your points, however, throwing GW2 into the pay2win part doesnt sit quite right with me, as GW2 allows for a two-way exchange of currency, as you mentioned. So yes, you can buy Gold with Money. However, you can also buy the Premium Currency with Gold, thus allowing you to buy almost everything in the game with the exception of the main expansions with Gold. things like awesome mounts skins, Weapon skins, QoL improvements etc. And its not like you can buy just everything in the Game with Gold. Every Legendary aside from the ones from the base game has to be crafted, a lot of Unique Skins are unlocked through Achievements rather than bought, Mounts themselves are unlocked throughout the Path of Fire Story and its patch Content. I havent spent any money on GW2 aside from buying the expansions, Ive played the game for about 3 years now, and always actively, often just logging in once a day to grad the login rewards, maybe craft some daily crafts and thats about it for some time, and I own every living world episode and some QoL items from the Gemstore. Its not like in other Games where you grind you ass out to get a measly sum of Premium Currency, rather the exchange rates are quite reasonable in terms of time-investment, especially given the sheer amount of Gold you can farm quite easily in the Game. (Also due to its nature as an Action RPG having good Gear and actually clearing content are two very different things obviously) I should prob also add that Im not just a GW2 Fanboy, I would actually consider myself more of a FF14 fanboy than GW2, I just felt like I needed to point out what I said.

[@craigmcallister2310]

GW2 is more pay for convenience. And in that sense they are greedy AF.

[@shikishiki]

In guild wars 2 cosmetics are the endgame. And also you can buy any cosmetic with real money, either through conversion or outright through the store. That means that the entire endgame of guild wars 2 can be accessed with real world money. It's actually what got me to quit the game in the long run. Why would I spend dozens of hours grinding for some legendary item, when I could just work another 20 hours overtime? I am not having fun running the same metas over and over. There is no reason to do pvp or wvw or fractals or raids. If you can buy the all of the nice things with some cash in the end. And so I worked more and played less until I bought legendary after legendary and in the end I wondered, why do I even play this game anymore?

[@craigmcallister2310]

@@shikishiki Exactly!

[@jsedge2473]

GW2, like GW1, the entire end game is cosmetic. This worked fantastic for GW1 as you essentially couldn't buy anything meaningful in the cash shop back in those days. People would happily grind 2000 hours for some pixels they could flex in town that nobody else had and it gave some things real meaning. GW2 on the other hand, you can buy something 10x shinier in the cash shop for $20 or grind for 200 days straight for something less shiny. The choice is obvious. They killed their own end game. It's the reason I stopped playing honestly. There's 0 fun in a game if I can access the whole end game for a few $$ or If I choose not to everyone else is and I'm grinding 5 years for something someone else buys with 5 hours of work. Makes everything essentially meaningless and a waste of in game time.

[@KairuFreestar91]

it's honestly funny that you brought up OSRS. while I had no idea that the population in OSRS was actually going up, I did rejoin just last week. I've also been playing XIV since A Realm Reborn beta so the fact that the two mmos that are my favorites are doing so well in an environment where mmos are declining gives me a good feeling they will be around for a while longer still

[@PissyJorts]

There's a specific itch that OSRS scratches for me that brings me back every time. No other MMO is quite like it

[@99range92def]

The population of osrs isnt at an all time peak, it peaked with mobile at 150k concurrent online, but lately its trending upwards.

[@99range92def]

@Kimi Timoskainen Actually no, the mods have stated that osrs is the peak of popularity for the game, it had over 1m subs which rbeaks any pre eoc record.

[@PissyJorts]

@Kimi Timoskainen Very sorry for your loss. I hope you can learn to enjoy the game again I’m sure your friend would want you to

[@MrBa143]

@@99range92def It actually peaked at 172k players in the trailblazer league

[@brianstrigel2241]

As a professional game developer in the MMO space I really agree 100% with your points. The dialogue slog and the boring questing experience drags, but I love the spectacles for the instanced group content, and emphasis on earning your cosmetics really inspires me to continue with FF14. Hopefully my game will be on your youtube about the good games.

[@TinariKao]

I just wish I could get TO that point in FFXIV. Over a few years I've mostly off and a little on with FFXIV but the early game is such a tremendous slog every time that I can't progress to a point to find any of the "interesting bits" people tell me about. If the game isn't interesting in the first few hours, it's doing something extremely wrong... or it's not my kinda game in any way.

[@TinariKao]

I just cannot find anything about playing and leveling in FFXIV enjoyable in the slightest. It's so incredibly slow to play. Supposedly it'll get faster at higher levels, I guess but I can't bring myself to even get there. If the game isn't fun in the first couple hours, why continue? I am not a fan of a game trying to "tell me" a story. It feels way too try-hard. Just let the lore expand the universe. Probably just a difference in Eastern and Western RPG philosophy there. I dunno. I can find no redeeming quality of "playing" FFXIV. Only fun I have is messing around with others in towns.@@civer678

[@weatherreport3249]

Guild Wars 2 has been growing so well. It's really cool to see.

[@papa_slug]

ive played almost every MMO at least for a small amount of time but the only one that truly sticks out as different in a certain regard is OSRS. the devs actually talk to the community, regularly. every day. they listen to the players and act on it. not to mention osrs is just a game that has quite literally endless content. it just really hits those hard to reach spots in a game and i wish everyone got to feel that way about a game

[@aheitman2998]

I think you'd be surprised on the dev response of FFXIV, I dont think its an every day thing but the do care and respond to issues no matter how ridiculous. A shining example of this is FFXIVs "butt nerf" and their response. This isnt to take away from OSRS, but I think it shows a similarity between it and FFXIV as to how they are both succeeding.

[@v4Kyle]

I’ll never forget being a brain dead little kid and collecting feathers for hours lol

[@tyriongambly3134]

@@v4Kyle That was lowkey money back then for a kid.

[@PandiTheBear]

What’s your take on Vanguard saga of heroes? I remember it being pretty fun but unfinished.

[@poisonated7467]

You should definitely try Project 1999 EverQuest, it sticks out above all the rest, including OSRS.

[@SuperEliteGuns]

the main reason for ff14 and OSRC keeping players is the Socials .... you jump online to meet new people and the interactions you get with other players is practically always positive

[@High_Priest_Jonko]

What a bunch of bullshit. Nobody socializes in these games anymore because you can just use Discord. The internet isn't new anymore. I've played FF14 and OSRS for a long time and I never get a chance to socialize because nobody talks. Wtf are you talking about? Seriously, wtf?

[@BrolympicBWL]

@@High_Priest_Jonko Might have something to do with you being an obviously annoying person? Just based on your comment. I’ve played OSRS for 20 years and there’s always people to chat to in Friends Chats and Clans

[@SuperEliteGuns]

@@BrolympicBWL thanks for saying what I was about to say to him

[@MrOlinice1]

@@High_Priest_Jonko osrs is one of the most social games always 50+ online on my friends list clan chat booming with interaction, multi player content and invitations to do things from randoms all the time

[@andyspincat2968]

You can also look at Warframe to see a decent MMO strategy. It's not an MMORPG, but it's been pretty successful.

[@quentinb734]

Ffxiv free trial is so good and it hooked me to get all expansions. So much content. Just completed shadowbringers and now I’m starting endwalker. Many games should learn from ffxiv.

[@Patrickdaawsome]

?? How did you get through the boring leveling?

[@joshuayung5158]

@@Patrickdaawsome leveling in ffxiv is boring but it's also easy. If you're just leveling 1 or 2 jobs you don't even need to grind, the main story quests in the expansions on provide enough exp for you to keep pace without grinding. I finished Endwalker 5 days after release. Simply doing 2-3 daily roulettes (30-45min) allowed me to keep pace with two jobs.

[@SubduedRadical]

@@Patrickdaawsome I've never played a game where leveling wasn't kind of boring/grindy. FFXIV at least makes it easy and relatively fast to get through. Unless we're talking REALLY old school like FF11 or Everquest or early WoW where leveling was more about experiencing the world, FFXIV's leveling isn't any more boring than other modern MMOs.

[@Maidendg]

@@Patrickdaawsome I thought ARR was boring most of the time, I wasn't used to so much dialogue. And Post ARR seems never ending. If you get to HW it changes, much better storylines and its all better quality from there.

[@quentinb734]

@@Patrickdaawsome I didn’t get bored cause I was kinda blitzing through the main story quest as warrior then changed to dark knight and just kept just doing main story. It gives enough exp. It’s optional to level up more than one job

[@methanbreather]

What I really like about GW2: as soon as you reach legendary the gear treatmill sttops once and for all. Is that the same for ff14? because a perpetual grind (like in wow) would really keep me away.

[@bleachmark9816]

Riot is making a League of Legends MMO and from recent videos it sounds like one of the guys behind the creation of it sees where things go wrong in a lot of MMOs and i hope they can implement things well, and actually get another top tier mmo put out there.

[@fitmotheyap]

Rumor has it that it's f2p as well, which is interesting

[@val7885]

Considering how Riot is treating pretty much all the games made by them, I don't have high hopes. It's all either esports, or vehicle for monetisation - regardless of what devs, writers and artists working on the game itself want, as long as there are money people demanding constant economic growth, it's absolutely going to end up in the same vicious cycle as every other MMO.

Tried to get into GW2 after tiring with WOW but the graphic style is so 90s.. Essentially stumbled on my old Elder Scrolls Online install again which I had played way back a bit. Tried it with a new character and man, that game is doing pretty much everything right, always liked the Elder Scrolls/Oblivion/Skyrim world it looks gorgeous now, they must have done a few graphical overhauls since last I played. Fighting is good not great, they could improve it for sure. But it doesn't break the game at all.

[@Corosar]

I remember hearing a quote before. I am not sure where i heard it from but. When Yoshi-P took up the mantle of FF14. He went in with the mindset of making it into a Final fantasy game first. An MMO second. It really does feel that way. Its very much a final fantasy game. Its heavy in lore and story. the vast majority of cosmetics are obtainable in game. There is a cash shop (Mogstation) but its typically for cosmetic things that don't fit into the themes of the game, Cross over based cosmetics to other final fantasy games, fancier player wedding ceremonies that don't grant anything more than just most customization for the event, certain emotes, or as a way of supporting the devs. They don't shove it into the faces of players. I have seen people around the game that never even knew of the existence of the mogstation or what is on there. I think i have only ever bought a few random things from it simply because i wanted to show my support for the company and not because i wanted something specifically from there. I even recently discovered that the dyes buyable in the mogstation are not even tradable in-game.The dyes you see on the market board are ones found in game by people that gathered them. They function identically but they have the additional tag of "General purpose" Typically you can get 95%-98% of cosmetic stuff simply by going through the game and unlocking it. and honestly. its one of the best things about FF14. That.. and you only really need to maintain one character. As that one character is now able to visit every server for free and is able to be any job or class in the game. I only have to go through the story once. because i only need to have one character.

[@Shuma_tsu]

I have an 8-slot mount from the shop and that's probably the only thing better than you can get by playing

[@gearzdesign]

Mogstation has character boosts as well. And they looked at wow to get an idea on how to rebuild ffxiv. They used warcraft as a template for years after realm reborn was released. The game is fun, but it's essentially a single player game now.

[@darkeather2]

I think your idea of making most content spectacles and right-to-the-point would actually help highlight the occasional 2 hour raid. Now instead of running dungeons over and over all expansion, you save it for the end as one big slog of a finale, fighting tooth and nail through one big raid that's had love put into its construction over the course of the whole expansion. Having nothing but dungeons is boring, but having one every now and then thats a big deal would make them exciting again

[@StinkyCatFarts]

I grew up with WoW, no mmo hits the same. So many childhood memories.

[@Nillowo]

Same here, I’m too attached now hah

[@raymondrobbins9495]

@@Nillowo see we also grew up playing wow but what drove me away was all the constant changing of game mechanics. Like how many times did they refund your skill tree so you had to respec. ffxiv is just a much better all around game for people who do not pvp. WoW is basically a pvp game with a sprinkle of PVE content.

[@jessm-ol2ko]

i played ff11 before WoW. quit ff11 right after trying wow. also tried both FF14's meaning the ff14 flop and reborn. WoW's just a better game. FF14's combat and skill animations are horrid complete turn off. cant get passed that.

[@raymondrobbins9495]

@@jessm-ol2ko We will have to agree to disagree, i respect you like wow. I personally like 14 it has such a rich story line, and a new player such as my self has not problem leveling from 0, they still run all the dugeons. All the primal and titan fights, you would be hard pressed to not start the game at lvl 60 in wow since no one does any of the low lvl content. So you enjoy WoW and I'll enjoy 14, 14 has 14 million active players and wow has like 8 now its really hemorrhaging subs.

[@jessm-ol2ko]

@@raymondrobbins9495 14 barely has 20k players on steam. you actualyl think millions of people have the regular launcher and dont touch steam?

[@eonarose]

You can buy Gil in 14 by buying job boosts. They also have a cash shop with tons of cosmetics. The difference is, the devs working on 14 respect the players, which they showed when they completely remade the game after its release tanked, and the players trust them to make the game better with every patch.

[@Bardregan]

it's worth noting too that the amount of gil you obtain by buying a job skip isn't substantial. And unlike other MMORPGs with the paid currency convenience option, if you truly wanted to buy gil with this method you'd be capped off by the number of jobs there are in the game at the time as opposed to however much you wanted.

[@eonarose]

@@Bardregan you can still buy the boosts and get the gold even if all your jobs are max level. You just can’t use the boosts, but like you said, 500k Gil is chump change in ffxiv. I know a few people that are sitting on 1 billion Gil 24/7 and could give everyone in my fc 500k Gil and still have millions left over.

[@johnzkeePW]

Ff14 is a jrpg with an MMO tacked in it. You could do lots of non raid contents by going solo through the use of ai teammates. That being said, it's story was amazing, I was going through the ARR slogfest hen suddenly near the end, bang crystal tower and sudden up in the quality of writing. By the time I first entered ishgard, I'm already convinced to buy the full game and subscribe, I just need to clear heavenward first

[@sylicaa8618]

going through FFXIV without any prior MMO experience is probably one of the most magical things a player can experience

[@pineapplesonpizza7726]

I was actually one of those people who enjoyed ARR (although that one was a one time thing, I don't want to go through it again omg) and that freaking patch ending just floored me. I will forever remember that very walk to Ishgard still reeling from the plot twist behind me.

[@medivh1035]

A catgirl with maid dress convinced me to buy the game on my second day of free trial, lol

[@CrimsonKage]

@@medivh1035 Heck, coulda been me.

[@cesukeelmilagroso]

Exactly i played it and is one more FF.

[@TakeMyLunch]

"You have to spend time alone doing the story before you can play with your friends." My friend just followed me around and dungeons de-level you so I got to see him flail trying to remember what the class was like at that level. Good times.

[@maximilianboese4788]

As a long time ESO player I have to agree with you about soloplayers and group content. I did both solo arenas and most of the dungeons on vet. I barely touched the group arenas or raids because there is no easy way to enter them. I don't want to activly look for other players to group up. If I could just que in and could reduce the conversation with group members to a minimum I would try this stuff out for sure.

[@mschosting]

My 2 cents is most of those MMo are great, just they get old and people do grow up we look for different ones and just lose interest

[@danielandrews3878]

You are partially correct but you ignore a few things, like the gaming industry overall and also the changes on the consumers profiles. MMO market is dying first of all because today gamers have less time to play per game. Compared with the time when WoW defined the genre, today we have probably 1000 times more games on the market. The retention of users for long term development games, with medium to long time rewards also got huge hits, mainly because players in general are dopamine addicts and MMO genre is extremely slow to deliver that dopamine. MOBA games and any PvP game in general (sports, fighting games, anything that get to the end result in 30 min-2 hours) is far more exciting today, and more than anything, much easier to obtain. As for economics, again, the shift of players to more dopamine relevant injectors is obvious. Blizzard's best product in turnover is not WoW anymore for a very long time, is Overwatch. And as any business, the most logical thing to do is to focus mainly on your best selling product. You might disagree with such statement from the perspective of a consumer for one or another game, but this is the economical truth.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

Two comments. First, you did not talk about Old School RuneScape, and what they are doing right. Second, how do you think Cosmetics sales will effect the success of Ashes of Creation? Are they doing Cosmetics differently enough to avoid the pitfalls?

[@LuckyGhost]

I state this video will be about FF14, and the next will be about OSRS cus this one was already hitting the ~20 min mark. so, its planned for next time! :)

[@antondovydaitis2261]

@@LuckyGhost I missed that, sorry. Thank you.

[@Maidendg]

I played WoW since 2009 and finally left after Shadowlands, got bored after I maxed out a few characters. I am a solo player and it was a difficult decision to end my sub even after not signing in for several months. After a couple of months of not playing anything, I tried FF14 with the free trial because I was bored and missed playing WoW (as it use to be). It took some time getting use to all the "talking" from NPCs and that map was so difficult for me to figure out and I didn't know I was suppose to follow the Main Scenario Quest and do job quests to advance in the game, I was grabbing all the quests I saw. When my first dungeon came about I didn't do it, I had so much anxiety from toxic WoW players in dungeons, I avoided FF dungeons as long as I could. I finally decided to "get it over with" and at the end of every dungeon everyone was telling me (I was a known newbie because of a "sprout" emoji next to my name) to enjoy the story and how we all did a great job in the dungeon. There was no bashing or name calling, if you died it wasn't mentioned at all, if EVERYONE dies its no big deal, it was a completely different experience. The community is so supportive I think that should've been part of your video, I believe it makes the game better for everyone. Veteran players are shocked that WoW players stayed in the toxic environment for so long. I'm not a great player and die often in some of the tough fights, there is so much going on in a fight its hard to me to be aware of everything all the time (I have inattentive ADHD) so I get discouraged at times but end up getting help from online FB FF14 groups or just trying again for the 7th time in a random group. I have to remind myself that no one cares if you die in FF14. It actually took me an entire year for my dungeon anxiety to completely disappear, that's how bad it was for me. The story gets better AFTER A Realm Reborn imho, much better. Its a game that gets better as it progresses.

[@Maidendg]

@Kimi Timoskainen Sprouts appreciate it, its a totally different experience from what we were use to. I love the FF community! It really should've been mentioned in the video because its a huge factor in the popularity of the game.

[@Mayhamsdead]

1:38-1:40 Final Fantasy XIV ("Old-school") Runescape S'all good.

[@GotNoKarma]

You should of went into detail about Oldschool Runescape. That's the other MMO that is trending upwards. Let's see a detailed video on that.

[@IamMrSimQn]

Osrs is always slept on whenever the current state of mmo is talked about

[@ExiledDiclonius]

Its weird how you said only in GW2 case that expansion took like 3 years to come out. Its not so different to FF that had 2,5 years in between expansions. I don't play GW2 since 2 years already so correct me if I'm wrong if they changed anything. But GW2 was releasing living story patches that didn't only add story in between expansions, but also always included new zones to explore. So far from games that I played GW2 had the best in between expansions patches.

[@Freefunware]

you're completely right, and don't forget all the festivals which often also add new gear and sometimes new minigames (temporarily) to the game

[@terminalvelocity4858]

You really hit a homerun with this video Lucky. Thank you for keeping it real and to the point. MMO devs, please take notes. Your success (and ours) depend on it...

[@Wintermist-SWE]

I think WoW's biggest item in regards to this is the Lightforged Warframe. To even be able to buy it you first have to grind a lot of reputation to be ALLOWED to buy it, but the price for it was, last I checked - 726,000 gold. That's atleast 2 WoW tokens, possibly even 3. If you put the work in to grind for it, not having enough gold to actually buy it will most likely not stop you from buying WoW tokens just to get the item you worked so hard to be allowed to buy.

[@godsmackfreak13]

not to mention the long boi (Auction house Brutosaur), which when it came out was 5 million gold. that was around 500-600 bucks in REAL MONEY, and that mount is no longer available outside of the black market. Now its closer to gold cap, and its one of the most useful mounts in the game. That one still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[@fyrelord7826]

Considering I was able to pay for 6 months of game tokens with GOLD ONLY, no IRL Cash, just from leatherworking, and was STILL able to play and have fun.....I'd say you're doing something wrong....

[@PolymurExcel]

J1mmy once said that "If you didn't quite playing OSRS/RS2 by like high school, you are never going to quit. You only take long breaks." I stopped playing RuneScape for like well over five years and then...well here I am trying to get my slayer up because I really want a rune pouch and have no idea how to do the other method to get it.

[@Kevin..1]

You can buy one at the G.E chief :)

[@goofofff]

Monthly subscriptions actually drives me away. I'd rather spend in the store when I can. I have other monthly subscriptions (plus bills) and don't feel like adding more. This is the one consideration that's stopping me from trying ff and other monthly sub mmos. GW2 works for me.

[@funkyn6323]

That's the exact same reason why I kept myself away from FFIX.

[@MSDGAMEZ]

I started playing mmos 2 years ago. I think i enjoy them so much because i have never looked up meta content or anything. I have just explored the worlds at my leisure.