Start Shooting Better Episode 7: FBI Qualification

In this episode of Start Shooting Better, John and Chris walk through the FBI Qualification test that all FBI agents are required to pass in order to carry a firearm on duty. While it's not necessarily an ideal tool for skill development, there are a lot of benefits for the average armed citizen to be able to demonstrate that they can pass a federally recognized shooting standard.
Check out the rest of the Start Shooting Better series: • Start Shooting Better
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[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

I know these videos are old but they were my favorite lucky gunner videos. I wish they would keep making these. They gave me great ideas of tests to run at the range and measurable scores to shoot for.

[@failure2flinch876]

the Secret Sauce is always... Practice Practice Practice

[@josemariaalipio1047]

Please do continue this series. I always learn something new from this channel. Huge kudos to you guys.

[@doc8579]

NJ REQUIRES this along with a class ($125) to be considered for a carry permit. The problem is that most ranges you can rent by the hour will not allow you to draw from a holster. Only some outdoor ranges that cost $600 or more a year. Once again making it cost prohibitive for most when we have the highest property taxes and cost of living.

[@arthurcarstens]

Shot this for the first time with my SW m&p 2.0 45acp, finished with 58/60, 97% you are right, it was pretty easy, I was surprised with the drill. It is interesting, keep up with the drills, really enjoy the videos.

[@LordCohliani]

The .45 ACP Shield is highly underrated in my opinion. It's a good gun.

[@design2survive]

What about dance floor backflip shot...sorry had to:). Big fan of the channel!

[@precisionmarksman5084]

The 4X6 rectangular zone you're describing, is exactly like the old police qualification B27 PPC target is. Much more difficult and challenging than these newer standards are.

[@douglassalley9117]

I have passed this drill only once in two years! The one that is the hardest for me is the six shots in six sec., changing hands in that six sec. My instructor won't give be a certificate until I pass the test twice. He says I'm scared of the timer. When the first beep. goes off, I get worried. He has seen my targets and knows I can do it. To ad insult to injury, I seen Aron on Sage Dynamics to it with a gen 3 glock 17 with no sights and he did with plenty og time to spare!! Enjoying your series.....thank you for doing them sirs.

[@AbhishekSingh-pp1ks]

These videos keep getting even better! Keep up the good work!

[@kirk2767]

No backflip requirement? WTH?

[@LuckyGunner]

That's the Advanced Dance Party variant.

[@hai.d.nguyen]

😂

[@glockfanboy4635]

Could you do a video on how you make your beard so perfect? That thing is the best mixture of rugged and groomed.

[@geometro9512]

Tanner Daniels With a hell of a lot of hipster mixed in.

[@geebskerbal2771]

CGI beard

[@bernard.c4648]

That's what Im about to ask

[@reptilesgamers00]

I wish they'd make a video on effective dry fire.

[@ryanthompson3969]

I shot this qual for the first time last week, I was really surprised how easy it was, I don't consider myself an excellent shooter, but I am definitely better than the average Joe. I have never had any formal training other than a basic cpl course and I was able to score a 57 using a standard piece of printer paper as a target.

[@versoarmamentcompany]

Great video

[@Brian-RidgeRunner]

Great video as usual! Thanks for posting these drills, they help me to mix it up.

[@Indykid88]

I printed off a bunch of targets from the blog and hit the range with them a couple weeks ago with my brother (who’s a new shooter) and a buddy who’s active Army. SUPER fun to have a little friendly competition and to get better with our blasters too!! I ran my Px4 and my buddy who’s in the Army wouldn’t stop hating on Beretta’s. He HATES his M9. Hasn’t got his M17 yet. I still outshot him and his G23 though 👍.

[@rolysantos]

Chris: Where do you think the FBI qual falls short? John: I'd like to see people shoot a target the size of a smurf, or at least a gnome, with a two inch grouping, from 25 yards away! LOL! Thanks for the video!

[@Rif_Leman]

As an "unshielded" civilian, your standard should be 60/60 in the target. Every round that misses will hit something for which you will be held accountable.

[@D-raw-c]

That’s just asking to be an issue in court.

[@Douglas-Ops]

Thanks for the great information, this is a great series, lots of help and fun!

[@357Shakey]

I hear a lot of "experts" discuss various points about training and citizens with CCW. I like what John has to say. I might have to see what his groups has to offer.

[@pete7389]

Very informative. Great idea for a video.

[@jamiesloan5902]

I made myself a steel IDPA -0, -1 area silhouette(12"x18" body, with a 6"x6" head). I use for a lot of my drills, including this one, and the Mozambique.

[@patbika]

Thanks for your very proffessional and informative videos.Done with seriousness and simplicity!

[@tstealth9412]

This video was basic and helpful to me, I'm a novice shooter. It gives me some idea.

[@Renaldo135]

Similar to our Police quals for many years but they ALL are lacking for reality. We have to qualify that way but also do enhanced shooting drills both force on force and shooting while moving when honestly no matter which you choose it should ALL be shooting while you move. The funniest thing we did last year was shooting from a vehicle.

[@j96rongway43]

I did the state police qualifications drill in my last training class and it was easier than I thought.

[@Blake4Truth]

Texas qual. test for carry is close to this, 50 rounds out to 15 yards, but no single hand, week hand, or reload required.

[@kfeltenberger]

The FBI seems to have simplified their Pistol Qualification Course considerably since the early 2000s. It used to be 50 rounds, with much more useful requirements (moving 10 yards from the 25 to 15 yard line to fire, while on the clock), prone to kneeling strong/weak side barricade to standing. This course of fire (that you presented) just doesn't seem challenging at all. If I took a class and an instructor *didn't* keep records that could be submitted as evidence, I'd walk out. Part of the reason, a small but important one, that I take an instructor led class is because I want a qualified third party witness to have proof of my abilities and that I've passed the course. It's all about layers of protection; if you do the right thing, know the law, the criminal investigation part of the shooting should clear you, but the next concern is the civil suit by the perp and/or its family and in a civil suit the bar moves from "beyond a shadow of a doubt" to a "preponderance of evidence."

[@brandanb9735]

If it ain't raining we ain't training!

[@3Pillers]

Thanks for posting

[@scottparker3323]

thank yous guys!

[@Thunderbolt22A10]

Just did this drill and scored a 93 on it, friend scored a 92. While I won't say this was "easy" it was most certainly not hard at all.

[@96stealth]

So cut the time standards in half and challenge yourself more.

[@nicktaylor5952]

It didn't seem too crazy.

[@weedXD38]

Thank you for sharing!!! Definitely will try our at the Range.

[@oldcop18]

This is pretty much the same course I fired for my LEOSA certification, absent drawing from concealment. I’m in my 70s and scored a 90%.

[@chickenmon]

Excellent and insightful, as usual. Keep it up!

[@Bob-eo3gf]

"100 percent, good job Utah." Thank you for another awesome video.

[@jamiesloan5902]

I make myself draw with strong hand only, too. I think they were trying to simulate your support hand being compromised. The par time is still very forgiving, but it makes for good scenario training(Miami Dade shooting, where one of the agents was down to using one hand).

[@kspen1336]

Another great episode in a great series. You should keep doing these as long as you can come up with pertinent skills/drills. Maybe a monthly drop?

[@InGratitudeIam]

Excellent! Thanks for posting!

[@jasonjohnson6938]

I have been shooting this with double action only J frames and double action only 22s almost exclusively and despite very often losing 4 for the fumbled revolver reload and maybe 1 on the string hand weak hand I still havent failed. I would say that the test definitely hammered home to me the importance of a good holster and proper placement though. It's a good standard 4 beginners and low intermediate handgun Shooters like me, but I wouldn't necessarily say that passing it is impressive. It is a helpful health check though

[@michaelkclark6981]

I would like more details on taking the classes you guys mentioned Thanks

[@LuckyGunner]

You can find training opportunities with John and Melody at citizensdefenseresearch.com. Tom Givens class schedule is at rangemaster.com.

[@jimmyroy3340]

That red head is bad ass !!!

[@werunguns]

Awesome series!

[@danpisula3531]

Excellent Video, thanks.

[@watsisname3299]

Good video, as an instructor I had not thought of expanding qualification to fbi standards. Maybe that is a good personal add on to state (IL) qualificaiton for personal records.

[@AB3385ab]

I want to become an FBI agent. Thanks for giving me an idea of what the qualifications are like if I can get into Quantico.

[@admiralsnackbar2811]

The only stages that effect 5 shot revolvers are stage 2 (one automatic miss due to the lack of a 6th round) and stage 5 due to the longer average reload time for revolvers. Still passable with a 5 shot revolver if your accuracy is high enough to offset the penalty of one automatic miss on stage 2 and any penalty shots fired over the time limit due to the reload on stage 5.

[@jamestoney6108]

This win in battle of the beards

[@si_vis_pacempara_bellum4906]

I tried a similar one when I was at the range last month. Without the kneeling part, and no time cap. The target was just the smaller hit zone size, I can get all my shot on target, but I finch hard when I hit that first DA when draw from concealment 😂 about 2 inches low than my SA shots at 7 yard

[@BaritoneMonkey]

Passing is 80% Instructor shooting score is 90%

[@J96342]

Could you do a video on the 2019 FBI quality or the usmc cpp qual

[@scdave100]

Another quality video.

[@Anibal677]

Looks like a Massad Ayoob´s course I read once. But it was a little different. In the ayoob course firts part was at 4 yards with the handgun in the waek hand and shoot 6 rounds with this weak hand only, at the same 4 yards with the handgun in the holster draw and shoot six with one hand (the strong hand). At seven Yards handgun in the holster draw shoot 6 rounds with two hands, reload and shoot another six rounds. At 10 Yards handgun in holster draw and fire six in low squat position, go kneeling position reload and fires 6, go down kneeling position and fire anothes 6 rounds. At 15 yards handgun in the holster draw and fire 6 in weaver position, reload an fire another 6 in modified weaver position, then reload an fire another 6 in isoceles position. I don´t remember the time limits (I going to look for the magazine I read it). The seven yards the firing was at two hand griping but it doesn´t say what position, so I think it is any one position everyone like most. (Forgive my bad English)

[@natepatterson4934]

Wonder how this FBI qualification course compares to the NYPD's qualification course? And, how do they compare to accuracy of shots in the real world?

[@suburiboy]

A lot of states require their police to take a very similar test. I tried it with my brother recently and shot a 90%. It does scare me a bit that there are police officers who are getting 70-80% on these types of tests. (most states require 80%, some are as low as 70%).

[@ravissary79]

my only concern with using the px4 compact for this is the short sight radius for such a large compact gun.

[@Marcos-peregrino]

Cops, FBI included, don;t have all day to play range rat and throw bullets at targets. That qual course ain't bad and a reasonable judge of proficiency for LEO's who spend most of their time working, not shooting.

[@chriskeelor799]

Appreciate the video, what holstering is being used? Each of you lift your shirt up before you draw. You are not just belting the pistol? I have seen the pull up holster, but there is no overlap.

[@LuckyGunner]

The holster is an AIWB model from JM Custom Kydex.

[@flyoverkid55]

Surprisingly simple standards for a Federal agency.

[@northshores7319]

I think the US Border Patrol and the US Marshalls shoot way more often than the FBI which is primarily an investigative agency, therefore, I think more attention should be placed on those agencies shooting results. Personally I think all Law Enforcement agencies should be armed with a Mossberg Shockwave to be able to really stop the threat with one or two shots. Thanks for the informative video. Keep them coming.

[@mphoremonare5537]

Perfect

[@owlobsidian6965]

To all the people saying the bar is to low for law enforcement, remember that le's job is not to be a gunfighter or expert marksman. 95% of le's day to day activity doesn't involve shooting people, and when the occasion does arise it's usually at fairly close ranges and a straight forward scenario. Guys, it's not like in the action movies out there.

[@SHMEGMA9]

You think that qual is easy? Look up the Ohio peace officer qual. It's just sad. I passed mine without having to try at all

[@rubencarmona1531]

Yay new video 🤗

[@paulpatrick9901]

Are you allowd to use a "crimson trace" target assignment system with this traing program?

[@geometro9512]

How does Mr. Johnson manage to appendix carry as a bigger guy? I tried it with a glock 43 and I’m quite a bit smaller than him (though i still have a bit of a belly) and it constantly poked my stomach when I did anything but stand up straight? Another question: what are your thoughts on switching carry position for Off duty carry vs on duty carry? I could see things like appendix or sob posing a problem in a high stress situation if you carry a duty weapon on your hip and a off duty in a totally different position?

[@Bob5mith]

His belly fat is outside his abdominal wall and below the belt.

[@kidnamedcaine3179]

I'm 5'10, weigh 165 and wear medium sized t shirts that fit a little tight so I can't conceal a 3 o'clock position without printing really obviously due to my shirt size so i appendix carry and My gun stabs into my stomach but nobody can see it there lol, It sucked at first but I got used to it and got used to telling myself "I'll sacrifice personal comfort for personal security everyday of the week"

[@Xelaz_Aughra]

The difference is the gun of choice. His 34 has a longer slide so it has something to rest against his body, whereas your 43 is very tiny and short. Shorter guns on bigger people are best carried on the hip. Longer guns on bigger people are best carried on the appendix. Smaller people can do any combination.

[@mpwmu9041]

Any chance of rifle shooting? Great video.

[@TheBigpappa160]

Whats the time and score if someone is using a revolver?

[@LuckyGunner]

There's not an official revolver version of the current FBI qual. I think the times are generous enough that using a revolver shouldn't be much of a hindrance, except potentially on the reload stage. Last time I ran it with a revolver, I scored 59/60, and that was under the pressure of being tested for an instructor qualification and at a time when I didn't have nearly the experience with revolvers I do now, so I'd say it's more than doable.

[@conorobrien2411]

Time to move past the 1960’s 😂 I kid, proud owner and carrier of 2 .38/.357 revolvers.

[@94Thatguy]

I demand the secret sauce of marksmanship GARY!!

[@southernexposure123]

Thanks for the videos about learning to shoot better. Is there any "requirement" or "limit" regulating which handgun can be used for the FBI qualification test? Is it required to shoot every stage with the same handgun? Thanks again.

[@jasonjohnson6938]

If you can't complete the Qual with 1 weapon, you're not qualified with that weapon. It's intended to be run woth the agent's duty gun

[@Ryarios]

I’ve fired this test. We didn’t have the right targets so we only had a circular target about the size of the ringed portion of the targets you used nor did we have real cover either. Most of us (me including) managed to qualify instructor. I think only one person failed - and that was only on the first time through. I wasn’t impressed with the test. I will say it’s better that most police are required to pass. One thing it fails to deal with is moving targets. It also doesn’t consider if you’re on the move. On a side note I’ve watched a considerable numbers of LE cadets perform dismally on much easier tests - at the end of their training. In some cases the only safe place on the range was directly in front of the target. It was funny listening to them all blame their crappy DA issued guns - which, to be fair, had atrocious triggers on them. I will admit to using a 1911 in .45 for the tests which I think is easier to shoot accurately, but a little slower on follow-up shots - especially one handed. On a side note, if you asked me to do it today, I’m sure I would fail it. I’m getting old and don’t practice nearly as much as I used to.

[@julianmercier]

Another video from Men Without Razors.

[@klits732]

Please do a review HK p30

[@fwi1298]

you say generous, i say realistic

[@scottparker3323]

melody has the best looking draw, by far....

[@robins265]

Maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t look like you’re anywhere close to 25 yards away in that video. It looks a lot closer to 25 feet. Maybe it’s just because of the camera angle?

[@finnblu3002]

I wonder how Robert Hanssen would do?

[@99Knytes]

Only thing that got me scratching my head is how would being proficient in this drill (or any, really) pass as a viable defense in court? Me thinks if you're called into court for anything firearm related, a drill score is the least of your concerns.

[@DannyMac100]

The thinking is that your ability to pass this drill shows a proficiency in firearm skill and safety, demonstrating to the jury that you are a responsible, well-trained gun owner. The prosecution may want to make you look like a crazy, undisciplined gun-toting fanatic.

[@99Knytes]

Daniel Madrid Well, that's partly my point; without some sort of video documentation or expert witness, claiming a drill proficiency is just here-say. But, even in that narrative, the prosecution can still spin it into you being a well-trained crazed, gun-toting fanatic. For the most part, the burden of proof is on you to prove that you did everything humanly possible to descalate, and/or avoid the situation before introducing a firearm. No proficiency in any drill will prove that; at that point it's about witnesses and wounds. Now don't get me wrong... Drills are good to do to improve your skill set, and just might save a life "on the street" if that dreaded moment ever happens; just don't count on them in a court of law.

[@JJLTACTICALSOLUTIONS]

So what’s next. Will you show us how to fire better than a alien from Mars.

[@tylerlowder2338]

I wish i had time to shot this much.

[@scottparker3323]

I wanna draw like Melody...

[@mattr7118]

That's a cool hairdo that chick has. I want it lol

[@davidlewis4384]

How do you score going slightly over par time? I did 8.33 seconds instead of 8 on stage 5. Do you just count that last shot as dropped?

[@LordZedz]

Correct, shots over the time limit are dropped which would be your last shot on that drill.

[@carloparisi9945]

Hi, I'm wondering: is the 3 yards stage supposed to be shot from the hip?

[@LuckyGunner]

No, the FBI (and 99% of the firearms training world) abandoned hip shooting decades ago. Shooting with the gun at eye level is not any slower and tends to be far more accurate.

[@carloparisi9945]

@@LuckyGunner I see, but at 3 yards from your feet, the gun is barely more than 2 yards away from your opponent's torso and he has almost a yard of reach as well. You're basically one step from grappling...

[@borkwoof696]

How do you like the CZ-75 compared to the Beretta 92?

[@moicus29]

Hagen I can't speak for the LG crew and I don't have time on the SA only CZ75, just the BD (decocker DA/SA) model. The CZ-75BD we have came broken out of box from factory. The slide stop extended too far into the reciever and actually impinged on the rounds as the gun tried to feed them into the chamber. CZ fixed it promptly afterward, but I don't have a good opinion of the standard, cast, B models. The finish seems out of date to me. The trigger doesn't seem as nice as Berettas or SIG's I've fired out of box. And they generally seem fragile prior to the omega trigger group redesign. The P-07's look good to me. And I have a P10C on my shopping list. If you're choosing tween a 92 and a 75 though, I'd reccomend the Beretta personally. And a smaller gun than either if you plan to carry it often.

[@caseyfryback8271]

What are the requirements for the female FBI agents?

[@BallisticRadio]

Casey F Ryback the same.

[@eddiemelikian2440]

That second looking out of the frame camera angle isn't working.

[@c-secofficer123]

Do you guys know where I can find US Secret Service course of fire?

[@derweibhai]

Wow! No comments on the flaming haired, punk rock Danger Pixie?

[@LuckyGunner]

Give it time...

[@giacomo9650]

Jeez..it's 2018..

[@baron8107]

derweibhai D A N G E R P I X I E . That's a new one.

[@clamum]

I like punk rock, mohawks, and cute girls. Oh, and guns. MOARRRRR

[@iconic4609]

are you sure that's the FBI range test? I'm pretty sure it's a lot harder and the circled target that they shoot is a lot smaller

[@LuckyGunner]

You might be thinking of the old FBI qual. They changed it a few years ago.

[@BicycleFunk]

be as good or better than your FBI guy

[@niklachik]

John has got a lot of ink. Ink is nice.

[@gb93669]

niklachik Different strokes for different folks. I'll never understand why people think putting permanent ink on your limited body real estate is a good idea. Even if you're into it, at some point, you're out of space and then you find a new "must have" tattoo that you can't get. Lol. The majority of ones I've seen tend to fade and look an ugly green/black/red mess. Maybe they needed to be touched up? What if you change your mind too? The really ignorant ones are the names of significant others, and then...oops, no longer significant. Everything cycles in what's fashionable. I wonder if in fifty years, there will be better technology for removal/repair of tattoos and if there will be tons of tattoo removal shops on street corners?

[@alchemistTi]

John might as well carry a long rifle inside the waistband...wow

[@kermitrunner]

Not to be arrogant but an agent is supposed to have some practice at least sometimes and given the time allowed for each round, how could any agent fail this test even with 10mm? The hosts shot much faster than required and I'm sure they all would have 100% if they took their time.

[@LuckyGunner]

The old story about the FBI dumping 10mm because agents couldn't pass the qual is a myth. And they were using a different qual back then anyway.

[@scottparker3323]

lm cutting my hair like melody cause I wanna draw like her....

[@alexmcgregor2854]

Hit the trauma plate? That’s what everyone is aiming at. Better to aim for the chin.

[@perspicacity89]

Who's the girl? She seems cool.

[@ihatenumberinemail]

It's in the description: Melody at citizensdefenseresearch

[@lukaspatty6431]

that's ez mowed...

[@khannooniansingh1360]

Seamus

[@ratcamaro]

They allow FBI agents to have hair like that?

[@LYLEWOLD]

disliked! no tactical mag drop.

[@evanw.b.4026]

lol