Rebuilding a Pontiac 400 V8 AGAIN! After Comp Cams camshaft break in failure!

Рет қаралды 12,019

Lucore Auto and LucoreRacing

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 81

@adamsteele5636 10 ай бұрын

The disappointment in his voice when he opened the box and saw it was another Comp Cam. Lol

@w41duvernay 8 ай бұрын

Some of us would prefer Crane Cams would open back up, but the Comp Cams extreme cam is the best we can get for this engine for now. Edelbrock brought out Comp Cams a while back, because no one would by their Cams. The biggest thing need on a cam is to have the spread between Advertised (.004s SAE) and .050s as low as possible, and on a Pontiac v8 to try to have the LSA around 112 LCA. I don't understand why someone would reuse OEM Pontiac cast rods on a rebuild, even "Uncle Tony on KZbin" noted the Rods are notorious for failing at 12 seconds on the 1/4 mile.

@wilsonbeckett9487 Ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with comp - sounds like the usual flat tappet issue. No clue why anyone still uses them - just plain thick headed and dumb to me with today’s available metallurgy and oils - can’t believe people still ignore it and then blame the cam companies 🤷‍♂️

@chevelleranch7481 10 ай бұрын

I built an engine break in / run stand about 10 years ago. It has proven to be worth its weight in gold to me! It has its own stand alone fuel , cooling, instrumentation and exhaust system. There is nothing worse then breaking in an engine in a fully restored car and having problems. I also run them before painting them most of the time so you don't have to worry about it burning off around exhaust ports on a flat tappet break in. You wont regret building it Rich....

@user-jv8yu7ld7b 2 ай бұрын

Another good trick is the pre-oil the engine with a drill on the drive shaft to the oil pump until you get oil coming out the pushrods then you'll really know that your pre-oiled then ready for startup

@bdd1469 10 ай бұрын

It's not the cams its the lifters not having a proper angle cut on them. Powell machine has rockwell tested the hardness on dozens of cams, and all popular lifters. He has some really good videos on the cause and cure to all these current cam/lifter problems. I've always used Comp cams, but will be switching to Isky as they use Johnson lifters.

@mitchellferre1652 4 ай бұрын

I thought the Johnson lifters supplied by Hughes engines were found unfavorable by Powell machine

@Umwee63 10 ай бұрын

Rich your such a great guy. I wish everyone in this world had your morals and values. Merry Christmas to You and Yours.

@patrickmansfield3967 10 ай бұрын

Whenever I rebuild/build an engine with a flat tappet, hydraulic or solid cam, I always use CamShield break in lube for the cam and lifters. It’s a paste type. Stuff is amazing!

@disolejunk 10 ай бұрын

Follow comp directions. Lots of lube and some even recommend removing inner valve springs for break in. I only use roller cams now.

@user-jv8yu7ld7b 2 ай бұрын

What you need to do is check the camshaft end play Pontiacs notorious for up to 1/8 of an inch of n Play which can cause the lifter to run off the centerline of the lobe therefore causing lifter failure do correct this problem install a cam bumper on the front or the sprocket bolts to the cam

@mikemaccracken3112 10 ай бұрын

Most of the flat tappet lifters are manufactured by off shore companies. I know Isky has been working on bringing lifter manufacturing in house. I recently started using roller cam retrofit kits on the older stuff. I have the luxury of turning down jobs that I think will cause me pain😂. Removing the inner valve springs and use of break in oil has helped me. I also like to keep the water temp as cool as possible, usually run it with a hose in the radiator with the petcock open. Good luck Rich.

@SweatyFatGuy 10 ай бұрын

Funny enough, I have had good luck with the Summit Racing flat lifters. I've had Comp and Lunati flat lifters take out cams. The Comp and Lunati roller lifters I use are freakin great. I don't think they make their own flat cam lifters. Comp Cams are fine, but I use the Summit lifters on them. I build LOTS of Pontiac engines, they are kinda my thing.

@hydroy1 10 ай бұрын

Me to -----Hose in the Rad & the thermostat gutted, just use the outer ring with the petcock open and 2 big fans pushing air. I have not had any F/T cam failures in 50 years.

@hydroy1 10 ай бұрын

@@SweatyFatGuy Me to, if anybody tells me they have a big block Pontiac🙃 just WALK AWAY ! there just not worth our time Any Pontiac from the 1955/ 287 to a 455 all takes the SAME VALVE COVER !. BB Pontiac----- ??? in the words of WC Feilds ------ go away booooooy , you botha me.

@alkennedy1124 10 ай бұрын

They are alllllll bigggg blockkkkkkssss lolllllollllolllo aren’t they lolllllllll just kidding,thanks BigAl California

@robr5786 10 ай бұрын

Hy-lift Johnson are made in Mi,I believe crower uses these in their kit

@kennethchapman9564 10 ай бұрын

The last solid lifter flat tappet cam that I installed in my 13.5 to 1 comp. 428cj was a custom grind from Kuntz & Kraft out of Arkansas that was a Crower cam and lifter set. It was a while ago because all of it was made in the good ole USA. Miss those days. Good luck Rich.

@terryeustice5399 10 ай бұрын

Thanks Rich for the explanation and the reassembling of the Firebird engine. Hope all goes well. You want it right! 💯👍👊

@charlessmith45 10 ай бұрын

After that cam fails--Get ya one from Howards Cams-i believe they have a version of the Ram air 4 cam,use it with their lifters-&have the dlc coating put on them-never look back,or worry about your cam again

@dirtfan05 10 ай бұрын

Agree, i've never had an issue with Howard's cams or lifters. Clay Smith's are fail proof as well.

@SeanJoseph-s2s 10 ай бұрын

You could mic up the all the lobes on the cam to see that you have taper so you know your lifters will rotate with your push rods...thanks Rich ...good content...

@johnhudson1545 5 ай бұрын

the windowed valve covers are genius

@tomgordon9460 10 ай бұрын

You do great work rich.

@captainrick01 10 ай бұрын

Nice work Rich!

@curtpozzi5527 5 ай бұрын

I appreciate your transparency and being candid.

@omgmoredramaplease3726 10 ай бұрын

I was debating with getting a comp cam and went with a crower and have had no issues. Change your oil after break in for sure. Use the lucas 10/40 hot rod oil high in zinc.

@alkennedy1124 10 ай бұрын

We used a ol Cadillac style Camaro front stub on a single axle trailer for our runs down we can take it anywhere and run an engine and sell the engine that way,,, thanks BigAl California

@charlessmith45 10 ай бұрын

Ive use that same black assy lube-broken in two flat tap cams w zero issues with breakin!!--Its got that black moly in it-which is key!-Rub it into the metal real good w rubber gloves on

@drcornelius8275 7 ай бұрын

Amazing dedication to see this job through!

@clintonsmith9931 10 ай бұрын

Watched a video by Powell Machine in SC I think. Talks about lifters going bad and cams He Grinds his own cams, and redoes lifters. Very interesting , even for a very old man like “ nut twister”me.

@zerocontent3171 10 ай бұрын

Summit has your engine run stand for $2510.00. Austin was checking it out at PRI. Looked like a really nice setup.

@curtisendicott5989 10 ай бұрын

Yep I heard the same thing on bad cams all over the place from people on line

@jeffjankiewicz5100 10 ай бұрын

Seems like there are a lot of flat tappet lifter issues lately. Another Comp cam.😖 Hope it goes well Rich.

@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369 10 ай бұрын

Howdy LUCORE, ... Thanks ... COOP ...

@wilga80 10 ай бұрын

Good luck Rich!

@bluesman7475 10 ай бұрын

Quite interesting. You are the 3rd online engine rebuilder that I watch online that has had issues with Comp Cams. I did know they had been purchased by the same holding company that owns Eldebrock. I have heard other mechanics say the believe the comp cams are chinese made these days. Comp Cam was my go to for cams back when I was doing hi po engines in the late 70's to mid 80's. I hope you get lucky with this one.

@tdog6437 6 ай бұрын

Gotta use the best break in oil and use a bottle of the zinc additive. And i do the break-in procedure more than once, letting the engine cool down fully between each procedure. I've even used lighter valve springs for break-in..JS

@mikemontgomery7337 10 ай бұрын

Have the Old Man hook you up w an Isky Cam !!!

@LucoreAuto 10 ай бұрын

We already talked with Isky unfortunately unless it's a Chevy they don't stock anything flat tappet. They can grind one when it's ordered but there's a 2-3 week lead time. Otherwise we certainly would have.

@JohnDoe-ml8ru 4 ай бұрын

Always polish the lobes and check and polish the bottoms of the flat tappet lifters before they are installed. Also always use real break-in oil.

@malcolmdyer6090 10 ай бұрын

Kill the cost, go roller, peace of mind go before originality. My fourth flat tappet installation went bad so I went roller. Now I enjoy my car instead of worrying about the cam.

@daviddntait 10 ай бұрын

I guess I've been lucky for the last 20 years. I worked in a speedshop for a long time and installed lots of flat tappet cams. Never had one fail. However, I see tons of failures out there, even from reputable builders. Even I don't trust the flat tappet anymore. Next cam I do will be a roller.

@terrypetty9822 3 ай бұрын

One HAS to check lifter faces and they MUST be convex on the face. It's easy just take a straight edge and if they don't ROCK on a straight edge send them back they are improperly ground. IMHO it's usually the lifters not the cam. Checking lifter rotation can be done just after installing the cam just put the cam in and turn it by hand. If you want to see under spring pressure, leave the valley pan off then turn the engine. Pontiacs usually have low valve spring pressure so I doubt you will fail if you check all of that.

@alkennedy1124 10 ай бұрын

My 1970 Pontiac Lemans sport coupe automatic 350 chrome front and rear bumpers was isky first car,,and I did a stupid thing and traded it for a pile of junk and 300, dollars, way way back inthe 80 s , it was a vinal top gold /tan int, center shift auto, thanks BigAl California

@bigrsamano 10 ай бұрын

My engine builder went with a custom ground solid roller from comp cams with morel lifters in my 383 stroker. He said he was done with flat tappets

@VernLeRoy1962 10 ай бұрын

I stopped using Flat tappet Cams after 3 failed Break in the last 5 years. one of the cams was a Comp Cam. Now I run Roller Cams, haven't had any issues since I switched. Buy Forged & built in America!!!

@Amxracer 10 ай бұрын

I need to build a engine stand also . I have a 468 I used to run until I blew a oil filter line on the way home from a show . And had to shut the engine down when the gauge went to zero . 😢 cut the filters apart and found bearing material. Would like to build a second 496 for a back up .

@johndillinger8482 10 ай бұрын

bop engineeering didnt have an old cam & lifter set to sell? what about kaufmann's in loudonville?

@BADD400 10 ай бұрын

Use Valvoline VR1 I believe it’s 20W50 racing oil with zinc additive it works on the street

@LucoreAuto 10 ай бұрын

That stuff is kind of hard to find at least around us. Have run VR1 in some race car builds over the years and been pretty dang happy with the results. Holds up well to lots of heat and abuse from what we have seen. Not sure what the zinc on that stuff is but would certainly run an additive as you mention.

@hydroy1 10 ай бұрын

I duno? I just finished a 67 Chevy 327 with a CompCams CL12218-B cam kit and had no issues. However, I replaced everything in the value train with new rockers & balls and push rods and got rid of all them factory locknuts replaced by Poly Locks to give correct per load and KEEP IT LOCKED THERE !. Them cheap factory nuts can backoff. The 327 now has 4,200 miles on it with no issues. It's not the cam or lifters causing the problems. I always buy a extra print can of Iskys black molly hi zinc cam brake in "grease" and drown every part of the cam train with it and that black grease says put forever, plus soak my lifters overnight in Driven brand 30-W brake in oil and pump them up by hand and install them wet with the isky cam grease all over the outside of each lifter. (extra heavy on the lifter face & push rod socket) Call me old school, but all I use is flat tappet cams in rebuilds and haven't had one fail in 50 years. I got to be doing something others are not.

@kickn5k 10 ай бұрын

Need some Crane Cams "super lube" break in concentrate. Seeing as now Comp and Crane are pretty much the same company. Crane would never warranty a cam that wasn't purchased with that little bottle. I use it for every flat tappet 4,6 and V8 camshafts I use(re-grind oem or new billet) never had one fail since.

@kurtzxcvb3481 10 ай бұрын

My problem was machining not the metallurgy hydraulic cams or not cut right either was the cam lobes

@haffrods7055 10 ай бұрын

It's not a re do,,,,,,,, it's practice.

@LucoreAuto 10 ай бұрын

Anything worth doing once, is worth doing twice, right? ;)

@haffrods7055 10 ай бұрын

Especially to do it right and have a happy customer. Nice freakin job as always guys@@LucoreAuto

@ashqelon7267 10 ай бұрын

I've not needed to use a engine stand though is a great thing to have. I would use one if I had opportunity. I went roller cam in my build. I spent time at a cam grinding shop on West coast, yukking it up with the owner, and the consensus IS the lifters & Cam metal is plenty hard as always even compared to Older stuff known to be good and same hardness as new materials. adding "ZDDP" to reg oil trying to make your own chemistry is a BAD IDEA! DON'T DO IT!!!!! The chemistry is wrong! Use "formulated break in oils! Quit being stupid about that! So when do you know the right time to reinstall the other vlv springs? It will be like a secondary break in procedure too..

@antilaw9911 10 ай бұрын

Chrysler 318-360 magnum engines roller valve train since about 89

@alkennedy1124 10 ай бұрын

I ,would ,trade some one ☝️ for one of my Chevy trucks, ,for a good useable 55 Chevy 2or4 door roller, or a 1970 Pontiac Lemans sport coupe 350, ,,, that would be a good day in my world 🌎,I just subscribed to your channel,and I love Pontiac heads with a heart shaped combustion chamber, nice 👍 thanks buddy praise Jesus Christ grace amen 🙏 ,,, thanks BigAl California

@chuckschultz7028 10 ай бұрын

It appears to be a combination of a metallurgy problem with poor heat treating. Either one will destroy lifters or any other highly stressed parts. The OEMs moved on from solid lifter/flat tappets over 30 years ago in favor of roller/hydraulic lifters. Remember GM's "soft camshaft" fiasco? When the best minds in the automotive world give up on a technology, it might be wise to upgrade vintage motors as well. Especially for infrequently driven vehicles that are subjected to severe service.

@bdd1469 10 ай бұрын

It's not a metallurgy problem, it's a machining problem. The China lifters everyone is rebranding do not have a proper face on them. Powell machine has some really good videos where he Rockwell test the hardness of a bunch of cams and lifters, shows you how flat the lifter faces are, and how he used to recut them. He has since sold that part of his machine shop because he could not keep up with demand.

@chuckschultz7028 10 ай бұрын

Possibly, but Chinese metallurgy and heat treating are far more likely. The exterior of a part can be checked non-destructively. Metallurgy and heat treat checks require expensive and time consuming lab checks. Lots of OEMs have learned their lesson from warranty claims and reputational damage in many product categories.

@keithruf-nu3gs 10 ай бұрын

It's ridiculous to have to worry about parts integrity from inferior materials.i remember when everybody had cam issues back in mid 90d when they took the zink out of oil they really didn't tell anybody.

@Amxracer 10 ай бұрын

Cool 😎 !

@davidgough1161 10 ай бұрын

Just my opinion, we have too many off shore pieces coming into the pipeline of engines. You cant make precision instruments with chinesium and expect longevity. Things must be made with the correct metals to survive.

@alertgasper 10 ай бұрын

blame the consumer who wants cheap stuff, including the fleet owner--we have two levels of machine shop now as a result, the "good enough" price point and the "i never want to see you again" level.

@sampson7941 5 ай бұрын

There are about 2 places in the country id take a pontiac to be rebuild. No offense to lucore but there are specialty builders.

@gordongrimes4088 10 ай бұрын

dip stick tubes never read correctly, the dip stick is what tells how much oil there is in the pan.

@alertgasper 10 ай бұрын

when we complain about "chineseum" parts and their metalurgy, remember they are using the metals we ship them for recycling. we give up our cheap crap and...karma runs over our dogma.

@apachebill 10 ай бұрын

Comp cam cores are made in America.

@alertgasper 10 ай бұрын

@@apachebill the cores are, but it seems to be the flat tappet lifters Comp and others buy in bulk that are doing the dirty--either the surface material or machining process. Uncle Tony's Garage and some other channels here have done some digging, and that's what they're coming up with. The Chevy, Ford, and Mopar boys caught a break, they can still find roller lifter blocks in the junkyards at affordable prices while people rush to the LS engine. We try to get a roller setup for a BOP engine and we have to make sure it's not such a radical ramp it snaps the Pontiac's lifter bores off the valley. Pity, the BOP family was such an affordable go-to for torque-y engines.