Pontiac V8: Retrofitting factory GM Roller Lifters

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

At 6:33 I should have said SMALLER not LARGER.

[@kevinmanning4880]

Thank you for a greT video and Jim Lehart.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

You’re welcome! Jim was a great treasure in helping me with the info for this video!

[@danw.8180]

Please do a final video on this. Thanks for doing the investigation and posting the video.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

I had some cam bearing issues w/ the 455, so it’s gonna get a rebuild. I’ll do a full install video then.

[@danw.8180]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms Sorry to hear you had problems with the 455, but the build videos will be great.

[@firebird70]

good to now have a video on youtube about this very topic - well done Crawdaddy

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Thank you! I appreciate it 😎👍🏻

[@edsmachine93]

Good tip with the modifications. I just subscribed to you guys. Great and useful content. Thank you, EM.

[@rodolfo23cr]

Have an update on the Elgin lifters.. Got the ones I bought with part number HL-2148S, 4 boxes of 4, all boxes properly branded as Elgin, 2 made in the USA and 2 made in Mexico.. Curiously enough the ones labeled as made in Mexico look identical to the Sealed Power lifter from your video and the ones labeled as made in the USA look identical to the Elgin lifter on your video.. Now I have 8 that work and 8 that don't.. I bought the Sealed Power HT2148 anyway so I should be fine.. but still wanted to share..

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Thanks for the update! Always good to know which parts are which.

[@rodolfo23cr]

I unfortunately bought the Elgin lifters, which I haven't received yet, before watching this video but I'm pretty I'm going to receive exactly the same you got. I bought mine on ebay too and the pictures show the box, which say Made in USA. In some of the pictures I can see they are identical to these. I have also looked at numerous adds and they all look the same. The part number is HL-2148S and I suppose the S points to a different design that is not HL-2148, which is supposed to be the one identical to the Sealed Power you have. I have not found a single one labeled just as HL-2148 anywhere.. I'm thinking the ones you have may be genuine Elgin but just a slightly different model. I can update once I receive mine. I went ahead and purchased the Sealed Power anyway...

[@rohrt1]

Great video thanks for putting that together. One thing I wish you would have added is where the lifter bore oil hole is in relation to the lifter position. On pontiacs the oil hole is pretty high in the bore causing the lifter skirt to block it off as the lifter comes down and thus stop the pump up. I know many on the PY site are doing a lifter bore mode where they dremel a groove down about 1/4 inch.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Good point, Ryan. I scrapped a bunch of filming and redid stuff to simplify the video, but I didn’t address the relationship of the lifter bore feed hole vs oil band location... I’ll have to remember that. I’ve been speaking w/ Jim Lehart- he’s a wealth of knowledge, and since he pioneered this, he’s got a lot of insight- he feels the change from piddle valve lifters to piston valving makes a huge oiling improvement. I’ve read of many folks saying their oil pressure improved, so I’m betting this is due to what Jim was talking about.

[@pontiacontap]

I responded on the PY forums and forgot to comment here. Appreciate the deeper dive into this. There's still some things to be fleshed out, which is what hot rodding is all about. I think Arrow Injuneering is likely on top of the few issues like dog bone rise from the non-machined surface of the lifter. One thing I'm seeing with these discussions is the desire to start modifying things with mills etc. I'm of the opinion that once you start going down that route, this is no longer a feasible option for the basic hobbyist. Not everyone has access to these types of tools and having it done removes any cost and ease of use savings over a traditional link bar lifter. I love how my hydraulic roller performs, I hate how it sounds with clattering lifters. I'm hopeful this will be a solution, but more and more I find myself eyeing a solid flat tappet lifter on a nitrited cam.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

I’m excited to see what Randy Repp comes up with, but I’ve been speaking w/ Jim Lehart about this- he has over 20 conversions out there. He is super confident that the Ford spider(modded by splitting it and adding studs, washers, and lock nuts) will do all we need it to. I’m going to continue on with his version of the conversion... once I figure out what’s going on w/ my engine :-/ I’ll make a post on PY showing my cam bearing issues.

[@Se7enthsonSS]

So I actually bought new lifters. Engine builder put in far left, and new comp cams ones came with that sealed power look with tighter oil hole. I was thinking the second from right was wrong

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Is it up and running? Everything doing what it’s supposed to do?

[@Se7enthsonSS]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms waiting on heads. My press in Studs pulled at 6000rpm. I’ll have it all in next week hopefully and I’ll come back. Everything I’ve read says these are good. Just different than what I had. I HAD far right (not left) when I pulled them so I was concerned at first I got the wrong ones

[@edsmachine93]

Great tip Crawdaddy. What are you going to use for Link bars. And are spiders? This will be a lower cost alternative for hydraulic roller cam installation. Great content. Thank you, EM.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

The Ford 5.0L Windsor dog bones can be lightly sanded on the back(block) side and used. The Ford spider can be cut and separated, then aligned and welded/braced/etc. to offer an almost bolt-in solution.

[@patrickharrand]

Great info. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Subscribed.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Thanks, Patrick! I appreciate it!

[@hydroy1]

Think I will just stick with solid flat tappet cam & lifters. Always did like the early Sid Erson 500HLH .505 lift with a .308 Der. on a 108 C/L. Killer cam in a 389/ 400 for top end pull. Only bad part is water temp in heavy traffic.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Might check the water pump impeller to divider plate clearance. If it’s too big, the engine will run hot. I put mine on the water pump w/o a gasket and get the gap as tight as I can, then put the gasket in place so there’s clearance.

[@rogerhankins6905]

I've seen so many lefter pics of them falling that I'm afraid to change them on my 71 gto convertible with a 455 I may do. roller rocker and keep the stockl lifters just unsure at this point

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

I hear ya. It’s a damn shame we can’t trust something as simple as a lifter.

[@InvincibleExtremes]

Now THAT'S hotrodding.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Thanks, man! I’m not the inventor of it, but I heard about his idea and decided to give it a go!

[@mistyl32]

from 8:00 thru 11:40 you do not have cam in all the way. you can see the oil holes in the journal lined up with a lifter hole.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Cam bearings were chewed up badly, so I only mocked up enough to be able to test and record. Good eye!

[@rodolfo23cr]

So looking at minute 12:05 with the Sealed Power on top of the lobe at max lift, I see the flat portion of the lifter where the dogbone retainers go seem to be too high. Shouldn't we see only the flat portion of the lifter sticking out of the lifter bore of the block so that the dog bone retainer system work? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm preparing myself to do this. In that same line, I didn't understand why the AC Delco wouldn't work?

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

The dogbone riding out out the bore is the issue we have to contend with via the spider retainer. Ideally, it’d stop at the top of the bore. Unfortunately, that’s not the case… Jim (Mr. Peabody) who fathered this whole concept said he has about 25 units running this setup without issues using the modified SBF dogbones. I was trying to come up with a hybrid dogbone that had a relief in the bottom to accommodate the SP lifter… I saw a guy on PY created exactly what I was proposing. I haven’t checked on his progress, so I don’t know if he produced them.

[@rodolfo23cr]

@@CrawdaddyCustomsyeah I have been in touch with Jim, seems like I’ll be the next one running this setup very soon! I asked about this to him briefly after I made this comment, he said the retainers are just guides and are low stress parts so shouldn’t be a big concern. When you say “modified” do you mean just grinding the side that faces the block or is there anything else? I noticed my retainers are flat while the others I’ve seen have some inclination in the lower side, I hope that is ok..

[@ChrisLincolnHomes]

Very cool. You used a pic from my PY thread. :)

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Cool. Which one? I tried to give credit to any I used. Hope I didn’t miss yours.

[@ChrisLincolnHomes]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms It was the LS7 Lifters thread.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Apologies, I missed giving you credit :-/

[@ChrisLincolnHomes]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms Absolutely no need to apologize for anything. I thought it was pretty cool that's all.

[@mattkurtz8549]

I have so many questions , what length push rod , how do I fasten down the dog bones,

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

The pushrods will have to be measured for, but I hear BBF 429 ones are super close. The retainer issue was being worked on by a guy named Randy. He came up w/ a single plate that’s adjustable- I haven’t heard much in a month or so, but it was about finished, last I saw.

[@codyleemeece]

How would you go about a spider plate/dog bone setup for a Pontiac V8 block?

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

You can use the SB Ford piece. Cut it in half and spread the two sections apart so they line up with the lifters, then bolt it down. I’d join the two sections together with some metal, just to be sure they don’t move, but I’ve seen guys running the SBF spider just cut in half and securely bolted… I purchased a separate spider from Comp Cams- they’re about $10. I’m going to overlap the two spiders; cut them where they overlap; weld the two sections together… now I’ll have a one piece, bolt-in spider. Another option: go to a local sheet metal shop and have the cut, drill, and bend one to your specs.

[@codyleemeece]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms thanks for the heads up!!

[@brucefulper2433]

Other than looking our for oil band compatibility, What is your point??? All max lobe lift is always going to be shorter than the journal. I don't understand why you killed time on that. . And you can find those Ford sockets in the junkyard. I found two of them, They're great.

[@RMH8520]

Where did you find the USA made Sealed Power lifters? I bought 1 to do the same test as you from Napa and it was made in Mexico.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

I ordered from a few places: Amazon, EBay, and Rock Auto.

[@franciscotrujillo4961]

Hello friend, I have a question related to this, if I remove all the lifters and activate the oil pump, should the same amount come out of all the ducts that feed the lifters? I am telling you this because in my engine, with the engine running and the rocker arm covers removed, not all of them release the same amount of oil on the rocker arms and if there is one that shoots jets that make the pressure clockwise The oil oscillates, is it possible that this lifter is causing so much noise in the engine, knock-knock type, and that the oil does not reach the other lifters properly, why does the pressure go away from that one? Greetings I hope you can help me

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Best bet for this- go to Performance Years Pontiac forums. There are a lot of guys there who can help you troubleshoot issues like this.

[@LSxHunter]

That's the hurdle with Chinese stuff - sometimes you win - sometimes you lose. Sealed Power and Elgin are SUPPOSED to come from the same factory but we all know how that goes 😂

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Yeah, the ‘Elgin’ ones I got said “OEM Lifters” on the plastic box. Before I looked in the box, I knew they were fake china garbage. 😡

[@terrypetty9822]

WHY did you SWITCH CAMS to the FLAT TAPPET to make the final point ? Sniff sniff

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

Since the peak of the roller cam and peak of the flat tappet are the same, and I was after getting a visual of where the oil band lines up using a factory lifter, I didn’t feel like pulling it back out to shoot the roller lifter on the cam peak. I figured peak lift is peak lift, so I used the cam that was in there.

[@gidkid1958]

A beginner question for you. I have a stock 70 Pontiac 350. I would like to use a roller cam. Is there any machining I need to do to use a roller cam (assuming Sealed Power roller lifters are used). Do you have a recommendation for a mild street roller cam? Stock converter and 3:08 gears.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

I see Butler Performance is marketing small rollers. I would contact them- I’m guessing they would have exactly what you’re after.

[@lawsonharsch3332]

So have we actually gotten an answer on a roller lifter set up that works? The thread ended in February of 2022… no one actually got it working?

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

The thread that I posted info on at PY had pics and info from Jim ‘Mr. P-body’ Lehart who said he has about 25 engines successfully running the HT lifters and modded Ford Windsor spider. I had some bad news on my test motor, coupled w/ income issues, so it’s been put on hold until I can get situated… but I’m still pursuing an idea to run dog bones and a retainer that’ll keep the lifters in place/adjustable.

[@lawsonharsch3332]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms I’m about to throw some in my 455 I think! HT1248 lifters? Worst case: they rise too much and dog bones can’t be modified enough, so I return everything except the spider/retainer as new and get another flat tappet set up.

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

@@lawsonharsch3332 Mr P-body’s deal was to lightly sand the block side of the Ford retainers. It doesn’t take a whole lot of sanding for clearance. Comp makes a retrofit Ford kit w/ spider and dog bones 31-1000. It’s about $55.

[@lawsonharsch3332]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms I caught that watching the LSXhunter video. I see that the lifters have the flat sides to prevent rotation, so I’m assuming that when they lift up past that they will then lift the dog bones?

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

@@lawsonharsch3332 Yes, that’s why the spider is a spring too- it keeps downward pressure on the dog bone(retainer), allowing a slight rocking of the retainer as the lifters move up and down.

[@scottnorris8571]

So have you ran a completed a running engine with this setup yet ?

[@CrawdaddyCustoms]

No, my cam bearings were trashed in the 455, so it’s gonna need a full rebuild. The man who pioneered the Ford dog bones/spider set up, Jim Lehart, has several dozen in service. There are a few guys on PY Forums who have the Ford setup running… I just want to get a better version for the Pontiac V8 so the average guy can do a weekend conversion.

[@scottnorris8571]

@@CrawdaddyCustoms Thank you