Nightmares on the 451 Big Block Mopar Stroker! But have we found the issue? At "Uncle Bob" McVay's

[@LucoreAuto]

Well, the saga continues! But at least NOW we are learning!

[@79tazman]

with all the issues fixed I think it should run 550 HP or about that at 5600 rpm

[@darrenbrisson4336]

Damn chevy boys it's a Mopar they put bulletins out on how to build a engine like the small block l.a series and big block b and r.b series they tell you exactly what combos to run to achieve certain specs I had a factory bulletins photo copied duotang and it showed you what to do to run 13s, 12's,11's,10's,9's etc etc if you're going to run a Mopar head you go koffel b.1 or indy or the stealth from 440 source or go with the bulletins and get the patterns they sell through Mopar performance and port the heads 11.5 compression 300+ duration cam and 850 to 930 cfm carb if you want performance go Mopar performance they have the right cams

[@clydegreenwood5673]

I like watching this kind of videos

[@karlsracing8422]

Wow? You got taken on that engine!

[@kennethchapman9564]

Lock out the distributor see if that helps. My 428cj did that too. Heads must really be choking down the motor. Ran a much larger cam than that in my 428cj with factory CJ heads that had been shaved and running TRW 12.5 domed pistons and made 580/550 horsepower/ft lbs of torque on aviation gas. Harlan Sharp Roller 1.76 rockers and the cam was flat tappet solid lifter 600+ lift long duration dual profile camshaft Comp Cams special grind for Kuntz&Kraft Ford FE motor gurus.

[@michaelphelps5064]

Watching this video made me so proud of myself. I had a 383 sbc. When it was time for a freshen up and hp upgrade, I took my block and crank to the machine shop that had helped me build it initially. The son was now running the shop. After a short conversation, about his father helping me some years back, I told him I wanted 500hp and didnt want to spin the engine over 7000 rpm. He told me he could make 500+ hp and not spin it over 6500 rpm. He understood I was not worried about 2500 rpm torque and wanted my power from 4000 and up. For just over $5000 I got a totally forged short block, aluminum heads, hydraulic roller cam, all new everything! On dyno day I only brought the carburetor to put on the engine. It made 543 hp at 6200 rpm on 93 octane shell pump gas. If I had tried to put the combo together, it would have ended up like your Mopar big block. A big disappointment. I'm sorry for your misfortune at enging building. I'm glad I made the right decision this time, letting the engine builder and machinest build my engine. Uncle Bob is going to get you straightened out. You can bet on that.

[@jefferylewis2105]

Mopar is like one of those very satisfying videos. Nothing like it when you get one right. 805 horsepower at 6500

[@LucoreAuto]

We were really hoping to get straight to the celebration phase with this thing and skip the heartache and nightmares phase. Unfortunately 2 years and THOUSANDS of dollars later.... yeahhh.... but at least now we know

[@jefferylewis2105]

@@LucoreAuto ya I like the sound of it and size of it , stroke and bore not crazy. Cam wild , keep it, working around it. Hang on to rv trans clutches ? Makes shifting fun , light spring,no spring. Can burn a set of slicks in a couple runs. Air in air out, big long tube headers,sound always appreciated, prefer ceramic!

[@duanedahljr1669]

Some setups with Sniper don't like dual plane intakes. I ran the sniper with an RPM Air gap, and it would consistently foul 2 cylinders. Swapped in a Victor Jr and that problem ceased. I've run that cam with mid 70s 440 heads that I home ported and was running mid 12 sec 1/4 s with an OE six pack with 4.10 rear gear. What casting are those heads? What spark plugs are you using?

[@toverturf9097]

@@duanedahljr1669 I agree, I'd have a single plane on it.

[@toverturf9097]

@@jefferylewis2105 I don't know why you think thats a crazy cam it's not...but I still think the rockers will give you problems. If the cam was designed for 1.5 rockers that's what it needs otherwise you have the wrong cam...

[@boblamantia1259]

Use 6-Pak pistons, 484-284 purple shaft cam and 906 heads. It will give you more fun than you can stand. Definately more than Moma can handle.

[@jeffpennington2043]

Good for nitres..... M R. Mcvay HE'S GOT IT... 6..+ 🇺🇸👍📹👀🎰💪🇺🇸

[@LucoreAuto]

There ARE lose plans for putting some NO2 on this motor at some point but if we had done that with it behaving as it was... bad bad things would have happened quickly.

[@79tazman]

I know so many people that have had issues with the holley sniper system so I am not surprised that it giving you the same issues

[@electrix6751]

You can't beat a 750 cfm Holley double pumper on a hi-rise single plane intake on this engine. Leave fuel injection for modern cars.

[@cameronmackenzie4410]

@@electrix6751 fuel injection? The Sniper is more like an electric carburetor...junk. a good performance carb definitely beats the sniper throttle body injection. True performance fuel injection has a injector for each cylinder and uses an O2 sensor on each exhaust bank.

[@dinadaughtry8993]

yep,carb is a better choice

[@jerryhatrick5860]

Yup rv heads. Knew this would happen simce watching from the begining. Even thoughbim way late To the show.

[@richshim4621]

I just can't get enough of these videos! It feels like I am kid again waiting for the next episode of DRAGON BALL Z *announcer voice*. Learning a lot from this video, thank you for posting it.

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for watching glad you are enjoying and learning from all this! These are some expensive classes for sure! Stay tuned for the NEXT Episode! ;)

[@TheGhjgjgjgjgjg]

Lol, If you grew up in Canada you remember the rage when you raced home for the new episode only to realize they had reset the show back to THE BEGINNING. That's right, it aired once a week and there are over 500+ episodes in the series.

[@lautburns4829]

I measured my set of four forty source head cc= 69!

[@LucoreAuto]

That's a pretty damn small chamber! Running pump gas or piston still in the hole a bit?

[@lautburns4829]

Yes it is. .020 down, .060 cometic gaskets, running on 94, using stock distributor timing, set at 7 before. Flat tops with reliefs on one side. 528 C.I. Drives nice around town and backroads, using 5speed tremec, 800 cfm carb.

[@dinadaughtry8993]

440source stealth heads are basically 906 castings made of aluminum, they do flow a little better but they were meant for mild street builds and when painted they look like stock cast iron heads

[@lautburns4829]

Yes Dina, when on the dyno all tuned I recorded 671HP with 743 pounds/ feet of torque. Pulls my charger around the back roads of New York real nice.

[@dinadaughtry8993]

​@@lautburns4829dang that was a year ago, I bet that the engine is still running well and in a charger those numbers sound awesome street car hope my 73 charger fares as well

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Well that was interesting.

[@LucoreAuto]

Thoughts?

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

@@LucoreAuto Seems pretty far down the hole and I question the concept of the pocket. Trust not, advertised compression ratio.

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Looks like the IC836 piston. Maybe 0.040 down the hole isn't terrible.. These come with 0.990 floating wrist pins? IMO, will make life a bit easier down the road. Everything I've found so far indicates these should work well with the OEM heads. I wonder if how poorly it ran with 1.5 rockers.

[@mickangio16]

As the captain said- I wish you had tried engine with just the rockers changed to 1.5 (and springs if you felt was critical). You may have been satisfied with results.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mickangio16 honestly, wish we had too like a year and a half ago. It would have been a simple solution to our issue and saved us a ton of time and money. Unfortunately our engine builder refused to and would not accept any answer beyond "the heads just won't flow enough".

[@moparme2733]

Wow sad but very informativ look foeward to next video thanks for sharing.

[@LucoreAuto]

Yeahhhhhh there were lots of negative emotions at this point, but gotta fight through it. It gets better keep watching!

[@mickangio16]

👍Do the Mopar thang, Bro.

[@LucoreAuto]

One way or another we're doing the Mopar thing and learning along the way. This thing will be considerably more of a monster than we initially planned but... oh well.

[@mpetersen6]

One way to potentially know if cast iron heads have been machined. The head face if it looks like one smooth surface (but not ground) it has not been machined. This depends on the factory machining process. If heads were machined the way I think they probably were the first operation on the machining line would be to run the castings through a broaching operation the head would be fed into a fixture valve fover side up clamped and the fixture swung up into position. The cutting tools are then run across the surface being cut. The fixture goes down and unclamps. The transfer system feeds the casting into a section that then rolls the casting over. The casting is then feed into the second fixture head face side up. The fixture swings up into place and the ram carrying the tools runs back across in the opposite direction cutting the head face. The tooling in these machines basically function as very large files that produce a very smooth finish. This was pretty standard practice on cast iron heads machined on transfer lines. Also look at the combustion chambers to see if there is a small raised area in the casting in two of the combustion chambers. This is two of the three locations the head would sit on when clamped for the first operation. Typically the head would be clamped with clamps that go through the valve opening and clamp on the port surface. I spent 30+ years working in the Tool Room of an engine manufacturing plant so l have very good understanding of just how automotive engines are manufactured.

[@LucoreAuto]

Now THAT'S a good bit of knowledge to file away for future use and conversations Sir, thank you! The heads have been touched, the surface was made "true and flat" so there are obvious signs of the process that can be seen. Unfortunately what needed to be done was a good amount of meat cut off the surface to get our compression up to where it needed to be. The previous builder never bothered to check the CC or to mill the heads down as he should have, hence where we are stuck with the low compression portion of our problem.

[@mpetersen6]

@@LucoreAuto Just my opinion but I really think if somebody wants truely consistent chamber volume across all cylinders the way to get it is by machining the chambers. IIRC some manufactures might have done that. Pontiac? Although I'm assuming your Edelbrocks are. One thing with milling the head face is manifold to tapped holes in the head alignment and port matching.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mpetersen6 Yep unfortunately due to the issues we are having there's going to have to be a considerable amount of material taken off these brand new heads, which will change how they mate, which means we need to remove material from the intake side/intake manifold. In a perfect world we would be able to get most of our compression bump from cutting the deck of the block, unfortunately that's not really an option now.

[@douglascooper1987]

It Sounds Like it's Floating the Valves? Lifter Pump Up and Bad Valve Springs? Which MotorHome Heads are They? 452,346,908,213? I've Personally Ran Mid 11s in a 3250 lb Duster with 452s with Big Valves and 509 Purple Shaft, on 93 Octane. The Guys at Muscle Motors years ago Made Over 600hp With Mildly Ported 452s On a 440 Too. So the Heads Should Work Fine.🤷

[@electrix6751]

Precisely!

[@thomasward4505]

Your videos are good they are just too long for most people

[@LucoreAuto]

We can understand that and we definitely put out much longer videos than most channels do. We try to not hide any of the experience good or bad from our viewers AND our customers. Still working on the balance of entertainment and educational 😀

[@electrix6751]

You don't speak for "most people", you're only speaking for yourself, a nitwit with a short attention span. No one is forcing you to watch the entire video. Personally, I love "too long" YT automotive videos.

[@Torquemonster440]

Yep.. valve spring issue. .008 from coil bind !! 😬 .. recipe for disaster. You wanna shoot for somewhere between .080-.100 thousandts coil bind clearance with a standard dual spring. Great info keep it going.👍

[@LucoreAuto]

Yeahhhh as soon as Bob found out we were so close to coil bind that was basically light bulb moment. How in the world the original builder didn't catch this as an issue I don't know, he was the that spec'd out and ordered the cam and did all the head work. We MIGHT have been fine swapping to a 1.5 rocker versus the 1.6 but even then it would have been a bit close. Unfortunately, lessons learned and that's why we're sharing everything with folks. Hopefully people are learning from the issues we are having. Or at least enjoying pointing and laughing at us ;)

[@Torquemonster440]

@@LucoreAuto yep, I always learn the hard way too brother. Those Eddie heads will clear .540 lift no problem. I believe they leave the factory ready to accept up to .600 lift. Just spring/shim accordingly. Look forward to the results. 👍

[@218422100]

So when you say "motorhome" heads, are those 452's? I have a 1974 Charger SE with a stock 400 and I'm pretty sure it has 452's on it. I'm wanting to do a similar build so I'm digg'n these video's and all the info you're throwing at us. I'm down in Groveport so gonna stop by and hopefully meet you guy's and she her car this summer...💯😎 BTW....do you know anyone around who does interiors? I need my front buckets reupholstered.

[@electrix6751]

I'm pretty sure that what he's referring to.

[@maximuswedgie5149]

I have a 451 Stroker in my 65 Coronet. Bone stock heads ran 15.4 at Julesburg.

[@electrix6751]

That's slow. A bone stock 1968-70 383 Road Runner from the factory ran mid-to-high 14 seconds in the quarter when new.

[@maximuswedgie5149]

@@electrix6751 I’m in Colorado………so we are both right.

[@grngs1]

Intake to head doesnt have ANYTHING to do with too much air for the tiny head, the intake will only flow what the head pulls thru it, If you were turbo or supercharging then its a different story, air is being PUSHED INTO the head

[@electrix6751]

Correct. The dyno guy is wrong.

[@heatherrigby7371]

480 HP @ 4500RPM. Very interesting and well explained to my limited knowledge. Donnie

[@dinadaughtry8993]

Not Edelbrock, just break down and get some Trick Flow heads 240for the mild street cam but I would go bigger and get some 270 for the big bore and long stroke

[@toverturf9097]

Don't discount the stock heads, I have a buddy running mid 10s on them in NHRA stock class, that's unported cast iron heads. NHRA let them use Edelbrock E heads and they made exactly the same power. Like I said I have a 452/440 that makes 525hp with pocket ported 452 smog heads, I also have one that makes 645hp with 915 heads, the 915s are ported. Was the retainer to valve seal clarence checked at full lift? I would recommend going over the valve job on those Edelbrocks there casting are known for being porous, dropping valves and cracks. The only aluminum head I recamend for a general performance build on a BB Mopar is Trick Flow 240. Good luck

[@LucoreAuto]

One of the reasons we wanted to film all this and go through all the time/expense is exactly for this reason. To give some honest experience and numbers to people who are interested in building something similar. Part of why I continually bristled about people just saying "The Heads are Junk", they really aren't. In the form they are now if everything ELSE had been correct they would have easily been able to make 450+hp The Edelbrock heads we ALWAYS tear down and check everything, even though they say "Bolt on and Go" only a fool would do that. These ones should be quite capable of making some very serious power for her Charger.

[@jefferylewis2105]

Agreed personally I ran early 4 bbl heads I ported myself on milled w2 heada I ported with the 205 valve on a 340 . At Bradenton running 10.5 on Mickey Thompsons putting moth balls in fuel. All the tricks learned in illinois. Never won a race at strip. Done well in street. A to b. Knight station road Lakeland Fla. Beating badass mustang creeping up on bad Bob's big block Chevy. As a machinist you can go crazy over thinking everything . So he's right simple paths to real horsepower. I think your debating big or small tire. Cam says that. Duration vs valve timing, hence injection options. The learning curve, man vs lap top. Like thermoquad, great vacuum learning , die at starting line carb.raced avs/ edlbrock w dodge. Holley easier better. Worked a holey rundgren in decatur I'll aLso Bill Thompson Bill didn't wanna stroke anything. Holey said if you do then you gotta do this , this ,and this . There is your money. Was building a stroker 400 Pontiac then. Bla bla. Point is that at least 306 duration cam is what you want , fuel thing,is that thing on top smart enough? This is big tire territory? Just sayin

[@karlsracing8422]

Aluminum is the only way to go sorry just wasting money on heavy cast iron.

[@bw3506]

I see more than one head guy claim that the 452s actually flow a little better than the 915-906 type heads if they aren't fully ported.

[@toverturf9097]

@@karlsracing8422 It might be but you can make power with factory iron heads, you just need more intelligence than just ordering parts. On that 645 hp 440 of mine the last refresh I replaced all the valves spring and retainers for less than a grand. I suppose I could have stent 2500 on new heads but why? Much more power and I'm against the strength of the block. I built this 440 in 1990 it has more than 2000 ten second passes and 10000 miles on it. For a mild build like the one featured here a set a pocket ported heads shaved to 80cc would work great. With all the problems with Edelbrock there's no way in hell I'd put the on another engine. I've seen water leaks from porous castings,drop seats and valves and one head that cracked 6" along the side of the head and Edelbrock doesn't stand behind them. There junk! I've seen problems with Indy heads also, Trickflow seams to be the best heads for the mopars. I've seen 760hp with unported TF. 240 Heads...

[@rogercrawford8372]

I feel the pain.

[@bw3506]

I've got a low deck 470 with the Eddy heads a Hughes H3236 cam (Less duration than your's but more lift) 10.3 compression performer RPM intake. It makes 545hp 610tq. I would expect yours to be around that but maybe less TQ

[@LucoreAuto]

We're hoping to see somewhere in the 520hp range, honestly going to be interesting to see what the torque number is. Missing as much compression as we were is going to make a big difference. Thanks for the info, will definitely be good to compare the two!

[@bw3506]

@@LucoreAuto 👍

[@afastcuda1970]

BBM's should accidentally make 500hp. I have to question some of your choices. Get rid of that Chevy cam and put a Mopar specific grind in there.

[@electrix6751]

Yep. Hughes cams are designed for Mopar engines' larger lifter base circle. They'd be my choice.

[@chriswilliams1688]

You need 10 to10.50 to 1 compression for that big of cam I because I ran a simular size cam at one time

[@LucoreAuto]

Yes sir, which is where we should be with the aluminum heads once they are finished being "Uncle Bob" worked. Definitely way too much cam shaft for what we were looking for out of this motor originally but we'll have to do what we can do.

[@chriswilliams1688]

@@LucoreAuto I had a 10.5 to 1 440 with cast iron heads but I also had a flat top piston in it

[@chriswilliams1688]

@@LucoreAuto It also was a closed chamber head

[@karlsracing8422]

I have never seen so many problems in all my years with an engine, this thing should scream past 6,000 easily.

[@LucoreAuto]

It's been a doozy for sure. Imagine our frustrations.

[@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369]

HOWdy LUCORE, Thanks for SORTING this OUT in front of US ... getting to know Misses "FLO" Cast IRON vs ALUMINUM ... COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

[@ronmcintyre633]

Sorry, I ran that similar cam profile in a stock head 383 and ran well over 5500 rpm. Your problem is elsewhere.

[@LucoreAuto]

Keep watching! The saga continued on that motor

[@ronmcintyre633]

@@LucoreAuto That is why a good machinist is worth every dollar. Sorry you had to go through a bad machinist to start with.

[@jasonbowles539]

Also Edelbrock makes a 73-75cc head for Mopar also vs the 83-85cc head, would mean less decking and other issues. Could also 0 deck that block so the Pistons aren't in the hole.

[@LucoreAuto]

Yes they do unfortunately they were totally sold out of those when we went to buy them, also we had NO idea what the CC of the cast iron heads were. Our previous engine builder neglected to check that. As for 0 decking the block, yes absolutely that would have been an option and something that was SUPPOSED to have been done previously. Unfortunately doing that now... essentially mean starting this entire engine build all over again.

[@mpetersen6]

@@LucoreAuto If the piston to deck face was not done and you paid for the machining I hope you have some recourse.

[@DarrensTruckzs]

Wow !! Intresting ..., very very intresting! I really appreciate this video An your honesty , it’s a real deal situation that unfortunately mostly to you An your wife I think you said it’s for her car , to go through all this, as building an engine should be exciting And fun , an something to look forward to!! Which clearly is not the case here for you guys ! But in the end I believe you are with the right machinist an guy to help you get back on the right track an when all said an done , will hopefully bring back that fun exciting time when putting back in the car An running it for the first time an so on ! Thanks for doing this video , An also for the machinist for letting you do this video an being patient an very helpful as like most top notch machinists they’re time is very hard to get an very valuable An comes with a considerable cost ! I look forward to the next video as well , an jus to let you know I like the in depth details that you share an if it’s a longer video thanks some ,, I don’t care I’d rather that an that way get to see an Hera all of what’s happening step by step an how it turns out in the end with final numbers an running wise an what u had to change an such !! I think this is one of the most informative videos I’ve seen in any video in a long time .. it really shows folks how all the wrong mismatch parts can work against a guy or engine... that’s why a good machinist suggests going with parts that are matched to do good with each other type thing !! Anyways keep on keepin on your getting there... 👍

[@prettyboyfloyd3397]

Another story about an Assembler and not an Engine builder

[@boblamantia1259]

Glad to see you took those junk heads off. Nice job on your final numbers. Would be nice to see it in a final comparison with the other motors.

[@duanedahljr1669]

IMO, you would be best served in this build to get a custom spec cam for this setup, or swap out pistons for flat tops that com to 0 deck height. I wouldn't deck them heads until the pistons OR cam has been addressed. Plug fouling with the Sniper is more to do with intake selection. I had that issue with the air gap rpm intake, Victor Jr fixed that problem.

[@mickangio16]

Plug heat range probably cold. Use a hotter plug.

[@ferdinandcuevas8457]

Have You tried the Pro-flo 4 system ?

[@jasonbowles539]

They don't make a setup on b block mopars only RB engines last I looked.

[@karlsracing8422]

Yeah those cast iron have been touched up! No way stock they'd flow that much

[@LucoreAuto]

Slightly worked yes, which makes this all the more frustrating. Knowing they were good enough to flow way more than they were allowed to. That the money was spent to get all this done, and fail from something simple.

[@garydavies5973]

Feel for ya bro, that's going to be around the 8.4:1 with a dynamic of around 6.5:1. To get that up to 10.5 with your edelbrock heads your going to have to get them down to 65cc's, probably around .100" out of them. Just the WRONG PISTONS. Set of flat tops with 4-6cc relieves in at zero deck will sort it out with the 84cc edelbrocks as they are or could be milled down to 80cc for a 10.5:1.

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately we're kind of stuck as to "fix it" options, short of tearing it all down and starting completely over again by swapping pistons and cutting the deck, the only thing we can do is cut these heads. It's unfortunate but that's just really the only thing we CAN do. What's really quite something is to realize the power this thing was making with essentially smog era compression, had it been built right the first time it would have absolutely out pulled the Pontiac in the Big Block Wars video. Should be very very interesting to see where it ends up with these Edelbrock heads!

[@garydavies5973]

@@LucoreAuto A big issue with cutting the heads that much (presuming 84cc heads) is manifold alignment, pain in the ass if you want to swap intakes. However, from what I have seen the BBM edelbrock heads and their intakes don't line up anyway. Keen to see your outcomes.

[@toverturf9097]

@@garydavies5973 The block can be decked also and there is a formula for milling the intake side of the head.

[@1dodgelover]

640?

[@karlsracing8422]

That intake will support 550hp

[@LucoreAuto]

I think the limit of both the heads and the intake now will be around 550hp, which is a LOT more than we initially intended to make out of this motor. But, we'll know soon!

[@dinadaughtry8993]

Not that aggressive for a big block Mopar, perfect for 1-6rocker ratio and Trick Flow 240 heads with a duel plane highrise intake manifold long tube headers and an850. CFM carburetor after disassembly of the short.block decking it and reassembly, you can only cut a set of heads so far plus straight decks go a long way to help valve train geometry so all the push rods will be sitting in the lifters the same amount

[@karlsracing8422]

210cfm x 2hp =420hp.

[@LucoreAuto]

Indeed. Which is what we expected. When the cast iron head tested WAY higher than that we were quite surprised, and annoyed.

[@noahmoore2907]

who originally built this engine?

[@LucoreAuto]

Joe Koban formerly of PRI

[@andrewjespersen656]

There used to be an Mopar Performance engine building book, that said about .500 was the limit on stock without out valve reliefs hence the old popular .509” left purple cam and that like said you the springs gave out and would bind around .550” lift, and the rule of thumb an old mopar family told was you needed a spring , and adjustable rocker and piston (valve reliefs) upgrade if you went to the 3 bolt cams from the single bolt cam, I dont think low compression really would. hurt the motor running like you said in the video , you just would have a good “boost” motor, i think stepping up the springs would get you your baseline in those stockheads,

[@darrenbrisson4336]

Hope bob doesn't get to stressed out know what I mean

[@red-doggracing5557]

Uncle Bob does Billy and the kids stuff also 406 sbc turbo 1500 hp

[@LucoreAuto]

Yes Sir that's how we got in touch with him is through our connection with SRC. He's been above and beyond awesome with this motor.

[@unclesquirrel6951]

Personally I blame squirrels

[@mpetersen6]

Those darned squirrels sure get around don't they

[@johnharrell9343]

And so the story continues. Sounds like the cause for loss of rpm and torque has been found. But soon, very soon, I can just hear that 451 makes some beautiful American Noise!!

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately there's a 3rd book in this saga but at least NOW we know exactly what was going on and why. And now we have a plan of attack and a solid bit of knowledge to work with. Just a few days and a few thousand dollars more parts and it's going from Phase 1 great to Phase 3 insane.

[@mpetersen6]

@@LucoreAuto The old saying is nothing beat displacement. Like most old sages it's only half right. In the end nothing beats cubic money.

[@marcevans64]

Ran into a similar problem on the first SBC i built in H.S. 😒 Too much cam, not enough compression and sh!tty heads 😣 It should really wake up after this! Im gonna guess 560hp 510ft lbs torque 🤘

[@LucoreAuto]

The Edelbrock heads flow I think somewhere in the 274 range so.... we'll see. We should jog right on past the 500hp number without trying to hard with proper compression and not smacking against our cam issues.

[@mickangio16]

I wish I could thumbs up more than one time. Haha.

[@randydeboer832]

with the amount of time in this motor already why not pull the short block apart and zero deck the block instead of cutting new heads to make the engine right? the way it should have been done the first time.

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately that would just add another big chunk of time and money to getting this motor done and in the car. Cutting the heads down isn't THAT big of a deal and should get us back in business. Lessons learned though, that's why we're sharing this entire experience with everyone.

[@randydeboer832]

@@LucoreAuto Ok But there is a real problem with the engine, at this point I think it would be a good idea to check every thing. The cam that is in the motor now is really not that big for a 450ci engine, with the heads off now would be the time to degree the cam just to make sure it is installed correctly. Have you put a vacuum gage on the motor to see what it is at idle?

[@mickangio16]

The cam specs look similar to the old .509" Chrysler/Racer Brown hydraulic cams. They were very popular and worked well in warmed up 440s with rear gear ratio. My buddy and I both ran bigger than that solid & hydraulic cams along with adjustable iron 1.5 ratio rockers and shifted 6800 rpm. I won't forget the time I let one of my buddies drive my '64 Polara 500 and told him to watch the dash-top mounted Stewart Warner tach and and the next thing I know the tach is reading 72 or 7300 rpm and I'm screaming SHIFT!!! It didn't skip a beat, though. The 440 had a Crane hydraulic flat tappet cam at that time. I'm pretty sure it was SSH-330-NC if I remember correctly. I don't remember if it was mentioned what rear gear ratio Ms. Bell's Charger has but I was very happy how 284 Purple Shaft ran in my '70 GTX with 3.23 gears and the 340/383 11" torque convertor although many people would consider that cam too big for the application. It's all in the tuneup- idle feed restrictions and shortened/quickened distributor advance.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mickangio16 we are really looking forward to this thing running correctly finally, especially now that there's a whole new pile of upgrades going into thr motor. Kind of skipping over phase 1 going straight to phase 3. But it'll certainly be one hell of a machine now! Gearing is still up in the air at this point because that's probably next on the "To-Do" list. Currently there's an 8 1/4 out back which will NOT survive this new motor. We'll see what the power band on this monster looks like and figure out some gearing from there. Keep in mind this is more a cruiser than a drag car so don't think we're looking to go anything TOO radical! 😉... famous last words I guess.

[@mickangio16]

Wow. You replied quick. Cool. I know your intentions are cruiser oriented more than drag car. That's why I brought up my 3.23 geared GTX. The .509 Purple cam was pretty much considered the next step up from the 284 Purple in the old Direct Connection/Mopar Performance days so I mentioned that just to give an idea of what kind of gear ratio/torque convertor you could get away with. I know that modern cams make more low end power than old cams but I don't care for them because I think that the aggressive profiles may be a big part of the flat tappet cam failures and they makes the valvetrain so noisy. I'm playing with a 302 Ford right now with a modern flat tappet hydraulic cam- Lunati .560/.540 lift. It is real strong off idle and pulls hard to 6500 rpm and then the power just stops. I like the rpm to carry out a bit after peak especially with stick shift. Between the aggressive hydraulic cam and roller rockers the valvetrain is very noisy. I think part of that issue may be that hydraulic lifters are crap now(?) and that the valvetrain is just hard to control at high rpm levels with the quick profiles. I thought all along that you could have reached your goals with your existing cylinder heads even with low compression. Just make sure to get your total timing in as quick as possible- around 38°. Good luck. Make us proud.

[@johndillinger8482]

expensive lessons learned here. chuck that thing in the back of the shop and pick up a crate motor.

[@LucoreAuto]

Very expensive lessons learned. But at the end of the day, now we know what is going on and why. Just a few more days and we'll hopefully have a much more positive and enjoyable experience to share.

[@jcnpresser]

Not to bad hp for so low of compression. I’d say it should make 100 more hps. That’s my guess.

[@LucoreAuto]

We're right in line with you, once it has the compression it needs and can support the lift we are guessing somewhere in the 520hp range. Hopefully we'll know soon!

[@bobgill396]

advance the cam 4 degrees zero deck the block and cut the heads and you will be in the 500hp range.

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately decking the block AGAIN would have meant tearing the entire bottom end back down and starting over again. That just wasn't in the cards at this point. There's definitely power left on the table with this thing though and we'll see what we can find once it's on the chassis dyno in the car

[@jhutch1470]

This series was so painful to watch.

[@LucoreAuto]

Making the best of a bad situation

[@totensiebush]

I wouldn't expect power plateau to be valve float - I'm used to seeing that drop off hard, rather than just stop increasing. I'm glad you figured out that it seems to be the intake/heads/cam. Could you not get gaskets enough thinner to get to the compression numbers you wanted, rather than milling? Any idea when the next video will be out?

[@grngs1]

.542 IS NOT a lot of lift

[@jasonbowles539]

There a reason you don't have the hyperspark ignition so sniper can control all that?

[@LucoreAuto]

Complicated answer to that question but roughly speaking in order to let the old dyno where the motor was originally built an MSD ProBillet was chosen.

[@rodneybyrd9516]

Hoping for an answer to the issue and smooth revving!!! B strokers act like a 440 on steroids!! The heads/intake flow theory still doesn't add up, IMO. I have read where aggressive cam lobes and high rocker ratios can cause "lifter crash," whatever that is. The Eddy heads are going to unlock some serious horsepower for sure.. :)

[@LucoreAuto]

We kind of always knew that just bolting on better heads would fix our issues and give us a ton more power, but we wanted to know WHY. That's why we went through the headache/heartache of doing this and film it for everyone everyone see and learn along with. We're definitely going to see a HUGE increase in power with the extra 1000+ RPM, a better flowing intake, better flowing heads, etc

[@67VentWindow]

I hate getting into a engine and finding things arnt what they were suppose to be. You said your shaving the heads, What head gasket thickness are you using for the E-heads?

[@Mynextproject_74]

So then this was all selected by your former engine builder? How much better could all those other big blocks be with better component selections? I feel for you on this!

[@dionrau5580]

So it's normal for fuel to be puddleing on the throttle blades with the sniper set up? No mystery how it's running rich, IMHO...

[@LucoreAuto]

It's definitely not fully sorted out at idle yet that's for SURE

[@mpetersen6]

Maybe you guys could hook up with Richard Holdener. He's been doing a bunch of "other guys" stuff. What could be more "other guy" than a 304 😉

[@LucoreAuto]

Lol Richard and I have talked about a few different projects, unfortunately he's on the entirely other side of the country from us :(

[@TRENDewyZ]

Call B3R, get the kit, order some real pushrods, and watch it rev. I guarantee the heads are not your problem.

[@petehoffman5781]

I think you guys are brking up the wrong tree and either have ignition issues or valve float issues. I have built many motors with that cam and factory heads that run well up into 6000rpm no problem. If anything, you should not be using a dual plane intake with your FI set up... Keep digging guys because that motor should be close to the 500hp range all day long with the iron heads.

[@chriswilliams1688]

What is the operating rpm range of the camshaft? I am guessing somewhere in the 2500 to 6500 or 3000 to 7000 rpm range

[@LucoreAuto]

You are correct, it's designed to make power in those ranges, unfortunately that's also how we have the converter spec'd out. Once it's all working right and in the car, we'll just cross our fingers and hope for the best. We are also going to start getting dangerously close to the end of where this EFI setup and transmission are rated. Cross your fingers for us and stay tuned for the update after machining and reassembly, that SHOULD be some time next week as long as things go smoothly.

[@toverturf9097]

@@LucoreAuto Judging by the video of the guy that built the engine in the first place I think your overly hopeful. The cam should be done around 5300 if you don't have problems with the rocker ratio.

[@yugotime1598]

Who chose to use those iron heads? *edit* Nevermind, some random builder lol. Also, slam a turbo on it to make up for that compression.

[@LucoreAuto]

It was actually done for the purpose of making our Big Block Wars video, we wanted to compare similar displacements across several different brands to see how they panned out. Unfortunately for us this wasn't just some "random builder" this was someone we had trusted with several motors in the past and tens of thousands of dollars worth of work. For whatever reason he decided to be a bit less thorough on this build and we've been paying the price for it. It was also the issue that ended our relationship with that specific engine builder. With a turbo on this thing it would EASILY be well beyond what the transmission and rear end in the car could take. We don't need a 700hp big block Mopar in her cruiser! ;)

[@chrisgable4242]

Or bad distributor

[@toverturf9097]

Next time take your mopar to someone that knows mopars, you guys are putting out so much miss information on mopar heads its crazy. It sounds like your original engine builder didn't know mopars either....

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately the initial engine builder certainly wasn't well versed in classic Mopar building. Please feel free to educated us on anything we've mis-stated in these videos. We always appreciate knowledge

[@douglascooper1987]

Thank You.👍👍

[@toverturf9097]

I just watched the video of the first guy dynoing this clusterfuck. He didn't even have a drive on the water pump. What a moron and he is the guy that built it. I don't think the guy that had him build the motor has a clue either.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@toverturf9097 thanks for going back and watching it, appreciate the view. The previous dyno setup uses a dyno cell water pump to circulate water, so it doesn't need to drive the waterpump 😉

[@toverturf9097]

@@LucoreAuto I have to ask why put the 1.6 rockers on if you ordered a custom cam and why not go with an off the shelf cam? Do you know more than comp?

[@mpetersen6]

In the not too distant future I forsee that cam choice will be a thing of the past provided you've got the scratch. I expect to see a Free Valve aftermarket technology at some point.

[@brandona4618]

Ad to do the same sciencing few years ago with fords PI heads vs trickflow. Pi heads flowed better than the trickflows but the tricks had better quenching characteristics. Long story short we threw the tricktrash away and ported the PI heads. Estimated about 13k saved from having to switch the whole setup since PI anything will NOT work with trickflow anything. What made it worse is trickflow STILL has some stupid Fuck still selling PI cams with their head packages. Which if it does run will run like shit. Cuz the valves are in different places. And the cam profiles are different. Always science your setups

[@grngs1]

ITS RPM NOT PLURAL...... RPM;S

[@HoosierRooster]

poor combination

[@Stevesbe]

Mopar slowcar

[@LucoreAuto]

Should be a pretty solid street car. This isn't a racecar motor

[@cameronmackenzie4410]

Mopar than yocar!

[@cameronmackenzie4410]

Move Over Pinto Approaching Rapidly

[@chrisprice4420]

You guys just continue to make videos using the same junk heads that have Proven themselves to be incapable of pulling enough air to get the proper air/fuel mix will never happen. Hoping you get a better outcome from the same mistake will give you the same reading. The system you have in place has to learn all over again once you drop those Edelbrock heads on the engine. So stop wasting our time waiting for a miracle to happen with those junk heads. Or maybe I should unsubscribe until next year when y'all decide to try the Edelbrocks.

[@bikinicarwash6320]

omg :( i feel so bad for all of you :(

[@LucoreAuto]

Hard to put in to words how frustrating this has been

[@chrisgable4242]

Or bad distributor