Lucy Letby: Can You Be Born Evil? | Loose Women

Yesterday, it was announced that former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby would be sentenced to life in prison for the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six more at the Countess of Chester Hospital. After Letby’s former colleagues insisted that CCTV surveillance was installed on the neonatal ward, when it was rumoured she might return to her position after an initial suspension, we are asking - should all hospitals have CCTV, in order to protect their patients? Another question that has arisen from the trial is whether Letby was ‘born evil’, due to the seemingly pleasant, nurturing nature she presented to colleagues and families in her role at the hospital. Gloria doesn’t believe that people are born evil, but they can turn out to be and it’s hard to determine the factors that contribute to this chilling change.
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From Series 27, broadcast on: 22/08/2023
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[@shirleystein6521]

If I were a nurse, I would have absolutely no problem with CCTV.

[@TomCoppell]

CCTV should be everywhere even in care homes where abuse is taken place. Even as a patient I wouldn’t have a problem

[@shirleystein6521]

Me too. @@TomCoppell

[@Niki-mp8qe]

I work in community care and some family members have it installed, it's a good thing, protects their family and the staff from false accusations and it sure gets rid of the ones that don't want to do their job properly knowing they can't just walk in and walk back out, should be enforced

[@Maya-lh7wu]

I’m a nurse and would prefer cameras to be installed to cover everyone’s back. we have cctv all over the country, why not in hospitals

[@peterwilliamskelhorn6675]

​@@TomCoppellof course it should.

[@ameliawatts7751]

Yes, absolutely they should have cctv in all departments, and care homes. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with it unless they have something to hide.

[@twobrokeguyz1214]

I'd really hate to have a camera on me while a catheder was being put in... but yeah, I see your point at the same time.

[@keliusher-holmes2165]

I work in care and been asking for more cameras. I totally agree.

[@Fireglo]

Isn't having something to hide your right though? Yaknow privacy? Say you're a crossdresser, that's not illegal but it's something you probably wouldn't want the whole world to know. Do you not have the right to have that as something to hide?

[@victoriawalsh11]

I have cctv in my work and two staff at all times on shift

[@wickedwitchoftheeast88]

​@@Fireglohonestly you forget the cameras are there. I worked in the social services sector and we had cameras everywhere except for bathrooms. We worked with some extremely vulnerable people including newborn babies who could have potentially been at risk of abuse CCTV protects the staff from false allegations and vulnerable people from being abused. History has taught us that abusers go into jobs where they can access people to abuse and who cannot speak up or won't be believed cameras don't lie.

[@Gavin48]

Yep I believe you can be born without empathy. We live in a very messed up World

[@wayasaunooke3424]

Technically EVERYONE is born without empathy. It is one of the only taught and learnt emotions and if it's missing in an adult then the family (primarily mother figure) is responsible for the lacking of it.

[@Niki-mp8qe]

We are all born without empathy, that's where nuture comes in, if basic needs aren't met then things can go wrong

[@AR_112]

Her parents devotion to her shows that she had more than enough nurturing to develop empathy. So I would argue the opposite. She was born without it. In that sense perhaps it is some genetic predisposition where is she missing a gene or something

[@Niki-mp8qe]

@@AR_112 plausible, still much to learn about the brain, on the other hand her parents may be acting the part to save their own skins, I have seen families where narcissism and other disorders are apparent throughout the family line, learnt behaviour ultimately

[@acb5245]

HG Tudors Channel makes a brilliant assesment of her characther. He is establishing what she is.

[@minnowes]

I am shocked there weren't CCTV cameras to begin with. These are very young and fragile children who need protection at all costs.

[@user-kb8qw7dy4t]

"At all costs" is the issue. CCTV is quite expensive, and hospitals are certainly not going to spare the expense to everyone's medical bill. Or, the "free" health care system isn't going to spare the taxpayer. People tend to get so (understandably) emotional over the drama in cases such as this that they forget it's all about money at the end of the day.

[@minnowes]

@@user-kb8qw7dy4t Cost is a poor excuse when compared to life.

[@user-kb8qw7dy4t]

@@minnowes That's a lovely sentiment that most people would agree with, but not with their wallets.

[@minnowes]

@@user-kb8qw7dy4t Well the NHS is already apparently inefficient & wasteful and the voters seem to put up with it. More to the point however I cannot imagine any UK taxpayer being opposed to such a change to neo-natal wards after the tragedies caused by Lucy Letby.

[@diamonddeliliah123]

Some parents don’t want their kids being recorded because they worry the footage would get into the wrongs

[@Bailey2006a]

“ Deliver us from Evil”… yes, evil does exist and this nurse is evil incarnate.

[@MM-qg5xh]

It's called psychopathy. that's the scientific name for evil

[@IchaelGill]

Evil was not in Lucy from the start as to when she went into nursing as to what made her into the killer she went onto become only she knows

[@Jim-so3zm]

She is Satan personified

[@IchaelGill]

@@amytiffanyhemingway not true. Get your facts right

[@IchaelGill]

@@amytiffanyhemingway you're bonkers

[@RA-wp6th]

I think it’s a combination of environmental and intrinsic factors. For example, a person could be born with certain traits that makes them more susceptible these types of behaviour.

[@diaryofanotdgirl89]

I work in a mental health hospital and there’s CCTV all over the hospital except for the actual patient’s bedrooms. All communal areas are videoed and if anything happened in a bedroom there’s audio that will be picked up but not visual footage

[@irelandgp]

Should be cameras the parents can watch the babies from home

[@user-df4kn8uk8r]

CCTV should be definitely be in baby units there’s no question about it. It would of definitely prevented letby and those babies would of been here today

[@PeaceMatters5]

Yes and then the whistle-blowers would have more leverage as there'd be visual evidence.

[@user-by9gx2yf9g]

Rip 🙏 all babies and my heart goes to family's aswell 😢

[@MrAllysonn]

Psychology evaluation and CCTV should be mandatory.

[@rebeccagabele3823]

As a retired nurse, this disturbs me. It takes A special nurse to work NICU.....I did not.....but I worked ICU. Hospital work is intensive. I thought all NICU'S had cameras. That's disturbing also

[@turquoiseblue228]

She is probably innocent. No hard evidence. Google Science on Trial.

[@SoldUrSoul24982]

​@@turquoiseblue228Thanks. I shall. I suspect Lucy is being used as a scapegoat for hospital failings, do you?

[@turquoiseblue228]

​@@SoldUrSoul24982Yes totally. And to cover the doctors arses.

[@SoldUrSoul24982]

@@turquoiseblue228 I cannot see your first comment now. It is You tube fault, it's hiding. Can you paste it to me please?

[@brianjang2509]

Nobody is born evil, its the environment where people grow up that shape them into what they are

[@Zoecoatesxo]

I think no nurse/doctor should ever be left alone with a patient, for their safety as well as the patient’s. It will protect against any false allegations and hopefully anything as tragic as what Letby did.

[@montananerd8244]

Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough medical professionals for that. Even in the US, where MDs and RNs make very good money, there aren't enough.

[@Fireglo]

That's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion not to mention extremely disrespectful. It was doctors and nurses that pushed for her to be charged. The upper management who aren't doctors were the problem. They silenced the doctors and nurses who spoke out. Why are people in the U.K. so hysterically reactionary to everything? A once in a million case happens therefore every doctor should be treated as a suspected killer? Why must they suffer because of her?

[@Zoecoatesxo]

Lucy herself was a nurse and was left alone with the patients, who she in turn killed. Had she not been alone, those babies would likely still be alive. But as I said in the original comment, it's not just about murders, false allegations as well. I work in a nursery and we always try to have at least 2 staff in a room, even with only one child, just as an extra witness if anything were to happen or be suspected.

[@Fireglo]

@@Zoecoatesxo but it's ridiculous to say one nurse in every multi million kills a patient therefore they can never be alone with a patient under any circumstances. That's just being hysterical. 99.99% of doctors and nurses are good people that save lives every day. Treating them all with suspicion of being cold blooded killers is ridiculous and not something we should be doing. Not to mention extremely unpractical. A patient collapses. "Sorry I have to wait for a colleague to get here before I can enter the room to assist". What are you expecting? Every 2 nurses having to be handcuffed together so there's 0 possibility a nurse could be in presence of a patient as a single entity?

[@josephprendergast2]

What about patients in doctor surgery rooms?

[@AnimatedBlast]

There are much more evil people out there. We already know this type of evil exists.

[@markgreet3543]

But its better to be a good person in life, and have no evil inside,we can all be selfish towards others, but she is a very evil person doing seven life sentences proves the serious nature if the crime she did, and all the pain she caused them familys, but sadly do gooders out there don't seem to agree which shocks me.

[@mehboobsumar6532]

Letby is so very much lucky even after an entire life span tariff ! No ones thinking about how much she is going to cost the Prison System per day !

[@martinranalli8572]

They should install CCTV now because of this terrible situation.

[@shaztaf]

I think she had an undeniable hatred for the families and was extremely jealous of them. Maybe she couldn't have children herself. Maybe she had a series of failed relationships and was losing hope of becoming a mother and experiencing family life herself. For her to see a close, happy family with their little one, secretly made her angry and made her blood boil. She wanted others to feel pain and go through inner turmoil. She expresses some of her thoughts and feelings on paper. She hated herself, but knowing that others were suffering gave her some peace in some warped kind of way. I doubt we will ever know the true reason why she did what she did. Only Lucy Letby holds the answers to this.

[@nwr7932]

She was only 27. Not jealousy but her desire to be noticed by the doctor she was having affair with made her kill children…..the doc would come to her aid when the babies were attacked.

[@Imagineering100]

Yes, my thinking too I want to know why if we can find out why then maybe it can help in the future. Will she be psychoanalyzed to help understand. RIP all those babies my heart goes out to all the parents.

[@IchaelGill]

Don't be silly

[@IchaelGill]

You can all come with way Lucy did what she did but you will never know why.

[@trishb5738]

I'm a woman who cannot have children and tried ivf several times with no success. I have been a child minder snd never felt amy jealousy whatsoever. Only reason she did it was because she is a cold blooded murderer.

[@racheljames7]

Its not just about the staff. Why should patients' privacy be invaded because the people who run hospitals allowed a lunatic murderer to run wild.

[@Niki-ly5kb]

I think in a case of abuse surely you would be thankful for it, either yourself or a loved one being the victim, I think really no one should ever be lone working in health and social care or childcare

[@robertlepper5460]

The views of the patient are important. I think were I to be a patient it is outlandish

[@lone8869]

There are cameras at every point in my workplace, the only place there isn't is the toilet and some points in the staff room and that is just an office and a reception area.

[@Charl250]

Well Good Luck for her in prison that's all I'm saying. She will most likely regret of doing what she did because she won't be welcome with open arms. She will have a very hard time in prison! So Karma will be served!

[@RA-wp6th]

You’d like to hope so but the type of people there are murderers themselves.

[@antpoo71]

GOOD

[@magical_universe793]

She most likely will be segregated as she should be she should not be punished as disgusting parents can make another baby everyday she can not and if she could not with the man she loved all the more reasons to do this

[@minnowes]

​@magical_universe793 Is that a sentence in English? Very difficult to read.

[@Charl250]

@magical_universe793 So are equally blaming the parents who obviously wanted a baby to join their family but some other human decided to rip that away from their parents. The parents of those kids didn't expect a "Nurse" who decide to commit murder on poor innocent people😐 Killing 7 kids is absolutely awful and injuring X amount of others. R.I.P for whole of those kids who died

[@Niki-mp8qe]

Cctv should be in all health and social care settings, schools to, only way when people high up are more worried about reputation or their jobs, its awful

[@lizmackey6865]

Forgiveness does not let anyone off the hook... it sets your own soul free.... what happened here was undoubtedly despicable....

[@mrbritisher9748]

How many CCTV cameras have we got in this country......... it can't be the answer everytime something terrible happens.

[@jensee2691]

No one is born evil. The environment needs to be reviewed. Parents don't like to accept that sometimes they need to be responsible for whatever the child experienced negatively

[@violinstar5948]

CCTV is a must. It's obvious we cannot trust the NHS to care for babies

[@lynsaylaird2829]

It would be interesting to hear from her parents. Hopefully now she has life in prison she admits her guilt and explains why she did this. Unsure why she left the post it's in her house when she knew she was under surveillance

[@lynsaylaird2829]

@danswhite8544 I don't know as I'm not one but there will be a reason. Her post it said it was because she didn't feel worthy of looking after them. Regardless of what ever the warped reasoning is hopefully she will be interviewed at some stage in the future

[@RA-wp6th]

@@lynsaylaird2829 It’s probably best for us to accept that she’s evil and leave it at that, because her answer will never make sense. If she didn’t feel worthy to look after children she should have looked for another job.

[@rhiannonjohnson-rw3qh]

May be she wanted to get caught because she couldn't stop

[@aimeewhelan9897]

@@lynsaylaird2829why would anyone give her airtime, she’s absolutely evil and disgusting and just pure evil !

[@paulroberts7544]

A lot of experts/professionals are saying it's a misscarriage of justice. The evidence was all conjecture and circumstantial, and they think she was framed for something she quite probably didn't do. There isn't any proof that any baby was murdered apparently.

[@LumpOfClay1]

You've got to feel for HER parents too! She's made victims of them too! But I think they are the forgotten victims. What this woman did was incomprehensible!

[@IchaelGill]

😹

[@flickiow24]

​@@IchaelGillsober up

[@IchaelGill]

I hadn't had a drink so get a life.

[@IchaelGill]

@@flickiow24 speak for yourself

[@Teddybeardb85]

Nah they are not real victims. The babies that she killed couldn’t defend themselves . No sympathy on the killer or her family. None whatsoever.

[@alisonharte76]

I work as a hca looking after children and have no problem with cctv. ❤ if it protects little ones x

[@drrd4127]

Computers are the answer, I worked on the ward where we had to get all our medications dispensed by a computer and it had the patients name and all their medication doage, the comouter only allow me access to the dosage on the medication chart, I couldn't get any extra doses without a second nurse approval and two nurses signing the medication chart. We also had smart phones and we scaned the patients wrist band, it tracked the mediction patient needed and the medication they had so it was hard to make a mistkae or get extra doses with the computer system. This was not in the UK but not all hospitals have this system some hospitals say they fefuse because it is too expensive but all hospitals should be computerised. Some medications you can't give without two people loging into the computer. I agree with CCTV in the corridors, drug room, nurses station which many hospitals already have but in areas where patients get naked is pushing it a bit

[@user-nw3xc2tk6y]

When I gave birth coming up for 16 years ago now - I was told by my community midwife (with a life time of experience - maybe 45 yrs?) not to let the baby out of my sight in hospital, not even for a quick 2 minute shower, make sure dad is around to help so one of you is always with the baby. It's only now I really get this. Perhaps it should be hospital policy that a parent never leaves the baby's side?

[@JessMurgatroyd]

Sadly these babies gave had to stay in for months. Mine never left my side in hospital. Her dad was there when i went for a shower. Well inhsd to grab my food and a nurse looked after my baby. She stood at door though.

[@user-nw3xc2tk6y]

Imagine if you asked anyone of the parents this would be their deepest regret, that one of them never stayed fixed by the baby's side, however long they were there. It's terrible that a mother can not leave her baby with a nurse but it seems this is the sad state in which we live. If it's not a killer nurse then there is plenty of incompetancy to try and avoid too @@JessMurgatroyd

[@AD-mh4zy]

A baby was taken from a hospital back in the 90's by a Mother who lost her baby that's why alarms are fitted to the cots and you are given a key It maybe to do with that

[@Vlad-vh4zk]

The idea of installing cctv is silly. Doctors had already identified Letby as problematic after the first 3 murders, 8 years ago. It was still them that demanded she should be removed from the unit eventually. The nurses also understood something was off from VERY early on. Basically the entire unit knew without the need of CCTV. The problem here is the higher management. They seem very detached. Far removed from what's going on on the ground.

[@fionakiely3505]

It's not silly at all as it would be a deterrent.

[@zazita7333]

3 children murdered is 3 child murders too many, install CCTV immediately to protect these highly vulnerable little beings.

[@AmyWinehouse.914]

I was amazed to find out CCTV wasn't on kids wards anyway.

[@jjay0307]

I totally agree, cctv where the babies are should have been done a very long time ago. how anyone could kill something so innocent is beyond a vile monster, she should have been sentenced to death, they definitely need the death penalty for these types of people.

[@sashamaezoekeenopalma228]

I will agree with CCTVs. this is not just for the nurses and other staff but I think for abusive patients as well

[@danfrost3043]

Yes you can be born Evil. Sometimes it shows itself early on and other times it comes out when you're older but I definitely believe a person can be born Evil. I've come across a few over the years.

[@IchaelGill]

Stop banging on

[@Annsunshine30]

Although both biological and environmental factors play a role in the development of psychopathy and sociopathy, it is generally agreed that psychopathy is chiefly a genetic or inherited condition, notably related to the underdevelopment of parts of the brain responsible for emotional regulation and impulse control.

[@IchaelGill]

My firm believe is that Lucy Letby was not born evil nor did she go into nursing with any intent to harm a child or any such number. It is of my option at a later stage of her nursing career that something in her mind changed her to become the killer as to what she became.

[@Haberdashery22]

​​@@IchaelGillGo and read something somewhere else if you have no interest in the opinions of others on here, mate.

[@IchaelGill]

🙀

[@ebonyeyes1986]

People saying yes to cctv but problem is in hospitals u can just draw curtains and u need to have privacy

[@lizmackey6865]

True

[@ktryushi4744]

No, you can’t born as a evil person. If people become evil they choose their own actions, it can be bad trauma issues etc. Evil is not born, they’re made by life experience. Look at villain background story in the movies. They were good once because of betray, environmental issues they become an villain. Even psychopaths aren’t that evil that media portray them. To become evil, it needs to be severe trauma, a trigger response that you snap. People need to educate more about this topic…..All serial killers came from abusive environmental issues. Read a book people…..

[@ortheeimpossible3387]

No one born evil but while growing and maturity you develop this concept through evil actions and thoughts especially around the environment you latched unto Starting with your family

[@jacksoncrate]

monsters make monsters

[@RC-gh7os]

The media around this case is ridiculous and almost as disturbing as the case itself. Babies have died tragically and the media plunders it like vultures. Just stop.

[@Me-hs4jj]

What makes you different by commenting on it here?

[@RC-gh7os]

@@Me-hs4jj Thanks for your reply, I think there is a distinguishable difference between reporting and commenting, namely one is done to generate money from sensationalism.

[@DancingAmaya]

​@@RC-gh7osrefreshing to see a polite, non confrontational reply on KZbin for once.

[@Me-hs4jj]

@@RC-gh7os But if nobody commented or showed interest then it wouldn’t be news. The attention surrounding it would die down quicker. I wasn’t accusing you of anything, but everyone (at different levels, ie; mere faceless commenters like us, to those making money and gaining headway in their careers), all have a part to play. I just found a hint of irony in a person commenting on something that they feel is being exploited.

[@DancingAmaya]

@@Me-hs4jjand the irony of you making such a comment is lost on no one 😁 God love ya.

[@flyinghigh2701]

There are plenty of people born psychopathic, ie lacking the ability to empathise, who go on to become successful accountants and engineers without killing anyone. The idea of someone being born evil is irrelevant, its how you choose to live that counts.

[@theresea.k5749]

I hope she gets what she deserves in prison.

[@mayadaniels91]

I don’t think she can explain it. It’s as if she is demon possessed. Not to give her an excuse but most serial killers have a personal benefit. What was hers? Killing random people’s newborns. Why?

[@Haberdashery22]

Was she an indulged and spoilt child? Got away with lying, bossing, manipulating her parents, poor behaviour etc., when she was little maybe and was brought up to believe she was the most adorable child ever to be born? Always the focus of her parent's attention? I'd say she's narcissistic at the very least.

[@Lauren-dx2hh]

When the woman said the hospital turned a blind eye to signs of Lucy murdering the baby's because they didn't want there reputation ruining thats evil with in its self and those people should go to prison aswell as Lucy because there just as responsibile as her for not stopping her sooner , and also there hospital is all over the news and Internet now , they should of spoken out sooner and stopped her sooner , I feel so sorry for the poor parents , tragic so sad , imagine the damage its done to the parents , thankgod Lucy letbys been stopped before she carried on killing others

[@thebonnieforwardshow3461]

Absolutely.

[@marsvsvenus6256]

People always seem normal on the outside and that goes the same for both parents and the children. My father is a retired psychiatric social worker. My brother is mentally ill with violent tendencies. My father encourages my brother in be violent towards me. My father witnesses his aunt being locked into a basement. He makes false reports that I am abusing my brother to "justify" his violence towards me. And the St. Anns Psychiatric Hospital's Medical Director does not want to explain why her staff does not at least ensure that my brother is medicated. There are rumours that drugs are stolen by staff and not given to the patients. This is Trinidad and Tobago. The people who cover up things like this look normal. All the doctors who covered for her look normal. Just like my biological dad and the medical director.

[@IchaelGill]

You are funny

[@daviddelara7158]

I don’t believe anyone is born evil - circumstances make you the way you are - what she did is disgusting but to say someone is BORN evil is disgusting as well

[@IchaelGill]

Well said and I agree

[@ashleytravel5829]

Every country, state and territory worldwide should have CCTV by law! It should be a global cooperation.

[@Lois14x]

Cctv in baby units just not in maternity wards. As I know I definitely don't want anyone watching me give birth ha

[@terrydavis5501]

No-one is born evil. But we have moral choice and some choose to become evil.

[@newshound2521]

yes

[@josephprendergast2]

Taking away any form of life is unspeakable because that individual has a family and friends that love them and your act of violence no matter what the reason has not only destroyed their life but so many others too! Actions will always have consequences!

[@Claudefather]

It will be left to her inmates to deliver the correct judgement

[@frenchprovincial9602]

If a person murders anyone and it's proven without doubt. I believe they should be given the death penalty. No rehabilitation just lets have a safe world for everyone. Does anyone agree with me.

[@bea1365]

Then they will have to investigate every other hospital dept where Doctors DNAR individuals without their consent and without a mental capacity assessment. Or those Doctors who put people Nil By Mouth who are not end of life and Nurses who follow those unlawful instructions. It's rife within the NHS, these hospitals are killing people every day and it's no accident. How about the Nurse whose husband was admitted to hospital with Pneumonia and because he wasn't jabbed they sedated him after he tried to leave 5 times. Drugged him so badly he couldn't defend himself. Wouldn't let her see him because of "the virus" and then put him on Nil By Mouth when his stats became low because of all of the sedation they were pumping into him. She got all of the hospital notes and evidence and the Coroner and Police refused to investigate. Criminal. So when they show you a case like this and make a big thing of it, as tragic as it is that babies have died (no autopsies done), you have to ask, "what are the Government trying to gain from this". Because they definitely don't care about us.

[@simonperring2546]

Very harrowing video - of course we need CCTV in every neonatal unit, and everywhere in the NHS Hospital system where there are vulnerable patients like babies that can’t speak up for themselves. Also we do need NHS managers to come under the same medical codes of conduct and accountability that doctors and nurses have - currently they have none. In fact the management covered up for Lucy Letby when she was murdering babies, having a very likely affair with a married registrar with no thought of his wife or children, removing medical records to be illegally stashed at her home, and stalking grieving families on Facebook on the anniversary of their babies deaths. Lucy Letby has correctly summed herself up in her own words as “I AM EVIL I DID THIS” - a truly evil woman. So soon after the nurse Beverley Allitt murders of babies, there needs to be a full judicial public enquiry and police investigation so these horrible crimes never happen again...😢

[@tomsadler5976]

I dont give much for her chances in the nick.

[@zzzbbbooo]

She will be in protective custody, I'm sure.

[@gordanazakula5669]

​​@@zzzbbboooPrison owes IT a duty of care!!! If IT was to commit suicide, or get hurt, prison would be held accountable. The screws can find underhand ways to hurt IT!!! PS, Could there be a miscarriage of justice? Please reply to me.

[@gordanazakula5669]

5976 IT not "her"!!!

[@penco-penco]

Place cameras on all Nurses units and sounds

[@Haberdashery22]

Oh and I'd love to know if she had pets and if so, how did she treat them?

[@Grelotmystiqueetal]

Invasion of privacy? The access to those videos would be limited.

[@SladeL]

Perhaps CCTV could have saved Lucy from false accusations. Think about it. There was a huge increase in unexplainable deaths, while Lucy was convicted for a minority of them. What caused the other deaths? If they were natural, what caused the spike in them? So much does not make sense, this is only one of those things.

[@francishooper9548]

Interestingly the rate of stillbirths at this hospital was the 5th highest in the UK and they had a very high rate of infections in the stroke ward and now face a fine for failing to report. There is no evidence against Letby and in fact the Royal College of Paediatricians and Childrens Health praised Letby for the high quality of care and professionalism in 2016. The management didn't act because there was no evidence and of course there still isn't.

[@yacovlk7924]

You would have to firstly prove evil existed before answering this question.

[@darrenlovatt4239]

Details of all deaths and unexpected, unexplained or suspicious occurrences throughout the medical profession should be recorded in a national database, along with the names of those on duty at the time. A relatively simple computer algorithm would identify the kind of pattern we see in this case (whereby Letby was present for every single death/incident ) likely much sooner than the suspicions of co-workers were aroused and/or acted upon. This system would also flag up death/incident rates that were significantly higher than the norm, and have the added benefit of effectively tracking medical workers across different medical establishments. As soon as pre-determined threshold is reached, this should trigger an immediate, independent investigation. This method would reduce the dependency on co-workers to notice and subsequently air their suspicions, and take the decision to investigate out of the hands of executives. It should be a legal obligation to supply all this information. Had such a system been in place years ago, Harold Shipman's crimes would have been discovered much, much earlier.

[@francishooper9548]

One problem you might encounter is that Letby was present for less than half of the incidents on this ward. One possible benefit in this case is that the medical negligence that Lucy and the other nurses complained about might have been picked up.

[@darrenlovatt4239]

@@francishooper9548 It wouldn't be a problem at all. My suggestion is all about using technology to identify patterns that would lead to independent investigation. For example, if a person were present for only a third of such incidents, but the algorithm deemed that figure to be high, then the investigation would be automatically triggered. It's not about finding someone guilty or innocent, merely an autonomous mechanism to flag up potential issues.

[@irelandgp]

CCTV for sure

[@outsidersongs2682]

One odd thing is that after she came under suspicion, the attacks escalated. Even if management were protecting her, she still had the suspicious eye of colleagues on her and as a histrionic person you'd expect that to effect her. If she was innocent she would have been terrified to look after babies, except to prove they were safe. An innocent person would be terrified that any baby under their care might deteriorate or die. But the attacks escalated and she wasn't attacking them in order to save them to 'prove' herself to be a good nurse after all. The babies were being murdered. And she did have a conscience. Her frenetic notes show that. They show guilt, self recrimination, empathy for her parents.... I think she had a fascination with sadism and with exploring her own evil, her own inner darkness. She found that she enjoyed it, found it satisfying. In no way were the murders and attacks her parents fault. They sound like lovely parents. Only Letby herself was responsible for the deaths (and management, partly). But clearly she felt suffocated, also by their belief that she was a perfect person. She likely battled having to be that perfect person, to please them, with being secretly imperfect. She attempted the facade of perfection with everyone I think while also becoming fixated with how horrible she might be. She began to enjoy being secretly horrible. Perhaps the attacks escalated because she could take no more of the pressure of keeping up the facade of being perfect. She wrote the note and escalated because she was ready to destroy 'perfect Lucy' forever. Clearly she hated herself to an extreme. But there was real sadism - a fixation with the pain of others - the agony of grieving parents attracted her like a moth to a lamp. Sadism requires empathy - the ability to understand and feel what another person is thinking and feeling, but its a dark empathy, where pleasure is ignited instead of compassion. Its a common error to assume that sadists cannot empathise or that empathy always indicates compassion. Empathy can be a dark tool in the wrong hands. And to choose sadistic murders of babies as a means to liberate herself means there was some personality disorders involved. I would guess histrionic disorder combined with sadism. She probably doesnt fit any disorder in the DSM.

[@twobrokeguyz1214]

I do think some people were born evil. That's just my opinion.

[@silver4831]

Evil is a religious word. But people can be born with psychopathic tendencies.

[@twobrokeguyz1214]

@@silver4831 That's evil to me. I don't care that it's a religious word. It works. How about the word 'wicked', maybe that's not so religious. Also, it’s what Lucy called herself. Do you think she was religious?

[@silver4831]

@@twobrokeguyz1214 I think it's wrong to ignore MH and just wave it away with terms like evil. Literally comments saying she didn't do it and it was a "devil" inside her, it's anti science nonsense. She may have been? Who knows.

[@sistagalsistagal8136]

I can't talk about genetic coding, but there is enough psychological research to be able to conclude this much. Evil people usually have a personality defect that's been crafted by various means, ie, abuse or trauma, or and both. Ie, my father was a hard working responsible worker, dad and husband, until he had a horrific accident, endured multiple painstaking treatments, that involved long hospital stays. After the accident he became a drunk, extremely abusive, nasty, and he neglected my mum and us children bady. The medications, operations, psychological, emotional and physical injuries messed with his head sadly. Interestingly, I do believe that narcicism was already in him, born from his trauma from abuse and neglect as a baby and child. Narcicism is a made psychological and psychiatric impairment, and it layed dormat in my dad, until his life threatening injuries bought his personality traits to the fore. My mom was neglected and abused since birth, but she was an angel. Some act out their abuse, and some get lucky, and make it through unscathed. It's just the way the dice rolls I guess?

[@distorbia20]

Is almost like she wanted to be the only child. Honestly she is crazy and don’t bother analysing crazy. Hope she never ever gets to sleep and is always haunted by her crimes

[@sugarsundae3400]

I believe she's innocent she was charged on circumstantial evidence.

[@dombyers6379]

Also if cctv camera hospital and care home but the tape room, people had watch when people change clothes see the nake body the patients and old people but need private in something What they will do with patients?

Well as it stands she is sat in jail being convicted with very little evidence if any evidence at all . Now shows like this will call her a serial killer, bearing in mind there is no direct evidence she did anything at all , infact she was sentenced on very spurious claims . I think this could be a massive miscarriage of justice. Im not convinced she did anything wrong at all . Im not convinced the jury got this right . With the pathetic evidence they had to judge her on .

[@johnreeveswilliamson7228]

Tell that to the victims families then. 🤦🏻‍♂️😣

@@johnreeveswilliamson7228 what point are you trying to make ? If i was a victim id want justice. not someone sitting in jail just so the Hospital can say job done back to normal . Even as a a victim id want to know the person who is being accused is put away with sound evidence not some spurious dodgy evidence decided by Jury who might have got it wrong.

[@irelandgp]

CCTV on all nicu wards

[@annekeohane8895]

Just wonder why the father didn't go to the front door and does judge goss realise that her father is anxious about buggery

[@karate4348]

Lucy's childhood experiences, particularly during her own infancy, pre and perinatal through to now must be investigated. The business model and underfunding/money throwing at execs etc not trained in medicine is destroying the NHS. Care and health from top to bottom must be reinstated, people including politicians must be held to account. Lucy's crimes speak of dissociation resulting from trauma. Probably well hidden, out of Lucy's control, out of conscious rational memory, (of herself and certainly those around her and need proper investigation.

[@karlamax3]

Does anyone know if this individual has decent parents have They studied her upbringing her ancestors & any history of crimes of this nature in her ancestry. ? Did she give any reason why she had these impulsive actions? At times some of these serial killers say that they were hearing voices ? I am from the US so I don’t think we have much information about the case on this side.

[@rebeccagabele3823]

The other thing is she was still in her 20's......I have never seen a charge type nurse in NICU? I could care less how educated she was.

[@Feddergenetics]

33 years old when sent down 26 when she started

[@Lauren-dx2hh]

And they should definitely have cctv in the baby units 100% because baby's are the most vulnerable and can't defend themselfs

[@victoriawalsh11]

How can you work in healthcare and social care and do this these people are dependent on our support as workers I wouldn’t even be rude to someone I’m support never mind this

[@j.t.5876]

What is her history? Especially in relationships. What an evil woman.

[@georgia8592]

Doesn't seem to have any I find that very odd

[@IchaelGill]

You're very nosy

[@Haberdashery22]

​@@IchaelGill😂😂😂Hey - there you are again😂😂😂

[@IchaelGill]

I won't be told what to do by you and by the way don't spend all your time on Google.🙀

[@IchaelGill]

Your never go away and that's a sad thing.😹

[@skrq9167]

The care system is horrible, she started murdering in 2015 I read

[@MarsOatom-oy8ze]

It's in her name.

[@amanda.s9948]

Acting like every nurse and doctor is a killer 🙄 This is a one in a million situation for gods sake.

[@weerobot]

The Gallows...

[@user-ls1lu7gu4u]

I get the cctv point but why are we hiring nhs staff that can’t be trusted? When it comes to doctors nurses police officers there should never be bad apples there can’t afford to be but unfortunately from my experience narcissists are normally attracted to these kind of jobs also with managerial roles. Society is the problem.

[@ChloAbssz]

She was just a sadistic psychopath.

[@Feddergenetics]

Any child killer be it a nurse or mother or father who kill their own children are narcissistic or have NPD !! As it’s called psychologically those who kill their own are despicable

[@thomasadams696]

Prove it

[@georgia8592]

​@@thomasadams696Her actions did that

[@aoifehiggins4894]

I work in childcare n the place I work with cctv n I have no problem with it

[@LogicPak]

the NHS has been getting away with negligence and poor care for years. What about all the people who were killed during covid 19? don’t know why these lot were clapped, they should be held accountable!

[@susantaylor3661]

Where is your evidence to support this??

[@SoldUrSoul24982]

​@@susantaylor3661Everywhere. Find it yourself & apologize.

[@SoldUrSoul24982]

​@@susantaylor3661You know of Midazolam Matt Handcock?

[@wannabefarmerr]

Yes body cams!!! Just like police If you have the power to kill others in your profession then you need to be watched thoroughly

[@sasset-uk1987]

I feel like we are tarring all nurses the same this is so rare out of millions of health care professionals to now film them constantly i dont no

[@user-kb8qw7dy4t]

The real question is, can people be born good? Any atheist can admit that evil exists in the world, but it takes a lot of faith to believe in the goodness of human nature. Frankly, I don't have much myself.

[@MH-es8kp]

I feel really uncomfortable with this news story being used as entertainment all over the media. It’s capitalising on the huge grief of those parents. Yes the story should be covered and any lessons to come from it should be shared but this relentless coverage feels very unnecessary. It’s starting to turn into some sort of spectator sport which I find really disturbing.

[@MH-es8kp]

@danswhite8544 I don’t think the victims want any of this attention either. I’m not sure why anyone would want to watch these devastated families grieve and suffer either. I’m a bereaved parent though in very different circumstances and it’s the constant use of this story by the media as some form of entertainment I find really disturbing. It’s like papers, shows etc are making money out of their grief.

[@SoldUrSoul24982]

​@danswhite8544The danger is you parroting mainstream media without questioning anything. Did you not question anything the mainstream media said during the plandemic? Did you go & get all the 💉 💉 when they recommended you did?

[@FootkerSnookball]

You can really hear the hosts lips make sounds when she talks, a little off putting.

[@youarewhatyouare]

I don't believe that you are born evil .I do believe tho some people are damaged emotionally probably from a very early age perhaps 15 months onwards and cannot in any way be corrected by the self in a way to live a life without some sort of resurrection of the past eruptions coming to play out in some bizarre horrible incidents most emotionally damaged people are sad lonely withdrawn within themselves people who go from one crises to the next without any idea what a total mess they can't get out from until they are put in a completely different environment

[@victoriawilkinson2677]

We are born selfish and will remain that way until we’re taught manners and direction, someone taught her to be the way she is now, to manipulate and to lie about who she was, she’s clearly deluded and pretended to care and nurture when the reality was that she was out for revenge against someone, and someone’s babies paid the price for her twisted and neglected character that was probably inflicted onto her possibly from childhood from people who were supposed to care about her but didn’t but that’s no excuse to take innocent babies lives, the death penalty should be reinstated in this country

[@Feddergenetics]

@danswhite8544HOW was her parents allowing narcissistic behaviour??? SHE took advantage and manipulated them

[@mirelabanu1039]

I agree. The death penalty should be all over the world. You take people's life, your life should be taken too.

[@thomasadams696]

@@mirelabanu1039that’s a matter of opinion

[@user-btmbangalore]

What is the motive? There is a certain sense of control this type hopes to attain, not joy or happiness from such crime. Why did she/they want that control? They see a vulnerability in them selves. They hope to be invulnerable. How you read your world comes from interactions in life. A parent may have certain view, a community may have certain odd view, a close lover may too have strange world view. We accept it as our own. You can not contest that odd world view with a certain type. They are too fixed in their opinion and assessments.

[@louisewalters2176]

Anyone working in that inviroment wouldnt mind because they doing nothing wrong .

[@alisonharte76]

I think gender is irrelevant. Anyone can do bad things. She was just evil. Gender is irrelevant 😢😢 and woman do murder look at myra Hindley, rose west ect.beverly allit? It's not unique. I just hope she suddenly realised and has empathy in the end.

[@safehouse8020]

Is there more lucy special healthcare