Lumbar Flexion is NOT Bad/Dangerous (Myths Busted | Evidence Based | Jefferson Curls)

[@E3Rehab]

Thank you so much for watching? What other 30 day challenges do you want us to try?

[@iainbarrowman9928]

I have been doing the Zercher Jefferson Curl now for a block. Before that the snatch grip. Give the zercher a whirl. It’s a dooooosy.

[@whatisahandle221]

Thank you for the research papers and links!

[@aaronlatif52]

Have had a bad back for almost 10 years when I was maxing out deadlifts in high school football with 5 plates and a 25 on each side. I thought I did everything out there to fix it. I even went to two doctors and did PT twice. Chiropractor for over a year, etc. Started doing these the past two weeks and my back feels the strongest it’s felt and wake up with nearly no pain, a lack of tightness, and a certain sense of integrity. Thought I made up the exercise and was doing it on a whim... I just had enough and decided to face the pain straight on. I did build my back up doing side plank, bird dog everyday and eventually added Romanian deadlifts and recently kettlebell swings. Those all helped to certain degrees but it felt like they mitigated the issues indirectly and very slightly.

[@ib1ray]

Thank you for your comment! I have some annoying low back pain partly from tight/weak hamstrings, quads, and calves. I'm workin on those but after just a couple sets of these, I already feel better!

[@andrewgusjackson]

Bro, my story is very similar to yours. Had back pain every morning for almost 1 year, started doing 20kg deficit j curls and it’s felt amazing

[@MrFallout86]

Hey Aaron, any updates? You still recommend jefferson curls. I'm in a very similar situation.

[@aaronlatif52]

​@@MrFallout86 My comment got erased as I was typing. To sum what I was saying: I stopped doing them until my knee gets better. They were putting a ton of pressure behind my knee which I was embracing a little too much with too much weight. My back always felt good doing them, it was just at the expense of my knee feeling too loose which I think can be mitigated by having a slight bend in knee while doing them. I would recommend using a light amount of weight. I was using an 80 lb kettle bell where I think 30 or lower is ideal.

[@therealdrag0]

I’m here for the Aaron Latif story! 😂 It’s been another 6months; any update?

[@funcfit]

From the cited cyclist study: Exclusion criteria included current spinal pain, history of traumatic injury to the spine, […]. That’s obviously a bias. And the control group did no exercise at all. I would expect that the disc quality in the cyclist group is better than of the nonsporting controls. It would be interesting to compare for example runners to cyclists. But that study proves nothing.

[@ProtatoFarmer69]

Same goes for the kettle bell study. No control group for lifts conducted with lumbar flexion. The inferences being made are completely erroneous.

[@AndreDev005]

Fucfit: Agree, and also if you consider we've evolved to be upright over millions of years, with accompanying small bulk lumbar extensors, then looking at full flexion regularly, plus added high weight PLUS trunk weight, the high forces are NOT what the evolution intends. It's curious what's being suggested here.

[@indeathsembrace666]

fascinating. the articles reviewed at the end made this video twice as informative. thanks for this effort

[@E3Rehab]

Our pleasure!

[@JK-nh6jp]

Hi there thanks for so much for doing this video. I am a medical doctor with history of low back pain recently started doing this exercise. I love the evidence-based approach breaking down medical myths we all learned.

[@joeandorian7719]

This exercise is very important for older folks. It directly activates the muscles crucial for getting up and down off of the floor comfortably. Also, it promotes ideal hamstring flexbility/strength in a balanced manner. If you want to keep falls to a minimum as people age, I think this exercise is very important.

[@lolzroflcopterzzz]

Well, since you indirectly covered the "dangers" involved with Sit Ups in this video, some other suggestions that would be interesting: 1. Sissy Squats 2. Behind the Neck Pressing I would love to see your 30 day progress and hear what the research actually says regarding these exercises/movements.

[@E3Rehab]

Good ideas!

[@iGameNakedx]

Sissy squats are NOT dangerous! The first week you want to do slow controlled reps. 5x5. Then slowly go to higher reps after rest days. They completely cured my knees! I started with doing 3 max just 9 a DAY to doing 20+ a day easy

[@duchaneaux]

Regarding behind the neck presses, Olympic weightlifter Dimity Klokov did snatch grip behind the neck presses for his shoulder surgery recovery. There's videos of him doing them very heavy now.

[@scolio-misti]

This is a great video. There is so much conflicting information about lumbar flexion. Thank you for posting!

[@TimTrevail]

Great videos Marc. Do you mind if I ask what software you use for the video editing? They come out really nicely.

[@E3Rehab]

Thanks! This was edited using Adobe Premiere Pro by Tony Comella.

[@gracefool]

I do these with almost bodyweight on a barbell. You can progress them like anything else. I've improved my pike / toe touch flexibility with them, it helps with compression exercises like v-sit and hamstring-calf flexibility, and is another grip exercise like hanging.

[@el_chico1313]

how long did it take you and how fif u reps and sets to it?

[@tamasmeszlenyi4591]

I do like your videos and have no experience with JCs, though thinking about starting them to experiment. However, I dont think doing them and not experiencing lumbar back pain is proof of anything. I'd say lifting stuff with a bent back is pretty good for the paravertebral muscles as they are working in their whole range of motion but the reason why most experts dont recommend is because of your lumbar discs going wedge shaped and with time you could get protrusions/hernias. Those only get symptomatic when they reach a certain point and start touching your nerve routes. That could take years of bad practices/habits, while you wouldnt experience any smpytoms before. What im interested in is whether the gains of muscle training are overcoming the risks of intervertebral disc damage in case of JCs or similar back bending expercises. Also what about those people whose intervertebral lumbar discs are already compromised somehow (flattened or herniated)? If you can do it without pain is it just further damaging your discs or is it possible to have some advantages due to increased blood flow at the area for example?

[@shawnbeckman3020]

Awesome video, thanks very much for putting this together. Have been looking around for someone to better explain why or why not lumbar flexion is dangerous and cite papers for their argument. The info is much appreciated, keep it up!

[@E3Rehab]

Thank you!

[@daledykes9253]

Lumbar flex ion doesn’t worry. What worries is that I cannot forward bend without experiencing nerve pain behind the knees.

[@markbroad119]

Un lock your knees

[@daledykes9253]

@@markbroad119 I have to!

[@tadeuferreira5775]

I have the same problem. What is the solution?

[@daledykes9253]

@@tadeuferreira5775 my approach was to abandon chasing extreme ranges of motion. I don’t thing they’re necessary for the vast majority of the population.

[@xwsora8664]

Do Elephant walks and progress slowly until you can do them on flat ground then you can start with Jefferson curls

[@PatrickDrinksCoffee]

My back is feeling better and better the more I do these, and I have only been using light weights for pretty low reps.

[@davydavy5300]

The thing about Stuart McGill is he has successfully treated a lot of people with lower back pain. He follows his patients progress over years, and has proven he can walk the talk.

[@ryanlie6250]

5:14 lol she's like damn i better start doing em jefferson curls

[@richrise4065]

Awesome video. Loved the info.

[@MindfulMovementPractice]

Nice work. I think you should have experimented with a zercher hold. Would have solved the 'weights hitting the bench' issue.

[@wyattchristiansen9089]

I've started doing them every Sunday (3 weeks in) and am gradually progressing weight and ROM (I'm doing them from the floor each rep). Plan is to do this long term with some alterations over time such as rep schemes and equipment used.

[@E3Rehab]

How's it going so far? Why did you start doing them?

[@wyattchristiansen9089]

@@E3Rehab good so far. I’ve had some recent flexion sensitivity and have used Jefferson’s in the past. But with all the recent postings against spinal movement under load, I decided to actually read a lot of the McGill (and other research) and came to a fairly similar belief as you guys that the spine is robust and adaptable and that while a “neutral” spine may be mechanically inefficient in the case of a dead lift or a clean to some degree it’s going to happen and why not increase my tissue tolerance and simply get stronger at a new movement

[@Circe-wz3kg]

Hey! are ya now?

[@daledykes9253]

I agree that lumbar flexion is not inherently dangerous. But with the Jefferson Curl, with knees locked, I experience nerve pain behind my knees even in the early portion of the movement.

[@jarlsparkley]

Try hamstring nerve glides/flossing first to make sure your sciatic nerve is sliding through your muscles without resistance.

[@daledykes9253]

@@jarlsparkley thanks, but I no longer consider extreme forward extension with knees locked a sensible, much less necessary goal.

[@Hello-gf2og]

This channel is great, love the content.

[@E3Rehab]

Thank you!

[@stefansmith920]

Maybe check dr stuart mcgill to see the compression forces with flexion. I had 3 herinations and the only thing that helped is minimal lumbar flexion after reading Dr Stuart Mcgill But I can also say that its me and everyone is different

[@davidringo4672]

Unless you squat/deadlift and do activities that put compression on your back, you are not going to notice the almost therapeutic effects of doing JCs. I have benefitted from them with just 15 lb dumbbells. The sweet spot seems to be around 7 reps for a couple of slow sets at the end of a workout. Going past 25 lb dumbbells makes my upper glutes sore in a way that I don't like.

[@Mensa.Abteilung_Luzifer]

But big glutes are life :c

[@maryanderson8746]

My PT has introduced Jefferson curls without weight as a means to help me with my lumbar flexion intolerance and tight hamstrings. He has been very careful to show me how to do these correctly. I am a year out from L5S1 surgery. Good or bad for someone a year out from microdiscectomy and why?

[@serafimkotyarov9625]

Very interesting video. I am meticulously following Stuart McGill (Back Mechanic), and he argues against any degree of lumbar flexion. Though this video now has me more confused, it is interesting to see a perspective that disagrees with McGill's teachings.

[@E3Rehab]

www.strongerbyscience.com/lumbar-flexion/

[@serafimkotyarov9625]

@@E3Rehab thank you for sharing this!

[@mikehoncho2900]

No lumbar flexion creates fear avoidance movement

[@silviuvirgil12]

@@E3Rehab Your own link says the opposite! "As we get into lifting heavy objects or more grueling endeavors, “better” will likely shift more in favor of the neutral range. Currently, we have a number of papers that favor neutral while lifting; we do not have any favoring flexion. "

[@spencerking7777]

I've been playing with these more recently. As far as setup, I've found a barbell(or broom handle through a KB handle) held in a zercher position and pulling from the floor the easiest. This eliminates the need for a box. Alternatively using a kettlebell and standing on one step works decently well.

[@johnmorrison7205]

I injured my lower back bent over rowing with a rounded back due to spinal erector fatigue after dead lift (bad idea), have been successfully using Jefferson curls to progressively increase tolerance to lunbar flexion over time. Before programming this exercise I got to where I could deadlift again (neutral spine) but was aggravating it with even small amounts of lumbar flexion say on a cable or dumbell row.

[@WestsideBoy]

I've been doing these using heel wedges to point my toes up. I don't have nearly the same amount of mobility as you, but I'm practically able to get my knuckles to my feet with straight knees on these. I'm calling them Jefferson Curls in my logs, but in reality they probably look more like rounded back stiff legged deadlifts. The intent to do a Jefferson Curl is fully there though, I just have terrible lumbar mobility. Anyway, if you're somebody that deadlifts heavy frequently I recommend doing these to mobilize your lower back and hips, and it's a great way to "get more out of less weight"!

[@simonsilva250]

Great video as always! I want to add Jefferson Curls to my training but I'm unsure how often I should do them and what does a reasonable weight progression look like. I know I'm not giving any context to the rest of my training but is twice a week, 4 sets of 3, 2 lbs increase each week too much or maybe too little?

[@LakerLife]

What if I have 2 preexisting lumbar herniations?

[@silviuvirgil12]

Avoid it! The very article that this guys cites says this: "As we get into lifting heavy objects or more grueling endeavors, “better” will likely shift more in favor of the neutral range. Currently, we have a number of papers that favor neutral while lifting; we do not have any favoring flexion"

[@ignaciobrizzio3999]

WOW this is quality content!

[@arenuzzle6282]

Jefferson feels good it like a stretch on the lumber when you feel stiff

[@_.dace._]

5:08 wifey at the end is like.. stop doing these people's dumb exercise suggestions for 30 days!

[@kerem121]

this is key for deadlifts.

[@freehatespeech6804]

Does it still count as a Jefferson curl if I just lift from the floor? As long as my legs are completely straight, in a true straight legged deadlift

[@tigerboy4516]

I bet a long isometric hold version of this move would be great. Build strength, flexibiliy

[@Letyourvoicebeheardclv]

I have read that when first starting this exercise one should work there way up to 50 percent of own body wieght over a length of 12-18 months. Thank you for the video

[@mattstraka5238]

ideas on things I think are bad or heard other PTs or orthopedic doctors say is frequently--- shoulder press behind neck, Russian twists, heavy weight lifting neck exercises, tricep dips. good mornings

[@E3Rehab]

Good ideas!

[@thorwannabe6810]

Russian twists? How could they be harmful

[@abdullahsakeen]

this lift depends on the injury history of every individual. I have a history of L1 and L2 stable compression (wedged) fractures. It hurts looking at you do this. I wish it didn’t though😪

[@E3Rehab]

Every lift depends on the injury history of the individual. Sorry to hear about your compression fractures. Best of luck.

[@allos434]

You should try doing jefferson curls on a slunt board for 30 days.

[@nw3877]

Ah yea, simultaneous calf stretch

[@alexcarvajalramirez4048]

wow this is awesome, I been suffer for back pain the last 4 months, trying to stay neutral all day, this is really a new approach, very interesting-.-.-.

[@Rick-se5qm]

My wife is a Dr.PT who says I have a flat lower back. Seems to think this cannot be made to work like you demonstrate here. Hence the chronic low back issues for the past 50 years. Second opinion? lol

[@iainbarrowman9928]

Excellent video.

[@G4mer_D4d]

When I was 19 I would drop my face to my shins and got super limber in about 6 months. It also ended up very stable when walking across river rocks... idk that I would lift weights tho. Shrug.

[@brianwright9514]

So, I'm looking into adding this to my lumbar rehab regimen. I have issues with one of my discs (L4, I think) and I usually have a flare up about 1 time per year. I am very inflexible and usually have some kind of low level back pain. I am trying to figure out if this kind of exercise can help me to regain low back mobility and reduce the instances of pain that I currently deal with. I'm interested in your thoughts on this.

[@harrysidhu4027]

As a therapist myself, I would recommend building stability through spine first with something like the McGill 3 and then slowly Introducing lumbar flexion with exercises such as cat cow before moving into loading flexion with the Jefferson curl. Focus on pain free ROM for each of them and progress slowly. Also, understand while lumbar flexion isn't bad, you do not want have it in exercises where your spine needs to be stable and brace such as a heavy squat and deadlift. Hope this helps.

[@eduardoramirez4768]

What is your thoughts on training Jefferson curls while dealing with a low back herniated disc is it a bad idea

[@RichKingston73]

Great video

[@E3Rehab]

Thank you!

[@freehatespeech6804]

Does this lift hit the hamstrings well?

[@coldfingers5915]

I think there's nothing wrong with lumbar flexion if you don't just rush into it and if you don't have pre-existing spinal issues...but for me the more interesting question is, can someone with a hip replacement do a fold past 90 degree hip flexion? I'm currently trying to teach just the regular forward fold to my mother who's had both hips replaced via lateral aproach(more than 10 years ago). But to be careful, so far I've only cued her to do it with completely flat lower back and hinging at the hips as to not go to really deep hip flexion. Her surgeon advised to not exceed that range but I don't know if it's a permanent limitation or if it was post op only. Doctors often err on the side of caution so he'll likely say that it's permanent. What I've noticed is that lying on her back she can tuck her legs to her chest no prob(and no pain evidently). The other similarly puzzling question is deep squat...as of now I only have her squat to parallel. As a person with hip replacement yourself, what has your experience been with deeper than 90 deg hip flexion? Thanks.

[@KeithTheKing67]

If you haven't heard of em yet, check out the kneesovertoesguy on youtube. He has his own website and whole ATG program which should help a lot; if anything can help you and your mother, it'd be thekneesovertoes guy ATG system.

[@FromtheLBC]

But why would one want to do so much lumbar flexion when typically most people’s lifestyles promote flexion already.

[@ozancanca9740]

Amazing video

[@Svensvenson7777]

I'm going to start doing these. I do jiu-jitsu and you get in extended lumbar flexion under a load.

[@tigerboy4516]

Dear scientist, no one's ever benefited by leaving their weak links weak.

[@dansilverstein9347]

How might the approach/message change for a person >3/12 post lumbar decompression surgery?

[@kyleklinzing2341]

Even though you’ve already dominated the leg extension controversy would still like to see you do leg extensions to completely own the haters lol!

[@E3Rehab]

lol I’d love to, but I still don’t have access to a gym. I’ll put a leg extension machine in my living room if any companies wanna sponsor me...

[@w7855]

Really interesting video, thanks for citing all those interesting studies. There’s no doubt core stability and stiffness is important, but the spine can also be stiff and stable in all positions, not just “neutral” … right?

[@Нулёвый-й3ц]

Hi Thanks a lot for your video and all of the arguments. But i'd really like to see your spine before and after. Tell me if you have that video, please

[@DfJ1010]

Very good! Thx! I always wondered why those McGill pig spine studies were held up as strong evidence against our flexing our spines. I mean... they’re dead pig spines.... Would we use dead pig muscles to investigate the best muscle hypertrophy protocol?

[@E3Rehab]

Important studies, but probably a bit of a leap with some conclusions that are made.

[@davidethierapril6571]

Yes, Mcgill has used pig spines to study herniation Mechanisms. If you would dig deeper, you would know he had a lab where he did studies on Deceased spines, he had an in vivo lab where he would have athletes lift and watch the spine using fluoroscopy, he would also do cohort studies on automobile car workers, teams of athletes for example and he had a clinic at the university where he would see a bunch of patients with back pain. So when you take the body of evidence he has provided, what he says actually makes senses. You should know he always provides a context for what he says. He doesn't deal in absolutes. You should listen to his podcasts, he's a very fun and relaxed person. Also the guy has over 240 published papers over 30 years. Banging him down for doing studies on animals/cadavers is pretty cheap. I don't know many people who would give their spine to conduct a study to see what are the mechanism for herniation.

[@Freshanatha]

@@davidethierapril6571 yes that is true but the point still stands pig spine does not equal Human spine. Humans have a very different spine from animals who walk on 4 legs because of the way gravity effects it. The reason we need a curve in our lower back is to put our main body mass directly above our center of gravity. 4 legged animals do not need this because they are parallel to the ground.

[@davidethierapril6571]

@@Freshanatha if read McGill, you would know pig cervical spines are so similar to human lumbar spines that surgeons can't tell the difference? And you really think McGill doesn't.know that? That he doesn't know the limits of those particular studies? Go read his books. He will teach you alot about human spines and how how they function, right down to cellular level. He is the expert, not me, you or these youtube people. The guy has over 200 peer reviewed studies on spines. This would be very condescending for him.

[@TheoneD11]

Two famous PTs on KZbin brought a disc jelly model showing the mechanism for disc bulging is 'loaded flexion' and that lumbar spine should always be in slight extension (S curve). Your views? Oh God I am so confused.

[@E3Rehab]

You might find this video helpful - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqDco5pqp5uGmrs

[@TheoneD11]

@@E3Rehab Thanks for response. I found that video to be too good and easy to grasp.

[@Rory626]

5:10 she's wondering why tf she still with him by this point

[@jonathanalessi924]

Lumbar extension under load especially arched back during bench, etc...

[@E3Rehab]

Which movement would I do? Bench with an arched back every day? Maybe a wheel pose?

[@diesertyp7822]

Benching with an arch puts no more load on the spine than literally just arching your back. During the benchpress the load is on your upper back/shoulder area, not on your spine.

[@E3Rehab]

@@diesertyp7822 wasn’t sure if he just meant working toward end range extension daily.

[@jonathanalessi924]

@@E3Rehab wheel pose might be cool! maybe add weight over time on top of you or something like that? I'm really not sure. I'm just triggered by people telling me that arching my back is going to result in doom

[@jonathanalessi924]

@@diesertyp7822 I'm aware. I've explained my thoughts on the orthogonality of the load to the direction of the spine and how there is literally no compression force added by the weight on the bar, but some biomechanical masters grads I talk with argue this isn't entirely true due to slight movement of the bar in and out of the vertical plane and the use of muscles for stabilization. But yes, I completely agree with you.

[@LyndonEA]

You can do anything really if you have adequate load management and recovery. By the time most people have learnt the technique and slowly progressed with more weights. They would of gained the stability and desensitisation in those tissues to do that movement and those who don't will inturn overcook themselves. Any movement will have a higher risk under heavier loads if there is no/minimal progression to do that movement and load

[@g49385]

Build to 100% bodyweight over 3 months. 5 sets of 3 with increasing weight .

[@KoenDeJaeger]

What about people with osteoporosis?

[@huseyincelik6570]

Try the Seated good morning for 30 days

[@E3Rehab]

Good choice! I've never done it before.

[@Jerryskids]

Can I do this exercise if I have anteriorlisthesis

[@Immortalsoul669]

So what is the truth.. mcgill says don't ever go into flexion. Man I swear everything is politics these days

[@TheoneD11]

Same question.

[@Immortalsoul669]

@@TheoneD11 smh

[@Kickboxer7267]

But what causes disc herniations then? I still stick with straight back

[@Immortalsoul669]

@@Kickboxer7267 true. But sometimes you can't avoid it for every day tasks like putting on shoes and socks that should be ok

[@Immortalsoul669]

@@Kickboxer7267 I definitely agree that if your lifting weights then yes straight back

[@loselcuba8894]

I'll try such inclinations, I hope the clamps go away. Hello from Russia !!!

[@calisthenicsbeliever7602]

I’m 12 years old and have always had really tight hamstrings so I couldn’t touch my toes so if I preform these safely with good form will it help my flexibility significantly or at least to a decent extent?

[@E3Rehab]

Great question! I don't think touching your toes is something that you need to worry about. I think it's better to find different forms of exercise that you enjoy. Touching your toes isn't indicative of anything health or performance metric.

[@calisthenicsbeliever7602]

@@E3Rehab Ik I just want to be more flexible in my hamstrings

[@CH-tv1cy]

@@calisthenicsbeliever7602 do straight leg deadlifts

[@calisthenicsbeliever7602]

@@CH-tv1cy Yeah but those are more strength training while Jefferson curls put all the emphasis on stretching

[@CH-tv1cy]

@@calisthenicsbeliever7602 just do reasonably light weight and go to Max range of movement. Building strength at Max range will increase your hamstring flexibility

[@lewisdrew2561]

Would this help someone with an anterior pelvic tilt?

[@E3Rehab]

Help in what way?

[@lewisdrew2561]

@@E3Rehab with the stretching of the lower back, would this have a positive or negative effect?

[@lokomotive28]

@@lewisdrew2561 i’m currently trying it for that , i see a connection but seems to get better and worse , maybe my technique is bad

[@yossiharrar136]

@@lokomotive28I have an anterior pelvic tilt and I’m doing these does it help?

[@lokomotive28]

@@yossiharrar136 hell no , these youtube trainers are just showing things that they have heard have helped, look for real stories of people who have reversed

[@davidlewis5737]

The box study has an incredibly narrow conclusion that doesn't support your argument: it says a particular kind of "high risk" lift has similar compression forces regardless of technique. That doesn't show the safety of lumbar flexion for wide box, low hand lifting, and it certainly doesn't generalise to any other kind of lifting people do.

[@zetareticulan321]

It's called the Jefferson curl because one day Thomas Jefferson went hiking with one of his friends. His friend slipped and fell off the side of a cliff, and was holding on for his life. Luckily, Thomas Jefferson rushed to his rescue, and used this exact movement to pull his friend back up to safety.

[@carlbright6296]

Why pick a Jefferson Curl when you can get a better risk/reward ratio with a multitude of other exercises. If you look at the research myoelectric silence occurs at end-range flexion, putting more load onto the passive tissues. This may be great for muscles, tendons, ligaments and even the vertebral body, but the intervertebral disk has been shown to have poor healing capacity and there are no studies documenting it responding positively to something like a Jefferson Curl. The Jefferson Curl is probably quite safe and pretty effective at low loads, however it isn't going to have as much potential for progressive overload in comparison to a Deadlift, RDL, 45 Degree Hip Extension for example. Nice work on "myth busting" by putting out even more misinformation.

[@E3Rehab]

Unfortunately, Carl, confidence in your conviction doesn't make it true.

[@ProtatoFarmer69]

@@E3Rehab You didn't counter any of his points, and you misinterpret the very studies you cite.

[@johnnovick1643]

You may want to try the primal squat or the so called Asian squat or Slavic squat for 30 minutes for 30 days. I had to give it a break. Could feel it in lower back Let us know what you think of it.

[@Frankito0403]

Your wife is giving you that look! 🤣🤣🤣

[@ProtatoFarmer69]

You are entirely misinterpreting the last study you cite. That study simply states there is significant flexion occurring during kettle bell lifts with a neutral spine. This should not be a surprise. This would only be meaningful in the context of the study if there is a group controlling for intentionally increased lumbar flexion, e.g. not maintaining neutral spine. To then infer that training lumbar flexion under load is beneficial demonstrates a poor understanding of statistical inference. Not to mention the study only makes a comparison to barbell lifts where lower shear forces relative to compressed forces are observed. But this is clearly not what you are implying.

[@samhup9662]

You mentioned technique was difficult, is there a decent instructional video on how to perform these lifts safely (relatively safer)? Are you stiffening your core throughout the movement too? Thanks for the great myth-busting vid!

[@E3Rehab]

Christopher Sommer probably has a video somewhere. No, I didn't actively stiffen my trunk. Technique was challenging because of the soft surface of the bench and the dumbbells get blockier with every increase in weight (harder to balance). Otherwise, fairly straightforward.

[@NocturnalIntuition]

Watch knees over toes guy

[@vinividivici2479]

squats with knee valgus or upright rows over 90° :b

[@E3Rehab]

I'm finally going to have access to a barbell so I might do upright rows!

[@ernestberlot8289]

why didn't increase your weight to improve the progressiv loaded stretching.

[@E3Rehab]

I provided reasoning in the video.

[@ryanlie6250]

getting out of bed every morning is also as detrimental as jefferson curls. source: trust me bro

[@rist98]

If you do a jefferson curl at the same weight as you deadlift, youre gonna have a bad time. So, like, dont do that. But otherwise, yeah its a good exercise to still do. Just know its limitations.

[@Pablo-pk2qi]

Dogs still first part of the show.

[@jdh8931]

your wife was mirin you at the end there lol

[@doronuzanhebrew]

awesome

[@ConnorWaldo]

You're not locking out your knees

[@jeffersongomez675]

It,'s good o not?

[@E3Rehab]

It depends

[@chaosdweller]

I just did it with light weight high reps at the end of leg workout and I luv them , especially for some one like me who would like to increase their flexibility while getting stronger. I wouldn't start off like this guy though, I'd do a more high rep low weight approach on 1st try , even if your stronger than him . But otherwise I agree with everything he said other than that 1thing.

[@scarred10]

Theres no need for extreme flexion loaded movements and its a proven mechanism of cumulative disc injury according to decades of research by stu mcgill.

[@DrewCrew510]

lock out them knees and reduce the weight

[@veganyogi88]

The problem with lumbar flexion is that our American society practically lives in it 90% of their day between work, driving, and sitting down at home relaxing, which studies also show that much sitting contributes to back pain due to being in a flexed position for so long plus getting such tight hip flexor and weak glutes.. So why do we want to practice movements like the Jefferson curl that reinforce this? perhaps this movement better for gymnasts. I'm dealing with an issue in my low back that I got from over flexing my spine, and while I'm not in pain, I've been avoiding flexion like the plague. But honestly I can relate to the fear of rounding and flexing my spine, and I'd like to get over that fear, but would also like to first figure out what the issue is and get the soreness and stiffens to release first.

[@E3Rehab]

You are vilifying lumbar flexion, but your description has more to do with inactivity than the position of the spine. Lumbar flexion is normal and safe.

[@veganyogi88]

@@E3Rehab oh

[@NorThenX047]

working on strengthening my entire posterior chain helped relieve my lower back pain along with stretching AND strenthening my hip flexers. reverse hypers and spending time in deep squat variations made me feel better consistently. my low back didn't become receptive to any resistance training until i dealt core and glute weaknesses

[@NorThenX047]

@@E3Rehab thanks for that spine flexion post from the science site. very interesting read

[@crez1988]

Hindu squats for 30 days

[@E3Rehab]

Those look interesting!

[@danbenz6362]

I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes per day for 30 days and didn’t get cancer. Cigarettes are therefore safe.

[@jilim6455]

You need to go heavier. How did you expect to get amazing results with 60% body weight?

[@calisthenicsindia8498]

The lumbar spine flexion is the gem if the vid

[@TroyDowVanZandt]

Your wife and dog seem utterly unimpressed, but I found it interesting.

[@hasbeh9575]

👍