Luthier Tips du Jour - Buffing High Gloss Finishes - O'Brien Guitars

[@OBrienGuitars]

@EmilFinnas94 Absolutely! I first do my surface prep...sand to 220 and pore fill. I then spray seal coats. I then level and spray 4-6 coats of clear topcoat over a 2 day period leveling at the beginning of the second day. I level with 320. Happy Finishing!

[@OBrienGuitars]

You can touch up small areas with lacquer as it is an evaporative finish and builds in one single layer. Just spray that area (mask off anywhere you don't want to spray) and then after appropriate cure time level and buff to high gloss.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Thank you. Glad you liked the video. I am not sure what grit the extra fine is.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@diegohernan82 Thanks. If I remember correctly that drum is spinning at around 1725 RPM

[@OBrienGuitars]

I use cotton wheels for buffing. French polish makes a wonderful finish. If you want to learn more about my French polish method check out my website under the online course page

[@bosephusjr]

Hello Mr. O'Brien, Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge & expertise! Your kindness is greatly appreciated. David G -Raleigh, NC

[@TheBinaryWolf]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and fine skill. Excellent presentation.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Thank you and thanks for watching.

[@OBrienGuitars]

I use instrument grade lacquer. I have used them all. Mcfaddens/Seagraves, Behlens/Mohawk, etc.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@botooleg Thank you for the compliment. Happy Building!

[@OBrienGuitars]

@joeygonzo This was a lacquer finish and I sanded it to a higher grit than normal so no course compound was used.

[@DIYGene]

I did not know about the sand paper grading system being different . Thanks for the information.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@Wesley77Small If you can lift the speakers I prefer using a stationary buffing wheel. If not you will need to use a buffing bonnet on a hand held power buffer. For lacquer, a high quality instrument grade lacquer is a must. There are few brands available: Seagraves (Mcfaddens) and a newer brand I am experimenting with is Cardinal.

[@learnerlearns]

Excellent video! I too prefer the belt-driven buffers, and not just because they are safer for the guitar. My friend nearly had his head torn off when he got his long hair caught in a direct-drive buffer. It took a three-inch chunk of his scalp. All these tips regarding EU vs US abrasive ratings, compounds, correct position of the instrument, loose belt as a clutch, swirl remover... all good stuff!

[@OBrienGuitars]

@HudCouto Você pode usar a politriz se quiser mas vai de leve. Também a camada de óleo é bem fina e você corre o risco de passar a camada de cima para a de baixo. Isto vai ser visível.

[@almirclaudino8920]

Wonderful job Robert. You were in Brazil and I missed the opportunity to meet you

[@OBrienGuitars]

@cryglory No, You must level and buff the finish if you want a flat high gloss finish. This has to be done whether you spray with cans, a gun or even brush on the finish

[@OriginalSmoothOperator]

Thank you for the demonstration!! I also want to say that is a beautiful guitar you used. I especially like the parrot on the headstock, and I'll bet it sounds great too. Thanks again.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Not all lacquers are created equal. I prefer the instrument grade lacquers. I also use Menzerna brand buffing compounds. These can be purchased at lutherie supply warehouses.

[@jhonatansegovialuthier]

En dónde compras el pulimento? Muchas gracias por el video

[@butchd18]

thanks for great finishing tips great work obriens guitars

[@OBrienGuitars]

@bosephusjr You are quite welcome David. Happy Building!

[@seasonedtoker]

with sandpaper you are not only interested in grit, but the paper backing also matters. In Europe the grades go from A to F. thin to thick

[@joeguitargod]

Very informative and enjoyable to watch. Thanks for posting.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@HudCouto Lixando entre as camadas ajuda a úlitma camada ser liso sim. Se quiser um acabamento de vidro tem que usar um produto adequado e tru oil não é o ideal para isso. Prefiro tru oil para tungue ou linhaça nos instrumentos. Agora em móveis prefiro linhaça.

[@OBrienGuitars]

I use menzerna buffing compounds. They will work on all guitar finish materials

[@chrislindsey4056]

Which menzerna compounds are you using, and can you recommend (or do you recommend) a dual purpose compound for finishes and fret polishing. You know, two birds etc... Love your videos, just bummed it has taken me this long to find you. Be well.

[@johnnypk1963]

Robert, 1st off, your 1 of best resources on the net for FREE high quality simple advise/tips/lessons. If I lived anywhere near you I wouldve attended your school long ago. My question: I've used CA glue to pour-fill 2 electric guitars, and i'm pleased with ease of use and results. Any problems with this method? They were finished with spray poly. Ive seen your video on pourfilling with black dyed spackle, by the way. Cheers to U, good sir!!!! Thanks

[@m1garandisthebest]

Hello Robert, I am new to finishing and was wondering if you knew how one can accheive a satin finish like Martin does on some of their instruments? Thank you! PS I use nitrocellulose primarily and french polish on occasion

[@OBrienGuitars]

It should but there is only one way to find out. I recommend doing sample boards.

[@li2ljay]

is there a special technique you use to remove the tape after all the buffing is done ?It seems due to the thickness of the finish itself you'd need to score the tape edge to remove it , and maybe then more buffing on the fretboard edge to get rid of the tape line . Thanks for all you videos and your help !

[@OBrienGuitars]

+Jay Rogers Yes, I score the tape just inside the footprint of the bridge. I then use a razor and chisel to remove the tape and finish up to my score lines. The finish will go under thebridge by about a 1/6th or so.

[@OBrienGuitars]

When doing a satin finish I prefer to spray high gloss and then rub it out to a satin sheen using steel wool. I show how to do this in my online finishing course via my website.

[@TheBinaryWolf]

I tried a satin finish on a 1941 Ramirez but had to restore the gloss: satin is rougher than gloss. In a recording studio, the artifact of handling the instrument drove the insightful sound engineer crazy. Fret noise is acceptable but not tactile artifact. A glossy finish is thus preferable.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@@TheBinaryWolf Interesting. I have never heard of this issue.

[@TheBinaryWolf]

@@OBrienGuitars With dry fingers, gently rub the surface of a guitar with a satin finish. You will hear a lot more noise than on a gloss finish. Even handling such an instrument taints its sound as detected by a microphone. Segovia's records suffered lack of quality, being sterile due to his distancing self from the microphone: he did so to minimize fret noise and the sound of his clothes rubbing against his responsive Hauser. He even wore slippers to the studio, and often to the concert hall. Instrunent artifact is hardly noticeable, except when consciously sought or heard through full spectrum headphones.

[@EmilFinnas94]

@OBrienGuitars Thanks you very much! I assume the same goes with electric guitars...and, do you go after the American grit system?

[@OBrienGuitars]

haha!! Glad to hear it worked for you. Onward and upward!

[@guegavioloesvioloes]

I have a doubt working with polyurethane, and after polishing gets a risquinhos so if you see the reflection of light use sandpaper brand Indasa 2000, when I do the lacquer before polishing it is without these risk which of course the problem then this you think you can be?

[@OBrienGuitars]

@neilmacmusic Thanks!

[@IsaacOLEG]

Hello, very nice video (without wheels prep and cleaning however) Menzerna gaves a 30meter/second for buffing PU, so your large wheel is not "that" fast in the end. Well I suppose on Nitrocellulose lacquer the speed may be less possibly (?) I mostly buff pianos, hence polyester, so the "large" wheel for me is about 10", due to my machine (strong but intended for 250mm disks). But I plan to use larger ones just to raise speed and have better leveling. the steel brush before buffing make a huge difference, as being attentive not having thread protuberating. I warm my disks a little before putting the paste. Best regards

[@aandc2005]

what is the best way to sand the outside edge and inside where the neck joint is of a electric guitar starting with 600 to 2000, I hate doing it by hand it takes forever, I was thinking of useing a Oscillating Spindle Sander but the grits aren't high enough, theres got to be a easier way to sand it other then by hand, it's real pain to get it flat on the inside near the neck joint. on the front and back I use a da sander with 600, 800, 1200, 1500 then 3000 3mm wet sand hook and loop then buff it

[@bikashgurung4597]

Sir can you put a discrimination where we buy this buffing wheel?

[@sirgreggins8824]

is tru oil glossy to start off. I used BLO on a neck repair a while back. and it was a satin finish of course.

[@guegavioloesvioloes]

uma dificuldade que tenho por aqui quando faço calculos para as medidas dos trastes elas so vem inesatas como faço para dividir melhor, e ter um padrão de afinação perfeito ?

[@natanborges5983]

A cada vídeo uma ótima aula ,muito bom

[@OBrienGuitars]

Yes it does.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Thank you for the compliment. I receive students from all over the world so distance is no excuse. haha CA glue is another method of pore filling that many luthiers use. It is fine. Just learn how to use it and life is good. Happy Building!

[@OBrienGuitars]

Parece que de alguma forma na hora de polir você ou não está tirando todos os risquinhos ou está colocando mais. Isto pode ser o tipo de lixa, contaminação na lixa ou na politriz.

[@EmilFinnas94]

If you use cellulose laquer, should you apply several layers? If so, how many? And, should you sand between applying the layers? If so, which grain is to be preferred? Thanks a lot for the video!

[@michaelwelbornmusic]

Great video, Im thinking about getting a buffer for my shop to speed up fret polishing and polish out the small amount of finish repairs I do. I saw you wearing the face shield which raises the question does it spray off a lot of dust? I'm a one man shop and work in my home and thats my only concern with getting a buffer

[@OBrienGuitars]

I wear a mask for the dust but the face shield is to protect me against flying objects. At the very least wear safetly glasses.

[@bennyhill3505]

Hi, sorry if you've had this query before but i have a Black Gloss ej200. It has lots of scratches, belt marks on the back and a few light scratches on the front. I don't know whether to just go over it with a polishing cmpound to clean it up as much as possible, or to do some wetsanding first, then polishing compound. I'm just a bit nervy about the sanding, so not sure. Any advice would be greatly recieved...Thanks...

[@OBrienGuitars]

Na verdade esses discos são do Brasil. Comprei quando morava aí na sua terra. Aqui nos EUA tem bastante lugares que vendem. Eastwood tem.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Most auto finishing places carry a full line of buffing wheels and compounds to use with them. I would start there.

[@uhcalabresse]

I had a small kid draw with marker on my Gibson Songwriter Deluxe Custom on a small area on the front above the Hole. (Ouch!) It's roughly a 4"wide by 2" high area. I was able to remove the marker lines, unfortunately I removed the High Gloss Nitro Laquer finish. You can see the spot in the different light. Can I re-blend this area using Nitro Spray and buffing? Any Suggestions? Sm

[@James-wh9jr]

Any tips on repairing burn through on nitro-lacquer. Martin Classical Acoustic. Should i drop fill and spray due to very thin finish due to multiple attempts at just drop fill and sanding.

[@OBrienGuitars]

@aandc2005 whatever works for you is the method you should use. Good luck

[@uhcalabresse]

Thanks so much for your feedback. What kind of buffing compound do you recommend? and where can I purchase? (Home Depot?) If I need Nitro Lacquer can I purchase this at Home Depot as well. Really appreciate your help and expertise. cheers Sm

[@James-wh9jr]

And if i do spray it is there anyway to mask to avoid overspray whithout getting build up or tape lines i dont want to refinish the whole guitar?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Not really. To get a high gloss finish like the one I demonstrate here you need a film finish that can build. Traditionally oils are applied in very thin layers and this means you don't have enough build needed to level and buff the finish without going through it.

[@davidsoriginalmusic9368]

Great video. where do you get your buffing wheels and what type cloth are they? appears you don't need to use a large steel flange with those which is great.

[@OBrienGuitars]

I got these in Brazil many years ago but they are available from a variety of sources. Mine were made of cotton. www.lmii.com/buffing-polishing/2929-buffing-wheel-34-arbor-12-bias-canton-flannel-wmetal-center.html

[@josepereirafilhopereira7250]

Obrigado, pelas explicações. Muito obrigado!

[@IsaacOLEG]

are not soft pads better for sanding rounded surfaces ? I sand with lines (crossing) , so I see them with the next grain and erase them,by sanding 45° but it is not easy on complicated shapes indeed. I use an orbital sander as much as I can (but my surfaces are 4-6 times a guitar, and flat mostly ;)

[@OBrienGuitars]

I always use hard backing pads and that seems to work for me.

[@IsaacOLEG]

Do you have some floor "dust extraction" or something near the wheel (above?)

[@OBrienGuitars]

no I do not.

[@IsaacOLEG]

OBrienGuitars current project for me, too much dust, and I need to spray or French polish in the same place as polishing!

[@OBrienGuitars]

Yes I have.

[@OBrienGuitars]

You might try wet sanding it and buffing again on a wheel to a gloss. If there isn't any lacquer left then you will have to re-spray. Isn't this fun?!!

[@patriciojosebordenave70]

Hello, sorry...I know this is a old video but...could describe or tell me what kind of cloth or material are thise wheels made of?. I am trying to make a couple for me because where I live it is impossible to get one. Thanks.

[@OBrienGuitars]

They are made from a soft flannel like material

[@patriciojosebordenave70]

@@OBrienGuitars Thank you very much, I will try to make one.

[@Alexfranch2012]

Does that work with water-based lacquer?

[@joeygonzo]

What finish did you use ? Also, you didn't use the brown compound. Too coarse ? Thank you

[@cleohss]

Great job! I wish I coul have a course in my city. Do you plan to come back to Brazil? If you do, please tell us, and consider living in Fortaleza next time! hehe

[@OBrienGuitars]

Most likely I will be in Brazil in Minas Gerias in July of 2014 for a guitar building course. Contact Luciano Borges of Viola Mineira for more info.

[@cleohss]

OBrienGuitars Awesome! Thanks!!!

[@pkusterlfd]

ok, I'll try that. I wasn't for certain if the swirl remover acted like a cleaner putting more polish swirls in it. Thanks

[@jokpyles]

Hello Robert, good and useful explanation! in the Last weeks I have searched any explanation about how could I paint, for instance, a guitar neck with bindings along it, but I didn't find out. Is it necessary to remove the binding before paint or do you have a tip for?

[@OBrienGuitars]

Mask off the top of the fretboard and bindings. The side of the bindings will get a finish.

[@pkusterlfd]

I'm always reading where one can "buff" out scratches on a guitar, usually from someone selling a guitar. I have fine polishing swirls etc in the finish of my guitars and was going to purchase a buffing wheel, but after watching your video I'm not sure it's as easy as turning on the wheel and adding polish. Any recommendations around polishing an already existing nice finish just to remove fine scratches and or to restore an older guitar's finish? Thanks Patrick

[@IamtheActionman]

Excellent

[@OBrienGuitars]

Try a car polish swirl remover product and do it by hand. You can do more damage than good if you take it to a buffing wheel and you don't have experience.

[@OBrienGuitars]

no, the finish has already been sprayed. This is just to get it to a high gloss

[@OBrienGuitars]

Why do you want to spray water over oil? If you decide to go this route I would let the oil dry completely and then seal it in with a coat of shellac. I don't understand your second question.

[@rosamaglio7014]

Great video. I use automotive 2 k urethane on all my guitars . Up until now I have polished all using an auto polisher with the 3 m step compound and polish . I built a polisher and my question is do you recommend me Switching to the block type Compound like you use here or would I still be good with the 3 m liquid?

[@OBrienGuitars]

If you are having good results with the 3M compound I would continue using it.

[@renanrf01]

which is the 1000 sandpaper in the uk?

[@vickikgibson9470]

This is great information which us used in many areas. Metal to high polish etc. Worked in many mediums. I am making a small harp and am using Tru oil. Do u have a way to hand polish to a high sheen for this oil? If so what compound would you use? My harp is too smsll for a big buffing wheel ...or small one for that matter:) Thank you! Love your information and skill!! Well done and well taught!

[@Satchmoeddie]

Is that a 1 1/4" dia. shaft on the buffer? . Thanks for the loose belt tip. Had not seen that one yet! Love it! I am having a lot of tools built. (BURGLARS got my old ones) The quality of what is commercially available is pretty awful unless you spend $6000 on a buffer. ($6K used)

[@phatthand]

So, do you think a 3450 rpm direct drive buffer is too fast? Why would that be sold at a major luthier supply house?

[@gymnoboi]

Is it possible to buff a Tru-Oil Finish ?

[@marcelocollacolla144]

Olá Robert qual a rotação ideal para esse sistema de polimento ? Obrigado

[@OBrienGuitars]

normalmente por volta de 800 RPM mas o meu é bem mais rápido.

[@KedaWoodDye]

Man I love that buffer brother! That is so clever, and one less station needed! Genius! Hey what compound do you finish with before swirl remover? Do you go with a wax on last stage, or stop at the white compound? I hand polish, but really want to start using the buffing wheels. The sealer looks awesome!

[@OBrienGuitars]

I usually stop with the Menzerna fine compound and then a swirl remover to clean the surface and get that showroom shine. There are many ways to do it though.

[@diegohernan82]

hi! great videos! i wanted to ask u about the thickness sander: i was wondering about the RPM of the drum spinning during the work, can u calculate it? Thanks!

[@DIYDSP]

wow, so many great tips per minute! thank you. BTW, at 7:04, when you switch to the extra fine compound, what grit do you use?

[@davepatrick4103]

I love all your videos. But please have a talk with your video editor and do you videos in full format. Thanks

[@OBrienGuitars]

I would go with his recommendation then.

[@IsaacOLEG]

Hello, can UV finishes build up somehow thick ? need a resin pump ? is the UV lamp very expensive ? Thanks. Isaac

[@OBrienGuitars]

Yes, UV finishes have a large solids content and if you are not careful you can get a finish too think in a hurry. I recommend doing some sample before spraying on your instrument. The lamp is getting cheaper and cheaper as the technology advances so it is possible to get a good rig for under US$2K these days

[@IsaacOLEG]

OBrienGuitars thanks, that helps. Imagine a piano, I will need 3, or. 4, is not it? You can spray vertical surfaces with the UV lacquer? Conventional gravity spray gun..? Thank you, that helps

[@OBrienGuitars]

You can use just the hand held unit for larger services but have more waving of the lamp to do. You can spray vertical services using a conventional gravity gun.

[@IsaacOLEG]

OBrienGuitars it harden almost instantly, if I understand well. It is a "one coat" job, or similar to polyester or other spraying? Off dust for all the time before hardening I guess. Thanks for your tips.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Isaac OLEG It does harden instantly. I have done entire guitars in a day before but I prefer to spread it out over 2 or 3 days. Depending on what you are spraying maybe one coat is enough. I Prefer two or three spray sessions. Remember, it is not how much you put on the surface but how much you leave on.

[@IgniteVids]

What kind of lacquer do you use?

[@cryglory]

is there anyway to get a decent job with a can spray and not a buffing wheel?

[@ricardogardunobarrientos5502]

Hello luthiers around the world. I am an student who is learning to obtain high gloss finish. I have a problem and I don't know how to solve it. Recently I obtained a buffing wheel and a Menzerna polish compound. In the moment to buff the guitar, the buffing wheel leaves residues of the polish paste strongly adhered to the varnish , and damages the varnish. Plase, I need your advice. Thank you

[@JosephHF]

+ricardo garduño barrientos I can't be sure, but in my ongoing experimentation this sounds like a problem with building up too much heat in the buffing process, likely due to too coarse a compound/too much pressure while buffing. I say that because In my test samples (I'm using CA glue for filling and clear coat), I can get a super-high gloss, highly mirrored finish, but there are small areas containing whitish specks that nothing can remove. They could have come during wet sanding, and somehow escaped my notice, but I don't think so. Does this sound like it could be the problem you are having?

[@OBrienGuitars]

not in the sense of high gloss lacquer. The layers are too thin. Some folks are doing it but I have never gotten good results this way.

[@edadpops1709]

Where did you sourse your shaft and pulley for this buffer thanks

[@OBrienGuitars]

I had that machine made in Brazil.

[@customdesignguitars]

Hi, how many rpm to buffing au guitar?

[@OBrienGuitars]

My buffer has 1700 but normally you want about 1000 or less.

[@shagnat]

I believe the product is supposed to cure for ~10-20 minutes. Might want to check that part out to see.

[@OBrienGuitars]

Which product are you referring to? I normally let my lacquer finishes cure 4 to 6 weeks and my cat finishes cure at least a week or so. My UV finishes are cured instantly with the UV wand.

[@shredftw]

VVVVEEEEEERRRRRRYYYYYYY good video!

[@OBrienGuitars]

I am not sure I understand your question. A complete high gloss finish can run in the hundreds of dollars.

[@uhcalabresse]

Thank you so much for your comments. I wet sanded, buffed about 10 times. I used car polish. She looks like a million bucks! I would never had tried to sand if I didn't see your video. I could kiss you, but I wouldn't want people talking!!!

[@carlrudd1858]

Hmm...now THAT is what I call a useful video. Thanks....

[@guegavioloesvioloes]

olha acho que é exatamente isso agora ja troquei na politriz estou usando um disco com flanelas tipo a que vc mostra no video na cor dourada e lixa tava usando da marca indasa sendo 2000 mais segundo o que falou se ela e P e por ser uma marca europeia imagino que não é exatamente uma 2000 ai passei a usar uma norton 1200 jet40l mesmo assin acho que a grana da lixa indasa é mais fina, rapz isso me tira o sono quem ver acha perfeito mais eu fico doente estou no nordeste de PE aqui tudo e dificil.

[@treatb09]

have u ever wet sanded with mineral spirits?

[@CordaSonoraAtelier]

=) Obrigado.

[@MrCharliejaera]

Chorinho gostoso no final, welcome to Minas!!

[@adrianmanning9084]

Hi , Great vid , only the sound is to low , no point in making the vid , please check the soung . thanks .