Lycanthropic Gestures - Fear and Maddening in Las Ravens

[@mercury3344]

Kat riding with the cerenovus madness and coming up with fake balloonist info to give out her actual information is insane. That's so skillful.

[@dirkgently31]

Cera: You are balloonist! Kat: Alright, here is a set of info from the world that is true and continues to narrow the focus on evil. I'm blown away by Kat this game. Awesome as always.

[@loganshort7334]

She's an incredible player. She absolutely bamboozled me in the game I was able to play with her.

[@kjinskipify]

Thank you! ❤

[@Moleoflands]

This game was essentially unwinnable for evil. Lycanthrope shut down the demon, and the minions weren't able to help out at all outside of the ceranovis getting Reznora to break madness. Feel like lycanthrope needs poisoner or an actual assassin to be in the game so evil have some counter play

[@q-tuber7034]

Level 1: Say you’re Cere-mad without saying you’re Cere-mad. Level 2: Say you know I’m Cere-mad without saying you know I’m Cere-mad.

[@therussianprincess7036]

The number of ridiculous role chains (i.e. philo-alchemist-assassin or cannibal-philo-lycanthrope) is astounding

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

imagine a canibal-philo-alchemist-[minion], probably the longets chain you can get?

[@Yoanka]

​@@shavranotheferanox7809 Edit: If you want an underlying role with abilities stacked on top of it, you can add Pixie to the start of the chain. If you allow a combo that makes you change your own token, it can get even crazier. The longest I could come up with is Damsel-Pixie-Cannibal-Philo-Alchemist-Pit Hag-Snake Charmer-[Demon, or Minion in a Lil Monsta game]. As far as I understand, this should work because pit-hagging changes your token, not your ability, unlike the Cannibal-[...]-Pit Hag part of the chain. It may even not take obnoxiously long, because those roles can chain well. Counting the time in the absolute best case: N1: You pull the Damsel token N1: The Huntsman yolo guesses you correctly N1: The ST visits you and tells you that you're the Pixie, then shows you the Cannibal (aiming to really reward Town for that gamble) D1: You are successfully mad about being the Cannibal D1: The Psychopath kills the real Cannibal before nominations - you gain the Cannibal ability through Pixie D1: Town executes the Philosopher and you gain their ability through the Cannibal N2: The ST visits you and you decide to gain the Alchemist ability through the Philosopher N2: The ST thinks you changed abilities too many times already, so let's allow the others to have a go - you gain the Pit Hag ability through the Alchemist N2: The ST visits you one more time and you pit-hag yourself into a Snake Charmer (the ST is internally screaming) - at this point your underlying role is no longer Pixie-Cannibal, so your ability is not affected by executions D2: You get to live another day; possibly backing down from the Cannibal double-claim to Snake Charmer N3: You correctly Snake Charm the demon and the ST tells you you are now the Goblin; the ST's screaming is no longer internal N3: The minions pass the Lil Monsta token to another evil player D3: The original Goblin comes out and claims to have been Snake Charmed, then names your 2 fellow evil players D3: The Town decides the former Snake Charmer may be holding the LM token, because the other 2 evils risk getting outed - the person you claimed Snake Charmer to last night nominates you D3: You take a lungful of air and claim Damsel-Pixie-Cannibal-Philo-Alchemist-Pit Hag-Snake Charmer-Goblin. Once the incredulous laughter around the circle dies down, the ST reitrates that you have claimed Goblin with extra steps and runs the vote. Most players vote, because that's either a hilarious bluff or an incredible situation. D3: The ST announces that you were executed and died, and the game is over. Congratulations Damsel, you just won with evil!

[@TrulySomeone]

@@shavranotheferanox7809 taking this from u/Brass_Soul on the BOTC subreddit: "I apprentice-cannibal-philo-pixie-alchemist-scarlet woman-fang gu jumped on you". AKA: A good *Apprentice* (Traveler) that starts with the *Cannibal* ability, who eats an executed *Philosopher* and chooses to gain the *Pixie* ability who then sees an Alchemist as the in-play Townsfolk and is successfully mad as the Alchemist (and the original alch dies during the day in any way that's not execution) so they gain the *Alchemist* ability and subsequently gain the *Scarlet Woman* minion ability, then the Fang Gu dies by execution and starpasses over to them who then ends up as the evil *Fang Gu* and they choose an outsider at night, dying and starpassing over to that outsider, thus allowing you to speak to that outsider and say the cursed phrase "I apprentice-cannibal-philo-pixie-alchemist-scarlet woman-fang gu jumped on you". if this ever happened in a real game that'd be a legit miracle considering all the moving parts and the ST specifically allowing these interactions. EDIT: this is likely impossible since a Traveler really can't be "mad" as anything since everyone knows what you are, but maybe in a Atheist game this would be possible as that'd also explain away giving a *GOOD* Apprentice-Cannibal-Philo-Pixie-Alchemist the Scarlet Woman ability. i'm just taking this too seriously but it's pretty fun to theory craft.

[@total_dk6517]

​@@shavranotheferanox7809 I think the longest possible with the current roles in the game (without including Amnesiac) is: Cannibal > Philosopher > Alchemist > (good) Pit Hag > (good) Scarlet Woman > (good) Demon > Farmer (Cannibal or Philosopher in any order) (Turn self into SW, demon dies, you become the demon, the farmer dies (from e.g. assassin), you become the farmer)

[@DasGanon]

56:29 ironically, those are actually correct balloonist pings.

[@OlaRozenfeld]

And I really admire that! Kat knows how to use her madness to convey her true knowledge in a different way.

[@Koosemose]

Milk and Kat's plays as ceremad were both great for different reasons. Also kats awoos when putting rez on the block were wonderful. edit: "That lines up with my balloonist pings, doesn't it?", that was perfect.

[@Silvergrooves42]

I'm laughing my ass off at the whole Milk sequence at 1:16:00 - he just HAS to keep rambling against Jacqui, and Ben is not even there to see it. Clear example of why it's called "madness" imho

[@AstroVee]

Absolutely obsessed with Ben hopping into Milk's chats on Day 4 and hearing him consistently reading off his "I am the Cannibal, and on Night One I ate Aggie and got the Philosopher ability, which I used to get a Seamstress ability and learned that Shade and Lyra are on different teams, then on Night 2..." it's so perfect, it sounds like a recording, and every person he tells it to is just listening and going "mhm, yeah..." while both of them fully know he's Cere'd. I can't explain why this was so hilarious to me, but it absolutely was.

[@verdiss7487]

Mentioned early in this video: the philo village idiot interaction seems like it should be adjusted. The philo village idiot always knows they are sober (insofar as they are a village idiot, they can always be droisoned from another source but so can anyone) so the drawback/caveat of the powerful village idiot ability is completely avoided. It just makes going village idiot the objectively strongest choice whenever it's on a script with philo. I would definitely like to see a jinx where the philo village idiot might move the idiot-drunkening, potentially to themselves.

[@codewordbw3340]

Idk if there necessarily needs to be something done about it. The strong ability for that to happen just means that an evil team who claims to be a Philo village idiot can spread false info in a very similar way. So while it is strong for the good team, it's also similarly very strong as a bluff for the evil team

[@somecallmetim4490]

I've seen at least one story teller make the philosopher the drunk idiot when another is in play.

[@quetuo3908]

@@somecallmetim4490 the thing is, that is literally against the rules as the game currently works. Philo becoming VI has no jinx about moving the drunkeness, so while they do drunk one of the other sober village idiots, they themselves are NEVER drunk (from the VI ability, anyway) rules as written currently

[@bloodspatteredguitar]

I don't think it's necessarily that bad. Like any play, the Philosopher gets good info at the expense of those already in play. If 2/3 VIs consistently agree, is that because they are sober or because the philo has messed with them. Is the philo even real? There are enough questions to make it worth while.

[@SharienGaming]

first off - objectively strongest? nah mate, not at all... theres still stuff like poppy grower or alchemist for example... and in for example a vortox game the fortune teller and town crier are insanely powerful (both have easily reversible information that also can somewhat act to detect a vortox being in play) duplicating an artist can be similarily powerful depending on the gamestate, simply because the information you get is completely determined by the player and secondly - the philo doesnt need a jinx there... they already guarantee that one more of the VIs is drunk... that means that they dont actually generate more information for town...they just change who generates the accurate information at the cost of generating more misinformation there it can be a really good option though, if they believe that the sober VI in a pair is already dead when they take the ability (or when they believe VI is an evil bluff)

[@lilaroseg]

poor jacqui couldn’t catch a break lol

[@analuizafelixdesouza6336]

Me and my mom were just looking for a video to watch, this came out just at the perfect time!!

[@masterjbt]

ah yes the beorge game

[@evelinepieternella8088]

This was such a cool game with so many wacky interactions! I really love how this group plays. I will say however that the lycanthrope felt way to overpowered in this configuration. The Ojo didn't even know his kills weren't going through half of the game and there was very little the minions could do to help.

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

Ahh the olllll philycannibal play. It’s classic

[@ri5203]

This video solidified by hatred of the lycanthrope

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The Lycanthrope loves you Ri. - Ben

[@ri5203]

@@BloodontheClocktower love you too lycan, you're just too op☹️

[@darrenjacobson7456]

Wait, Tesco sold horse meat! *googles* holy crap! and that was only a decade ago! And it wasn't just Tesco!

[@Nikki_30]

Yeah it was a massive scandal… all over the news!

[@siddharthdas3417]

WOOH, already looking forward to it.

[@Klondike1000]

Sam solving the game halfway through was awesome. So many confirmation chains was great, and I was rooting for the good team from the beginning. Great game as always!

[@Ecl1psed276]

How did they distinguish the demon between Lyra and George at the end?

[@Frostbite08]

I think it was because in Lyra's defense, she seemed very sure that Ryan wasn't a Barber that had hid the entire game, he was Cerenovus mad. Which makes her look like the Cerenovus.

[@Pauavi]

I think what really pushed them in that direction was Milk saying he believes Lyra is less likely to be the Demon based on her backing out of a claim earlier in the game and also Lyra's hypothesis on the evil team "I think Rez, Ryan, and Milk is the exact evil team" - these three players are pretty much confirmed good (Sam's SC picks and Shade's fake-but-true VI info), so I suppose Town's train of thought is that if Lyra is the Demon, her fake evil team would include someone who is actually suspicious (in this case, George, because Town is gunning for either George or Lyra) in order to get the heat off of her and onto a Minion/scapegoat, BUT because she did not include George in her fake evil team, she must be protecting him because he is the Demon. I am not a veteran player at all, just trying to connect the dots from veteran players' POV. Maybe someone else has a better idea

[@nelsonyiap81]

Lycan is broken

[@segevstormlord3713]

If the Fearmonger's victim is also Cerenovus-mad, and breaks madness, but the Storyteller doesn't execute immediately, I understand he can execute any time before the close of day. If the Fearmonger nominates his victim, would the Storyteller choosing to execute the target for violating madness count as "nominate & execute" and win the game for Evil?

[@Dr.Death8520]

As far as I understand it, being a storyteller is making the game fair/fun and lasting to the final day where possible. Deliberately holding off and triggering it after fear nom would be cheap. Also the madness execution is not a result of the fearmonger's nomination. The fearmonger hasn't got them executed, the storyteller has.

[@Dr.Death8520]

"If the Fearmonger nominates their chosen player, and that nomination results in their execution, the chosen player loses, their team loses, and the game ends." Yep, it needs to be as a result of the nomination, not something else.

[@ChristopherFawbert]

Well done good team.. combination of the Aggie, Kat confirmation, Alongside Res top lycanthropes picks and Sam playing a good snake charmer picking good players, evil were on a hiding to nothing

[@jeffe2267]

Aggie is literally always eating.

[@SimonMoon5]

My thoughts on the village idiot: Any game where only two or three people are claiming village idiot? Kill them all, they must all be evil. In any game with village idiot on the script, evil will usually bluff as village idiot. So, you could have up to six people claiming village idiot (three evils and three idiots). If you don't have that many, then that's a sign that *only* evil people are claiming village idiot. Unless of course, evil chooses to bluff as something else, but I haven't seen that happen yet.

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

I kind of hate that the fun way to play cerenovis is almost always less effective than the boring/frustrating way. Although I think it was compounded this game by most people being either in trust chains or just open and truthful about their role because they believed the lycanthrope was in play. I kinda wonder if it would be fun to house rule the cere to allow them to make two people mad if neither was picked the previous night. Or if that would just be absolute chaos 🤔

[@Saborabi]

Lyncanthrope is very strong character. Maybe it should have a debuff such as "adding one evil townsfolk"

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

i have no idea how to make custom scripts or anything, i dont even have the game (yet!), but i had an idea for a script and i kinda want feedback if its a good one: name: High society townsfolk: chef stewart knight noble mayor soldier courtier minstrel fool king choirboy general high priestess huntsman outsiders: butler moonchild damsel politician minions: baron vizier witch mezepholese demons: al-hadikhia leviathan riot

[@acenomadic]

A few things that come up on first glance though are that you probably want to switch out Courtier, Minstrel, and Soldier. They don't play well at all with the evils you have in this script. Fool is rough on Leviathan, but is functionally able to play as a better Virgin on the script which I think balanced out well enough

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

@@acenomadic thank you, i basically tried to find evrything that either sounded like high classed charecters, or charecters that would "serve" high classed charecters (like the chef and butler) any sugestions what i could swap those out with so it still has the same theme, but better balanced charecters?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

This video is a quick guide to making balanced scripts, timestamped at the right time to start watching. - Ben kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnm8mJicbrl7adk

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

@@BloodontheClocktower thank you very much!

[@shavranotheferanox7809]

i changed some things around and completely changed which demons there where, since i dont want to type everything out ill paste the JSON file, hope it works: [{"id":"_meta","author":"shavrano","name":"High Society"},"steward","knight","noble","chef","high_priestess","general","king","courtier","huntsman","soldier","fool","choirboy","mayor","butler","damsel","moonchild","politician","godfather","devils_advocate","baron","vizier","vigormortis","legion","fang_gu","djinn"]

[@Wilsontripplets]

What happens if a cannibal eats a snake charmer and chooses the demon and someone else is executed what happens?

[@mmrow1634]

Cannibal-Snake Charmer who chose Demon has become Demon; Demon has become Cannibal and is drunk and has no effective ability.

[@whitetornadodk]

Can someone explain to me why the Ojo didn't just kill the Lycanthrope?

[@mmrow1634]

Lycanthrope choosing and killing a Good player blocks all other deaths.

[@yitzchokbraunfeld8333]

Why/how did Alex lose his ability? I somehow missed it

[@nickburose8286]

The reminder token is for the fibbin ability which is once per game

[@DJDarkDarsi]

Borge is one of my Favourite Clocktowerers

[@kiwiSid]

Couldn't Lyra have gone self Cere mad in final 4 and really hope ST backs her up?

[@AnthropoidEntity]

It's not a fun way for the game to end, so there's no chance any decent ST would

[@kiwiSid]

I mean I've seen Ben always argue that given that the cere made it to final 4 they kind of deserve it

[@acenomadic]

I don't think I've actually seen him let an evil player use the Cerenovus ability to win. It feels a bit too cheap, a good player sure, they should have known better, but it's too easy to get a Cerenovus to the end of the game.

[@DasGanon]

I think the out might be if there was an asterisk on Cerenovus, which is that if it was "Might be Executed and might die". If you did it that way then madness executions would still end the day but wouldn't necessarily punish the good team with a game over condition.

[@Moleoflands]

​@@DasGanonThat seems like a happy medium point. Back evil, allowing them to punish town passivity by not trying to win before final 3, but not giving Evil a cheesy win button.

[@Lamadon_Pyreus]

Oof. People die when they are killed.

[@emccafferty8965]

Can we make a character that is its own solo team. They live they win. Only them. Not good or evil. Just a loner.

[@RasmusVJS]

I don't think that mechanically that works. You could maybe make an Outsider where whether they're on the winning or losing team is purely dependent on if they survive or not, but the win conditions for Evil and Good are the same. But BotC doesn't have Neutral roles, one of the two teams always wins.

[@DasGanon]

That's a politician with extra steps.

[@chrissmith-kr2oz]

as DasGanon says, that's kinda a politician, but they would never make a character like that because its against their philosophy. A major design philosophy of BOTC has always been that even if you are dead you matter as a player. Both socially and with the one ghost vote that almost always gets saved for the last possible moment. The one time I have seen something similar however is in a game ran by Patters on his channel, he had a atheist game where if three players made it to the final three they would get a "premium plus victory". Which incentivized them to stay alive and lie just to survive.

[@Kings_Quest]

1:02:35 😂😂😂

[@mikepictor]

Don't use the cards more. Ideally don't use them at all! The prrivate chats are efficient, but they aren't fun, and you have people watching these videos for entertainment. Private chats ae entertaining

[@DasGanon]

Yeah, maybe use them for those nights where it's like "Look this is the most suspicious legion game beginning ever" with nights that last half an hour at startup (I mean you do try to schedule things on stream, however well that works) but the chats are what make it better

[@Pauavi]

I actually find the cards to be useful because ST can respond to chat's questions (game-related or not)

[@Ellie-rx3jt]

The cards also make it much easier to miss things happening in the night if you're just listening to audio rather than watching. Which sucks because these 1-2hr videos are great to listen to while working or driving.

[@DasGanon]

​@@Ellie-rx3jtyeah even live chat had this problem, there was a ton of "but did the demon get bluffs‽" comments.

[@TheKatti5000]

I agree! The cards are more efficient, sure, but the people who watch these streams want to see the interactions between the ST and the players. You can display the card function every now and then in order to show off what the app is capable of, but the viewers love seeing the players' live reactions. Especially with things like Evil team info! All the "oh geez, so *this* person is my Demon, this is gonna be something else" reactions are always hilarious and so entertaining.