Seeburg DS 160 Jukebox Repair Recapping The Tormat Selector Unit - Complete Mess

[@LyonsArcade]

One of Ron Rich's books we're using to help repair this machine: amzn.to/3aeFoNf Anything (a pencil, a house) you buy on Amazon after visiting that link gives us a small royalty for sending you there, thank you for your support!

[@Dark_eVader]

Lost sound at 30:04 - 32:01 so I have no idea what you were talking about then hehe. Edit: Never mind replying to this. I just saw your reply in another comment. Dang KZbin copyright!

[@KingsCountyLightHaus]

Rehabbing these old machines is doing a real service to the preservation of our cultural history. Thank you.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks, we appreciate the kind words, we'll keep fixing them :)

[@Asriazh]

I didn't see an answer to this yet, I just saw "get rid of the selemium", but that stacked thing in the middle where You didn't know what it was, is a selemium rectifier. It might be perfectly ok, but I wouldn't trust it too much. That really old vintage stuff looks so cool! Thanks for showing it to us!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you for watching Asriazh, we appreciate you checking the video out :)

[@kelboswell]

The first one I ever did was a 1955 model. The first stereo model :) I recapped the Tormat, and thought I had it working. Strange problem, though. If you waited longer than 8 seconds to make a selection, the Tormat would scan twice, stop, and refuse to take selections unless the box was turned off for a half hour. I had missed a capacitor. That problem drove me INSANE!

[@stevesmusic1862]

I like listening to the voice of reason in the times of craziness!! Thanks!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks Steve, we appreciate that :) See you on the next video, the Mighty Mrs. Pac-Man is coming up Friday :)

[@blacksiddha]

Excellent pair of videos. I have a Seeburg STD3 Jukebox which I will be renovating in the near future and I was reluctant because of the Tormat. I have noted the books and will get them prior to it. have the manuals already...Thanks from New Zealand

[@LyonsArcade]

Very good Richard, you'll get it going. It's a mess in there though :) Let us know how it turns out, and thanks for watching in New Zealand!

[@djsherz]

A few folks on here have mentioned the selenium rectifier - yep it's good practice to swap 'em out for modern silicon. Just bear in mind that modern diodes don't have as much voltage drop across them, so if you swap it out, the rectified voltage will be higher than it was originally. You may need to add a series resistor to keep things in check.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you dj I appreciate the information! We will be doing the amp pretty soon...

[@djsherz]

@@LyonsArcade And just to keep me on my toes, I've just had a Seeburg AY160 land at the shop for repair, pretty much identical to that one you were working on. Apart from about 3 electrolytics that appear to have been replaced in the 80s, it looks like it's never been touched. Faulty amp, and the selection system has stopped working. Looks like I'm going to have a big recapping job of my own to do over the next few days - damn that looks like a pig of a job!

[@Sunsetdrivein]

At 25:13 that gray unit is a selenium rectifier. They can suddenly die without warning and emit noxious gas! The "OA2" tubes are voltage regulators. Think of them as the tube version of zener diodes. The "2050" tubes are what controls selections and they fail all the time (get weak). Not all tube testers will test them.

[@ovalteen4404]

I just looked up the OA2's myself :) It says they should be outputting 150V +/- 2V depending on current draw.

[@Sunsetdrivein]

@@misterhat5823 Selenium rectifiers make such a nice sound when they hit the bottom of the garbage can. ;)

[@LyonsArcade]

I bought some new ones to swap in, it seems to be up and selecting good so we'll move onto the amp next, might have to go back and replace that rectifier.

[@Dark_eVader]

I was looking if someone mentioned the selenium rectifier. Good thing my memory still serves me at times.

[@sideburn]

I learned the resistor color code as a kid I the 80’s with: “Better Be Right Or Your Great Big Venture Goes Wrong” (brown, black, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, gray, white).

[@LyonsArcade]

I always do the stuff on my desk and have a little cheater chart :)

[@sideburn]

Joe's Classic Video Games yeah. Convenient. I’ve got one too. Then you don’t have to count on your fingers 😆

[@danijelcar5184]

Nice Seeburg great work Whee had no internet connection big crysis here in my country Croatia was big masive earthquake in Zagreb City on sunday big panic was here and corona virus also ....

[@LyonsArcade]

Well Danijel I'm glad you made it through and made it back online! Thank you for watching, stay safe over there!

[@danijelcar5184]

@@LyonsArcade Thanks I Appreciate !👍

[@maccustoms2295]

Awesome repair. Gotta love that 1960s electrical work lol.

[@LyonsArcade]

Yeah it's really cool stuff :)

[@AiMR]

Joe, I believe that connection between the amp and TSU is to mute audio until a record is cued up.

[@LyonsArcade]

That would make sense, I think Ken said it was some voltage jumping over to run the amp so one or the other!

[@FreezerBurn.]

Still cleaner and more organized than my 15 year olds bedroom.

[@LyonsArcade]

LOL That's a good point!

[@x-crisis]

That thing really shines once the lights go down.

[@LyonsArcade]

It's a very nice looking box!

[@Natures_Intentions]

It even still has the original silinoum rectifier. Cool video's. The component you pointed at and said you didn't know what it was. Is the silinoum rectifier.

[@LyonsArcade]

Well then now I know , thanks!

[@MoparStephen]

selenium rectifier

[@jakewilkes7610]

Fair warning they let out some nasty smoke when they die.

[@projectpat006]

Man that jukebox has a mean set of monoblocks on the amplifier. Whoever owns this is in for some great analog sound

[@ChungWookie74]

Thanks for the video. I just acquired a DS 160 last week through a family member. It's been in storage for a very long time. It grabs a record and tries to play it, but record does not line up properly and gets rejected. Otherwise, everything seems to be working well.

[@LyonsArcade]

You need to get that book about Seeburg repair I mentioned in the first video, Ron Rich's guide to Seeburg's it shows you how to fix all that stuff on these....

[@ChungWookie74]

@@LyonsArcade Thank you. Will do

[@EsotericArctos]

Don't worry about the bakelite base being a little loose. Heat causes that. If the getter compound has turned white, that is an instant throw away. Tubes are pretty robust, as long as it wasn't abused, the tubes should be fine. Given it was mostly working, I would be looking at caps first. Resistors should be fine, but worth testing a few to be sure. It does look like a few caps have been replaced in the past. I would be replacing all the electrolytics though regardless. Ceramic caps rarely give trouble, so it is very likely they were still fine. The orange drops were likely original. Most likely still good too. Was that a Selenium rectifier I saw in there as well (the thing with all the metal fins)? That may be worth changing out for modern diodes too. Selenium rectifiers can be nasty when they fail, sometimes emitting toxic fumes. Point to point wiring is fun to work with :). You will have a lot of work ahead recapping everything.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks Brendan, we don't have too much left to cap outside of the amp so we'll get there :) We'll make sure to film it, but without film, so everybody can see it :) Thanks for watching, see you on the next video!

[@EsotericArctos]

@@LyonsArcade Make sure you look into replacing that selenium rectifier with normal silicon diodes too. Selenium rectifiers deteriorate over time and it may already be out of spec, and when they fail they do release nasty fumes and also tend to blow up transformers 🙂

[@joehorecny7835]

Ill bet she had issues with it, and the easiest route was printing the label "Press number, then Letter" rather than getting it fixed. Good Job!!!

[@LyonsArcade]

I definitely think that's what happened. We've got that part fixed at least, on to the rest of it :) Thanks for watching Joe!

[@cliffburridge]

Excellent! New vid day! 😎 Hoping you are safe over there, bud!

[@LyonsArcade]

We're doing good, I don't get near people anyways, LOL As long as they stay on that side of the counter nobody gets injured :)

[@brianoconnell6459]

While not in the same category, I have a Philco AM radio/turntable from 1948. And upon opening it, while the tubes work fine, all the pots, tuner, etc work (not the turntable yet), I saw the old school rats nest style of circuitry. I guess in those days "UL" meant "U Lucky to still be alive.".

[@LyonsArcade]

Yeah it's pretty wild, that's why they had all those only should be opened by a serviceman labels, probably had hundreds of people murdered by these things over the years!

[@Sunsetdrivein]

That type of wiring is called "point-to-point" wiring. This is the way all electronic things were made in the days before printed circuit boards. Wait till you recap the amplifier in that thing. You're in for a lot of cussing.

[@Ajaxaxxess]

you know a thing or 5 about this type of stuff dont you :)

[@LyonsArcade]

Ken knows his stuff :) He's worked on this stuff for quite a long time and gives out a lot of info on repair at www.KLOV.com .

[@Ajaxaxxess]

Oh i know. Ive been reading this mans posts for years.

[@dfguko]

Nope it's called insane solution 😂

[@JohnKiniston]

Holy cow, I didn't realize how big your store is until watching you walk around in this video with the lights off. Have you ever done a full tour?

[@LyonsArcade]

That's only half of it :)

[@JohnKiniston]

@@LyonsArcade I love the videos you make man, I hope you keep em coming for a long time.

[@AiMR]

Bernadette, the great James Jamerson on bass!

[@LyonsArcade]

He was amazing. I'm listening to him right now Ironically :) "The Same Old Song" is playing on the radio!

[@jamesm90]

Well that was complicated but very interesting!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks for watching James, it's a pretty severe setup :)

[@EyeMWing]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah I'd have taken exactly one look at that, grabbed the schematic and started down the road of making a PCB for it.

[@LyonsArcade]

That would definitely work, but it would be a LOT of work too! Thank you for watching EyeMWing!

[@DankNoodles420]

When you started talking about the tubes and saying that you didnt have a tester and whatnot made me start sweating. I was thinking oh god please dont assume that just because they are lit means they are good lol

[@LyonsArcade]

Oh if only you were here DankNoodles420 we wouldn't have to worry about the tubes, you seem to know all about them

[@DankNoodles420]

@@LyonsArcade i wouldn't say that haha. Btw is there a video of the amplifier rebuild for this? Cant seem to find.

[@stphinkle]

You may want to replace the selenium rectifier and modify the 6X4 to use a silicon diode. 6X4s are known to short transformers. Replacement transformers for that model are scarce and expensive.

[@robj7481]

I’ve worked on a couple of jukeboxes. I’m not a big fan, but I do admire some of the clever things designed into them, like putting an incandescent lightbulb in series with the motor so if the motor shorts, the light will come on. But YIKES, not my kind of repair. Can you pick up one of the old Thrifty-type tube testers in surplus?

[@LyonsArcade]

Yes I can get one of those testers but as I understand it they only test the filament. Which is useless because the amp tests the filament

[@robj7481]

Joe's Classic Video Games, I used to use the Thrifty tester to fix my parents’ televisions and as I recall, the analog meter does check tube function. A tube is nothing more than a single over-sized transistor and when you plugged the tube into the tester, you’d push a button and the analog meter would move a certain distance. If the meter didn’t move at all or not enough, then the tube was proven not to be functional.

[@pezjohnson]

microfarad. LOL. Great job and thanks for filming both parts.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks for watching Pez, we're still working through it. Have to do the amp, might have to tinker with the mechanism, have to clean it up, etc. We did put new tubes in the selector though.

[@moodyga40]

0A2 is a voltage regulator 6X4 is a full wave rectifier

[@Pinman1973]

Those amps are pretty easy to fix. Try Wurlitzer 1700/1800 amp , those are a nightmare.

[@arcadefussell3185]

That old technology is really intimidating to work on. Not sure if my patience is up to the challenge.

[@LyonsArcade]

You have to just set aside a bunch of time to be able to mess with it.... Man I'm working on a PONG PCB right now and it's driving me crazy, want to talk about a pain. Pong has problems designed into the board, like the paddles don't go all the way to the top, the screen isn't centered, etc. so I'm trying to fix all of that stuff, and it's actually designed that way! Now THAT's a pain.

[@moodyga40]

that selenium rectifier should go too it will mess up your currents

[@memyopinionsche6610]

If you had a tiny ferret for a pet What would you call it? A microferret.

[@LyonsArcade]

No, you'd call it a Mu Farad

[@Sunsetdrivein]

At 4:30 the four pin connector provides filament voltage to the amplifier. The amplifier's own power transformer did NOT provide filament voltage to it's tubes. It relied on that voltage coming from the transformer on the Tormat TSU7 unit.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks Ken, that makes sense!

[@MattMcIrvin]

I remember when there were tube testers in every drug store, with a big cartoon logo that said "TV SICK?" Don't know if the testers were any good.

[@LyonsArcade]

I don't know enough about it to be sure, I've heard the more simple ones just test the filament, and that the nice ones test other things... but it could be that the filament being strong is a good indicator of the tube still being effective, I don't know for sure...

[@MattMcIrvin]

Ha, ha, this is the one I remember: www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=186796

[@MattMcIrvin]

@@LyonsArcade There was an old sitcom joke: "The TV repairman came... He said the problem was just a tube." "What a relief!" "The picture tube." WOMP WOMP WAH WAAAAAHHHHH

[@W4iteFlame]

Some parts of a video is completely muted...is it because of music?

[@LyonsArcade]

Yes KZbin didn't like me playing the Beach Boys for free

[@W4iteFlame]

only magician can work with this without a scheme...it seems

[@LyonsArcade]

It all makes sense you just have to go through it really slow and triple check everything.

[@robertisrael338]

What a beautiful machine

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you Robert, it is very nice :)

[@fltmedic469]

Jolly good show kind sir! I have the same box that I have recapped all of the electronics and it still missed certain ones and plays the wrong ones sometimes I am still troubleshooting. Love your strategic way of troubleshooting.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks D, we're trying to get it going :) We tracked it down (after this video) to ONLY the "L" selections mess up. Everything else plays perfect, I think it may be a problem with a dirty jack on the selector but I'm going to keep messing with it :) Thanks for watching, we appreciate it!

[@jimbailey5655]

EXCELLENT .. THANKS !!

[@6581punk]

Janet's music and game room. Who's Janet?

[@LyonsArcade]

We talked about her in the first video, she's the lady we bought the jukebox from.

[@6581punk]

@@LyonsArcade Ah, I must have missed that. Seeburg is a name I have heard before, they did background music systems for workplaces, covered in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpymeatplNuob68

[@projectpat006]

How much for the Super Famicom?

[@brand-x7049]

Is the sound from 30:07 to 32:10 muted intentionally?

[@LyonsArcade]

Yes, KZbin copyright strike'd the song out of the video.

[@brand-x7049]

@@LyonsArcade fascist bastidges... ~:L

[@georgeprice4212]

Blame UMG, which now owns Capitol Records.

[@Lightning666]

25:13 FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_rectifier

[@LyonsArcade]

WOW!!!!! THANK YOU FOR THE LINK

[@simonmanners4108]

I am so sorry for being late. Not only did I watch the wrong video I also commented on the wrong video. I tell you though by posting how wrong I was on on the wrong video I did create quite a stir. Professional commenters had no response to my wrong assumptions, they where baffled and flummoxed by my admissions of wrongness. It felt strangely satisfying (is that wrong?).

[@LyonsArcade]

I think you may even be in the wrong country!

[@simonmanners4108]

Joe's Classic Video Games I often wonder about that but my dog assures me (I think it’s my dog) that I am where I am supposed to be (I would never be so presumptuous to say that word (you know the one, the opposite of wrong)). Stay safe in Arrmerrika friends!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks Simon we appreciate you watching!

[@pilotkid2011]

When will you get a Patreon?

[@LyonsArcade]

We likely won't get one, we're a business so we don't really want people to donate their money to us, if people would like to donate parts we appreciate that and accept those, and also if people click our amazon links it alerts amazon to send us a referral fee for anything they buy while on Amazon.... we may do merchandise in the future but we'd like to get some creative stuff instead of just the usual T-shirts and hats, we'd like to have screwdrivers with our logo on it, and things like that, that would be a little different.

[@HebaruSan]

Do you ever contemplate the Ship of Theseus while replacing components on these old systems?

[@LyonsArcade]

I just had to google that :) It's a good question, but in general I want them to be fully functional.... also these games and machines have a history of being operated and worked on in the past.... so what I do to them isn't necessarily reinventing the wheel I'm just doing what operators have done for a long time. So for instance on this one, I replaced capacitors, but if you look most of the ones I replaced had already been replaced once before by an operator trying to keep it functional 20 or 30 years ago. The tubes have probably been swapped out a few times.... and with the exception of that most everything else in the machine is the original parts. So I'm not too concerned with whether it's all original, I'd rather it work as close to it worked when it was being operated back in the day. I don't go out of my way to replace stuff that doesn't need it (with the exception of capacitors I'm unsure of), but the main reason I don't is because it likely still works fine and it's less expensive to not replace it.

[@strictly45s6]

Hello, in this model, does anyone know where the coin mechaninism connector connects to???

[@markhod1960]

I would chance that seldium rectifier out

[@MoparStephen]

selenium rectifier

[@LyonsArcade]

I know the channel is getting big when I have people correcting the people that are correcting me :)

[@dfguko]

Fixing the mess or or from the schematics you can design and make a pcb but that's not how you solving the problem. 😉

[@LyonsArcade]

That's true, it could all be redone on a pcb :)

[@memyopinionsche6610]

All the training I have is. Put my hands on my hips and say Yep! It's not working. Can I fix it? Put my hands on my hips and say Nope. I can make it worse. I am really good at that. That's my expertise.

[@LyonsArcade]

You might surprise yourself, look how everybody's convinced I don't know what I'm doing but yet I eventually fix almost everything I mess with! You're probably better than you think you are :)

[@DeadKoby]

I work on tube gear. If I can be of assistance, please let me know.

[@LyonsArcade]

Thanks Koby we appreciate the offer, if we need anything we'll let you know!

[@katilynnschwab2485]

Just then arcade classic joe turns off the lights

[@thornmountain8129]

Ahh the bad old days when electronics were vomited into a system without any care for the poor tech who had to solve the puzzle. LOL

[@LyonsArcade]

I takes awhile , LOL

[@moodyga40]

that's what we call rat nest construction

[@danielsimpkins9662]

A whole mess of audio was cut out of the video, jus so you know.

[@LyonsArcade]

Yeah they didn't like me playing the Beach Boys for free, LOL

[@dfguko]

Russians made with this obsolete technology even in the 80's some electronic devices. Hahaha

[@LyonsArcade]

I've seen some of that stuff before, pretty interesting :)

[@dfguko]

@@LyonsArcade Why the Soviet union don't made PC computers in the 80's? Because it would not pass through the factory gate. 😂

[@PaintHerWhite]

Less susceptible to EMP

[@JohnBond-m4t]

Just please don't play B-17

[@LyonsArcade]

Haha