M Disc Blu Ray Data Backup / Archiving: A Shopping List To Get Started

[@SeminarChauffeur]

Just found out that I'm gonna live forever, and I was thinking how am I gonna rewatch all of my favorite shows and movies again in the very distant future. So thank you for showing me how to get started in building my grand eternal archive! 😆

[@danielontech]

haha

[@knerduno5942]

But since the M-DISC reader/writer uses Flash memory to know how to function, what will you do when the memory fails after around 30 years?

[@thomase13]

@@knerduno5942If that’s really true, then buy a new drive?

[@cali4tune]

M disc seems to me to be the only real long term storage that is viable for us normal people.

[@danielontech]

As far as I can tell .. .that's about right!

[@teddlear970]

I do think you need to tell everyone that Blu Ray's play only in a Blu Ray player not the standard DVD player. However the M-disc Standard DVD 4.7 disc will play in all standard DVD players. Thanks for your comments

[@SilverSoulxd]

Very informative and useful video, thanks.

[@chiangui24]

I started using these recently. Right now I’m transferring older dvd-r and cd-r discs that I’ve been storing over the years. Pretty much all of them fit onto one disc which is great. I’m using the 100gb BDXL discs

[@modbox9560]

I have lots of 20+ yr old DVD and CDR scratched discs that can still read so I'm sure regular bd should be fine

[@tomekichiyamamoto2177]

For me, the big stop was the only one blank disk maker… M-disc capable optical units are easier to find than the disks themselves… I was very interested in it thought… But I had to start my backups on regular Blu-ray Discs. At least, optical discs aren’t weak to magnetic perturbations, for what I know. 🤷

[@danielontech]

Haha. My Blu Ray burner broke down lately and I replaced it with 2 for exactly this reason (the second one is basic). I will have three once the internal SATA one comes. 3 provides one backup for 2 which provides one layer of redundancy. If you think about this for too long, you'll go crazy!

[@ucmRich]

hey pal your new channel is pretty good! I hope you keep making videos, you seem like a good guy :-)

[@ucmRich]

also you dont have to say excuse your language if you say 'B S' ;-)

[@danielontech]

thanks for checking it out!

[@Kennephone]

I like M-disc, but it's too expensive for me, I have a 4k camcorder that takes about 750MB/min, About 1TB of 100% legally downloaded movies/TV, 2.5TB of downloaded youtube channels, and another couple TB of random stuff. I do, however doubt the 1000 year lifespan, just cause the data layer is in stone doesn't mean the rest of it can't separate, but I can assure you they probably do last a hell of a lot longer than regular BD-Rs.

[@thomase13]

The plastic is definitely the weak link, but it’s supposed to last 1,000 years. The data layer is supposed to last 10,000!

[@joeglennaz]

Oh my I just threw away about 100 jewel cases I thought I would never use they were all slimline

[@cali4tune]

I was around for some of the first CD burners and if I recall we used to pay ~$10 for a blank CD. At the time you had to make an image of the data you wanted to burn and then it was "all at once" (no multi-session). At some point in time I did run into problems with discs that had been written on with some kind of permanent marker. So it is a real thing but I don't recall if there were specific disc or marker types that would cause the problem. It did appear to be a chemical reaction over time with the ink/media. As I understand it CD/DVD "Safe" markers use water based inks. Better safe than sorry. NGL for many years I just never labeled the actual CD just the jewel box for this very reason. As for sticking labels on the disc I think that is asking for trouble. It certainly will unbalance the disc but centrifugal force is probably great enough that something that light doesn't matter much but could cause other unexpected issues. I would worry most about the glue interacting with the media over many years. I got rid of all my jewel boxes long ago because they take up way too much space. I use Disc Sox to store the disk and any paper label that was in the jewel box. You can store maybe 4-5 CD's in space 1 jewel box takes up. Find them at amazon and all the usual suspects. mmdesign.com/

[@knerduno5942]

There is an documentary titled "Digital Amnesia" in which they interview some archivists saying that after only one year, they saw signs of CDs degrading despite all the claims of "forever." It is available on here.

[@cali4tune]

yes CD's are known to not be stable over the long term and often even the shorterm in the case of CD-R. This is why M Disc is so interesting IMO.@@knerduno5942

[@ChristopheVerdonck]

Expensive €55 for 25 disc's is a bargain. Here in Europe (if i shop in the German amazon, let alone if i would do order in my country) M-disc's are about € 4.5 to € 5 per 25GB disc, so a bit to expensive. Buying an LTO tape drive + tapes would be more economical in our case. (less convenant, but allot more affordable)

[@mr.anderson646]

Hello, I'm trying to find a burner with the features of this one but for a MacBook Air. I can't seem to find a reputable one anywhere.

[@servus_incognitus]

I was thinking of using this for storing my PDF libraries, but if in understanding this right, you can't edit the files once you write them on the disk, is that right?

[@zomalfa4363]

The music video for Alt J dead crush, they had Sylex glass discs! Maybe its a clue big shots in the music industry have been using it a long time. And if you can get discs that spin and make that cool sound like they did, I can't understand wanting to use anything else.

[@bsanchez3563]

Subscribed for this as it hekps clarify a lot.. also does any internet connection or even a pc for that matter with windows 10 vs just a standalone dvd recorder that if still sold the dvd version of mdisc will be compatibke with? Or does a pc always have to be used... for backing up by using the usb cable that is built in [more specifically that of a HDR-CX240 sony camcorder]? This is mostly due to also having a need to back up a vhs tape of home movies from my own childhood but also to maintain is my assumption‐ unless if there is no way to ultimately play on any even if not a standalone cd player for in case of finding on beyond whatvis in an automobiles stereo.. but like indoors use on any optical disc player at least bacjwards compatible for playing bacj on any family event that may only entail having onhand a dvd player vs a blu ray or uhd/4k blu ray or even a DirectXbox console/ps2 or a Xbox 360/Xbox one or some game console in general for that is likely going to be the only way in the future I predict unfortunately people will HAVE to play a movie in physical form on..

[@jglg7238]

the problem is, Blu-ray blank discs are still expensive especially 50-100GB discs, you can get a hard drive cheaper

[@danielontech]

True. But the advantage of optical media over HDD is generally considered to be permanence or (for certain use cases) immutability.

[@liameneuk]

Is the M-Disc no longer in development? Notice that BD quad-layer is now a thing which supports 128GB but M-Disc offers no update.

[@asus_gamer9219]

I have recently gone in to the rabbit hole of m-discs and long term storage. I have used normal verbatim blurays for most of my data back up but I have recently gotten some m-discs for more important data. I wonder if there actually is a difference between normal verbatim blurays and the verbatim m-discs or if it's really just a marketing thing. I am really interested in m-disc but sadly they are so expensive.

[@SirReptitious]

There is definitely a real difference. CD-R/DVD-R/BluRay-R all use organic dyes that use the laser to burn off dots of the dye to create the data you are backing up in binary code(0 or 1). The problem with these dyes is that since they are organic they break down over time. And the worse the storage conditions the faster they degrade. Even factory pressed discs can break down over time if stored in bad conditions. But M-Discs don't use dyes; they use an actual coating of some metal or mineral. The laser then burns off dots of the material so that like dyes it creates binary data of 0s and 1s. But since it doesn't use dyes that naturally break down M-Discs are supposed to last up to 1000 years. Of course this number comes from accelerated wear testing done on M-Discs. But as of now it does seem like M-Disc is the best choice for important data.

[@asus_gamer9219]

@SirReptitious modern blurays, at least from my knowledge, don't use organic dyes. They use inorganic materials. M discs are obviously better then dvds and cd that used organic dyes but with BD-R and M-discs they both use inorganic materials. I do agree with you though, m-discs are probably the best way to store important data

[@SirReptitious]

@@asus_gamer9219 When you say BluRays don't use organic dyes, are you talking about pressed retail discs or the ones meant for recording by consumers at home? Because I know that pressed retail CDs/DVDs/BRs/UHDs all do not use dyes. But AFAIK all consumer recordable discs except M-Discs use organic dyes. But it's been years since I have bought any recordable discs so maybe there are recordable discs now that don't use dyes or M-Disc tech.....

[@soulsmouls]

Where do you put the Disks? And how do you storage them safely.

[@ArthursHD]

2:32 Verbatim is not the only one. RITEK also has them.

[@MassimilianoGallieri]

Thank you

[@lundsweden]

My strategy for backing stuff up is to have data on multiple hardrives/cloud storage in multiple physical locations

[@dave24-73]

What I don’t understand other than that they can, why the price per disc is so high. If they price was lower I’m sure it would be a much more popular media. But for many the price of each disc is far too high to make them viable for your a average person.

[@danielontech]

I'm guessing it has to do with the composition of the inorganic layer which (if the patent is anything to go by) seems pretty complex. And of course if the product remains very niche there aren't going to be economies of scale. Those would be my guesses anyway.

[@davidforshaw2451]

There seems to be concern online, that Verbatim MDisks are just re-boxed Verbatim blueray disks, with a higher price markup.. How can a user tell the difference?

[@danielontech]

I have a separate video about this. The concerns are grounded in variations in the MIDs and product packaging. I think that there are benign explanations for all of those things. But the direct answer to your question is that to the best of my knowledge - you can't. If you have suspicions, reach out to the manufacturer. Whether you wish to believe them or not is of course up to you.

[@vinishshetty8055]

use double side DVD jewel cases to store your archival discs don't use the cd case with plastic covers

[@mauriciogutierrez2145]

Excuse the moronic question, but how do you read these? Like normal blurays? Or do you a special unit like for recording them?

[@danielontech]

They can be read in normal blu ray drivers. The special / M Disc certified device is specifically for burning / engraving them..

[@mauriciogutierrez2145]

@@danielontech thk you daniel 👍

[@modbox9560]

Eventually soon they will be obsolete just as 3g forced many phone upgrades as well as Netflix killing blockbuster sales and then to end physical media🎉

[@aidanscharine3814]

i’ve been trying to get m-disk working on my windows 10 computer, you said there was programs for writing on windows i think? my main issue is that whenever i insert the disc it doesn’t show up on the computer, i’ve bought two different external hard drives which were listed on the m-disk website and had this issue on both despite them working for other disks, am i missing something?

[@st4849]

If only Verbatim makes the readers, it's not a long term solution. How will you read your data 30 years from now when they don't make readers anymore and yours broke? Bluray at least is so widespread that you'll be able to get your hands on some sort of reader even if 2nd hand. I'm going to have to get bluray instead therefore.

[@jonathanart8823]

OWC - OWC Mercury Pro 16X Blu-ray, 16X DVD, 48X CD Read/Write will read M disc

[@danielontech]

From what I've been told every modern Blu Ray reader/writer will be compatible with the M-Disc. A cynic might say that "MDisc compatible" branding on modern burners is a little misleading. But either way .... finding compatible HW should not be tricky.

[@mosconi4539]

Hi,are m discs good for backing up data from like laptop ect or only for pictures,videos?

[@danielontech]

You can use them for archiving anything, really. But I wouldn't say that using them to back up system data from a laptop would be a good use. Mainly because the storage capacity is relatively low and the retrieval time is slow. Hence why photo and video tend to be popular use cases (for archiving / data retention .... where reaccessing the data may never even be anticipated).

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

Hi important question here. Say i bought a game from GoG and used the offline installer to install onto the M-Disc, would that mean i can save my games on it? or would that mean i can only play my games and not save? I miss the days where i could just plot in a disc and just play a game without installing it onto the system as fuck the Xbox one and PS5 that forces you to install from the disc instead of letting you plop in and play

[@Henkibojj]

There are no games that have ever let you save your progress on the disc, as that requires burning. The closest thing was Nintendo leaving a bit of space in their cassettes for savefiles. For PC, maybe you needed to install the game and maybe you didn't, but the savefiles were always saved on the hard drive. For PS1 and PS2, the saving was done on memory cards bought separately. You have made a good choice in buying from GoG since they are actually giving you the files instead of letting you access them in the cloud as Steam does, but you're a bit confused on the installing part of it. I'm not sure it's even technically possible to install a game onto disc, but it's certainly not recommended since the read speeds are hundreds of times slower than installing onto the drive, especially an SSD, and the game will either not understand what you're doing, or it will be slow, or it will crash very often. What you need to do is install the game either way, and GoG lets you keep the offline installers without the need for the cloud, but you can't escape the install to drive whatever you try. In that sense, a computer is not different from a PlayStation 4 or 5, or the later stages of PS3 as the game is shipped on disc and can be installed completely offline. But I was there in the PS1, PS2 and early PS3 days and my man, it's not something you should be missing. Load times between levels, menus and even dying and respawning were unbearable. I don't know what your hatred towards installing is, but I can understand not wanting to be dependent on the cloud. Short answer: No, you must install, but yes, you can burn the install files to disc for offline access. You just can't run the game from disc, and especially not if all you've burnt to disc is the offline installers.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@Henkibojj I simply don't wanna have to wait to play the game as if i buy a physical copy for a console i just wanna play it then and there not have to install the rest of it like the good ol days. Sure i would appreciate an option to install from the disk onto the console and such BUT i want it to be an option not mandatory in order to play a game as i fucking hate DRM no matter the form. Which is why i like GoG, sure you can argue to a point still DRM as you need a server to access the multiplayer stuff but i don't really give a fuck about multiplayer as at least i could still play the game And if i wanna play a game unoptimally despite having the option to install it for drastically better performance then that is on me as it is still my choice to seek a worse play experience. Like i just want the choice instead of it being forced on me What's worse is having to keep the disc after having to install the game as at that point might as well have just bought it digitally as you don't need that fucking plastic coaster after installing yet as a form of DRM you have to keep it in order to launch the game

[@mRahman92]

With the sorry state of streaming services and game companies, all of a sudden people are interested in archiving what they paid for.

[@straightup7up]

What's the largest capacity per M- disc; 25Gb?

[@danielontech]

They make a 100GB variant but ... from what I've heard it's 50GB/side

[@London-Lad]

Can I just buy any external Blu Ray burner for my laptop to archive to M Disc?

[@danielontech]

No. You'll need a writer that specifically supports the M Disc.

[@andx1987]

@@danielontech Actually the special writer in only required for M Disc DVDs. To my knowledge the blu-ray variant of M Disc is by design a standard BD-R and you can use any blu-ray writer. The packaging of Verbatim M Disc BD-Rs I have at hand even states: 'For use in all BD writers and recorders'.

[@xybersurfer]

@@andx1987 that's interesting

[@mirandalad2342]

i never understood the logic of m-discs. why would you want pirated content and porn to outlive you? that's basically what people are using them for. what data are people putting on these discs? when i see a 10TB hdd i know it's full of pirated content. what else could possibly be on it?

[@danielontech]

Ha that's definitely not true for everybody. Personally I use M Discs to create backups for a few KZbin channels including this one. They're somewhat popular with photographers also for the same reason

[@jonathanart8823]

DOD uses them. NIH also wants archives of data collected with NIH funding to last more than five years, so M discs are one very few options for true archival data. The other stuff you reference doesn't have that requirement

[@neatoburrito3170]

Wow you really have never encountered someone who's into family history

[@eldritchedward]

I can only speak to my own needs, but maybe they'll provide perspective: My wife and I have spent over 6k$ on movie and series on dvds. Probably closer to 8k. These are almost certainly nearing the end of their lives. I've had some few fail on me despite good storage (my oldest Stargate dvds). Copying them over to m-discs would save me from having to ever do this again and basically losing all the money I spent on movies over the years. HDD failure rates are too high to even consider, without constant backing up and copies for redundancy, which drives cost up quite a bit, and even then you have to replace them every 3-5 years. Most of these old series discs aren't even that big. I can easily fit multiple old DVDs on one m-disc. Also, I remember a time when we used to pay around ~4$ per CD to burn, which only had around 700MB of space, so this doesn't seem such a bad deal to me.

[@jimschuler8830]

@@eldritchedward The best option for movies is a NAS with a RAID configuration. It's immediate access to your entire library (even to the point where you can stream from it with software like Plex and Jellyfin) and if one drive fails, you know about it immediately and can replace it without losing any of your collection. With redundancy, you're looking at around half the cost per GB versus M-disc. Granted, that's just for the drives and none of the other hardware. Again, though, we're also talking about a full movie server and not just storage, so there are significant benefits to that additional cost. Longevity depends on how hard you ride them. I have a 250GB HDD from the mid 2000's (going on twenty years old) that's kicking in my machine right now. I use it to keep a copy of my music collection. M-disc is still a good off-site archive option.

[@jlk311]

thats funny--- BS, excuse my language who would have thought anyone would be offended by an abbreviation for Bachelor of Science

[@user-ko8lw8kt7n]

Will the Bluray burner from LG WP50 NB 40 give you the option of using 100gb discs? Thanks...Mark Williams

[@tamrix]

Anything modern will work if you’re buying it new. The tech has been around since 2013. Watch out for older second hand drives.