MacGruber-(CA) | "It" Has Been Revealed | The Atheist Experience 26.36

The Atheist Experience 26.36 for September 4, 2022 with Matt Dillahunty and Jmike
MacGruber from Canada is calling to present a presuppositional argument to demonstrate that God has revealed the truth of Revelations to all of us.
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[@lauriesoper4056]

"I'm going to prove that God exists." "Okay, prove it." "I don't have to."

[@suatustel746]

God is so great he doesn't even need to exist!!!!!!!!!!

[@666ingz]

You know he does, you just reject his blah blah blah

[@crazycrimess]

😃 😀 😄 😁 🤣

[@DiavoIa]

Shwish

[@Rage867]

@@666ingz iTs wriTTun on yur hArt

[@brianmonks8657]

1. Lightning can only exist because of the god Zeus. 2. Lightning exists 3. Therefore the god Zeus must exist. Swish!

[@adriangeh6414]

Thor: "I say thee, Nay!"

[@darrowgreen6367]

Raijin: 👀

[@fisheyenomiko]

This is Thunderbird erasure and I will not stand for it! (-;

[@fritzhaselnuss7852]

you ve done it. You converted me! This iron-clad argument and logical conclusivity has changed my mind. THANK YOU ^^

[@souless4654]

🤣🤣🤣

[@tylerstoakes4940]

Presuppositionalism Step 1: I'm right. Step 2: You know I'm right. Step 3: If you say I'm wrong, you're proving me right.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

😆

[@TBomb39]

Step 4: ? Step 5: Profit.

[@ericwilliams1659]

But i received a special secret message from God that i can't prove to anyone else.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

Presuppositionalism (actually): God is the necessary precondition for knowledge, metaphysics, and ethics These things exist Therefore God is exists

[@christopherianlister5212]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 demonstrate part 1...

[@darrowgreen6367]

"God is real because God is real" -this guy

[@shadowshedinja6124]

Ah the classic: "The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club".

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

I refuse to believe that I'd chose not to believe it's that circular.

[@Eyrie007]

SWISH!

[@TBomb39]

@@blarglemantheskeptic This guy is spamming this comment on multiple threads and on multiple videos. What a tool!

[@TBomb39]

@Technic That's not what I meant.

[@smochygrice465]

Shwish - I'm still an atheist 🤘😂

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

🤟😆

[@revwillyg6450]

🤘🏻lmao

[@MaleINTP]

🤘

[@jameskelly3745]

💯🤘👍🏻👍🏻

[@DioDeezBrando]

Swish

[@shanewilson7994]

I love the "swish" and then he just finds out that not only didn't he "win" the argument, he's not even playing the same game.

[@johnboettcher1962]

He is a master of The Way of the Pigeon

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

@@johnboettcher1962 lmao

[@simonsmasher1771]

sadly i dont think he realised lol

[@chethanburre6016]

"Swish" is him being destroyed by the sword of rationality.

[@scottfulton267]

This caller really brought his D game to the table!

[@Fimbulvinter19]

McGruber says he wants the conversation, but his actions say otherwise. He's gone into this discussion with a fiat declaration that not only are Matt and JMike wrong about what they personally believe, they are actively lying to everyone about it, and nothing anyone can say can convince McGruber otherwise. That's not a conversation, that's talking at or past someone.

[@creativewriter3887]

Xians don't want a Dialogue.. they want a pulpit for a diatribe.

[@starrystarrynight52]

"Swish" - and thinks he's made a point! And he thinks he's being bullied. I'll be laughing for days now.

[@cafeeineaddicted8123]

Listening to this guy it occurred to me that there is another internal inconsistency in his position : He claims that the revelation he has received from God is so strong that he cannot be wrong about it, while at the same time asserting that anyone who disagrees with them has received that same revelation... but got it wrong.

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISTS and THEISTS or Catholics, JWs, Born Agains, Muslims, Buddhists, Mormons, etc. will just grow old, get sick, suffer, die, and just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths. So, what will atheists and theists respectfully and reasonably discuss about God and Gods, the origins of LIFE, creations, religions, the Creator and his Christ, Satan the Devil and his anti-Christs, and the Bible?

[@ericwilliams1659]

Or the reciever of special revelations "actively lies about it". Like the millions of people searching for the truth are knowingly being dishonest about their search by ignoring "good evidence"

[@sugarat5555]

Swish

[@Fufiloofa]

Well yes just like they believe that a very evil satan/devil exists that can lie and manipulate humans but they are sure that the bible could never have been corrupted, but that's also where the story about the satan/devil story comes from in the first place, it's so messed up it makes my head hurt.

[@rawmaterials3909]

exactly. the point is, if the revelation is an absolute, perfect and maximal truth, it should be clear to everyone from the first day of their life, like embedded in the conscience itself, and no skepticism could be strong enough to refuse or "suppress" it. An example I often use: if I say "Super Mario is a videogame from Nintendo", noone in the world will be able to argue. Everyone will agree that he has a mustache, he wears a red cap, he jumps on blocks, etc. IF someone doesn't know about Mario, all I have to do is make him/her watch or play the game and my statement will become clear as the sky in no time with no effort. Can someone do the same thing with god? No. Reality shows that nobody agrees on god's characteristics on any level. The conclusion? Super Mario's "truth" is stronger than god's.

[@christiananderson4909]

If I'd participated in a conversation like this, recorded for posterity, I'd probably wouldn't have offered my real name, either.

[@oldmanaz.6811]

It's the most forethought he put in to the whole thing and I'm 1 minute in.

[@GubekochiGoury]

If I'd participated in a conversation like this, recorded for posterity, I'd probably never sleep again out of shame, fake name or not.

[@christiananderson4909]

@@kentonbaird1723 Ha, yup! I'm giving him too much credit.

[@Icypenguigo]

The character of MacGruber doesn't deserve to be associated with this intellectual black hole.

[@thevindictive6145]

We should thank Jesus and friends for making a grown man think like a baby.

[@gknight4719]

Babies would never make up such bullshit, they get indoctrinated, first.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

I had no hand in it. Blame him, he's an idiot. Now go in peace.

[@scottblack7182]

😂

[@bl3107]

A Baby is way more intelligent, they haven’t been indoctrinated yet😎

[@sauloftarsus3351]

@@bl3107 Why do you think atheists aren't indoctrinated?

[@twowardrobeswardrobes1536]

MacGruber brought a spatula to a gunfight.

[@presidentskroob]

More like an imaginary wet noodle

[@claudiasolomon1123]

AXP: Hello caller what do you have for us?? Caller: I'm right. AXP: Prove you're right. Caller: You know I'm right. AXP: Will you prove you're right?? Caller: you know I'm right. AXP: Bye. You know your "argument" is complete scheit when it can be accurately summed up THIS easily & quickly.

[@Yungrexy]

People like this is why I evolved from an atheist to an aggressive atheist... I have zero tolerance for their fantasies anymore, they are way too invested in their fiction of choice and no different to Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter or LOTR stans in my eyes.

[@TBomb39]

Totally agree. Although I consider those examples to be far more entertaining and wholesome fantasies.

[@histreeonics7770]

Star Trek is different as it presents a real hope for the future of mankind. :)

[@indiegun]

Religious fanatics are different than fantasy fans in a few important respects though: First, no sane Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter or LOTR fan thinks any of those fantasy stories are real. Second, the people who write, film and produce those books, movies and TV shows have to pay taxes when they take money for their work. Third, politicians aren't forced to pledge belief and devotion to the Jedi High Council, the Order of the Phoenix, the Kingdom of Gondor or the Klingon Empire in order to get elected. Fourth, none of the fans of the franchises you mentioned are voting or passing laws based on their fantasy while trying to impose their obsessive fandom on everyone else. Fifth, none of those film and literature fans are claiming righteous superiority, judging other humans, threatening end-times armageddon, blowing themselves up, killing innocent civilians or starting pointless, bloody wars in the name of the creatively fictional franchises you mentioned. Religious fanatics do some version of all those horrible things. Other than that, I agree completely.

[@Yungrexy]

@@indiegun Give it 2000 years and there will be phone ins about how Ben Kenobi was a real person... And that he died for our/their sins 😝

[@scamchan]

I agree 1000% as being nice isn't going to snap them back to reality

[@facetiouslyinsolent8313]

There is one major difference that "MacGruber" doesn't seem to comprehend. When comparing his transcendent god to JMike, JMike is actually real and can be proven to exist. "Swish" me! Nothing but net!!!!!

[@snooganslestat2030]

Exactly!

[@Icypenguigo]

Anyone who pretends to be some kind of genius while also believing in a book of magical fairy tales completely defeats my ability to take them seriously. It's like a toddler running around and proclaiming to be the smartest person ever while drooling on themself and pooping in their diaper.

[@kissit012]

Hawking drooled and pooped on himself. People regarded him as a genius, but he also didn’t proclaim to be the smartest.

[@wrencestondwanson3437]

Fairy tales? Says the lost and clueless atheist fool that thinks star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE AND MEANS to create/design the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy. The religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism RUNS from "reality." I would add that as an atheist, you're bankrupt of RATIONAL/POSSIBLE causes for life, intelligence, consciousness, morality and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body. Atheism has no RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step by step atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. THINK ABOUT what you’re getting into w/ the cult of atheism. GET OUT NOW. I’ll help you find truth. Atheism has none.

[@smittys3069]

@@kissit012 He was quite a handsome bitch as well.

[@Icypenguigo]

@Technic Nah. I already know the types of answers you'll probably give and they won't be in the least bit satisfying or enlightening. Not gonna waste my time.

[@Icypenguigo]

@Technic Hail Satan

[@lnsflare1]

For what it's worth, Odin has revealed to me that MacGruber is just getting pranked by Loki, and will be spending eternity in the realm of Hel.

[@johnkerr1113]

guessing odin used mike lindell's iphone to 'reveal' that to you... thoroughly believable.. thanks for the update! 🤣

[@fuckoffgoogle12]

Jmike is extremely articulate and knowledgeable. Love listening to him talk here.

[@Anglomachian]

When Matt said "You think Syeten Bruggencate (or however that's spelled) demolished me" I busted several guts laughing. I saw that debate. It was S.A.D. It was painful how bad Bruggencate was.

[@grahvis]

Me too, Bruggencate is a one trick pony and a lame one at that.

[@srp01983]

@@grahvis Yes. He’s spent a long time honing his ‘argument’ by inserting trick words, twisting what is said so he appears to win. When you actually boil down what he really says it amounts to ‘I believe because I believe because I’m right and you’re wrong’. Snake oil charlatan and nothing more.

[@anthonymitchell9793]

I watched that debate and it was so bad that I don't think I can invest in watching another theist vs atheist debate. I now have two rules when talking to theists: 1) If a person is a presup I end the conversation immediately. Nothing positive can be gained from continuing. 2) If a person doesn't believe humans and apes have a common ancestors I will not discuss science topic or concept (Fine Tuning, Intelligent Design, DNA, Abiogenesis, Laws of Thermodynamics, etc.) with them. If all the scientific evidence around evolution is beyond them they don't have any way of comprehending the other topics.

[@kenchristie9214]

If you want a really good laugh watch Australia Q & A with Christopher Hitchens and convicted paedophile Cardinal George Pell.

[@brucetopping248]

all the presup arguments are fucking asinine. It ALWAYS boil down their core argument "I cannot be wrong".

[@vvanheukelum]

"Don't interrupt me Matt!" This has to be THE telltale sign you're dealing with a member of the cult of Darth Dawkins.

[@49perfectss]

This guy had to be a low effort troll lol. That swish after saying essentially nothing can't be from a serious person hahaha

[@freddan6fly]

He is a typical presup. Listen to Tom Rabbit's recordings of Darth Dawkins, the voice sounds like one of the DD sycophants.

[@joelinbody9949]

I like the phrase low effort troll. Heh.

[@jaclo3112]

As this is stock standard presup apologetics it's almost impossible to tell if it's a troll or not.

[@49perfectss]

@@freddan6fly no. You can't make me

[@freddan6fly]

@@49perfectss It is often a comedy masterpiece, but you need to be able to listen to involuntary comedy from idiots.

[@yoyohayli]

This is one of those guys who thinks he's so smart that no one can teach him anything because he already believes his mind is perfect, and so he can never be wrong. If someone doesn't understand something he says, it can't possibly be because he's bad at arguments or explanations. It *must* be the listener's fault for not understanding his genius. 🙄 Gonna guess this guy exhibits quite a few narcissistic qualities in life...

[@dawkins5824]

Yes Matt Dillahunty, I concur.

[@freddan6fly]

@@dawkins5824 "Yes Matt Dillahunty, I concur." - got any evidence for that claim?

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

@@dawkins5824 Hellow Mr. Yellow Teeth!

[@danpeterson8731]

@@dawkins5824 love your work and debates especially thank you Sir

[@yoyohayli]

@@dawkins5824 no u

[@visforvegan8]

In all the years I've listened to this show there have been confident theists calling. This guy takes the cake. You can't be rational, and believe in an invisible sky daddy that controls every molecule, every atom and every subatomic particle. You believe in said sky daddy You are not rational FLUSH!!! BOOYAH

[@paulk9188]

You can’t be rational & think random mutations ever produce functional information & origin of life does not come from intelligence 😊

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

@@paulk9188 And yet, as you unjustifiably believe to the contrary, you also believe that this presupposed "iNTelLigEnce", just happened to be your particular flavour of cosmic dictator? I mean just look at the preponderance of evidence for supernatural entities speaking things into existence.🙄 I'm afraid you're completely divorced from rationality on that one. Try again, and don't forget to sign off with a, SWISH.

[@paulk9188]

@@skateboardingjesus4006 Imagine this level of incompetence.. this is you.. Atheist-“Hey man, wanna see a car get built” Logical Human-Sure, I’ll take a look, where are you going to do it? Atheist-“Oh not me, it’s just gonna kinda happen..like, over time..you know.” Logical human-Umm, not really but okay Atheist-“yea, yeah, you’ll see, it just takes time bro, these things just happen” L.H.-Oh, okay, so where’s the car? Atheist “what? Right here, see all that stuff on the ground” L.H.-Well, I see some wires that look like they maybe go to that headlight, but the bulb is over there, I see some screws that look like they go to that oil pan, but the tubbing is way over there, I see a hubcap that doesn’t fit that tire..but where’s all the parts for the engine, the coil overs, the shocks, the other tires, I mean, where’s the whole car? Atheist-“Dude, that stuff we’ll get in time” L.H.-Oh, you are gonna go buy it, or make it? Atheist-“Huh..LoL, no man, it’s just gonna appear like..from space” LH-Oh, okay, so who is gonna put it all together? Anti-“Dude, it’s like I said, it will just happen by itself..in time..” LH-Dude..that’s not possible Atheist -“Yea man, how do you think all those other cars you see got here, like how we ALL got here..?” LH-Well they got here because someone designed all those parts, used the correct tools, had them engineered together perfectly, and then finally designed machines that put those thousands of parts together for all of us.. Atheist-“Yea man, like all that is gonna happen, we just need time & no interference.. Logical Human-“Well I’m gonna go to the dealership and but a car that someone already built & put together.. Atheist-“Cool bro, I’ll see you in a few billion years, & maybe I’ll have some more parts..” And this is your modern day atheist. 🤦‍♂ That's enough internet for you tonight, time to call your caretaker and have him roll you off to bed now. Don't forget to wipe the drool from the keyboard before you go though..okay? Thanks

[@dom20141]

@@paulk9188 my guy just accept that god is not real

[@donbacker9883]

​@@paulk9188 You should call in and demolish these guys.

[@shanewilson7994]

P1 - God is required for intelligibility -This needs to be supported. And that's a claim that he can't remotely begin to defend.

[@dawkins5824]

Fine tuning, objective moral ontology, and digital DNA defeat you.

[@marcusreading3783]

@@dawkins5824 Bullshit, dont exist and a complete misunderstanding of what DNA actually is.

[@shanewilson7994]

@@dawkins5824 Lets see: Fine tuning - a bad argument that really doesn't hold any water. Objective moral ontology - doesn't really do anything. Digital DNA, DNA isn't digital.

[@nephjd88]

@@dawkins5824 So fine-tuned that we can only live on a singular planet in the entire universe (that we know of), and even on that planet, only 30% of it is dry land (sorry, we can't live underwater without any extra amenities that we build), and even less than that is actually inhabitable by humans without, like the case for living underwater, extra amenities that we have to build for us to survive.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

@@dawkins5824 _Fine_ *dooking* is what YOU'RE doing. 🤣

[@delbomb3131]

Apparently you can break the brains of many people by having a book say "people will say they don't believe, they really do but they're just suppressing it. Hella manipulative

[@TracedaBassman]

Anyone could simply reply, "You don't really believe in God, you just scam people for money."

[@justadude7752]

I really want some muslim to come up to these people and give their same argument to them and for them to try to argue against it💀👍

[@johnkerr1113]

I though 1 Corithinians 14:33 KJV said god was NOT the author of confusion.... tut tut.. dear old grubber really should have a reverse reveal to his lord and master and ask him to make things clearer for Matt and JMike....

[@willyh.r.1216]

Belief and proof are enemies. Belief and gullibility are best friends.

[@DoctorBastard]

You could almost taste the smugness...

[@lovesjersey]

The second I heard him say "swish", I was reminded of an observation I made a long time ago that I have since repeated on social media a few times. It goes like this: "The swiftest and most-traveled road to self-congratulation is stupidity."

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Good one!

[@ReddFoxx1562]

Why not just use the term masturbation instead of self-congratulation?

[@lovesjersey]

@@ReddFoxx1562 Because they don't mean the same thing.

[@ReddFoxx1562]

@@lovesjersey they do in the context you are implying and using

[@kissit012]

@@ReddFoxx1562 But they don’t. Self gratification is not the same as masturbation, though masturbation is often used to reach self gratification.

[@Daveodad]

I love when Matt says "Bring your A game"; however, in all the time I've been listening to these shows I have yet to hear even one theist who actually possesses an A game...

[@TracedaBassman]

They have come to realize there is no proof for GOD, so they increasingly resort to rhetorical tricks, traps, and outright lying.

[@JayMaverick]

Theists don't have a game, much less an A-game. They only have a rulebook that says they already won the game and they don't need to play.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

@@JayMaverick 😆

[@sougata7]

@@JayMaverick Very well put!

[@Stevo_Drums]

“Don’t interrupt me, Matt!” Matt: SWISH!

[@TracedaBassman]

The theists who call in KNOW they can't prove anything, so they resort to rhetorical tricks, fallacies, and out right lies. It has gotten worse in the last couple of years on this show. They KNOW they can't prove their claims.

[@troig43]

Same call every week...

[@ricwilson6612]

What's interesting is the *need* to try to prove it via some science. To me that says they know the belief is whack.

[@troig43]

@Technic The Bible...

[@troig43]

@Technic Moot point. There is no evidence for the supernatural. Theists call in to this show - and others like it - week after week and when asked to provide evidence for what they believe they just quote bible (or Quran) verses.

[@DrMikeE100]

Even if JMike were not being superb (along with Matt), his citation of "modus tollens" alone was awesome... It is the first time I've heard this cited in the last half-century outside of college. Congrats, JMike (from Dr. Mike, a Ph.D. mathematician/ retired math professor and fellow skeptic/ atheist).

[@johnkerr1113]

I confess i had to google 'modus tollens' again and see how appropriate it is and kudos to JMike for using it... as they say," if being a king implies having a crown, not having a crown implies not being the king!" haha.... beware King Charles 3, wear you crown day in day out and even in bed lest MacGrubber thinks you are not a king...

[@mr.wrongthink.1325]

The conversation should be about: Convincing, demonstrable evidence that "god's revelations" isn't just a fantasy. All religions are equally wrong about existence of supernatural. Without evidence, gods are just a fantasy.

[@dawkins5824]

Prove the existence of the natural. Or it’s an atheist fantasy.

[@mr.wrongthink.1325]

@@dawkins5824 Atheist does not need to prove anything. Everything that was ever discovered may be false, it still does not make your god to exists.

[@aonary5382]

"I don't have to defend my claim" Well then, we don't have to accept it

[@solly119119]

Ah yes ... presuppers. The "I know there's no evidence for my God, so let me invent an argument where I don't even have to try and prove it" crowd.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

Just say the transcendental argument is too complex for you

[@solly119119]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 No, Will. Philosophical arguments do not prove the reality of anything. If Presuppers had any evidence that could be falsifiable, such as through scientific methods, they wouldn't have to resort to "transcendental" arguments.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@solly119119 This is begging the question of materialism. Clearly you believe all that exists is matter, but this is of course a claim about the status of metaphysics which is still under the domain of philosophy. Also you are debating which would imply some standard for knowledge, and epistemology is also under the realm of philosophy. So to say philosophy doesn’t provide any actual answers would mean your argument can’t have any real answers and is therefore invalid

[@solly119119]

​@@tnyw872621h8474h9 You're wrong on several fronts, but I'll point out just a couple. The first is you don't understand metaphysics if you think it pertains to matter. Certainly not when it comes to evidence (and when it comes to matter, thank you for telling me what I believe, BTW. "Clearly" you're capable of evaluating beliefs someone has based on just a few paragraphs). I also didn't say philosophy "doesn't provide any actual answers". I said they don't prove the reality of something. Big difference between the two. So in the future, if you're going to criticize people you should try and represent what they say accurately, instead of what you want them to mean.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@solly119119 Metaphysics pertains to existence, so if you are making a claim that all that exists is only matter, that is a claim about metaphysics. And I fail to see a meaningful difference between those two statements, if philosophy did provide a valid answer to something would it not also be true in reality?

[@sanjeevgig8918]

Presup: When you get tired of being crushed on your Kalaam argument, the Moral argument, the Something-cannot-come-from-nothing etc LOL

[@Lupinemancer87]

McGruber knows that Odin is the supreme god he is just surpressing it.

[@chibbersthesquirrel6189]

JMike is really good at holding callers to actually answer the questions presented to them and not letting them dodge. This has to be one of the worst calls I've seen in a long time but they took care of it handily.

[@adriangeh6414]

Using philoso-speak and word salads instead of actual evidence to prove an invisible magical deity with super powers, is just sad.

[@snooganslestat2030]

Sad & predictable.

[@John-vm2sq]

It's not even that. It's that when asked to provide evidence for his premise he says, "I don't have to, it's been revealed." His argument is verbatim, "God exists because God exists." It's probably the worst argument for God I've ever witnessed.

[@TheMissiIe]

Funnily enough, it's easier to prove that Harry Potter is true than it is to prove the bible is true

[@Sweet_P0tat0-piiie]

Prove that Harry Potter is true.

[@adriangeh6414]

@@Sweet_P0tat0-piiie video evidence.

[@dartharaneus67]

@@adriangeh6414 LOL

[@dartharaneus67]

@@kentonbaird1723 LOL

[@dblankenship88]

Same with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

[@bukowski20]

JMike did a phenomenal job here. Well done.

[@smoldragon339]

Imagine a detective at a crime scene going "It has been revealed to me that Bob did it. Look at the evidence here!" And when asked to explain the evidence, he just goes "I don't need to point out the evidence! You know that Bob did it, you're just trying to suppress it!" I'm pretty sure that detective would get fired.

[@EricAxel36]

I'm Canadian, and I've never come across anyone like this, except for maybe one guy with a mic on the street and another guy with a megaphone outside of a mall. It's weird that these people exist here. I guess each province has its differences.

[@perkjellqvist2329]

Well there is Jordan Peterson. 😊

[@serenaislinn4912]

Y'all had a convoy of truckers trying to shut things down in protest of things being shut down to protect the populace from a deadly disease. Y'all got your science deniers, and poor critical thinkers in larger numbers than I think you'd like to accept.

[@thegreatcanadianweasel9928]

@@perkjellqvist2329 That is just about us balancing the scales. We give Celine Dion, so we have to give Nickelback. We give...well I'm sure we gave something that offsets Jordan Peterson, or maybe releasing that evil was a cost for giving a bunch of actors or such...

[@EricAxel36]

@@serenaislinn4912 I meant openly religious nuts. But you're right, that trucker group probably included a bunch of them.

[@delbomb3131]

Don't forget the ole "Canadian catholic" kid who used to call a lot

[@arthurunknown8972]

You can substitute any god [i.e., Thor, Allah, etc.] for his god in his assertion & his claim proves that god using his reasoning, which destroys his argument.

[@duncanbryson1167]

My argument for NO argument beyond deism.

[@thealmightyone6461]

Yahweh, god, Allah. Same abrahamic God. Wanted to point that out just incase you're gonna discuss it with someone.

[@arthurunknown8972]

@@thealmightyone6461 ah, no. Each of those religions specifically reject the other religion, their dogma & by indisputable conflicts are NOT the same god. They each merely build on [or exclude] parts of the other's mythos.

[@thealmightyone6461]

@@arthurunknown8972 nope, they change the dogma and stories but not the god itself. "Jesus" changed the dogma of the jewish religion, changing it while still using that same god giving him the autorithy to change it in his name (his own name since he god in the flesh blabla) because of his claim that jewish people got corrupted. Mohammed practically did the same thing, claiming the bible to be corrupted by man and god giving him authority to make a new uncorrupted religion. The quran still states jesus mozes noah solomon etcetera as legitimate prophets of god. mohammed did claim to be the last prophet of the abrahamic god so that muslims would'nt cross over to another person claiming to be a prophet and pull the same crap like he and "jesus" did. "Both" never changed the god. "They" did change a lot of the rest though. Except for the genesis stories. The 3 religions collectively believe the same on that.

[@arthurunknown8972]

@@thealmightyone6461 since the "god" is defined by the stories, they are three different gods, as one "god" can't support all three. Although, it could reject all 3 or be non-existent.

[@johnlloyd702]

JMike, your logic is superlative. This caller was spanked !

[@vizzini2510]

Sorry, Matt, but theists do not "switch" gears in the middle of an argument. They "swish" gears! 🤣😂⚙

[@joelinbody9949]

Nice. Haha.

[@snooganslestat2030]

That was the real revelation!

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

Fun Fact! "MacGruber" is an anagram of "Dunning-Kruger"...

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Errrr….it really isnt

[@marciwilliams8654]

If Matt ever does a compilation of the most obtuse callers, this would have to be in the top 10.

[@mv8141]

Everytime I listen to a theist like this guy, I am reminded that he has evolved from countless generations of religious people until we get this. A person who can’t back up any claims he has made and his mind just gets thrown into a sort of loop that he can’t get out of. It’s basic promoted traits that living things have from generations of breeding. He doesn’t know WHY he just is. Someday I hope we can look at evolved thinking good and bad and discover why someone can be like this. Yes, he had a choice whether to accept this or that, but most likely he would be a theist based on his past evolution. This caller is so ingrained without evidence that it’s psychologically fascinating.

[@stevepierce6467]

Bingo...living proof of evolution.

[@Hreowsian]

I love how proud of himself he was after phoning in to make a completely foolish assertion...

[@Rage867]

I like how he tried to say he swished on them but his voice cracked like a 11 year old.

[@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1]

Is "Swish" the sound that a Douche makes?

[@pmtoner9852]

Swish is the sound made in basketball when you miss the shot and the rim but brush the bottom of the net

[@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1]

@@pmtoner9852 Aka close to being a "Brick" shot

[@pmtoner9852]

@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 yup

[@burningmisery]

​@@GodEqualstheSquaRootof-1 It's the sound a douche canoe makes while getting swished into irrelevancy.

[@TheDahaka1]

It's like a little kid. "But I have armor that deflects all your attacks! And my attacks can penetrate any armor! And I have invisibility and I can teleport" Sure kid, now go back eating glue

[@pauls.6360]

"You believe in my imaginary friend just like I do because my imaginary friend says so." Although I was a theist for many years, listening to the unawareness of their own vapidity still never ceases to astound me. But people like "MacGruber" sound just plain DECEPTIVE AND EVIL to me these days.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

@@jaflenbond7854 Is that what your imaginary friend told you?

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@sigmaoctantis1892 hahahaha, only fools and liars will worship an imaginary friend...., truthful, kind, and loving persons love and honor a real and existing friend. You yourself know that you are NOT a truthful, kind, and loving worshipper of the Creator but a worthless worshipper of Harry Potter and Santa Claus and you too are NOT a believer of the TRUTHS and righteousness of the Christ about the Kingdom of God and Resurrection of the Dead but a believer of the fantasies and fairy tales of the anti-Christs about the Lord of the Rings, Spiderman, and Cinderella. You yourself know that you will just become worthless and useless dust on earth forever after your inescapable death.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@jaflenbond7854 I'm still waiting for you to tell me how do *YOU* know that SATAN did not deceive the scribes who penned the bible... Why are you pretending you didn;t hear the question? Are you trying to be dishonest and deceptive?

[@jaflenbond7854]

@@holgerlubotzki3469 hahahaha, just go ahead and make a fool of yourself..... only worthless fools and liars will not know and understand that all THEISTS and their anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders are nothing but worthless and foolish worshippers of a worthless and foolish Satan the Devil, the enemy of the God and Father of the Christ.... truthful, kind, and loving persons know and understand that all atheists, agnostics, and theists were deceived and tricked by Satan the Devil to mock and degrade the authorities, teachings, and commandments of the Creator and His Christ as worthless and useless, no value whatsoever in their own lives and existence.

[@holgerlubotzki3469]

@@sigmaoctantis1892 Jaffles ran away again...

[@thejudgmentalcat]

He "swished" tf outta there 🤣

[@Astromancerguy]

I bet this guy is in Campus Crusade and heard this argument in a talk from a visiting pastor. He sounds like how I used to talk when I was 19 and thought I knew everything. He'll grow up and look back on this and feel pretty embarassed.

[@blackmarketyardsale]

Oh god, wtf is campus crusade? That sounds terrifying.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

@@blackmarketyardsale 🤣

[@somedonkus_]

He would be best friends with Darth Dawkins

[@stephenc9217]

Jmike rules....and I wish I could grow a 'stache half as good as his....

[@rrpostalagain]

So happy he was allowed to talk. Matt is actually starting to allow others to get frustrated.

[@chiefreficul9774]

when will ppl learn not to mix ignorance with arrogance?🤦🏿‍♂️

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

The day I eat a chocolate twinky.

[@mg-fx5dn]

It’s the American way!

[@fisheyenomiko]

Sadly, the one often leads to the other...

[@bjkarana]

When the swish sound isn't the ball getting nothing but net, but rather the ball going into a trashcan.

[@greenjelly01]

He must have been a great kid to his parents... "You have to give me candy. The contrary is just impossible."

[@robertlewis9132]

When you combine ignorance with arrogance you get this guy.

[@CMDRRustyDog]

What a huge self-important tool that guy was. He had zero clue about logic.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

0%

[@CMDRRustyDog]

@@Sinless_Stone_Caster By coincidence, that's just how much your comment mattered.

[@JeffBedrick]

I'm calling troll on this one. The combination of comical arrogance with a complete lack of any coherent argument just doesn't pass the smell test.

[@real.evidence]

JMike brings the Modus Tollens argument of logic. ☺️ I recommend everyone know the Modus Ponens and Modus Tollens arguments of logic. They are simple and fundamental arguments of logic. 👍

[@johnkerr1113]

correct... just commented with a mathematic PhD who was ecstatic that JMike referred to Modus Tollens...!!

[@Inigo_The_Son]

That "swish" sound was his brain being flushed down the toilet, a common side effect of religion.

[@bruceb6529]

Forever Always Inverting True History

[@merbst]

I once had no respect at all for apologists, then I discovered Presuppositionalists, and now not only do I continue to have no respect whatsoever for apologists as people, nor for their arguments.but also I now have a powerful rebuttal to the claim that Religion is not a manifestation of mental illness!

[@kenjoe]

In Canada we have this thing called 'Cabin Fever', where someone who has spent far too long in isolation develop strange mental conditions. For example, some start believing that the trees talk to them. Others just become unhinged and believe they are the leader of the entire world. Cabin Fever generally appears during or after a long winter, so it is early right now in September, but MacGruber appears to have already succumbed to the condition. I apologize to all for his ramblings, and remind you that Canada does have excellent health care - hopefully his relatives will see that he gets what he needs, as soon as the snow drifts that have isolated him disappear.

[@kellydalstok8900]

Maybe it was the Summer heat that kept him indoors.

[@sir1769]

First time I have seen JMike, really look forward to seeing him more often!

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

Zeus is real, MacGruber is just surpressing it...swish

[@michaelreindel6975]

Basically, “God is necessary, therefore God exists. *Swish!* It has been revealed! *Truth!* (I don’t need to prove it!) And stop bullying me!” …is this caller for real, or just trolling? 🤷🏼‍♂️ Like, that’s just about the *worst* “apologetic” [?] I’ve ever heard, and yet he’s so *weirdly* proud of himself. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@biekgiek]

It’s almost as if there’s no difference between apologist and troll rhetoric.

[@bpdmf2798]

Dude said swish but came out like Nic Claxton at the free throw line.

[@prestongiles9917]

"Look, its in the bible!" "*WHAT'S* in the bible?" "I don't know, doesn't that always cover it somehow?"

[@puckerings]

Long time since I've heard a presup. I haven't missed them.

[@shanewilson7994]

It really fell out of favor when Matt debated Sye and exposed him and his arguments for as bad as they are. But I have noticed them slowly sneaking back up to being popular again.

[@mattgeer4778]

so sorry to see Matt still needs the eye patch, get well Matt, the world needs you

[@quagmavideos]

He totally rocks the eye patch, at least.

[@49perfectss]

God for sure doesn't exist and I don't have to defend that statement because everyone already knows it to be true. Seriously is anyone impressed with this childishness?

[@Orsonfoe]

The thiest are. They are so sure that the right and already won the argument that they already got a party going to accept you when you crawl back for their " godly graces". Than they get so mad when no one shows up or even entertains their delusions.

[@dawkins5824]

I am impressed of how childish your reasoning is. You’re the world champion of fallacious reasoning.

[@Doctor180185]

The moon exists, cheese exists, therefore the moon is made of cheese. Swish!

[@LordBeegers]

OMG I can't believe Matt knows the ol' "Boot to the Head" skit. He didn't quite remember the name, which was Ed Gruberman. 1000 points still.

[@anthonymitchell9793]

Am I the only one who has noticed an exponential growth in the number of presuppositionalists on social media? I can't even have a discussion with a theist because they just duck, Dodge, and tap dance.

[@dandotvid]

2+2=5. Everyone knows this. You're just suppressing it.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

🤣

[@garyking9484]

Imagine a world where ALL adults outgrow imaginary friends and gods

[@canderson5098]

I'm surprised he didn't follow up "Swish" with "Nothing but net" to achieve full dorkitude.

[@Sinless_Stone_Caster]

😂

[@AxeGaijin]

This is the same as going in to a debate and your only argument is "You're wrong".

[@puckerings]

Poe's Law hits HARD when it comes to presups. I really can't tell if this guy is a troll or not.

[@williamswaney2615]

MacGruber trying Darth Dawkins' playbook here.

[@DefendUrPolicyDontScapegoatLie]

“It’s real because I was told it’s real” What a spoiled brat. The US in a nutshell.

[@Dhamma_Nomad]

The presuppositional argument at its foundation can be summed up as follows: “You can’t presuppose anything but I get to presuppose God. Na-na na-na boo-boo stick your head in doo-doo.”

[@BootBizarre]

MacGruber thinks he 'swished', but all he did was hit the bottom of the net without going through the hoop. *_MISS!_* 🤣

I have no words about this call...O M G

[@snuffyballparks6501]

Darth clone McGruber might well explode from being full of himself. And his swish was actually an air ball.

[@IsBeingHello]

I’m so weak hahaha how did the live audience not bust out laughing at “swish”??? Hahahahahahaha😂

[@ingoatwetrust8086]

Then i heard a Swish... now i'm a believer! 😂😂

[@fisheyenomiko]

Not a trace/Of thought in my mind! I'm in...doctrinated!

[@ingoatwetrust8086]

@@fisheyenomiko take it away miko 😂

[@simonbelmont5801]

MacGruber getting absolutely dunked on was some juicy irony. 🤣

[@jeremybr2020]

I've heard Matt say many crazy and awesome things. But "Bring it on bitch, I'm ready." may be a first. lol Loving it. 😄

[@geelee1977]

I have never seen anybody 0wn themselves more than McGruber just 0wned himself🤣🤣😂🤣😅🤣🤣

[@philpaine3068]

Talking to presuppositionalist con-artists is always a tiresome waste of time. I just tell them that I know that THEY know that their presuppositionalism is a fraud, that they know that what they are claiming isn't true, and that they are just suppressing their knowledge of their own dishonesty.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

That’s not an argument at all lol

[@philpaine3068]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 It's not intended as an argument, because presuppositionalists are not making an argument to answer with an argument, and have no interest in arguing. They simply make a declaration that they are right and have to be right because they say they are right. There's no point in engaging in any debate with them, any more than there's any point in debating a rock or a tree. Their main thrill is watching you flounder around trying to answer them so they can walk away triumphantly without having to demonstrate anything. So might as well head them off with your own "presuppositions" and at least deprive them of their thrill. It's equivalent to responding to a Three-card Monty trickster by pulling out a deck of cards and telling him you'll play his game if he wins YOUR Three-card Monty. Anyway, I'm right about this. I know I'm right because "i" Paines are always right and "y" Paynes are always wrong! I presuppose it!

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@philpaine3068 They do make arguments: God is the necessary precondition for knowledge, ethics, and transcendentals, I utilized all 3 to make the very statement itself, Therefore God exists.

[@philpaine3068]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 That is NOT an argument. It's just an assertion. There is no evidence given whatsoever that a God is the necessary precondition for knowledge, ethics or "transcendentals". There is no reason to accept this assertion. Zero. It's just an assertion based on absolutely nothing. And it "works" in the same way any other arbitrary proclamation does: "Vishnu's protection of dharma is necessary for the existence of knowlege and the cosmic order, therefore Vishnu exists." "A supernatural realm of demons is necessary for knowledge and ethics to exist, therefore the supernatural realm of demons, commanded by Shubshub Mekapura, exists." "Without female shamans connecting us to the spirit world, there is no way for us to have knowledge or make moral choices, therefore female shamans are connected to the spirit world" "If our ancestors are not revered and allowed to guide us through supernatural means, then there can be no wisdom and the upholding of righteousness and the moral disposition to do good cannot exist, therefore we must revere our ancestors and ignore gods." You have not made any argument whatsoever. Like these other examples, you have just made an arbitrary declaration without anything even resembling an argument. The word "transcendental" is nothing but gibberish, a claim that things are somehow magical and unaccountable to reason, and this cannot be an element of a reasoned argument. It's use just means that you are abandoning reason. You are just pretending. Your religious beliefs have nothing whatsoever to do with reason and are not determined by any arguments. You merely pretend to use arguments to justify something you already believe and for which you will not be convinced otherwise by any argument. It is merely a pretense of using reason and making arguments, like holding out your arms and saying "swoosh" while pretending to be flying a jet plane.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@philpaine3068 my guy you need to learn to condense these replies, i am not reading all this grandstanding. It is an argument, it could be rephrased in a syllogism such as: X is the necessary condition for Y Y, Then X. You are welcome to try to present a worldview which can coherently account for ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology which does not begin with the Christian God, That would be a way to prove me wrong.

[@bradywomack9751]

Swish. The sound of his brain falling out of his pants.

[@magicofjafo]

When anyone presupposes that a god exists, I just presuppose that they're wrong.

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

You are almost understanding the argument, so ill get you the rest of the way: the argument to presuppose that God doesn’t exist destroys the possibility of knowledge, ethics, and transcendental categories all of which you utilize to ask the question and debate in the first place.

[@magicofjafo]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 and I presuppose that **with** God, we can't have knowledge, ethics, and transcendental categories all of which you use to make your own prepositions in the first place. So you presuppose that God is needed for intelligibility and I presuppose that intelligibility is impossible with God. How do we determine which of our positions is correct?

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@magicofjafo Just to be clear: God is the presupposition, not that God is necessary for knowledge, transcendentals etc. that is the argument. We can use arguments and rational discussion to determine whether a worldview that lacks God as it’s presupposition is capable of justifying knowledge, ethics, and transcendental categories.

[@magicofjafo]

@@tnyw872621h8474h9 if God is the presupposition, then why provide **any** arguments? He just exists, right? No arguments should be needed. So we're back to you presupposing that he exists and I presuppose that he doesn't. How do we know which of us is correct?

[@tnyw872621h8474h9]

@@magicofjafo Because as I said if you were to presuppose that he doesn’t exist, you would be unable to make arguments because you worldview would lack the basic intelligibility needed for knowledge, ethics, and metaphysics.

[@Kalopsia666]

I think from now on if you talk to a presupper just accuse them of molesting children. When they freak out at that accusation tell them it was revealed to you. And when they inevitably say “prove it” tell them you don’t have to and then proclaim “SWISH”