Mach-E: Battery Tray and Battery Cell Features

Sandy is back in action with Ben as they dig deeper into the Mach-E battery tray and the individual battery cells.
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E - E16
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Outro:
Music from KZbin Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video
#ford #battery #mache

[@Chucka1463]

"As they grow older they need a little more space." Yeah, me too.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

Yes, even my skull seems larger with age!

[@billyhouse1943]

Thank you…

[@MarioDallaRiva]

Lightening round, coming soon to Munro Live!

[@jairokg]

Yooooooo. You all are fast

[@jairokg]

Well, I’m also driving! 👨‍🦽

[@mgmacius]

Guys, please! This is absolutely wrong! The thermal compound is NOT helping with the transfer of heat. As a matter of fact it’s more of a thermal insulation than anything else. The reason it’s used is to enlarge the thermal transfer area by plugging all the little holes and imperfections. So the idea is you use it to kinda glue two components together. Theoretically you could create two surfaces so flat and even that the compound would be unnecessary, but it’s too complicated and way too costly to do so.

[@mntbighker]

Not that they are using it here, but isn't there a thermal transfer enhancing compound (based on tire black of all things)? I recall this from an article on CPU cooling.

[@mgmacius]

@@mntbighker well, I am not entirely sure what you are referring to, but in general. Silver - 429 W/m*K Copper - 398 W/m*K Aluminum - 247 W/m*K (most heat sinks are made of it!) Arctic Silver, one of the better ones, contains a lot of silver. Guess what? 9. Yes. 9. That’s 40+ times less than pure silver. Thermal Grizzly crazy paste for crazy money (33 grams for over a hundred euro) - 14.2

[@fabriziom]

This is absolutely right no wonder why it's called a gap filler ! Best versions of it usually deliver around 3 W.m-1.K-1 AND remove any air that's in between the surfaces. So overall better contact than a alu/alu direct contact ...

[@JWest1]

where can I buy these modules? I want to build an electric motorcycle and man, batteries of this type are almost impossible to come across. But I want to use these pouch cells in my build so I can have better power distribution.

[@Pikminiman]

I was a little worried that Munro Live would stagnate after the Model Y teardown series wrapped up, but it turns out I just love engineering porn, and this channel is probably the best out there. The insights we get for free from this channel are highly valuable.

[@bluetoad2668]

It's great but remember that's it's not for free, the KZbin algorithm and therefore Google and so Alphabet have sold your attention to the advertisers which you see on the platform - that's the business model. Munro live is great content but nothing on this platform is free.

[@detyelram2819]

@@bluetoad2668 true. But then you can just develop the power to literally ignore all ads

[@ronaldlenz5745]

Ben, you're getting a lot more comfortable in front of the camera! Keep up the good work.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks, will do!

[@namenotshown9277]

I dont want to be toooo harsh, but there are some big gaps in knowledge of these guys on lithium cells. To suggest they are going to make improvements to these packs but dont understand some basics says something about the authors. Two bits of misinformation given in this video: 1. the cells over time recharge themselves chemically.......nope doesn't happen. If you discharge a cell down to its minimum voltage ( not wanting to damage the cell), you might go down to say 2.5v......the pack will still have alot of voltage in it after discharge. If you fully discharge the cells down to zero volts, they wont be re-usable, they will be permanently damaged. To say they were discharged by professionals? sure guys 2. the rubber mats inbetween cells they said were to cater for the swelling of cells with age.......nope wrong again. The cells expand contract on each cycle depending on state of charge. Its a constant thing not just after aging. Very important to keep this in mind in design, if the cells cant swell there will be alot of pressure in that pack. Its one of the ongoing issues of lithium cell design: how to cater for the swelling. it damages the carbon anode in the cells causing cracking, hence research towards alternatives to carbon anode layer on the copper. Also some temp effects on swelling but mainly related to lithium ion transfer as far as I know. I sometimes find it curious that people want to show themselves to be experts, but in reality they are learning as they go. Anyone can teardown stuff and critique it, to actually design and build stuff is another matter completely.

[@brianb-p6586]

In addition to cyclic changes, pouch cells do grow in thickness with age... according to at least one cell manufacturer. They should have mentioned the changes in each cycle, not just aging.

[@genzigzag]

Love geeking out with Uncle Sandy and the team. Look forward to every upload! Always learning something new.

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching, Zak!

[@rick67hou]

I hit that notification faster than I do my chores.

[@zlcoolboy]

Cant be that fast then! :p

[@djwarren5081]

Me too. I really look forward to the next exciting episode of Munro Live.

[@djwarren5081]

Makes Sandy and Ben sound like Batman and Robin 🤣

[@gacherumburu9958]

😂😁

[@mikeselectricstuff]

7:10 That's not a ribbon cable, it's a flexible PCB

[@Urgelt]

That's what it looks like to me, too.

[@ericsandberg3167]

In the Aero business we used to call them flex tapes.

[@torcek1991]

and its more expensive than a rigid pcb

[@martylawson1638]

@@torcek1991 Looks like it's riveted directly to the cell-interconnects with the flexibility taking up tolerances. Not needing connectors at each interconnect probably balances out the cost.

[@TheJoeSwanon]

@@ericsandberg3167 it’s amazing how many manufacturing techniques from the aerospace industry they are using to make more efficient EV‘s

[@johnb7430]

Full stop, watch munro... Hey, Sandy! Can you go over the differences between pouches and cylinder cells. Things like energy per volume, energy/kg, ability to use as structural component, etc?

[@psdaengr911]

Higher energy capacity possible per unit means fewer cells Battery weight can be lower but harder to package cells a way that can provide structural support for a vehicle.

[@Conservator.]

There’s this wonderful new tool on the internet called Google but PS was very kind to answer your question.

[@bluetoad2668]

Well, Tesla's engineers decided against them - but what do they know?

[@fenderstratguy]

@@psdaengr911 Ive read the pouch-style cells can swell….not when they were old, but in normal use. Is that true

[@Fix_It_Again_Tony]

Watch this video: www.eevblog.com/2020/10/02/eevblog-1340-new-tesla-4680-battery-cell-explained/

[@djwarren5081]

Does anyone else think that Sandy looks more like Albert Einstein every episode?

[@koolsolutionszx12r55]

Don't slam Albert like that. Sandy is a hack! I just watch him to remind me who the dirt bag is that's cheapened American cars to the point of junk. He needs a box of bolts rammed up his back side

[@psdaengr911]

He does, but he's not. I wish he'd shave and act his age. He's only 72., my age, and he looks and acts +10 years older.

[@djwarren5081]

@@psdaengr911 he thinks young though. Always thinking of ways to innovate. I like that. Long may it continue.

[@rzu7120]

No

[@djwarren5081]

@@rzu7120 you need to see an optician 😎

[@laurencejenner1127]

“Batteries from LG with a similar setup to the Chevy Bolt?” Uh, cause for concern right there - a good chance your Mach-E will catch fire or have its DC fast charging capability nerfed in the future, just like Kona, Bolt and Ioniq. No thanks.

[@djhepcat_]

Can someone please speak to this? How/If the LG design has changed since their issues?

[@LauwersFreddy]

Sandy, you have an amazing team! Thank you for making these videos!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching, Freddy!

[@spencer04629]

Looking forward to hearing about the new battery tray designed by your team

[@ADOENDRA]

Industrial design is like cooking " you mix the best of everything " ;-)

[@Barskor1]

It will be Tray Magnifique!

[@DaveBoxBG]

this thermal paste turns into chalk after 5-6 years...

[@morrisg]

Same stuff that's holding your home computer cpu to it's heatsink. Do you own computers older than 5-6 years? Mine seem to be working fine.

[@DaveBoxBG]

@@morrisg yes and I change the paste every 6 years, try that on a EV battery :D

[@EEGworld]

They send their batteries out to discharge them ? ? ? Can't assemble a simple resistor bank or even a digital electronic load ?

[@fredbloggs5902]

There may be liability issues.

[@TechnicalLee]

Yes, but the expertise in handling is what they are paying for. Too easy to have a wire or tab touch something it shouldn't unless you are paying 100% attention and know what can go wrong. It's like defusing a bomb, it's easy to snip wires but knowing which one and what order is the hard part.

[@fredbloggs5902]

@@TechnicalLee Well, one is a kind of greyish-blue and the other one is a kind of er, bluish-grey...

[@markplott4820]

NICK, Tesla can discharge on site and charge other packs with battery.

[@alioshaalex2764]

200k subscribers in 1.3 years, Good !

[@flashback9966]

Lovely understatment from Sandy, 'death can ruin your day'

[@niravsheth4917]

Are you concerned that Mach-E might face similar battery issues as the Bolt if they are using similar modules?

[@carholic-sz3qv]

Nope, the issues might actually come from the bolt management system.

[@johnpublicprofile6261]

My guess is that the Bolt problem is a bad battery batch from LG. This would explain the failed fixes as GM try every work around that they can to avoid the immense cost of full battery pack replacement. A newer batch of batteries from LG should not have the same problem.

[@crtmojo2705]

@@johnpublicprofile6261 I am thinking it’s a software or hardware issue with their charging and power control.

[@Miata822]

Some Mach Es have already gone in for battery replacements. Replacing not repairing. I think Ford either wants whole units back to autopsy, but maybe just doesn't trust dealers to do the repair yet. I'm following this on the Mach E forum. I find it telling that the upcoming Ford Lightning electric pickup is using SK batteries.

[@crtmojo2705]

@@Miata822 yeah I thought SK was their supplier but they did have that lawsuit so they probably went with LG to get the first batch out.

[@lonsk5496]

It is noticeable that the assembly of packaged batteries is difficult to automate. It is very difficult to ensure the quality of the assembly of the cells. (Based on the experience of Kona and Bolt)

[@markplott4820]

FORD is using OUTDATED pouch LION cells from the Laptop industry , not ideal. SANDY says Cylinder LION is Superior.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@markplott4820 Go and talk to Warren.

[@vidznstuff1]

That was a Tesla talking point. Packagingwise, they're a nightmare which is why Tesla is going to the much larger cell size

[@morrisg]

Watch this automated assembly of cells to bus bar sheet: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZixZJ-MebSSoJY

[@brianb-p6586]

@@markplott4820 That's hilarious - the 18650 format of cylindrical cells were taken straight from laptops.

[@dtomaz1]

That’s a lot of fluid carrying rubber hose, hose clamps & push connectors inside the sealed battery pack. Service nightmare if a clamp or o-ring leaks.

[@brandoYT]

6 connectors for cooling EACH tray ??? color me confused - 6 holes but 1 or 2 quick tube connects. confused.

[@marcm1088]

since when is a flexible PCB less expensive than a FR4 PCB?

[@psdaengr911]

A one sided one can be. The process for mass production using continuous fed plastic ribbon requires less material handling than rigid board. Ribbon can be punched and cut to odd shaped with lower cost tooling than rigid board. Flexible boards can connect to directly to other nonplanar components, eliminating added connectors and harnesses.

[@Merlmabase]

Haha, kudos to Sandy for giving due credit to the Japanese. Bob Barker was a filthy plagiarist. Also, I'll take all the intern b-roll you care to throw at me

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

Thats a nicely designed battery pack. Not bad for a first real try by Ford.

[@vidznstuff1]

Likely an LG design...

[@harrychu650]

Has Munro Live provided any theories and thoughts around the Norway reports that Mach-E EVs are overheating going downhill? How about the various news stories around Mach-E EVs being "Bricked" due to software updates. If the Mach-E uses -- seemingly -- the same LG batteries as the Bolt, shouldn't he address the fire defect that GM is currently managing through? Or is he mainly focused on traditional mechanical engineering / door gap fit and finish? Does Munro still recommend this EV?

[@zxggwrt]

IDK about Sandy but I wouldn't want one. As a rule it's not a good idea to be the first to buy a new product. Most honest engineers will secretly agree.

[@fabriziom]

No worries for the machE batteries. The cells are built in Poland in the same factory and inner design than Audi ETron, Porsche Taycan, Jaguar I pace... None of them catched fire. The module construction is similar to the Bolt EV, but the cell is far better constructed.

[@fabriziom]

@@harrychu650 you're right but nothing due to the cells to my understanding. Issue with voltage peaks due to the weak on board charger trying to do 110V -> 800V. No fire in Europe where it did 240V-> 800V but I may be wrong....

[@dickdaley9059]

“…and keep tipping those cashiers…”

[@elektrotehnik94]

Sandy, you be yourself & don't compromise on things that are important to you. We love you just the way you are

[@AWESEM0]

@@elektrotehnik94 just mentioned the same ... Forget what Kori's is suggesting and keep Munro as it was

[@julianriise5618]

If you turn down the intro music 3-5 decibel, I think it'd be perfect!

[@Obeisance-oh6pn]

no. it was perfect. it was loud enough to give the music its full voice. -- but what was the music used? it was not appropriately attributed in the notes

[@dayhillbilly]

Sad how Sandy is trying to downplay the non-American competitors at every turn. It doesn't matter whether the VW ID.4 has bigger heat sink than the Ford, or smaller, it's worse in any case. Ford's "thermal system nightmare"... still better better than ID.4. And so on.

[@bobwill]

Hey, Ford's system is perfect. _Just don't drive around hills_

[@davidelliott5843]

This battery construction makes a stack of 18650 or 2170 cells look simple by comparison.

[@brianb-p6586]

I guess you've never seen a Tesla battery, which has modules (like this) with fluid connections to every module, and layers of structure to hold everything together. There's little difference in complexity.

[@ipcress20]

The 52 second intro of the disassembly taking place could easily be extended for many minutes. It's fascinating! Thanks as always, Sandy, Ben and team.

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@TheElectricMan]

Awesome, Finally the video we've all been waiting for!

[@MunroLive]

Hope you enjoyed it!

[@johnmolloy4878]

Similar to the Bolt prismatic battery cells? Uh Oh...

[@markplott4820]

Clearly, these are LG pouch cells.

[@markplott4820]

Prismatic cells look different, and the modules look like 12v battery.

[@johnmolloy4878]

@@markplott4820 sorry I meant pouch...

[@vidznstuff1]

Oh oh what. Neither car has any issues with these cells.

[@ESGFishing]

Love watching things get reverse engineered

[@peterpet77rp]

I like the idea of coming up with a battery by pooling different ideas. Being exposed to all different technology, shouldn't you have a R & D arm to your business? Where you can sell new innovative ideas to companies. Not sure if you already do that

[@giga-chicken]

"These cells have been discharged already, that's why we can touch them" That's not why you can touch them. A single cell is only 4 volts fully charged, as long as you don't short the cell or damage it then it's safe enough. A discharged cell still has enough energy to start a fire, so the precautions are the same either way. "We send them out to have it done, we don't have that capability here." That also doesn't make sense, I discharged one of these using a space heater (which is just a 9.8ohm resistor) and a multimeter. If you have 30 bucks you have the space heater, and if you don't already have a multimeter you shouldn't be handling a battery.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

Love the channel, but you should consider getting a EE on staff that can talk about the electronics from an electrical perspective. Love the assembly/manufacturing perspective but a skilled electrical/electronics engineer to dig into the EE details.

[@Lonewolf201011]

So, wait, if the Mach-E is using the same batteries as the Bolt, will Mach-E's start lighting on fire soon like the Bolts are today? Are the differences in the battery enough to have fixed the Bolt's problem?

[@GriffinPearson]

“A minimum amount of aluminum” Say that five times fast hahah

[@T1Oracle]

Seems easy to me...

[@Findalfen]

I failed after 3: "amuminum" 😂

[@zxggwrt]

A minimum, a modicum of many mini strips of all alloy aluminum. Try that😎

[@psdaengr911]

pronounce it as AL U Min E Um.

[@psdaengr911]

that that that that that

[@louisphuard5020]

Best automotive show. Period. Munro over Clarkson any time.

[@Merlmabase]

I'm curious - are there any built-in protection features at the cell level? Overcurrent, over/under-voltage? Or is that redundant when you have a sophisticated BMS managing the whole pack?

[@fredbloggs5902]

Great question, my understanding is that different cells can degrade at different rate, so they need smart charging down to the cell level. But I have no idea if anybody actually does that.

[@TheBusyDaddy]

Same concern since the battery is similar to Chevy Bolt and the multiple Bolt fire caused by charging. The Bolts that had battery fire issues were from 2019 and earlier so let's hope Ford is up to sniff with their software and hardware .

[@fabriziom]

Cell voltage is always the same for the ones in parallel. So never at a single cell level but by rows of 2 here on these modules. You cannot charge the cells independantly. Current flows in series from the tabs, and only time with deep discharge or high charge can rebalance things. The BMS can track this, but cannot correct it independantly. Just imagine a bath tub with multiple cavities that have slightly different levels. It's only when you reach the top that you can balance all cavities...

[@brianb-p6586]

Just like every other EV, the BMS handles the cell at the lowest parallel group level; individual cells in a group function as a single larger cell.

[@RobertoGonzalez-bg3zh]

Anyone else bothered by the possibility of a piece of road debris striking the bottom of the cooling plate and deforming it or worse getting punctured. I don’t trust of the Mach-e has enough protection there

[@MrBadgas]

Excellent review guys. I am encouraged by what Ford has done on the Mach-E. I hope they can manage to be flexible and act quickly to evolve this and other vehicles. Your comparisons shed so much light on competing designs. I sure hope you sell your upcoming "composite design" I can only imagine how positive that would be for all OEMs. One this is for sure, you are helping advance the development of EV design in a BIG way.

[@ploppyploppy6554]

Friday satisfaction and I didn't lift a finger .

[@610Alpha]

Glossed over the leak potential in the battery cooling but not with the motor cooling.

[@nv1493]

I keep thinking about the multitude of coolant connections nestled into a high voltage environment......

[@fred993a]

Sandy - You and you team are an engineering university! Thank you!

[@wolkowicki1]

i so understand why ford battery tray is the way it is because they still dialing in a tray that can go into all of there different vans/cars/SUVs/crossovers. with Sandy help they can become the number 2 player in the future of cars and trucks. I see we will have the small hypocars brands. then we have a tesla with pushing everyone else like the Iphone. then we have the Android of cars the Rivian and Ford. like we used to have honda and toyota

[@twany442]

I think the impact from the Ford F-150 Lightning is going to be way more impactful than the Rivian.

[@vidznstuff1]

Yeah...cuz Sandy is smarter than the Ford & engineering engineering collective.

[@hallkbrdz]

I agree, that's a pretty good design with a lot less assembly work than a 21700 or 18650 Tesla tray with all the aluminum ribbon cooling paths. Love these videos - you are doing a great job!

[@whowhy9023]

Occasional fires a small drawdown? This can never really be structural, bags are not structural… the case yes but that is extra weight.

[@bluetoad2668]

Be careful there, Tesla batteries have proven themselves over millions of miles, it's the most critical part of a BEV and it has to be right. My single biggest reason for going with Tesla is the high confidence I have in their tech and the no. 1 part is the battery.

[@spleck615]

Thanks Sandy and crew, great breakdown!

[@EVBuddy69]

With ya Kevin, love ya driving vids...

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure, Kevin!

[@spleck615]

@@EVBuddy69 thanks :) appreciate the support

[@Wingman77tws]

fully discharging the batteries and ruining it is so silly. those modules are only 22v each as shown in the video... not a big deal at all. I work with the 10s modules out of the bolt all the time.

[@ahmedlotfy8972]

I always thought that fully discharging a lithium battery is damaging to the battery.

[@geraldh.8047]

I think they are intentionally destroying them, not planning to reuse them. Which is kind of sad, but I guess this is what they normally do when they take a car apart?

[@brianb-p6586]

@@geraldh.8047 Nothing that enters that shop ever operates again.

[@TheJoeSwanon]

For their first crack at manufacturing an EV it seems like Ford did a really impressive job.

[@MarkLLawrence]

Ford Focus Electric: I guess I don't count then 😥 Ford Ranger Electric: They never counted me 😉

[@rmkilc]

Ford has been making vehicles for decades and hybrids for 15+ years. They know what they are doing. You can tell serviceability and recyclability are considerations in their designs.

[@markplott4820]

JOE - FORD did not build the car, LG did.

[@EELinneman]

@@markplott4820 Funny that. The factory in Mexico has Ford signs and logos all over and they are Ford employees.

[@dmandman9]

@@MarkLLawrence the ranger electric wasn’t a serious effort. I compare it to GM’s EV1. They were mostly leased, then returned and destroyed. Ford even stopped listing them in our repair manuals. It’s like they never existed. The Focus was a decent effort though. They didn’t sell well. But they’re out there. And ford still publishes the service manual. So I actually consider them to be the first REAL effort. The Mach e seems to be the first that they actually WANT to sell

[@trevorbickle821]

It seems like tesla with the 4680 cells and cooling system will be a really good way in efficiency standpoint. PS great video

[@Avboden]

Given the Bolt was just recalled *again* for battery fires, it may not be a good thing this is so similar to the Bolt's!

[@unitrader403]

Just read a video title today (didn't get around to watch the video yet) and it seems it's a manufacturing defect from LG, so construction method is unrelated to the Bolt fires.

[@vidznstuff1]

No fires with these cells

[@GiovanniEsposito5]

Very informative video as always, thanks! The cooling system looks better than anticipated... Will you please weight all the bus bars and balancing cables? It will be interesting... :-D

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@w4csc stop talking nonsense, its not a super hot/high pressure piping system compared to ICE cooling.

[@mntbighker]

Regardless, there must be a better way than using all those individual connectors. Clearly the future will not look anything like this. I'm thinking the cooling solution may end up looking like a giant laptop CPU cooler. But that's just a paper napkin idea.

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@@mntbighker by using things like gallium the electronic may be made way safer and reliable

[@vidznstuff1]

Gallium? Are you an idiot or a PhD?

[@human_brian]

Given GM and Hyundai Motor Group's recent issues with LG Chem pouch cells, I'd be seriously worried about the long term safety of this battery pack. Ford needs to do some serious testing on these cells to make sure they aren't going to cause vehicle fires as they have in Hyundai and Chevy's EVs.

[@bluetoad2668]

They don't care, it's a tiny portion of their business.

[@trengilly01]

It seems so odd that they made the 1st bay slightly smaller than the other 4. I would have thought making all five identical would have been easier and a little extra battery wouldn't hurt range.

[@jamesengland7461]

And there's empty space in that bay as well

[@brianb-p6586]

The pack tapers at the front a bit so the vehicle structure can tuck in for the front wheels. Many packs have a few modules of a different size to make the packaging work, and to reach the desired total cell count.

[@testbild9652]

Yeah, first 😊

[@prblakeslee]

What does Ford/LG use for their terminating connectors of the module ribbon cable? I need to get hold of 4 of the male connectors. Thanks

[@prblakeslee]

Forgot to mention question is in context to the 10S3P modules.

[@richpalmisano1740]

I really like the cell design with respect to the thermal management but much like the cooling system, they have way too much copper busbar in there. Like they didnt even attempt to plan a better option...

[@zxggwrt]

I think that's all you can do when your packing modules like those. Unless they were designed to be connected corner to corner like a string of 9 volt batteries. I should patent that LoL

[@fabriziom]

Yep i agree there's too much. However, need to be careful with copper section to avoid heating by joule effect with quite some amperage

[@elliottslab]

feels like way to many pipe connectors for me each one is a leak opportunity

[@Conservator.]

I thought so too but the whole package will not move much so I don’t think it’ll be a problem.

[@RayNLA]

A video on the Lightning will bring another 200k subscribers in short order.

[@markplott4820]

Unfortunately, the Lightning is a POS truck.

[@RayNLA]

@@markplott4820 Glad you liked it!

[@djwarren5081]

Very interesting to see how different manufacturers go about producing a similar product.

[@markplott4820]

Very FEW can copy Tesla, except RIVIAN and LUCID. all other LEGACY OEM are using OUTDATED Lion pouch battery from the Laptop industry, not ideal

[@ninjakille316]

Mache-E is beginning making me begin to doubt the overall superiority of cylindrical cells, I can't wait to see your best of best design. Hats off to the Ford team and hats off to Munro and associates.

[@zxggwrt]

These pouches are def better and as they learn to get good connections and control swelling they will take over. I personally think they should wire them in spirals to cut down on collectors and bus bars.

[@videcomp]

I deal with a lot of batteries mostly pouch style but also cylindrical cells in industrial equipment. Seen several thermal runaways and caused one myself. I have a healthy fear of anyone or any machine handling pouches. Give me a good strong can any day.

[@MarkXHolland]

@@videcomp Amen to that.

[@ninjakille316]

@@videcomp Perhaps the foam in between the poach cells does more than just compensate for the expansion. kulrtechnology.com/hydra-thermal-runaway-shield/

[@toddw3nzel639]

@@videcompthanks for the reassurance. I’ve seen the trend is to move away from pouches towards cylindrical or prismatic.

[@jimbert50]

What is the status of the Tesla Plaid delivery?

[@E11i0T88]

They just took the money and are waiting for yall to forget about it lol

[@AWESEM0]

"should I do the Kori's thing" NO you shouldn't, grow by merit, people loved it more when you asked us to tip those cashier's...

[@ronaldlenz5745]

The LG Chem battery cells and modules look a lot more expensive to manufacture and assemble than Tesla. Also, GM recalled 69,000 Bolts today for faulty battery packs.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

More customers are starting to ask for a buyback

[@vidznstuff1]

1) They're not more expensive 2) Only the mid 2019 and older cars were recalled, not "69,000" This car f*cked up your $tsla stock price. Doubtful they go up from here and will get pushed into a niche corner within a decade.

[@oisiaa]

The Chevy Bolt was just recalled over concerns of LG battery fires. Not good for the Mach-E!!

[@fabriziom]

No worries for the machE batteries. The cells are built in Poland in the same factory and inner design than Audi ETron, Porsche Taycan, Jaguar I pace... None of them catched fire. The module construction is similar to the Bolt EV, but the cell is far better constructed.

[@newscoulomb3705]

9:00 After you've separated the cells like that, you're not dealing with voltages high enough to require PPE. I'd still wear basic gloves, but that's only to prevent contaminants.

[@vidznstuff1]

Yeah. That was a dumbass remark. Even a fully charged module is modest in voltage (around 40V)

[@altonriggs2352]

Love this channel. The media is dead asleep. The future is here.

[@Firestorm637]

Love the explanation with very knowledgeable tesms

[@MrPabloInUSA]

Maybe Sandy can record a "please like & subscribe and tip your cashiers" piece that can be part of the outro for all videos.

[@fredbloggs5902]

Doing it fresh in every video has a higher response rate.

[@TechExplorer546]

Why do you all wear jackets in the summer?

[@EVBuddy69]

Your playing plinko with your cooling system. Who know where the cooling goes....

[@markplott4820]

ZONK !

[@edwardjones856]

The Ford battery cooling system is not that good. Cool fluid removing heat on one half of the battery and heated fluid on the other half and vice versa during cold weather. The primary heat removal system needs to be 80% of the surface area and the return fluid can occupy the edges. Not that hard to design a plate type heat exchanger to do this.

[@vidznstuff1]

Cost is an engineering constraint. You sound like a PhD or total amateur

[@edwardjones856]

@@vidznstuff1 I have a lot of experience in many things. One of them is that I am a good plumber. It would be easy to make a proper heat exchanger that would a. cheaper and b. remove more heat

[@roscothefirst4712]

His sidekick is nervous, hopefully he'll get over that with practice. Difficult to present seamlessly like Sandi does, but he was probably the same way when he started.

[@fabriziom]

So it's basically a larger Bolt design. Far too many parts, assemblies... the MEB pack looks simpler with its extruded aluminum modules. However, these extruded modules have one additional layer of thermally conductive gap filler, an inner insulation that's coated, and welded end caps making it tough to disassemble. So it's a trade off, clearly!

[@tedbaxter5234]

Looking forward to seeing your Best of the Best Battery Mach-up. Pun intended! Really enjoy these videos - progress is made in small measures over time.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Would you like fries with that? (Subtle Hyundai, GM ref?)

[@inediblenut]

I would imagine that these companies have patents on almost every aspect of their designs, so it will be interesting if you take the best ideas from each to make a better, cheaper battery. Better factor in some significant royalty costs for that bad boy.

[@marinepoof]

Looks like Munro need an Electrical Engineer on his staff so they can actually know what the parts they are looking at are.

[@vidznstuff1]

Or a technician. Don't need an engineer to recognize basic components.

[@brianb-p6586]

To be fair, they do have technically competent staff... the problem as with any company is getting the presenter to say the right things.

[@Hoggdoc1946]

It was interesting to see that LG's packs are using the same type of cells as I have used in electric model aircraft, while Tesla continues to use individual cells like 18650s.

[@calholli]

I think it's terrible that they have all of those coolant connections inside the battery. Ideally, I would wan't NO connections at all in the battery; and have them external only. Looks like you're putting a lot of faith in those O-rings and even a small coolant leak would make you need a new battery--- terrible design IMO... I think the coolant tray should be one piece cast, or at least all connections inside the battery should be welded and permanent.

[@fredbloggs5902]

I guess we’ll find out eventually.

[@michaeldbouck]

Funny that the ID.4's battery (which he found a way to shit on in this video) does exactly that - it has no internal plumbing connections and just one connection on the exterior of the pack.

[@calholli]

@@michaeldbouck That makes a lot of sense to me... On this, one smashed O-ring that goes bad after 40k miles, and leaks into the battery--- and they're going to be telling you that you need to buy another $18k battery pack now. It's just a terrible set up from the start, and more risk than needs to be taken IMO. Now maybe those are proven connectors that have been used for decades and are known to never brake--- idk. Coolant always ends up leaking eventually.

[@pedroalmeida4652]

Yet another great and highly educating video! Could you please elaborate further in comparing this type of batteries (being so similar to the Bolt’s, seem a bit out-of-the-shelf, and someone else already raised the problems that these batteries have been experiencing) to other types, e.g. the cylinder ones from Tesla, which I understand you very much like, and BYD’s blade type ones, which they claim to be highly performing and durable? BYD is btw approximately as vertically integrated as Tesla, or even more so, and is probably backed by the Chinese State to come up with highly competitive product/price offers - deserves being systematically monitored I would say… Thanks once more for the great job - and also for having reached debt freedom by the way!

[@pedroalmeida4652]

About BYD’s blade batteries: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6iUYox7o7mifqc

[@EEI605]

Hard to remember what life was like b4 discovering Munrow, such fascinating content

[@wolfejar]

Hey Sandy any thoughts on Hyundai Ioniq 5?

[@AndrewKuntzman]

I got my signed bumper sticker in the mail yesterday. Looking forward to when you guys get the plaid

[@hookster8179]

You may have to do an in-depth of those two battery packs after today's news from GM.

[@vidznstuff1]

Why? The newer cells are unaffected

[@SET_EV_Guru]

Did you determine the LG Chem cell chemistry and model number? NCM712 instead of NCM811 chemistry? Model # ? E78 NCM712s or ? E66a or ?

[@JayInOconomowoc]

Any comments as to how much of or which parts of the battery pack are LG Chem's design and what is Ford's design?

[@markplott4820]

FORD has ZERO EV expertise.

[@TechnicalLee]

My guess is that LG designed the modules and Ford designed the cooling system and the battery tray to contain them. LG would likely deliver the completed modules to the factory whereas Ford would install them into the tray.

[@JayInOconomowoc]

@@markplott4820 Well, I guess they now have a little more than they used too! :)

[@brianb-p6586]

@@markplott4820 Ford has been building hybrids for many years. An EV is just a hybrid with the engine missing... Ford has lots of EV experience..

[@markplott4820]

@@brianb-p6586 - then Why is the FUD Muck-e HVAC system so Shitty ?

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

Problem with all BEVs is battery is SO expensive , when it is worn out , the car gets put into a landfill as there is no resale value and nobody will spend 20k to put a battery in. My ice car is 20.5 years old , runs well , gets great MPG and looked at it from end-to end lifecycle of car , did MUCH LESS CO2 damage to the world. You do realize it has been proven the huge CO2 created to make that huge battery takes 480k miles of driving to BREAK EVEN. Just to break even , and see a benefit. That BEV will never see 480k miles.

[@kirkellis4329]

Did I miss it ? What type of cells are these from LG ? Lithium Polymer (gel electrolyte) or Lithium Ion (liquid electrolyte) ? If lithium polymer, what is Ford expecting for cycle life ? I keep seeing 300-500 cycles for lithium polymer, which sounds crazy short for an EV, but those pouch cells sure look like lipo. Does a proper thermal management system extend lipo to more than 500 cycles ?

[@robinrutschman]

Ford Motor Company's recall of 48,924 Ford Mach-E 2021 and 2022 models estimates that 100% of the vehicles have defective batteries. In addition the Ford Mustang Mach-E has a defective battery high voltage connector recall due to overheating issues that can cause fires. According to Sandy Munro it uses the same LG battery that is in the Chevy BOLT that also had fire issues and had to be recalled. Does anyone learn from others mistakes? Again Sandy says pouch batteries are prone to thermal runaway cascade events where one battery will ignight the batteries next to it, while cylindral batteries like Tesla are issolated by a fuse, has some thermal insulation and a blowout plug for each battery that prevents thermal runaway. If you love your family you know which vehicle to buy.

[@Mark-gw4iy]

I like to know how they get single cell isolation for thermal runaway. What is the venting strategy? Like to know how the FPC (flex PCB) is attached to the bus-bar..ultrasonic. I love you reviews but you miss a lot of finer details for thermal runway strategy and electrical system and contact design. The design is fairly good but doubt it is safe. The foam absorbs end of life expansion up to 11%. You need very low foam pressure 1 PSI at 25% deflection or you shorten the life of the cell. The foam is from Rogers.

[@johannel8104]

Should I do the Correy thing? 😂😂😂. Thanks for keeping it real Sandy!

[@YouT-DJ]

High amperage very dangerous. Way back when, a fellow GI leaned over a jamming pod that had a large capacitor bank 600V 25,000 AMP. His hands were on the bare metal housing. He had a metal bead chain lanyard holding his badge, touching his neck. The chain contacted the circuit... his chest was blown out, died instantly. This is how new safety rules are born.

[@nonyanks2510]

Best Subscribe Pitch Ever, "Save me from Corey's Wrath"! But we all know that Corey can be appeased with a bottle of Beer!

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

Plug-in hybrids and Hydrogen make sense , this does not , sorry. Calif. will still sell PIHEVs after 2035 , so long live ICE.