Machining a Backplate for a 10" South Bend 4-Jaw Chuck

The 4-Jaw chuck I have for the 1960 South Bend lathe does not have a proper back plate. Time to make one!
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[@bheckel1]

I always spun the backplates on backwards to set the register. I made a collar so it would hit the registrar instead of just bottoming out on the threads.

[@stevewilliams2498]

I was just going to say the same. Great minds aye ?

[@stevewilliams2498]

Now I see he worked it out for himself 😂

[@MyLilMule]

Great tip!

[@JTL1313]

I would use an inductive amp meter on each power leg of the motor and take measurements when under load and acting up. The readings theoretically should be the same. If both spike up to relatively the same amount then you may have an issue with the input wiring (low overall voltage) or an excessive load from the lathe. If one leg spikes up higher then the lower amp leg may have a connection issue at or in the motor. You should also measure the resistance of the field windings (they should be the same). Lastly you could use a meg meter to check the windings (check KZbin for how to do this).

[@MyLilMule]

Thanks for the suggestions. I know a couple electricians, I'll see if they have those devices that I might be able to borrow.

[@jhaggerty1822]

Super helpful!!! Im about to try my 2nd shars backplate because I totally screwed up the first one. Thanks.

[@MyLilMule]

Glad you find it useful. Thanks for watching!

[@DEDeyeDYCK]

lathes in cold weather will run slower/ more sluggish! every lubricated part/ tolerance is now stacked resistances against the motor (i also fight an unheated shop in the northern climate), i assume the cast iron shrinks tighter onto the bearings & bearings to the shafts/gears run tighter cold, all while the lubricants on the whole machine are now tackier and thicker. i usually run my lathes at 50% speed for 30 minutes or so until it quiets down and starts to run noticeably smoother. on really cold days i run both forwards and reverse stopping to re lubricate in between directions and finish off with 10 or so minutes at full speed to get the belts warm. 3hp dc rockwell 10x36 & 2hp dc rockwell 10x24 both are sissy's below 50F.

[@DEDeyeDYCK]

To add: A cheap solution for rust is a dehumidifier (rated for a space larger than your shop) to help remove the moisture, and a circulating/oscillating fan to keep moisture off/evaporated from the machines. for larger machines, covering them in a canvas tarp with a low wattage heat lamp/25w bulb, will also keep the casting above the ambient temps, and will stop condensation from forming.

[@MyLilMule]

I don't have this problem with any of the other motors in the shop. Even when it's in the 30s. It's just this one.

[@DEDeyeDYCK]

@@MyLilMule double check your wiring if using any converters/vfd I assume your not running anything 110v?

[@MyLilMule]

@@DEDeyeDYCK 220 three phase. All the wiring has been checked, at least up to the peckerhead. I haven't pulled the motor to check any of the windings.

[@DEDeyeDYCK]

@@MyLilMule first time viewer, I'll watch some more videos to fill myself in. I've only had this heat sensitive issue a handful of times, which in my case were/are spindle related. I hope it's just a simple/cheap fix for you!

[@MrMrbowhunter001]

I like it because I have a 4 jaw chuck from a 9 inch that I want to adapt to my 10 south bend

[@MyLilMule]

👍👌

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

It would help to know more about what motor you have on the lathe and what you have for power. If you're running a three phase motor on a phase converter, make certain that the motor is wired for the voltage that the phase converter is supplying. Most 3 phase motors are wound to be able to run on either 440-480v or 220-240v. Some may run on 208 also but they won't have as much power. If you are running a single phase motor on single phase current it's likely the motor is too small. Theoretically, an electric motor should have more power at lower temperatures as current flows more readily in colder conditions. There could be grease in the motor bearings that is stiffer in colder temperatures but that shouldn't take very much running to loosen up. The oil in the lathe gearbox might provide more resistance for a longer time. A 10 inch lathe probably needs a 2 hp motor to run at high speeds.

[@MyLilMule]

All good points. It's a 3 phase motor running off a 10hp American Rotary phase converter. I have three other 3 phase motors, two of which are higher HP than this one, and they are all fine. I am certain, with no doubt, it's in the motor itself. At some point, I am going to pull it out, but that won't be for a couple months at least.

[@hilltopmachineworks2131]

Interesting saga with the motor. Since you have already checked to make sure it is on the low voltage side, not sure what else to suggest except see if there is a large power spike when it bogs down. If so maybe the wire size is not correct and can't handle the extra draw?

[@MyLilMule]

I suppose anything is possible. If I can't find anything obvious that I am capable of fixing, I don't know that it is worth having someone else fix it.

[@dehartman]

I would check the clearances on your lathe when it’s cold in your area.

[@MyLilMule]

Definitely.

[@dehartman]

@@MyLilMulemy Heavy 10 that is in the garage suffers the same problem in the winter months.Heating the garage for the day is not enough to eliminate the problem.

[@alveywoffindale5339]

If it was the motor slowing, I think you would smell it burning maybe. I'm sure you will sort it out in reconditioning 👍

[@MyLilMule]

That's the plan!

[@stacy6014]

Check to make sure the motor is wired for the correct voltage. Joe

[@MyLilMule]

I did that in the spring. I opened the pecker head and it's wired for low voltage, so I am still at a loss as to what the deal is.

[@jimsvideos7201]

The clearance while tapping issue gives me the idea of a tap wrench with a single fixed hole in the center and to-fit inserts for taps; that way you could have more reach for depth if you need it.

[@MyLilMule]

Another idea would be to use the mechanics of a ratcheting box end wrench, but with square inserts to fit the back of taps. I wonder if anyone has made that yet? I can't believe I'd be the first one to think of it. LOL!

[@zachaliles]

​@@MyLilMuleyou're describing tap sockets. Lisle makes a good set that covers something like 10-32 up to 3/4" taps. I've had a set for over 20 years.

[@KevinToppenberg]

With you living in a colder climate (I think you said Ohio), would it be too expensive to keep your shop climate controlled? Do you have any issues with condensation on your equipment in the colder times of year. Nice project and nice to see "Old Green" put to use. 🙂 And I have a brand new bottle of AnchorLube on my shelf right now. It's excellent that they are partnering with you!

[@MyLilMule]

I am planning on adding a mini-split to the shop real soon. They do operate as heat pumps also. Not knowing just how efficient they are, I don't know if that would be cost effective. I had always planned on putting some kind of gas heat in the shop, just haven't had the funds to do that. This past year, I bought a dehumidifier and it has kept the shop fairly dry, I haven't had any issues with surface rust. We'll see how it does as it gets colder.

[@KevinToppenberg]

@@MyLilMule The guy that did my shop recommended a mini-split. I very happy that he did. I have to add a little supplemental heat via a heater during the coldest times, but overall I'm very happy with it.

[@rnbill49]

I had this problem with my motor on my Lathe. It was wired for 480 3 phase instead of 240 3 phase and would run just with no power.

[@MyLilMule]

I opened the pecker head a while back. It's wired for low voltage, so unless someone monkeyed with the internal wiring, it's 240 volts.

[@rnbill49]

@@MyLilMule I would check the wiring on the motor it should say inside the plate wire should be hooked for a low voltage and high voltage. Just a thought.

[@buckwheat7673]

I live in NE ohio. Bought a mini split. Wish I would have bought a window unit and cut a hole in the wall. Or just a gas heater. One thought on the motor though. Does it have start and run capacitors? Good luck.

[@MyLilMule]

@buckwheat7673 It's a 3 phase motor, they don't have capacitors in them. Can you send me an email: [e-mail]? I am also in NE Ohio (Lake County) and would like to hear why you regretted the mini split.

[@bheckel1]

Just went from WOOD to pellets in NE WI.. Wood has been messy and time consuming for the last 20 yrs. good used pellet stove was 750 upfront though but much cleaner and user friendly.. I keep it at 50 unless I am in here. It has worked best for condensation control.

[@joell439]

Since you asked for ideas…… If I understand the history, you are running this motor off a rotary phase converter? If so, do you have any other machines also running off that same converter, and yet they show no issues with bogging down under load? Note, if the only other machine using the phase converter is the mill, that might not be a good comparison as a mill is rarely loaded as high as a lathe.

[@jimsvideos7201]

I'd look at the brushes on the motor, but if you're going to replace it anyway I can't recommend a 3 phase motor and VFD enough.

[@MyLilMule]

I have a perfectly find rotary phase converter. If I do get a new motor for it, I can't foresee me using a VFD on it.

[@bheckel1]

+1 VFD will give our RPM control. This winter I will convert my lathe from 220 split phase to 220 3 phase just so I can get rpms between my gears and lots less belt changes. I have one on the mill and I rarely change the belt. The downside is cooling below 30 htz and excess heat above 80. I just stay between 30 and 80 and run it for shorter periods. I will buy a VFD rated motor for the lathe, hope to get 10-200 by oversizing HP.

[@DolezalPetr]

My milling machine spindle gets stuck when it gets too cold in my shop, I have to take off the cover and heat up the spindle bearings with a heat gun to get it free again, it is lubricated with thick grease. My lathe has the opposite problem, when it is cold, it runs very nice, it is lubricated with oil, when it it too hot in the shop or when the spindle gets too hot the oil starts dripping out and the spindle gets like 0,005-0,01mm looser.

[@MyLilMule]

I can see how that would happen. Interesting. I have some heat sources in my shop now, once the lathe is up and running again - hopefully by next year - we will see if it runs any better.

[@Rustinox]

That motor story is indeed a bit strange. In the video we can hear a distinct humming sound when it's spinning. Could be sign of a bad contact in one of the windings. Witch also give loss og power. Just a guess.

[@MyLilMule]

I won't know for sure until I get it out, and they aren't easy to just remove by itself. When I took apart the other lathe, I actually lifted the base casting off the motor using a hoist.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

I seem to recall turning the non threaded area of the back plate to fit over the non threaded shoulder area of the spindle.

[@MyLilMule]

👍🏻

[@onehot57]

With out knowing what motor you have , my guess would be the motor is wired wrong!

[@MyLilMule]

When I opened the peckerhead, the motor is wired for 220. Unless it's something in the windings, that's not it.

[@Cjarka_]

the motor seems weird, If it has cold grease and is hard to turn by hand when cold that can take a lot of power, but that would warm up relatively quickly. Honestly if it was mine I'd switch it to sealed ball bearings but that's just me. if it would be a bad connection... that wouldn't explain why it's happening only when cold and it would really heat up that wiring. Being a 1,5HP motor, if the lathe itself had that much loses in the powertrain... well it'd be impossible to turn by hand and it would really heat up. I've put approximate speed, feed and DoC into a calculator and it spit out something like 200w which is a bit more than 1/4 hp. I would look into it, open it up, check everything and if I wouldn't be able to find anything then I'd just get a new motor. Or a used but actually working motor from facebook marketplace or craig's list or somewhere. That's my take on it from all the info I have. what you end up doing is up to you but if you are gonna take it apart I'd love a video on it

[@MyLilMule]

The motor in it isn't very "vintage" - I don't think, so if new bearings are in order, I will go with sealed bearings. My K&T has a vintage motor in it, so I used greasable bearings in it. At some point I will be taking this thing apart and striping it down. Just need to use it for this one project and I should be OK to start taking it apart.

[@stevewilliams2498]

I would worry that that big chuck will finish off you dieing motor. A lot of inertia there

[@MyLilMule]

Maybe that will be a sign from above! 😂