Macro Photography with 4x5 and 8x10 - Large Format Friday

[@c.augustin]

The Edward Weston reference did it for me - immediate like! 😁

[@MatMarrash]

Had to do it! ;)

[@markhamilton8765]

Especially valuable to those who love green peppers!! Sorry, I just couldn’t resist.

[@kishascape]

He's like bob ross but for Large Format Photography. I respect and appreciate how he skips the strobes and uses the same film to keep it consistent for us.

[@MatMarrash]

Any comparison to Bob Ross I consider a compliment of the highest order!

[@markfohl2167]

And I think the real star of this show is your tripod. It's amazing that it held up to all those crazy angles with the weight of the 8x10.

[@MatMarrash]

Gotta have that capacity if you want to play around with 8x10!

[@trevisonclark7135]

I can’t stop thinking of the movie Four Seasons. One of the characters spent several years photographing vegetables.

[@fstopPhotography]

Today, my large format photography leaped forward. This video exposed and explained so much. Thanks very much, I sincerely appreciate your time creating these videos. It really is making a difference. Thank you.

[@scottsharp8306]

Great set of large format videos Matt. I wanted to get the exact model of the Novoflex quick release plate and sliding clamp. Very handy item to have mounted for close up photography.

[@joelrubin6609]

When I saw the title of the video I dropped everything and tuned in. I'm so grateful you chose this topic today. It's hard to find well thought out, and presented videos as this on this subject. Your explanation of a dedicated macro lens helped me understand how they work differently. I can't get out and travel or hike outdoors as much as I used to due to an injury so I tend to stay local or go not too far off-road. I appreciate that (for me) you come across patient and willing to explain the process and care about helping us to learn. I have experience is commercial photography, know about 35mm and medium format but not large format and my favorite was doing still-life. I look forward to having a lot of fun doing this. Thank you.

[@MatMarrash]

Thank you Joel and glad that you found this video helpful! I'm learning lots in putting together these types of videos and plan on making more soon. Cheers!

[@svenspetersen6675]

Your videos simply make me happy. Such a lot of good, well focused energy!

[@MatMarrash]

Thank you Sven! :D

[@gerryhardman9060]

Great video, I’m glad I kept my large format cameras and lenses with my roll film backs as well. I actually like the 5x7 format the best but unfortunately there’s not a lot of film made for that format. Regards Gerry

[@andyvan5692]

interesting closing comments re the g-claron, I have been researching a Fujinon 65 mm f 5.6 wide angle,and in finding some data tables on the Fujinon series there was a 1200 listed!- and it said that the close focus (1:1) is 9 Ft of bellows!! (infinity is at 7Ft) as per the sheet.

[@tristanlope93]

Wow, the amount of detail on those tomatoes. Great job sir.

[@MatMarrash]

The sharpness coming out of this lens makes me wonder if it would do well with an even pickier imaging plane like a medium format digital back?

[@tristanlope93]

@@MatMarrash Yes do that next please =)

[@rdandelionart]

You're phenomenal Mat. Such an inspiration, I love your positivity. Thank you!

[@MatMarrash]

Wow thanks Ryan I appreciate that! :)

[@timcmiles]

I really enjoyed your vid! Very informative! I have a very strong interest in large format - 4x4 - nature macro / close-up photography. Would love to encourage you to create a vid focusing on the process utilizing a non dedicated macro lens as well as the unique challenges and considerations for working in an uncontrolled environment. Again, great stuff! Thank you, for putting in the time to share your knowledge with us!

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Timothy! The crazy thing about macro in LF is almost any lens can achieve macro focus, it's all about how much bellows you're willing to extend and how much image quality you want to trade-off. Be sure to check out the "Field Work" series for more macro outside of the studio. Cheers!

[@timcmiles]

@@MatMarrash Thanks, Mat! I’ll be sure to do so! Keep up the excellent work!

[@MrEszet]

Got myself a Makro-Symmar HM 120 gem recently and I can’t wait to try it on 810, this episode is so perfectly timed! You’re the man, Mat! 👏

[@MatMarrash]

Whoa a Schneider 120 macro, nice! Get ready for ultra-sharp, larger-than-life macro on those big sheets!

[@wellingtonpracz120]

Thank you for your video! Fascinating and quite captivating! It goes to show how easy we have it nowadays!

[@MatMarrash]

Working at a camera shop, I'm amazed daily at how good we have it versus how it was at any other time in photography!

[@larsbunch]

Another really good, informative video. About a year ago I did a simple test between a Schneider APO-Symmar 150mm and a Schneider G-Claron 150mm. As expected the G-Claron performed better on macros and the APO-Symmar better at infinity, but the differences were not as extreme as I expected. A good quality conventional lens can still do very good pictorial macro work, particularly if you are contact printing. I have to examine the prints very closely to see any difference. Also, Black Cherry Tomatoes are the best tomatoes I have ever eaten.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for the comment on the G-Clarons Lars, I've been a fan of mine for years. One thing I've noticed, though, is the "bokeh" on them sometimes looks harsh compared to some of the other options in the 300 - 360mm focal length. Those black cherries were gifts that were about 5" tall sprouts in May, now they're monsters!

[@johndavidwolf4239]

For those on a budget and don't want to pay $500-$600 for that lens, you can use a 120 mm to 150 mm enlarger lens which one can find used on E-bay for as little as 1/10 the cost, and although they will not have a shutter, just use the lens cap by hand. They are usually designed for about a 1:5 , as opposed to 1:1, or 1:∞, but stopped down like you are doing, it should not make a difference. When magnifying greater than 1:1 flip the lens around, which will mean that the aperture ring will be inside the camera and you will have to remove the lens board to reset the aperture, but is not having to do so worth $ >200. to you? Years ago I worked in Aerial-photography using 9-1/2" sq format.

[@andyvan5692]

Matt, with the tripod plate, would you be better off using a focus rail, like in 35 mm macro?, as this keeps the bellows ext. ( the magnification ratio) constant, and allows you to focus, by shifting the whole view camera fore & aft. another alternative for LF would be a "studio stand" which has wheels and allows the changing of perspective of the shot, without shifting the standard positions.

[@gregfaris6959]

Good video! One thing you can see here is, working up close with the view camera it can become very difficult to get yourself around to the front of the camera to see the lens aperture and speed settings. And you have to use these all the time, because you have to open it wide between shots to be able to focus. Some shutters have a little preview tab you can push to open the aperture full wide without changing its setting. pull it back out and the aperture returns to whatever you set. You may have seen shutters with "flag" extensions, allowing settings to be seen and set from behind the camera. These are useful in the studio when you're in close, but can also be helpful outdoors, when your camera is set right on the edge of a cliff!! I have some lenses in Compur V Electronic shutter, which has a separate remote control box which I operate from several feet away. Besides making all the settings easily, and opening for focus and closing back to preset, this shutter will time exposures up to 32s. Working in a natural light studio has its advantages, but typically photo studios will have no natural light at all, which makes it easier to work because you can see the ground glass image easily without having to use a hood over your head.

[@chriscard6544]

awesome video

[@timdarklighter]

Thanks for this Mat. Macro/close-up is my jam, and having >500 mm bellows extension on my B&J setup helps alot!

[@MatMarrash]

It was a lot of fun to have a bit more control of the setup compared to landscape photography. Next time I'm hauling out the Sinar for sure!

[@tamasnemeth2161]

Great subject and informative video (as usual) Two comment: 1: I think for this kind of work having a geared camera is a must, to be able to precisely adjust the composition and the subject plane. 2: I would like to mention the Tomioka lenses which are quite cheap in price, and produce nice sharp macro images for their intended magnification. I own a Tominon 75mm lens, and it is quite sharp around 2:1 magnification. Sometimes I use a loaned 120mm f/5.6 Apo-Macro-Sironar, and the Tomioka is almost as good to that, in my opinion, and delivers it with much shorter bellow.

[@lhuhnphotography]

Another informative video. Thanks Mat!

[@MatMarrash]

My pleasure!

[@neffknows1]

Venturing down a macro photo KZbin rabbit hole when all the sudden... Hey wait, I know this guy! I have no intention of venturing down the LF road myself (although there is a pretty Deardorff 4x5 at my local camera shop that's caught my eye once or twice). But you've kind of got my brain melting with this video trying to compare to the ways I think about ultra macro using my Laowa lenses and different conversion factors.

[@MatMarrash]

The algorithm works in mysterious ways! Also the amount of Large Format GAS you'll have is directly proportional to the amount of this channel you watch. ;)

[@andyvan5692]

you missed a trick here mat, this episode would have been a prime target for the sinar!, why didn't you use it?, as compared to this 'field' or bed camera the sinars' monorail has more extension possibilities, and also a great way to show it in use, as you seem to favor the field cameras in your videos, it would be nice to have a "how to", on the sinar, you did do one about it, but not shooting with it.

[@richardstollar4291]

I haven't shot any macro with my LF cameras yet but this video was very useful for when I do. I did do some experiments with my various lenses just to see how they worked on a small subject but nice to see your explanations that backup what I saw in more detail. Thanks for the great content. BTW - I loved the shot you took in the garden.

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks Richard! I'm much more in my element in the field, hoping to get better with the studio work and try some more macro!

[@terrywbreedlove]

Good morning from the West Coast

[@nicolasceron8294]

Excelente trabajo!

[@ChrisVidouras]

Anyone else felt their heart skip a beat at 7:56 ?

[@derekkonigsberg2047]

The one time I attempted macro on my 4x5" camera, I wasn't quite sure which lens to use. I think I started with my 210mm, but quickly had to switch to my 150mm exactly due to the bellows draw issue mentioned at the end of this video. Regardless, I did really like the final result (even have a print hanging on my wall), albeit only when cropped square and burned in a bit in the corner. Getting even lighting from a window, and when the camera is above the subject, is easy to mess up. (The actual photo was a frame-filling shot of a bunch of dice, taken on Ektar 100.)

[@MatMarrash]

Derek your first go around with macro sounds a lot like mine! Fussing back and forth trying to figure out which lens could work. Now that I think of it, my first shot was a D20!

[@miguelgocobachi]

This is amazing, do you happen to know where can I find the Sinar extension factor tool? Thank you

[@MatMarrash]

Thanks for the comment, I'd recommend searching eBay and other resellers with the term "Sinar pencil". They don't often come up for sale so an alert might be something to setup just in case.

[@acrapid7845]

Impressive). Thanks for interesting video.

[@lensman5762]

Nikkor Ms are real gems, they have great coverage. I have a 240mm F9 Rodenstock Apo-Ronar for close work. It is razor sharp but the 50 degree or so projection cone is rather conservative. More than adequate for 4X5 even @ infinity, but it won't cover 5X7.

[@MatMarrash]

Great point about the Apo-Ronar family of lenses. Even the really, really long ones have modest coverage compared to what you think they should. Almost bought a 600mm version for a project only to find out I'd need a bit more image circle.

[@WimmerRon]

Love the nod to Weston's peppers! Bwhahahaha!

[@jimwlouavl]

So, would Edward Weston have put his peppers on You Tube? Excellent video as always. Great concept.

[@MatMarrash]

I think they would have hit Only Fans with embedded previews on Tumblr and Twitter!

[@thomaspopple2291]

Darn, I was interested in learning about macro with standard lenses as I don't have a specialty macro lens. Oh well. Always enjoy your channel. Thanks for all you do.

[@MatMarrash]

No specialty macro lens is needed to get closer with LF! Only difference will be sharpness and chromatic aberration with a non-macro lens.

[@geogi_bodies]

Great episode! It's not always possible to carry a monorail to the field for close-up. A tripod head that allows you to move closer or farther from the subject makes every cloes-up shot easier. I could be wrong but being able to focus by adjusting the rear standard than using the front standard should mean no focus breathing, which is also a plus when you want to be precise with composition with fiddling too much. I think shooting macro in B/W than colour also helps a bit as there is less of a need for a highly-corrected, dedicated, modern and often more expensive lens.

[@gavinjenkins899]

How are you supposed to cock the shutter and get to the release etc if your lens is mounted backward inside the dark camera?

[@edwincampos7142]

This video has come at the right moment in my photography endeavors! As I am just trying to get into macro photography with a 4x5, awesome video! Just one question, where can I get that sinar bellows pen at? I tried looking for one without any luck!

[@MatMarrash]

Great timing indeed! Also that Sinar pen was something I'd been after for about a decade. This one was found by a good friend that's always hunting around camera shops and estate sales for deals.

[@edwincampos7142]

@@MatMarrash thank you for the response, I’d definitely keep my eye out for one!

[@johntheexplainer]

How are you supposed to operate a reversed LF lens? Focus it stopped down and use a hat as a shutter? Focus wide open, remove it, stop it down and replace it? Sounds tricky!

[@MatMarrash]

That's a great question! I think some of them featured a symmetrical design, which might also apply to threading on the shutter?

[@kenblair2538]

Great video, Matt. Say, any issues if I use my standard 150mm Rodenstock, for 1:1 ? My monorail can be racked out to 300mm, no problem. Thanks so much.

[@MatMarrash]

Hey Ken, the Rodenstock will definitely get out to 1:1 focus and probably still look great! Only once you get way closer you might see some small fringing versus a dedicated lens.

[@kenblair2538]

@@MatMarrash Thanks Mat , I don't plan , getting that close.

[@chilecayenne]

Sexy Peppers...I"m loving it!! I wonder if this Nikon macro lens would work with and cover my 6x17 Shen Hao view camera? I'm new to this and have no idea how to find out, figure image circle size needed, and I've not been very successful on finding this info on lenses themselves. Do you have links to that brief illustration you had on this presentation? As usual, VERY informative and entertaining...can't wait to see what you put out next!! CC

[@MatMarrash]

6x17 coverage is tricky since you're nearly at 8x10" image circle. If you've got at least 350mm of bellows I'd recommend looking into 150mm macro lenses so you don't have to be at 2x and higher magnification to cover the format. Also the illustrations were all from Nikon's LF datasheet you can find here: www.kennethleegallery.com/pdf/Nikkor_LargeFormatLenses.pdf

[@lonniepaulson7031]

Why do you not use color film?

[@MatMarrash]

Fun fact, less than 5% of the film I shoot is color. With the way prices are going, I don't see that changing save for special occasions.

[@jw48335]

@@MatMarrash Jeez, no kidding! The cheapest 4x5 I see at the moment is Provia - $4.50 apiece. Ouch! I have a Chroma Camera 4x5 on order, but plan on using a 6x9 Horseman back so I don't burn too much $$$ while learning.

[@jnrickards]

Do you focus on the front object and let the rest fall away in focus?

[@MatMarrash]

One of the most challenging things about macro is the incredibly shallow depth of field. The widest open of these shots was at f/22, but even with movements is still a few millimeters!

[@markfohl2167]

OK, what's the price tag on that macro beauty?

[@MatMarrash]

They're getting up there, regularly above $600 USD and climbing.

[@roryonabike5863]

Hi. Do you know if that lens will cover 8x10 with less than the 300mm of bellows that you used?

[@MatMarrash]

Hey Rory thanks for the question. 8x10" isn't what this lens was designed for, and only starts after roughly 2.5x magnification (300mm+ bellows). A better 8x10" macro lens would be a 210mm macro or 300mm if you have plenty of bellows. Also there's nothing wrong with using a non-macro lens, though you may get more chromatic aberration than normal.

[@roryonabike5863]

@@MatMarrash Yes, I have both the 120 and 210 AM ED. I was just curious about where 8x10 coverage with the 120 started.

[@dima1353]

It is a pretty weird thing to do. Detail in macro photography caught in a vise between diffraction and depth of field. It is very difficult to achieve high resolution and still have enough depth of field to make that high resolution worthwhile with some composition that could make sense. There is a long-standing dispute among product and macro photographers about resolution, like, does it make sense to buy a FF сcamera with 45 megapixels? And the answer is usually "well, if you do stacking - then, maybe ???". Because without stacking it is a choice between killing resolution via difraction and getting in focus just tiny amount of object.... Sooo I don't see how the large format can show its advantage here with it's....large format.

[@scottca9780]

As I contemplate a trip to the grocery store to buy something to practice on I shall remember my legal obligations.

[@MatMarrash]

The uglier the peppers, the better!

[@OYtree35]

I think you made a mistake when introducing the sinar pen. In my opinion, the numbers on both sides of the pen are about exposure compensation. One side is by factors, and the other side is by stops.

[@ShirtlessMenNetwork]

10:46 - LOL! Amen.

[@AlexLuyckxPhoto]

I have never shot a macro shot of a pepper, sexual or otherwise. But it certainly gave me a laugh.

[@rdandelionart]

I love Mapplethorpe's sexual peppers haha.

[@jmtubbs1639]

If Mat's peppers grew the same way as the carrots he'd really be in business.

[@anta40]

"Fun fact: If you are doing large format photography and you are doing close ups, you are legally obligated to shoot peppers. The more sexual it looks, the better". Ahhh, an ode to Edward Weston, I pressume :D

[@MatMarrash]

Most definitely!

[@andyvan5692]

Mat, just realized that when you compensate for bellows, you REDUCE the amount of light (f 45 lets in LESS light than f 22 does!), you are making the light loss even worse!!, NOT better, so your exposure is going to be realy dark!!