Mages: The Most Item Dependent Class In The Game | League of Legends

[@NEXlUM]

Mages that go support, but not support items: Heh heh heh. ADC farming casually: have mercy

[@HolyShitNew]

There is no mercy

[@darkdemon9013]

@@HolyShitNew until Rito actually makes it possible to have mages go mid again without getting their shit kicked in

[@personeater2664]

@@darkdemon9013 There’s gotta be some price for having the best items in the game

[@TaconIStenen]

@@personeater2664 but... they don’t? And forcing them away from their intended role isn’t “balance” and it’s honestly fucking stupid to think it is.

[@darkdemon9013]

@@personeater2664 Best items in the game??????? Assassin items, Sunderer and Stridebreaker all want a word with you out back. Their main two mythics are literally the same items they've always had with the same effects they've always had, whilst other classes actually got new items. On that note, revert the item overhaul and go back to s10 items.

[@maguc5906]

Saw a reddit thread about buffing Fountain mana Regen and i think it's a buff mages need. Find it unfair how manaless championes can get back into the fight a good 5-10 seconds earlier than mages because the man's Regen is quite slow compared to health Regen. A few seconds might not seem like much, but when the game goes for 20+ minutes, it adds up to a pretty big difference in minion kills, exp and just how often you can stay in a team fight

[@Justin73791]

Makes a huge difference in back timings for sure.

[@cerealsop]

Its better if manaless champions have slower health regen in fountain. Better nerf em all

[@alaaentabi7879]

It's very notable as an ezreal main ,sometimes i sit over 10 secs waiting to fill my mana lol

[@TheGamersDen]

If a manaless champ is low in hp they wait just as long. These changes are bad because taking teleport is a good conscious decision that mid mages can make right now and also doing three stack corrupting wave push into cheater recall. Making mana regen faster in fountain makes teleport midlane useless until 20 mins, so everyone will take ignite cleanse or barrier. It also punishes those that know how to properly manage their resources.

[@VorticalGab0]

@@TheGamersDen hmm a buff that opens up new playstyles and broader spell selection, it actually makes sense. Id just nef manaless healing champions on fountain for the first 10 minutes

[@MrLiakun]

I think you're missunderstanding one thing about mages's items : They're are not mages item, but AP items. On AD item, there is crit and letha, on AP item, only 1 item (except mythic) gives Magic pen. This is a lack of variety, and a clear problem for AP champs, since Sylas and Zyra can have the same stuff and play their gameplay like it should be. We need more diversity on AP items, more magic pen, more AP slayers items (for prevent an Akali to share the same build than Mordekaiser) ...

[@danutpescaru]

I don't think more magic pen seeing as they already give a lot compared to their ad counterparts. I agree with the rest though more usable mage items

[@pebblebrowser]

There are like 6 % armor pen items and about as many lethality, AKA armor pen items. For ap we got 1 item for % magic pen, and 2 or 3 for flat magic pen? Like wtf

[@catrielmarignaclionti4518]

@@danutpescaru the nerf void staff, and give more options.

[@pebblebrowser]

@@danutpescaru Wasn't like replying to you, just wanted to say it. And also it's not even that crazy. LDR is 35% Void is 40%. Serylda 30% still, so only 5%-10% less, for the cost of having a lot more options. For flat yea, sorc is quite gold efficient, but still 18 pen, lethality items also give 18, just obviously they're a full item. (They do give other stats too tho for the extra gold, so it's not that much of a difference.)

[@sylvanaswindrunner4357]

If you want more magic pen then are you willing to get rid Rabadons? Because if you aren't then you are basically saying that you want true damage for everything

[@garabedderderian6680]

I mean as an artillery mage player, this is the worst meta for me with all the assasins/slayers popping of

[@stickystevie9047]

Felt that. Ryze feels like butter too. The amount of times I feel like I have to play EXPONENTIALLY better than my opponent just to go even in lane is ridiculous. Only saving grace for Ryze is his W. I feel for the Xeraths and Ziggs and Vel'Koz players. You guys are dealing with a bunch of rough shit this season :(

[@Omegeddon]

@@stickystevie9047 Down in pisslo i can crush games with Velkoz mid

[@ultigame129]

For real, I used to main Lux, I dont even play her..... ever since season 11

[@emmanuelalagbala9590]

@@stickystevie9047 literally cant play xerath unless they have mages

[@gameguru42392]

Yeah you just go bot lane and make the game unplayable for adcs boohoo 2 seasons out of 8 where you arent the undisputed best class

[@zandromex8985]

My problem with the whole topic of mage itemization is how people have come to hate the mage items so much that they can´t see the underlying issues. They hate that AP items are multipurpose, overstated powerhouses of doing everything BECAUSE they have to be that way. AD champions have one complete item set for each of the three subclasses. AP champions have one set of items for enchanters and one for mana mages, AP assassins and AP bruiser. If two champions as different from ech other as Xerath and Sylas have to but from the same pool of items then you better have multipurpose items that can do everything because what else are you gonna buy then? Imagine if you had to make items that both Varus and Garen can buy that is not a hinderence to both of them and simultaneously not the most overpowered item in the game. YOU CAN´T, and that´s how you end up with the typical monstrosities everyone loves to hate like Zhonya´s or 40% mpen Void Staff. There´s literally only one mpen item in the game, sorc shoes are already countered by merc treads and the mpen on Luden´s and Rocketbelt is basically inexistente. Until there are three dedicated sets for each of the three subclasses, we won´t be able to get rid of the multipurpose powerhouses, and we´re seeing that in this season not even the multipurpose overlords can hold their own anymore. Lord have mercy.

[@mordecaiissad8529]

I feel like people who argue that don't play mages ever, and like to pretend that other items aren't baseline multi-purpose anyway. Hell essence reaver that's not even that popular, gives you flat AD, CDR, crit chance, mana regen and bonus AD after an ability. I understand that playing against mages can be frustrating, because they rely on range and burst, but jesus is their itemization painful, and damn do they feel like they have so many less options in game play as well.

[@bean5165]

​@@mordecaiissad8529 I can confirm I play many mages like when I play Viktor if I dont buy ludens and instead buy liandries my damage drops like an anvil 80% when you are a mage you just buy the same starter and no build variation other than morello and maybe a void staff, since you NEED defensive items since positioning right isn't good enough anymore when the assassin has 2 more gapclosers including flash Assassins is so funny haha :)))

[@whyarewestillhere6381]

I play ryze and a sol so I am probably very biased about this. When ryze still had his rune shield it was nice because you had many different combos. Combined with rog, seraph's, luden's and other mana items you actually scaled and could get 3k hp. now you have a grand total of 4 mana items including muramana and frozen heart (I'm counting lost chapter items as one bc you can only build one). How are you supposed to scale with mana when there are no mana items? Also the mana on seraph's got nerfed. A sol was last really fun when he had toggle w but riot doesn't listen. That's not the point here though. Aside from rog and liandry's there was glp which kinda got replaced by everfrost. It's difficult to "frontline" when you're so squishy. As a sol you want to run around the enemy team but now you just die. I wish there were actual mana items and some more tanky options for mages.

[@zandromex8985]

@@whyarewestillhere6381 Yessss, it's so ridiculous how we only keep losing mana items. Fitst Morello, then Athene's and now RoA. And seraph's is basically a joke. Riot should understand that they should use mana and mana regen as a balancing lever for mana mages and as gating system to prevent ap assassins and mages from abusing each other's items. That way we could have actual original ap items.

[@Xertaron.]

That is a good point. There's nothing worse than laning as a mage against a champion with sustain. 900 gold on Irelia or Yone gives them so much value it makes impossible for most mages to lane against them. Trading is a waste of mana so they need to burst them, but for that they need at least one completed item, but then said Irelia or Yone completes Shieldblow and you can't fight them once again. Mages may have 6 mythics, but unlike other classes they're not split into classes (Fighter, Assassin, Marksman). All mages have to choose from one pool - battle mages, ap fighters, burst, artileries and ap assasins. When you combine 3 AD categories you have 10 mythics to choose from. Serylda isn't only build by slayers though. It's the best option for fighters who want armor pen and it gives the constant slow (basically void staff and rylai combined). Which is ridiculous on top of lethality and ability haste, this item is one of the most overtuned in the game. Mages were also struggling because Stridebreaker's dash gave Juggernauts easy way to catch them. Now that it's gone they might slowly get back. Sustain is still a problem though.

[@entropicplays162]

In theory mages should win vs Yone and Irelia etc because of superior wave clear, but the problem is that the wave clear costs mana while Yone is mana-less, Irelia uses mana but her mana is cheap and gives her a good refund. I think they tried to address this somewhat by giving the new tear and Doran's Ring extra damage to minions, but it's not enough, tbh. If mages had a better way to control the lane vs these picks, then mages would feel a lot better and be a lot stronger during all stages of the game. Another problem is that champions like Yone or Irelia can burst mages down more easily and faster than most mages can burst them down. IBS is obviously one problem, but it's just the inherent fact that mages are incredibly weak to any form of damage. Especially vs champions like Yasuo or Rumble, it's really difficult to gain any semblance of lane control because of how strong their early wave clear is, and since you need to spend mana to wave clear, you will eventually lose. I think the bigger problem is that these champions just got too good wave clear for very cheap or abilities. Especially the kill threat from say Irelia mid is very high even at level 1. I understand that she's a bruiser so she can do that even to other champions like Yone, Sylas or Diana that also stat check mages, but I think the problem is that mages just don't scale fast enough and that it's difficult for them to have lane control when the meta is determined by champions with cheaper wave clear and strong mobility. It also means that it's impossible for mages to roam, because the chance of being caught out and die is very high.

[@dlcyKing]

@@entropicplays162 those champions also didn't have ways to recover health so early so it was compensated. Shieldbow and bork being so good on yone/yasuo and irelia , a healing item, on top of second wind , dorans ring and fleet footwork being so strong, mages literally need half the costs and half the cds to actually chip away at their health.

[@emanueleragno5616]

irelia doesn't need the lifesteal, she outheals poke with just her q lmao

[@Xertaron.]

@@entropicplays162 They are meant to scale slowly, that's not inherently an issue, but rather how effortlessly Yone or Irelia can completely dumpster them in lane. You can play around Yasuo, because he needs units to dash to and Windwall has 30 sec cd on lvl 1. And even then it's only effective against projectiles. When Yone pops his E you straight up can't fight him for 5 seconds (and that goes for most champions, not just mages), while being much faster than you. I remember a game when Yone was 2/13 and still almost killed me when i was nearly 10k gold ahead. Lifesteal in general is too efficent on minions. Samira is another example of a champion that is managable... untill she builds lifesteal. Then becomes healing monster even with grevious wounds. And of course there's no downside of being manaless. If there were more items like Seraph and Murmana then mana would be a game mechanic instead of a handicap. Is there actual reason why Aatrox, Riven or Mordekaiser are manaless while Skarner, Xin Zhao and Jax need to manage it? I can make one exeption for Garen, because his kit is very simple and none of his abilities do anything unless he's right next to you so it's fine. Even Viego's kit is very simple so i can give him a pass as well.

[@slayzet4293]

Pre asol w rework, i can actually pressure my counters by out pushing my wave. Now this shitty w does no dmg to minions in the early, cant manage wave as enemy yone or yas has way superior early dmg to waves. I have to like use my w twice to fully clear without items. So I end up sitting in my tower until i get my item. But guess what, 1 item yas and yone etc is still stronger than me with 1 item... Unless i get 2-3 items without getting abused, i can finally dish out good dmg. Lets not count laning vs boosted monkeys that doesnt know how to lane. This scenario is true when im vs ppl who know what they are doing.

[@shyboievris834]

Finally, I can rest. Been waiting since frame 1.

[@keromora]

Way too much time on your hands

[@shyboievris834]

@@keromora agreed

[@Moderocky]

The mage item rage is really murky and ill-defined - the result of many of their problems. Of the six "mage" mythics, three of them are almost never used on mages (Riftmaker, Harvester, Rocketbelt) except for the cases where a mage builds like an assassin (such as neeko.) Nashor's and Lichbane rarely appear on mages unless they can really get value from auto-attacks. Seraph's is a decent item at face value, but since it provides no useful passive (except for mana-dependent mages or Ryze) it's rarely a good build. Demonic and Rylai's are both good items at face value, but restrictive in that they don't provide that much AP, so are best on poking "mages" like heimerdinger. There are only two mage items that provide armour/magic resist: Zhonya's and Banshee's, and only one that provides magic penetration (void staff.) If you compare this to the range of attack-damage items it is severely limited. Your choices as a mage are either to stack AP (luden's -> horizon -> rabadon's), stack survivability (Everfrost -> Zhonya's -> banshee's) or stack special effects (Liandry's -> demonic -> rylai's) and it's difficult to deviate from this unless your particular champion allows for it. AD items offer so much more situational value, since you can borrow an item or two from another AD class's pool without any trouble. Mages are limited to the narrower set of AP items, which is why they're so dependent. There's not enough variety, and branching outside of a mage's core build is basically suicide.

[@rafaelneumann8365]

Eh... Some tank picks are viable depending on enemy composition. Heck, one could argue that Veigar only ever really needs a rabaddon and the rest should always be tank items to give him some semblance of survivability since he is basically a squishy artillery mage without the range of real artillery mages. Sometimes they are viable just because they take the heat from you. Why dive a mage with enough armor to survive two skills when you can dive an adc that will die to a single skill landing?

[@hamzasami8362]

THIS, I STAND BY THIS. No mages dont have the best itemization because they are so fucking limited with what they can do. Zwag Xerath, a xerath main has always brought up issues with mages. They have shit items. You said it, you either go full damage and get one shot even by the enemy tank that builds 0 damage, build health items and survive a littlebit but do shit damage, burn WHICH IS NOT ANTI TANK MIND YOU, or full protection because the entire enemy team is a fucking assasin. Mages dont even have an anti shield item and its so greatly needed whilst assasins have serpants. I strongly believe assasins have the best versatility in League. They can build as a bruiser, still one shot, and take no damage. They can go assasin, one shot, not even be seen after the kill, and still tank burst because of the fact that they dont need to build all damage. 2-4 damage items and then you can build MR and Armor and u become immune to burst.

[@Marcelo_Pedro]

Lol is so strange that damage>>utility. In the way you talk its like the only thing that matters in the game is damage... and is almost that for now, tons of damage over utility or defence.

[@oswalls7845]

How about if you have more ap than ad in your items (so at least one ap item) you get an AP scaling per Level INSTEAD of the ad one. Since the AS scaling for most mages is already so low, that ap scaling can be higher to compensate. Something like 2 per Level (36 at lvl 18) ? 2.5 maybe (45 at lvl 18) ? remove some ap (5 to 10) from some items and you'll end up with similar ap in late game (5-20 more)while not being so dependent on items. - what if you build ap but deal some of your damage through auto attacks (impacted by the as scaling being nullified if you build AP) > maybe add at least one item that mixes attack speed and ap ? - while this might resolve the problem, it still ends up putting more damage into the game and that might not be the best idea. Maybe an alternative would be to simply add more mana and ap items, not just 3 mythics and one legendary item. Introduce mana in low numbers (200-400) in the 3 AP assassin's item pool while removing ~10-15 AP. Make it so that any champ not having a mana pool but building AP gets a Small compensation for it like with this item it would be maybe 5 AP. So basically a very small nerf for them but it gives mana dependant champions access to the 3 active effects of these items and allows the former to also try out the mana ap mythics. If this ends up weakening rift maker and the likes, maybe add some HP on the items (50-100) ? Those are just my 2 cents 🌝

[@havefun1435]

i think riot should get rid of the mage class and get multiple real classes for ap champs, we have ad carry, ad bruisers, ad assasins, each got their own items for example but every ap champ shares the same itempool. As vars said, a ton of diffrent playstyles but the items are actually realy limited since ap assasins, battlemages, poke mages all share the same itempool

[@ExtraRuRo]

Exactly!

[@TaconIStenen]

No need to get rid of the class, you just make AP items more corresponding to what their AD equivalent wants. Make AP assassins value flat pen and high AP, make mages value mana, AP and CDR, and make bruisers value HP, AP, and a few resistances.

[@saltblood]

I agree entirely

[@nguyenkhang7377]

No, i love to play mage

[@Dingdong2730]

My solution to mage(AP) items is to first of all remove Deathcap, because right now it is the only way to get any meaningful amount of ability power, and because of the exponential AP growth the item gives, it essentially forces all other items to be lacklustre in AP and give AP champions worse AP scaling. Currently AP champions rely too much on Void Staff, Deathcap, Mejais and Zhonyas, basically all other items are at best situational/suboptimal. Then just add a lot of AP item options that either give some sort of utility or hp/resistances, perhaps some variations of items, like make a Void staff but for AP bruisers, so it gives some hp, cdr etc. traded off for either pen or ap, like AD champs have with BC and Seryldas. Another thing to consider with the removal of Deathcap is that other item buys will feel more meaningful damage wise, so you can also allow yourself to build tank items on more bruiser champions like Diana, Gwen, Sylas etc. Making more AP bruiser items, more diverse items and no Deathcap scaling would also allow champions that have AP scalings but currently can't reliably build AP to make some more interesting and rewarding builds, like Jax, Shyvana, Irelia, KaiSa, Ezreal, Volibear and Shen. It would both allow them to go hybrid AP/AD or have am AP build that actually fit their playstyle. Right now basically all AP champs build the same items, and its getting very boring when there is no skill expression to your item build.

[@rileyray96]

Main thing I find funny (ESPECIALLY this season) is that assassin/ad players will cry about zhonya being op. Yet we mage mains have to deal with the fact you spend 900 gold on a vampire sceptre and we cant do ANYTHING to you. Other than hope for a gank or play a champ that can 100-0 you on lvl 6 (not many exist anymore) playing the poking game vs ad champs doesn't exist anymore. Mages really be going through it this season. Imagine playing a Seraphine (who is intended to be played mid) poking for 50-70 with 10 sec cd, for someone to just heal that back up before she gets a chance to cast it again.

[@baluar46]

Zhonya's is just a bandaid fix for a problem Riot refuses to look into. Just like 60% GW. And, as such fixes are wont to, they end up causing even more trouble in the long run.

[@dashua1735]

just build oblivion orb lol

[@skylargrey8016]

@@dashua1735 you don't build anti-heal until after you have the damage to kill.

[@whyarewestillhere6381]

@@dashua1735 as a ryze player I can say that the item change is awful. you can only buy oblivion orb after d. ring tear and mythic othervise you don't have the mana/damage/survivability and even the oblivion orb doesn't provide all that much value. sure it may slow down the healing but it sucks for waveclear and damage.

[@velocity4519]

Imagine defending a seraphine mid that's meant to scale saying she should also WIN LANE even tho she'll just aoe heal and shield, mile wide charm, and wipe the enemy team late game. Man you're dumb. delusional mage mains aren't even happy with giga broken zhonyas. After the nerf (that took riot years) it's "useless" right? Yall are just too funny.

[@ThiccFish]

Ezreal is easily the best mage, surprised it was not talked about.

[@ubermaster1]

"None of them are this hot!"

[@JoseGonzalez-wj8nz]

Mages have to be AP scaling champions Ezreal is an AD Caster, of course when he plays as an AP Champion, he is more like an Assassin, could be like an Artillery mage but his burst against 1 champion is insane, just WE...

[@ThiccFish]

@@JoseGonzalez-wj8nz AD mage

[@JoseGonzalez-wj8nz]

@@ThiccFish I don't agree.

[@vigilantshuriken7728]

@@JoseGonzalez-wj8nz woosh

[@Roze_aye]

TLDR: Mages cant experiment with many items, Every other lane can go ham. I feel like while mages might have a large pool of items to choose from. They still really suffer from them. For starters, a large portion of the most interesting items you can pick from are mythics. so you can only buy one. and while there are some diverse items to choose from. they dont all have that big of an effect on your playstyle overall. Since the only real stats you look at as a mage is AP Ability Haste and maybe Movement Speed depending on who you play. Most of them are kinda a bit too similar and not very ground breaking, while also limiting what all we can feasibly build. The only deviations we take from the main set of items are situation. Too many tanks? build a magic pen item. Too much healing? Build a grevious wounds. and it doesnt vary much from that. you build one of them and continue on with your usual items. And on top of that. most of the items only have 1 of the main keywords your looking for. Want to experiment with an omnivamp build? there are only 1 item that a feasible for mages, and if you build it as your mythic you will lose out on a ton of mana. But if we look at the items for other lanes. they have a lot more variety in what they can build and it can effect their entire build, not just swapping out one or 2 items. Wanna attack people fast? Here is an item that gives you a decent amount of AS, while also giving you damage, crit, and lets you do extra true damage every 3 attacks. Want to go full crit? here are some items that give you crit and have some really cool extra abilities like killing low health enemies, removing cc, reducing cooldowns, dashing, and letting you auto 3 seperate targets at once. go nuts I have 3 Item Sets for playing someone like Vayne or Lucian. But only one for playing Lux or Zoe

[@mazz6360]

"they hurt more than juggernauts ever will" ... im sorry but sett is ... doing some balanced things with his true damage rn...

[@dwight3555]

Had an enemym Sett the other day randomly R someone over a wall into our team and then press W while getting focused down: instant pentakill.

[@alejandropetit6573]

12:18 why did you have to make me remember what has been lost RIP

[@abhishektyagi7402]

I JUST WANTED TO PLAY THAT CARD DOJO GAME TO ITS FULLEST ;((((((((((((((((

[@TaconIStenen]

Been waiting for this one since the series started. Gonna be a banger :D Edit: aight so the video was good but there are a few points worth bringing up. First, not all items under the “mage” category in the shop is for mages. A lot of them are, yes, but not all of them. Very few mages can make use of Lichbane, the empowered auto would in theory be good but to use the sheen passive effectively you basically have to have an empowered auto in your kit, and as far as mages go I can only think of Twisted Fate and Viktor. On the other hand, many AP assassins can make much better use of it because they usually have more empowered auto abilities, such as Kassadin, Ekko, Fizz and even Akali. This is a big thing many people get confused in large part because of the items, Akali is not a mage, Kassadin is not a mage, Mordekaiser is not a mage. Them dealing AP damage makes them as much a mage as it makes Zed, Talon or Renekton an AD carry, it just doesn’t make sense to group them together. The biggest issue with mages at the moment is what you said in your video, having good items have made it possible to hide their over-reliance on said items, but now with AP items having to cover for 3 categories of champs at the same time (bruisers, assassins, mages) that some items are useless on one of the classes and a must-have on others. Barely any mage ever builds Demonic Embrace because it’s just not gold efficient enough to justify, meanwhile on AP bruisers it’s a must have because it gives them the stats they want. Akali has no use for Nashor’s, and neither does Annie. Azir might like it but he’s such an anomaly amongst AP champs, just like Teemo and Kayle. In general I think we need to make AP bruisers and AP assassins their own categories of champs. Maybe AP bruisers could be called Warlocks, for example, and then you adjust and make new items to fit each category. Mages get their own items, “Warlocks” get their own items, AP assassin get their own items, and so on. It wouldn’t make any sense for an Ashe and a Renekton to share items, so why should a Mordekaiser and Annie do?

[@pebblebrowser]

I completely agree with you

[@solidderx7]

I do agree with your points but as an Ekko OTP... I absolutely love buying deathcap then deleting everything off the map

[@TaconIStenen]

@@solidderx7 well the items wouldn’t be hardlocked away from eachother. Maw of Malmortius is an item in both the Marksman and Fighter section of the shop, so Deathcap could still be bought.

[@lucaiozzo8273]

You know the title is right when you are orianna and cant stay in lane for more than 5 minutes without first chapter

[@joshuagabeck]

Nahhh mate. Start tear and depending on your matchup you can really chill

[@japes_l]

@@joshuagabeck If you start tear you throw away all early pressure and give the enemy assassin a free pass to camp bot. It's better to start corrupting pot and get a tear at first back

[@joshuagabeck]

@@japes_l Im not sure about that. I got my information from a friend of my discord, who plays first league (pro) in spain as a mid main and he told me to buy tear. And i believe him, cuz ori has her passive and can really push and poke with that. When played right, she can compensate the roams or keep them on land

[@japes_l]

@@joshuagabeck Every single pro Orianna waits for the first back to get the tear.

[@thewizardIuke]

@@joshuagabeck lmao

[@lyouc170]

Mages: The food Assassins feast on

[@fitmotheyap]

Adcs are better food Qiyana vs any adc even a fed vayne wins as long as the qiyana player uses her invisibility correctly since it's disgustin

[@japes_l]

@@fitmotheyap Yeah but at least ADCs don't have to lane vs. assassins (with the exception of Pyke) and they don't have the job of roaming to help side lanes early. They just have to manage their lane. If the enemy ADC or support roams the ADC is expected to take plating and bully whoever stayed in lane. If the enemy assassin roams, the mage has to go down the river and likely die for it if the jungler or support is there to help catch them

[@raphealrah]

@@japes_l The new champ will be a midlane ADC.

[@japes_l]

@@raphealrah Yes I know. I wasn't referring to him. I was referring to the ADC role :)

[@fitmotheyap]

@@japes_l i roam bot I get double Hooray

[@boredcryptek5513]

What this series has taught me is that Rito is leaning heavily into a certain play style because it's easy and popular. But the more varied gameplay suffers. I remember the early days when mages were strong, and running Heimerdinger who is a specialist was not considered trolling. You could jungle a wider variety of people effectively and that sort of thing. I beginning to think this plays a role in why people are frustrated. Everything is high risk and high reward champs so it feels bad when either your opponent got the reward or you didn't. Just a thought I don't analyze things as well and I rarely if ever play anymore. Thanks for the great content!

[@tilkilit]

I dont have time to watch it now, but i want to say i really hope your channel grows more and more. I love your content and it is one of the things keeping me sane lately. Thank you

[@VarsVerum]

Thanks Tilki

[@lainstructure]

How can we even compare Serylda grudge to the Rylai scepter? Rylai is only slow... When serylda gives cooldown, slow, and freaking penetration. It's like giving rylai a void staff effect and throwing some cooldown reduction on top of it. And people wonder why AD items are superior to AP ones.

[@dragoyelite2217]

It gives so much more ap than serylda give ad so on high AP ratios it's good

[@bobby31723]

@@dragoyelite2217 not it's not , because the difference between AP and AD is that AD benefit Autos. What your AD spell doesn't do in raw damage is offset by doing a single auto attack in following(wich is free ,meaning theoratically infinite dps .) AD items have less AD on them,compared to AP items, because AD scale another thing other than spells and scale with attack speed and crit.

[@citrineconjurer]

@@bobby31723 There are also some super high AD ratios like Kha's Q, Cait's Q and R, Talon Passive and Q, etc. There are a lot of AD ratios of 100%+ and not many AP ratios of 100%+, especially on non-ults.

[@KiyeHid]

@@citrineconjurer Eve's E only has 0.00025% ap ratio (Enhanced)

[@Nuclearburrit0]

@@citrineconjurer 1.0 AD ratio is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 AP ratio. When comparing the stats you need to convert accordingly.

[@heulg.darian2536]

every mage is a burst mage if you are fed enough.

[@abdullahibrahim9981]

except aurelion sol lmao that champ is complete garbage

[@squish162]

@@abdullahibrahim9981 i like aurelion sol with burn cause its super easy to proc. also his stun is fun to use imo

[@whyarewestillhere6381]

@Krystel Iris de Castro I agree that he can be fun but he's still garbage. Or at least he was fun. Have you played the release version? That was fun (though grossly overtuned). The items don't do him justice either, rip rog, old seraph's and glp. Now he's just there not having fun most of the time.

[@mllhild]

Mages have 3 Mythics. The other 3 are for AP Bruisers. No mage will ever build Lichbane unless they are trolling or are Ziggs who has a AA passive. Rylais is also almost never build anymore since the synergy with Liandries is gone. Vars as a Toplaner seems to have no clue about Mages and the problems with Assassins. Kinda used to having a ton of free HP and Armor in his items it seems.

[@dreamergamer9291]

zoe can also build lich bane

[@kogmaw6258]

No one never remembers that kog is an artilary mage too ;-;

[@cicadaboi101]

And the cutest one too.

[@rafaelneumann8365]

It is just not his main role. Though right now his marksman role is about as viable as a zhonya-less mage in this assassin meta, his artillery role is basically the only thing close to be viable about him.

[@cicadaboi101]

@@rafaelneumann8365 Tank'maw

[@thatoneneeko2131]

And one thats litteretly a artillery

[@MichaelPFord]

It seems like the video fails to acknowledge that ap champions are too restricted by their need for mana considering they need it for their only source of damage but ad champions who don't need to spend mana to do damage have cheaper mana costs

[@Kriszfizz]

Yeh some have cheaper mana cost, but they also lower mana pool and in most cases no item that gives mana

[@326inminecraft]

@@Kriszfizz but mana aren’t essential to them AD champion can basically farm forever if they go OOM, they just can’t trade as well But mages can literally do nothing, if have absolutely no say in wave control and last hitting under tower is basically impossible without ad

[@abhishektyagi7402]

I legit have had so many mana problems this season. At this point I use tear on all the mages I play because they cant be useful for long periods of time without it

[@shacolin6546]

Mages are in a rough spot. They function in the bot lane but riot don’t awknoledge that and want them to be mid laners. They just buffed Ziggs and he is already in line for nerfs even though his play rate is at 2%. What’s expected from a mid laner is a champion to capitalize from its privileged position on the map to impact other lanes. Most mages just die if they ever get caught away from their turret and even if they do get a roam off, their slower damage and lack of mobility makes their roams generally worse. Then, when mid game drops, its expected for mid laners to exert side lane pressure. Something too dangerous for most mages to do. If they stay mid, they share resources with the bot lane. Meanwhile, if they play bot lane, they aren’t expected to roam as much and can stay mid lane, the safer lane, when mid gane kicks in. Mages are on a limbo where riot don’t want them to be played in the role they make sense

[@Droopsnooot]

as a xerath main, I can handle some of the slayers that come my way.....its just the extreme high level of movement that slayers get with no drawbacks to that movement drives me up the wall. Irelia, yasuo and talon are the worst matched up because of that extreme high level of mobility(less talon more the other two) and it makes it impossible to find a weakness to them

[@skayles4716]

For everyone saying "isn't that ADCs ?" I think that the point will probably be about how mages have seen a lot of fluctuation in their itemisation's power level over the years, unlike other classes, who outside of edge cases ( e.g : crit items have been OP/Trash at times ) not seen quite as much variation relative to the rest of the game. Also, mages do not scale quite as explosively with items as ADCs do, but the state of their itemisation has a lot more influence on their playstyle than it's the case for other classes ( grammar ? ). Outside of a few outliers, most ADCs just want to run you down and autoattack until you die. It's more or less the same for most fighters. Mages on the other hand, depending on what items are strong will either focus on damage, utility ( that comes in a variety of forms ) or a mix of both. Anyway, as a mage main, can't wait to see the video ! Especially coming from a bruiser enthusiast, when bruiser mains are probably ( even moreso than assassin mains ) the ones that butts heads with mage mains the most. EDIT : Ha ! I was right !

[@user-bg1uc1gm3q]

APCs > ADCs

[@HamsterPants522]

AP items just have the potential to be more powerful than AD items when it comes to giving power to abilities... lol

[@gyroinquisitor8618]

Note on the end of the video, I myself only play mages, and before league ( and also beside league) i play really chill games with not lots of action per second on screen ( no fps or rts ) . So when the meta shifts to slayer skirmicher requiering me to be 100% over active to just know what they do I get tired pretty fast and I feel at a disadvantage. But I guess i'll stay a plat grumpy casual midlaner

[@JoniWan77]

I feel you. It's just about prefferred playstyle. As an old support main I also enjoy slow paced LoL more than fast paced LoL. It levels the playing field a bit and even if you are outmatched skill-wise it feels like you could do something. It feels more like losing because the enemy was better instead of losing because you (or your champion) are really bad, which I just find more enjoyable.

[@gyroinquisitor8618]

@@JoniWan77 In response to the fadte pace of the game I developed some handy skills. Some time I scare myself because of it, and even scrarrier it is applicable IRL. I kind of know what people are going to do and how they'll react. So now I have a foreshadowing gimmick that creeps people. Just this morning I sat on a bench with friends and describe what was going to happen. Now I'm a creep that plays league YaY

[@Exydna]

I used to play Brand as a brust mage main. My theory was, if anyone comes close to me I one shot them with a full combo. Why? I have no mobility and my stun is situational at best. When I have 4 damaging abilities and a passive that does a large % max health you'd think that I can kill a lot of champs exept tanks in 1 combo + ignite right? Wrong, a lot of them kill me and leave with 10-20% hp and thats without triumph healing. I got sick and tired of playing a class thats supposed to be a glass cannon but the shells are hollow. Assassin's can do everything a burst mage can with 2 dashes and a blink. Nowadays, every champ has atleast one dash or high mobility effect in their kit, making burst mages obsolete because they have cruical skillshots for their effective playstyle. if you try and hold your stun/slow to hit it, they're going to be too close anyways so its irrelevant at that point.

[@hanshysher6266]

Sometimes is painfull to play low range mages like battle mages because things like Irelia and Viego can slap you with 2 Autos/Abilities and dissapear you from existence.

[@imrem2872]

im a still pissed, that mages are again, washed together with ap assassins. Talking about item diversity, as if ludens/liandry isnt the 95% goto with mages. Everfrost is built by who? veigar and maybe TF. Yeah sylas and ap chogat can build it, but none are truly mages. Protobelt/NH/riftmaker are built by ap assassins/ap bruisers like Diana, Kennen, Fiddle, Kata, Akali. Even on rito's chart confirmed that. With actual mages, it's like: if burstmage go for ludens, if poke mage go for liandry, that's it. Also talking about diverse items... sure there are many ap items. But don't act as if, lost chapter item isnt necessary for the first, then zonya for second is a must since everyone can blow you up, and thats the better defensive item from the 2 which exist. Then it is usually deathcap for burst and demonic for poke mages. Then it is usually morello/rabadon/rylai if you havent built them yet. But how many times a match is not decided by this state of the game? Maybe viktor/TF can deviate from this a bit, but not much. I usually like your videos, but it wa rather a miss than a hit and goes with the bandwagon that "ap items to strong, nerf them"... yeah on AP assassins/bruisers they are, but on mages it's jackshit. riot really should make some differentiation between mages items and ap bruiser items and ap assassin items, like it has with bruiser, crit and lethality items. besides the mytics it's like if they make ap items good enough for mages, they will be too broken on ap assassins since they have much earlier kill potential and most arent gated by mana. Yeah you guessed it right, I'm an ex mage/enchanter main, who got fed up with that assassins and bruiser are just feasting on me and became the very thing I swore to destroy.

[@troyrootbeer13]

Vel main here. Tbh he's right about certain classes of mages having really good neutral games. That's why I feel burst mages are kinda forced to roam/make plays in lane because if they don't get ahead their damage is kinda mitigated with the enchanter/mobility meta we still have now. Vars saying that AP items are diverse/versatile is dependent on the gamestate. I view the classes more as the Range/Engage/Utility because everyone has damage (yes even tanks). Honestly as a ranged poke mage I just learnt spacing to deal with certain assassins (learning zed's poke range and powerspikes) except for Akali who can dive you without much skill. Resource management is also a lie in this game when balancing champions that are manaless is so difficult because these champions would be broken if their cds weren't so ridiculously high they reduce interaction. The Zhonyas complaint is funny because if we removed it from the game a Yi with GA would be able to faceroll any team with zero CC.

[@imrem2872]

Also for zonya as a different topic. Yes it is annoying AF, BUT you dont hate it becasue lux/xerath/ziggs builds it. If a mage builds it, and uses it, it will usually just delay the death, maybe it can help if you are towerdives/your team is around, but still not much. You hate it because of fiddle, akali, sylas, kennen, diana. Becuse they just avoid the burst with it, and either just parkour out if it expires, or has their burst ongoing meanwhile being invincible. And that is the almost only on demand defense of mages. Yeah the spellshield item is there, but lets be honest, on most games, it is poked off of you before it could be usefull. But on the othar hand, the healing has gone way to far. Everyone can build sustain besides mages and everyone almost has to. ADC have shieldbow/bloodthirster and even bork if they need the % health dmg. Bruisers has goredrinker, divine sunderer, bork, ravenous hydra and many has built in healing as well. Tanks has warmog, gargoye and built in sustain, ap bruisers has riftmaker and most of these can use conqureor very well, which also gives healing, and ad assasins dont really need healing since they just blow you up and gets the triumph healing, but they can build hydra or just heal enough with ravenous hunter. Mages has nothing, the ravenous hunter was nerfed because of other classes, they cannot stack conqueror. Some has built in sustain but most, dont. And since you cannot blow the enemy up with one combo without 3-4 items, they will heal back on a minion wave much easier. Everyone had the moment, when an irelia/yone healed back 50% of their health with a vamp scepter after you full comboed them. It can be argued that ranged shouldnt have sustain, but literally every other ranged champ can have sustain besides mages. A lost chapter rework should be the best that instead of returning mana on lvup, it should give back mana and hp if you hit a spell with at least X range, or some other way so it cannot be exploited by ap assassins.

[@darkdemon9013]

@@imrem2872 Riot just doesn't care about mages in the slightest let's be real. That's why they don't care that they can no longer be played mid in solo queue (unless smurfing) and why they allowed mobility and sustain to reach the absolutely retarded overpowered point they are currently at. High mobility and sustain make mages obselete since their spells become harder to hit and even if you hit someone it just gets healed back before the next one comes off cd. Only chance mages ever have of that not happening is if they're multiple items ahead and even then they still have to be scared of a lot of champs being able to just walk up and kill them

[@domenicocamera8856]

Everfrost Ahri

[@darkdemon9013]

@@domenicocamera8856 But how often does Ahri get played? She doesn't. If your team ever wants someone with everfrost its Sylas because, for whatever reason, Riot absolutely refuses to nerf him even though he's been way too strong for months now

[@isaiahjohnson9786]

8:43 ah yes mages the class that rely on mana can totally go the 3 mana less mythics that are meant for assassins and fighters mages have 3 mythics not 6(yes i know some mages can use protobelt but those are few)

[@mokitboy5283]

even kassadin, one of the most mana hungry champs in the game, can use riftmaker. if you build seraph's embrace and get a blue you dont need a mana mythic. i can only see anivia and ryze really needing a mana mythic. and the poke mages too

[@MrRedseth]

@@mokitboy5283 Ah, yes, if you buy two items and you have a buff and the runes then it's fine, just like buying one item. Worse is seraph is more efficient with a mana mythic.

[@mildgod5353]

@@mokitboy5283 except seraphs has no more shield and is a slow powerspike cus it needs to stack

[@isaiahjohnson9786]

@@mokitboy5283 yes but most mages don't want to be forced into building seraphs when they could build something better like zhonya or cosmic or dcap

[@Caipi2070]

what about „why every Pro plays?“ highlighting why some champs are almost exclusively seen in pro play.

[@vladislavkaras491]

As always, thanks for the video! Really great explanation with great background music and a soft voice. Keep it up!

[@nosterf4463]

Anivia without tear in late game : Where mana ??

[@stickystevie9047]

*Laughs in Ryze* First time?

[@sparkletinkercat3458]

Anivia no longer actually needs tear in the late game to have enough mana. The anivia mains have been discussing if we should even build it anymore. Especially if we have precense of mind or manaflow band

[@nosterf4463]

Yeah but still to build a seraphin it's better

[@fashionsuckman4652]

@@nosterf4463 Nah, I'd rather go another health item ever since they took away it's shield

[@mateobilic3065]

Where rod of ages?

[@AmberSweetPea]

Leblanc IS an Assasin and if anyone is doing a full truly complete guide on Assasins/Slayers you should 100% cover her, and not to do so IS a big mistake. Now as a whole she totally is a hybrid of an Asassin and a Mage, but in many ways the latter is secondary and the best thing would be to cover her in both a guide on Mages and Assasins, but if you were to only pick one it should be Assasin - easily.

[@rileyray96]

This is the problem though, they nerfed mages through the seasons. You used to be able to reach 1000-1200 ap, now you are lucky to get 800. Whereas ad champions can get to way more than they ever could. To 400-500. For melee champion it's whatever, for ranged? 2 basics and you're dead. Good luck cc'ing a vayne/ezreal/tristana if you don't have point and click CC. This is also why mages aren't played often since assassins counter mages and overall mean shorter snowbally games which is what assassin players want. I for once am tired of assassin meta coming up again and again, bring back mages to what they once used to be, a carry.

[@thebluefog8261]

Everyone has less raw stats this season They don't have more AD than before It's mostly how the game has changed to favor early pressure

[@noble7608]

@@thebluefog8261 absolutely, AD from items has been reduced all across the board (except for bruiser items cause they already didn't give that much) in s6 ADCs easily reached 350 AD+ at 3 items especially with fervor of battle being around now the usual is to get around 250 AD

[@zozihn8047]

Thanks for making these videos. Through them, you explain game fundamentals and, in this case, itemization concepts in a menorable context.

[@borderline5895]

The problem with season 11 was that certain mages got out unharmed by the item changes while others were initially crippled by it. Namely ryze and other battlemages who now lack a reliable form of sustain or survivability to compensate for their lack or range. In many ways you had start playing ryze almost as poke mage rather than a battle mage. Also as a mage I find that my items get delayed a lot because you are kinda forced to buy certain items in this meta before actually starting your second item. Them being a stopwatch or an oblivion orb because I guarantee somehow that you’re facing assassin is gonna be fed. Which mean you really don’t get your spike until later in the game. Also are we really considering proto belt a mage item. What mage builds that crap besides vlad. Same with riftmaker there are only a like two mages that ever build riftmaker. You know who builds riftmaker? bumass akali and mord.

[@dustyacer2556]

i really dont agree that they have the most versatile selection of items. many ad champs can go lethality, tank, crit/on hit, bruiser no matter their actual class. Ap taking anything other than ap with exceptions such as abyssal mask is pretty troll

[@bevvvy1374]

No? There's a reason you do not see tank or on-hit on assassins. You never see on-hit or full tank bruisers. You never see tank or bruiser ADCs. Just because their abilities scale with AD, doesn't mean they can build literally any AD items without being troll.

[@rayian536]

@@bevvvy1374 You literally do. Divinde Sundered and Tank Senna literally had to be nerfed multiple times because of Good they were and people still use them today.

[@bevvvy1374]

@@rayian536 Wow a grand total of 1 item because riot overbuffed it to shit lmao. Tank senna is a champ problem, not an item problem

[@rayian536]

@@bevvvy1374 It's not just one Item. Remember when almost every single adc built Eclipse over marksmen items? Oh wait a lot of them continue to do so.

[@bevvvy1374]

@@rayian536 Literally not a single adc builds eclipse. Look it up on opgg. The only outliers are Sivir, Varus, and Ezreal. Every single other one builds regular adc items. Why do you keep thinking that outliers are the rule rather than the exception? Eclipse was broken, no shit everybody was building it

[@RedDeathx100]

I build grudge on yorick ghouls and maiden constantly apply the slow so it is funny watching someone trie and run away while getting shredded by maiden and the goons in a side lane while im on the other side of the map

[@owo4470]

i wouldnt say mages have 6 items, since night harvester, riftmaker and protobelt arent used often on them, theyre designed more for ap fighters and slayers IMO

[@Neion8]

Only Mage I could see using protobelt is an off-meta Neeko build explicitly to make her ult easier to use. Other than than it's just the regular Liandry's if facing health stackers or you poke, Ludens if facing squishies or you burst, Everfrost if you either need the CC, need the extra damage ability or it synergises well with your Kit (thinking Seraphine with that last one, as her E upgrades CC, so if you land the Everfrost slow you can root, if you land the root you can stun).

[@darkdemon9013]

"battle mages will hurt way more than juggernauts ever will".... Are we playing the same game?

[@nguyenkhang7377]

That's true, Cassiopia has a hell of damge

[@misteriousgamers9290]

I one-shotted 5/2 akali as 3/6 viktor so yea he is speaking the truth

[@LuisSoto-fw3if]

@@misteriousgamers9290 did she miss all her skills?

[@blame7121]

@@nguyenkhang7377 idk about you but I rather face that snake than a 500 stacks doggo. At least the snake will be killable.

[@AofCastle]

@@LuisSoto-fw3if something must have gone wrong for sure. After 6 there's no way an Akali gets stuck on the gravity field

[@jeroenverschaeve3090]

Great video. I believe Kog'maw is an artillery mage tho, and has been relevant as such in a decent amount of metas

[@lasyxio1716]

I may be late to throw this statement, but near 5:30, you were saying that mages Item are designed to scale harder then AD item because mage can get to 1000 AP consistently with rune and items where ad get to 500 AD max. But that's excluding attack speed and ability haste. An AP champion can realistically get to 40% CDR with around 800 AP (luden + gathering storm + cosmic drive + rabadon). But ad get attack speed. most ad at 18 have less then 1 auto/sec without any item. This number, with item, can be upped to 2.5 .So they have 500AD, but they inscreased their Attack speed by 150%, where ap only increase their ability to throw spells up to 40%. so 1000[AP]*1.40(40%)[CDR] = 1400[fighting power], where ad gets to 500[AD]*2.50[attack speed] = 1500 [fighting power]. In my opinion, they have around the same scaling potential when you look at them that way, And I just wanted to throw this thoughts ;) (no flaming there obviously, this is just my POV of the problem, love your vids btw ;) )

[@louisrobitaille5810]

11:00 "The old Morellonomicon" Aw that's cute. Who remembers the real "old Morello" era when EVERY SINGLE MAGE built it (I'm talking about the old one that gave mana).

[@Raiko01]

Correction. Mages dont have 6 mythic items. No single mage can opt into a manaless item, since the only other mana item in the game for them is Archangels and that item sucks so hard that its AD counterpart had to be nerfed because it was being built on AP champions too, due to how much the AP counterpart sucks (ryze cassio manamune)

[@LyionOfRoses]

I feel (and I think a lot of other mage players feel) that The amount of items that mages have access to are way too limited. Artillery mages and Battle mages should not have to be balanced around the same items same with DPS mages and Burst mages.

[@deejayf69]

13:08 heh yeah...I want that back those stupid AD Assassin can't one-shot me with a dirk while I literally had to waste 1000 gold to counter them and get stuck with no mana or CDR.

[@FX-gw9qi]

Mages currently suck beacuse asassins are so goddamn good. Like post level 6 all assasins can kill almost all mages with one combo... Btw I hate Yone :)

[@dpsleepk3166]

Riot's balancing team just doesn't want you to play mages right now I guess. Control mages supposedly exist to counter assassins. Yet it has been assassin meta all season and control mages have been terrible. Now that they reduced the cost of some mage items and we finally have some room to breathe I'M SURE they will nerf us back into the ground...

[@muhammadfazlurrahman4929]

We need an episode called : Veigar, and why no one care about this poor tiny evil overlord.

[@MrBromedy]

I second this

[@WizardKingSolo]

Me2, I already did requested/comment Vars’s videos to make a video about Why no one plays Veigar Day 98

[@kamikazelemming1552]

Really? I 've played against him so many times on Summoners Rift that I thought he was one of the most popular Champions in the game.

[@maguc5906]

@@kamikazelemming1552 as a Veigar main, there's not a lot of us but the ones who are veigar mains are VERY dedicated veigar mains. It's also a good backup pick since his kit is pretty simple compared to other characters, so that's another reason to pick him

[@TheFunfighter]

I feel like Veigar is one of very few mages that saved himself in season 11. He can deny engage gameplay and attempt to sit out the game to a point where he's strong enough, and after midgame he has a decent chance to counterburst an enemy if they are squishy. My other main Xerath is basically in the ditch.

[@intoHeck1964]

Stridebreaker caused an uproar because it made you unable to kite champs who’s weakness was suppose to be being kited. When a Darius/Garen are durable and can kill you in one combo, distance is key. Giving them a dash that also slows means they no longer have that weakness they are balanced around

[@jericho8994]

Ok it was an issue for mages to get multiple things from item purchases (health, ap, mana, ect) but not AD items where they get AD, AS, and Crit? Why is it bad for mages to get more stats per item but marksmen get overloaded with stats? Most standard mage have to buy an item that fixes a weakness (mana) but AD champs first buy is always supplementing their power. Meanwhile AD champs also get items that there are no AP versions of (serpents fang).

[@ike9108]

:you gain no AP per level veigar: i don't have such weaknesses.

[@hanshysher6266]

Viktor: i miss that

[@tpon651]

I miss Hextech GLP and Twin Shadows, they made Glacial Augment actually decent to use :(

[@scire105]

Items on mages are somewhat problematic and mages suffer heavily because though there are a bunch of options, once you actually get down to it you don't really have much options. If you are a mana dependant mage, you are down to 3 options choices, and everfrost has so little range and leaves you so exposed that except for a couple of champs is not a choice. Luden's vs lyandries is mostly about kit, few champ actually have a choice between them. Second item in today's meta 99% of games is gonna be hourglass, good luck staying alive against anything without it as a mage. Then we live in league of healing, so most games you are gonna need oblivion orb after that. After that you might finish morello if you want a little bit extra of hp, but most likely you are gonna have to go void staff or deathcap to keep up with damage. With that and boots you are 5 items in, and your only actual choice is void staff vs deathcap.

[@TTMILKYTT]

It’s really unfortunate that mages have been slowly pushed out of their lane by AD assassins and skirmishers and that they can’t get any super amazing items because they share that pool with AP Bruisers and AP Assassins and they’ll just poach the items meaning they’ll have to either be gutted or just plain removed.

[@historyenjoyer6529]

As a mage enjoyer I sometimes miss season 10 and seekers when it was broken

[@TwistedTeaFate]

15:03 notice how 5 of the top 6 you see are mana-less champions.

[@louisrobitaille5810]

2:00 I'd argue that only Xerath, Ziggs, and Lux are true artillery mages as their ultimate actually kill you from more than one screen away. Vel'koz also fits the title because his Q *CAN* reach farther than one screen away, but even at max range (when the Q is shot at 45°), it's still just barely over a screen away. As a Xerath OTP, Vel' main, Lux, and Ziggs player, if I was to compare the mages to military weapons, Xerath is the Heavy Artillery, Ziggs is the Nuke, Lux is the Warthog, and Vel'koz is the Sniper. Xerath and Ziggs are self-explanatory, Lux because you can hear/see it coming but even if you'll most likely die, you have a fraction of a second to survive and Vel' Q can snipe through minions and/or unexpected places.

[@WizardKingSolo]

NOW, it’s FINALLY HERE!!! Day 100 of Why no one plays Veigar :):):))

[@rohitsriram2175]

no one likes veigar shut

[@sebastian-dp9vq]

i main veigar

[@theimmortaleye7511]

@@rohitsriram2175 no need to be mean

[@tomwanders6022]

@@rohitsriram2175 veigar is awesome, his e is one of the best ability’s in the game, his passive gives him an awesome late game which I like in my champs, his w makes him a tankmelter later on and his ult makes sure that no one can survive his burst.

[@rohitsriram2175]

@@tomwanders6022 i said no one likes not why no one plays i play champs like yone yasuo and yi for me playing agaist veigar is very annyoing

[@Lorenzo_631]

The problem with mages (coming from a sylas main) is that there isnt enough variety like AD, AD champs on a team can have completely different items compared to AP champs try pretty much all build nearly the same items.

[@Luksed12]

Laughs in no item Veigar

[@nekkoyaa23]

the items mages build arent specifically made for them (more so half of them fit the role best). these are ap items, that both mages and assasins build (and in many cases enchanters and ap bruisers). Like what mage builds protobelt efficiently without suffering the eternal pain of having 0 mana without builiding archangels? No one with the excpetion of vlad (who doesnt have mana) can utilise it. same goes for night harvester and riftmaker.

[@katgut]

I seem to hate the primary color tutorial mages

[@AXEL9000able]

The reason why Demonic embrace is nerfed is damage is because with Liandry it will deal like 7-8% of the health by simply touching the enemy with any magic damage, instead of nerfing it riot could make them unique items (like sheen/lifeline items) and then buff them to a reasonable amount.

[@yanniking7350]

I dont know if brand is struggling that much I mean, one W and one R can give you a triple kill penta if youre lucky

[@fashionsuckman4652]

Ya you can easily walk up to a group of five people and kill at least of their Squishies accidentally

[@yanniking7350]

@@fashionsuckman4652 if you're full built you can even penta kill them at their spawn

[@Neion8]

I mean, we are talking about a champ with 0 movement abilities, 0 survivability and only 1 single target CC skillshot which even then only CCs if they've already been hit by his other abilities. He's basically a juggernaut that exchanges survivability to double down on damage, except unlike many juggernauts he actually does have the weaknesses of his class (looking at you, Garen, Aatrox, Dr Mundo, Shyvana, Trundle, Udyr, Urgot and Volibear - I see you claiming a class who's explicit weakness is mobility, yet having bonus mobility baked into your kit).

[@yanniking7350]

@@Neion8 yes, you're 100% right, I'd love to see just a little more mobility on brand, but I still think he is pretty powerful if you know how to position yourself... or just press flash, W, R, and hope for the best there's a reason I have maestry 7 with him, and only him

[@Neion8]

@@yanniking7350 Oh absolutely, and tbh buffing him with mobility would break him completely given how much damage he does already, it makes sense for him to be an early/mid champ with teamfighting abilities where extra mobility would push his late game, kiting and split-pushing ability beyond reason, and that would likely get him nerfed in areas where his current kit shines. Buff strengths not weaknesses.

[@pebblebrowser]

AP champions (ap bruisers, ap assassins, the 3 kinds of mages..) altogether have 6 mythics, because their items category is all in one. AD champions (if we treat them the same way and put bruisers, adcs, ad assassins etc into one category) you get 10 mythics. Oh and also about pen, mages have 1 item for % pen and 3 (2 being mythics) have flat mr pen. You can only get up to 44 | 40% magic pen. Also 2 items for max hp % dmg, and 1 for true damage. AD champs have 5 items for % armor pen, 8 items for flat armor pen (lethality), 3 max hp % dmg (+Giant Slayer from LDR, almost the same thing), collector kind of (5% hp true dmg execute, it technically scales off max hp), oh and of course kraken slayer for crazy true damage. Of course that's basically 3 group of items, but that also makes a point about how it's dumb to have 3 categories for ad items and 1 for all ap.

[@HolyShitNew]

Since galeforce exist not even adcs are food for us mages :( We are starving and riot stopped feeding :(((

[@robred123s]

Back in the day, most ap champs were just an extra cannon minion against turrets, so they made it so autos against structure scaled off ap so a winning mage could actually pressure a turret after winning lane.

[@TheDoctorOfThrills]

"Mana, their first purchase usually fixes that", and they are completely screwed otherwise. Only 6 mana items in the game, and 4 of them are bound to a single class, is a mistake and I will die on this hill

[@TheDoctorOfThrills]

My main issue with this that every single mana mage is required to buy 600 mana or they dont function. Just give them the mana need to perform, their early games are miserable, and needing a Lost Chapter to even hope to stay in lane for more than 5 seconds is shitty.

[@Nuclearburrit0]

7 mana items actually. Ludens Liandries Everfrost Archangels Manamune Frozen heart Zekes convergence

[@TheDoctorOfThrills]

@@Nuclearburrit0 oh word? Zeke's is the one I was missing. Doesnt detract from my point

[@jadepelt3774]

I love how Vars never mentioned riftmaker during this video or showed it on screen even though it is a "mage" mythic

[@pjenk201]

Maybe because mages dont/never use that item. Its either the ap toplaners or kata

[@NoOne-qi4tb]

@@pjenk201 *laughs in morgana with true damage W*

[@Snolem12]

Huh? I always thought adc was the most item dependent class

[@HamsterPants522]

They aren't as much. As far as I know, it's because AD items give you earlier power spikes than AP items, and they don't spike as hard as AP items. Mages have access to things like Deathcap and Mejai's. AD doesn't even have an equivalent.

[@VarsVerum]

You'll have to watch the video to find out~ ;)

[@bloodravenn8305]

Adcs have sustained damage and mostly rely on their auto attacks, means even if they aren't as fed as mages, they will kill you if they auto u long enough or if they survive an initial burst, on the other hand if u take Orianna as an example, if she doesn't have a lot of items her ultimate won't do much in teamfight and It's the bulk of her damage and is only available once per fight, that's what makes mages more item reliant. I may be wrong but that's how I see It.

[@alucard5841]

@@bloodravenn8305 yeah, but abilities have base damage, so no matter How low you're AP, you're never deal less damage than the base. Aa doesn't have base damage, it's Just 100% AD scaling.

[@sharpbit]

@@alucard5841 i mean it's basically 100% base AD as the base damage and 100% bonus AD as the scaling damage, combined as 100% AD

[@MrRaposaum]

The problem with mages in earlier game is that you also need to be flawless in your CSing (to get the items that you need) and last hitting with them is painful. It can work when you use a mage that has slow attack speed because they compensate this with a higher-than-average AD (for mages), which means it's not that hard to spot the point where you need to auto to last-hit a minion because, as long you don't delay too much, you'll either do enough damage or overkill them. But mages like Ahri, who have faster attack speed, do so little damage that it is very hard to last-hit a minion before level 4 because the window to hit it is very narrow. Gets even narrower if there is a cannon shoot it or 3+ minions hitting it. If you rely on your abilities to last hit minions, you're scrwed on mana management and against the other mid-laner. I tried runes and doran's ring, it's still painful on the CS. What would think is a starter game (such as the Doran's items) that cause extra damage to minions (instead of giving AD) or that executes minions that get to 5% HP or less from your auto. Like any Doran's item, it would help on early game for mages but would "halt" them one item into completing the first item of their build.

[@Justjustinp]

Mages: the most item dependent class in the game. Meanwhile: Sylas level 3 with corrupting pot.

[@hanshysher6266]

Sylas is half skimisher, he does what Irelia does but worse cause Irelia is Irelia.

[@deejayf69]

IMO Seekers needed to be bonkers because the trade-off for the survivability came at a huge cost of mana and CDR. Delaying that for 1000 gold is ridiculous and I would honestly recommend everybody to just get a cloth armor and then build Lost Chapter

[@Felahliir]

Did you really just class ap assasin items as mage items?

[@TheFunfighter]

He probably plays wirh TP on 2 minutes cooldown, so he just goes back to fountain between every 3 waves

[@X33Ultras0und]

Once this series is complete, I'd like to see his take on types of CC. Like which CC are primary (best used to engage with) and which are secondary / tertiary (best used to extend CC on an already CC'd target) in each class. Like how in the enchanter class, Lulu's polymorph is a primary CC while Janna's tornado is more tertiary CC.

[@wynvernheraldofdragons9901]

"And for whatever reason, they do a lot more damage to towers". Yup, because towers don't have MR, only Armor

[@joshuagabeck]

If you think about it, who would make more dmg to a huge tower: Someone with an sword or bow and arrow or someone who can summon flames, teleport, walls,... Lol jokes aside im happy for the towerdmg, but since its only in the mid to lategame it is okay i think

[@rhythmribbon6282]

what's funny is you highlighted my issue with fighter items, they all feel the same. No mythic feels good to get anymore, I forget about steraks tankiness after 1 fight because I have been building it second on every one of my mains other than morde for 3 years now. Bruiser items just feel like crap right now. They arent weak, just really boring atm.

[@suzaku1679]

@RhythmRibbon I think the expression you were looking for was lack of skill expression and variety. Hardly any bruiser items offer gimmicks and/or skill expression aside from the fighters own skillset. In the end of the day, almost all the items for fighters make them feel like stat sticks.

[@enekyo1245]

I like how people steal ur cs then complain ur useless and the reason is cause u don't have items lmao

[@gkarak1996]

Surprise. Gwen also follow the mage rules even if though she is very auto focused. Also i'm probably the only one to built the item for the slow and haste instead of the damage or armor Pen.

[@catfood4142]

btw, mages do not have the best scaling in the game, nor the ap items. all aps on items got nerf this season, you likely got lower ap from items, plus games end way faster than ever so you dont hit 800, 900 ap, actually not even the case before s11, average games finish around 400 ap, it is easily achievable (by scaling) by ad champions with their autos weaved in combs. It feels like a bronze player talking about infinite stacks on Viegar or Nasus and 1v9 the game, which I know you are far bettter than bronze, It sounds funny when you mention mages getting 700 800 aps...mages now days finish the game with around 200-300 ap on average. and lastly most assassin now days have better scalings, its just they could not or it is harder to get their dmg out in a teamfight against a well drafted team or the game is not too one sided. Your channel started very well, but as it goes on, some knowledges and facts are showing to be behind or wrong in the current state in the game. It is like writing an academic paper, better research. No offense, I like your channel but some non-rigorous and bias heavy opinions need to be addressed

[@piranhaplant3623]

That's true, I feel like he contradicts himself a lot of times if you watch like 3 videos in his channel. Not because he is making a video in a specific topic, all of the other classes, champions, items or other topics in general are automatically good and well designed.

[@BlaxeFrost-X]

I main Mages... I love the Mage Mythic Items... but yeah, if i get camped or just had a bad game is too hard to come back, but when i play jungle with an AD champ, or ADC, it's just "keep going, eventually i'll comeback anyway" while mages are like "you either apply some cc for your teammates or farm so you can do some damage, can't do both" I also play controllers, and for those i hate their mythic items... so underwhelming and/or uninteractive compared to the old ones... I certainly miss Athene's Grail... I wish i could play my healing Lux again... :c

[@milanesadearsenico]

This guy really saying Banshees and Rylais are good items LMAO. If only he knew. Even if the enemy is all magic, you just get zhonyas because it's that much better

[@GeekyGlaceon]

Also acting as if AD don't have a version of banshees, edge of night is the same thing

[@Andrea-wr5wd]

@@GeekyGlaceon absolutely disagree,edge of night is NOT the same thing since it gives you penetration on top of defense and damage,it's straight up better,same thing with rylai,ad version comes with cdr and armor pen as well

[@GeekyGlaceon]

@@Andrea-wr5wd was mostly talking about the fact that they have a shield item just as mages do, but thank you for adding onto the idea that AD have it so much better than mages and that mages definitely don't have the strong variety that other champs have lol

[@IchiExorz]

I think minus a few exceptions, the new items were a mistake. As a mid lane/mage main it's honestly very disheartening. So far into the season and only recently mage mythics got a minor buff and it's not near enough. I think mage items overall need a rework. In the past mages were balanced around having a lot of CDR and gettinbg a lot of damage. Now they have to choose between one or the other but I can't remember many mages getting buffs (except xerath and maybe when Viktor/anivia got their mini rework a while back. I'd mention Ziggs but hey a mage is seeing play for once and he's getting insta nerfed.)

[@pyrobo5797]

"mages can not function without items" Veigar: exists

[@pappousmakis9062]

Really good video , one of the best video you have made

[@kraventm]

Mages: The most item-dependent class in the game. adcs: hi, I literally do less dmg per auto than a caster minion until I have 2 itens.

[@cosmicbrownie2312]

Honestly season 11 was a good transition for bot lane mage players like me. The vulnerable mages like Veigar and Ziggs got pushed out for Yone, Zed, and Qiyana and now we have a nice home in the bot lane to scale and grow with not much threat compared to getting jumped on and popped like a tomato by the Talon. Now that mid is p much an ad champ role there is MUCH more leniency on what you can play, meaning Veigar, Ziggs, and Swain are not considered troll picks and we have a home in the rift still even if mid is dangerous. tl:dr S11 best bot mage buff ever!

[@ultimocontrole9980]

How is mages the most item depamdent role when adcs exist to jist farm?

[@Raiko01]

wait and find out i guess

[@pawel12313]

the problem with mages is that average toplaner heals more from 2 hits than whole burst of a midlane mage positive K/D if he can go through random shield in the first place. Why would you play mage if you can just pick yone point your cursor on enemy adc and spam qwer

[@alucard5841]

Mages only need AP and sometimes mana, the other stats come as a bonus Just to make them even more powerfull. Bruiser need health and AD And ADC need AD, atk speed and crit. Seens that mages actually have the upper hand on this.

[@TaconIStenen]

Saying mages only need mana and AP means you’re betting on killing them in a single rotation of abilities. That doesn’t happen and there are many more things mages need.

[@myriadofcolours9861]

Well, if you're a mage that can burst anybody 100 to 0 in a blink of an eye in one skill rotation 1v1 And enemies can't cleanse your cc, just survive your burst, dodge your one cc skill, buy a spellshield item, literally just run you down, out heal your damage output using lifesteal, two shot/three shot you faster than you can even get midway through your combo using their autos, dash 3/4 times around your abilities Then sure

[@TaconIStenen]

@@myriadofcolours9861 you say that as if mages are the most broken class in the game

[@thomasfranklin2324]

@@TaconIStenen they are there are no other classes in the game that can one shot or over half health a damn tank with two abilities

[@TaconIStenen]

@@thomasfranklin2324 they literally can’t?

[@IcarusOOT]

Sylas skirmisher or burst? Why not both (aka late game Sylas is basically both), also, kinda surprised you didn't mention Sylas in your point about no sustain, considering he heals about 300-400 hp around the midgame every 3-4 seconds

[@akalaiderxd9686]

Vars: "Mages need items be do things" Mage players: *Laughs in Mejais stacks*

[@lixuecheng]

I doubt you bring meja in assassin meta.

[@Newgate492]

Now only if there was an item for mages that dealth with fcking shields, as well as an item that sash built into.

[@henrykjohn78]

Mages, the most broken class easily!

[@idnaanaltaf]

I build Serylda's on a fighter! It's great on Aatrox, allows your full combo to chain together smoothly :)

[@velocity4519]

Mages are dependent on items 😂 but yall mage mains can't farm for shit 😂 so you think mages are weak bc you can't win lane, one shot, survive forever, have infinite scaling, tons of aoe, most turret dmg, and the most broken item in the game unnerfed all while having horrible farm... so you think mages are bad 😂

[@redo1700]

My boy Malzahar dared to be a good pick against the assassins, skirmishers etc dominating in the midlane, and he is getting nerfed for it.