Magic: The Gathering - Arena of the Planeswalkers Review & How to Play | Better than HeroScape?

[@oliviairene4637]

As a brand new mini painter in 2017, these sets were a godsend -- I was able to pick the sets up for $5 each and they were the perfect balance of detailed vs. cheap to experiment on and learn the basics with. I doubt I'll ever actually play Arena, but I still use a lot of these minis in my D&D and Rangers of Shadow Deep games to supplement the nicer ones from other companies that I painted once I knew what I was doing.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The miniatures are really good for that, and some of the sculpts aren't terrible. I quite like the shambling mounds and the phoenixes. I wasn't fond of the oversized bases, though.

[@oliviairene4637]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah, I re-based most of them on standard 25mm rounds. Some of them (like Avacyn and the Inquisitors from the Innistrad set) are too much of a pain to cut cleanly free, but even then it's possible to trim the base down if you're patient and sufficiently motivated. These days I've been swayed by Wyloch's 1 1/4" grid for D&D, though, so the larger bases aren't as much of a drawback 🤷‍♀

[@oliviairene4637]

(Also I've only played MtG twice in my life; everything I know about the game comes either from the Ravnica D&D book, or from trying to figure out what these minis are supposed to be. I never knew I needed rhino-people in my games until I got the Arena base set)

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I spend so much time working with vintage miniatures, break off the old bases and cleaning them up to put them on new ones I wouldn't have the motivation for doing it with these! You're not wrong about rhino people though. I always imagine the royal guards from Disney's Robin Hood when I see them, and I think that's got to be worth throwing into any campaign.

[@triberix2135]

I heard a lot of negative comments about this game because it had little material and because it was too basic. For me, however, it's a beautiful game, a nice magic duel, using the abilities of the planeswalkers and creatures (to be played at the right time) the price at least in Italy was under 30 euros and it seems like an honest price to me. Also interesting is the fact of positioning the creatures to cover the target line. The magic is the beauty and in my opinion they make it compelling, then with the expansions further characters and scenography, different abilities make it really beautiful and absolutely not boring.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

For some reason I never realized this game had that many minis inside. I would bet that the expansions make this much better. You could pretty much go all in on this for around $75 on ebay and have loads of variety. Well, more variety than spending $75 on almost any modern game. Of course, everything has weird ass Magic card monster names rather than something normal. Those long unit cards are pretty bizarre and I bet habitual sleevers love them.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, it's packed with stuff, but it feels like the wrong stuff. I think trying to get all five colours covered in the base set wasn't a great idea but I can see why they did it - and why they probably had to do it. Maybe if they had put mutlicoloured planeswalkers in that first set it would have made a difference because you are instantly opening up a lot more options that way. Unfortunately, for anyone looking to get this in the UK, it did no better than HeroScape. Here it's almost impossible to find either of the expansions, and if they do turn up they aren't cheap. It's a shame, because for anyone who enjoys the core system, having all three expansions would give them a lot of options to play with as they would have 4-5 units of each colour, some neutral units, lots of spell cards, and some multicoloured planeswalkers. It's easy to see what the line could have been and could have achieved if it had continued. Hasbro seems to have a thing for weird card shapes for this line of games. Funnily enough, during the HeroScape crowdfunding campaign they did a poll on card size and the Planeswalkers style was one of the options.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Not to go on a tear or anything but .... You can buy on US ebay and have it shipped to the UK, it just cost a little more to ship. I've had to do the reverse hundreds of times on ebay just because certain minis are just not available here second hand with any sort of frequency. Heck, I just did it with the 2000AD sale for the saline books and it saved me lots of money or trying to buy them domestically. Heck, 3/4 or the historical stuff I buy has to comes from Warlord or Curtey's or Foundry or any of a dozen UK makers, most of whom don't offer free shipping. That's an excuse that just doesn't hold up under any sort of scrutiny. Not saying you should rush out and buy them, but not being willing to buy overseas isn't much of a criticism. You often save money, or can get things that are just not available otherwise.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You mentioned getting it for around $75. My point was just it's much easier to get this in the US at a decent price. If I went onto eBay now and bought Shadows Over Innistrad, it would cost me between £45 and £80. Battle for Zendikar is £40 to £50. The original core set is available locally for £20. Even at the low-end prices, that's coming out at around £120, approx. $140. So, I'm not saying people in the UK couldn't get it (and £120ish may still be considered a reasonable price for some people). But it's not as easy, and not as cheap, and yes, you would almost certainly have to import, which some people don't like doing as depending on where you are sourcing something you may get your package seized at customs, which is pure malice in the UK (this has happened to me before and tripled the cost of the item). Plus you can experience significant loss and delays, and dealing with returns is a pain.

[@dancoles2235]

The designers did a great job of combining M:TG and HeroScape. Having played both, it was appealing to expand a HeroScape collection and easy to learn the rules. However, it didn't have the same appeal as classic HeroScape and became a source for spare pieces if cheap. The lack of appeal seems mysterious, but I think the key is that original HeroScape appealed to creativity with terrain and "army" builds. By the time this came out, it seemed like WOTC was just corrupting things. The units weren't as interesting as classic fantasy, their lack of painting seemed like a remind of a chore to do, and the game wasn't easy to integrate into classic HeroScape.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I just assumed it fell between the cracks not being enough of one thing or the other to appeal to either of the crowds it was courting.

[@dancoles2235]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring i understand the assumption and am not an expert, but as a casual MTG player , it didn't appeal to much that could align with whatever attracts to playing MTG casually (which is not a fantasy cosmology that appeals to investment in creativity). Without a major project, you couldn't use either game system to easily enhance the other, so it was more just a themed set for HeroScape, and not a great addition for a HeroScape collection because it was more work to paint and integrate rules rather than use with other HeroScape. Basically, they did a good job of making a standalone game inspired by how both other games work, but whatever was good about the other two games wasn't as compatible with this because it was too standalone. When I see these box sets for MTG, I see boxes that translate "parts for customs for other games", which requires work before acceptance.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think we're saying the same thing here.

[@Fnordathoth]

As mentioned by another commenter, this was a godsend for my budding addiction to miniature painting. I was likewise able to get all three products for $5 each. I cut the bases down to fit on proper size D&D bases and started my painting journey.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

By the time this set came out, it had been 25 years since I first picked up a brush and about 10 years since I had got back into painting seriously after a hiatus, but I still used a few of these miniatures to test some paint schemes, so I can see how they would have been a really good testing ground for people new to painting. In the UK I never saw it on clearance quite that cheap, though. I think I paid £10 for this copy, and I'm not sure the two expansions were ever that widely available over here.

[@AdamRasmussenXP]

Such an underrated game. I never understood why. Some Scape players are so terrain obsessed they hated the cardboard pieces, but the cardboard pieces solve the problem that many gamers do NOT want to spend a long time putting plastic together before playing, then disassembling and storing.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, I liked the cardboard sections way more than having to build maps for HeroScape.

[@allenstark9260]

Picked this up for under £10 today, can get at least one of the expansions elsewhere. But for now a bit of fun pai ting them up

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

If you enjoy the game I would definitely move on the expansion if you have a chance to get it reasonably priced as they don't pop up in the UK all that often.

[@wyomingsk8355]

My family and I use to play this but we didn’t use the point system or limited turns we played until there was only one person left on board it made it a lot more fun and exciting loved this game with my family it started me off with magic the gathering then progressed to getting the cards

[@DeltaDemon1]

I like Heroscape because the terrain can be repurposed for a variety of uses, specifically, other table top tactical games such as warhammer as well as for RPGs. The game itself is only good if you have tons of sets (which means tons of variety) and if you aren't bothered about the mixing of tech with history with magic, which did annoy me a bit. This one is potentially a little better as it is more focused but the lack of significant numbers of expansions makes it unplayable more than once even if you do use the terrain bits from Heroscape as a supplement. This could have been a success if they had release more sets.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

This one could have had legs, I think. I guess it wasn't enough to interest the Magic crowd, while HeroScapers just wanted more HeroScape, so it ended up falling through the cracks between the two groups before it ever had a chance to do well. I know a lot of people use the terrain for Battletech. I find it all a bit too blocky and cartoony outside of HeroScape, where the tiles actually added to that sense of playing in a toy box with all the different toy soliders.

[@markstuart17]

I bought this game when it first came out. I had bought it for the minis to add to my dnd collection. and guess where the minis are...... still in the box.. lol

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. I've done that before.

[@White_as_black]

I have built customs for the game that are very well balanced from test playing using a Magic custom card app! We introduced artifacts, enachament glyps, and even land. It works well using the original rules!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Sounds great. The base game is okay, but for people who enjoy the system a wider range of options is almost essential.

[@ratchetmechani2002]

I used to see this game all the time at Walmart, but felt intimidated because I thought you actually had to use Magic cards in game and I knew nothing about it at the time. I also wasn't much into fantasy as I was sci-fi back then, foolishly thinking of childish fairy tales that I'd outgrown when I thought of the genre, rather than seeing what it actually was. I was in my early teens then, now I'm 20 and wish I wasn't so blind at the time and in such a hurry to feel "grown up". The part mentioned about winning the game by defeating a specific main model gave me vibes of Warmachine, the game that rekindled a spark for wargaming that started to fade after being off put by 40K's grimdark lore. It's getting a new edition, hope that'll revive the player base where I live because, just my luck, as soon as I got into the game, no one around me was playing it nor any stores stocking it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think the whole release of the Planeswalkers game was muddled, and perhaps couldn't clearly identify its niche and who it should appeal to. Possibly why it didn't last long. I've never played Warhmachine, but I always thought it looked neat.

[@ratchetmechani2002]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I think so yeah. I'll say this, I'd imagine someone thought board games are a more accessible than TCGs, part of why I hesitated so long with MTG is all the rules of cards being made illegal to use in game and stuff. I have an army, but still working on a second to demo the game with. It's getting into its fourth edition at the moment, with a few hiccups. They're going from plastic and metal to fully 3D printed minis. This caused issue when at GenCon, some models that weren't cured properly were given out. I think they should've delayed it until they fully knew all the ins and outs of 3D printed resin, and I do have faith they'll get it together. If they sell a ton of minis to people that have uncured resin fumes getting people sick, they don't have the deep pockets of GW and Wizards that could afford the legal costs or fines that'd come from that. So my confidence is not only from an ethics standpoint, but from a business one too.

[@robertthurman9866]

Very good. I've seen that game around but never thought about getting it. One of those games that needed some work but was killed off right away.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I don't think the starter set approached the game in the right way, so it never really hit the ground running. I think it really needed a good pool of cards and units to get a head of steam, and it never had that chance.

[@michaelchadwick1820]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring The second starter set was a little closer to this. The multi-color planeswalkers do help a lot with variety.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, it feels like the second starter might have been an attempt to course correct and open up all those build options. Guess it was too late, though.

[@exequielfri1352]

Never played heroscape so AotP was my first try at those core rules. As a magic MTG player, I agree that the decks needed more cards options. And even some effects weren't close I. Effects to the original card they tried to emulate. The same as you, I fell that the game was missing its forth wheel to really be really engaging. The first expansion added a squad of creatures for each color, but I really hated that the two Planeswalker in that set didn't have a spell deck for each of them. So that's means that you needed to use the cards from one of the original PW, leaving that other pw out of the game. Bad choice to not add a full army of PW, creatures and a personal deck of spells. Then, the second core box even used a character already in the fort box (Jace). Yes, it had a different miniature, stats and special abilities... But lore wise it was the same character.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, you're never going to engage a Magic player with a set of 12 cards that you can't modify. I wonder if they might have been better off with a more fleshed-out two-player set with some good build options right out of the box, and then expansions focused around single planeswalkers with cards and units for their colour. I don't know; it feels like a tricky thing to get right, especially when you know you have five factions to appease. I noticed the blue planeswalker turned up in the second core set again. That's a weird choice.

[@DustyLamp]

Godtear really is a pretty great game after you amass a few expansions. I wish it got more traction.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Godtear is good. They do seem to keep supporting it with new factions, but I don't really see people talking about it much. There are a few factions I would really like to pick up that I've never got around to.

[@AmigaCammy]

I was fortunate enough to notice when this game and its expansions were selling at clearance prices online, and as I had always wanted to play Heroscape but never had the chance, I bought two copies each of the main game and the two expansions, hoping that between them it would give me a decent enough game once all the pieces were included. I would be interested to hear what you think of the game when the expansions are added, do you think there's enough of a game in there once the three sets are combined together?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I picked up the core set in a clearance sale a long time ago, and never found the expansions at a price I would consider getting them, so I've only played with the first core set and can only hazard a guess at how adding the expansions pans out. Zendikar adds one new unit of each colour, plus there is a unit that anyone can use, and there are a few cards, while Innistrad adds two units per colour (except green, I believe only gets one) and a lot more cards, so I would imagine between all three sets you would have quite a lot of options for building an army, especially if you are using a multicoloured planeswalker. I'm still not convinced it would be enough for the game to have serious legs for a long period (it was clearly designed to support waves of expansions) but for people really into the game, I think it would be enough for quite a lot of fun. However, as I said at the end of the video, the game just didn't appeal to me (even though it really should have, as it's the kind of thing I would normally enjoy), so I'm not convinced that even having all those options would transform this game into something that I would personally spend a lot of time playing.

[@michaelchadwick1820]

Hello, I am a Heroscape player and own all three sets of this game as well. I find it has decent replayability with all three sets. I tend to recommend getting a second copy of each set if you decide you like it, just so overlapping planeswalker colors are less of an issue. If you're looking for your new favorite game this may not be it, but I think it's quite good and would bring some variety to your gaming shelf.

[@BoardGamesBricksHobbies]

Also worth noting the squad cards do list point values for each individual unit, so theoretically you can include only one or two of the units and then have more than two squads in play. For example: All three Pummelroot Elementals are 90 points, but using one would be 30. It's an easy enough adjustment. Also, while same colored cards typically synergize best with each other, there's no reason that I can think for the arbitrary rule that restricts your units to being the same color as your Plainswalker. It feels unnecessary, after all, there's not a limit to the number of colors in a M:tG Deck. (Perhaps it was created to avoid confusion as to which units belong to each player? Or force you to buy more expansions that never came?) With those two tweaks I'd say there's definitely enough there, even with just the three released sets.

[@alistairmyles4260]

I have very similar feelings about this game. I got it for £10 off Amazon a few years back, mainly, I was lured in by the the idea of a MTG skirmish game and I was left feeling underwhelmed. I don't feel I wasted my money but it hasn't seen much table time since. I did think about getting the expansions but I fear they too will gather dust. It might be a good one to wheel out for my son next time he's whining about being bored.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I was thinking of playing it with my daughter, but she's really got into Unmatched now and wants me to buy all the characters for that, and as I think Unmatched is far better, I'll stick with that plan for now!

[@worlds-in-conflict]

I wish the packaging for this hadn't been so underwhelming. I saw this year's ago in a store on clearance and didn't even realize it had more than the Palinswalker models. For the price (at the time) I would have atleast given it a go if I'd realized there were actually some basic unit models in there.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Maybe a flip front or something with a cello insert behind might have resolved that issue. I see what they were doing though. They wanted to show off the prepainted bit and highlight the inclusion of the famous planeswalkers to appeal to the Magic crowd.

[@alexany4619]

Which hexbased skirmish game did you mention at the end? Gothia?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Godtear. I covered it on my channel quite a few years back.

[@riot_of_flowers725]

I'm really interested in skirmish games, and need to look into them more, I've just particularly avoided them, because about 75% of my board game time is solo play. Thats why I like Heroquest's companion app, and a reason I really wish they would give the Dungeons and Dragons: Fantasy Adventure Boardgame the same treatment as Heroquest. I would love to see an updated version of that with new expansions amd whatnot. Speaking of which, have you looked much into D&D: Onslaught? I really hope it catches on, because I like the idea of controlling factions like the Red Wizards, and the Harpers. Hopefully it'll do good, and they'll expand because from what I've seen, there's a lot of potential with it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

D&D Onslaught looks good and gives me throwback vibes to Dungeon Command (which felt like a much more sophisticated Arena of the Planeswalkers, incidentally). It's prepainted, which is interesting to see, and you get roaming monsters, which is an idea lifted straight from skirmish games like Frostgrave, so that should be fun. My concern is that it will be treated like Attack Wing and get a hard push early on, with lots of waves of expensive prepainted releases, before being unceremoniously dropped.

[@riot_of_flowers725]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah, I see what you mean there, considering the core set is about $140 USD, and I heard additional packs will be $60 a pop. With the minis being pre-painted, I just hope they do a better job on them than they do with their Icons of the Realms line. And I agree, love the advent of the roaming monsters, and hopefully they really go nuts with it. I can just imagine being locked in some intense battle, and a damn Beholder or a Dracolich drops in.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a cool idea, and there is a very high chance I will at least pick up the starter. It's eye-wateringly expensive, but it does have some large prepainted miniatures in it, and I don't often get to buy something I don't have to paint, so that will be a refreshing chance.

[@tablesaltgames]

I feel like this was a superior game. The models are poor, but they get the job done. Heroscape is just too expensive to pull off under Hasbro business model.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Most of the models are a bit janky, but there are a few that I thought were okay, like the shambling mounds. The attempt to relaunch HeroScape was just too ambitious, I think. Having over 70 miniatures that are all unique sculpts, plus all the terrain, and then throwing in the ruins and forests.

[@joenicesmile]

I love this game i have all the expansion. It creates a better game. But did wish they released more unites. The hex board its fast to set up and then i use the plastic hex to build mountins. Specially aince i 3d printed more it a faster way to set up than heroe scape.

[@Mailed-Knight]

Great vid.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks.

[@TheDustmeister88]

Could you fuse the trading cards with the board game? Make a new kind of game?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I guess so. It would take some work, but this game was basically an effort to fuse the card game and a miniature skirmish game, so they already have the template there for people to work off if they wanted to.

[@PincheHugo_130]

maybe if u just the pieces in heroscape, along with the spells for added fun ;D

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I expect the people over on the HeroScapers site have already figured out how to adjust the points and things accordingly to do that.

[@unhingedmanchild]

1:30 yup I'd say pretty much nailed it. 8:05 Lol you metagaming us brah? Trying to make sure we don't use green's only draw engine in case we play AotP against you? Respect for attempting to pregame your win. For the rest of us plebs, take it from someone that plays AotP competitively (I just ran an online tournament that concluded a few weeks ago.) Most of Skyreaping's value comes FROM DRAWING the extra card! It only costs 5 stinking points! Green doesn't give a fuck about dealing 1 measly damage to a flying CREATURE when the goal is to MURDER the enemy PLANESWALKER! You want to draw the extra card to cycle through your deck to find the broken shit like Titanic Growth, Overrun, and Groundswell. Skyreaping, in some ways, turns your green deck into 11 cards/195 points. Consistency in getting to your powerful cards. If you can get it to damage an enemy flying creature, that's just a small bonus. 12:10 pretty much agree with the 30 seconds after this. Spells are so great on the Heroscape formula, and I don't miss the Order Markers + tons of random D20 initiative rolls from Heroscape (although those D20 are quite intense on their own, if a bit too "luck.") I'm always excited to see AotP content. If anyone wants more AotP content hit up my YT channel, we have a small group working on customs, just started about 2 weeks ago and we will have live/recorded chats!

[@siturl5834]

So wouldn’t 2 starter sets solve most of the problems you mention ?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Setting aside the fact I'm just not a fan of the game in general... While it might help a little, I don't think it would really solve the problem for a few reasons. First, from a rules perspective, all the units in this box are unique. You aren't supposed to have duplicates of them in your force. I don't really know why not; I think it's just because they are more powerful than regular units and for casual play people probably wouldn't care. Second, if you want to have interesting deck-building and army-building, it helps to have a pool of different stuff to draw from. For example, having two identical 12-card decks of each spell colour doesn't open up much in the way of interesting choices. Third, all of the decks and armies in the set are built to a fixed point level of 200/500. Duplicates of the units wouldn't make it easy to get to a consistent points value across all the teams. For example, the two green units are 90 and 80 but the two red units are 35 and 100. There isn't an easy way to scale up the use of those units and make comparable armies. Finally, a second core set only gives you another four plastic tiles, which still isn't enough terrain to build the interesting changes in elevation that are part of the core rules. The other two expansions do open up the build options a lot more, thanks to multi-coloured planeswalkers, neutral units, and a wider selection of other units and spells, so I would suggest that if someone really wanted to get into this game, hunting those down would be the best option.

[@Prince_Of_Fish]

i really wanted heroscape to make a comeback. this is a sad day. or in 3 days it will be.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I do feel for the HeroScape fans.

[@HivisoftheScale]

You were not wrong, those Plainswalkers were painted particularly poorly. Ive seen some bad paint jobs in my day, but these ones take the proverbial cake. I am a bit curious about the ones you painted up, did they turn out any good?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

They are actually in the video. I had used the fire cats (top right of the insert) to test some different fire paint schemes a long time ago, and I only mentioned it in the video in case people wondered why there were a few painted units. But then, it never really showed up clearly enough in the video to the point where I think anyone would even notice.

[@JeffWitty]

Wait…GodTear? What’s that? Do you have a video about it?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I do indeed. I did unboxings of the two starter sets, and a playthrough. I always meant to do a second playthrough but never got around to it, so maybe I will do that at some point.

[@martinwood744]

Not played this as this never really appealed to me. Did play Heroscape (and Heroquest for that matter, back in the day), but didn't like it much. I'm not really the target audience for tabletop miniatures games so my opinion isn't an accurate indicator of their quality. I much preferred Dreamblade, which would probably feel a bit too abstract for hardcore miniatures wargames officianados, but that's one of the things I liked about it.

[@kimcorwin1705]

Pretty good game. Felt it never tolk off because of elitist bull shit.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

In what way? Do you mean from the Magic the Gathering and HeroScape crowds who both didn't appreciate the blending of their games?

[@joeykonyha2414]

Wow, people didn’t want to crowdfund an overpriced game being produced by a multi billion dollar corporation who absolutely didn’t need to crowdfund it? Wow…who’d have thought.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

In fairness, I don't think the game was overpriced for what you were getting, it's just a lot of people didn't want all that stuff. They wanted a smaller offering at a more sensible buy-in, so they could test the game and expand it later if they found they really enjoyed it. Hasbro raising over $3.7 million to crowdfund HeroQuest proves that if people want something they won't care too much whether or not the company behind it should or shouldn't be running a crowdfunding campaign at all.