Magic vs Anodites: Gwen’s Controversial Power Retcon

[@TheInkTank]

5YL Chapter 11 Q&A Livestream: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWHCiYt5dsmAmqM

[@pizzawolfer1947]

I've had a bit of an interesting theory about Ben and the Omnitrix. We all know how the Omnitrix turns the user into the peak form of the species. What if it also transforms the user into the peak of their own species? That could explain why Ben has many interesting capabilities in human form such as photographic memory, increased strength, stamina, and agility. And then there was that one time he was crushed, gave Kevin a remark about not helping him then transforming. I feel this theory could explain all of that.

[@axe0000]

WHERE'S DITTO!!

[@metanightmare4454]

@@pizzawolfer1947 So basically it turned him into Captain America? Maybe, but that last feat would still really be pushing it.

[@pizzawolfer1947]

@@metanightmare4454 maybe but can you think of a better explanation.

[@eighthundredandforty8584]

I would live my normal life saying sex jokes for the rest of my life

[@StanHanrahan]

I like both the ideas of magic and anodite, but Gwen revealing her true anodite form in desperate times throughout the show was extremely cool

[@bobbyahmad5197]

It was dude!

[@metanightmare4454]

I think it's a nice distinction to have, especially if Ben ever did get anodite powers like Ultimate Ben apparently did. That way Gwen would still have her own unique powers on top of just being way better at the anodite stuff.

[@David-bf5ww]

@@metanightmare4454 He didnt get powers he just kinda picked up more like little things like a shield

[@Neutral_Tired]

@@metanightmare4454 I think it's the opposite, he learned some magic. The Anodite comment was probably because Anodites are made of mana and that was part of what made Gwen so good at magic.

[@zachbahamutson5477]

@@Neutral_Tired this right here. Gwen was good at Magic, she also just so happened to be part anodite which made her stronger in the Arts of magic.

[@DigiWarriorCallum]

Ben clicking the lock to annoy Kevin is one of the best jokes, as it's just two friends being friends.

[@Waqas_Khan02]

Same here

[@colossaldonut5190]

Such a well done scene too

[@iunnoo]

maybe but I'm kinda with kevin that's annoying

[@mikaelaraymond4690]

I LOVED that scene

[@circlestickjay2889]

I love it too cause it shows that the Ben from the OG series is still in there, when early AF Ben tended to be pretty different from his OG counterpart

[@anthonycannet1305]

Fun fact: water does not conduct electricity. The particles in the water make it conductive. If you try to run a current through distilled water it doesn’t work…

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Yes I remember this fact! It always confused me though. I forget though is this relevant to a scene in the episode or did you just wanna say?

[@Danger_U]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 in the opening where brainstorm shocked a wave, Kuro said that water is conductive

[@uc4490]

@@Danger_U it technically is. Sometimes is, sometimes isnt

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@Rabid_Savage Pure Water sounds like "Anti-Water" when you think about it in comparison how water normally works (or at least how the people generally think it works)

[@GMYSTERYICTNF]

Also Kevin was covered in Stone so electricity in the water wouldnt affect him

[@chrishall5570]

It just occurred to me but Gwen's parents knew Ben could turn into aliens before his own parents.

[@bobbyahmad5197]

Oh shoot

[@SoftBuns123]

Probably because they already knew about aliens and magic because of Verdona so Max probably told them

[@galenmarek4582]

@@SoftBuns123 both Ben’s father and Gwen’s father had Verdona as their mother and Max as their father, they both knew the same stuff about their own parents. Makes no sense that Max would share these secrets with one of his kids and not the other one

[@bluesyrupgc4224]

@@galenmarek4582I always interpret that Gwen’s parents are more welcoming of supernatural anomalies compared to Ben’s, so Max just decided not to tell them because he knows Ben’s parents wouldn’t be as casual as Gwen’s parents

[@Steven9567]

@@bluesyrupgc4224 nope makes no sense

[@nexus5253]

I also like how verdona laughs at ben’s “mind her mana” Joke. It shows how she’s still having fun despite her end goal and provides another nice little moment with her and Ben.

[@axelnilsson5124]

I think it would be hilarious that when Kevin absorbs his car he becomes extremely fragile since his car always gets destroyed (even though this was before that running gag)

[@sxlproductions]

Yeah he went from "my car!"to "my stuff!"

[@10Bendog]

I’d like to imagine that during the conversation on the roof, Gwen wasn’t struggling with the decision whether to leave and go to Anodyne or not, but she was rather building confidence to refuse. Like, both Ben and her parents were supportive with whatever she chose and she really just wanted to hear someone tell her not to do it so she’d feel more validated for declining Verdona’s offer. But that’s just me.

[@TheInkTank]

That’s a great way to look at it!

[@ziridestaudios]

I actually felt the same way. She wasn't looking for permission to go, she was looking for a reason to stay when asking her parents, Ben and Kevin what they thought

[@ardzzz1010]

And that's were our boy kevin comes in

[@neeljavia2965]

Never thought about that. Nice thinking.

[@KumiChan2004]

What I find weird about this whole thing is why not wait till pretty much the end of your life time as a human then go in like 50 years or so. It seems it wouldn't make much difference to their grandma to wait on Gwen.

[@GenerationWest]

I've grown to really appreciate the Anodite retcon, I like that we have both magic and alien connections, and having both Verdona and Gwen with Anodite forms are really freakin' cool. What I don't like is that Ben never had a Anodite form in regular form, just as a special occasion, like I thought Ben 10K Returns was hinting at something. Another thing, apparently Ominverse's Lucky Girl form is her Anodite form, and I'm like... "No, that's a downgrade."

[@balkarzar]

I always saw the omniverse lucky girl form as an in-between anodite and human forms.

[@jacoba6747]

I always saw it as her have some control over it so she doesn’t lose her humanity

[@madladdie7069]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of how they did it either.

[@superhydra8873]

DJW confirmed that isn't her anodite form.

[@neeljavia2965]

Gwen's design in OV with her personality was the worst.

[@ekinstonwalker9736]

If she’s an energy being won’t Gwen technically outlive everybody here? Other than her grandma. If that happens she could just do the training once kevin has left this world. It’s definitely an option if she’s going to live for hundreds of years. Imagine a story where her and kevin have children and Gwen and the children outlive him, then go into full training mode become energy beings

[@realdavidjones1623]

That would be sad for her 😂

[@naruto12624]

Kevin can just absorb her powers and live just as long

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@naruto12624 , if UAF didn’t retcon Kevin into being an alien hybrid then he would definitely would lived the exact same lifespan as retcon Gwen 10, but since they retconed him into being an alien hybrid instead of a mutant then he would have definitely died around the same time Ben and his children would.

[@simpgod2170]

​​​​@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr we don't know how long Kevin's alien species live for. They might live as long as the average human. Also, I don't think Kevin being confirmed an alien hybrid was a retcon. I'm pretty sure some people thought Kevin was already an alien before the death if his father was revealed and other suggested otherwise

[@joffielelsabrosoe.e2664]

Verdona: Think, Gwen, think! What will you have after 500 years?

[@theking8347]

Kevin: "Humans with alien ancestors are actually pretty common" And yet Kevin ends up being the one who's 100% human

[@randyjr.arsenio5624]

What? How? I thought he was Osmosian..

[@thevoidbender]

@@randyjr.arsenio5624 osmosians are human though. They are basically Ben 10s version of mutants. Like a genetic mutation branch of humanity or subspecies.

[@issackaiser]

So in short, he’s a mutant.

[@theking8347]

@@randyjr.arsenio5624 Servantis: "It is a term I coined for a human with a unique genetic component. Each Osmosian has a different ability. Kevin's is absorbtion, which makes him indispensable to me." They're X-Men style mutants. Humans born with genetic mutation that gives them superpowers. That's all Kevin is.

[@mobgabriel1767]

@@randyjr.arsenio5624omniverse moment

[@ebensennett3095]

I always felt like the anodite DNA was why Gwen was able to master magic so quickly and why she was able to match Charmcaster in terms of magic, dispite the fact Gwen had only been using magic for a couple of months. I always liked the explanation of blue is magic and pink is mana.

[@RK-qi4tv]

charmcaster's magic is also purple tho?

[@dannyphantom3090]

I agree and it also explains how she was able to use hex staff in the classic series episode tough luck since hex clarified only a master magician can use it.

[@diegopansini3152]

@@RK-qi4tv The animators goofed up by making ALL magic pink in UAF. Rex couldn't use magic at all bc he would've looked ridiculous lol

[@RK-qi4tv]

@@diegopansini3152 lol charmcaster's magic was purple in the original series too

[@diegopansini3152]

@@RK-qi4tv Not always

[@noraarcadia635]

Headcanon for Ben not being able to turn into an anodite: He still has enough anodite DNA-equivalent for the omnitrix to register him as one and lock the transformation.

[@rickib7075]

True ben 10k in UA has mana powers too and says you pick up a trick or two from hanging out with them so much

[@skibot9974]

That’s what I assumed

[@johnhubert8253]

Yeah, I mean you can't turn in to your own species with the Omnitrix. Asking why Ben doesn't have an anodite transformation is kind of like asking why he doesn't have a human transformation. That is his own species and you can't become your own species.

[@ghostspider2056]

The way I see it, Ben 10K’s Ultimate form is what unlocked Ben’s latent Anodite abilities.

[@benstone1O1]

yeah i agree with John and Ghost spider... Ultimte Ben just unlocks Ben's latent abilities making him SuperBen he has some anodite dna so thats why he can only use it in his ultimate form

[@dutch_asocialite]

"Is this really more effective than Gwen just shooting them at her?" I mean, probably. Whenever she launches her discs, it's more of a throw and she's depending on her own strength to get them from her to the target and so, while damaging, it's not as strong as it could be (I think, I don't really remember how she propels her discs, but I'm sure this is it), while using something akin to a bow would up the force.

[@javianbrown8627]

But they explode on impact though

[@dutch_asocialite]

@@javianbrown8627 That's true, which is presumably a tactic to make up for Gwen's girly strength throw, but this one didn't and was straight concussive force. Unless I missed something in which case idk.

[@pormpfspimperton6804]

@@dutch_asocialite girly strength? Isn’t gwen a black belt in martial arts?

[@thomaspanditfan2435]

@@pormpfspimperton6804 learning martial arts, doesn't somehow make u stronger than a 6 ft guy. This is not a movie.

[@pormpfspimperton6804]

@@thomaspanditfan2435 She literally performed a judo throw on a guy from a standstill in the first episode. She’s pretty strong

[@krealyesitisbeta5642]

"I'm surprised it didn't electrocute Kevin." He's made of stone at that moment.

[@Loguer]

So he'd be Rockshock

[@artslife4424]

@@Loguer Shock Rock

[@25_25h]

Joke sound effect

[@DragonTheOneDZA]

​@@Loguer yes rockshock my favorite alien Definitely next to backslap and arms four

[@thecasualaussie3990]

"We're teaching her to mind her mana" "Good one Ben!" Puns, tested and approved

[@keelanbarron928]

Wait, what pun? I didn't knwow it was a pun.

[@justamule707]

@@keelanbarron928 it's a play on mind her manners

[@UrSammich]

More like mind your nanas~ I'll stop

[@christinebouzas3090]

@@UrSammich mind your mannas nana

[@christinebouzas3090]

@@UrSammich mind your mana nana

[@gaminreasons8941]

I like there being mutants, magic, and supernatural creatures in Ben 10. It adds to the world and means that not everything boils down to "IT WAS ALIENS!". It makes it more complex and means that you don't always know what to expect, and expands the types of stories you can tell. Animo didn't need any aliens, just good old fashioned mad science, he just adds in Alien stuff for funsies.

[@schemar17]

That's what made classic better

[@srstriker6420]

Yeah because making nearly everyone an alien seems pretty lazy and predictable just like the X-Men movies where they make everyone into a mutant where characters like Mr Sinister and Juggernaut are not.

[@willnelson9906]

it's even funnier to think like, supernatural things exist so like, it just really makes Earth the "Weird PlanetTM" especially if like, no other planet has such a concentration of supernatural/magical creatures.

[@bob74h67]

@@willnelson9906 ''it's even funnier to think like, supernatural things exist so like, it just really makes Earth the "Weird PlanetTM" especially if like, no other planet has such a concentration of supernatural/magical creatures'' Well earth has tech and mutations Kinda the problem with aliens in fiction, they just have these insane powers or abilities that just transcend humanity when in reality, It would be very unlikely for aliens to have say fire manipulation or acid blood as that would assume the aliens have a blood system which wouldt happen if they evolved serpately to animals on earth. Aliens are just fiction. Realistically if life did exist on other worlds other then earth then it would be something more like a living rock or maybe a cellular gas which feeds on minerals. Aliens likely do exist but just not in the form humanity sees them as due to their perception being far too human like to work and b it just sounds stupid to say that earth is the only planet with life among billions

[@nullpoint3346]

@@srstriker6420 Juggernaut being a warlock (Demon contracted) is pretty weird for his powerset.

[@youngdiversity9860]

Paxton Lee, you utterly killed it with that "YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO SAVE US ALL!" scene! It actually sounded like how I'd imagine Ben saying that! (Don't worry Kuro, your version on The RustBucket was good to, lol) As for the magic and anodite question, why not both? It makes Gwen a very unique character, more than she already was!

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Nah. I don't think her magic needed to be explained.

[@jasonnguyen2575]

@@vetarlittorf1807, eh Gwen had instances of Mary Sue moments in the magic episodes in OS. Like when she just blasted Charmcaster with the Staff of Ages (a weapon that can only be used by a MASTER MAGICIAN), her SOMEHOW being able to recharge the Keystone of Bezel (not to mention keep her affinity for magic), or when Charmcaster could just conjure magic in Gwen’s body just because she had this “magic aura”. The amount of BS she was able to pull and the questions it set up kinda warranted an answer in how she had this big affinity for magic. Just, kinda not like how it was answered in AF.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@jasonnguyen2575 All of those moments were answered by the simple fact that Gwen was a prodigy with immense latent power that was supposedly activated by the charms of Bezel. And when I said "her magic doesn't need to be explained" I didn't mean that they shouldn't give her a reason for why she's a prodigy, I meant that they shouldn't have quantified her powers by making her an alien. For example, they could've explained that she is descended from a cult of sorcerers or something. I just don't like the idea of everything having an extraterrestrial origin. Otherwise, what was even the point of including magic and supernatural elements in the first place? Also, those weren't really "Mary Sue" moments. If Gwen was a Mary Sue, she would be devoid of character flaws, Ben would have nothing but respect for her and she wouldn't have to bother to master her magical abilities. She more or less falls into the "competent woman" trope.

[@Macro117]

My interpretation of Anodites vs magic was always that the energy manipulation of Anodites is magic, and Anodites are just beings that are adept with magic by nature due to their connection to mana, so basically they were really powerful mystics (along the lines of DC Comics' Homo Magi)

[@christopherlee8989]

I agree they are just beings of pure energy and magic is just manipulating energies so they're just naturally evolved

[@JohnDoe-ou3yz]

Yeah, this explanation would definitely make the whole controversy go away

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@JohnDoe-ou3yz i thught that was the explanation they gave in ultimate alien especially when charmcaster got angry at how gwen was easily able to master magic because she got lucky she is part of the one alien race that is naturally gifted at magic

[@yousefalmudhaf4083]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 it is the explanation but the haters think that it’s a retcon because this wasn’t explained in the OS which makes no sense

[@helixsol7171]

@@yousefalmudhaf4083 Like when Dragon Ball Super gave a definitive explanation for why Vegito broke apart into Goku and Vegeta again fighting Super Buu since the Potara fusion was supposed to be permanent

[@Trunks1stApprentice]

"We've been recruiting more and more Plumber kids" As a kid, I thought that was supposed to imply that they were recruiting Plumber kids off-screen, and that when they eventually went up against the Highbreed, there would be an army of Plumber kids on Ben's side.

[@heathertilert]

Verdona:”Can you project energy like your sister?” Ben:”Cousin. And only in a few of my 1,000,912 different alien forms.”

[@Truck-kun11]

If you think about it, Gwen having access to Mana from Anodite explains how she found it so easy to learn Magic, which also uses Mana. She's only had the Spell Book for a few months, and by the end of the series (The 10 Negatives) she was going up against Charmcaster

[@noraarcadia635]

It makes her being able to use the magic staff when it should only be used by a master wizard make a bit more sense

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@noraarcadia635 it explains a little bit more charmcaster's anger at her in episodes like "where magic happens". After all, gwen basically won the lottery with her having DNA of a species that naturally can use magic Unlike charmcaster that, ironically, while living inside a magic dimension, had to learn how to use it the hard way

[@yousefalmudhaf4083]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 I wouldn’t compare it to a lottery because it’s not a random gene anyone can get but one instead a recessive gene that can be passed down to an anodite’s offspring and their descendants

[@Eric-py8yy]

Ben 10 classic didn't handle well magic because it's soo vague, like if you get a book boom! You get magic

[@unknownbystander8145]

It was a very pointless addition though. Charmcaster and Hex are both powerful magic-users that were originally residents of Ledgerdomain but they're both recognized as human, with the former being nearly as powerful as Gwen while the latter is clearly more powerful than her. So I don't see why Gwen would need to have an alien heritage when her two most powerful enemies are apparently just human magic-users. The only benefits Gwen's anodite heritage seem to give is a high mana capacity (which you have no way off being able to tell the difference off) and her anodite form which only appeared a grand total of 4 times, the first two being shown for shock value, the third she was defeated in an instant, and the fourth she just curb-stomped Humongasaur who by that point was already beaten/curb-stomped by other villains multiple times . Even her future version was never shown accessing this form despite clearly being better(both in terms of knowledge and magical prowess) than her younger version. With all that said, it's clear that this was only added in to explain why she was able to match Charmcaster, which didn't really need an explanation.

[@Theokal3]

Personnally, I said it before and I'll say it again: the ideal for me is a compromise between the two: Gwen's powers ARE magic, but she just happens to be related to a race of cosmic energy beings who are made of mana and thus have an affinity for magic. That way, we keep the interesting Anodite stuff and development while still keeping the magic and incantations. If people dislike the alien aspect so much, then I'd suggest making Anodites some sorts of mystical beings that inspired Fairies, thus making them more fantasy-like. Heck, could even give them a weakness to Cold Iron so they'd be a little less OP. I don't care if OS fans and Derrick Wyatt hated Verdonna, she was an interesting character with potential and should have been given more screentime. Her being unlikable isn't an excuse because she only was unlikable for ONE episode and already showed signs of improving by the end.

[@d.d717]

AGREED Verdona rocked and I would've loved to see an alternative timeline of Gwen choosing to go with her.

[@ackah-diaziblay9389]

My question is can Ben scan Anadine DNA?

[@ohsnapleia]

Agreed 🎯🎯🎯

[@starwhite9655]

@@ackah-diaziblay9389 Anodites don’t have DNA so the Omnitrix can’t scan them

[@theoverlord3937]

@@starwhite9655 plus Ben is already part Anodite so he probably cant transform into something he technically already is.

[@DrMDC]

Brainstorm vs The Vengers is a top 5 scene in the series. It’s such a good scene and really shows a different type of intelligence than Grey Matter’s intelligence.

[@konstantinivanov1717]

And it's also a funny Sherlock reference Honestly didn't expect to see that in Ben 10

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

It also shows Ben has easier time using Brainstorm's intelligence than Grey Matter. As Grey Matter's intelligence was most of the time "instintc that activate on its own"

[@michaelchi1336]

Don’t sell Grey Matter short he was able to learn Khyber’s grip technique and he used it to defeat tyranopede

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@michaelchi1336 I AM not selling him short I AM saying Ben has more trouble using him

[@ctshaffer1999]

Why is the crew of the franchise so insistent that Grey Matter is smarter than Brainstorm even though all of the evidence points to the contrary? Brainstorm was smart enough to defeat 4 enemies at once just by predicting exactly what each of them would do, while Grey Matter spent half an episode trying to escape from a normal guy’s house.

[@mechajay3358]

Kevin: "Dude I don't think I can Pound your Grandma" Me: "Phrasing" Jokes aside I wasn't really care much about the Anodite vs Magic Discussion, They can both can co-exist.

[@patricklauer4452]

XD

[@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123]

I like what future episodes did which was say that Gwen's Anodite DNA gave her a bigger pool of mana to draw from then most, and allowed her to easily learn magic, basically combined the two into one bigger explanation.

[@Dredagoat30]

Exactly what I thought

[@McSenkel]

Insert salty Charmcaster being salty over part alien rookie savant.

[@edwardbo4666]

I mean, it makes sense. It's like the monsters in undertale being made of magic.

[@Truck-kun11]

I've always interpreted her powers as a bit of both. She started learning Simple Magic after getting the spell book, and as she learned to use Magic, she unconsciously began channeling her Anodite Mana, until her Magic and Anodite powers mixed without Gwen noticing.

[@jakuboleksiak2115]

💩💩

[@darkousdragon1166]

I always felt this was wat they was trying to say

[@jakuboleksiak2115]

@@darkousdragon1166 Anodites suck. And nothing will change my mind.

[@d_xbombk]

It does makes sense a little tbh

[@Jayquinator-X]

That would also explain the color change

[@ML1399TheyStoleMyName]

My issue with the "Magic is just aliens" thing is that the original series was filled with weird paranormal/supernatural stuff, and aliens was just a facet of that. Hex was a wizard, Kevin was a mutant, Zombozo was...well I'll be honest I'm not really sure what Zombozo was. Its just weird and frustrating that the series started with a very wide scope of things that exist in its world, then went out of its way to limit that scope later. Also Ben being 1/4th alien feels...wrong.

[@unknownbystander8145]

According to their wiki both Hex and Charmcaster are recognized as humans despite apparently being former residents of Ledgerdomain . Which begs the question, why does Gwen need to have an alien heritage when her two most powerful enemies are apparently just human magic-users?

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Ah yeah, I thought I was the only one who thought ben having alien heritage feels off. I know by all standards he’s functionally human, raised human etc. but its the lack of connections to his annodite connections that also make it more glaring when thought about. Each galactic deed he’s done of no apparent notice to them, no impact, no repercussions. Its kinda sad. Like bens an unwanted star child….gosh I’m thinking too hard about it.

[@dyzieklalune5536]

@@unknownbystander8145 because Hex and Charmcaster were born in Legerdomain, that's why they have magic powers and Gwen needs to be Anodite.

[@ZelphTheWebmancer]

These are my thoughts exactly

[@unknownbystander8145]

​@@dyzieklalune5536 In Omniverse other magic users were introduced that were also human so clearly one does not need a alien heritage to learn magic. With that said, it's obvious that the alien heritage was just added in to explain how Gwen was able to match Charmcaster in her early years, which didn't really need an explanation..

[@Tarourl]

My headcannon was that when Gwen made pink touchable constructs she used her annodite powers, and the actual spells still were there, the ones in the spell book, those are actual magic. But her annodite genes made it so her magic is stronger

[@ebensennett3095]

Yeah, that would make sense. I always thought that that should be the explanation as to why in the original series Gwen had blue magic, and in UAF Gwen had pink mana.

[@zthemartian616]

@@Hat_Man494 I mean the pink touchable constructs are just mana, the energy of magic. Its not really one or the other. It's more like spells are casting a specific effect while her constructs are just blatant warping of mana into form.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@zthemartian616 (I couldn't reply to Hat_Man494) It is the Nasuverse's [Gradient Air] vs Greeen Lantern's will constructs. One is a spell to create objects, the other skips casting and goes directly into materialization. Both are short term options.

[@claytonwayne2546]

I always kinda felt that Gwen learning magic in the classic series activated her Annodite powers in full. Especially since she’s only 1/4th Annodite. Not sure if that’s actually the case but that’s my head cannon.

[@adamnapolitano432]

The thing about the "Pound your grandma" line is that when the episode came out nobody cared or payed attention to it because you either watched Ben 10 or you didn't. If you didn't then you just wouldn't know of it and if you did then you most likely didn't think much of it because you just busy paying attention the the episode itself. It's only years later when looking back on it out of context that people can find the shits and giggles about it. That's what I think anyways.

[@MarshallLeeA]

Don't worry, Anodytes are just Servantis' creation and then he implanted fake memories into everyone's brains, Ben and every other of Verdona's descendants aren't real

[@cartoonishidealism582]

Truly an evil genius that Servantis

[@peronafanman]

The entire Ben 10 universe is just Servantis's fake memories.

[@horseoperamarker]

@@peronafanman yes

[@proskelite1875]

What!! So Anodytes are not real beings????

[@gekozilla7339]

@@proskelite1875 no its just a joke about how every contradiction in kevins ov backstory is solved by servantis giving everyone fake memories

[@MrX_UNI]

I always did wish Ben got to interact more with Verdona. That last line of her acknowledging him was pretty wholesome. Who knows? Perhaps post Highnreed she really could have come back and helped humble our boy out of concern since unlike Gwen, he doesn't have much go in for him (at this point) without the Omnitrix. Well that and making up for lost time with both him and Gwen

[@ardzzz1010]

Idk but Ben seems to be more a grandpa's boy since Max is the only one on the Tennyson family who can understand him

[@ROEb0t17]

I think that I think that anodites not having DNA does not make sense primarily because of someone like NRG who he's basically an anodite except your radiation based. Rather I think that Ben can't transform into an anodite because he's already a quarter anodite similarly to how he can't transform into another human.

[@darthgon146]

Interesting theory

[@markericksoncalunod1053]

Just a thought NRG's composition may have structural composition. I mean he can be composed with hydrogen/helium base cells - like the Sun. But the Anodites are embodiment of ENERGIES

[@jasonnguyen2575]

That would be a good theory, but unfortunately that’s not how Anodite biology works as clarified IN THIS EPISODE. You either have “the spark” or you don’t. There is no “half” or “quarter” Anodite.

[@ROEb0t17]

@@jasonnguyen2575 I'm not a biology major but my interpretation doesn't contradict verdona's explanation. Much like how a blue eyed man and a brown eyed woman can have 3 kids and only one has blue eyes. U could possess anodite DNA but it could be a recessive trait (phenotype) hence no spark while gwen could possess anodite DNA but have it be a presenting trait (genotype) and have anodite powers.

[@jasonnguyen2575]

@@ROEb0t17, I mean I’m not one either. It’s simply that your theory doesn’t line up with the show’s logic. Again, good theory, but we’re not talking about conventional biology here. After all, Dwayne clarified that genetically, Gwen is 100% human. Which is proven in the show by Eunice, whose human body was created by Gwen’s DNA, not having any Anodite powers. The spark is just a trait passed on by Anodites that gives anyone who posses it to become one. That’s it, no ifs or buts.

[@tiagotiagot]

I never thought of it as a retcon; just felt like an explanation for Gwen's already established affinity with magic and a bit of world-building in regards to the nature of magic in the Ben 10 reality.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

One Piece is the king of world building even to this day, but what Ben 10 UAF was character assassination and retconning the shit out of her established character.

[@amirmatthews7385]

​@Roronoa Zoro I love one piece, but God damn do I HATE the fan base.

[@xXLunatikxXlul]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr I feel this.

[@Dredagoat30]

Yeah but wouldn’t that mean charmcaster is an antidote

[@tiagotiagot]

@@Dredagoat30 I believe you mean to say "anodite". And no, not necessarily, there could be more than one species with magical abilities, she could be getting help from amulets or some other magical artifacts etc.

[@erikm8373]

When talking about the anodite physical form, you ask "why couldn't a genderless being have a female figure" but I think there could actually be a reason as to why genderless beings in fiction tend to appear more like a male. If you were to remove the "gendered" elements of a female body, I believe two of the more noticeable physical effects would be narrower hips (as the pelvis would not need to be wide enough for a child) and not having breasts (the body wouldn't need them if it couldn't produce a child). On the other side, the main effect of removing the gendered elements of a male body would be the removal of testosterone, which would likely result in a general reduction of body mass and size, and probably less hair on the body, but I don't think this would have as distinct of an impact on the overall structure of the body. Due to this, a genderless being might appear to have a more "masculine" figure because a genderless body would likely be structurally closer to a male body than a female one. Your perception of a character could also be impacted by how they are presented (clothes, personality, voice, etc.). Keep in mind, though, that I am not in any way a biologist, so this entire tangent I've just gone off on could be completely incorrect in every way and I wouldn't be surprised I will also note that I agree with you on the fact that there do seem to be a lot of "genderless" characters in fiction that seem to be pretty heavily male-coded

[@zanzeron4277]

A more meta reason behind a lot of genderless figures being more masculine in general form could just be the fact being bigger and broader is more intimidating and conveys raw physical strength. With Anodites, their default form being more feminine is an actually rather interesting notion because such a form conveys greater mental power and graceful strength over the qualities of raw strength and intimidation that are given to nameless grunts and robots.

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

Love this comment so much

[@WingMaster562]

Draw a stick figure and it's already a stickman. To make it stickgirl, you usually add a skirt or tits.

[@arvathi]

Personally I think anodites would be better as formless beings that change their body shape to what they prefer like a mixture of fashion and need when they create the skin suit they change their shape to fit it. Gwen looks female because as a human she is so she does it naturally, while Verdona and sunny both wore skin suits so they take a more feminine form to fit inside. That's just my take though.

[@stephaniewilliams6756]

The base form is a female one male is just adding on. Its just basic developmental facts.

[@Truck-kun11]

Gwen being part Anodite doesn't mean her powers aren't Magic. Some of them might not be, but almost everything she does other than energy beams and shields is Magic. Being an Anodite, she just has access to a lot more Mana than an average human.

[@christopherbennett5858]

Well, Magic is often attributed to sciences people have yet to understand so it makes that kind of sense.

[@gamingnubs7628]

My headcanon is: anyone can do magic, but people with "the spark" have their natural magic amplified 10 fold

[@Truck-kun11]

@@gamingnubs7628 Future Ben that appears in Ultimate Alien knew how to use some magic

[@unknownbystander8145]

They changed Gwen's affinity with magic to magic because of an alien heritage which removes what originally set her apart from her family. The only benefits Gwen's anodite heritage seem to give is a high mana capacity (which you have no way off being able to tell the difference off) and her anodite form which only appeared a grand total of 4 times, the first two being shown for shock value, the third she was defeated in an instant, and the fourth she just curb-stomped Humongasaur who by that point was already beaten/curb-stomped by other villains multiple times . Even her future version was never shown accessing this form despite clearly being better(both in terms of knowledge and magical prowess) than her younger version. With all that said, it's clear that this was only added in to explain why she was able to match Charmcaster, which didn't really need an explanation.

[@thecreepers3478]

*A retcon happens in omniverse* People:"It ruined the entire series" *A retcon happens in AF/UA* People:"ima gonna pretend that I didn't see that coming.."

[@rodrigor.2847]

I really hate every retcon in uaf. Even more than the ominiverse retcons.

[@SeyeAwonuga]

@@rodrigor.2847 Especially with Kevin's back story. One minute he talks about memories with his dad then the other he says he never knew him. Very confusing.

[@jakuboleksiak2115]

@@rodrigor.2847 You're not alone bro

[@louaidz1929]

My memory is wack can you remind what other retcons omniverse had other than kevin backstory

[@vesha6274]

No, both are treated quite harshly, but the UAF one is more believable than the OV retcons

[@thomasraines1396]

I honestly preferring her being a regular sorceress instead of being an energy alien as a personal preference, however I’m ultimately fine with her being an energy alien.

[@chrissouthey5748]

I've been waiting for this to share this theory. Perhaps Ben is unable to transform into an Anodite, maybe not just because of the "No DNA", but due to being a Human-Anodite hybrid, and is thus too genetically similar for the Omnitrix to be able to justify a transformation

[@ReptillianStrike]

I like that.

[@nateds7326]

That's what I always thought.

[@LeeDraw69]

I'm stealing this theory

[@Dredagoat30]

@@nateds7326but I mean can’t he just learn magic like charmcaster did bc really anyone can learn magic if they put in the time

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@Dredagoat30one of his future did

[@loturzelrestaurant]

What bothers me Most is still Verdonas Attitude. Makes me question just how lawless this Universe is meant to be. I mean, Anodites can apparently just decide to kinda-kill people; and the Frog-People seemed unopposed and on a Massacre-run. WTF?

[@drakearvidsson6936]

Hate to say it but that’s what happens when you give humans superpowers or nuclear bombs. The victims will be endless.It’s a plothole to suggest otherwise.People only follow the law because they don’t have the power to oppose it. If you could warp reality it would be very likely that you wouldn’t listen to the opinions from less powerful beings. In the beginning of your own life maybe.But thousands upon years down the line would you really take advice from a monkey,That’s what physsical beings/humans are to energy beings like anodites inferior creatures

[@JaelinBezel]

To be fair, Earth is practically plumber-free at this point and that’s probably the only law enforcement she’d care about. Moreover, Verdona, as a rep of what Anodites are like, come off as one of those scary-powerful blue-and-orange morality races.

[@HelenaSan425]

Ben: no Verdona: shame ink tank: so you're worthless me: savage!

[@ardzzz1010]

Ben could've just said: "but I can turn in to a million kinds of aliens, oh and one of them can erase your existence in just a blink, grandma".

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@ardzzz1010Yeah…Not here tho

[@wiser33]

The fact that Brainstorm fight scenes in omniverse is literally just a parody from Sherlock 😂😂

[@skibot9974]

Really?!

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@skibot9974 yeah! Loom up the whole discombobulate scene and the resemblance is uncanny:

[@onyxcam6ion55]

Ikr glad I wasn't the only one that caught it.

[@FraserSouris]

"Too much Aliens" I feel there is weight to this complaint. Yeah, the Classic Series may also have said things had Alien Origins but there were plenty of times where it was just Earth Stuff or the Alien influence was more subtle. It led to a more diverse world. Even Harry Potter still had times where the characters spend time in the Muggle World using Muggle things with minimal use of magic. Plus, I feel making Gwen an annodite kinda cheapens her abilities. Her learning magic in Classic seems redundant when she only had to wait a few years to get energy powers anyway. Her powers now aren't a result of her learning magic and taking the time to perfect it but now something genetic to her. Even saying "she's combining her powers". Ok, but what's the difference between a magic energy blast and an annodite blast? Plus, Gwen now has fewer powers to use. Stuff like inflating herself or setting stuff on fire etc. Pink Energy Beams aren't as varied as magic.

[@neilstone3583]

Mana is in many fantasy elements and is what is used for magic. Even in those stories you have beings of pure magic so to me that's what Anodites are pure magic. Also it doesn't cheapen her that's like saying Goku is cheapened by being a Saiyan but he isn't he still had to train the same thing with Gwen she still had to train

[@nactickthedestroyerofworld2565]

Honestly I think Gwen being an annodite does kinda cheapen her powers kinda being a sayian cheapens Goku's, I mean Everytime Goku gets his ass beat he gets a zenkai boost when he heals greatly increasing his everything, and in a world with instant healing sensu beans that's kinda over powered. He also used the zenkai magic bean combo on his way to namek to get a massive boost in training. Hell even Vegeta used bulshit zenkai heal combo when fighting Frieza, He lowered his defense and told krillin to hit him with everything he's got and then had Dende magically heal him for a power boost mid fight. And with Gwen it cheapens her because it's no longer as impressive that she learned magic on her own because she would have developed this power anyhow. And ya can't say she wouldn't have developed her current power set since she only uses pink annodite energy blasts and shields regardless now. Her beating charm caster isn't as impressive because of her annodite powers. Her grandpa boinked an alien and now she's special isn't as cool as a girl learning magic by herself to fight aliens attacking her home. Do I hate annodites? no it's still cool. It was also cool seeing a normal human stand a chance when every alien in the galaxy seems to be better than humans. She didn't need power armer or guns just her will a hand gesture and words. It was neat and cool. She had something most aliens didn't, magic. After all the aliens have better body's and powers and technology. Pretty much every alien had something that made them special but humans, and that's fine humans as a whole aren't space age yet but they didn't have change Gwen to make aliens even cooler they already were. Annodites are cool and I don't mind them, but they didn't have to change Gwen, she was more impressive before and had a far broader skillet. Now her powers are a worse green lantern rip off but pink.

[@neilstone3583]

@@nactickthedestroyerofworld2565 yeah. I get that but he still trains hard. You try training in gravity that's hundreds of times that of earth's

[@neilstone3583]

@@nactickthedestroyerofworld2565 we don't know if she would have developed powers or not. The no watch Ben timeline has a Gwen and I don't believe she developed her powers. It was most like that her powers were dormant until she learned magic

[@gaymerjerry]

Even in the original series Charmcaster says when shes in gwens body she can only cast spells because Gwen already possessed a magical aura. That implies magic isnt something anyone can do and it requires either a gift that you or born with or cultivate. So it feels more an explanation to why she had a magical aura to begin with being part annodite gave her the ability to use magic because how annodites can manipulate energy. Not to say they didnt undermine the whole magic thing after this reveal my point is at least in the original series there is a loose thread that the annodite explanation ties up about gwen using magic

[@crystalmoon101]

I've always loved the concept of Anodites, and never thought they ruined the magic aspect of the show. Because we still have things like Charmcaster and Ledgerdomain around, and to me it makes sense that there would be alien races out there that can use magic, because it would be kind of strange that only humans can. We've even seen Addwaitya, who is a Geochelone Aerio that can use magic, similar to a human who can use magic. To be, having an alien race about magic feels like it expands more in the universe, rather than tying it down just to earth.

[@herowither12354]

​@caitlyncarvalho7637No, it was just UAF's hatred of anything other than aliens.

[@omniverse7976]

Seriously though, I know that anodites don’t have DNA, therefore the omnitrix doesn’t have a sample for Ben to transform into, but seriously, Ben 10K using mana proves that he also has the spark. So I wish in more than one episode he used some more mana and magic. Or maybe since he has an anodite ancestor, the omnitrix senses the magic and can make the form easier or less permanent. Seriously a green anodite ben sounds dope as shit!

[@arixgaming9583]

The omnitrix can’t sense the magic because magic and technology can’t mix. We learned it from when they were kids

[@vullord666]

@@arixgaming9583 theoretically ben could serve as a conduit. It’d be really interesting if the Omnitrix 2.0 had become mana “aware” after being exposed to Ben so long and specifically manufactured for him with Azmuth deeming Ben worthy. Like imagine the Omnitrix just having a spark of mana and infusing it into some transformations or using ben as an intermediary to analyze magic based attacks.

[@nullpoint3346]

@@arixgaming9583 [Bullshit blocker of awesome detected: Initiating counterpoint.] Magic and technology are incompatible because magic _replaces_ technology where it is present. (Why invent the horizontal pulley if every random sage can do a spaz-tic dance and move 2 tons at 5 feet a second?) There is no acceptable explanation as to why magic can't be used alongside technology in worlds where magic was only recently discovered _beyond_ a lack of experience and _specific_ interactions. For example, a metal shaping spell would devastate clockwork in the hands of someone with twitchy hands. D&D Divination being stopped by thin lead (brings to mind CRT TVs for some reason) implies that small amounts of radiation shielding is sufficient to prevent it.

[@edwardbo4666]

I always hated that explanation. It makes little sense to me and I feel just using that Ben had anodite ancestors would have been enough

[@darthgon146]

I think even if Anodites really don't have DNA, they still have some kind of genetic matierial that carries the same properties as DNA. If they don't, Verdona wouldn't be able to pass on her power to Gwen hereditarily.

[@georges2842]

Here's a headcanon for ya: Verdona came back to Earth to act as its protector after Max's supposed death. After meeting Ben and Gwen, she imposed a test to see if they could protect the planet on their own. She really did want to take Gwen with her, but she never actually intended to do so by force.

[@zthemartian616]

By all means in the series, Mana is magical energy. Charmcaster even acknowledges this and says Gwen is made of magic and Gwen comments on the magic of Ledgerdomain when she enters. Gwen using her pink energy constructs is just her manipulating life energy without directly using spells. We know humans can learn magic including characters like Charmcaster, Bezel, and Hex, but we have seen Charmcaster and I think Hex use energy without casting a specific spell. That would be mana. I actually really like the Anodites concept and I even heard they wanted to do a Gwen show but it wasn't picked up by the Network.

[@megacrashthehedgehog5377]

I took issue with it at first when they claimed there wasn't any real magic, but I came to except it when they reestablished that both magic and Anodites exist. Gwen just happens to have both powers.

[@Neutral_Tired]

I feel like Anodites can probably change their energy form, that just seems like something they'd be able to do (Also, Gwen's energy form changes in Omniverse, so it's not out of the question). So, when Ben turned into one he'd be a bit more masculine because that's how he identifies so he'd subconsciously put himself into that form.

[@nigel5469]

It's quite common that not every children remembers or even talked about their own grandparents. Heck, I'd never met or knew my own parental grandfather because he passed away when I was at least 3 or 4 years old. Barely remember or even ask my parents to talk about him until recently. As for Gwen's position, I would think it's best to ask Verdona to come visit and teach her about Anodite Magic during weekend or freetime while self-learning with her own magic. I mean, Gwen sure has busy schedule (Not So Easy Being Gwen from Ultimate Alien) to deal with, but in the end, she's able to manage it. This would be a best alternative option, instead of just choosing either of them. And of course, avoiding the fight with Verdona. But then again, Verdona never takes things serious, unless she felt threatened or her family in danger. BTW, nice work with your comic. That is definitely fitting for your Halloween Day. Gives me a jump scare when Danny's new and darkest form awakened from accidentally fall into The Void's powerful nightmare

[@dannyphantom3090]

Agreed I never knew my grandparents on my father side and have never seen a picture of them so this plot wasn't as far fetched to me as I could relate

[@Crystal_959]

I never really bought the idea of anodites not having dna. Wouldn’t really make sense for Verdona to be able to procreate with Max if that was the case, especially if there’s heritable traits going on. I always thought Ben not being able to transform into an anodite was the same reason he couldn’t turn into a human. Because the Omnitrix can’t turn you into what you already are. Powers or not, Ben would be part anodite, so the Omnitrix wouldn’t turn him into one.

[@pumpkin6192]

Makes you wonder how Humans and Anodites breed

[@johny1220]

I also wonder, how was Gwen ever able to originally wear the Omnitrix from the parallel universe if she has no DNA or something, because her and Ben were only able to wear it due to them having the same DNA as Max, or does Gwen as a human have DNA but as a full Anodite she doesn’t?? Hmm..

[@pumpkin6192]

@@johny1220 it's like 1+0=1 So even if Anodite has 0 DNA,Humans have at least 1 DNA so the answer would at least be 0

[@jwseven77]

@@pumpkin6192 i think anodites pass "their" dna through the body they make so in the case of Max and Verdona they'd probablly had coitus while Verdona was in her human form

[@nekoneko7329]

Verdona in her Anodite form has no DNA. As a human (or any other race she wants) creates a vessel to hold her, that has DNA. So Max having DNA A and her having DNA B (while human), she can pass down the traits of her body. She could've been fuller, blonde, with acne. Yet she chose slim, ginger and with a clear complexion,those traits that Gwen has,further adding to the creator's statement that the bodies they choose to create ("any kind they like") have DNA and unique features that can be passed down to generations and can breed.

[@seanamaso2091]

Love the episode, LOVE the breakdown, but I got to say I love your design of Anodites over thr franchise's design. It feels more celestial and magical. A testament to your art skills!

[@TheInkTank]

Thank you very much!

[@monothephantom]

Back when I saw this episode I kinda interpreted both magic and anodites worked in unision. I personally concluded anodites were a race formed from magical energies (basically mana beings) and hence found it easier to perfrom and master magic. However plenty of other species could engage in using magic as long as they could connect themselves to mana in some way (whether it was natural or by some other cause). In Gwens case its because she was partially anodite she had simply had her powers and connection to mana surpressed in her human form until she began to teach herself how to utilize it. This made sense to me with prexisting characters and artifacts using magic when I doubted all of them were anodite.

[@calvinkopp1735]

It’s also surprisingly a heartwarming episode for Gwen and her family. Gwen mourning her grandfather, her conflicted between her humanity and her Anodite side and Ben encouraging her that’s it’s up to her, Kevin wanting her to stay and a heartfelt conversation between her and her grandmother. ❤️ 🌸

[@franciscorui]

I always thought anodites were just energy beings made of magic. Like the energy they are made of is just the essence of magic itself.

[@taha_boy]

I love the explanation that Ben can't transform into an anodite because he technically does have 25% anodite DNA and because the Omnitrix can't let Ben transform into something he already shares DNA of, he can't become an anodite. It makes way more sense and also explains how Ben 10K had some slight anodite abilities.

[@theendersmirk5851]

Yeah, that's my headcanon of it too, because the excuse of "Anodites OP, plz nerf" doesn't really work when you consider, say, Alien X, or even NRG, who is just a different type of energy being.

[@Darkrin]

I never thought about this, nice one!

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

That is also my headcannon too. I always picture the Annodite DNA is more recessive compared to Human DNA.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec Considering we've had 2 Tennysons whose Annodite sides are active (3 if you count Ben 10,000 in ultimate alien), I can see where you're coming from. In fact, you could even speculate that its linked more to the XX chromosomal pair if you consider UA Ben 10,000 and Hex exceptions to the rule.

[@tennoyamamoto1800]

This possibility never even crossed my mind

[@vetarlittorf1807]

It bothers me that Ken isn't in Gwen's family photo. Seriously, why did the writers ignore his existence?

[@Xx_SuperPenis_xX]

i totally forgot about him the writers too probably lol

[@Nobody-zl3kk]

Haven't checked the credits nor do I have any evidence for this but maybe both episodes were i production almost simultaneously and Ken was a late addition to the former, prompting that there was no notion of his existence in this episode. No plans were made for ken perhaps, he was just the product of a writer giving more weight to an episodes plot, and therefore no one cared to ever expand upon his existence. Idk, just a theory.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

@@Nobody-zl3kk That's just bad writing. Why introduce a brother of a main character only to pretend he never existed? If anything, it would make more sense for him to be on Team Tennyson instead of Kevin.

[@andrewli8900]

Given that Ben's parent in at least parallel ending of the classic series were so anti-alien, anti-whatever-grandpa-max's-parent-style was, I find it unsurprising that Gwen and Ben have no idea that they an alien grandmother.

[@Kahadi]

Keep in mind that just like how "ages" could mean a long time for a being that lives so long, "now and then" could be pretty long for her as well. Maybe she reappears to check on them in twenty years, outside of the series, which to her feels like only a month?

[@SM-th7pw]

I like Gwen being an anodite, but my only problem is that it makes her discovery and learning of magic in the prior show kinda redundant coz she’ll grow into having magical powers later on anyway.

[@eldesconocidosenork5981]

Thank you Kuro for re-doing the lost scenes and not giving up on the breakdowns. We'll keep it fizzy! (Btw, thanks for leaving the Kevin's pounding gag. An least I appreciate it)

[@emanuelrojas2]

I feel like this is a case of “Aliens know Magic”. Anodites might just be a race of aliens that natural know how to use magic (since they are made of living mana) and they just need to practice it like any other magic user.

[@Sharkakaka]

Like humans almost instinctively understand trajectories? I mean, our most recognizable abilities is throwing stuff far away accurately, having a great endurance and good intelligence...

[@emanuelrojas2]

@@Sharkakaka exactly

[@fatimajaiteh9437]

6:04 Kuro The Artist, you fool!! You underestimate Infinite Tennyson Speed !

[@P6ho6]

I never knew this was a big thing. I mean the first time Anodites were introduced I thought it was explained neatly. From she was young, she had great magical prowess and control. And she as able to use Hex's Staff which only a Master Magician should be able to use. In Alien Force it was given an explanation: due to her being an Anodite Anodites are beings who live and feed on life energy (Mana) being entirely composed of the energy. Energy beings Magic is just utilizing Mana with commands and rituals to achieve certain effects. Anodites are an entire step up since they can directly manipulate and control to their whim (with practice) the very energy that makes magic... MAGIC

[@P6ho6]

In other words... I thought they just added another facet to magic... Not retconning it

[@Lorili]

True, I never fully understand why some fans hated it. I really like the Anodite lore because it shows that humans arent the only magic wielding race in the universe, there are also other creatures as well. Gwen being Anodite makes sense as well because she has always had the potential for raw power. Meanwhile her antecedent Charmcaster, is much more about knowledge, tricks, and tactics. That could’ve set them up to have theur own spin off series to explore the mystical side of the Ben 10 universe as well.

[@evergreens0173]

@@Lorili that could be it but at the same time Gwen is just too dumb for her to use pink glass than to use spells and utilize them Like it’s not hard for a side character to receive such equal treatment as Ben, And it would’ve been nice to see her to practice more of using her spells rather than just using her pink glass

[@thegameplays6758]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@Lorilipart of the reason why I hate it is because it actually ruins the concept of her knowing magic through learning it and using it at her fullest plus she puts in a lot of effort for a spell compared to alien force and ultimate alien where all she does is using pink disc and pink shields, I mean sure she did some spells but the most spell she used is turbo and that was it, there was nothing creative about that plus she got a lot weaker too,Im sorry but I won’t count her as anodite since there was no mention of it in the original series.

[@SiddharthShenoy]

I'd say that if I were in Gwen's position with Verdona's offer. I'd tell her that I have to beat the Hybrid first since that is a huge problem earth has to face. Then I'd leave for Anodyne. I mean come on, if we could learn half the shit Verdona can do then who wouldn't want to leave with her. Edit: About Body destroying thing, I mean as long as I get to keep my mind, I really don't give a shit, hopefully she'll make it as painless as she can.

[@dannyphantom3090]

Yeah I would ask her to make it painless plus she said I can make any form I want so it's probably not that bad.

[@unknownbystander8145]

Unfortunately it seems that never happened. According to Omniverse, Gwen decided to learn real magic under Hex and her future version was never shown accessing this form, which only goes to show how pointless her anodite heritage was.

[@Loguer]

Tbf, humans die faster than anodites. You can just wait before your human body weakens, and then you become a full anodite.

[@bubblemonkeys]

That's funny because anakins body and his brain was destroyed.

[@misterytoon]

honestly her having magical powers instead of alien powers is better for me

[@jakuboleksiak2115]

Welcome in the club brother.

[@tevineleven11]

Same. I feel like so much stuff from the original series got retcon into being Aliens with the fun out of it a bit

[@jakuboleksiak2115]

@@tevineleven11 yeah. It makes the whole world smaller and less interesting.

[@justindeliwe8065]

@@tevineleven11 exactly this is exactly why ben 10 alien force is terrible

[@lewisclements6290]

I just like the idea of Gwen being an alien but using magic to help channel her powers as she's inexperienced with them. Keeps magic around as a pivotal point but and keeps the power variety about. Like in UA, when she travels back in time because of magic. It's not wiped from the show or her power set, if anything it's more interesting and shows why gwen is stronger than charmcaster despite charmcaster having a magical upbringing

[@comicalpeculiarity6174]

It definitely feels strange that Verdona doesn’t return after this episode much. I liked her character in this episode a lot and given her familial role, it feels odd she wouldn’t drop by like she said she would. But eh, Ken gets side lined too so I guess this isn’t a new trend

[@redonslaught3019]

I always thought of it as both natural and mystical, meaning certain races would be more adept in manipulating the magical forces. Anodites seemed to be made of Mana or magic power, so them being able to use some magics would be akin to breathing... So them being able to use basic magics without spells or focus would likely to be considered basic abilities instead of magical spells.

[@maestrulgamer9695]

21:16 Most likely magic in Ben 10 is like using ki in Dragon Ball. In theory anyone can learn to use it,but only 1 specie is build specifically to manipulate it.

[@Truck-kun11]

So, one thing we can agree on....Grandpa Max has a real crush on Aliens

[@22Hammy]

i think what makes shows like this cool is that your main characters are still human even if they have alien powers, in the end, theyre still human which makes it more relatable. gwen becoming a completely different species is way to crazy. i think her just having magic powers would be cooler. plus, the magic powers are cooler than making pink shields

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Exactly. Mysticism and the arcane are things beyond comprehension and at times just happen under certain circumstances. It doesn't need to be quantified or explained.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@vetarlittorf1807 , I’ve always felt that Gwen having magic and Ben having the Omnitrex was to show that even though Ben has an alien watch Gwen herself doesn’t need alien powers in combat, and the episode Kuro the Artist used to justify the retcon for Gwen being an alien instead of magic user would only make logical sense if she traveled Anodone and master full control of the Anodite powers perfectly to being on equal footing as Ben and Kevin.

[@22Hammy]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr exactly, plus it makes no sense why her grandmother would come now to train her. did she have to wait until gwen was a teenager to teach her the powers?

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@22Hammy , Ben 10 Alien Force also retconed Gwen’s grandmother because yes she was an alien that Grandpa Max married and had a family with, but she wasn’t a person that could mana/use magic.

[@CapsirusPrime]

Kuro calling Sephiroth “Long Haired McShoulder Dude” and “Long Sword Buckle Man” is so funny

[@cosmicwolf9918]

I prefer this design of Verdona over the unused Omniverse version.

[@N.I.A23]

Omniverse design is oozing with personality. Her design in uaf is the damn same as gwen and sunny. How people still like this soulless and lifeless arstyle is beyond me. Even the reboot had more personality.

[@N.I.A23]

@UltimateDiamondBolt Uaf isn't appealing to the eye. It bores me to death. Everytime they go to another planet or fight in the dark it looks so awful. I hate looking at it it makes me feel dead on the inside. If omniverse came first, you would realise how shitty uaf artstyle is. There is nothing good about it beside the aliens "looking cool" (that before they move and you realise how stiff the animation is or how all the aliens from the species look the goddamn same).

[@N.I.A23]

@UltimateDiamondBolt And spectacular spider-man had great artstyle. Spiderman tas had all the characters having the same body build (even jjj, who shouldn't be muscular). Spectacular gave the designs personality especially Eddy brock

[@N.I.A23]

@UltimateDiamondBolt OK, maybe spectacular artstyle isn't that great. But that doesn't mean uaf is good. All the humans looked the freaking same but with diff eyes and hair color. Like why tf does devin look like prof paradox??

[@mayotango1317]

​@@N.I.A23No her personality. Verdona is kinda Iris Wildthyme.

[@AJTaiyou]

I think the combining powers bit was more, instead of splitting focus between how strong the mana ball was AND controlling its flight, by having Spidermonkey slingshot it, Gwen was able to fully focus on making the mana ball hurt

[@crossfire34]

I've been waiting for this episode.

[@Osama_Rashid]

I'm glad they didn't retcon Magic completely or the Classic Series would've ended up making no sense. (At least for each episode where Hex or Charmcaster appeared).

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

8:55 So this is how I understood it 1. Jetray starts shooting from his tail 2. Verdona creates a mana bubble around Jetray's tail who keeps shooting 3: Jetray keeps firing from the tail in order to break the mana bubble, which keeps growing due to the amount of energy 4. Jetray starts also firing from his eyes in another to free himself 5. The bubble explodes since it can no longer contain the amount of energy 6. The explosion ends up damaging Jetray

[@DrewsterRooster37]

I like how they progressed it, afterall, in the original show, Gwen ends up better at magic than Charm Caster. I like how saying she's an anodite amplifies her powers, and makes it come easier to her including how she doesn't need to say spells out loud to cast them, but she still needs to learn.

[@qwefg3]

Mostly I hated the episode because it felt like the straw breaking the camel's back. Kevin gets a retcon, Plumbers turn from Men in Black to "Nope just alien FBI", and then this episode saying " Magic? Obviously it was all alien powers". It felt like Alien Force was becoming ashamed of Ben Ten. Yes it was retcon or "explained" in future seasons that magic still existed... But at that time it was removing magic when it had been established to be a thing.

[@Harrison11106]

Exactly, thank you.

[@N.I.A23]

I always felt like omniverse had WAAY more love to the og series.

[@sebastiansuazo2734]

I mean, gwen being an anodite doesn't invalidate magic at all, manipulating mana and straight up magic are way different, being an anodite didn't save gwen from losing his soul to charmcaster and is very obvious that neither charmcaster or anyone from ledger domain are aliens by any means, the plumbers being seen as men in black made sense since the og series didn't concentrated too much on things outside earth considering plumbers where known only by the high rank in the government and specially the pentagon, them being seen as space fbi makes more sense for this series since get to look outside the planet a lot more. More than anything gwen being an alien explains why she training like a week tops was enough for her to stand her ground against charmcaster who spended half her life to get to that level (and even then, charmcaster still mocks her for being so mediocre with her spells) is not like the series just pretended that magic being used against gwen was pointless now.

[@vesha6274]

@@N.I.A23 a bit too much love I'd say, they were retconning things from UAF to make them like how they were in the og series

[@jasonnguyen2575]

12:45 I’m surprised you didn’t mention this Kuro (especially when you brought up the now obscure Mission Impossible show for Barbra), but for any Buffy fans out there, Juliet was the lover/mate of the iconic vampire Spike, Drusilla. *cue Dru “naming all the stars” in the inside of a closed-off warehouse here* She played Dru in both Buffy and the spin-off Angel (which some consider to be the “framework” for a ton of Warner Brothers projects moving forward, Smallville, Arrowverse, and even Ben 10: Alien Force shows included). I’m surprised that Kuro doesn’t seem to know they exist, they’re great iconic shows! However, I understand you were in a media diving hole and didn’t want to get into any other ones further and also possibly due to the controversy of the creator. But, I was just putting it out there at the end of the day.

[@TheInkTank]

I have watched the Arrowverse but not Buffy. Neat fact! Thanks for sharing.

[@ucancallmekiy]

I’d like it if they went more in depth with mana and how it’s connected to magic, because in fiction, it’s common for mana to be the required to use magic. I would have personally preferred this take on it. It would make it more like a Naruto type system, while everyone has chakra, it takes certain people to use it at its fullest potential, and there are exceptional people who were born with advantages. I’m cool with Gwen’s heritage giving her an advantage, since she still had to work to get where she is, and her powers don’t change, they just expand. What I don’t like about the Anodite retcon isn’t the retcon itself, it’s just how Gwen’s powers just become less interesting, and it stays that way for the rest of the series’s.

[@ctshaffer1999]

Gwen: supposedly one of the “most powerful beings in the universe” Ben: survives the complete destruction of the universe without so much as flinching

[@kalumjackson4799]

World not universe

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

@@kalumjackson4799 *remembers that annihlarg moment* mmmm no the universe is right

[@kalumjackson4799]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 I was talking about Gwen, not Ben. Gwen is referred to as the most powerful being in the world and most people don’t remember the quote and say universe rather than world.

[@sxlproductions]

I mean Dagon wasn't wrong Gwen is the most powerful being in the universe Ben isn't strong strong, Ben is strong because of a gadget not like Gwen who has magic in herself Like some comment said somewhere" gwen is the most *proactive* powerful being in the universe

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@sxlproductions , Ben 10 Classic explained it perfectly though that take away the watch and take away the magic from Gwen, and they’re still great Plumbers as great if not greater than Grandpa Max because Magic is just a tool for Gwen for the same reasons on why the Nanoites are tools for Rex in Generator Rex, and Ben’s watch in Ben 10, and having Gwen having magic was putting Gwen on an equal playing field with Ben’s watch without her needing alien DNA, and if we’re going to use terms of realism to retcon mutants, magic, and other supernatural elements of Ben 10 then clearly Ben shouldn’t even need an Alien Watch at all, and Azmath should have infused the infinite numbers of Aliens DNA throughout the galaxy into either Ben or Grandpa Max for the Tennyson family members that don’t have the Aanodite genetics.

[@historyking9984]

I prefer the magic. Before it was unique. Ben had his omnitrix aliens,Gwen had her magic something she learned and grew skilled with on her own, and Max had his Plummer knowledge and weapons. Eventually Kevin joined in and had his differnt forms. But each was different. Then suddenly Gwen is an anodite energy aliens. She doesn’t really use magic as much just shooting energy beams and creating platforms . Spells used to be far more creative. And now she’s a powerful energy alien. Now Kevin’s an alien too. Everyone who was unique is now an alien.

[@davidperrii]

I love that this is a video omg! Gwen has always been my favorite character

[@alexanderchippel]

It's magic, but cosmic magic. And you can see they really wanted to lean into his with the Lovecraft inspiration in the college arch of Omniverse.

[@johngreen8344]

Nice! Since I saw Gwen and Zombozo's episode, I've always been fascinated by Gwen's powers and their source.

[@LittleLarge]

I remember seeing some post on the ben 10 subreddit that ben can’t become an anodite because he has enough genetic information in his body already considering that he’s already 1/4 anodite. I like to think that’s the reason instead of the “no dna” thingy.

[@jorgerosado2087]

Honestly, I don’t mind either of the two. I always just thought that Gwen knew magic from the start and being an Anodite just helped her harness those powers into something more. Never knew the fansbase was so split.

[@gamindanny2773]

20:40 dude my guy looks so defeated hearing this meme XD

[@GMYSTERYICTNF]

3:33 kevin is covered in stone, which would protect him from conducting electricity

[@nathanielmartins5930]

5:56 "Magic Kuro, I may not know how to teleport yet but I can still walk on air and practically levitate" Is what Gwen might have said if she heard you.

[@nt9807]

I think this show might be cooler if the main characters are 1 alien boy 1 sorceress and 1 mutant but instead we have 3 half alien teens

[@neeljavia2965]

Brainstorm only used the calculative abilities once in OV. He did the same in UA while defeating Julie at Mimi golf.

[@blastthechaos6083]

He only did that once in UA Meanwhile in OV while it was only once it sure as fuck made a big impression and was cool as fuck

[@StupidWeb]

I like the idea that magic ability is dictated by a mana pool, that being an anodite increases a thousand fold

[@skibot9974]

8:30 “that blast is thicker than Verdona” - -Kuro the Artist, 2021

[@a.summers9180]

I love the transition between the older footage & the newer footage. And the call back to the OG Ben 10 theme. 🤣 And holly crap! I did not realise Verdona was Barbra Bane. The first place I saw Barbra was as "Dr. Helena Russell" in Gary Anderson's Space 1999. Also, personal head canon: Mana and magic are one & the same. Think of it as "a rose by any other name..." situation. As for the creation of the anodites, maybe they were born of seeds of magic that just evolved into their current form.

[@LuxrayLloyd]

The "Oh my god, I'm a hypocrite" line was HILLARIOUS XD

[@carlosocasio2247]

12:32 I don’t know why but this part of him being a hypocrite made me laugh a lot