Magic Question: What is the best Deck Stack?

[@AstonishInc]

Richard Osterland: Breakthrough system: perfection.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice

[@andrewhockings6867]

I came here to say the same thing. What an amazing stack. It still does my head in how he came up with this.

[@brianmendenhall8387]

​@@andrewhockings6867how difficult is it to memorize?

[@ewallt]

It depends on your background. If you haven’t done it before, it takes awhile to get the knack of it. It’s not as hard as you might think, because there are devices to help which have been used for centuries, but like any skill it takes practice to perfect.

[@sydthemagician]

Many years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Simon, who graciously spent a few days teaching me the Aronson Stack. During that time, he taught me many things related to memorized decks and their effects. One of the most valuable lessons he imparted was that anything could be turned into a memorized deck. By taking aspects of other stacks and/or incorporating packet tricks, you could layer them over each other and create your own unique stack.

[@magicorthodoxy]

what a great story !!!

[@andrewhockings6867]

I have used multiple stacked decks in the past but I use the Osterlind breakthrough card system exclusively now. In my opinion this is the most diabolical stack ever. Can be learned in a night. I can’t recommend it enough.

[@magicorthodoxy]

thanks for the suggestion osterlindmysteries.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15

[@thecommonmagician]

Great video! This topic is so personal because needs are so different. Your recommendations are truly the 'big guns' when it comes to this kind of magic. I have done that exact same trainer method for other stacks, and found it to be very direct for brute force, rote memorization. It's got a "no nonsense" quality to it. The stack that I use is my own. It looks random upon spread and face up count. It can be easily indexed with crimps for mem-deck 'jazzing' and it has a couple minor variations to suit one's brain. I designed it for folks like me that have the memory capacity of a skid of bricks... and that is what it is for, to be memorized fast (literally an hour, at most, for the thickest of skulls). It has few built-in features and must be stacked ahead... but like memorizing a randomly shuffled deck, it is limited only by one's imagination. Check out "The Common Stack" by Carl Irwin at Penguin Magic if speed and longevity of a casually used mem-deck is your goal!

[@magicorthodoxy]

thanks for watching

[@raremage]

One of the things I’ve struggled with is the “CHaSeD” order because, as a young kid (35+ years ago) my grandmother (who supported my aspiration at the time to be a magician) got me a magic deck of cards as a gift. A huge part of it was based on card markings and one of the tricks was looking at a small circle that, based on the mark location, told you the suit. But they gave a little phrase to remember it, which was “Diamonds, Clubs, Hearts, Spades is the way Magic is made.” I’ve never been able to get that out of my head after memorizing it all those years ago. Yes, it’s still the same order, but rather than being able to shift my mind to “CHaSeD” I still have to sort of translate in my head from DCHS to CHSD. It annoys the heck out of me, but I’ve never been able to reprogram my mind to CHaSeD.

[@magicorthodoxy]

great comment

[@johnholly5206]

I think SHoCkeD order is easiest to remember as 1 point on Spade, 2 curves on heart, 3 circles on clubs, and 4 points on Diamond. Have fun reprogramming, raremage!

[@neelpetersen9893]

7:57 u say it must be perfect and u have 10H and 10D swapped in ur mnemonica haha

[@rikp]

I had a Deland's magic deck that used the mnemonic "Deland's Cards Have Superiority" for diamonds-clubs-hearts-spades, but I guess it's lucky I never really took to it. I like the SHoCkeD method someone else mentioned.

[@ianmaltby6388]

Richard Osterlind’s Breakthrough card system takes a while to learn but once you know all the short cuts it’s a doddle many magicians don’t even recognise it’s a stack as it just looks like a shuffled deck

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice !!

[@Migmir1313]

I waited this stack. For me, this is the best, but I am a big fan of Osterlind

[@ianmaltby6388]

@@Migmir1313 Hi Csaba yes it’s a great stack have you got all the short cuts to save you taking away 13 ? If not let me know and I will send them 👍👍😀😀😀😀

[@Migmir1313]

@@ianmaltby6388 please send me 😀😝

[@ianmaltby6388]

@@Migmir1313 hi Csaba if you want to send me your email address I have a few Richard Osterlind tutorials I don’t mind sharing with you okay so if you see a 7 think 1 If you see an 8 think 3 If you see a 9 think 5 If you see a 10 think 7 If you see Jack(11) think 9 If you see a Queen think 11 Example if I see the 7 of hearts I think 1 plus the 2 pips of the heart that’s 3 3 as you know is the same suit so the next card will be the 3 of hearts Example 2 If I see the 10 of spades I think 7 plus 1 pop on the spade = 8 Eight is a before suit so the next card will be the eight of diamonds Hope all that makes sense 👍👍👍😀😀😀😀

[@backwoodsbushcraftingbaffo9400]

Great information as always! I like to point people to the Karma Deck by the unkown mentalist. It is a shockingly simple way of working a stack. Thanks for another great video!

[@magicorthodoxy]

Thanks for sharing!

[@KarstenJohansson]

"Temporarily Out of Order" is by far the best name of all of them. I'm a Mnemonica guy, though. :) I don't use Juan's memorization methods tough. Instead, I use the mnemonic peg system as described by Derren Brown in his early books, since it readily lets me go from card->position and position->card instantly.

[@magicorthodoxy]

great comment

[@peterneuthinger858]

You should check the card decks of Thom Parkin. He has created a Mnemonica deck and an Aronson deck. The pictures on the cards make it very simple to memorize the stack.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice

[@jamesmarshall9742]

I was pleasantly surprised how Thom Parkin's system made it so easy to not just memorize the Mnemonica stack, but to fully know it the way you should when working with any memorized deck effects or routines. Using Thom’s Trainer Deck and the tips that he provides that are included in the private web page that supplements the deck, I was able to memorize the Mnemonica stack in less than 3 hours!

[@LiangHongWei]

My Favourite will be Si Stebbin Stack. It requires lesser memory work.

[@magicorthodoxy]

Good choice!

[@TheDigitalThreat]

I was taught the Si Stebbin deck when i was like 8 or 9 by a neighbor who was a magic hobbyist... (I didnt even know the stack name until this video but I recognize that sequence). It was the only trick I knew for decades (wasnt really a magic guy, I just had one deck set up to piss off my brother or drunk friends with). I'd even get risky and let people shuffle it sometimes and just hope the picked cards were still next to their proper neighbor. Oddly enough the shuffle never screwed me over~ Lucky, or a bad shuffler...! Now im much older and re-discovering magic and my god so much shit to learn/options its insane.

[@RobertBallMagician]

Great review on deck stacks David. 👍😊👍😊Huge loss on Simon Aronson when he passed in 2019.

[@magicorthodoxy]

So sad

[@pasqualepalazzoloentertain300]

Thanks for this one! I’m an Aronson stack worker only because it was the first stack I heard of. I own Mnemonica and enjoy Juan’s methods. I love doing stack independent effects that create incredible moments. I even think that “Mnemonicosis” pairs incredible well with the Aronson stack when you fix in your own methods for arriving at each card. I learned brute force without a mnemonic. My own flash cards and my own memory methods used in the past for memorizing a maximum amount of music charts and lyrics in marching band and in singing professionally. I’m a believer in learning a stack by a simpler method. I got to pitch in and add some ideas and inspiration to Thom Parkin’s Mnemonica and Aronson trainer decks. These learning tools Thom has created have helped my daughter and so many others learn the stack. I love the on-the-fly way of performing Shuffle-bored and the kind of deep, mental revelations you can do without the folded paper at the end.

[@magicorthodoxy]

I need to spend more time on the brute force method

[@pasqualepalazzoloentertain300]

@@magicorthodoxy do you use either of the Ultimate Trainer apps for iOS? Not sure if they exist on Android devices. I keep it on my phone to flash card myself on Aronson when I’m prepping in a break space before a performance or when sitting around waiting in an official office with long lines and short staff.

[@afk21117]

Great overview to stack decks. I’m fan of all the versions you covered. However, I first learned the Joyal (Shocked) stack cold so I’m kind of set. Thanks!

[@magicorthodoxy]

Thanks for sharing!

[@bakerb845]

Thanks for making this video. Just to add to the collective knowledge in the comments: I ended up using the system in Harry Lorayne's The Memory Book to learn the Tamariz stack but it will work with any. Also, I think I read this in an Ortiz book, but for those who want to be different - you can just shuffle a deck and memorize that order. Of course you won't inherit some of the features of the named stacks but you can still do a lot of amazing stuff.

[@magicorthodoxy]

great advice !!!

[@MagicMan8787]

The Memory Arts book by Sarah Trustmen & David Trustmen. Helped me lots.

[@magicorthodoxy]

here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6DXiaCaptdknZo

[@daverothberg2624]

nice presentation David … thanks 👍🏻👍🏻

[@magicorthodoxy]

Thanks 👍

[@guest3997]

David, thank you so much for this deck stack review. As always, a FANTASTIC VIDEO! Thank you for all you do! David (Dr. G)

[@magicorthodoxy]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@AndriLindbergs]

David, great video, but you missed the grandfather of all deck-stack. "Eight Kings". It is probably the oldest, older than "Si Stebbins". It is very simple in CHASED order "Eight [8] kings [K] threatened [three-tened 3 & 10] to send [7] nine [9] fine [5] ladies [Q] for one [A] sick [6] knave [J]". It may not be the best but probably the oldest. Currently I like Menemonica. You also omitted Richard Osterlind's stack which is pretty good.

[@magicorthodoxy]

Thanks for the info!

[@DGA2000]

Incredibly interesting topic that got me thinking. How many different stacks out there? What are their advantages and disadvantages? A little bit of investigating revealed an incredible number of different stacks. Probably hundreds. That said, as I looked further, I found stacks that were not only effect specific (mental magic, self-working magic, etc) but trick specific as well (one specific stack just for one specific trick). I'm finding out that most of the stacks recommended on YT are stacks that are the most versatile and can do the most with just one stack. Kind of like a one stack fits all which is probably a good approach in most cases, however, I can also see a whole performance based on different stacks for different types of specific effects. Where to start? It seems a whole encyclopaedia would be needed just to list and explain all the stacks that are available. Thank you for presenting a great topic and for getting me thinking as well.

[@shawnmcdowell5477]

This video was very informative on the deck stacks. The one I am using is the "Fiend Stack" by Paul Lesso.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice !!!

[@jacksonsmagic]

I recently purchased the F.A.S.T. project by Danial Johnson which uses a stack deck. I have tried to avoid them, but this little gem has changed my mind. Hope you review it soon, totally love the method.

[@magicorthodoxy]

I reviewed it in the member's section

[@TheRealWinsletFan]

My trainer deck(s) are the same, not sure how else one would do it. But I also have the memorisation deck, where the positions are applied to the card face, in memorable ways to make the initial associations and reinforce the weak ones as required.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice !!!

[@frankhong6313]

Lotta good tips. Thanks bro.

[@magicorthodoxy]

Any time!

[@SueTownream]

I use and love the Joyal stack. And I only recently found out about Bart Harding stack, which can be memorized in no time with some math.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice

[@johnholly5206]

Great topic, David! Martin Joyal is quoted by Gene Anderson in "The Book" (and Penguin Live Lecture) and he said the best card stack is one that you will use. So I use Si Stebbins in SHoCkeD order (I think it's easier and more logical than CHSD order) and perform Gene's 5 phase routine. Then, if you memorize the first block of 13 cards you can use some very simple math to quickly determine the location of their sister cards and/or determine how many cards were cut, etc. Memorize the first 13 instead of counting sheep tonight. Then do the math. Because my memory is not what it used to be!

[@magicorthodoxy]

THANKS JOHN !!!!

[@johnjohnson2480]

04/17/23 Hi John I was going to ask David a question, but read your reply first. I attended a Gene Anderson lecture in the early 80’s. It was early enough that he fooled every magician with his routine with the Si Stebbins stack. Wanting to shake it up a bit, I changed the order to H-C-D-S and spent hours memorizing the stack and routines. (I had not heard of the SHoCkeD order, but it appears to be the same) 😊 My questing for David, and also you, is: After using the Si Stebbins stack for about 40 years, do you think it is worth the effort to learn another stack and might it even confuse things a bit? Thank you. John

[@johnholly5206]

@@johnjohnson2480 Hi John! I no longer think it's worth the effort to learn a new stack. Stebbins allowed me to use the stack immediately and learn the card positions far more easily than other stacks. Now I have it memorized pretty well so I feel there is little bang for the buck in trying to learn an entirely new stack. Most stack tricks work with the stack we use! So you and I can spend our time on other things magical!

[@johnholly5206]

Also, check out this tutorial by Reid Ferry on memorizing Stebbins! kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4XJe2xsaKyan8U

[@niquetan]

Great episode David! For Mnemonica and Aronson, a great tool I managed to review is The Trainer Deck by Thom Parkin; they help you with visual images linked to the cards themselves.

[@magicorthodoxy]

yep, lots of other commenters agree

[@flrn84791]

To be honest, the best way is to make you "trainer deck" yourself. You can draw on the cards directly and make personal connections. I wrote all over a deck when I was learning Mnemonica 10 years ago, helped me tremedously, and I still remember most of the drawings now.

[@diegopolania595]

Which are the best tricks with stacked (Mnemonica) deck ??

[@glennrudolph]

It’s so wild to me that instruction books exists in the same age as KZbin. 😂

[@magicorthodoxy]

it is?

[@glennrudolph]

@@magicorthodoxy yes. Why would I read a book when I can just watch and rewatch a video! I am spending Christmas Eve memorizing card stacks. I got the bug bad.

[@hungvu-xc3uf]

I say, randomly shuffle a deck and memorise whatever you ended on. It would be unique to you, and it look random (because it is). Then get yourself some materials to learn tricks from other stack then apply them to yours

[@magicorthodoxy]

lol

[@KarstenJohansson]

Before I learned Mnemonica, this is exactly what I did. And moreso, I built in some of the card tricks I used to do, and learned a lot of calculations that I could whip off on a whim as long as I peak either the top or bottom card first.

[@LightDante]

The least efficient way was found by you.

[@chatcool74]

For Mnemonica you have also Apps for mobile made to train you.

[@magicorthodoxy]

yep, good reminder

[@KarstenJohansson]

@@magicorthodoxy And the Stack Watches from Peter Turner, and Juan has several books with LOTS of tricks in each one that use Mnemonica. Also, there are marked decks that hide Mnemonica in them as well. So you can get pretty far with that one stack.

[@donpodlas5546]

Hey David...do you know if there are any Indepth treatments of the Bart Harding Stack?

[@magicorthodoxy]

I do not

[@smoothplaya6696]

Always great content in your videos. Since we are halfway through the year would you be willing to make a top 5 or more tricks of the year to this point?

[@magicorthodoxy]

seems kinda early, but maybe

[@smoothplaya6696]

@@magicorthodoxy I saw one reviewer do it last year and thought it a good idea. Plus it will be easier for u when you do the best tricks at the end of the year as you add this list yo the end of the year. Just a suggestion 😄😄

[@peterh2297]

It’s the Mnemonica stack for me. I’ve used Thom Parkin’s trainer deck to get this down. Having tried other methods found this one a really solid way of learning.

[@magicorthodoxy]

Great tip!

[@liaonardo11]

I should share my stack in the inner section to change David’s mind!

[@magicorthodoxy]

oooh

[@mitchkothe9025]

I used to use Tom crosbies shadow stack. Then I used syi stebbins thsn Wayne Goodman and David Forrest introduced me to the prism stack and now that’s the stack I use to this day

[@magicorthodoxy]

cool

[@jeanmarcjemagie5870]

I use the CPAP of Patrick DESSI

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice !!!

[@MexieMex]

It's worth stressing you don't need to just pick one. I used Mnemonica and Memorandum side by side for ages, I'm currently thinking about learning the Redford stack on top as well too.

[@magicorthodoxy]

wow - awesome !!!

[@flrn84791]

Do you mean that you have memorized both of them and can go card-number, number-card, 4 of a kind etc as easily in both? Or that you use both for stack specific effects?

[@MexieMex]

@@flrn84791 I memorised both and could use either stack to jaz with. All I'd need to know was which stack was in play at the time. One of the guys I used to jam with had four stacks memorised. It's just a matter of training and practice.

[@flrn84791]

@@MexieMex Well. I tried Aronson after Mnemonica and it did not work for me, one is more than enough for me haha, but big props on making it work!!

[@MexieMex]

@@flrn84791 don't get me wrong, I'm not recommending that everybody learns multiple stacks, I'm just saying it can be done if there are features built in on two different stacks that you want to make use off or something.

[@MrFoolingyu]

Richard Osterland's Breakthrough.

[@jamesmarshall9742]

I was pleasantly surprised how Thom Parkin's system made it so easy to not just memorize the Mnemonica stack, but to fully know it the way you should when working with any memorized deck effects or routines. Using Thom’s Trainer Deck and the tips that he provides that are included in the private web page that supplements the deck, I was able to memorize the Mnemonica stack in less than 3 hours!

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice

[@carljensen5730]

There are two options: 1. A simple stack that doesn't require memorization, like Si Stebbins. or 2. Create your own stack because if you are going to put that much energy into memorizing a stack you might as well have your own. My stack enables me to do my favorite effects easily.

[@magicorthodoxy]

agreed

[@PrMura]

I do the same. It’s great to have your own mnemotechnique tips. Plus, other magicians won’t reconize it if you enjoy fooling Magicians too. ;)

[@magicofjafo]

If you want a shortcut to memorizing a stack, Thom Parkin makes a special deck - The Trainer Deck. It's super clever how it works.

[@magicorthodoxy]

yep, many other commentators agree

[@harmonslytherin]

Si Stebbins has never failed me

[@magicorthodoxy]

awesome !!!!

[@andregarre]

I used the Tamariz Mnemonica,, for me is the best, incredibles results

[@magicorthodoxy]

Great to hear!

[@davidyoung9758]

For me, the elegant genius of the Bart Harding stack is hard to top.

[@magicorthodoxy]

good suggestion

[@TheRealWinsletFan]

I'm sure hoping you say mnemonica soon, I've invested heavily in it :-)

[@magicorthodoxy]

did you watch to the end? lol

[@TheRealWinsletFan]

@@magicorthodoxy Yes I did! I was just commenting halfways through when you still hadn't mentioned it :-) I've ordered the Aronson book, thanks for the tip. Don't think it will do me any harm to have a second stack memorized, even if only to see if this creaky old brain can handle a second stack.

[@thonggialam6310]

I’m seriously learning Mnemonica 😁

[@magicorthodoxy]

lol

[@YinHoweMagic]

Argh... why didn't I think of writing the numbers at the corners!!

[@magicorthodoxy]

:D

[@michaelwald9864]

The Joyal Stack is excellent. Probably the easiest on o learn and can be found n The Six hour Memorized Deck byMartin Joyal

[@magicorthodoxy]

THANKS !!!

[@i-sarank8505]

Yeah!🥰❤️🔥

[@magicorthodoxy]

:D

[@simonwhite4281]

What would be in your Top 10 Impromptu Tricks? And, what would be in your Top 10 Selfworking Tricks?

[@magicorthodoxy]

oh wow - good question

[@Migmir1313]

I am a programmer. I would be curious about magic mobile app. I made a PWA (webpage which can be install as an app) for invisible deck, but I saw so much good app, too. I am curious, do you use this kind of magic?

[@magicorthodoxy]

do I use apps?

[@Migmir1313]

@@magicorthodoxy yes, for magick.

[@magicorthodoxy]

@@Migmir1313 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqiyaHhrlMl3mNE

[@davemunro6380]

Also the idiots guide to the aronson stack is a great way to learn and remember the stack!

[@magicorthodoxy]

by who?

[@davemunro6380]

@@magicorthodoxy Geoff Williams It's called the aronson stack for everyone (dummies crossed out and everyone written under it)

[@magicorthodoxy]

ahhh, "The Aronson Stack for Everybody by Geoff Williams"

[@randbaldwin]

Do they make left handed cards? LOL. It always throws me when seeing them pushed right to left and the indicators are in the wrong corners. How do you view a poker spread?

[@magicorthodoxy]

I hear ya

[@randbaldwin]

😄Maybe that will be your first custom deck?! Reversed! The left-handed deck from MagicO! (printed on USPCC stock of course.)

[@magicorthodoxy]

lol

[@randbaldwin]

@@magicorthodoxy take it serious. you could be reviewing it in a year.

[@IceCoachGunn]

I have seen decks that are marked in all 4 corners. This would be fine for those wishing to spread the other way.

[@Genethagenius]

I cannot recommend “The Memory Arts” by Sarah & David Trustman enough for memorizing these stacks quickly! I had Mnemonica down in under 24hrs thanks to their book. They go on sale on VanishingInc often also.

[@magicorthodoxy]

it works for some, others not so much

[@TheMightyOdin]

You made mistakes on your trainer deck. You got 38 and 49 labeled wrong.

[@magicorthodoxy]

oh no! Good thing I don't use it anymore

[@TheMightyOdin]

@@magicorthodoxy Technically if you were to have memorized it that way it wouldn’t matter. It would just be your own mnemonica stack!

[@davemunro6380]

I use the aronson stack ❤️

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice

[@XavierEMagic]

Hey David, do you have Sleightly Out of Order by Redford? If so, can you review it? Thanks

[@magicorthodoxy]

No I dont sorry

[@XavierEMagic]

@@magicorthodoxy That's OK, thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it.

[@flrn84791]

TamariZ, please, TamariZ :D

[@magicorthodoxy]

😀👍

[@balasubramanianravikumar5233]

Bart Harding is almost as easy as to learn as Stebbins but looks a lot more random.

[@magicorthodoxy]

interesting

[@youravantgarde]

It's hard enough for me to learn one and I've picked nmonica

[@magicorthodoxy]

keep at it

[@rolodirosa]

Are you lefty?

[@magicorthodoxy]

YUP

[@harryhowdidhe]

Bart Harding stack.

[@magicorthodoxy]

nice recommend !!!

[@michaelh7901]

The one I recently created

[@magicorthodoxy]

lol

[@rhook88]

How long does it take to learn the Elmsley Count? I’m struggling.

[@magicorthodoxy]

Everyone learns differently