Magna and French auto industry issue red alert; warn dangers of Gigacasting

Magna and French auto industry issue red alert; warn dangers of Gigacasting
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#magna #french #gigacasting #industry #tesla
👇Reference to the news/charts & videos used in this video:
europe.autonews.com/suppliers...
www.teslarati.com/france-feda... www.feda.fr/actualites/presse... lucagrecoita/stat... www.euroncap.com/en/results/r...
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[@RussInGA]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. We are entering the third phase.

[@alancobbin]

Couldn’t have put it better myself👍

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Fourth phase was pre Mr Elon dancin on stage……it’s over 4:29 big 3

[@4literv6]

First they laugh, then they mock you openly. Then they oppose you oftentimes violently. Before finally accepting the truth as being self evident.

[@alancobbin]

Im Sure Elon will build his next Giga Factory elsewhere👍

[@conceptuallyugly530]

😅

[@rogerpicklum1871]

Shock! Parts manufacturers don't want cars to have fewer parts!

[@niarkozzy]

@@harmony3138 It's not even from any official Govt office, but lobbying from an "automotive parts wholesalers federation".

[@elainebradley8213]

Our volkswagon rolled, looked ok, but said frame was bent and it was a write off. First of all, teslas are less likely to roll due to low centre of gravity. It would be interesting to do a true study on both frequency and expense of repairs.

[@user-zo2pc5lu5q]

​@@harmony3138in the future when ever car is a Tesla and humans aren't allowed to drive there will be no accidents for repairs to be needed :-)

[@OtisFlint]

@@harmony3138 If you take a hard enough hit to crack the main casting, the car is junk anyway so who cares about the repair cost?

[@mikafiltenborg7572]

😆👍

[@danmoyer4650]

A couple of points: a) Although Magna has very extensive operations in Europe, it is not a "European car manufacturer". Magna was founded in Canada and its world headquarters are located in Canada. b) One of Magna's largest competitors in Canada is Linemar Corporation, head office: London, Ontario Canada. Linemar is currently constructing in Welland, Ontario, a dedicated facility to house an IDRA gigapress, rumored to be in the 6 to 9 thousand ton capacity range. This is said to be the first gigapress to be installed in a facility owned by a tier 1 supplier rather than an automotive OEM. I don't know who the customer is for the output from this factory, but it's obvious that Linemar must have at least one customer nailed down or they wouldn't be making this huge investment in this plant.

[@tedmoss]

It looks like at least one supplier can read the handwriting on the wall.

[@sjsomething4936]

Cool, that’s pretty close to me, I’m intrigued by which customer it might be. The most logical are any of the big 3 automakers who all have their HQs in Detroit. Thanks for the info!

[@airdad5383]

Toyota and Honda have plants in Ontario so it could be one of them.

[@kadmow]

...and Magna have been doing large diecastings for years (4400tonne and 6000 tonne presses apparently) - ie Acuras back in 2021 (Michigan) - with others of increasing complexity ever since 2012... Suppliers like Magna do so many parts for many makers.

[@louisbarbisan8471]

Yes, I was wondering what that big building in Welland Ontario is for. Would love to see a giga press.

[@lassel1344]

What I am skeptical about giga-casting is how these cars are supposed to be repaired in the event of a minor crash and its insurance costs. Many are also not that impressed by the quality and fit of Tesla cars, to put it mildly. There are pros and cons to everything, cheaper manufacturing but will it be cheaper for the customer in the long term?

[@ElwoodEBlues]

Back in the 80s the German government was ambitious to introduce mandatory catalytic converters for new cars. That was about ten years after the introduction of the converter in the US (1975) with Japan following in 1978. A number of European countries like Austria, the Netherlands, and Sweden supported the idea, but other countries, mainly France, Italy, and Britain, opposed to it. France even threatened to introduce new economic hurdles for German goods if this legislation was to be introduced. Background was that french car manufacturers believed that the increase in production costs of about 700 DEM (roughly 400 dollars in mid-80s) would give german car buyers a motivation to choose german over french car brands. Same argumentation came from Italy and Britain. In that time german car buyers reviewed french, italian, and british car brands as cheap and easy to maintain, but also as unreliable and plagued with corrosion problems. In the end Germany raised the annual car tax while introducing new, lower taxes for cars with catalytic converters, clearing the path for its introduction.

[@jamespn]

Giga presses means lower costs, fewer workers, and loss of sales and market share for those who don’t innovate.

[@ouethojlkjn]

Someone I used to work with was chief of engineering at Austin Rover, and they made an engine that was cleaner and more efficient than one with a catalytic converter, but in the end had to reverse engineer, the engine to run with a catalytic converter, because European law forced their introduction

[@geoffhaylock6848]

The issue with catalytic converters is keeping the correct AFR to keep them happy. You cannot use lean burning engines thus saving fuel. Things may have changed since the 80's.

[@geoffhaylock6848]

@@jamespn All good for the shareholders. Only time will tell if these new techs mean lower overall running costs for the average motorists. The average motorist is not buying a new car fresh off the production line.

[@Emilthehun]

People who believe catalytic converters are good for the environment are ill informed.

[@connclissmann6514]

"Magna makes the Jaguar iPace... ". If I were Magna, I would try and keep that quiet, given the reputation of the vehicle involved.

[@FutureSystem738]

The iPace, LOL :-), the car that was called a “Tesla killer” by many people supposedly “in the know”.

[@Ajvideo009]

Magna also makes Fisker Vehicles.

[@frankcoffey]

If folks are against it that’s how you know you’re doing something right.

[@mikedsjr]

I understand your intent but the phrase is completely untrue.

[@alancobbin]

Exactly Frank 👍

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Real talk

[@alancobbin]

@@harmony3138all comes down to money at the end of the day,Tesla vehicles will be one of the best affordable vehicles on the planet,if the French want to pay considerably more money to prop up there auto industry until the end that’s there choice,I guess one thing they won’t be laughing while it happens,seems to be recurring factor with the french🤷‍♂️

[@uup116]

@@mikedsjr you are mistaken...Example: Trump has driven people to the side of madness opposing his simple logic.

[@fifthager]

I remember a Porsche project from the early 1970s, government-sponsored I believe, to engineer a car that would last for at least 20 years and at the end of its life be readily recyclable. It was intended to be refurbishable: interiors as well as the usual mechanical wear parts. Key to the recycling element was aluminium bodywork and structure, and use of aluminium cabling etc. would allow most of it to be crushed and melted down after stripping off the drivetrain. The theory was that aluminium, although more costly to build with, is ultimately no more costly because of its recycle value. Maybe Tesla is doing something that the industry, notably Daimler-Benz, scoffed at in the last century.

[@MJMC56]

I was told in the 70s that VW (I think) experimented with wrought iron to make cars from as it doesn't rust and is very strong. Maybe a bit heavy though :)

[@PeterWilliamson-nn9et]

The Japanese are saying 20 years is that all?

[@tedmoss]

Tesla is just using ideas that have been around for a while and others were to short sighted to do.

[@spankeyfish]

I wonder if the eventual result of that Porsche project was the Audi A2.

[@malcolmrickarby2313]

It takes a great amount of confidence in the volume of the model being produced to invest in gigapress castings. Planning for a million plus cars is a gamble unless you have an edge over the competition. 😊

[@alexissynodinos2775]

The French enginer Jean Albert Grégoire (1899-1992) presented the World first moulded car in aluminium in 1937. He also created a special cast aluminium familly to improve the process. Different cars like the Dina Panhard and later the Hotchkiss Gregoire was produced with giga casting, but using gravity sand casting and not high pressure aluminium press. It was already more rigid, more light, but limited to low volume because at this time. So this concept is French and very old. Elon Musk is absolutly right to go in this direction. Repair is not a problem using tooling and also welding. Less parts is nearly always better and cheaper for manufacturing process.

[@nas4apps]

Great story!!!

[@MichaelHBallard]

Wow EVERYthing old is new again!!

[@jimgraham6722]

A good way to fix cracking in castings is with boron fibre patches. They are widely used in the aviation industry.

[@blameyourself4489]

Gigapressing is not good. By impact you need to get rid of your energy to survive. You can't do that with a are in one piece. A kind of like by Formula 1.

[@sjsomething4936]

Sam, Magna was founded in Canada, by Austrian-born gentleman named Frank Stronach who left high school to apprentice as a tool and die maker. Magna is now a global leader in the auto parts industry. However, it has been a huge manufacturer of auto parts for decades, I saw a talk by Frank at uni where he was giving a lecture on business. I’m not surprised to hear them claim that they’re throwing shade at the large die-casting process, it’s probably going at the heart of their business although honestly I always thought they were more doing plastic trim pieces and headlight assemblies etc. If Frank were still running the company he would embrace the newer tech, but not sure about who’s running the show now. THere was a bitter feud between Frank and his daughter at one point over ownership and direction of the company, I don’t see the name Stronach on any of the executive officers listed nowadays for Magna. If they do adopt large die-casting processes, they could call it Magnacasting 😂 The nonsense spewed by Fiat / Renault can be ignored, but the argument about right to repair is kinda an interesting angle. Europe and (very slowly) the US are moving to a legal framework that requires companies to produce goods that are capable of being repaired by consumers or a non-manufacturer repair facility. IE new cell phones will have to be capable of being disassembled by someone other than Samsung, Apple etc.

[@leiflillandt1488]

I also noticed how Sam didn't call Magna a Canadian company. In Europe/Austria, I think, also know as Magna-Steyr. They also make the transfer cases for BMW and Mercedes. Transfer case makes the all wheel drive. In BEVs all wheel drive is created by an electric motor on each axle! Then, I guess, if you use gigacasting you have to make fewer different models, and larger amount of each model. Many years ago I was involved in a small shop and we "transformed" Volvo Sedans to Wagons! Just by using the front end from one car and welded it to a rear end of another car that had a damaged front end. Say things that aren't possible if you have enough skills!?

[@TurdFergusen]

@@respect_expert5511 you must have insurance data that nobody else has

[@kylekleman]

Magna makes a ton of stampings for automotive companies. I think that’s why they are worried. The number of stampings needed per car is going to dramatically decline.

[@sjsomething4936]

@@kylekleman ah thanks for that, I kinda figured they must have been manufacturing those parts too. Given that they’re producing not only the Jag mentioned but also the Fisker EV models, they’d better get on the large scale die-casting bandwagon right quick or they’ll be unable to make the cars profitably. I know Magna had considered making their own entire vehicle at one time, I’m guessing having multiple existing customers just give them the production requirements for an entire vehicle allowed them to do effectively the same thing at lower risk to see how things went. I’m still amazed it’s taken this long for the major manufacturers to realize how much of an improvement the huge die-cast technology is and how it will impact the speed of production, and that they simply couldn’t afford not to be doing it.

[@FloydThePink]

@@leiflillandt1488 Magna-Steyr, a Canadian company, made my German BMW Z4 in Austria and shipped it to Oregon USA. I would have zero problem buying a mega or giga cast Hot Wheels roadster replacement.

[@billbell3737]

Due to the high upfront cost Gigacasting is most advantageous when you are making a few high volume models. France is focused on lots of lower volume models. Gigacasting is just too expensive in use in this model.

[@Samsson83]

Exactly, same for Magna.

[@tedmoss]

This is indeed a short view of the situation, in time it will all be cheaper. Or some companies will be out of business.

[@nguyenhanh9479]

then make less model and focus on quality models, what is so hard about that 😂😂😂

[@royh6526]

This was exactly the point that I was going to make. It's not for everybody.

[@ouethojlkjn]

I don’t understand what you mean by a few high-volume models?

[@wartable]

If gigacasting is so terrible then they should be happy…they will produce better cars with the traditional methods

[@davehoder3713]

I'm still in agreement with those guys that the giga castings will be difficult, if not impossible to repair. I don't see how these would crumple and pull back into shape. Attempting to cut off and re-weld for example a wheel well would result in an unsound joint (without seeing the repair part and how they figured the joint would work). I still think they need to be made as 3 easily replaceable parts instead of one big casting. I guess we really need to see actual repair data by honest body shops, but that's my former collision tech opinion.

[@tedmoss]

Times change.

[@kadmow]

- people claim things all the time - click... the believers Dunning-Kruger reinforced. (time will tell - the "supply pieces of the casting" seems very suspiciously like total BS.)

[@jimgraham6722]

It's best to write off heavily damaged vehicles.

[@bad406camaro]

Same was said for Unibodies and bonded panels. Yet as a industry we now repair everything from a unibody Pinto from the 1970`s to Modern jets with large monolithic composites structures manufactured in both aluminum and fiber. The repair argument did not work in the 1950`s with unibodies and will not work with modern Manufacturing processes.

[@endi4real]

We appreciate all that you do, keep it up please.

[@tomooo2637]

Tesla creates cut out regions on there mega casting - so they can be repaired. You did note this , but just repeating it.

[@tomooo2637]

@@CS-gg5hx yes

[@zenster1097]

For 1.0. But the 2.0 version coming this will be an issue.

[@rgeraldalexander4278]

Bingo! Tesla insurance has a huge opportunity here to disrupt yet another industry. Good vid Sam.

[@MrVaticanRag]

"Fatigue Life" in any casting, is the most difficult design factor to be taken fully into account. Especially components that may be subject to full or even partial bending stress reversal cycles (eg. compressive to tensile, for example the section connecting front axial loads to body frame during off-road racing), while castings have very little capacity beyond their elastic limit having very little ductility...

[@anastigmatix4119]

I imagine a GC is significantly stronger than its predecessor such that forgeddaboudit . . .

[@jimgraham6722]

Chassis that flex are bad news

Everything that doesn't flex would break immediately, don't you think?

[@jimgraham6722]

@ Where needed you build flex points into the structure. Most of the movement is absorbed by the vehicle suspension.

@@jimgraham6722 Agree, just saying as cars are made from metal (and are pretty long) no matter how you design it, it will flex certain amount, and it's not bad. And if you go to extreme to make car flex as little as possible you will end with something like a tank :)

[@kosminuskosminus6668]

Little corection : RENAULT ZOE has ZERO STARS EURO NCAP security level ..... lol is a real driving coffin :)))

[@jftech11]

For folks who didn't know, the forgotten EV, the California compliance car known as the Ford Focus Electric, had it's drive train made by Magna International. That's what I recall.

[@pauldorn4422]

I recently bought a new Model Y and people need to know the facts, it is a wonderful car and a joy to drive but there are some negatives , one being the high cost of insurance and because of the complex manufacturing methods (gigs casting) they have very high cost of repairs and the unwillingness of repair shops to work on them. Another issue is tires, these cars require expensive tires and seem the wear the tires out quickly. Another issue is the customer-dealer relationship might not be what it should when you buy a car at these prices.

[@stevehayward1854]

'First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they attack you. Then you win.' - Mohandas Gandhi

[@user-nf4st5kn6l]

❤❤❤

[@generalvonclausewitz5881]

We in, The Netherlands, had the same with pulse fishing, a new way of fishing that used half the diesel and protected the sea floor. It was developed with the likes as Green Peace. Because French fishers didn't invest in the new technology they lost market share. Instead of adapting, their politicians and so called "French green ngo's " lobbied in Brussels to have it banned. With false claims the French were success full and now it's forbidden :/

[@iainmrodgers9991]

The French are experts at bureaucracy.

[@uup116]

The French defeated the Dutch...the shame.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@uup116 Sometimes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs

[@ttkddry]

​@@jamesvandamme7786that is a Flemish victory over the French, no Dutch involved....

[@nixulescu9399]

yeah that's why they fight now, they have a zoe at the price of a tesla (sure I compare eu with us prices) but still stands, the eu are a bunch of idiots every time they ignore engineering and go only for 'feel,need,populus' sentiment

[@dghtr79_36]

problem with those large castings is that they save money only for the original builder, it saves nothing for the consumer, quite the opposite, whenever there is an accident, and that thing is damaged, insurance (with recommendation from the original designer) will recommend scrapping the whole thing, because I doubt they'll certify al welded repairs on them, so repairs will be VERY expensive, which will pull the insurance along with it, automaker doesn't care, they save money on building it and now they'll cash in on the replacement, insurance doesn't care, people lease everything anyway, and they'll have to buy the insurance, so of course "they" will say it is "makes sense", but for a customer - it really, REALLY doesn't!

[@MrkBO8]

Expect a significant insurance premium for cast body structures and structural batteries, cars will be written off left right and center to protect the environment.

[@TurdFergusen]

I bet you believed when they said giga berlin had elevated emergency calls also

[@whatdoesnt]

Have you been to an auto auction lately? In the US, I’ve seen all brands, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, you name it with minimal damage being written off as a total loss. Parts on every car are so expensive now this is becoming common practice. Pretty much as soon as the frame is damaged or bent, they write off the whole car. Repair shops no longer want to accept responsibility or liability for fixing and repairing the frame of the car, and insurance companies do not want to pay the exorbitant prices to have this type of work done.

[@righteousmammon9011]

My wife and I both have teslas in Florida and the insurance is the same cost within 10 dollars a month for our previous cars

[@kevinpeterman7127]

I don't believe you can fix giga cast parts by welding or mechanical fastening the way you can with standard manufacturing methods today. My personal experience has backed thus up. What looks like a total loss can be bent, hammered, welded and screwed back together. EVs Wil probably needed structural battery packs to save weight among other things but, that should not mean the rest of the car must also be impossible to be fix.

[@John-FourteenSix]

Excellent topic Mr Viking. Manufacturers ALWAYS want to make things faster, cheaper and better, it’s THE mantra that keeps them in business. Reduced hrs (TAKT time) remove wasted effort, reduce parts count and improve quality. The added benefit of these massive castings is the reduced dissimilar materials. When it’s due for recycling, separating dissimilar metals is a huge cost and so incorporating it beforehand is surely world class! What an opportunity. When we produce a car scrap segregation will be incorporated into production processes, however at end of life in an end to end process that includes disposal of a product is where the world of manufacturing needs to go. We need to recycle and recover these materials (and batteries that can be repurposed is avoiding digging the stuff up in the first place. The Japanese were very successful at this with the world beating Toyota Production System (TPS) Fast becoming ‘Tesla Production System’. Does it meet or exceed their own EU safety regulations? Yes. Sounds like a changing of the guard to me.

[@grasonicus]

You know, of course, that leads to fewer blue-collar jobs in industry. And basic workers make up the largest segment of voters. And politicians want to keep their seats in parliament, even if they have to bankrupt the country to do so. So, they'll do anything to keep the voting cattle happy, like supporting inefficient organisations employing many people. Here in Australia, they pumped billions into the car industry until even a blind man could see it was not working.

[@geoffhaylock6848]

@@grasonicus Are we not heading to a population reduction anyway?

[@grasonicus]

@@geoffhaylock6848 The reduction will be most marked among those of higher intelligence and education, not among the blue-collar people. The less intelligent always had a higher birth rate than the intelligent, but a higher child mortality rate kept their numbers in check centuries ago. Now, their children nearly always survive to reach adulthood. And their jobs are disappearing. Keep in mind we're working with populations here, not individuals, so, we're dealing with statistics.

[@DSP16569]

I see the Problem that in case of a accident with a "classic" build car (e.g. front accident) you vuy new front parts and repair it. With a gigapress build car the front part is the whole car - so you have to buy a new car.

[@geoffhaylock6848]

@@DSP16569 Repair sections will have to be available or insurance is going to be extremely expensive. Could be a trick by Tesla. Charge a fortune for replacement sub sections, making repairs expensive. Then when insurance companies have to charge high premiums start selling your own cheaper insurance...... oh wait......

[@HitBit_Gaming]

The problem I see with this is when one of these casted parts needs to be replaced over time. I drive an 19 year old Peugeot 206cc and I have no problems at all finding aftermarket parts or second hand parts in case something breaks and it is easy enough to replace some parts myself with some simple tools. If one of these cars with gigacasted parts even get into a small accident where one or more of these parts break I think the price to replace those parts will be way to expensive and your car will be totalled, and guess what will happen to insurance prices if that will be normal in the future. And I think it will also be way to expensive for the companies producing aftermarket gigacasted parts, because each brand and model will probably use their own designed parts making your car obsolete as soon as the newer model is build on the assembly line.

[@jimgraham6722]

Boron fibre patching to repair castings.

[@unicornadrian1358]

One way that Tesla could overcome the lack of repairability is to insure their own vehicles. In the event of a write off, replace the vehicle then put all the non damaged parts of the first car into a new chassis and sell them as refurbished. This would make a very affordable option for people looking to make the switch.

[@PaulG.x]

No , because the ultimate cost of insurance is paid by the owner no matter who the insurer is - unless ,of course Tesla subsidises the insurance. I can't see musk doing that with all his money loosing fork ups to pay for.

[@kennythemeat]

since new cars use a lot of subscription based stuff and also a lot of technology which is locked behind manufacturerlocks the "used car market" is completely bad. prices went up and "refurbished and manufacturer checked cars" are expensive anyway. this thing would get you only higher prices without the things that could make it worth it.

[@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt]

Tesla now offers cheaper insurance in US.

[@stevegorkowski3246]

The issue I see with one part for the front of the car is the material is brittle. In a crash you break off a corner of a casting will the total casting be declared bad and in most cases scraps the car? Only time will tell. Metal frame cars can be bent back on a jig so you can fix the car. The Tesla battery packs are designed to be ground up to be recycled but very few places do this. Many junk yards will not take a car that has batteries. If you ever took a Tesla pack apart removing the cells was very hard and filled with a foam that has very little value. Products need to be designed to be repaired and recycled. We have to move away from throwing away products and made from toxic materials. Tesla must do more than cost reduce and offer parts for sale so third party shops can repair the car.

[@tellyboy17]

To be fair: Tesla is pretty cavalier about repair cost quoting a $20K new battery pack to fix a broken off nipple for the cooling system. Also the packs are internally not serviceable.

[@tedmoss]

Who said? do you believe everything anyone says? Of course there are ways to repair anything. Is it worth it? Does it operate in an acceptably safe way? Whose dime? Do you take the risk or does someone else? etc.

[@tellyboy17]

It's a well known fact that Tesla packs are sealed shut and the newest version filled up with some sort of goo that makes even more sure nobody repleces individual cells as well as individual modules. It's all designed to be thrown away if just one of the countless parts it consists of fails which bodes bad for future residual value of out of battery warranty Tesla's. Those basically have no value. About those cracked cooling system connectors: there are third parties that replace them but Tesla won't touch them. @@tedmoss

[@bengrillet]

Ironic that, if I'm not mistaken, Citroen produced the first mass-produced monocoque chassis with the C15 "Traction Avant" (it was also the first front drive, hence the name) plus many other firsts - especially in the DS. They used to be world leading innovators. Sad that they are now reduced to this bleating from the sidelines. Is it poor management, or union intransigence, or both?

[@lengould9262]

There's an industry (not large but loud) of auto repairers who specialize in buying "crash writeoff" cars, 'repairing' them so they LOOK fine, and selling them to you as if never bent. That's who hates the one-piece castings. Avoid their "product" like the plague, dangerous and unreliable.

[@Comm0ut]

Do you have any citations for that since they're "loud"? Sounds more like unions howling about reduced labor. Castings can be welded (properly) and modern collision repair has found ways to join materials like (NHTSA tested) adhesives which are also used in new vehicle construction.

[@ohger1]

In the U.S. at least, salvage vehicles can be bought at auction, rebuilt, and assigned a rebuilt title IF the car is safely repaired and passes inspection. Anyone doing unsafe work is personally liable if substandard work is intentional. Most cars with rebuilt titles are virtually indistinguishable from any other car. Personally, I would avoid flood salvage cars over collision salvage cars.

[@tedmoss]

@@ohger1 You forget; "You don't know what you don't know".

[@alanlight7740]

I had a Ford that had been rebuilt from two different cars. One of the best vehicles I ever owned. Nothing wrong with a rebuilt car IF it was done right.

[@ouethojlkjn]

In the UK, the practice of getting the front of one car and the back of another is known as a cut and shut. You trim the two until they more or less fit together and weld what’s left. A very simple version of a giga, casting much cheaper than building the whole thing from scratch which is why they do it.

[@ericjiang2007]

Totally agree. They cannot compete so try to find all kinds of excuses. Embarrassing indeed.

[@4literv6]

The last desperate flailing while dying gasps of an outmoded breed of businesses. Can't wait to bury em no mourning allowed&move on into a cleaner, cooler much quieter future of not burning stuff and calling it business as usual.👍🏻😎

[@dennislyons3095]

I do think you may be wrong about the insurance aspect of these mega castings & repairs. What we've seen anecdotes of how much repairs which would have been very simple on older generation cars are now leading to total loss by insurance due to the cost of repair vs residual value of the repaired cars. If that becomes a trend, the cost of insurance could skyrocket for these vehicles. Repairability at reasonable expense & time is the key to the insurance game.

[@micumatrix]

No, it’s true. It was an issue already raised few years in Europe by insurances AFTER having to pay the prices for damaged and hybrid cars. Just look here on yt how much it costs to repair a damaged battery. Some just burn everything down. Companies like Hertz, Sixt or carsharing companies are probably paying the price.

[@FlorestanTrement]

One thing is, gigacastings lower the price only on very high volume cars; there are quite a few relatively low volume cars being produced in Europe. These brands should be closed, but Stellantis hoard them for some reason. I would suppose Magma, by nature, makes a lot of these low volumes vehicles, meaning they couldn't easily make use of gigacastings.

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

That's a pretty interesting thought!

[@tedmoss]

So you are saying there are no more brilliant engineers in the world except Elon? (Besides myself I mean).

[@danharold3087]

We may see a company like Magna produce a single cast car chassis that many others build cars on.

[@kenoliver8913]

Having a portfolio of "quirky" low volume brands to fill niches that your volume brands can't is actually good strategy for a large auto group. After the dust settles over the next decade (which settling will involve the demise of some current corporations) or so I think the world auto industry will revert to a few large groups, each with that sort of strategy. So long run you can see volume brands using gigacasting coexisting with a plethora of more bespoke marques. The marketing logic will reassert itself.

[@FlorestanTrement]

@@tedmoss These are your words, not mine; It is dishonest to pretend they are mine.

[@jetdigital]

As a CAD/CAM designer way back in the 90s i designed molds plastic metal and pressed forged from cars to helicopters. Worked in materials you dont know about yet. We hated uni body. F1 used segments but tubed frames. Stainless seamless tubing. Castings havevseams and impurities. Get out the zyglow. Or buy a gigahertz 3D scanner check for pockets. Real hard to get the flow. Dont see any pre heaters there. Not good. Trust me we tried it when we had WWII cash. Rockets were better than today. Seriously. I designed CAD molds for die casting from plastics to metals. Gigacasting is the same as the matchbox casting. The problem is its rigid and no flex and will crack. Garanteed. We forged our parts so the grain flows properly. They you use thinner parts. Lighter. Plus repairs will be welded as long as the metal isnt white metal. I think it will be alloy. Hard to recycle. If you cant race it is crap. Timeto start a test channel and be the tester out of them. If I cant break it no one can. I'll find out.

[@FlorinArjocu]

Some people here are saying about some "special" alluminium alloy made by Tesla. Could something like that have changed the outcome? I have no idea what they are talking about, when I hear Musk talking I hear "buls**t" half of the time he speaks.

[@chrisborns5972]

My snowmobile is built with 2 large casting and it was cheap and easy to replace when my brother hit a tree. The final product was as good as new and far better than straightening conventional structural elements. Gigacast will be the same.

[@chris27gea58]

The companies making gigacasting machines are Italian and Swiss. I think that is European innovation right there. The Magna official doesn't know what he is talking about. Automaking is a capital intensive activity. Why on earth would anyone fear it becoming even more capital intensive if what that leads to is more efficient manufacturing, more complete recycling and less expensive cars when those cars are turned out in high volumes. In any case, the results are already in. When manufacturers make cars using large cast sections those cars are lighter, safer and more economical to manufacture.

[@tedmoss]

You left out the Chinese.

[@chris27gea58]

@@tedmoss The point was to show the absurdly contradictory nature of what the Magna executive was saying. While IDRA and Bühler are critical suppliers of robotic manufacturing tools to European industries Magna holds a lesser significance. Magna is an engineering company that has managed to exploit shortcomings in the in-house engineering capabilities and capacity planning by European automakers to insinuate itself into the automaking club. The smart way that Magna has navigated its rise has garnered attention but the significance of that rise can be easily overstated. Magna rise comes alongside yawning gaps opening up elsewhere in the classical European vehicle production chain. Magna is making cars (for other automakers) because those automakers can't get their act together. That intermediate point between a clean sheet design and a shiny new vehicle - the production engineering - seems to have been declared to be either too hard, too time consuming or too expensive by some automakers for certain automaking projects. While the impact of IDRA and Buhler is revolutionary for the process of automobile manufacturing itself, the impact of Magna is more about whether cars in future will roll off classical production lines (owned by the companies that design the cars) or the production lines of specialised contract manufacturers (with a command of the relevant production engineering knowledge that is required to successfully fulfil that role). So, IDRA and Buhler are really important whereas Magna isn't that important - vehical production engineering knowledge it just moving to where Magna is and away from where it has classically been. I wouldn't be overly influenced by what Magna's executives have to say about this or that engineering question. They aren't infallible or the only party you should be listening to. So, yes, China’s LK Group is a major player in robotic gigacasting machines, too, (in fact it is now the parent company of IDRA) but that was irrelevant to the point that I was making.

[@alanlight7740]

Italian and Swiss are not French, and the French have a very high opinion of themselves. The French think themselves the center of the world even while most of the world forgets that France exists. And the French resist capital intensive efficiency because they believe that labor is the source of prosperity, at least for the influential minority who get the make-work jobs that are subsidized by French taxpayers, consumers by way of higher prices, and some of the former French colonies through French control of their money supply.

[@kadmow]

@@tedmoss - who have owned IDRA since 2008 (?? - I think, or was it 2012 settlement ??) - transfer of abilities in the manufacturing space (including extreme heavy engineering) to China continues.

[@chris27gea58]

@@alanlight7740 Don't take everything that Sam says as unalloyed truth. Check the statements by the various parties yourself. I know of no special bond between the French government and Magna (which is based mainly in Germany, I believe). Sam's report lacked clarity - who said what?

[@ctuna2011]

Sandy Munro sure likes the giga castings . He was doing a demo the other day hitting frames and giga castings with a sledge hammer. I was impressed with the way the Giga castings held up. More ludites afraid of loosing there jobs and this will reduce jobs .

[@JS-te2vj]

I mean, the positive effects of megacasts will show in the performance, chassis rigidity, and most of all price. You can throw shade all you like, but........ customers will notice the difference

[@BrandonLPitts]

Im a Tesla Bull but honestly I truly never thought about the Insurance side of Giga Castings. This adds more complexity to things

[@SimonWebbRCandModellingChannel]

Have you made a video about the colossal depreciation of electric cars Sam?

[@adamdukat3693]

For 22 years I did work for MMAL in Adelaide. Blue collar, many positions. Can only say that You are spot on Sammy! Not much more to add to it! Politicians didn't want us to have the car industry -- so? we've lost our jobs! I took the bus afterwards. Life ain't easy! Greetings Sam!

[@grasonicus]

Australia has huge reserves of raw materials, allowing them to have the highest minimum wage in the world. Raw materials also indirectly fill the government's coffers, allowing them to buy votes by legislating employee entitlements--a guaranteed vote-getter, but also an industry killer. Workers can't think that far. Countries with smaller populations, like Slovenia, build far more cars than Australia ever build. Switzerland, population 8.7 million, exports aircraft to Australia. Conditions in Australia are not right to have any industry except to supply what cannot be imported. Even simple foods in the supermarket are imported.

[@malcolmduncan3047]

As an Australian taxpayer I didn't want to have a car industry either! Because every Aussie car that drove out of the factory cost taxpayers $2500 in subsidy...I'm glad I don't have to contribute to that anymore.

[@adamdukat3693]

I did always know about subsidies. The diff now is that our subsidies are going overseas. To China in my case -- and I'm not happy either. @@malcolmduncan3047

[@MikeBaxterABC]

10:10 I LOVE used trucks!! .. I needed to rent a BIG Cube Van, The cost was going to be astronomical. So I just bought oe a 1994 Chevy Step Van (for $8000 .. TALK ABOUT parts, it has no less than 16,000 Aluminum rivets holding it together :) .. Safety is another matter, It's GVW is 12,000 pounds, so just about anything you run into will get the worst of the impact :)

[@devastatn]

Rivian has the truck where the bed is part of the chassis. It's a bare minimum of $25,000 if you fix it yourself. If rivian fixes it, it's $40,000. On any other pickup truck, you take a few bolts out and undue the wiring harness and replace it. That's scary for the working class that uses trucks as a truck.

[@amigajoe]

I'll be very curious to see after a couple years what the overview / opinion of how Gigacasting has impacted repair costs, and insurance costs for Tesla owners.

[@mrm1885]

Insurance goes up. Obviously the cars are becoming disposable products. They are becomeing to complicated and expensive to repair. You just replace with a new car.

[@williamr.kirkland6317]

Anytime we can improve manufacturing and maintain safety for the consumer all the better no matter the impact on employment ratios.

[@tedmoss]

Don't rock the boat!

[@StuartConsulting]

Complaining about your competition using Giga Casting : you’ve made the great Nokia / Blackberry analogy to becoming swamped by smartphones several times. It goes like this 1. shock and disbelief. 2. denial. 3. guilt. 4. anger and bargaining. 5. depression, reflection. 6. reconsider 7. acceptance.

[@JoePolaris]

It seems IDRA’s order book is booked with orders for next 18+ months from Tesla , and the competition is trying to join the castings club, admittedly late.

[@yelnatsch517]

Trying to address this at face value is naive. Don’t ever trust what these people say at face value. The threat is to their union workers and that’s all they care about.

[@tedmoss]

Or you could just follow the money.

[@spankeyfish]

The risk with gigacastings is the same for castings in general; the thinner the walls and the more complex the shape is, the more likely you are to experience defects like voids and cracks.

[@Martin_919]

The thing with these castings is, they are prone to fatigue if ( now comes the important part) they are not designed well....same goes for corrosion, you just have to know what you do. And off course you can't really repare them in case of a crash....which would be a problem if the others were repareble.... which they really aren't anyway 😂 I wasn't a big fan in the beginning since I thought doing it right the first time might be a issue, but they seem to have hired the right engineers for the task and it shows.

[@BobY-zc9ex]

Right on. If you can't compete you left behind.

[@kirkellis4329]

Injection molded plastics presses are less costly and more available than aluminum die casting machines like the IDRA gigacasting equipment. I am wondering what the weight and cost difference would be in materials to make the entire underbody out of GFRC strong enough to be the chassis of a vehicle, possibly with some steel members overmolded where needed for stiffness. I think Sandy Monroe showed an example of how the battery pack for the first EV, GM's EV1, was GFRC and was stronger and lighter than the aluminum battery pack boxes being used now by VW. GFRC is even more resistant to rust and corrosion than aluminum or SS, so it seems like a good solution if the cost was not prohibitive. Differences in thermal expansion rates might make mating to other materials difficult, but with a body-on-frame approach rather than unibody, that seems solvable.

[@tedmoss]

That's not heading toward the ultimate car; one part.

[@jimgraham6722]

Maybe, with EVs heat no longer a problem so plastic now possible.

[@oliviertlv]

Always when cones improvement and innovation, there are criticisms and negativities from people that feel I secure in there business or confort zone being Shaked !

[@Voxabonable]

I had a Citroen GS many years ago. 47 bolts and screws just to take the front bumper off. So much fun.

[@stewartread4235]

I've worked on and fixed 3,500 tonne plastic injection mould machines in the 90's and 00's but the gigapress is so futuristic it's insane..!

[@bearcubdaycare]

Aren't engines cast? Do they fret about it, and demand that engines be made from lots of bits welded together, so that they can be replaced piecemeal? This is really, really bizarre. Most arguments or concerns I hear are flimsy, but I honestly didn't expect them to go this far. (Sandy Munro's sledgehammer video is worth watching regarding casting durability.)

[@cedriclynch]

For about 30 years there have been motorcycle frames made from a small number of large aluminium alloy castings welded together, or a combination of castings and extrusions.

[@JoeyBlogs007]

What about Terra Casting? Are they against that also ?

[@gregguerndt2043]

Thanks for your work we think a lot alike I so agree everything

[@OldSloGuy]

If you talk to a tow truck operator, you will find out that only rarely is a car with deployed air bags not totaled. These occasions are very new cars with only the driver's bag deployed. Its so rarely done that it is hard to find someone that can do it. The liability for messing up a safety system commands a very high insurance premium which has to be passed on to the customer. So, the labor charge is mind blowing.

[@arubaga]

Magna has organized France into defeat - no Gigafactory there 😅

[@alexcastas8405]

Everytime i see a giga caster in action, i kinda think why it hadn't been done more years ago ... i guess its a technology step change thing. Thankfully, its the future and the tech will only get better and more widely adopted.

[@geoffhaylock6848]

Seems 1937 France was the earliest.

[@anisotropicplus]

Good video! Very informative. Thanks.

[@johnreese3762]

I agree with you Sam!

[@StormBringer-]

Yes certainly sounds like sour grapes

[@deanrhodenizer938]

Astounding report. I expect that the insurance industry will eventually demonstrate which vehicles cost less to repair. Another factor which may be distorting things in Tesla's favour is that Tesla safety system are so effective that it may be reducing the need for Teslas to be repaired as they simply avoid accidents in the first place. I am starting to understand why Alexandra Metz is so negative about the business climate in France.

[@ohger1]

The insurance industry keeps a ridiculous amount of statistics, and while Tesla safety systems may prevent many accidents, the cost to repair/replace them must be exponentially higher than any accident avoidance they may offer. Now, if the numbers are wrong or if the insurance industry is ignoring them, then other insurance carriers will arise and take the profits. Time (and stats) will tell.

[@Tschacki_Quacki]

@@ohger1 The body shops are the ones who are taking the big chunk of the profit in this chain. They are the ones charging the insurance companies ludicrous prices and since there are only so few certified body shops, they don't have to compete with each other. On the other hand, the body shops need a lot of profit to invest in expansion. The one in my area recently opened a whole new place on the other side of the town. Setting up a whole new car repair shop must cost a fortune.

[@deanrhodenizer938]

@@ohger1 Agreed. Tesla is providing insurance to a significant part of its own customer base in the US and is doing so through independently operated body shops. If they are charging lower rates (which they are based on driver stats) and not losing money, that suggests that repair costs are either less costly of far less frequently required.

[@danharold3087]

@@ohger1 In countries where insurance companies pay for injury ***** POSSIBLE US CONTENT WARNING ****** insurance companies pay out more for injury than they do for fixing or replacing cars. A single head injury can run into millions. There is quote out there saying Tesla drivers have X% fewer accidents and Y% fewer injuries when they do crash. The work Tesla puts into to continual improve the safety of their cars is paying dividends.

[@royh6526]

@@ohger1 Insurance companies haven't yet collected enough statistics to be confident, so they charge high just in case.

[@garyclack3807]

That’s like calling a foul ball when somebody hits a home run

[@ColinWatters]

My concern is the impact on repair costs and therefore insurance costs which are already high.

[@johnnyv5995]

Giga casting = 1 piece. Magna = Auto Parts Manufacturer.

[@adr2t]

Uh nooo. Thats not whats happening at all really. The idea is that China subs 1/5 of their car cost from software to giga - and China is producing shooty work because of it. Tesla cars do not randomly start setting on fire unlike BYD and others that do catch on fire. Thats the problem. Gigacasting is fine for the most part, but it does come with repair cost changes - aka people do know the pros and cons and just making sure that we're not going down a route that will make cars just a "replace when broken" technology.

[@aomurdock]

Why not replace when broken when the car can simply recycle back to the manufacturing process? Hopefully this will be a major possibility for not just car manufacturers but other mass produced products! Image your old junker gets totaled and before you know it is returned to you a brand new recycled car! One can only wish.

[@adr2t]

@@aomurdock Only about 80-85% of a car can be recycle - leaving around 15-20% that would more than likely go to a dump - mainly plastics and hard to recycle parts. Thats assumes we can recycle the batteries - something I havent "seen" done in "scale" just yet (hopeful though). I assume you mean to do this to get some of your money back? Maybe, but no one will give you a ton of cash back for it.

[@chrisborns5972]

This is Magna's Dan O'dud moment.

[@robrider838]

Bang on

[@Weezedog]

Giga castings are great for the mfg, terrible for the consumer. The castings are not easily repairable, which means cars with huge castings will be totaled for more minor accidents instead of being repaired. This will cost the consumer in higher insurance premiums and vehicle replacement costs.

[@jrb_sland]

You may be right; you may be wrong. I'll wait to see what the insurance companies' statistics say about this issue in a few years. In a truly competitive business environment, the companies which get it right will prosper, while their competitors will go to the wall. What actual real-world data can you offer today in support of your hypothesis?

[@williamgrunzweig571]

​@@harmony3138trolling 😂😂😂

[@ohger1]

That is pure speculation at this point. It's just as likely that an impact severe enough to damage a gigacasting would likely total any car. We'll know a lot more in two years.

[@tedmoss]

@@harmony3138 Everything you do has consequences, no one's fooling me. Ways to fix things will always be worked out, saying you can't is just a way to take more than your share of the pie. Same with insurance cos. they want to make life easy for themselves and harder for others, every segment is vying for more than their share seeing an opportunity opened by Tesla.

[@sjsomething4936]

@@jrb_sland agreed. For one thing, insurance companies aren’t stupid either, people who are buying Teslas are often a bit wealthier than others, maybe they can charge a bit of a premium for the coverage. Also, it’s entirely possible that higher insurance cost is strictly due to the cost of any other, non-gigacasted parts. I’m just speculating on that last bit, but it’s entirely possible. And truthfully auto manufacturers have a vested interest in making the car cheaper to produce but more expensive to repair, it nets them more profits on both ends. The fact that Tesla doesn’t really have dealers with repair facilities means repair profits also go to the corporate coffers instead of the dealership shops, whereas Toyota, GM, Hyundai etc.etc. all have a dealership network that they have to share repair profits with. Not directly by taking a cut, but I’m sure the corporate part of all of them make a profit from the replacement parts sold. Probably one of the reasons that Tesla was so against Rich Rebuilds, he was demonstrating through his persistence that it was possible to repair a Tesla even with strong pushback from the manufacturer.

[@PomPom-vf9ko]

Of course insurance will be £5k with a giga pressed vehicle. When you damage a giga pressed car, your own or others, it must be scrapped.

[@davidmarkmann6098]

No

[@hypnotechno]

Thank you Sam for calling out these communists

[@og4372]

A dent on a Rivian quarter panel is very expensive to fix. Because it is tied into the roof of the cab. A bed replacement will cost those owners up to 40k if the metal has to be replaced.

[@jamespink4202]

French automakers are all moving toward using a modern, stiff, croissant mix, baked at 220c for 6 to 8 minutes for all chassis construction. Its far stronger than the old flexy 2CV "bagguette" construction and way faster and stronger than traditional sourdough construction Peugeot used throught the '70s & 80s.

[@docsnider8926]

What you don’t seem to grasp is that gigacasting is one of the ways to build a car. It is widely applied for EVs, because of less weight compared to steel. If batteries become less heavy other manufacturing methods can be used, which have constructive advantages. You can also use carbon fibre casting, which is even better than aluminum castings but more expensive (BMW i3]. Magna Steyr is a reputable manufacturer, they know what they are doing. Progress comes from discussing different ideas, not hailing one god.

[@TurdFergusen]

@@harmony3138it is… tesla has made every car company look like pretenders…. legacy auto has been protectionist for too long

[@TurdFergusen]

@@harmony3138 oh you poor thing, theyve been scaling back their EVs… cancelling battery factorys… all in a show to convince the taxpayers that a bailout will be required when it was their plan all along

[@sangmoon2464]

It reminds me when Italian guilds in the 17th century resisted and disparaged more efficient manufacturing threatening their hand crafted livelihoods.

[@Pmooli]

The luddites in England

[@zacharyrivera566]

I think you are right .

[@nickmcconnell1291]

Govts need to not worry about Giga casting ending jobs. What they should be worried about is Teslabot.

[@frankcoffey]

I'm thinking repair could be lower on cast cars in the future. Much of the cost a frame repair is all the labor hours checking alignment and to certify safety back to original specs. If you can get the repair done with one large part that is already verified to spec all you have to do is fit the rest of the car to it. Automakers could come up with replacement process instructions that would greatly speed this up. However, this would only work if the casting were reasonably priced as a part. We shell see.

[@royh6526]

No, If they car has been in an accident that severe, it needs to be written off. Never buy a rebuilt car, you will suffer years of on-going repairs as every part of the car had some damage.

[@qilu2004]

gigacasting benefits auto makers. BUT, it may lead to higher repair cost for consumers. There is reason to be concerned. If it only means higher profit margin for automakers but not lower prices for consumers then consumers are screwed.

[@egondro9157]

Your points about repair are very in accurate. In America where Tesla started and has the most infrastructure. Still has an extremely high rate of write offs. Tesla then makes the cars ineligible for their recharge networks. This makes them non competitive and still expensive to repair. Tesla themselves restricts supply and who can repair. This in turn has incentive new Tesla purchases. Secondly Tesla insurance is their own scheme to have a inclusive market. By controlling all parts manufacturing, their own recharge and solar network. Setting their own repair services that are vastly overwhelmed, and now finally hosting their own insurance. They can finally control all aspects to make sure they can control prices and profit the best. This is a monopoly practice and will turn out very bad for consumers. This is why Tesla has been losing shares of the ev market. It has not grown in pace as everyone thought but major car brands are jumping in. So people are diverging from Tesla. Secondly when you have pressed parts they are under a lot of strain. You can cut pieces out especially if they have structural and safety effects. They have to be replaced. If their is no breaks or connection points then the whole top of the car would need to be replaced. Basically looking at a total for dings in any corners or creases. That is a ton of the exterior. Under carriage damage is common and isn’t a right of with cars now but when they become the structural linch pin they they will to. Underbody damage happens far more then people realize. More often it’s forgotten about and ignored. Out of sight, out of mind. So yeah this will cost people more in the long run. Also payout comment about premiums going up then receding is a joke. When has insurance ever raised rates and lowered them as a practice? Never is the answer when it comes to cars as the cost. The driver themselves can make it fluctuate but not the car. They will stick to their guns because it gets them profit and you all got used to paying it. Insurance doesn’t get cheaper as a whole. Not when they are all in the game together. This also Tesla has started producing cars like that to build quicker. The consumer isn’t seeing lower costs on the cars. It’s only gotten worst. Definitely not cut and dry like your making it sound. This will impact safety and production speed positively. Cost on the other hand will absolutely go up as a whole for a consumer to own, operate, and get repaired as a net effect. They are fighting a losing fight but they aren’t lying about the effects. They never weighed in on safety only consumer cost and that is without a doubt not going to drop.

[@bin-siewlim2191]

I believe this is similar to unibody design. I believe that a lot of race cars are designed using the same unibody design concept. In the old days, US car manufacturers found out that Japanese cars had better fits and finish because they had less parts. Mega-casting takes this approach to even a higher level making the cars structurally stronger and better finished.

[@danharold3087]

The best def I can find for unibody is "a single structural unit of an automobile consisting of a combined chassis and body.". Please note that are shades of grey here. Tesla is heading away from unibody with the big castings. When they get to casting the bottom 1/2 of the car in one part. we might argue that the car is body on frame. This may be a huge advantage for Tesla as it produces a single bootom/frame for the model 2 and a range of top hats aka bodies.

[@aesma2522]

Unibody (monocoque in French and used in other languages too) doesn't refer to a manufacturing technique but to a structure. All cars for decades have been unibody. It means the structural integrity and rigidity of the car isn't all about the chassis, but instead relies on the body, the panels, everything.

[@PaulG.x]

I've seen dozens of Teslas - they have the fit and finish of american cars i.e. garbage

[@bad406camaro]

That is so helpful and right on topic of the video and conversation... FFS@@PaulG.x

[@KingLutherQ]

I love this episode. I didn't realize French auto OEMs are such comedians.

[@edmondgautier8301]

FEDA is "Federation de la distribution automobile" its like the "independant automotive aftermarket federation" in England and the like in other countries. So there is no OEM member of this federation. You have to know that what writes or says FEDA has no or very little echo in France. I wonder how the electric viking stumbled upon this press report? To write that, I suppose that FEDA views Tesla Repair shops as a competitor. So, regretfully for him it's a fake news from the Electric Viking showing that Aussies like French bashing😀

[@geoffhaylock6848]

@@edmondgautier8301 Who doesn't like French bashing 😂😂

[@edmondgautier8301]

It’s not a reason to write BS about french automotive industry. Sam has to work harder

[@TheViewFromUpHere]

Magna International is a worldwide Canadian auto part manufacturer, who also builds some different car models in their Austrian plant.

[@miltonturney453]

So true

[@nospamallowed4890]

Gigacasting, automation and AI. They promise massive productivity improvements but also threaten the future livelihood of a large portion of the population. Instead of fretting so much about it, nations should wholeheartedly adopt it but establish *minimum* targets for % of population wanted in the middle class or even tiers of it. Then design corporate and import taxes plus supplemental income programs that are automatically adjusted to ensure those minimum percentages. That way it won't matter if automation/AI/gigacasting eliminate jobs or income... as it will be counterbalanced and produce a path towards encouraging automation without hurting citizens.

[@tedmoss]

Its not just one industry, its everything, everywhere, all the time. (Some people still haven't got the message).

[@kenoliver8913]

European social democrats used to use the slogan "protect the worker, not the job"- that is, spend tax money on supplemental income programs, free retraining, free health care, cheap housing, etc rather than trying to prop up uneconomic industries. It's pretty much what you are proposing.

[@nospamallowed4890]

@@kenoliver8913 Sort of. Normally I wouldn't recommend such a thing as I am more of a proponent of free industry and self-reliance, but as AI and automation make more and more human workers unnecessary, it might be the only logical alternative to prevent mass starvation and the resulting violence. Of course, it might not be needed if industry somehow manages to create new equivalent or better jobs as the old ones go away. And as industries become more and more productive they (or their owners) would be able to take a larger percentage of the tax burden, thus relieving lower income workers of it. It isn't even a matter of doing it "to be nice to the people", it is a matter of doing to avoid marginalized people in a given country from revolting because they have no other options.

[@BlackBuck777]

What a surprise. The French, bless 'em, have always been fiercely protectionist. Hence their own defence industry (fighter jets, subs), nuclear industry, car industry, etc.

[@johnpereztwo6059]

❤humility to learn . 😊

[@mikemotorbike4283]

Their's is the tired gambit of appealing to the patriotism of a public whom they don't realize are not ignorantly restricted to only french sources of information as they might hope to imagine.

[@kevinrice7635]

Yeah what he said agreed 💯

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Gudday mate tytyty for telling it like it is -salute

[@nealy2815]

The fears are based on recycling issues, cost of repairs etc. Electric Viking will always side with the employers against the worker? France fear mass layoffs Electric Viking has no concern for workers only owners. More tech less workers- to serve who??

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers mate

[@hulksmash6476]

I worked for Magna as a technician on krauss maffei 2600 ton presses, with the biggest tools @ 28 ton. So there talking a load of rubbish. The principles are all the same just the size. The giga press is 5600 ton (tonnage in force and machines are usually labelled as so).

[@TheAntoine191]

- You're making fair points in favor of casting. There could even be some solutions like getting a rebate on a new casting if you give back the broken one for raw materials (aluminium aint cheap). - Tesla is still a bad company regarding right to repair. I don't know if it recently changed but it is known to be impossible to repair outside of tesla dealerships which is not fair or good. They still make the best EVs no question about that. - Regardig structural batteries i still think they should be cautious with those. If we want sustainable cars we should be able to swap batteries and even have authorised battries reparations because often a single part or cell is damaged and the whole pack should not be scrapped. So structural OK if replacable (both arent mutually exclusives). - The Zoe has a 1 star rating not because of its structural integrity but because it does not include the latest driver assists (it was not interesting for renault to update that car on those assists given the target market and the fact they want to stop producing it). Until driver assists came in it had a good rating.

[@nrao8977]

It is called Colonial Hangover. This one is at the highest level. Normally it is reserved for a previous colony.

[@stephenwhite495]

Years ago a company called Hillman used an engine produced completely of aluminium and when this car was involved in a rear end accident and it caught fire the fire brigade were unable to put the fire out ! This also happened in the Falklands war , a certain frigate again built of aluminium was hit by missiles and again burnt for days and the ramifications was more service men died due to intents heat . Looks like a electric car fire at Luton airport . Didn't look good for electric cars , or their occupants !