Magneto to Engine Timing

[@yoBradyO11]

I enjoy getting lost in these random mechanics videos. I learn something new everytime. I was researching stuff for my 1972 Honda CL350 scrambler and I stumbled upon this and got lost lol. Keep on wrenching and keep on learning folks!

[@VGreggUndercover]

Small world. The pilot in the red shirt now works for an aerial photography company and I worked on a 310 he was flying at the time. Crazy to see people on KZbin and then see them in real life 👌🏽

[@richterdfr]

Good video, you did a good job of explaining the process slowly for those of us who have never seen how this is done.

[@DawnKenobi]

''One safety procedure is not to walk within the prop arc " Walks right by it..

[@Ken309]

Exactly 😂

[@apostateevangelist]

Oh, thanks, this work, I'm an AMT student in Michigan, and in my school project, I followed this steps and my engine kicks right away....

[@hellonwheels9149]

Did you finish school and get your license?

[@charlese.taylor5092]

Thanks for putting effort into making this! Due to the pandemic, all my practical classes have been postponed. These videos for sure help a darn lot!

[@elbartoanticomunista3327]

This is so helpful to me. I study powerplant in aviation school. Thanks man.

[@imallpissedoff]

Pavel is correct except that for greater safety, after removing the engine from the airframe to install the magnetos, the wings and empennage should also be removed so that in case the magneto accidentally fires, the plane will not fly away.

[@popstation83]

It is very well explained. Thank you so much from Spain.

[@SherlockHolmes530]

1:50 I think it's good. lol This part makes my day

[@pavelmushinskiy3492]

Nice video, think will be helpful for students. Good job guys! The only thing I would like to add that it's advisable to time magnetos to engine when not installed on an airframe cause you can still damage the cone and the cowling even when using protective equipment.

[@Shmey]

I'm impressed seeing the compression you can get from an engine that has been sitting outside for who knows how long.

[@GrummanPilots]

I agree about the blue painters tape, but most of the time is use flywheel marks, good video.

[@1skywrench]

that duct tape will sometimes remove the paint from the spinner when you peel it off. I always use the blue painter's tape it works well enough to hold the timing disc in place but it won't pull the paint off the spinner

[@hellonwheels9149]

There’s no fucking paint on it.

[@SergeantScare]

@@hellonwheels9149 Sssshhhhh lets see how observant people are.

[@Stepclimb]

You should really look into getting a "Rite system" magneto to engine timer. The old flowerpot is fairly inaccurate. Time rite uses a digital protractor that is accurate to 0.1 degrees. It also comes with bungees for 2 and 3 blade props. If that were my Baron, I would not be happy about you using duct tape on my polished spinners.

[@Shmey]

LeTourneau trains its students with the mission field in mind. That's why they use the flower pot. This says nothing of the amount of debt most students walk out of LeTU with. Kind of a strange place to be when most mission organizations require their missionaries to be out of debt to go on the mission field. I think they included the duct tape as a test run for a Hootenanny skit.

[@blacktempest2763]

u r gay

[@MrNavyman53]

You clearly don't do this for a living

[@Stepclimb]

@@MrNavyman53 True. Aircraft owners have different priorities than aircraft maintainers. For Aircraft maintainers, good enough is the goal…get er done quickly and move on to the next task. Accuracy is not as important. After all, it’s not their airplane and they don’t have to fly in it. For an aircraft owner that cares about precise magneto timing and its effects on peak intercylinder pressure (and CHT), accuracy matters.

[@MrNavyman53]

@@Stepclimb Not so much how many airplanes a person can get through, more the fact that a mechanic times magnetos far more often. A mechanic that's been doing it with a traditional buzz box and protractor or physical timing marks can most likely get the timing as dead on as another can with some digital protractor kit.

[@jettah2149]

Have a hard plastic long dowel to insert for TDC no 1 cyl. and I can feel the sweet spot right at TDC. :) put the flower pot on, I like the plastic base. If metal flower pot slit a fuel line and use as a ring cushion on the base of flower pot tie a few knots in your bungee cord make it snug. spray lil hog slidum thin on that pendulum and exercise it a bit. Set the protractor at O degrees back it up a bit like 60 degrees and come on to it to get the lash out till you get to 20 degrees or what ever the BTDC timing is on the data plate on engine or in the engine manual for the specific engine. Exercise that pendulum. Install mag set to fire on number 1. install the other mag to fire on number 1 use the first mag as master and have the second mag to come on EXACTLY to the first you put on....been doing it since 1979 that way....fast and on the money.

[@cristianfranco5020]

nice. i use this video for my study time :D

[@_ShaDynasty]

haha. 0:10 don't walk into the prop arc..... then proceeds to walk in front of the arc.

[@farqsideways5679]

" not to walk into the propeller arc" then proceeds to do just that.

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G, day from Sydney, Australia. Thank you from the demonstration and explanations to fit and time an electronic magneto. Q1. The audible tool for checking timing when piston is 20° TDC. How does it register and sound (I'm thinking a gap circuit)? Thank you 🌏🇭🇲

[@durden91tyler]

if you took off the hub and looked at the gear you could just match the notch on it to the starter to find 20 degrees...

[@snaprollinpitts]

excellent explanation!!!!!! thank you

[@MrJeepster129]

Good video, my only recommendation is not to use duct tape to secure the timing disk, as it leaves a sticky residue that is a pain to remove. I would use masking tape, much easier clean up.

[@jeremiahgazsi8579]

Since the engine is driving the propeller you need to take measurements after adjusting the propeller in the OPPOSITE direction of normal engine operation (this means rotating the prop by hand to the left for American Lycoming and Continentals, which when the engine is running turn to the right - as you look out the front window from pilot's seat). If you adjust the prop in the direction of normal engine rotation with your hand, you are adding backlash not eliminating it since as you hand adjust the propeller the propeller is driving the engine (not the other way around as during normal engine operation).

[@chrispetry8564]

Yep

[@cebunting]

The gear train is on the opposite end of where he is turning, he did correct. If he was turning the gear train itself then you would be correct.

[@doglegjake6788]

awesome video thanks for sharing !

[@tgtroxel]

Yes, I admit the duct tape is not necessary and it results in more cleanup. You can be creative and use other methods that are safer on the spinner as long as it holds the can centered and doesn't move. Once you understand how this works, you really should be checking the timing of both magnetos together. For safety, the ignition harnesses were removed from the magnetos so they would not fire. Most importantly, ALWAYS consult the proper maintenance manual and related service info as the final say for procedures over anything said in a video. Thank you for watching!

[@kylehedrick9653]

Wow. Reminds me of using dial gauges to get BTDC on individual cylinders of old two and three cylinder motorcycle two-stroke engines.

[@SoCalGuy93065]

Why are you using duct tape to hold the "flower pot" to the spinner? Every one of those that I've seen comes with stretchy cords to hold it securely to the prop, unless maybe you misplaced yours?

[@MrBullfrog92]

I would like to add that it is a good idea to verify you have the dial or deg wheel set correctly. I would rotate it back and forth a couple of times and verify you have the same amount of deg before and aft of tdc on the deg wheel verifying the dial is set correctly. IE if your at one stop and its 28 degree Before TDC when rotated to the other stop you should have 28 deg After TDC. always double check!

[@jimmyreyna4603]

I knew I could be an a and p mechanic the second they said duct tape.

[@mynamedoesntmatter9013]

How can you tell if the number 1 cylinder is in the compression and not exhaust stroke?

[@GRowe1978]

Matthew samson Put your finger over the spark plug hole and you can feel the piston forcing air out of the cylinder on the compression stroke.

[@letucasting1090]

+Matthew samson, it may take a few turns of the propeller to feel the outward pressure of air as mentioned by GRowe1978. The reason you'll need to turn the prop a few times is that the rotation of the prop will rotate the crankshaft and thus the piston.

[@tdkdelta4068]

we were taught the finger air pressure "method" as well, but in our advanced classes we were taught that the most time-consuming method, (but the only we were taught to make sure) was to take off the rocker box cover, and look at how they lift and lower. If you know the order the piston takes, both rocker arms are lifted at the same time right between the exhaust and intake events. So, you should see the arms feeling "loose", you can check by slightly jiggling them. After that, if you are turning the prop the correct way (this is more of a test to confirm the way you are turning the prop as well,) the intake valve should be lifted up (still loose) and the exhaust one should now be firm, as it is down.

[@521CID]

After you set your timing disk to 39, all you need to do was rotate the crank to 20 degrees before absolute tdc. No need to go all the way back to 0 only to move it past 20 degrees then back to 20 degrees to take out back lash. If you initially stopped at 20 degrees after your 39. There'd be. O back lash to worry about

[@giuaviation]

good job man

[@amaka747]

in 3:00 Why did you turn the propeller in to opposite direction of rotation since you already found TDC ? ? I didnt understand that :(

[@trentontroxel799]

That is because there is a plug sticking into the cylinder, screwed into the spark plug hole. The plug prevents the piston from actually reaching TDC, but provides a consistent reference point. The first stop of rotation was when the piston touches the plug. Then the propeller is rotated around the other way until the piston comes back up and touches the plug again. Now we know how many degrees of rotation it takes to reach the plug, and therefore how many more degrees are needed to reach TDC (half of the angle between plug contact to plug contact). Then when the plug is removed, we can accurately set TDC. As some comments have mentioned, most engines will have markings on a starter gear or belt pulley, but this method is somewhat universal.

[@64wing]

Trenton Troxel wrong. The if the piston touches the plug it is a long reach plug inappropriately installed in a short reach cylinder assembly. The reason for rotating backwards is because the magneto is timed to spark in advance of top dead center (on this Baron, which sports the Continental IO-470 series engine that should be about 20 degrees before top dead center) so if you begin at top dead center, rotating back will move you IN ADVANCE of TC. Ask yourself this question: if ignition occurs approaching maximum pressure within the combustion chamber (top dead center) how could it complete a stroke if the spark plugs prohibits reaching that point as you've alleged? By the way I'm a pilot and A&P mechanic that flies Barons and other piston twins.

[@Eric-zq3vl]

It's a piston locating plug that he's using in the video, not a long reach spark plug.

[@521CID]

I'm just saying you put a few steps I there that aren't needed. Though you still did a good job. Nice work

[@Cuadroclinico.]

hello a video of oil pressure increase and lower the pressure in the io520 engine oil pump

[@andrewwilson8317]

Did not catch how you decided it was on the ignition bit of the stroke rather than the exhaust bit of the stroke? Normally use a whistler or a finger over the plug hole to make sure on the compression,ignition stroke. My angle indicator has a non slip soft liner,saves all that rag and duct tape nonsense!

[@MarkSmith-zt2zl]

How about using the timing marks on the crankshaft that you can see through the timing window. Sure, it costs you a $0.30 gasket and a foot of safety wire but it's right on. P

[@DLima-z5j]

what about the other magneto, is it the same procedure? Should I sync both? How can I know that both are sync?

[@letucasting1090]

+Daniel Lima, I think so, yes. You'll see dual magnetos on aircraft for the reason of redundancy. Therefore, you're going to want the magnetos to fire off at the same time. Another way to think about this is as such: Go into the cockpit and look at how the aircraft will have a Left Magneto, Right Magneto, and both option as you turn the key or flip switches. This is brought up because it is another way to see that the aircraft will want to be operated in the BOTH position.

[@trentontroxel799]

The procedure is the same for both magnetos. When you set the prop to the proper position before TDC, you can adjust both magnetos. You verify that they are in sync, by using the timing light, which connects to both magnetos. It has a light and an audible indication if for each magneto or both magnetos being open. Doing the check at 7:55 would allow you to hear/see if one of them was not in sync. Then it is just a process of fine adjustment of the mag(s) until it is set properly.

[@neilmacwan7892]

How does the magneto gets charge in order to fire up the spark plug

[@Shmey]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to bore you to death. I'm just kidding. You would not have asked if you weren't interested. Here's the TL/DR version: The magneto has a spinning magnet that builds a magnetic field. The field uses coiled wires in a small transformer to generate an electrical impulse, and the secondary coils in the transformer steps up the electrical impulse to very high voltage. This high voltage gets directly fed to the spark plug. To answer a question you did not ask, look here: www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/ You will find most of the pilot-related textbooks free to download here. No joke. You could pass a lot of written tests on your way to being a pilot by reading through these pdfs. If you know your stuff, you could just pay a flight instructor to go over what he wants you to know. It might take an hour or two, but if he's happy with your knowledge, you may be able to talk him into signing you off to go take your written test, and he'll only have to spend time teaching you how to fly. You could save a lot of money here. To answer your question, you don't have to read the explanation I'm about to give. Just go here: www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/ Click (and download, if you like) the Powerplant manual, volume 1. Start at Chapter 4 (or page 162 of the pdf). I'll give you the summary version. The magneto has three major circuits that make it work. There is the magnetic circuit, the primary circuit, and the secondary circuit. The magnetic circuit consists of the strong magnet, a component called the "pole shoes", and a soft iron core. This circuit's job is to build, dissipate, and reverse the magnetic field needed to make the primary circuit work. The primary and secondary circuits are called such because they refer to the coil in the magneto. The coil is one component; functionally, a small transformer. In one sentence, a transformer's job is to either step up or down voltages, or isolate the load from the source of electricity. In this case, it steps up the voltage a great deal. The primary circuit consists of what are called "breaker points," a condenser (old-fashioned name for a capacitor), and the primary windings of the coil. This circuit's job is to turn the work done by the magnetic circuit into a useful electrical impulse. I'll spare you the details. If you are genuinely curious, follow the second link above and find the book and chapter I recommended. If you have done those, I will elaborate. The book is a great resource, but it's so much better to have human help. The secondary circuit consists of the secondary winding of the coil, the distributor, and the spark plug itself. This part is fairly self-explanatory. The most complex concept is that the secondary coil takes the electrical impulse of the primary coil and steps it up to a very high voltage. This high voltage is delivered to the spark plug through the distributor. At this time, I'm going to assume you know what a distributor is. If not, respond to me here and I will elaborate. I hope this helps!

[@timmoles9259]

The coil spins inside the mag generating high pulse electricity. High voltage (30k Volts and higher) and low amperage less then one amp. When the breakers brake contact causes a field collapse in the copper windings.

[@GamingwithKandA]

Surely there has to be an easier way.

[@Steve-ic7yi]

Hope that mag has been overhauled since this video. Those green dist blocks needed to be removed from service like 40 years ago.

[@sergiorojas4315]

Whats that black dudes name? I went to SIU with him. Cool dude.

[@JSAME1999]

Got enough single sided high speed adhesive there bud?

[@airboater67]

Good job

[@justinhughes4722]

This *only* works when you put the degree wheel on with that much DUCT TAPE

[@nicolasviveros7396]

thank you bro.

[@davidcastanedamarin3510]

Thank you

[@bobl78]

professional duct tape

[@seangreene64]

Degree wheel ducked taped to the spinner did it for me. I know there’s a better way than that. That has to be a mistake waiting to happen. Maybe if we where in the jungle making some survivor film, this duck tape thing might fly.

[@matthewmartin7639]

Actually that is how they teach it in A and P school. Granted my teacher used painters tape (which is what I'd recommend) But you have to make sure it doesn't move at all. And tape is the tried and true method.

[@tmunford1779]

Nothing says aviation like duck tape lol

[@MrDupperman]

you rotated it...you rotated it..I seen it... I saw you...yep, you rotated it...you sure did.yep..

[@Name-ot3xw]

First, you have to duct tape the hell out of it.

[@maheralazzawi7814]

great

[@polydos67]

oh dear......

[@SoCalGuy93065]

"...not to walk within the prop arc". So, of course, he puts his left arm right in the middle of the prop arc.

[@CrazyForCooCooPuffs]

Well he ain't spinning it is he?, If he was he would not be waking in between the prop arc, there is obviously not enough wind(which you need a lot of) to make a piston engine spin freely when hes doing this.

[@SoCalGuy93065]

CrazyForCooCooPuffs How long have you been flying? Obviously not very long (if at all), otherwise you'd know that it doesn't take much prop movement for an engine to start if the mags are hot, the fuel is on, and the engine is anywhere near where the mags would fire on any of the cylinders. Do you even know what a P-lead is? And I think you mean "walking", not "waking"

[@CrazyForCooCooPuffs]

SoCalGuy93065 I'm an A&P not a pilot. I work the line on an FBO, where it is nice and windy every day, I don't see much prop movement. The only thing that moves are the free turbines on the being planes across the field. There's clearly no wind in this video, These are obviously students being supervised by a experienced instructor. Oh and you need to add more things to try and win the argument like correcting my spelling, we are adults this isnt highs school.

[@SoCalGuy93065]

CrazyForCooCooPuffs "this isnt highs school". LOL, if you don't want people to think you're ignorant try not putting your foot in your mouth when you're trying to prove them wrong. And who said anything about wind (other than you)? Hopefully you're aware that there are more ways of turning (and starting) an engine other than just that (?).

[@SoCalGuy93065]

SoCalGuy93065 On the other hand, if they'd removed all of the spark plugs (or at least disconnected the leads) I'd agree that it was safe to turn the prop without any danger of the engine starting unexpectedly.

[@terrybaremor6361]

In your A&P school did they not teach you not to rotate the propeller in opposite direction of rotation as you have now destroyed the carbon block in your vacuum pump.

[@hellonwheels9149]

What about moving backwards during a compression test ? How many pumps have you wrecked ? Idiot. I’ve moved props backwards for 20 years and not one single one has broken. Dipshit.

[@av8tore71]

Trying to be funny....not!! DO OVER!! Should make sure the indicator is level first and NEVER us duct tape! Get the MAG RITE system, the system is more accurate then the analog one you are using here plus it works on multiple blades, it's plastic and will not scratch the spinner so not rags and it has bungee cords so NO DUCT TAPE. Good luck!

[@oibal60]

Buzzbox never seems to give reliable indications when getting both mags to play nice. Forest McBride's 'cone and pendelum' method works so much better!