Magnus Did Nothing Wrong... Or DID He?

[@eyeh8u1]

The Thousand Sons are one of the sadder tales of the Horus Heresy. They were loyal and had every intention of remaining so in trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal.

[@OldWitchDoctor]

Magnus did the wrong things for the right reasons.

[@lucasyoung9945]

OldWitchDoctor nah that was Ahriman

[@solus4785]

OldWitchDoctor I agree with you, he tried to save the emperor from Horus, but accidentally let half a million Daemons into the Imperial palace because tzeench played him like a fiddle

[@baker90338]

a *Damn fiddle.

[@ruialmeida7869]

Plus the damage to the astrophatic choir and its stucture and the web way, wich is the worst off all. And all for nothing, the warning about horus heresy was already on the way in the form of an astropath called Kay. Dont bargain with Tzeench , or he will screw you in the ass:p

[@nicholasminter1250]

The biggest enemy of knowledge isn't the lack of knowledge. It's the belief that you are knowledgeable. Magnus felt that he knew enough about the warp that he couldn't possibly ruin anything for the emperor. He felt that he knew what he was doing and that was why tzeench targeted him.

[@MisterTsumi]

Magnus' sin is pride, no doubt. And he absolutely got played by Tzeentch. But none of his actions were ever taken from a position of malice or evil. He defied the Edict of Nicea and broke the webway trying to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal. But had the Emperor TOLD his sons what he was doing on Earth, then Magnus would probably not have broke through the Emperor's wards and found another way to warn him. But the Emperor didn't trust ANYONE. That's HIS sin. And I'd make the case (admittedly as a Magnus partisan) that the Emperor was at least as culpable for the destruction of the Human Webway as Magnus was. So, yes... Magnus did something wrong, but for all the right reasons.

[@Lorddacenshadowind]

Mister Tsumi the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I do feel bad for Magnus though

[@tobiaswinters3815]

Look at the flaws of the Primarchs. All of them had reason for the Emperor to not trust them. All were flawed, and most- if not all- had the potential to fall to Chaos. The Emperor was doing what was needed. As for Magnus, he disobeyed the Emperor. Had he not made that choice, the Webway wouldn't be breached. He could have chosen a different method. He could have contacted Terra's Astropaths, he could have contacted Malcador. He could have chosen any path that didn't break the Emperor's wards. He did wrong, for the right reasons, but still wrong, no excuses.

[@kazaddum2448]

Which is something Magnus agreed to. Then his Dad seemingly sent Russ to murder Prospero. Then he went: "You know Dad, you murder me and my people for fucking up because your lack of trust. You know what? Fuck. You."

[@EmperorsChildren]

This, so much this

[@adeptustacticus3112]

Tobias Winters well in the book "A thousand sons" magnus states that he breaks the edict because sending an astropathic message wouldn't reach Terra before Horus' betrayal. So really Magnus didn't have another choice

[@giraton1]

Late to this particular video but I think TTS got Magnus' character right on the nose with the line "Being right is ALWAYS relevant!"

[@negadoge]

Thanks.... now I gotta go binge TTS again... I both respect and loathe you.

[@giraton1]

@@negadoge you're welcome 😆

[@sephiwolf4472]

I feel like the phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" fits really well here. Though honestly, couldn't this same line of reasoning be applied to Horus and Lorgar as well? I would argue all the traitor Primarchs were heroes of their own stories. What I mean is, they were all manipulated and lied to by the powers of Chaos. Think about Horus for a second. He was shown a Chaos vision of a horrible future and then he was lied to about it. He was told that if he didn't intervene then that future would come to pass. He believed the Emperor was seeking god-hood and betraying all of humanity on a quest for power. So in the mind of Horus, he was doing the right thing by bringing down the Emperor. And if you apply that reasoning to Lorgar, he was simply doing what he believed was right as well when he worshiped the Emperor, which opened the door for Chaos. As I said, everyone is the hero of their own story. The traitors originally saw themselves as humanity's last bastion of hope against a madman bent on gaining god-hood and making all of humanity enslaved.

[@TheTrueAlpharius]

Next video: Why Alpharius is still alive and his masterplan is nearly complete

[@Figue-]

The True Alpharius what is his masterplan?

[@TheTrueAlpharius]

I cannot share this information just yet! but rest ashured that we will give you an awesome M42!

[@Figue-]

The True Alpharius Are you a loyalist infiltrating Chaos to destroy it from within, executing the Emperor's true will ?

[@TheTrueAlpharius]

Yes!

[@danielross489]

No. I am Alpharius!

[@scarfymonster]

I’m on board with most of the analysis here - full disclosure I am an XV Legion patsy - if anything I am a little harder on Magnus for wrecking everything. My takeaway from the events surrounding Prospero is that Magnus deserved to be arrested and brought back to Terra for censure as planned, and that the true tragedy was that after he realized that, stuff went sideways due to the savagery of Russ and the machinations of Horus. There’s an ironic juxtaposition there in that Russ was as eager to play the role Horus manipulated him into as Magnus was eager to play the role Tzeentch sets for him. As an aside to this, I do feel Magnus’ arrogance tends to be overplayed a bit. Yes he’s smarter than everyone, yes it’s therefore hard for him to relate, but his arrogance is a vague shadow of that of his father, and not particularly greater than that of many of his brothers.

[@TheSkruer]

I think it would be interesting if Magnus was redeemed in some way, making him replace the emperor on the golden throne allowing the emperor to regenerate and free to do other things like fixing the broken imperium.

[@snakesnake6799]

I really don't think the emperor would take the emporium of man as it is . he will just disappear and let it burn then start allover again, as he did before .much easer

[@arsenelupin5424]

@@snakesnake6799 I don't know,its a bit late in the game to start over.There're other players in the game and they'd love to get a win on afk foe

[@ShadowlessFist]

His intent was good. And, had the Emperor clued him in on his plans (especially as it was likely Magnus' destiny to sit on the throne) it likely wouldn't have gone done that route. In fact, the Emperor and Malcador should have kept Magnus close and personally educated and trained him about the Warp and instilled the importance of discipline when it came to Warpcraft.

[@crypto1223]

ShadowlessFist I agree. The two oldest and most powerful psykers in the universe really should’ve paid better attention to Magnus. It’s not like the Thousand Sons needed their Primarch nearby to issue orders. The superman could send his orders directly to his captain’s minds without an astropath.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@ShadowlessFist]

ColonelSandersLite and yet, intent changes everything. If you get hit by a car while crossing the street because a driver loses control of the vehicle it is entirely different than the driver deliberately swerving to hit you with the car. The outcome might be the same (you get hit by the car) but the intent or lack thereof would/should certainly influence how you felt about what happened to you. I for one would be more likely to forgive a driver who hit me by accident and more likely to want some sort of punishment for the one who deliberately hit me. Intent colours the context of an action and informs the consequences/repercussions of an action. A Psyker as powerful as the Emperor should have been able to divine Magnus' intent as one rooted in loyalty and even though he mightily screwd the Webway project over, seen that it would be better to to have Magnus on side. Had the Emperor then summoned Magnus alone, and set him the Penance of fighting the War in Webway/Sitting on the Golden Throne, the Emperor himself would have been able to go out to put and end the Heresy much sooner. In fact, as I said before, all of this would have been avoidable had the Emperor and Malcador possessed the foresight to Personally train Magnus to protect himself from the influence of warp entities and to have him involved in the Webway project from the start. So much of the Emperor's psychic resources were already tied up in the Astronomicon it is no wonder he managed to miss the malign influence creeping into his Legions. TL:DR Intent Shapes Everything, even when the outcome is the same (IMO)

[@yodayoda4764]

Except the Emperor fucking did. Read the damn Thousand Son book. The Emperor clearly spent time educating Magnus on the Warp and later on, informs him about the Webway Project. READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

[@ShadowlessFist]

yoda yoda chill out dude. Not everyone has the time to read every book that gets churned out. To the best of my knowledge at the time of writing my comment - and the established lore before the HH series started shining a more detailed spotlight on the events of the time - was that Magnus didn't know what he was doing and in his ignorance caused his own downfall. If the book adds nuance that I wasn't previously aware of, I stand corrected. However, there is no need to be an Ass about it. The main point of my comment still stands, his intent was not to cause harm and he was loyal until manipulated into a corner.

[@TheMonstrumAMV]

Thats why Magnus is my favorite and his Legion. It's really sad, how they sacrificed so much so they could help, but in the end they were blamed were almost killed, but Space Wolves who almost killed them (on an order from traitor Horus) are viewed as heroes... :/

[@Rune3100]

Roland Varga, I consider the Space Wolves heroes despite their actions on Prospero, but that's because of things like the First War for Armageddon where they stood up to the Inquisition and Grey Knights and said "fuck you, you're not going to kill all these people cause they saw daemons."

[@Arthion]

Modern SW perhaps. Leman is still a douchebag

[@sobanred7509]

You said how Magnus tried to warn the emperor was bad. The reason Magnus did it that way cause any other way mould take weeks to get his message to tera.

[@arsesmith346]

Magnus is best. He was the most human of the Primarchs and wanted to build humanity up. the emperor and Horus screwed him over. hopefully someday he kicks the shit out of Leman russ.

[@ZerveDA]

*Cracks knuckles* BRING IT ON NERD! *Howls*

[@Tullaryx]

Vulkan is the most human. As for Magnus being innocent. I think he's the poster boy for the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@tabe8850]

Honestly, Russ sucks

[@warhammerbadly5973]

@eddorado Actually, In Wolfsbane Russ states that He was upset that Horus misguided him into attacking Prospero. But He still believes Magnus got what he deserved.

[@sergiovieira8272]

Fuck Leman Russ

[@meanestgreen3320]

"The road to hell is lined with good intentions" sums up magnus pretty well

[@philiphockenbury6563]

Love the Salamander pfp

[@KingFlameHawk]

Magnus is a good boy. He doesn't go to church every Sunday.

[@Kolossus_]

No that would be Lorgar

[@Daniel-zc6ee]

Ok we got great videos on Lorgar, Angron and Magnus. Can you make one about Konrad Curze or Fulgrim please?

[@sevlow4035]

magnus took the wrong turn to the kyropractor

[@lukekelly4091]

Could you do a couple of videos on your opinions of different primarchs like Khan, fulgrim and kurze?

[@ViciousVitiate]

Luke Kelly spaghetti Khan is the best and my favorite. Easily one of the coolest primarchs despite not being liked by his brothers.

[@lukekelly4091]

vracknor but he was respected though and Horus, Hawk boy and Magnus liked him

[@ViciousVitiate]

Luke Kelly indeed. I also like his sort of self honesty. When he meets up with most of his brothers in one of the books he looks at them all and goes through it in his,mind,if, he could beat them in a fight and pretty much checked the box for yes on everyone except for mortarion.

[@lukekelly4091]

vracknor he knew he could beat the likes of fulgrim and the Lion for the one reason he knew how they fought were he didn't know how mortarion fought because like himself he was at the edge of the crusade and the khan was all about brutal honesty

[@sergiovieira8272]

Magnus did nothing wrong and both he and Guilliman are my favorite Primarchs. Now the next video should be "Why Leman Russ is a Hypocrite Bloodthirsty Furry Fuck who knows nothing of loyalty to his brothers and his Space Yiffs are fucking overated wolf cancer".

[@BildoShaggens]

Can any of the traitors be redeem in canon? I get why not for the table top. But in terms of the the story of is there any that could have a shot at it? Make a vid please

[@KrimzonFlygon1]

“I just want to give my brother a great big “I’m not mad that you ruined everything forever” hug!” “THAT WAS *LORGAR,* GODSDAMMIT!”

[@Trash_Tobi]

I would love a video for you about Vulkan or Mortarion

[@MegaCuddlesworth]

Magnus used to be my favorite primarch, but then I realized how much of a disappointment he was. During the Burning of Prospero, he literally laid down to die. There is even a scene in the book where Ahriman confronts him about defending the world, sees Magnus moping around being an apathetic defeatist, then Ahriman sees him truly as a cowardly disappointment of a progenitor once the veil of admiration is lifted. This is why Ahriman led 90% of the planet's defense and performed the Rubric. Once I realized all of this, I stopped liking Magnus nearly as much, and started liking Ahriman a lot more.

[@crimsondynamo615]

SeeDubEE is this why some of the Thousand Sons call him traitor

[@Mrtango981]

I can't remember as it's been a while since I read any of the books, but to me it was as if he was submitting to judgement. He had tried with good intentions, openly defying the Edict of Nikea and yet he had failed. Drawing on what Kirioth said about the action being a selfless sacrifice, his actions afterwards actually confirm this as he doesn't try to weasel his way out of the repercussions or defy what he believes is his father's will, no matter how extreme it may seem. From ahriman and the rest of the legions perspective it would be pretty shit as their lives would have basically become forfeit to uphold magnus's honour and he may have seemed like a coward because of this. I believe that's where his arrogance and stubbornness come into play, only allowing him to see the big picture of failure and judgement whilst missing any opportunity to save his beloved sons who once looked up to him from being slaughtered

[@knight-v4i]

Magnus did plenty wrong though. Not out of malice or evil intent but his arrogance naivety and blind lust for knowledge led him to do plenty of wrong things. He was played by Tzeentch but he left himself so open to manipulation that a 5 year old could have tricked him. There’s a vast difference between having no ill intent and doing nothing wrong. Magnus had no evil intentions but he did plenty wrong. That ritual you write off as him doing nothing wrong contained direct appeals to the chaos gods just for starters. I feel sorry for him but it’s not like Angron who had almost no chance, Magnus was like a guy who just won a lot of money walking down a street in a bad neighbourhood waving the money around for all to see, it’s tragic what happened to him but the way he behaved it was almost inevitable.

[@johannesmakila2459]

More heresy from Kirioth I see. Thing about Magnus is that while he was arrogant at end of day he was also at mercy of others because of it. Namely The emperor, Horus and Leman Russ. So Magnus' arrogance was his biggest flaw and Horus was able to use that to his own gain. Then again Horus having Leman Russ burn Prospero didn't help either.

[@maxnovakovics2568]

Team nothing wrong. Knowing what we know now, if I were Magnus, I wouldn't have bothered to warn the Emperor. Fuck em. Engineered the flesh change into Magnus and the Sons. Made him curious then forbade exploring that curiosity. Withholding information.

[@TheAgentmigs]

Here come the played out "nipple armor" jokes.

[@randomicus4782]

im batman

[@captainthorrek262]

It's not Magnus' fault if GW modeled him after his time on Fenris

[@MR.LMR1996]

"I HAVE NIPPLES ON MY HEAD!" -Magnus the Red. TTS Special 4.

[@marinesinspace6253]

Horn titties.

[@gwyndolin1536]

Please continue with your "Perspective on the Primarchs"....I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on Konrad Curze, Fulgrim, and Mortarion, in that order.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

thing is with the 7 thing he does prove mortarions superstition his reliance on the supernatural he proves that mortarion is hypocritical he doesnt tell him about the 7 thing to inform mortarion about it, he tells him because its why mortarion does it mortarion does it because of faith, superstition and the hope for supernatural its not "hey here is a little curiosity you should know" its "hey you call my doings witchcraft but look at what you are doing and why" and mortarion didnt have a comeback for it

[@IainCiplinski]

Magnus did everything wrong, he was loyal only to his own goal of enlightening humanity, as soon as it differed from the Emperors view of enlightenment Magnus did his own thing, Magnus knew what the warp could do since the flesh change almost obliterated his legion at the outset of his command of it, he continually pushed the boundaries, even when censured. Magnus was arrogant, prideful and overconfident in his own abilities, but all of the Primarchs were to some extent, but Magnus always knew better, his 'accidental' destruction of the webway project was a choice, because Magnus had the power to save the Imperium, Magnus had to be the one to warn his father, Magnus could, so Magnus did, as Magnus always had. One of the best fleshed out (pun intended) Primarchs, and one of my favourites, but still wrong in almost everything he set out to do.

[@sindrimyr5351]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@linkgaming19]

I mean one of the most satisifying moments in Thousand Sons is when Magnus gets almost beat down a peg by the demons and by Russ. That was one of the greatest moments when he realizes he was just a pawn. Though one issue is that Magnus assumed the Emperor knows less about the warp and stuff compared to him "oh daddy is too weak to enter the warp or know too little about it, whereas I have beaten a deamon" Yes his attentions were pure but he still ripped open Terra and caused the webway war which kinda fucks both the Emperor and the Custodes

[@carllong8954]

Acctually one of the details that gets missed in all this is that the Emperor ordered Rus the bring Magnus to Terra. The tained traitor son Horus changed the order to "destroy Prospero" to force Magnus to align to the powers in the warp. And Magnus' story is number 1 for me.

[@warhammerbadly5973]

So that's how you wind up with nipple horns?.. Ya do nothing wrong?... Yes Magnus tried to warn the Emperor of Horus's betrayal, but he never followed through once it all went nipple-horns-up. Magnus was wallowing in self pity, knowing he had fallen to the ploy of the Chaos powers. So he was too busy to pick up the phone when his brother Russ came calling. Seriously, all he had to do was turn himself over to Russ without a fuss & he wouldn't have wound up with his back broken. Also: The power the Rune priests use is warp energy in essence, however it is filtered through the spirit of Fenris (which is why their power is strongest on Fenris) They also use it in restraint much more than other psykers because they know the warp corrupts and don't suffer from the blind hubris of the Thousand sons. There.. Pot stirred :P

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

they started their "capturing" of him with an orbital bombardment the wolves are just rabid dogs that never had the intention to let him come quietly they finally had an excuse to be the bookburning savages they wanted to be and rune priests are still making that claim while fenris is now the planet of sorcerors they are superstitious idiots that think drawing an eye on a door keeps the warp out weird how the eye is also used to draw the warp in its almost as if their superstition makes them easily manipulated by the warp you know, like the burning of prospero was so easily started with a deamon on their ship

[@chrishutchinson1874]

The story of Magnus is a tragedy in the most literal of senses. He was a hero brought low by his own character flow which in his case was Hubris. Now considering Hubris is more common than bolt shells in the 40K universe i really don't think he deserved the shit he got.

[@DannyTube69]

Just converted some chosen with plasma guns :) Combi bolter to Combi plasma with a plasma sponson from a leman Russ.

[@robertrizer4708]

The Ahriman-Olgr Wyrdmake fight was one of the most epic fights in the HH books.

[@seancase71]

Robert Rizer Destroyed his mind with the truth leaving him so disheartened and broken he let his soul be devoured by void predators leaving his body an empty husk. Yeah no one would know such a complete destruction, until the Big E himself completely erased Horus from both dimensions.

[@Kay_Drechsler]

This is a really descent and well told reflection on one of the most interesting primarchs! Keep doing these! My question is: wouldn't it be also one possibility that Magnus just didn't have enough time to think of a more "save" way to tell the emperor? Maybe he just didn't have enough time to react on the most dramatic change of events in the 40k universe? I'm not sure since I didn't read all the available lore but it was always bugging me somehow.

[@madminute8249]

He did seem to feel he had little time and he distrusted sending an astropathic message given how it could've been misinterpreted. Another motivation would be that after Nikaea, Magnus wanted to prove himself worthy again before the Emperor and saving the Imperium through Warp based powers would've been a huge political victory toward that end.

[@vraska8799]

I Just finished "Athousand sons" yesterday... at the end, Ahriman said that he was going to prove that his legion was loyal. I already liked the Thousand sons because i knew they seek knowledge, but after reading that book i love them more and ranked them first on the traitor legions... And those mindless hypocrites Space wolves to the bottom of my list... with Lorgar. Nice video Kiri 10/10

[@ruialmeida7869]

Not being one of my favorites legions (i like them all), the roll of Russ is an ungrateful one. When sanction is needed, the big E call's the wolfs to do the job, they are the Emperors executioners, not a pretty line of work :p But they are not without their merits. For exemple, they put themselfs between the Inquisiton and the almighty imperial guard, when the inquisition wanted to killed the guard to keep a secret. They said no, you have to shoot our ship to kill them. They fought good for the emperor and dont deserve execution. Going against the Inq in such an open way needs some special kind of ball's :D They have this point of view that only their use of the warp is pure and clean, hypocrite? Yes in the genneral view, but they really belive it. Maybe the Emperor made this way on porpuse. Now lorgar...what a cry baby, but i think his role is cool in the big scheme. Btw "A thousand sons is a hell off a cool book. Magnus is also one of my favorite primachs and of course the Lion himself.

[@EloquentTroll]

Magnus is the only traitor in my top 5 list. 1)Sanguinius 2)Magnus 3)Russ 4)Lord Adorable (Dorn, solely because of TTS) 5)Vulcan I just realized how much "If the Emperor had a Text to Speech Device" has influenced this list, Khan would be 2 and Magnus 3 without that series (and Russ would fall off the list) And Thousand Suns are the only traitor legion I have any interest in, which is weird because Khorne is my favorite ruinous power. I can relate to Magnus because I am little miss "well actually" IRL.

[@nileforce]

i love Magnus and i absolutely think that he had good intentions with everything that he did. He is my secund favorite primearch after Fulgrim!

[@darwinfowler8877]

Kirioth is like nastradamus in this video. Great to listen to after listening to this after Echoes of Eternity.

[@richtheunstable3359]

the Night Haunter next please. Even more complex than the others or just an edge lord. I think he was a soul that just couldn't be what his father expected to be and had human Failing's.

[@SteveVDuelist]

me read of Mangus was he did ttry and do good, but felt he had to prove the Nikka desion wrong, so chosen the risker warp path to warn the Emperor, the speed was more an afterthought

[@RazRikimaru122]

Magnus is my favorite primarch, that made me realize the emperor is not all that Good, i still dont think chaos is better, but it has shown that the emperor was shortsighted, arrogant and flat out so distant and "perfect" he didn't interact with his children enough. He became blinded by his ideals that he never stopped to work with one of his brightest sons and tutor him. There are no best leaders in 40k, only varying degrees of bad.

[@DarkTempIari]

The fact Magnus was essentially forced to being traitor is one of the reasons I went with the thousand sons for my army, that and the fact they weren’t spikey other than Ahriman and Magnus

[@lakurwa]

few day ago i thing about it . I just finished read thousand sons

[@chrishutchinson1874]

Russ is a huge hypocrite and he acknowledges it in "Wolfs Bane"

[@Captain_Idaho]

Everyone seems to forget the real reason the Emperor censured Magnus and likely would have had him killed. He might have broken the Edict of Nikea, which was reason enough for the Thousand Sons to be censured heavily, but there's more. Sure he created a warp rift under the Emperor's palace and caused a massive problem, but this also wasn't the reason the Emperor was to have him punished. Magnus made a bargain with Tzeetch to save the Thousand Sons from the flesh change. When opening a telepathic link to the Emperor their minds were connected and the Emperor saw this. This is high treason and folly and thus the Thousand Sons were to be eradicated. Likely Magnus would be executed by the Emperor for this also.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

that happened while magnus was still with the emperor and the emperor knew of it he just didnt want to bother having a talk with him about why he had to have a broken legion the emperor was a bad and lazy dad that saw tzeensh his help as lucky

[@Captain_Idaho]

Ashardalon Dragnipurake What's your source for that? My source was Index Astartes Thousand Sons (and numerous others that talked of the catastrophic link between them on the palace) and the Horus Heresy book a Thousand Sons which revealed Magnus' shady deal with the devil. You're assuming the Emperor could read the mind of Magnus casually and know what he did, which is wrong. Also, the Emperor wasn't a father. Dark Imperium reveals that to Guilliman who actually resents the callous attitude of the Emperor to his creations.

[@TheTrueAlpharius]

Question: Is Malcador stronger as a psycher than Magnus?

[@MisterTsumi]

In the novels, the Emperor basically states that he wants Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne and control the Human Webway. Doing so for just a day burnt Malcador to a crisp. I'd say it's pretty definitive that the answer to your question is no.

[@derpimusmaximus8815]

I don't think it's because Malcador's body was weak, I think it's because integrating someone into the Throne will fuck them hard if they're then removed. I mean, the life-support systems that have held the Emperor in a not-dead-yet state for 10,000 years, despite the power-fucking he'd got from a 4-Ruinous-Power enhanced Horus. IMO, the Emperor's plans for Magnus basically started with sticking him in the Throne and leaving him there for eternity.

[@MisterTsumi]

I never said the Throne was "designed" for Magnus, I said the Emperor intended to have Magnus sit on it to run the Human Webway. Not sure where you're getting the "Malcador was stronger" from though. His body certainly was frailer.

[@godkinggokinggodking]

In the last books of HH (the search for magnus' souls shards) they retconned how wolves see psychic powers. They say about the 1ksons: MALEFICARUM and to Dio Promus (former ultramarine librarian) "you are like me... Star cunning eh? Not like those damn maleficarum!". that alludes to the difference between psychic might and sorcery.

[@godkinggokinggodking]

Also that books states quite clearly that Magnus did all wrong. He may be right and know best, but still was told not to look and did so in betrayal of an oath. So needed to be punished by the most ruthless and unquestioning weapon in the imperium's disposal.

[@Godzillakingofkaiju1]

Magnus had one job. ONE. JOB.

[@sachadouglas8418]

Ironic how the Emperor pushed for understanding and stuff but the one thing he hid was the most important and crucial thing, and it ended up literally destroying everything he worked for... Poor Big E

[@carbonbasedmolecule9197]

I love 40k lore. All my friends from all walks of life and political beliefs have found things to love about it. I would argue it’s just as deep as Tolkien in some aspects. Listening to these stories there are some truly good morality tales embedded in the narrative.

[@drlca6601]

I am a fan of the universe, never played but collected a few models in fantasy and 40k. That being said, the HH books are great or at least some of them. The one about Magnus is very well written. The part where he materializes on Terra is especially memorable, and also the fight for Prospero where his men devolve into monsters. Magnus is an interesting character, but his narrative doesn't really make sense. He could always repent and seek to aid the Imperium, but he refuses to so GW can avoid advancing the story. There is a good chance he''ll be the swing vote in the final confrontation. If you read the book, (can't remember the name lol) you learn that despite his horror at unintentionally betraying his father, he still is aligned with GEOM. GW need to finish the story and just allow chaos and the warp to persist. Even if all the warp gods are vanquished, chaos bands could still roam, instead imbued with their own powers from their chaos worships, just greatly diminished. Finish the story. Hire your best writers, Magnus, Dorn, Rus, Vulkan, Roboute, the Khan vs. all. Give us a movie with good CGI even. I want to see Vulkan and Angron square off with Vulkan eventually triumphing and destroying Angron forever. Just don't make it like the other CGI movie. Give it some money. Do it. My personal fanfiction, is all the loyalists Primarchs banding together after some rocky meetings, starting the Imperium Secundus with Roboute (sadly this is just how it is,) and Khan and Rus leading them through the Webway and warp respectively, some Edlar heresy in between, all in an attempt to make it to Nurgle's Garden, rescue (steal) that Eldar goddess, bring her to Terra and heal the Emperor... or kill him! Boom! Final confrontation happens Siege of Terra 2.0 130th Black Crusade, Tau and Eldar form a last, temporary alliance bceause GEOM becomes a nice guy, and decides killing friendly Xenos is a mean thing to do, and honestly makes no sense. Beat the warp gods and then onto Necrids and Tyranids, por even some new threats! And because the GEOM is such a Gary Stu just kill him off again lol. Give him a nice big scene, a whole book based on his whole life maybe. DO IT GW.

[@Smiffe]

Where is the Inquisitor Martyr episode 3? :(

[@DCVM93]

smiffe1 inquisitor martyr will be a Saturday video, and Dawn of War videos will be Sunday possibly

[@iand3lond]

Magnus was an self indulgent idiot. Dude got his visions of Horus turn traitor during the Council of Nikaea. May be tell Daddy who is sitting in the next room ? Naaah he will just deal with it himself so Daddy will HAVE to apologized and admit Magnus is the most loyal and the best of his sons.

[@sindrimyr5351]

so...you just had a vision of your fathers favoured son turn traitor, while you are beeing judged and it would totally dont look like you want to distract from your own case, and tell him "hey dad i just had a vision which may or may not be true, in which i saw Horus fall to a force i dont understand, Betrays you and will bring total anihilation to the imperium".....Ahriman, the eldar and Magnus always say, that there are millions of possibilities when observing the future. so no....it wouldnt have worked...or ther emperor would have gotten angry for accusing horus and distracting from his own trial.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

there are a lot of mentions about magnus his arrogance and him claiming to know better then his father but you have to consider, he got a broken legion there is a reason they are called the thousand sons his father never could fix it, told him it was impossible but he did, he did wath his father couldnt do using the warp ofcourse he is going to think he knows better then his father after that remember, he designed himself, the emperor had the idea of him and after that he helped the emperor make him, did most of the work infact so considering his flaw is arrogance and that is a flaw all primarchs and the emperor have he made the best primarch, he made a better primarch then his father could with his werewolf and blooddrinking failures how could he not be arrogant

[@nalrashido]

The rusted chains of prison moons Are shattered by the sun I walk a road, horizons change The tournament's begun The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king

[@dericksnyder4757]

HERESY!!! But yea, Magny Magic got a raw deal. We love you red. Awesome channel!

[@darrenrichardson6146]

Magnus simply hadn't heard that old Earth Saying "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions" :D

[@adfury]

Magnus is very close to the Emperor when the Emperor talks to other perpetuals.

[@rstan5981]

Another point that is important is that after the royal fuck up he knew that he will be punished and kinda prepaired for consicvences(?) of his actions. And I think that it is very important that Magnus actually realised his wronghood.

[@The_Prince_Of_Crows]

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Also, the problem with the T sons is they did not believe in restraint in any shape fashion or form. They regarded knowledge in an extreme fetish like manner and even divided their selves into accurately named "cults". Other primarchs believed in limits and restraint where the warp was concerned and that was the big difference between the son's of Magnus and the son's of Russ. Besides, Leman Russ never made a pact with the 30k equivalent of the Devil (about the fleshchange)and then simply told himself, "no worries", he would be smart enough to outwit any demon of the warp by the time that same Devil came for his due. The last thing to add to the discussion is, did it really matter one way or the other, if he warned the Emporer about Horus? Was it even necessary at all? No, he simply believed he was, once again, about to outwit fate and the Gods because he was Superman. His boundless arrogance should over-ride any sympathy he might gain from his intentions. Afterall, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and a whole host of people we correctly perceive to be tyrants and mass murders all had good intentions at heart. It is the actions that define you.

[@lkvideos7181]

Magnus was redeemable back then, but now he's turned into a blunt Chaos tool.

[@theviper5952]

You should talk about Warhammer school alliance and why it is a good thing for the hobby

[@Hunk666]

Uther Wyrdmake? That fucking snake! the thousand sons books are really good!

[@NateVHVT]

From Fury of Magnus, a quote from Magnus "Your intent is meaningless, you are still responsible" So Magnus did everything wrong; confirmed by his own logic. Argument over.

[@terciodeflandes97]

I still don't understand why he didn't just send a message via astropaths or AT LEAST a fleet going to Terra to warn them. The Heresy took years to reach Terra, he had plenty of time. Can someone explain?

[@YouthRightsRadical]

Despite his vast psychic might, Magnus was not, in fact, in possession of the books that detail how the Horus Heresy progressed. He was not aware Horus would spend his time dicking around accomplishing sweet fuck all for years. Following the attempt to send his message via sorcery, the Emperor considered Magnus a traitor, so any ships he sent to Terra would have been shot down before being able to deliver their message. If Russ had followed his orders, he would have been able to walk into Magnus' room, lock manacles on him, and dragged him back to Terra to explain himself, which would have resulted in a far more sure opportunity to pass on his information. Obviously, Magnus had worked out Russ was coming to murder him instead of drag him back, and his plan was effectively to shut down all defenses to make it easy so that Russ wouldn't take as many losses and thus the Space Wolves would be in a better position to aid against Horus. Magnus underestimated Russ' ability to provoke him and overestimated his own ability to remain stoic in the face of extreme provocation. Additionally, there was the, at the time unprescidented, issue of an Astartes, in this case Ahriman and those he convinced to follow him, disobeying his Primarch and going out to fight the Space Wolves and defend Prospero against Magnus' orders, which also screwed up Magnus' plan to leave the Space Wolves intact. Basically, there was a lot of shit that happened that Magnus had no way of foreseeing that ensured no matter what he tried, it would have been the wrong move. Because the literal god of secrets and plots was directly intervening on the regular with everything Magnus did.

[@ten_of_diamonds7575]

Magnus looks at xenos titans and instead of ordering reinforcements just grows to a similar size and punches them

[@CannibalLecter]

Imo: Magnus was the guy who was dealt a shit hand , did his best, and regardless of his best efforts and intentions, was mistrusted and pushed into an even worse position. To me and from my perspective, he was the most humanizing primarch. He did some things wrong, but I can say that before he fell to tzeench, "Magnus, did nothing unforgivable." Of all the primarchs, i still wish he was redeemable.

[@broxim9668]

After this book 30k Magnus is also deeply humbled and humiliated by his guilt

[@potatius6421]

Jesus christ I’m magnus. I’m drunk, and it’s monday. I recognized myself in the description given. I should change my ways.

[@tticd]

I'm a tyranid guy, myself, but Magnus, if I ever built yet another army, he'd probably be leading it. He just seemed, unlike the other corrupted Primarchs, to be screwed into it by the Emprah himself.

[@commanderbacara225]

Ahriman said that "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance". The polar opposite of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge. And that is why the Thousand Sons were flawed and lost to the Ruinous Powers.

[@commanderbacara225]

The illusion of knowledge is the perceived notion that you understand something when in fact you are barely scraping the surface of what you're dealing with.

[@itssupermandoe2434]

Magnus is the good dude who tzeentch chose to mess with from the jump (and frankly probably milenia before the jump too)

[@MrStephenlederle]

I didn't like Guiliman until I read Dark Imperium and The Plague War. He's quite human and his position is an impossible one. Damn it! I think I like the Ultramarines now!

[@kimonskretas5610]

totally agree with the fact that most traitor primarchs have way more interesting storylines than the loyalists , the whole fall from grace that most face gives much more depth to their characters. Loyalists always come out way more blunt and way less humane.

[@crypto1223]

Magnus should’ve sent himself and his legion directly to Terra. His father wouldn’t allow them to die there. He’d be in a megaton of trouble. But at least he wouldn’t have been sucked into the Warp and than splintered into millions of soul shards spread across the vast Warp.

[@thepizzaeater6677]

Who is your least favorite Primarch?

[@jooshjooshministhetics8048]

Ahriman was fighting against Othere Wyrdmake :)

[@01oo011]

What’s that saying about the road to hell?

[@LCliffhanger]

finally a primarch that doesn't have crippling issues

[@MegaCuddlesworth]

Magnus' flaw was that he believed that he was ALWAYS right. He was right at Nicaea. He was right about trying to stop Horus. He was right about warning the Emperor. He was right about allowing Russ to destroy his legion. He was right about giving his legion to Tzeentch. He was absolutely confident that he was making the right decision in all of these cases, all while intelligent and capable people were telling him otherwise, right up to his own damnation.

[@YouthRightsRadical]

Mind you, he only actually started being wrong when he decided to not murder Leman Russ while he was still in orbit. He had very little experience with being wrong about things, so it took him a while to get the hang of it. Being consistently wrong about literally everything after that point has presumably given him a great deal of experience in the time since.

[@pharoahman475]

Sho is your least favorite traitor?

[@captainl-ron4068]

The Emperor should have taken Magnus to Terra with him after Ullanor.

[@thcdreams654]

Hey man first off love the videos and your analysis and conversational style of presentation. I truly believe the fall of Lorgar, Horus, and the errors of the Emperor all are routed in the creation of his sons while neglecting the role of a mother figure. He created the Primarchs as tools, and as seen with his later conversation with Guilliman, allowed his sons to call themselves his progeny for their sake and not really out of fatherly instinct. Their faults were reinforced by his seemingly fleeting compassion and more commonly his callousness towards their inherent flaws (perhaps out of his inability to see the same flaws in himself). I get 40k has the grim dark coldness and loneliness to the extreme, but do you think perhaps a loving and understanding mother like figure would have allowed the primarchs to accept their own flaws, like only a mother could of her sons, and therefore allow some of those who fell to address those personal faults before they were exploited by Chaos? Just a fun idea or theory. Thanks again for the videos and I look forward to more insightful topics like this videos' in the future.

[@Lamthesavender]

So hes basically the emperors minime?

[@ofmon7773]

I give off the Same vibe as magnes

[@derekscanlan4641]

magnus's story is similar to the real life story of Hypatia of alexandria. she was a philosopher/teacher/scientist in egypt during the late roman empire who stood in defiance of the rising christian cults who had attempted to discredit her and her teachings for political motivations eventually they lynch mobbed her and killed her in a pretty nasty way I love Magnus' story. it's essentially a tragedy (in literary terms). He is a character who is truly noble at heart, but who has well-defined character flaws that eventually lead to his downfall. Interestingly, despite these flaws, he acts in a far more noble manner than all the other characters in his story; *Russ is a violent man, who lets himself be fooled into destroying a peaceful world and a loyal legion just for the thrill of battle *Mortarion is a backward, superstitious fool who is comfortable in his ignorance *The emperor is far more arrogant than magnus. he insists on allowing himself an exception to the rules of the council of nicaea, whilst banning psychers throughout all the legions. then does not even trust magnus with his plans (even though he plans for magnus to be the one that will sit on the golden throne). It's interesting that, had he trusted magnus with his plans, the emperor might well have survived the heresy. at the very least, he would still have had magnus and the thousand sons as loyalist

[@Muphesto17]

Warning this video contains course language, sexuality in the form of nipple horns, and heresy. Viewer discretion is advised.

[@rustkarl]

Magnus ranks among the top. Like Angron he’s a tragic character, but he tried to be the hero rather than always being forced to be an animal

[@theinfamoust4670]

Magnus fell to chaos the minute he offered his legion and himself to the power of the warp Gods. I will say that he was in an impossible situation, what with the flesh change. His legion was dying and should have died, he sold his soul to save his sons but that transaction came to a head when he crashed into the Webway and undid the work of the Emperor. He did all the right things for all the wrong reasons, the poor guy never had a chance and for that I can empathize with his plight.

[@GreatWolf1987]

Unfortunately, the road to hell (or the Eye of Terror in this case) is often paved with good intentions.

[@Bonekraka]

lol queen reference :)

[@solus4785]

Can we get who your favourite loyalist primarch is

[@NewGuy2534]

For me, I love Magnus because he truly believed he was doing something right but doing it all wrong.

[@scientistsupreme5211]

I feel Magnus wasn't arrogant just desperately ignorant he wanted to know more but no one would or could answer his questions so he grew arrogant because he thought the lack of answers meant he was always right.

[@Venneroth]

Magnus did a lot wrong. He didn’t know the score. He was his father’s son, utterly convinced that he knew best and others should just SEE that. At the same time, he didn’t consider that Big E might know even more. In the end, all his work came to disaster because he refused to consider that he might be missing something important about the situation at hand. He had good intentions, but so what? He was still an unwise man who cause incalculable harm through his hubris.

[@freelancerf-14d46]

Three times three, the pesedjet of ancient gods, the Occidental orders of angels and the nine cosmic spheres of the forgotten gods. P.S The Rune Priest's name is Ohthere Wyrdmake.

[@adamcrane4587]

I rather like Magnus myself, and like my stories in 40k or 30k, his is a tragic story. For me his flaw was twofold. First his approach to the warp and knowledge was one of disrespect. He admired the power of the warp, sure, but i never got the impression he respected the dangers it presented, or maybe he just believed that he was immune to those dangers. In contrast the space wolf rune priest treat the warp or the 'wryd' with fear. His second flaw is kinda tied into this. Magnus is intelligent, and knowledge, but seems to mistake these traits for wisdom. Like you say he considers himself too knowledgeable, and too intelligent, to ever be beneath someone. He even seems to regard the Emperor as just his equal. So both are kinda manifestations of arrogance, so i guess its just the one flaw. Its seems so tragic to read thousand sons and watch as all his good intentions turn to dust.

[@Tyro_]

Man it’s almost like they’re trying to never make a good 40k game, Badass Magnus the red video and I get a weak iPhone game ad 😂 Lost Crusade? Cant lose what you never had Boggles my mind Another great video tho!