major limitations of ableton push 3?

[@Taetro]

update! re: Device Lock on Standalone! I'm working on a new project which I started on Live (desktop) and locked a device to push in controller mode. When transferring this project to Push for standalone performance, the Locked device remains "locked" no idea why it works on this new projects vs the project featured in this video. The only difference I can think of is the new project originated on desktop, while the project in this video originated on push standalone 🤷🏻‍♂ there is also 0 mention of Device Lock in the Push 3 Manual online currently.

[@kittensinkmusic]

i was just now looking for that in the manual because i need this feature, too, and found nothing. i know how to lock a device in ableton, but is it possible do it from the push? or to switch which device is being locked down on the fly? i chose the controller push because i couldn't think of a use case where my computer would be somewhere else. i'm relieved but not surprised to hear the non-standalone has some advantages.

[@qwertySnowy]

How do u lock it in ableton?

[@kittensinkmusic]

​@@qwertySnowy right click on device title bar and you will see "Lock to push 3." (push must be connected and on or you will not see this option.)

[@qwertySnowy]

@@kittensinkmusic great thanks and this doesn't work in stand alone? Hope they fix it

[@kittensinkmusic]

@@qwertySnowy we'll see what happens. if you lock a device in ableton on your desktop it will be locked on push, but you can't lock/unlock on the push . . . yet. it would be nice to control w/o having to go to your computer; also during performance i will want the ability to choose to lock different devices.

[@dustyaudio]

I appreciate you digging in to the process of building this, and I really appreciate you highlighting some of the limitations you came across and sharing your solutions. Definitely inspired a few 🤔🤔🤔 for me

[@Taetro]

yeah, I kind of went on a whole journey trying to make an easy, compact standalone setup - with every configuration I went through, there were just TOO many limitations and I found myself yearning for the Live workflow of course. So I ended up back on push. Added a few more gear pieces and it worked well, but I hope they'll make some updates so I can do everything you see here using JUST push

[@MilesKvndra]

Great points and totally with you on the jumping to tracks when launching a clip. This is one of the main reason why I still have my laptop when playing live as in the Software you can trigger clips while staying on the master channel. I don’t get why this isn’t an option on the Push SA

[@billpayer3745]

I think Ableton is watching your videos closely Taetro. It looks like the Live 12.1 betas have a lot of your issues covered. It'll be fascinating to revist this video once 12.1 has been released.

[@jamesaita]

So agree!!!! I have sent a bunch of those feedback items to Ableton as part of their HW beta group. Hope they prioritize.

[@Taetro]

yeah I just feel like these are very basic items that shouldn’t really require user feedback.

[@DamianDodd]

Good work. I started my new music journey with a used Push 3, added a Roland Gaia2, a used OP1 and OPZ and now I'm looking at audio interfaces with adat to expand connectivity. I do want rig up something to play live. Eyeing used Launch Controls but also seeing what 12.1 brings.

[@djellisdee]

Great overview and breakdown of what Push 3 does/doesn't do. Thanks for this

[@TechTronix01]

I love the feedback trick. very cool

[@Taetro]

thank you for watching!

[@just.a.dutchguy]

@taetro the waiting is over.....Push 2.1b1 added this feature : 'Select on Clip Launch:Choose whether or not you would like Push to select the track of the clips that you launch automatically.'

[@Taetro]

AHHHHHH!!!!

[@Dichotomos]

Thanks for making this, I use mu P3S alot in both configurations, live and in production, your insights are great, I would like more of these P3S videos!

[@Taetro]

Good to know! I’ll bring more soon!

[@AllTheBufos]

You sum it up pretty well in describing Push 3 as more for production than performance. I bought it for livelooping performances, and there are some major workflow deficiencies: * There's no fast way to record arm a new track and start recording. In session mode, you have to hold the record button and an arm-track button simultaneously; unless you have massive hands, this will take both hands, so then you have to stop playing your instrument. * Same issue for stopping a record-armed track; you have to hold the stop button and the track button, so it's a two-hand operation. * The issues around locking devices you noted; if I want to trigger a new track and immediately change an effect on the current track; whoops, the new track is selected, and instead I've changed some random parameter on the new track. * The LED lights are almost illegibly dim in daylight. Some people say Push 3 will revolutionize busking, but unless you only busk at night, it's kind of hard to use outside. It's a decent device, but if you see someone like Rachel Collier showing off Push for livelooping, they still need additional peripherals to make it work well.

[@jixal]

Why don't you just arm all your tracks at once? Ctrl click on the icon it will allow you to do multiple at the same time.

[@pommedapi3847]

you can use a foot pedal to start recording if I am not wrong what makes it way more handy when you are playing an instrument. All tracked armed could be an answer, select track (one hand) and foot pedal to start the recording. I don´t like the buttons on push 3, they should have made them goign outwards and not inwards, and way more easy to press. it was an ableton choice to make them so hard to press to not press the wrong button in performance mode I suppose.

[@sjpachica3]

Love your honesty. You show the good and bad and neutral from your perspective. Would love to see you mess with the Akai Force as a standalone performance and production unit, and give your perspective.. the good and bad and neutral.

[@Taetro]

that's the reality! there's good and bad. I've had setups that I LOVE that have also wanted me to tear my hair out!

[@logiebearsb]

Great to see your workflow, I would love the extra features to standalone. I al loving the push3 for live performances.

[@estevancarlos]

Using the term "symbiosis" is a perfect way to describe it. I don't think the marketing makes that extremely evident.

[@Taetro]

yeah you're right. They do though refer to it often as an instrument, and I think that is pretty accurate

[@yucafries7681]

Standalone, the push 3 is severely limited as both a production and performance tool. However there is a great control app to adjust and save custom settings. It’s called Live

[@Taetro]

Re: Live as the control app - I mentioned this in the video! It’s definitely not severely limited from a production perspective but needs more updates to reach its full potential

[@ParnasoCultural]

I think APC40 MKII and Midi Fighter Twister will give you all you need. The funny thing is these two devices are close to 10 years old lol

[@Taetro]

those are great performance tools to pair with a laptop but my ultimate goal is to have a single standalone device that does everything I need. Push is ALMOST there

[@AaronAlso]

Push 3 is the best controller specifically for Ableton Live, bar none - hands down. Push 3 is not the best standalone device on the market, although it is certainly on the short list. Top suggestion buy Push 3 controller. It can be upgraded to standalone later if/when updates are made to suit your fancy.

[@jasonfnorth]

Wow so great to see how others setup gear... thx man 👊

[@danktle]

Mad thank you for telling the truth about this machine. There is so much more it could do, and it seems to be locked to factory setups. ClyphX alone on this thing would make it start doing all the things we wish it could do...

[@emilianoibarra3537]

on session view can you have a track loaded with an instrument/device/synth and have the clips below being the same instrument/device/synth but with different parameters? so it makes a different sound, and sequence the midi notes with the oxi one

[@foreverunknown23]

I think there is a workaround to lock the push screen. From software you can right-click a device's title bar, and select "lock to Control Surface X". This way the Push screen remains locked.

[@Taetro]

This works in controller mode, not in standalone

[@BassFunMusic]

Awesome BRO♥♪

[@Taetro]

Thanks 🔥

[@JakeHaldenVangMusic]

I’ve seen a lot of people talking about updates that would be great and “for now it can’t blank” on every video. Has the push 3 actually gotten any firmware updates??

[@MS7.7]

APC40 mk2 is the answer to all Push performance problems. Dedicated mute/solo/arm/track select buttons and clip launching so you can keep the sequencer on the push. You should make 3 tier rack push on top then APC then launchcontrol.

[@MS7.7]

Also get a foldable food tray or wooden riser for your stands so you don't bend even when sitting on the couch.

[@Taetro]

the apc40 is great! I should try out this combo. I do generally want to keep things as compact as possible and those two create quite a bulky pair

[@MS7.7]

@@Taetro i understand the mental war between clean minimalist setup vs functionality. Unfortunately the perfect live jam device doesn't exist, especially with ableton. Certain devices "clips" perfectly together like lego (pun intended). Suddenly your brain will say oh thats what was missing,

[@VentureNW]

Good info, thank you! For me, I am not interested in the standalone side of Push, as I do all my work on my computer. I am more looking for something that provides better control and helps my workflow. I have been on the fence on this, since it came out, and have been leaning more towards a keyboard controller upgrade. I had even put an Akai APC64 in my cart and then paused. I own a Nektar Aura, that really only sees any use when I am creating percussion and a NI A49 controller (with a terrible screen and the common led pixel issue from being on all the time). I was sadly disappointed in the new NI Kontakt MK3, which delves deeper into the NI ecosystem. For now, waiting to see what Arturia do with the non-essentials Keylab upgrade or maybe Novation puts out a new SL MKIV, this year? I lean towards keyboard controllers, over pads, as I am a keyboard player. For me, biggest selling point, with my eyes - big color screens, nice keybed, and a must have - Poly AT. I even thought about getting a Hydrasynth Deluxe, as I can create a midi/audio track workflow, pretty easily, in Live, and can still control other soft synths, just won't have the actual DAW control. I own a couple of other vintage synths, that I do use currently, just this way.

[@Taetro]

If you’re not looking for standalone, the APC40 is a great controller and then you just need a keyboard for notes! Or APC64 if you don’t mind touch strips and mode switching

[@VentureNW]

@@Taetro Thanks. I wish someone made the perfect controller keyboard. Haha. Also thought about getting an Icon for Live and Bitwig controls. Ah the toys

[@jamesaita]

Interested to know more about this project you have going - are you planning to keep just the 8 tracks? Does that mean you’re limiting your devices to just 8 (or less) or are you grouping or using racks/chain selectors? Trying to figure out a multi-song performance workflow that works and is as simple as possible.

[@xselfcreative]

By long pressing the solo or mute button can make the track buttons arm, and they will turn to solo or mute buttons actually. That must be an easy update. 🤷‍♂️

[@remyvegamedia]

Such an interesting display unexpected limitations. I'm not looking for a performance device for standalone, so I'm pretty torn right now. Since I'm a keys player before anything, I'm actually really tempted to get the MPC Key 37 as a standalone tool. I don't need to produce the entirety of a track in standalone, but I do need keys haha. Push 3 to me has such a superior workflow for building songs over MPC, but the price and need for a midi controller for keys makes the Key 37 much more appealing 🤷🏻‍♂️ But maaaaan do I love session view. There really is no do-it-all device at this point. So much stuff totally sucks about MPC, but when I try not to rely on it for doing the entire arrangement and mixing I feel like I can use it.

[@Taetro]

the whole reason I always come back to push is because it's got that beautiful ableton live intuitive workflow. Similar to you, I find it really hard to produce in the MPC workflow. Even though it's pricier - push + keyboard would be my recommendation. You can save money with the MPC but if you already know that workflow doesn't work for you...you saved more money to make less music I guess. Despite the limitations I point out here, it is a great production / idea creation tool and COMPANION to Live

[@remyvegamedia]

@@Taetro You make great points. Thanks for you input on that, man it actually really helps for taking things into consideration. Luckily for me, I've got a friend willing to let me borrow his MPC One and I'm gonna run it with a midi controller to see if I can reconsider it before spending any money. I'm open to it, but I do love me some Ableton, man haha. The only way I can see MPC working is if I use it for basic song sketching away from the DAW that I migrate back in. I'll see how it goes! Thanks again!

[@hvhvgitaar]

I am torn between MPC Key 37 and Ableton/Push for similar reasons. Perhaps the AKAI Force is the best fit. It has an ableton like clip based workflow but also real song arrangement, all of it in standalone. Currently I use Maschine which in my view has the best workflow overall but unfortunately it looks like that platform is reaching end of life since there has been no investment in functionality for a few years now…

[@remyvegamedia]

@@hvhvgitaar I would consider the Force, but I got rid of it because you can't do odd time signatures. If that's not something that bothers you, it might be a good option. Overall, though, I think Push 3 has the most advanced offerings. I'm giving the MPC a try right now because ultimately if the MPC software doesn't work out for me, I'm not gonna go with the Key 37. I didn't like the MPC when trying to use it as a studio companion. Maybe for just getting basic ideas, but I definitely don't see it being as capable of developing ideas as efficiently as a clip/scene workflow.

[@CrankyGinger]

Great video! What stand are you using for the Push 3? Thanks!

[@Taetro]

mentioned in the video & listed in the description!

[@GarthVader666]

Hey, question for anybody with a Push 3 in front of them - how does your big jog wheel feel? I know it's supposed to move left and right, but it supposed to have a bit of play up and down? Also, are you able to select options by pressing on the bottom edge of the wheel? I can only select using the centre, left, right or top of the wheel, but not the bottom.

[@el_dani]

Thanks for the videos and insights. I just ask myself IS ABLETON LISTENING? are they working on improvements / workflow adjustements? they aren't the smallest company and have people like Cenk, I expect more from Push 3 standalone

[@Taetro]

Tbh I ask myself the same question…….😶

[@apollyon7617]

Hey mr taetro, I remember you from the launchkey 2 instructional vids, so in a way you were there at the beginning of my music journey. I watched a video of your review of Ableton 12 and you were a bit upset to the point of suggesting moving to a new DAW but I was thinking that the common thread or concensus about ableton was that it was "not a full fledged DAW". I feel the last 2 iterations of Ableton were an attempt at filling those gaps and answering those criticisms to make it a more complete software. I'm curious about what limitations you feel there are about the LIVE aspect of ableton and what you wanted to see improved or added in that regard. I'm by no means a professional, yet. So your perspective might give me some insight as to what may be missing so I can learn more.

[@apollyon7617]

Sorry if you've answered this extensively before. I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly

[@Taetro]

Live has been a fully fledged DAW for quite some time, there’s no doubt about that. And of course it’s one of the more powerful daws for live performance specifically but if you watch my video on the Live 12 announcement, you can see my thoughts on how I think performance feature have essentially been abandoned by the proper Ableton development team. Ultimately, I wouldn’t spend much time pondering this, I’d just go with what makes making music feel natural to you. I spend time on this so I can make these commentary videos and hopefully push the field forward, and hear from folks like you about what’s important! I hope to amplify that. But yeah as a musician yourself, if you don’t need to get caught up in these DAW wars style conversations, don’t let it occupy too much of your time.

[@DarrenHale]

I’m on the beta testing for the Push 3 and I believe that the issues and limitations will all be sorted over time. Ableton won’t be replacing this Push for a very long time and with the ability to replace and upgrade the internals they are not constrained on the hardware side either. It’s a powerful instrument and I love the fact you can connect other devices to give you endless creative opportunities as well. 🤘

[@maikvanrossum]

I find this kind of strange… so it’s okay that manufacturers release incomplete products, because they’re not planning to replace them very soon so there’s enough time to sort things out over time…? Where customers blame other users if they have the same expectations towards the company when it comes to the implementation of their wishes…! Don’t get me wrong here, I do love Ableton and the quality of their products, but I don’t like this mindset when doing business.

[@redxheartxshapex]

Great stuff! Does your push headphone output makes any white noise, like a humming noise? Thanks

[@Taetro]

thanks ! I haven’t had any noise issues on the headphone out. Maybe if I pushed it all the way? But not a problem. My performance was recorded via the headphone out

[@RSTypeContent]

not sure whats happening but i like what im seeing

[@Taetro]

hahah I'm glad you can enjoy it :)

[@ryanhursh6322]

Worst thing about the Push 3 for me are the buttons, they are way too stiff and require too much force. I wanna zip around like on an Elektron, easy to press buttons with lots of travel. That’s makes them easy to press but also helps avoid accidents. Now I’m not much of a live performer. So I can deal, but I don’t enjoy. I’m with you on the arming as well, great idea with the launch kontrol

[@Taetro]

I agree with this as well, the original push had raised clicky buttons that I much preferred!

[@rullon182]

So ¿is it better push 2 with a laptop?

[@Taetro]

You should check the latest updates for Push 12.1 since they’ve addressed many of these issues!

[@elijahconnorcole5497]

My takeaway is that standalone is 85 percent. You need the tether for the other 15...

[@Taetro]

I think that’s a fair assessment

[@LordHando]

I feel like anyone can make good music on anything -2024

[@ZuvielDrama]

This is awesome. 😊

[@eltechnica]

EXCEPT FOR PUSH 3 FTW!!!!!!!!

[@igotbit9454]

Prolly just gonna go with the controller version of this

[@Taetro]

not a bad option at all - then later you can upgrade to standalone if you want!

[@darioesposito5695]

Try electric distortion native ableton audio preset effect for in realtime vocal pitch effect :)

[@eclecticaro]

You will have Ableton Vocal tuning with Live 13 for mere $300 upgrade. New feature = new version of Live.

[@Taetro]

It’s not always the case but you may be right

[@roman2374]

If you like potis consider checking out the faderfox range :)

[@Taetro]

will do !

[@nukenoly8751]

Love and hate the Push 3. Using Logic 11 now but again I own/use all the DAWs

[@adamelfersmusic]

Logic user here. Curious what is the best way to do live looping + playing and launching clips in logic?

[@VEFICO]

Taetro

[@Taetro]

🫰🏻🫰🏻🫰🏻

[@bloopbleepnothinghere]

Biggest gripe is it goddam switching to the track when I launch a clip. It is impossible to perform that way. I wanna launch a clip while I am tweaking a filter, or whatever. I am quite capable of switching to a track when I want to. Why Ableton??? The beta feedback is full of people begging for this functionality.

[@treschlet]

wait, really? to me this is the only point to have a clip-based sequencer as opposed to a linear workflow like the MPC. I guess I'm not getting a push or ableton then

[@bloopbleepnothinghere]

@@treschlet I've been enjoying composition, sound design, and all that on it, but strangely performing is one thing it doesn't do as well as it could. I've been using mine for a year and I'm starting to think maybe I'll sell it. If they had a roadmap for software updates I'd be more inclined to stick with it, but so far there isn't. I really want a one device to rule them all solution and maybe this isn't it after all. I tend to shelf a synth I am not having fun on anymore, and then if it's not been used for a year I consider selling it. It's still on my desk though, but the TR8s and Elektrons are back out and slowly nudging it off.

[@realsmokeyyy]

Bro theres a setting called "select on launch". Turn it off and there u go

[@4UDIOTAPE]

As at least one other person pointed out in a comment here, an update recently made this an option - here, I quote the other comment: "Push 2.1b1 added this feature : 'Select on Clip Launch:Choose whether or not you would like Push to select the track of the clips that you launch automatically.'" :D Should fix your issue, right?

[@err_rawr]

Push is a unique standalone device in that it’s largely useless for a performance if you don’t also use it with your computer (for setup). 😅 Was definitely a surprise to me and why I never use it.

[@estevancarlos]

It's almost like we need a different term for it. The Push 3 is like a device you use to supplement Live or when you temporarily don't have access to your computer.

[@Taetro]

well I think based on my performance it's definitely not largely useless. I think it's very useful and there's a reason I used push instead of other gear - but some simple changes could greatly improve it for performance

[@err_rawr]

@@Taetro largely useless without leaning on your computer for setup. End of the day it’s up to the person. But, for me I just don’t enjoy working on something with the Push 3 when it is just standalone. I don’t want to be using my computer to support me in working on my performance projects I just feel like they could have thought a bit more about the workflow.

[@WDSCRNRAD]

Hey Taetro! I’ve asked everywhere, and Your the only person I think could help. I'm guessing this has been asked before! But what I'm trying to do is Live Inprov. I've got the sustain pedal set to the Session record button. But my question is this! Just say l've got a loop working perfect, Ideally when I press my foot switch again, l'd like it to record to the empty slot below it! But at the moment, it just starts overdubs on that track? Is there anyway it can move to the slot below? I've downloaded this from a dude on M4L, and it seems to highlight the next available clip, but when I press the foot switch, it just overdubs onto the same clip. Hope this makes sense

[@LyroLife]

Almost bought the push 3. I am so happy I decided against it. Instead I got the new MacBook Air 15 inch M3 for the same price 😂

[@toti-pals]

Pound for pound best controller for ablo, launch control

[@Bronwyn031]

Ableton engineers feverishly taking notes ... oh, who am I kidding?

[@MarianoPerez]

Wow, those are serious and annoying limitations for $2k. Something as simple as not being able to interchange two tracks in stand alone is a no go. Maybe theyll fix these things in the future. Ill look at push 3 in the future.

[@Taetro]

Really hoping for an update!

[@everydaymilk_]

I feel Ableton is torn between focusing on producing vs. performance. I think Live started out being a Live performance DAW, but seems like they now want to compete with the other production focused DAWs. I feel all the major advancements Ableton has made in Live and their hardware have been more focused on production. Maybe they found the market for live performance isn't as lucrative as music production.

[@EightsEverywhere]

since live 8 it's been pretty balanced better production and performance i don't know about when they first started but that was a long time ago. They're been a leader at both for a long time. not like they recently decided to try and be better for production

[@chromeangel]

Check out the latest updates you may be able to eliminate the Roland now. And copying/moving Clips is now a thing

[@HalsSystem]

You are missing the point on your " symbiosis " hypothesis. Push 3 is amazing because you can start an idea on the Push and then refine it in Abelton live, or later export it to Protools or Logic. !! I think push is way more useful than an MPC. Have you tried to get MIDI files from an Elecktron Machine or and MPC ? Nightmare !!

[@Taetro]

definitely MILES ahead in terms of workflow compared to the MPC

[@manuelgonzales6483]

🎉

[@Taetro]

🫡

[@manuelgonzales6483]

Just got a Launchpad Pro MK3 and the Launch control XL 😢. I'm so lost. 😢😮

[@Taetro]

It’s a power combo! Don’t get discouraged too easily. Take it slow!

[@WesWookBeats]

Push 3 owner. I feel like a beta tester most days 😢

[@relative_vie]

more reason not to get push 3 yet…

[@PLA.net-DANTE]

Hmm.. Then I'll stick to my circuit tracks as my synth Centerpiece and buy other stuff, instead..