Make Cupels for Gold/Lead Separation

Be a twit~Follow on twitter
/ m3sca1
Forming wetted bone ash (synthetic) into crucibles for separating gold silver and other platinum group metals from lead.

[@dynomania]

Nice work, A metallurgist friend of mine used to add PVA glue to his mix so it would hold together

[@kosmow2013]

Always add the powder to the water because of the surface tension and it won't be lumpy.

[@m3sca1]

good tip

[@RedDogForge]

brilliant! thanks man!

[@omnigar9611]

If you put a collar of some sort on your pestel you can make a cleaner line at the top of the cup. not important, just the fabricator in me talking.

[@OgMandin0]

Fond of gold coins. Never found nuggets to smelt. Gold bullion ownership made illegal 1937-1971 in US. Some moved to Australia because of it. =You always pursue interesting topics!

[@m3sca1]

yeah i really am keen to see the cupel do its thing, fascinating separation method!

[@1hardman161]

can I do this with real bone's? They are very dry from being outside. Break and grind to a powder, roast to be even drier, mix with portland cement.

[@m3sca1]

migel reyas yes I also came across a recipe that used rice flour and bone.

[@NOBOX7]

ROFL , well well well , here i am searching for a DIY cupel . think ill give this guy a try . You cam up at the top of search old friend

[@ianthescientist8827]

Great video but what is that thing you put the powder in to press it?

[@m3sca1]

it was all just junk around the shed. the brass bit to make the cup from a fire poker...tubing and other bits were from some busted desk clamp thing. it could be plastic conduit or anything that is smooth

[@handleismyhandle]

I understand lead can be used as a solvent to dissolve gold, but can zinc be used instead? In the Parkes process, apparently zinc is added to draw silver and gold out of lead, so why is lead used in fire assays?

[@m3sca1]

yes other metals are used for different problems in cupelling.

[@handleismyhandle]

I was wondering about the idea of putting your material for extraction in a bottle and pulling a vacuum on it before heating the lead to prevent oxidation. Maybe put the black sands or whatever in a stainless steel bottle, pump out the air and seal it before heating. I wouldn't want to pull a vacuum over the molten lead because it would probably increase the amount of vapours given off. I was concerned about the toxicity of lead vapors, but apparently very little is given off at reasonable temperatures. Does the lead need to be above a certain temperature for good extraction, or does it just have to be liquid?

[@m3sca1]

Blitherer Masterman so initially the lead is in an oxide form and reduces back to metal because of things like burning rice flour and such reducing agents that would be mixed dry with the ground up ore. As it turns back to metal it percolates down through the powder taking anything that dissolves in hot lead. The cupelling part is when the lead is put in the bone ash crucible and burnt until no more of the frosty looking oxides can be seen rollong on the surface of the bead. There are vacuum chamber machines for casting precious metals that operate at vacuum to reduce oxides formed so it can be done and i suspect that it would cook off a lot quicker but I don't have any more experience with such things. Look up some of the old fire assay books.

[@handleismyhandle]

Ok, so the idea with the litharge is to refine the lead and get the other metals along with it. I was wondering if you could use the lead almost like mercury in a vacuum. Will have to try an experiment I guess.

[@m3sca1]

Blitherer Masterman yeah i don't see why not. It is gonna pull the PM's into it even without the vac but i guess your gonna get way less oxide on your lead surface

[@patrickschachtner8062]

Where do you source your synthetic bone ash?

[@m3sca1]

Ceramics supplier. Gets put in glazes i believe.

[@dynomania]

It's also sold as Magnesium Oxide as a food supplement for stock. Especially Horses for stomach issues.

[@sidalisaid12]

Can you melt brass in that crucible what is the highest temperature he can resist plz

[@m3sca1]

no they are for cupelling gold and PMGs and the base metals will oxidise and move into the bone ash, leaving only the precious behind. you need a graphite crucible

[@maximilienrobespierrre1281]

Hi Sir what is the product of 00:39 u used?

[@m3sca1]

Water with bone ash

[@calonmayat7986]

Brother what use material?

[@m3sca1]

sythetic bone ash

[@electro1622]

you can just use refractory cement that you get for a pizza oven or just come over and I'll give you some phosphate bonded investment, same stuff I made my crucible from...and it sets in 1/2 an hour, not 2 weeks..lol.

[@m3sca1]

What is this phosphate bonded investment you speak of? Cupel needs to be bone ash which is about 55.82% calcium oxide, 42.39% phosphorus pentoxide.

[@electro1622]

it's a refractory material ( mold material) with mono ammonium phosphate as a binder. The rest of the material is quartz and crystobalite, commonly used for high temperature casting.

[@m3sca1]

electro1622 would it absorb lead?

[@electro1622]

probably not but I'm not sure about that.

[@m3sca1]

electro1622 i was just doing some further readingon the subject of cupellation and the wiki entry says the crucible needs to be calcareous because lead reacts with silica (clay compounds) to form viscous lead silicate that prevents the needed absorption of litharge, so that investment you mentioned would work well for quick crucibles but won't work for lead absorption. Is it costly material?

[@1hardman161]

I don't know if you know the answer. Ok my stuff was assayed, yes gold and they gave me a flux mix to use. I bought cupel's, ran out when a guy a know said use dry portland cement. So I did, no gold. Did the home made dry portland cement beside's absorbing the lead did it also absorb my gold. Because according to assay I should of had a few grams and I ended up with a BB. Thanks

[@m3sca1]

migel reyas have you reached out to Owltech ?

[@1hardman161]

yes he is the 1 who said use portland cement. I know I have gold but after using his idea of cupel nothing

[@m3sca1]

you said you got a BB? Did you tell him about the other stuff in your alloy? I think you should attempt parting with acid.

[@1hardman161]

He was helping then disappeared. I also have sulfides with micro gold. I tried acids first, the Lab said wont work because of the sulfur. Need to smelt with lead, cupel the lead then AR. Right now I have con's soaking in peroxide. To supposedly remove some sulfur. If I put stuff in AR, then stannous is black but no drop because of sulfur. I am trying the peroxide to remove then AR. Thanks

[@m3sca1]

migel reyas buy an ozone device and bubble through sludge. It will knock your sulfides out and make the PMGs more available. See my latest video. I just received one from China.

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

Where did you get your bone ash from? Australia?

[@m3sca1]

yep ceramics and pottery supplier🤓👌

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

@@m3sca1 did you get it online?

[@m3sca1]

@@mrgreenswelding2853 yes i ordered through a website, i dont recall the company sorry. there wasnt many ceramics suppliers when i went seearching online and i recall using one of the 3 that had a website and found it in glaze ingredients i think

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

@@m3sca1 ok thanks, I will Google it.

[@m3sca1]

it was sold as synthetic bone ash

[@user-wx8rw4qe5f]

Can I have the names of the materials in the video?

[@m3sca1]

synthetic bone ash. water.

[@hossamslime9354]

White cement is OK or not

[@m3sca1]

Not sure. Try it on lead that is empty of gold. If it all soaks in you should be good.

[@hossamslime9354]

@@m3sca1 I am need melting gold and silver

[@hossamslime9354]

How can make crucible for melting gold and silver

[@ANCIENTASTRONAUT411]

Hey bone ash bahahha i had too

[@rachidsousi5164]

Please talked Arabic