Make Music Exciting Again!

[@MarkHysteria]

I wish to go back to those long forgotten days when tuning 2 steps down to C was considered heavy downtuning.... Now every single new band I hear is just a massively low single note riff that just sound like a drone of noise while the kick drum is the one that provides the groove

[@mlsoundlab]

The problem with this is that all the bands start to sound the same apart from the vocalist while Nirvana, STP, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains etc. clearly have a different style in the music. Even numetal: Korn, Bizkit, SOAD, Slipknot all had a unique sound.

[@TK96]

From a guitar players point of view it’s these days all about chasing tones what is someone else’s sound rather than discovering their own sound from through process of the chase and not connecting with their instruments always looking on internet new gear to buy.

[@CJ_Wolesz]

Absolutely. I think too many people are scared to experiment with their tone and instead want to sound like everyone else out there.

[@escapegulag4317]

well thats because modern production aims for the best sound, not the most individual sound. Original is not a synonym for good.

[@mlsoundlab]

Kind of has to do with what I said about being a fan of what is in fashion right now rather than doing something new or forgotten. Tuning super low never went out of fashion ever since Korn so that's 30 years now. It also has to do with copying everything else too and not just the tone. Polyriffs, low tuning and same drum sounds. Where is the high tuned snare in 2024?

[@CodyCockyote7046]

​​@@escapegulag4317 thats also why even normies who dont listen to metal prefer raw metal/rock with emotion than quantized drums/guitars with autotuned vocals. Especially in metal. Even non-metalheads can see the difference in a commercial modern metal band and a Grindcore band from the 90s.

[@ShreddingDragon]

I just got up from my computer working on my solo prog metal music, hoping to forge it into something that’s both interesting and entertaining. I think about my own songs cinematically, as series of ”scenes”, instead of verses and choruses etc. I love what you said at 10:26 ❤ Thanks Mikko! It’s true that prog artists could be more experimental these days - it doesn’t mean the music has to have zero rules or sound ugly, or be non-understandable. Just be bold and combine influences tastefully.

[@mlsoundlab]

Thanks buddy! Kind of like if you listen to Rush or Pink Floyd it doesn't sound prog at all anymore because that sound was progressive 50 years ago. The Dream Theater prog sound was progressive 30 years ago. The Periphery prog sound was progressive 15 years ago. Those bands can still make a career with that style but if you want to be progressive I think you need to come up with a new kind of actually progressive sound.

[@nothing-else-m23]

As Glenn would say, every guitar tone of bands now is Celestion Vintage 30s in a Mesa cab

[@mlsoundlab]

I'm part of the problem as far as that is concerned. I think the bigger problem may rather be that "guitar tone" gets more effort put into it than the actual music.

[@althebutterflyaffect]

Also 90s eurobeat/trance/Electronic music gives me some kind of inspiration

[@mlsoundlab]

Electric Callboy actually use that for a lot of inspiration!

[@yllikkiyy]

Hyvää pohdintaa! 🔥

[@mlsoundlab]

Olisi voinut pohtia vaikka 3h videon verran :D

[@akaerik1]

Music goes in waves it gets creative then the marketing guys distill it to the lowest common denominator. It just makes it harder to find the good stuff, but its still out there

[@mlsoundlab]

Definitely a big topic for a short video like this. I would like to believe that innovation is out there with the amount of music being released these days. Needles in a huge haystack?

[@katbert100]

Best thing happened to me this year is I found your channel Mikko and ML sound labs products! Keep it up, great video too, really resonating!

[@mlsoundlab]

Comments like these make my day! ❤

[@Ianos-Music]

I’m so happy that I experienced the 80s. From an innovation point of view rock music was done by 1990. Peak Metallica in the 90s? Really?!! 😂 Your point is valid. Heavy music today is repetitive and the productions are all nearly identical, but stating that the 90s was some kind of golden era is nonsense in my humble opinion.

[@TreyXanthean-c5h]

And Justice for All was pretty much the stopping point. lol

[@sub-jec-tiv]

💯

[@mlsoundlab]

I wasn't alive so I wasn't there so I wouldn't know. 😅 Master of puppets was '86 so you win! The cultural impact of Black Album, Load, Reload was right up there charting on MTV when I was a kid so that's what I was referring to.

[@Ianos-Music]

@@mlsoundlab I suppose we all look to the decade in which we started playing/listening to music as a special time Mikko! I reckon one of the things that set the 80s apart is that even to get a good heavy guitar tone, you had to innovate. The modern multichannel, high-gain amps weren’t there yet. Bands were producing killer aggressive tones by finding creative ways to abuse plexis and 2203s (both excellently recreated by Amped ML Plexi & 800 btw). I like a lot of modern amps but have guitar tones actually gotten ‘better’ since those days? I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♂️ It’s subjective I suppose. 🤔

[@pywidem5823]

The problem is that there are innovators but in today’s age and the algorithms, what already works works and continues to be pushed. I really try to be innovative and I also know many other artists and well, let’s just say we‘d be stoked to even have 100 monthly listeners. It just doesn’t catch on if you’re doing new stuff like it used to, algorithms and streaming services only really allow already big music to be recommended and pushed, same goes for the genre. Back then they were discovered in person, that’s way different as you’re getting it to experience it first hand. Now most people would just skip something that’s not familiar or easy digestible, because discovering something online really allows for that. For example, we have about 400 followers on social media and EVERY SINGLE ONE is one who saw us at one of our concerts. Innovation needs to be experienced that way, not with a click on your device.

[@mlsoundlab]

Labels and connections still play a huge part in making an artist popular. Somehow some artists just get on those playlists with their first release while some artists that have been grinding for years never get picked up. It's definitely not fair to the artist like I said in the video. The labels with connections are of course running a business trying to make money so they'll push whoever they can make profitable for them. Potentially someone who made a bad deal so they can make more profit.... in either case I'd love them to have confidence to push more innovative music forward. All this innovative music from the 90s had to be pushed to us through labels so they definitely took chances back then.

[@JonathanKillstring]

Eh, I'd say that Billie Eilish is pretty innovative. She has a highly unique style that has been extensively copied, so I'd say she's had a pretty big influence. /shrug Tenet was fucking dope. I can't really bring myself to enjoy Falling in Reverse - same as with LostProphets - I can't separate the art from the artist. Thanks for doing this, mate - we definitely need to push each other a bit to see art moving forward. Appreciate you.

[@cameroncorrosive925]

When you say Billie, you mean her brother/ producer.

[@JonathanKillstring]

@@cameroncorrosive925 I mean Finneas too! But her particular breathy whisper style is everywhere now, and it was nowhere before. I think that counts for something. That said, Finneas has a lovely approach to composing these tracks, he comes at it almost like an old-school hip hop guy. Sampled found sounds, etc.

[@mlsoundlab]

Yup that's why I actually mentioned Billie! Then I started thinking about how Britney also had innovative songs and was produced by Max Martin like Finneas and the comparison is very fitting. It's a slippery slope though. Is it making a new sound or making "hits"? Maybe both?

[@JonathanKillstring]

@@mlsoundlab Yeah, there's definitely a point at which things become a formula. Hard for me to criticize - get that money while it's there, I guess! - but like any other industry, once there's a product that's shown to be profitable, you'll have a corporation trying to squeeze every last drop out of it, while changing as little as possible. Two worlds very much at odds with one another.

[@methanedirigible]

Anyone noticed how every single generation (when they reach a certain age) says ‘My era was the _golden age_ of music’. The oldest ones are beginning to die of old age. But now the middle aged millennials are starting to say the same thing. Times change. You had your day. Now it’s someone else’s. As David Cameron said to Tony Blair - ‘You were the future once.’

[@mlsoundlab]

I think I did a good job with case examples. Name 10 artists from the past 5 years who made as big of an impact as the artists I mentioned from 1991-1996. I can mention 10 more from that era.

[@methanedirigible]

@ I understand your point. But when you say ‘had an impact’ - on whom? You? People over 30? Young people? Old people? I’m not trying to have a dig - I’m just observing that ‘it was better in my day’ is a line that’s been repeated from time immemorial.

[@methanedirigible]

Also - in _my_ day, bands like Nirvana, Van Halen - were big news, important, influential etc because the industry _told us_ that’s what we should be listening to. It was a far less democratic process. I mean what else were we gonna do? Find our own music to listen to? How exactly?

[@antonm_]

I always feel that these types of conversations are always skewed towards 1 of 2 perspectives: the songwriter or the listener. When people talk blanket statements like "there is no innovation" or "there is a lot of the same", more often than not, it always is from the perspective of being a listener. However, as a songwriter, no matter how you try to "innovate", you will always be a product of your own taste and experiences. Much of the innovation in songwriting is in bringing in flavors from different genres. To me, something is only "innovative" when it is "novel"; something is only "experimental" when it is "novel". Case in point, the fact that we can tell that a movie is a "Tarantino movie" isn't "experimental" or "innovative" anymore because he already has a formula... AKA a "genre". Granted nobody has fully replicated his style but many others have already dissected and incorporated it into their films. We still love his films because he's not afraid to go 110% in his storytelling; that isn't new, we even expect it from him, but it doesn't make him stagnant. Which I would liken to somebody liking Spiritbox and expecting "cliches" like Evanescence-like singing, metalcore screams, Djent bends, and Gojira scrapes; fans and onlookers still appreciating despite them just sounding like themselves for the past 5 or so years. My point is that, as a songwriter, you shouldn't force "innovation"; "innovation" is always serendipitous to the goal of creating art/delivering a message. It is always perceived after the fact. As a listener, one should just enjoy the genre you like. We live in a time wherein so much music is written and released everyday; if you don't like hyper pop music, then just move on... don't like country? try something else. However, there is always merit in being open and listening to other genres - you never know what inspiration might lie in them. EDIT: "...innovation in djent music is _stuck_" - I don't necessarily agree with that simply because when clear "cliches" arise from an existence of a catalog of an artist or multiple artists, it is basically a "genre" now. Innovating would just mean splintering off of that genre - which creates a new genre the moment the "innovation" becomes cliche. It is just how it is IMHO (especially in Metal and EDM). EDIT 2: "...how is it that we have a genre of music called progressive..." - AFAIK, the term "progressive" as in "Progressive Rock" or "Progressive Metal" refers to the chord progressions and arrangement not being cyclical like in typical pop structured songs. However, I do recognize the point you're trying to make with respect to "stagnation".

[@mlsoundlab]

Good points made! I'm mainly talking about the cultural impact. Nirvana made grunge cool = cultural impact. Arguably post-grunge bands polished that sound but didn't have as big of a cultural impact though they're well known bands. Likewise Periphery made djent cool = cultural impact. Meshuggah had a huge impact here in Scandinavia even before djent. Periphery is already the polished version of that. I don't feel like these later bands did it better than my good buddy Misha did in 2010. My opinion. Current music climate does feel like it rewards "safe decisions" and honestly making metal "heavier" is the safe and IMHO boring option.

[@TreyXanthean-c5h]

i do not necessarily think that mixing genre's together is innovation (sometimes it works tho) because they stand on their own (in most cases) and rightly so. that said i have always hated rap and hiphop and do not need it in anything i listen to as i feel it detracts, nor would i use it in my Music Personally but that's just me (others may do as they wish obviously). mixing things that do not belong together just waters down the Original Art imo (think aerosmith and run-dmc ~shudder) BUT i do agree that things are going in a downward direction or are simply stagnant for quite some time now in "popular music". i am a Musical purist (defined Genre's) born in the late 60's and have lived through pretty much every modern Genre and "new thing" thus far. there have been some real high points and some very low points (Madonna springs to mind for the latter). i along with a great number of others in this comment section are working, dreaming and striving to make GOOD Music. today signing a "standard contract" which negates the Artist right to their Master tapes and Rights as the sole creator of said Art is not the way any longer. the "industry" wants profit/money they do not care about innovation or creativity unless they can make a profit off of it and WILL crush your soul to get it as MANY have found out. then there is always the issue of getting said Art out to the masses which you covered quite well. imo the industry itself is stifling innovation. a few get through but at what cost to them personally? this was why back in the 70's and 80's you could find tapes (mostly) of self released bootleg quality Music in the brick and mortar stores (then called gorilla marketing) and could find some amazing stuff. we need this again but in the digital domain with protections. which is why i am an ASCAP Member. wordy i know, i am passionate about the subject as well. Great Video Mikko.

[@jcalzada74]

Im still stuck on the 90s death metal no other bands make me change my mind 😂😂😂

[@mlsoundlab]

Dude that's awesome too and we all like what we like. A lot of genres peaked around the 90s. 🎉

[@jnbovee]

I could see you and Rick Beato together talking about this.

[@mandrias]

I would watch that.

[@akaerik1]

Nah Rick hates hip hop

[@mlsoundlab]

I love Rick's videos! ❤

[@akaerik1]

Love the hip hop takes didn't know you were a head 👍🏽

[@mlsoundlab]

I listen to what I love listening to. Definitely listened to both 2pac and Jimi in my youth. 😅

[@akaerik1]

@@mlsoundlab Thats why your the man 👍

[@davidmultimedia2024]

Definitely agree here.. but I'd also add Jack Gardiner to the top of the list. This guy is pushing guitar creativity and fusion music to the next level, in the most delicious way IMO. One of my biggests inspirations for sure. It's on us, artists, to make it shine as much as possible by thinking outside of the box and always open our mind to experiment. Trust your gut and use your ears!

[@NickySayahSina]

Dude, I'm still learning how to write songs! It's one step at a time, for me. You make excellent points though, to be sure. :)

[@mlsoundlab]

You are in the unique position where you can write down what you like about music as a listener and stick to that. Once you start taking lessons that gets further away.

[@BLOOBADGA69]

Spot on..totally agree

[@DoveSimon]

Fantastic video Mikko! I think everything you said is spot on.

[@mlsoundlab]

Thank you so much!! 😊

[@turov2661]

I'm going to partially blame the spotify playlist meta for this. As an artist wanting to promote yourself on streaming platforms you're actively discouraged from innovating because you need to fit into a small box that playlist curators put artists into, otherwise forget about getting placements and anyone listening to your music. Of course there are other ways of promoting yourself, but still as I am making music I need to think about which stupid micro genre I'm going to put myself into so that algorythms know who to serve my music to.

[@mlsoundlab]

@@turov2661 This is true. Originally I thought Spotify makes musicians fair game and we don't need labels anymore. Now it's like you need contacts to get on very specific playlists to get heard at all and even if you do it's never going to make you a living. 🤔

[@IanVase]

Agree. Nu-metal should have been called progressive and today's progressive metal should've been called nu-metal. Nu-metal bands (not all of course) strived to create something new and different and have their own sound. So many bands now are just expressing the same EXACT emotion and it's so bland. It does as you said seem like progressive music is stuck.

[@mlsoundlab]

Nu metal was more innovative and bands had their own sound. SOAD, Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot... all recognizable by hearing 3sec of their music. Listen to 30sec of djent and try and guess which band it is... not easy. 😢

[@nexyboye5111]

from djent they formed Thall, listen to the last album of Humanity's Last Breath for example. another recommendation is car bomb. they are fucking innovative

[@mlsoundlab]

Actually very familiar with both. Semi-buddies in both bands. Amazing guys! Made djent EVEN HEAVIER!

[@nexyboye5111]

@@mlsoundlab yeah whatever

[@Shredilicous]

I agree, there is one new band that I think is more innovative than most metal bands at the moment, SLEEP TOKEN. I love how they change gears in their tunes. I think it’s time for 80’s metal to come back, lol!

[@mlsoundlab]

Definitely have to appreciate their achievements and clearly they're really good musicians. I'm not sure if slowly evolving long song formats can break into the mainstream but I absolutely love the fact that they're essentially the anti-TikTok. I listened to them more back in the day! 😊

[@TheBanana93]

They seriously broke some boundaries! Love them!

[@Shredilicous]

@ I do agree that they aren’t destined for mainstream with their current song writing formula. I’m curious to see what they put out 2025 since signing with RCA.

[@Shredilicous]

@ I say bring back CLARK KENT! Your riffs on that white PRS were so cool back then👍🏻

[@jirosaves_theworld]

nowadays people are just make music with 1 F*** **** note for entire song

[@mlsoundlab]

A lot of this too. Partly due to not caring about melody but just "the sound". 10 years ago people made joke songs like that and now it's actually what it is.

[@jirosaves_theworld]

@@mlsoundlab that's what i mean sir so sad our old joke became reality now glad we had spotify so i can played my own playlist instead of Radio #wipetears

[@RyRyTheBassGuy]

I'd say Sikth's "Death Of a Dead Day" was more important to Djent than Periphery 1.

[@mlsoundlab]

Bland Street Bloom definitely got played a lot back in the day! Dillinger Escape Plan as well?

[@morphingmetal4589]

You are absolutelly correct man. i played that thing aroung 2006 i cant remember that well the year i discovered. but i do remember coming from work listening to that everyday. greetings from Argentina.

[@pjmtry7]

No new instruments since the synth have been created, all new genres of music are rehash and mix of old ones, the FX is only mix of all that has already been done, where to go from here!

[@mlsoundlab]

How about unique genre blends like Skindred = Reggae Metal etc? There's more to explore with what we have. Skrillex made synth sound quite different too. 😊

[@iammodernrevolution]

Best video ever

[@Durkhead]

In the 1986 transformers movie they killed optimus prime in the begining of the movie

[@mlsoundlab]

Terminator 2!!!!!!

[@stan.riff91]

I would like to summarize the video and topic you have started and sorry if will not be able to find right words but i was trying at least:D Inmo the world is stuck. Too much comfort. Technology is in our hands and it helps us on daily basis, no doubts but at the same time it ruins relations between people, creativity and vibe. I see that people get bored extremely fast these days. All bands sound the same. Some kind of algorithm is constantly being repeated in music i think. I believe 90's were better for me to live. It's too much of everything in these days. There are few bands that bring some freshness into music. There are few series and movies on netflix and other streaming platforms that are new, unique and have hidden message that can make us develop, maybe come to some conclusions or make us remember this or that like with movie "Good will hunting" or "A beautiful mind". The same happens with games. Bigger screens, more leds around the keyboard and even inside the PC. Graphics stuck, prices went higher but possibilities of graphics are pretty much the same. Frankly we invented everything already I think. We got to the wall in all areas that make people feel burn out. Sometimes things must fall apart for better things to come together. That's why I like to come back to old music and grab my axe and play music I like even if all ordinary people like to listen radio rubbish songs from Mr Bieber and etc.

[@JonnyCrackers]

Wholeheartedly disagree with you on the black album being peak Metallica.

[@mlsoundlab]

As far as cultural impact Metallica in the 90s - Black Album, Load and Reload was when Metallica became culturally significant. Master Of Puppets ('86) is my favorite but not talking about what my personal favorite album of theirs is. 😊

[@DarthV506]

For the last 20 years, pop music has less and less guitar, maybe that's why guitar players are disillusioned? And I'm guessing everyone thinks the music they listened to when they grew up was the best generation. Guess recording to tape meant you either had it or you didn't. Now you can quantize to the Nth degree, use as many takes as you want and everything needs to be perfect. Spend that effort in writing better songs. And get off my lawn :)

[@mlsoundlab]

I was trying to point out culture and just use guitar music as an example. Of course because I love guitar music I'd love to see it evolve and have cultural significance. However that does not seem to matter to a lot of people. F.ex. the biggest song of 2015 was "Justin Bieber/Ed Sheeran - Love Yourself" which was all guitar. During that time I saw guitarists playing that song as a joke almost like "haha - this is not the right kind of guitar music" while you clearly took the time to learn it so you kind of admit you like it? Meanwhile not understanding that we actually had the biggest song of the year which is mostly a guitar lick/riffy bit that resonated with millions of people that year. Popular culture is very much accepting of guitar music so it seems? So the problem is that many guitarists want "their kind of music" to be the thing that everyone likes. I think history is likelier to repeat itself - just like shreddy overly technical guitar music was in fashion in the 80s and grunge came in and made it very evident that music is not a sport but expression art.... that is likely the way we get out of whatever we have right now. What we have right now is pretty cool too IMHO but I feel like things have not changed in quite many years and that worries me more than anything else.

[@mikejones-vd3fg]

Well said, I think the innovationin the 90's was organic however, you had the technical 80's before that where musicanship was king, alternative rock as they called it was a rebellion against that, young vs old basically, as the young replace the old. I also believe this stagnation of innovation is also organic however, as you said with many forms of entertainment thanks to the internet now, there isnt a preasure on music to innovate when it was the majority of enetertainment in young peoples minds in years past. Or you could argue it needs to innovate bigtime if it wants to be the dominant form of entertainment again but i thnk thats in the past. But you never know, i once herad a guy play a guitar solo that was so untechnical, so out of key, it was amazing! I never heard anything like it. So innovation will still happen, more likely by accident. AnywayI think its also part of the growth as a species as we realize, we need to explore the universe if we want something new to be honest, how many times will we spin around the globe before we get bored of everything? wont be long. That or the planet will eventually become inhabitable. All life on this planet is related, theres only so much variation we can have with all this inbreeding, but its still amazing we can have this much varaition just from 1 ansesctor(according the DNA record). But i think we need to find aliens, see something new, the skeletal system is the same in every animal and its getting old! common!

[@escapegulag4317]

guitar is simply not important anymore. some of the bands I listen to could swap guitars for synths and it wouldnt matter because good music is vocals driven. We have already heard every riff imaginable, its getting old fast.

[@morphingmetal4589]

I blame the boring sterile mids heavy distortions of modernity. now you need 8 strings to be heavy, and buy many types of modelers to be considered modern. but innovation comes from not following any formulas. at least thats my take on this new world order. im sure i can be wrong, so why dont say it anyways. hahaha. greetings from Argentina.

[@mlsoundlab]

I wouldn't blame the guitar tone itself. Songwriting can be innovative even with bad guitar tones. I would say Nirvana guitar tones are far from what most guitarist want - yet their music...

[@morphingmetal4589]

@@mlsoundlab thats absolutelly right. messhuggah set the bar pretty high. everybody got stuck in that polyrythm chugg fest that i love with all my heart, but thats their thing, , music industry is a parasite.

[@TheBanana93]

Beartooth and Motionless in white are not djent lol, check out Allt they are seriously good, thall is the innovation of djent lol

[@mlsoundlab]

@@TheBanana93 Motionless has djenty bits! But mainly was referring to the style of scream + melodic singing and clean + distorted guitar and the occasional polyriff. 😉

[@jamiefonte7238]

I couldn't agree more. It's gotten so cookie cutter I've been pushed to the alt metal scene. Listening to bands like Castle Rat. It's just the same 12 bands now churning out the same FFDP boring chuggery. Although bands like Sleep Token are pushing some boundaries, it's still safe and predictable. Bands like Jinjer need to step up their game and innovate

[@pauliusmscichauskas558]

Djemt has been dead for a while. I think the current trend is returning to Nu Metal/Alternative metal type of songwriting.

[@noelgoode4080]

The 70s was the BEST!!

[@TreyXanthean-c5h]

Yes! when they had no rules and anything could happen.

[@nothing-else-m23]

For music maybe, other things though... not so much

[@burtscho]

I am kinda done with super low tuned guitars. It just doesent sound appealing to me anymore

[@louisburley1597]

I fucking love Falling In Reverse. I want everyone to listen to Bad Guy on the latest album. It is SHORT. And you know what? The first time I heard it... I repeated it. Again, and again. What other recent song has made you do that? Leaves you with a high wanting more so you play it again. I haven't experienced this since Eluveitie's album" Everything Remains as It Never Was" which was released in 2010. Quoth The Raven still brings me chills. Let me know your experiences. Mikko is dead on with this take.