Making a Taper Gage: Cutting, Milling, and Hardening A2 Tool Steel

Working on a custom tool that I need to help with the production of some taper keys that require a 1 inch per Foot taper. I milled an approximate taper on a piece of 3/8" thick A2 Tool Steel and then hardened it using a heat treatment in a HotShot 360 Heat Treat Oven.
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[@paulputnam2305]

The heat treat oven in the shop I work for has a very annoying alarm squeal. The display flashes CPLT which of course stands for complete.Thanks for sharing the cool paper trick. I didn’t know that one. Nice work Keith.

[@zachaliles]

I didn't realize you still had it in the paper wrapper and I thought you were holding a piece of wood setting us up for a gag like This old Tony would do.

[@dreadnaught2707]

When I use letter & number stamps I like to have a guide clamped to the part to line up the stamps against. This gives a much nicer, level, line of text.

[@dtoad48]

@Greatest Evar Why are you making fun of him? I thought the tip was helpful.

[@ExtantFrodo2]

I'd still get one or two of the upside down... Perfectly in line, but still wrong a shell.

[@bcbloc02]

Glad to see others getting into the heat treating fun like me!

[@lewiemcneely9143]

Baily does it to the couch on a regular basis or maybe the couch does it to him.

[@ronshepherd3838]

Good Morning, Just stopped by to say thank you for all of the marvelous videos. I am enthralled by how you can take things apart and actually put them together again...... and make them work. Your work on the Monarch is by far my favorite.Keep up the good work. Ron in Northern Minnesota.

[@davidmicheletti6292]

Hi I’m Dave from northern Minnesota. Now everyone knows what I do on my day off. Lol

[@BarnyardEngineering]

Keith: I need a longer scale (to draw a diagonal on a 6" part) Me: Expects him to come back with a 12" scale. Keith: Returns with a 7" scale. Further proof that he who dies with the most tools, wins.

[@dtoad48]

That looked like a piece of scrap.. not a scale.

[@ExtantFrodo2]

Yeah, he cut down a spare 12" ruler because... well, just because.

[@lonnywilcox445]

@@dtoad48 looked like a knife straightedge to me, I believe he picked up a set recently that had several lengths.

[@boltonky]

Making things involves a never ending learning experience and appreciate the videos and knowledge you provide us :)

[@nikond90ful1]

Thanks for the video Keith.

[@DementedPony]

The paper trick, liked the video that instant

[@kylemichael2175]

Very nice work Keith!

[@piotrlenarczyk5803]

Thank you for video. It is cool presentation of median tool room work.

[@MattysWorkshop]

Gday Keith, that’s an interesting hardness tester, I’ve never seen one like that before, very handy, thanks for sharing another awesome video, Cheers Matty

[@phildcrow]

Great video, Keith. Thanks.

[@haroldkreye8770]

Hello Keith, for an informative video, packed with lots of good information.

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing. Very much enjoyed.

[@ElectricGears]

When using those individual letter stamps I like to clamp a fence to the part to keep them on the same base line and with no rotation. You can also clamp a fence to the table and use a parallel to space the letters from the edge of the part if it's small or if the clamps would interfere with the hammering.

[@stxrynn]

Very good info. Thanks for that.

[@tropifiori]

As a backyard blacksmith I do some really rough, by guess and by gosh heat treating.Nice to see it done correctly.

[@ypop417]

Nice job Keth

[@clydecessna737]

Wow! I learned a bunch.

[@tinker5349]

Hi very interesting, thanks for sharing the information and video.

[@bigbob1699]

I always made an envelope with a loose fit , and sealed my steel with double foil hammered shut with out cutting the seal . We added 25 degs for the foil .

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Very good...Keith..Thanks very much..My friend...!

[@michaelrobertson8795]

Learn something new everyday excellent video👍✌

[@jamesdavis8021]

I was happy to see you add a piece of paper in the package. I wrap the part in paper. I see people just place the part in the oven without wrapping in stainless foil and I just shake my head.

[@randelljones4002]

Keith, just a quick tip on heat treating the A2 toolsteel. The stainless steel bag is to tight. The paper is a good trick but not necessary. When you pull that out rip the bag off and the fan to get uniform hardening. Keep up the good informative work!

[@richardreis5865]

I really enjoy your videos thanks for the knowledge and entertainment. I have been doing industrial inspection for some time, and have used similar tester to determine hardness. this type of hardness tester will not be as accurate on thin metals as some of the force that creates the indentation is taken up by deflection in the part. This can be helped by using a past (thick grease) to connect the part to a flat thick plate (greater that one inch). the other inaccuracies come from surface condition (as you mentioned the smother the better, polished is best) and errors in measuring the indentation. I hope that this is helpful

[@rickbrandt9559]

Hey Keith still hanging around watching,Thumb videos!!!

[@awizardalso]

I found a KZbinr who showed how to heat treat metals. I had to make mounting components for a larger gas tank on my motorcycle. I used an old lawn mover blade and heated it red hot with a propane torch to soften the metal. After it cooled off, I cut two 6 inch pieces out of it. I drilled holes in it for the bolts where it would mount. I also used a hinge for my solo seat. After I cut off one side of the hinge and bent the hinge to fit. I heated the two parts from the mower blade and the hinge pieces red hot in a small charcoal grill with a fan blower air into the bottom vent on the grill to get more heat. When the parts were red hot, I quenched them in used motor oil. Not only did they turn black the oil pretty much made them rust proof.

[@TheBigDaddyClub]

awesome man

[@kimber1958]

Good morning Keith

[@montynorth3009]

Back in the day,all I had was a pile of house bricks arranged into an open fronted kiln and a coal gas torch. Got the job done and quickly. The Blacksmith approach if you will.

[@melgross]

The colder the air and the more of it, the higher the hardness, up to the maximum of the alloy. For A2 that’s about RC 65 for bars and rounds. At RC 55 it does t. Ed tempering to bring the hardness down, but it will relieve some stresses.

[@waynep343]

I wonder if the shelves and cone stands used in ceramics kilns for stacking. The part closer to the center of the kiln rather than sitting on the bottom.

[@paulubelhack6967]

hallo. gute arbeit Keith, wie immer.

[@fattyco1]

Great content as usual Keith, thank you. BUT please can you move your mic out of the path of the air you're exhaling - It really does ruin your videos - for me anyway.

[@stanleyknight8173]

Hey Keith you might want to give Abomb79 A call or email him. He just started out with his heater oven and is having some inconsistences with his Rockwell testing. He said it was new to him and wasn't sure exactly what he was doing with the oven, but they did increase the Rockwell of the steel he was tempering.

[@yhnbgt365]

One day at work I had to program an environmental test chamber. My wife asked me what I did that day and I said I programmed a refrigerated oven. She thought I was teasing her until I explained the temperature range was -60 to +180 degrees F over a six hour period and repeated ten cycles, then put it on the shake table for five minutes, and finally, test it and see if it still worked. At the end of the week I reported that yes, the circuit board still worked. She still thought I was nuts, but since I was getting paid to play everything was OK.

[@outsidescrewball]

enjoyed

[@waynespyker5731]

Design your shop built tools to include additional functions beyond their initial need or function. In this case mill a shallow recess so the stamped text is below your finish grind surface. Add another recess on the opposite side to stamp your name. Or drill 1 or 2 through clearance holes to bolt it to your 1-2-3 block tapped holes. Or have the same angle at 90 degree on the small end. Or drill and tap a 5-40 thread in the small end on the angle to bolt on a stop heal (the heal may be used on other angle variants). After heat treating additional features are difficult to modify. Search on EBAY for ideas under machinist lots and tools.

[@ZacVaper]

Hope your okay, you sound out of breath and your not doing anything stressful...

[@aangelbf2]

Next you get a chance to test hardness, please do the ptc test before treatment. Just curious.

[@deathk26]

I think he did that in a past video. Could be wrong though.

[@aangelbf2]

@@deathk26 He tested the A2 tool steel bar he just cut and hardened in a previous video?

[@deathk26]

No, a different piece he was hardening in an older video. Your initial post just sounded like you were curious about the difference the hardening makes in general rather than the difference with this specific piece of metal.

[@jdmccorful]

Good job. Oh, really like the oven. The directions for the controller can be confusing sometimes

[@youcoulduseit7492]

The easy way to some taper keys. Is it better to have it out of the pouch for even cooling . A not to rapid or slow quench . ABOM79 I think he had that problem with the hopper car key. But that was an oil quench. on a aloy steel the tool steel i know is much higher carbon and the A2 well i would not try an oil quench . But Its experience with part/metal cool demonstration

[@thebear5454]

I'm wondering if there is a difference between air quenching verses oil. I watched Adam oil quench a piece the other day using the SS foil for the first time.

[@samueltaylor4989]

Make sure to grind the bottom flat before grinding the angle!!

[@DirtyRobot]

Is it heat treatment month?

[@ypop417]

Everyone wants to warm up from winter LOL

[@unclebobsbees4899]

Yes,.so your not dying of sweat in the middle of summer.😁

[@scotty362100]

I'm sure the guy who gave them the ovens required videos to promote the product!

[@harpomarx7777]

Keith ... how much video time do you think you ate up unwrapping .. and then re-wrapping that piece of steel?

[@kenandree7102]

Hi Keith, just thinking, why don't you find and cut down an old grill from a Charcoal grill for inside Stan's oven

[@jean-francoisgrenier4947]

hello Keith! when you say, according to the book, which one do you use to get your heat treating recipe?

[@bobbyhickman7905]

I bet Mrs' doesn't let you wrap many Christmas presents after that SS foil job! HaHa Don't know if have chance to watch Alec Steele but he's having devil with BIG power hammer he bought. I thought he just neededto call you! Not insult to him....just big job…

[@CatNolara]

Abom79 tested his piece in different places for hardness and got pretty different results, did you check in different places too?

[@jcknives4162]

I’ve been making knives for decades and using SS foil. Watch out for foil cuts. Hahaha. If you think a paper cut is bad. Also, instead of paper, I use a wooden match. I like the colors on the metal. They are not an oxide, just the gas produced from the match. Paper is fine. Some steels need to be tempered while still warm so I use a separate oven for temper. Generally, if the steel is hot to touch. But I can hold it, it’s ready for temper. I let my knives soak for 2 hours in temper, cool and then I temper again. I know your angle gauge isn’t a performance piece like a knife blade so it doesn’t really matter. A2 is good but so is O1. Both are easy to machine and easy to HT but good and tough steel.

[@DavoShed]

No one uses a hacksaw anymore ? Wow you are in a parallel universe with Abom :)

[@ninex21para]

Are you planning on grinding 1/4 inch off of taper? Would it not be easier to mill to with in a 1/16 or 1/32 then final grind?

[@jamesreed6121]

As always I enjoyed the video. I have a question. Why not use two Dowel pins placed in holes (using the DRO to Locate and drill the holes) on the A2 before milling? The math wouldn't be too difficult, calculators make the job easy. I'm thinking the setup time for this procedure would payoff when it comes time to do the grinding. I believe the pins would establish the angle very accurately. Would very much like to know what you think.

[@onetech3984]

good for pies too!!

[@wesbiglin4845]

Keith what book are you using for all your heat treating specs??

[@cbmsysmobile]

Think Abom79 needs to have a chat with you about heat treatment techniques....

[@zanechristenson3436]

Keith you’re awesome man but we gotta do something with the breathing noise. Mouth breathing is all good but once we get to tooting through the nose my goodness. Your poor spouse lol. Thanks for the video great info

[@wyrdlg]

Funny he's doing a similar video as Abom

[@alphadog6970]

That one dislike is Abom being jealous.

[@WreckDiver99]

LOL...He did have his moments with his oven...lol. Haven't seen Adam get frustrated often, but I think he was borderline ready to throw something across the shop.

[@adrianbranham2023]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKqniaCdfad1msU yes : )

[@jedigoof1548]

In Adams defense he was trying to heat treat a much larger part. And trying to cool that big a part quickly its not easy. But the frustration was definitely real!

[@WreckDiver99]

@@jedigoof1548 Oh absolutely. I have a friend that works in a heat treat plant. Oil Quenching is done in 250gallon oil baths that get cooled down. They also don't have to worry about the oxygen atmosphere because their ovens don't have that kind of issue...industrial ovens have methods for purging, and therefore no need to wrap in stainless steel foil.

[@ShainAndrews]

Who is Abom

[@JimConnelley]

*Idea* A set to be used for common tapers.

[@jojeemojee4471]

3:09 Definitely, not AvE style unboxing.

[@WreckDiver99]

TIME!

[@hughdanaher2758]

I don't know, AvE uses a saw too.

[@WreckDiver99]

@@hughdanaher2758 Not last time..it's all about STYLE! LOL...go big or go home...

[@jojeemojee4471]

@Hugh Danaher, last time he used bulldozer

[@WreckDiver99]

@@jojeemojee4471 It's not about speed, it's about STYLE! LOL

[@ron827]

Just in case someone is interested in the math for finding the angle for 1" in 1', on a scientific calculator, divide 1 by 12 and then find the arctangent using the "arctan" or "tan-1" key. You could of course look it up in the Machinery Handbook which was written long before hand held calculators. "If you can't beat it, cheat it." Love it!

[@joshdrexler8773]

I watch AvE videos (well, not any more, took a while but I finally got over being a pimply faced teenager with a perpetual hardon), Abom, TOT, Stefan, Robrenz, blondiehacks, etc. Some others, including a few classy woodworkers, too. And the comments to their videos are always so uniformly positive and admiring, even when the video is not nearly so deserving. As one instance, Abom really blew his recent heat treating project a few days ago. And frankly, the fault was largely down to him, not criticizing, he's a good man and a fine machinist, just sayin'. His extremely flawed heat treating video that failed to draw the proper lessons (don't guess at the purpose of the article you're building, ask for advice before you light her up, etc.) drew a lot of helpful comments, some were really good stuff, but none were dripping with negativity or mockery as such. And then here's poor Keith Rucker, drawing negative comments to this video like AvE's mouth draws subartic flies. Why? This guy is hardworking, earnest and sincere. Abom used to have an equally jumbo southern accent as Keith, before he slimmed down (less of that gold accent sauce from Billy Bob's country barbeque, I guess). This video has its shortcomings, but why is Keith receiving as much negative comment from one video as pretty much all of the other recent makers in their videos put together? It doesn't seem deserved to me, or to make a lot of sense. Rucker usn't arrogant, he isn't rude, admittedly he could be crisper. Anyway, best of luck to him. He's in a high risk group for the new virus. Hope he's OK.

[@RobertKohut]

Nice!! :-)

[@adrianbranham2023]

👍

[@6NBERLS]

Were the temperatures expressed in Fahrenheit or Centigrade?

[@scottr939]

He's an American machinist, making a taper block of 1 inch per foot, and you still need to ask that question? smh

[@dieterwerner3124]

Have you ever tried to heat steel up to 1800C? Probably not, it will melt at that temperature.

[@oldpup2182]

Isn't that diametric taper per foot, or 1/4 inch over 6 inches?? For the diameter to change 1 inch, the taper attachment would need 1/2 inch angle. I used to cut threads on everything from standard steel pipe threads to 3 inch taper per foot oil field connections and it was always on a diametric, change in diameter, over a foolt.

[@KW-ei3pi]

I usually watch these videos at 2x speed. Try it

[@danrabenhorst2549]

you should go show Abom how to do it he did not know what he was doing

[@jmdpaintball]

i love your video nice explaination you know what you talking about and nice shop but the dart vader(respiration) sound is not necessary you could move the mic a bit it would up your game and make it perfect video (its not to be insulting just a comment to help get better quality)

[@tacticalrabbit308]

Those birds must be on your end in this video

[@JustJimWillDo]

I am not a machinist. I am not a metalworker. I had to check the date a couple of minutes in to make sure it wasn't April 1st because I was sure you were holding a stick of wood and comparing it to various angle and taper gauges. It may be that I am not a smart man.

[@banjopete]

Jim Campbell ,you may be right.

[@Sophocles13]

I noticed the CRKT pocket knife you were using. Please, since you seem like someone that appreciates quality, use an American made product! I know your excuse might me "I just need a beater" etc. etc. etc. but those can be found American made too. with American steel and construction. If you're looking for something nice that will last forever and has similar handling and looks to your CRKT, check out this 100% American made "Zero Tolerance 0452CF" or perhaps a "Kershaw 1776 Link" also made in the good old USA

[@Windgonner]

You really had me confused at A2 steel. For me (of the ISO persuasion) A2 is austenitic stainless eq. to about AISI 304 used for stainless fasteners. I had to pause and go look AISI A2 up.

[@millwrightrick1]

A1, A2, refer to air hardening tool steel. W1, W2 refer to water hardening tool steels and O1, O2 refer to oil hardening tool steels.

[@harlech2]

We almost had a moment when he stamped the "1"... glad that didn't end up with wordy dirds, hopping, skipping and an edit.

[@alphadog6970]

Someone should make Vintage Machinery supercut video with moments like this.

[@stephenp8086]

I can't believe you didn't use gloves while warping. That SS foil will slice you open before you even feel it.

[@Plus8Precision]

Hey Keith, You used a hardened ballpeen hammer on hardened stamps? Thats a good way to send the stamp flying across your shop and getting your fingers. Mike - Plus8Precision

[@lonniehutchinson4310]

I would have expected a sine bar and am curious why you chose to make a custom gauge. I have a hard time believing you don't have a sine bar...

[@TidyThreads]

looks like wood to me

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

Keith, could you have case hardened that material rather than straight heat treating it. As we did not have a precision oven like the one you used for hardening tools in my father's engineering works, we used to put the tools in bone meal in a sealed iron box, then leave it on the edge of the blacksmith's forge fire for a day or so. Not exactly precision but it seemed to work.

[@machintelligence]

You might not want to case harden (surface harden) if you are going to grind it to final size. At least that is what it seems to me.

[@waynespyker5731]

Case hardening would work if you don't need a ground finish. Finish grinding can remove a greater thickness than the case!

[@scottr939]

Case hardening is done if you only want to harden a sliding contact area. It leaves the center soft. Here, he wanted the entire piece to be hard throughout, presumably to withstand heavy clamping, compression and deflection forces.

[@waynespyker5731]

@chris0tube (though additional care is required) quite good thickness/penetration/skin All very true but how much is additional? What values represent 'good'? Have used thousands of nitrided products in my plastic injection mold designs. Case hardening excels for sliding assemblies. But for the procedures and equipment shown in the video Keith's selection will always produce the better tool.

[@Deftonesdsm]

Need an apprentice Keith? Haha i wish i had machine tools i learned on ww2 era bridgeport's and lathes. Built a tubing bender from scratch. Then i was an a.s.e. tech and now a journeyman carpenter but i do miss machining things. I just need to find a job i enjoy and is consistent but i make too much as a carpenter id havta take a 80% pay cut. Uhhggg society sux wish it was just about trading instead of money thats value is based on speculation

[@chrispalombo6394]

11:12 - Keith, did you use your wife's sewing scissors for that steel foil?

[@coconutpie333]

i would hate to be a thermocouple lol

[@monkeyboy4746]

I was waiting for the drama, but it didn't happen.

[@davidgagnon2849]

I'll bet that stainless foil will cut you WIDE open if you're not careful.

[@Sophocles13]

@ 1:00 did you really think you were fooling anyone? that is very clearly a piece of wood. probably plywood. damn.

[@onehot57]

Keith I like your videos BUT you can “doodle “ more than any utuber!

[@mickynixon4814]

heat treat month wait 3-4 months then free from Carona lol

[@oleanderson3693]

Keith, just once could you really slow down when you say vintage machinery dot com? Listen to yourself, funny!

[@____________6145]

nice work but the milling part was a bit of a hack job an can be done better

[@josephnorton1996]

Please don't take this as an insult, as I Love your videos. But can you move your mic a bit, I hear a lot of you breathing when working. Most of the times it's not too bad. but I have started noticing it more and more.

[@banjopete]

Joseph Norton , get out more.

[@jessjulian9458]

Damn, now I hear it. Thanks.

[@googleuser859]

Fantastic content but I do have one small criticism, the heavy breathing, it's very loud. I wish it could be edited out or lower the volume somehow. I breathe too so I know some people have to do it. It's just very noticeable on your videos. Sorry to be a moaner.

[@andyb7963]

I thought it was Darth Vader helping him out!

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

It has been mentioned before, the placing of the microphone is partly responsible but even so I can't help but be concerned that there is a case for professional advice and/or "life style change".

[@ceeabout4248]

E

[@evanpenny348]

Like your channel. Have been watching with deep appreciation for years now. Lots to like. But getting a little weary of American machinists going on about cheep Chinese tools. I have no doubt that you can buy cheep American tools that are just as crappy. Lesson is that if you buy cheep Chinese, Indian, Taiwanese, English, Polish Japanese etc etc tools you will get what you pay for. keep doing what you are doing and thanks for the channel, but please lay off with the Chinese thing. PS I am in no way anti American, and I am not Chinese.

[@maxcnc777]

He said nothing derogatory whatsoever, and certainly didn't "go on" about it. Your complaint is unwarranted.

[@erikjohansson1814]

15 minutes unwrapping some steel. 15 minutes talk in circles about an oven. 🙄

[@boubaros]

I totally agree. I am asking for a refund...!!!