Making an OAL Gauge Modified Case (300 PRC Demo)

[@burville100]

I have made modified cases for my rifles in work and like a few who have commented on here have put them directly into a collet. Almost every time it has slipped and marked the case. I never thought of using the sizing die to hold them. Thanks so much for the tip.

[@robertboyd3863]

That was a great idea, but really , who cares if the case is marked a bit as long as you smooth it off so it can't hang up and give a false reading

[@Ultimatereloader]

@@robertboyd3863 The more important factor to me is concentricity. If you clamp the case with a cylindrical surface, you won't be running true. Using the die accounts for the taper of the case body!

[@1eyedoc34]

Seeing the old turret lathe in the background brought back lots of memories 😊 that was the first lathe I ever ran way back in 1974….I was hooked for life 40 years as a machinist. I became a job shop prototype machinist for the top job shop at in Houston Texas then at MD Anderson Cancer Center worked in and the ran their R&D machine shop (they called the Scientific Instrument Shop…..❤

[@davidhutchinson6108]

Now this is useful content. Just to have someone run the lathe and explain as they go is super beneficial for those of us just starting out.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Thank you, I really enjoy making this kind of content, glad it was helpful to you!

[@mr.noneyabidness]

Well going to chuck up a .458 SOCOM case in the old Atlas now.

[@MarkBrown5150]

I, too, as a drill press machinist! Many things I see done on a full lathe and/or mill I have been able to duplicate adequately with one of my Harbor Freight drill presses. Both presses are from the mid or so 1980's. Would absolutely love to have true "machines" but, alas, I too, am a poor old man.

[@asdfjkl981]

i did it with a cordless drill in a bench vice a reusable zip tie for the speed adjustment and a T-bar for the drillbit and the threading tool.

[@douglasbattjes3991]

Great idea to use the sizer die to do the threading, difficult to drill and thread without messing up the case. Same lathe as mine, and have 4 old, but like new craftsman 12" lathes to unload, love my new one Thanks Gavin

[@randalloc]

Made a few of these myself... you don't need a lathe.. a simple cheap drill press will do it too. and you don't have to wait and pay Hornady for it.. in addition ideally you should use a case that was shot in the rifle you are using it for. .... that said.. I wish I had a lathe and knew how to use one!

[@DLN-ix6vf]

TIP: for the Hornady bullet comparator; I just measured 3 different 223 bullets of different weights and manufacturers and found a total of CBTO variance of some .030. All bullets must have identical O'Gives. Then I removed the plastic plunger and filed down the rounded end into a more pointed end and remeasured a 3 bullets again @ 8 each and found the new total variance of the same bullets to be .010. In two of the bullets the CBTO variance was less than 5%. Very accurate now. My conclusion is the bullet bases are not 100% perpendicular to the concentricity of the bullet and the plastic plunger end is too large to get an accurate reading on a small point from the base of the bullets. This was all done in a brand-new JC Custom barrel just purchased and not installed. I wish Hornady would install a smaller metal pointed end on their plunger for a little extra money.

[@randytrudeau952]

I bought a desktop drill press and all those Hornady gauges last year to make a bunch of these starting with my new .224 Valkyrie then for my .308, 22-250 etc. They are all still sitting in the box. Looks like fun. Maybe when the weather cools down I can spend more time in garage making reloading tools. I guess I could have just bought the pre-made ones on Amazon instead. I guess I was socially influenced.

[@jertexjertex7880]

This makes sense - I'll just build a new workshop and buy a $15K lathe to make a modified case...😉 Seriously, I'm just jealous of your shop and all your gear, I know you can buy an inexpensive, bench-top metal lathe, but I've found that my bench-top drill press works quite well for the same job. Thanks for all the great videos, they've been extremely helpful to me as a fairly new hand loader.

[@br4713]

I have machined my own gage + modified case with my lathe, and I totally agree : a metal lathe is a very usefull tool for precision reloading !

[@vincef5832]

I put a fired case in my vise, bore a whole with a hand drill. and tapped it with a hand tapping tool. It cost me a lot less in tools for OAL/CBTO measurements. Heck I've even used a sharpie. Can't get anymore cost effective than that(and the most accurate). LOL

[@robertboyd3863]

@@vincef5832 I did use a drill press LOL

[@andrewhurstcars]

Neat demo Gavin.

[@DusToDeath]

Ha! I've done this but without a lathe. I thought a fire formed case would give better results. I'm glad to see you do as well. I also added a compound inside the base of the case, prior to drilling/threading, to give more threading depth. Eventually I will have a lathe which will make things so much easier and precise.

[@DusToDeath]

I wrote my original comment prior to reading other posts. Gavin keep doing what you're doing. The point is you're doing stuff beyond the average shop or guy in his garage. Its great info for those who wish to progress beyond that. For those complaining about the equipment used, there are a gazillion videos from guys doing stuff from a workbench.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Thanks for the support, and thanks for watching!

[@SVTboyy]

Man, I would love to have a lathe at the house..and a Bridgeport! 😂.. Another great vid Gavin! Looking forward to the load development for the 300PRC 👍🏻💯👊🏻

[@GlennGraiff-z5c]

Hi Gavin; I have a question. there is so much out there about case overall length and case to o’give. Most people say they want 2 thousandths. But if you first bump the shoulder back 2 thousandths, then push the shoulder against the chamber to get your reading before pushing the bullet back 2 thousandths aren’t you actually 4 thousandths off the lance

[@robsimpson2694]

I cut a slit in each side of the neck with a Dremel cutting wheel, it allows the bullet to slide once chambered. I don't let it contact the side of action when extracted, 9 out of 10 will be the same length.

[@michaelshea5427]

Gavin thinks everyone is rich like him and can afford a metal lathe as well as the space, tooling and time to learn! Been modifying cases for my "stony point" OAL gauge for 15 years in a mini drill press, or hand drill, le wilson trimmer case holder, or plastic soft jaws and a tap wrench. I love the videos but most folks cant operate this way.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Wow Michael- why would you assume that? Please explain yourself. Far from the truth.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Thanks Howard. I find it really interesting that people don't want to see tools or equipment they can't afford or can't justify buying. I'm not going to put in a glass blowing studio, but I love to watch people on TV and online blowing glass.... I can't afford a Ferrari, but I love watching the guys on Top Gear drive them.

[@michaelshea5427]

@@Ultimatereloader Don't get me wrong. I enjoy your videos and i am a subscriber. I also own a machine shop. The way i said "Gavin thinks everyone is rich...." was meant in a manner as if i was speaking to a buddy and after my buddy made a silly statement i would have socked him the arm in a joking way. Then been like hey, there are other people out there that cant do it that way silly! It was just the way you came off in the video as well as past videos so i thought i would throw you a friendly jab! I'm sorry it came off so rudely to you. I should have tried to use a smiley face or something to indicate that i meant no malicious intent. For the record i absolutely do not think you think everyone is rich and even though i am a machinist and riflesmith i love watching your videos! Please keep them coming!

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

@@Ultimatereloader Well said Gavin ! Howards jelly is just showing is all.

[@jaymiller393]

Spoken like a true dumbass.

[@larsalflen4399]

Can you please tell me the thread size. What unit of measurement is written on the thread cutter?

[@larrypaxman3172]

You don’t need a lathe just a drillpress I have a lathe but use my drillpress how to do this is take a board and clamp it to the bed then drill a hole in it to put the neck in or big enough to center on the tapered shoulder. Then I use my neck turning clamp to hold the case from turning and drill your hole. It comes out centered every time because the neck or shoulder is held perfectly straight with the drill and the drill centres on the primer pocket.Then I put the tap in the drillpress and hand turn it to thread the hole. Makes beautiful centered threads . Not like the lathe that is near impossible to get the case lined up and held perfectly straight . Hole size varies depending on caliber, don’t be afraid to use the shoulder of the brass in th hole

[@sandych33ks1]

Yes having a nice lathe is very handy and a must have for me. I just need a nice milling machine .

[@Ultimatereloader]

Good deal! Wishing you luck finding just the right machine!

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

They make some pretty nice affordable benchtop machines for small work if that is any help. Look up littlemachineshop.com

[@knutpohl339]

Shouldn't one use a resized brass exactly the way you'd like the shoulder to be bumped? Otherwise your OAL will be off and you'll need bullet ogive to shoulder ogive measurements or always substract your shoulder bump. And can you be sure that a fire-formed but not resized brass really goes all the way in to have full shoulder contact?

[@schalkvstaden6213]

Gavin can you provide feedback on the reason that you don't bump the shoulder on this case?

[@larrymitchell3502]

Two years & no reply from anyone so..... A case fired in the rifle is a closer fit to that firearm than a generic case. The round chambered and fired so it works in your gun. Chamber the fired case if you doubt. Does the bolt close smoothly, with no or minimal resistance? It should. If not, clean the chamber & the fired case. When the bolt closes with little or no resistance, the case fits YOUR chamber. Which is why you make your own: Factory ammo or a full length resized case is typically near or at minimum SAAMI spec to maximize compatibility with multiple rifles from multiple mfr's, chambered with equipment in various states of wear. For the same reason, so is the modified case sold by Hornady. Non-belted cartridges headspace on the shoulder (so do belted cases after one or two firings). We bump the shoulder to ensure a fired case will chamber reliably and cuz handloaders have learned that bumping usually results in improved accuracy compared to full length resizing - which intentionally resizes cases to minimum specs. No die mfr has any better idea than does a cartridge company of YOUR firearm's unigue characteristics. You do - it's a big part of why you handload. But if you feel better bumping the sample case to make it more representative of the rounds you make, go ahead. It'll still be better than a factory case. Remember: Unless you're using bushing dies (so as to control the neck size) your sizing die resizes the neck to a few thou under the bullet diameter. You'll have to ream it or use an oversize mandrel in order for a bullet to slip fit. Hopenthis helps. If you see this & still have questions, pls reply.

[@myfire4667]

How do you figure out the size to expand the neck to have the loose fit on the bullet?

[@lanchanoinguyen2914]

your lathe machine is cool

[@squeaker458]

Hi Gavin is the thread tap UNF or UNEF? I have a wild cat cartridge 303.25 I nee to make a modified case for Cheers Whitey

[@tpalshadow]

This has probably already been said, but for those of us who don't have a lathe, Hornady will do this for you for a very small fee. You send them 2 cases with some money for return shipping and it comes back in less than two weeks.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Yep!

[@ceebee40]

@@Ultimatereloader unfortunately Hornady only do it for anyone in the USA so us foreigners have to get it done in a shop that is not always gun savvy :)

[@johntaylor1310]

Do you want your bullet just touching the lands. Or just off the lands. And if so by how much

[@mikenicholson9465]

John Taylor You have to let your rifle tell you what it wants. Load some rounds at different jumps and try them. Closer for bench rest (0-20 thousands) and farther for hunting rounds( out to 40 thousands) these are suggestions I have seen on u tube, I run my 7 mag at .004, that is where it likes it, but I have had rounds that won't chamber. No good for hunting situation. Do some homework, load some rounds and start testing. More shooting is more fun. Good luck

[@robertboyd3863]

@@mikenicholson9465 If Weatherby be very careful about sitting too close, they are meant for a lot of freebore

[@WayneGent-t2l]

Where did you get the tap? It's off size thread right?

[@ewathoughts8476]

Your case is specific to just your rifle, while Hornady produced cases are universal fit. Could you not body size (not including the neck) your case while maintaining the base to shoulder datum length, therefore making a universal fit case?

[@neilharris4462]

I think the point was that he wants a case to perfectly fit the chamber of the rifle he is reloading for as the universal types aren't quite as form fitting as you would like for precision reloading.

[@ewathoughts8476]

@@neilharris4462 You point is understood, however, in my experience a fire formed case will not fit back into its original chamber unless the bolt is closed. Cannot close the bolt in this instance, so he will not be getting the case shoulder tight against chamber shoulder. Therefore his readings will be false false. Better to partially size the case so the shoulder match up. Have to be careful that the partial sizing does not move the shoulder forward, of you have to bump the shoulder back to the before sizing measurement. It is an arguement in any case, that is why I asked the question.

[@tgunz64]

What do you do with the case mouth so the bullet slides loosely like in the Hornady modified case? Or has the once fired brass opened up enough for bullet movement?

[@thebigcapt]

Another great video, also making my own cases, have you left your fire formed case as it was or have you sized it, neck sized or bumped before checking OAL.

[@jenbet81]

Do you have a link to purchase the tap?

[@georgepapoulidis9728]

Hi Mate great videos and great informational channel, I have a question and that is the Tap you use is it 5/16 x 36 UNF or UNEF?

[@AmazingCincy]

Where can I get this size tap?

[@martin2514]

Hi Gavin what lathe would you recommend for a beginner in metal working? Something small enough to do the basics yet capable to not need changing a few days later. Cheers

[@DusToDeath]

I second this. A good recommendation please.

[@almightycripple9607]

If you want a small one and dont have a lot of room look up the sherline lathe and milling machines. I wish I would've never sold mine. They'd be so handy now that I've gotten into reloading. Hell I could be buildings loading blocks and a pile of other stuff.

[@Ultimatereloader]

So many options out there! A used South Bend or Logan (USA made) would be good options. Precision Matthews has a whole lineup of lathes that are great quality that they will stand behind. For gunsmithing related tasks, I wouldn't go less than 9" swing and 24" between centers (too small to chamber rifles, but good for a lot of things). Do you have a budget in mind?

[@leejaysewell3935]

Beautiful Shop and informative videos, Thanks for the tips.

[@jdr285]

Really like your videos.The info and ideas are what are important. I had some made for my each of my 6.5CM rifles by a friend on a lathe. They work great. But what works just as well for me is doing it mathematically using the technique presented by KZbinr HornadyLoader (Hornady Overall Length Gauge and Bullet Comparator) At ~18:00, he goes through how to do it using a proper caliber standard off the shelf Hornady Modied Case. The one thing I do differently is use CBTO instead of COL.

[@osulxa]

Why use the reloading die to hold the casing? Why not put the casing directly into the collet?

[@Ultimatereloader]

osulxa because the case is tapered, and the collet/jaws are not!

[@joelsandoz741]

I hope theres testing with the new a-tips coming

[@ohiovikingsfan9294]

Gavin buddy made me one for my 6.5 PRC. I sized it and he tapped it but bullet won’t slide in and out easy. How do I fix it?

[@TheKajunkat]

you can also make a slit in the neck to loosen it up.

[@ohiovikingsfan9294]

TheKajunkat did didn’t work at all

[@308bar]

If you have a collet bullet puller, seat the bullet in the case, pull it, do not remove the bullet, then run the case up and down a few more times and it should loosen up the case mouth for it to just slide pass. I've done this a few times and it works.

[@20020x]

I would have slipped the die in from the back of the collet so it grabbed on the threads, may have been more concentric.

[@alanmaughan7968]

Just hold the case in the appropriate sized collet, it will tighten up on the web and you wont crush anything. A little chamfer on the hole before or after tapping makes the world a nicer place.

[@gregtruchot8826]

Awesome toys Gavin! Thanks for the videos!

[@DustinNulf]

Step #1: break out your $15,000 lathe that everyone has in their basement LOL

[@Mr.J345]

I’ve come to the conclusion I need a lathe lol

[@jamescannon4917]

How do you expand the neck to 2000th over to except the bullet loosely.

[@robertboyd3863]

I simply reamed it out with a drill bit

[@jaredbudzinski8434]

I’ve tried doing this before by just chucking up the case and it never worked out because it would always ever so slightly triangulate the case such that it would stick in my chamber. I don’t have collates to use for the lathe. You think it’s ok to throw the die in a three jaw chuck?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Jared- I say go for it, just be very sparing on jaw pressure! You don't need much for this kind of drilling and tapping.

[@TJVarmint]

Raise your hand if your OAL gauge has Stoney Point labeling (purchased by Hornady).

[@HITTING-STEEL-CA]

I tried to make one with a drill it didn’t come out right. It seems like my modified case has a little play in the Chamber. Seems like I should send you one of my fired cases and maybe you can make me one??? Gavin for president!!!!!

[@Ultimatereloader]

Hahaa! You can actually send them to Hornady, I don't think they charge very much!

[@tires2burn]

When I saw $200,000 worth of machinery I figured this video was beyond anything I could make.

[@bigtzone4331]

I have a Christensen MPR, 300 PRC.. Gavin, I'd love one threaded for my MPR :)

[@robertboyd3863]

Wow , don't be discouraged if you don't have a lathe, 5 minutes or so with a drill press and hand tap, can do the same thing,

[@jassonco]

Damn, didn't think to use my die, to hold the case, when I made my modified cases?!

[@85ZERO17]

DUDE WHATS UP WITH THE HORIZ MILLS?

[@ceebee40]

I didn't catch what size you drill to for a 5 1/16 x 36 tap. Does anyone know?

[@ZerwasMOD]

Its an M size drill bit, that is in inch 0.295 or 7.49mm.

[@lylemcfadyen284]

Did you do anything to the neck, or just fired it and left it alone?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Usually just firing is perfect for slip fit, and that's what I did this time!

[@robertboyd3863]

@@Ultimatereloader Simply size it down , than ream out with a drill bit

[@redrock425]

Interesting stuff. If I had the skills and equipment I'd be doing this, as I don't I bought one. Not as satisfying of course, if I had my time again I'd love to train as a gunsmith.

[@jamesprime2063]

how did you create that bullet slip? thanks

[@Ultimatereloader]

A once-fired case will typically let the bullet slip with a bit of friction...

[@robertboyd3863]

I first sized it down, then reamed it out with a drill bit, works fine

[@leefeatherston7014]

thanks gaivn just work with what you got

[@Potatogambit]

Drill press or even a hand drill work fine too made a bunch of these rather than buying them from Hornady. Why they chose such a odd ball thread size is beyond me though.

[@robertboyd3863]

I had no problem getting the tap on Ebay, and simply used a drill press and hand tap

[@Mcgoo1515]

I like the video, it's interesting to see how it's done. The camera angles threw me for a loop though. If you're going to show a small piece, zoom in. And the overhead lathe shot looking back towards the operator made me feel upside down. Bring it back a little bit so it looks a bit more normal.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Thanks for the feedback. Funny- the AccurateShooter.com folks loved the camera angles. :) :)

[@nightninja400]

Now do .416 barrett

[@dylanward2291]

Need a mag base for that oil can

[@dg1234ify]

I use a drill press

[@thelongshotproject7375]

You could just use a properly sized collet for the case. If so, you don't have to do all that monkeying with the die.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Actually- no. The body of the case is tapered. Why wouldn't you use a sizing die? It's the perfect work holding tool for this job.

[@thelongshotproject7375]

gavintoobe actually yes. What kind of response is that? So what if the case is tapered. Try it before knocking it

[@Ultimatereloader]

If you're holding a tapered part, you need something tapered to hold it if you want it to run true. Make sense?

[@thelongshotproject7375]

gavintoobe try it. It will have way less wobble than that setup you had

[@repairfreak]

I would be interested in knowing just how much taper that 300 PRC case has from Case Head to the depth of the chuck jaws on you lathe? Would it really wobble? Obviously however some shell cases have much more of a taper than others, but what kind of a difference would this make from case head rim to the grip depth of a 3 jaw chuck?

[@johnbalogna803]

Informative video however I can't justify 600+ dollars for a mini lathe. Guess I just use a drill press and work slowly.

[@robertboyd3863]

I made mine with a drill press and hand tap, no big deal , also punch out the primer and then you already have the pilot hole,

[@davecollins6113]

Can't think of any good reason a person couldn't use the die with a vise to hold it, and a hand drill and tap set, no big need for a lathe or a drill press. Could even take something like a Lee or Hornady qwik change adaptor and file a couple of flats on it, to hold the die in a vise, use your press to get the case out, or a small rod to knock it out of the die.

[@scotthankins1391]

Modified case is $7.99 online, VS $2000 + for a metal lathe ???

[@zapf6987]

If you're shooting a wildcat, you gotta make your own modified case

[@robertboyd3863]

@@zapf6987 Drill press and hand tap works just as good, and is quicker

[@davidhalopoff544]

Good video- kudos for doing it but you are not helping the majority of reloaders who can not buy a lathe or have a place to put it. You even admitted it is not that critical to being exactly perpendicular. Zillions of holes have been tapped in much more difficult metals without a lathe. A basic benchtop drill press works excellent for this using a caliber specific loading block or any other improvised jig to hold the case upside down verticle.

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

Umm I need one just like that! Please make more! I have cash ! LOL

[@brandonsjsj]

The people crying about not having the money to afford this tooling are ridiculous. You can have a nice lathe and end mill setup used for around 6k. If your a working person that’s easy to save up. I bet 90% of the people crying about this don’t even know how to run a end mill or lathe

[@Ultimatereloader]

I bought my first lathe (South Bend 10A) for about $1000. Sold it for more than that. You could do this job on a Harbor Freight lathe. Ride what you got!

[@brandonsjsj]

gavintoobe dang straight, there’s deals everywhere and I hate that people are slamming you in the comment for using your tooling. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 love what your working on right now.

[@redleg1013]

You can really tell Gavin is an engineer vs a machinist. So, you didn't say in the video, is the case sized or not? If sized is it to SAAMI minimum or just bumped back .002? For the uninitiated, best practice would be to use a case as you would use it for handloading (full length, shoulder bump, etc) yes, it is only a couple of thou difference, but if we're going for maximim precision and repeatability, well, the devil is in the details.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Haha- yes, Engineer through and through. The point of using a case that's previously fired is that you get perfect slight-slip-fit between the bullet and case neck. In the end, this is more of a relative measurement rather than anything absolute. Every permutation and technique related to bullet seating calculation has its pros/cons! :)

[@robertboyd3863]

@@Ultimatereloader I assume you also work for the govt .

[@patrickc1508]

“Why you need a metal lathe” 😂. Without having it for a business, it’s like trying to justify owning a Ferrari. Lol. Just stick with “because I can, and because I want to” There’s hundreds of reasons why I WANT one, but none justify the cost, especially once you include tooling. It just seems like you’re just playing at that point. You can do the same thing with a drill press that has a vise on it. No different than removing a stuck case. Drill it and tap it. It’s not rocket surgery 😂. Just try to keep it straight. If you get it crooked just try again. It’s only going to cost you a once fired case. I get that you used a lathe. It’s the best tool for the job, you have one, and it’s fun playing with your new toys. 😉. I would use the lathe too if I were in your shoes.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Ummmmm- no. Can you do this on a drill press? Yes. Will it be concentric like if you did it on a lathe? No.

[@robertboyd3863]

@@Ultimatereloader Nonsense , the ones made in a press work fine

[@bman8030]

jhtubevids yea but where's your thumbs up?

[@ApertureDG]

Yeah. Sure.... Why spend 15 bucks on hornady modified case? Don't be silly! Buy a 1500 buck lathe plus tools and make your own modified case! PROFIT! It's like reloading... You know...

[@clinte9897]

Buying $20k worth of machinists tools to save $9 on amazon? I think I’ll do the math later 🤔

[@charlesrhea6810]

Thanks Gavin-one is not likely to use this only once! The benefit of being able to drill and tap fire formed cases on all my rifles would more than pay for the cost of the tools!

[@almightycripple9607]

You'll get better results with a once fired case and any machine shop will most likely do it for a couple bucks or free even when they aren't busy or have an apprentice not busy. I dropped about 5 different rounds and the gauge off at a smaller machine shop and said just do them when you have time and call me. It wasn't 30 min later the lady at the front desk called and said they were done. Went and picked them up and the owner and machinist came out and asked what these were for. They thought it was cool and didn't even charge me

[@MarkBrown5150]

But, you must ask yourself "Which is more fun?"

[@Ultimatereloader]

Wow Clint- did you miss all of the other projects I'm doing with my equipment like building rifles?

[@Ultimatereloader]

Good deal!

[@308bar]

As much as I appreciate the video but most people can't afford lathe or the room. Out of touch, for the budget competitor. Why not do a video for the average guy without a lathe and use hand tools and show how they could bore and tap it straight without a lathe?

[@Ultimatereloader]

To do this job properly, a lathe is used. If you don't have a lathe, send them to Hornady.

[@robertboyd3863]

@@Ultimatereloader Oh bs. can do it fine with a press and hand tap

[@Sagaris380]

I am very surprised he uses that Hornady gauge. That thing is not very accurate. you are better off seating a bullet in a fired case and pushing it until you can close the bolt. That Hornady thing is a POS, IMO.

[@jhtubevids]

1st comment

[@archangel20031]

I hate guys like this, with their lathes and then a second lathe in the background and all!!!! OK, in reality, right now I'm greener than the HULK!

[@franciscoortiz9730]

Why do you push the bullet in so far?