Making Records with Eric Valentine - Comparative Listening

[@charkara1]

YES! Eric's back

[@antoniorobbins6768]

Honestly - the most important vlog ever for audio engineers!

[@ThePointshuttle]

By the way... My wife is 85% deaf and I find this video very inspirational to myself and a way to connect with my wife.

[@bbensoy]

Another comment: I would and probably most of us would love to see you mixing a track. I enjoy as you open the mixes and talk about the process. Also I guess from companies like puremix and mwtm it takes more time to make an on the go mixing video. However If you have time and can manage, I would very much like to watch you taking and acting intuitively and artisticly. It would be so much fun

[@jonoville]

Really enjoyed this Eric, remember hooking up a 192, a rme, an iz radar, a lynx aroura and a Motu 828 - sent me and my assistant out to play bass and drums, came back. Nobody could hit the blind test but everyone could pick out their bias when they knew. The main memory I have from the day probably 8 years later is how bad my drumming was.

[@kellypeterson2625]

Just rewatched. So good Miss your videos. I learn so many things

[@CDRtube]

The McGurk effect has happened to me! I learned to speak a second language (French) when I moved to Montreal. I was good at understanding conversations in my second language when in quiet situations, but I had a really rough time when in loud environments. If I was speaking English (my first language), I had no issues. I went for a hearing test which revealed no problems. As I was describing my issue to the hearing technician, they noted that my hearing problems were in noisy environments ... alas I could not read lips in french! Thanks for these videos, they are fantastic! You live just down the road in Vermont now! :)

[@dirkbrouns5293]

I love your energy explaining the listening tests, especially the clock story. For years I felt stupid if I could not hear these differences in preamps. At some point I recorded some dirt guitars through my BAE preamp and TG2 preamp and tested together with my buddy who has super ears - we both could not confidently pick out which was which. And this was at the time when everybody at Gearslutz was drooling about the TG2 (which I still have and love on dirt guitars). Now, it's often the other way around: we test various things and then I let the talent or clients give their opinion on the "massive differences" after which I often say "sorry I don't hear much difference at all". It is so easy to fool yourself. When people get too crazy about differences I often play a little game where I give them two soundclips and then asked which one they prefer after which I explain it was two times the exact same sound. I do it in a relaxed and friendly way after which we often chat a bit on how important it is to really listen and trust your intuition at first listen: either it felt good or not; or better or worse, we pick the better version and move on. Really cool channel you have here Eric, I'm really enjoying it and learning a lot.

[@DavidDiMuzio]

I think this is my favorite KZbin channel. Thank you, thank you, thank you 💜🤘💜🤘💜

[@jokkearnt]

19:50 and 20:50 , just putting these as a reference for showing everyone I know. Great video!

[@dolovfm]

I put off watching this for a while - why did i do that ? Listening is the most underestimated sense in the modern world - people living in accord with nature taught me this years ago. I am still learning and always humbled - many thanks.

[@monkeyxx]

So refreshing to hear a decorated professional tell the truth about this topic. Focus on the differences that really matter.

[@hipnoise_studio]

Interestingly enough, as a record/mix engineer, I lost count of how many times I tricked biased listeners out of a wrong choice during sessions just using that same knowledge to give their eyes what their brains wanted to choose, if you know what I mean ;). Great video by the way, welcome back!

[@randszzob8590]

Aah yes, like the producer panel! "I'll patch that in for you to this control here...and now you can adjust it to your liking." Client adjusts control, [nothing changes], client is happy!

[@burgerguitars]

I spent all last night and this morning reading gearslutz reviews on mic/studio cables and was about to waste a bunch of money on high end cables that people swear sound more clear/bright/smooth/tight/wide/spacious/whatever. I was listening to this entire episode hoping you would address that issue and you did at the end. Thank you so much! I'm going to spend that money on a good piece of gear instead. You saved me just in time Mr. Valentine. Nice Zeppelin too by the way!

[@holdenrains]

That Fa/Ba part blew my mind, even knowing ahead of time about visual priority, the sensory modulation was knew to me. Mind blown. Thank you for these incredible videos.

[@caleykelly]

Thanks for this great video, on a very interesting and mysterious subject and, Welcome back!

[@bdunn315]

I can’t tell you how much joy I get out of your videos. One, nobody goes down a rabbit hole better than you, and two, you just crack me up. Thanks for the great information, education and good laughs.

[@cjspectrum424]

At last! My world just turned a bit brighter

[@ianpattison5133]

"I just about crashed my car and realized it's bass" Love it.

[@IFeeeeelGood]

I think that my life has been changed by this video

[@dougweier1]

Your videos are literally the best

[@Kai-ov3in]

Eric you are a wealth of knowledge I always get excited when a Making Records Notification pops up in my inbox. Thank You!

[@raumatatetuanui259]

Thank you so much Eric for sharing, stay safe with your family

[@MichaelWilson-ri9pn]

Good to see you back man. You've been missed

[@MikeLuke]

Eric, please continue making this stuff. This is so much more worthy than a lot of the other stuff out there. Very much appreciated.

[@finn6612]

Thanks Eric and welcome back! Stay save, buddy.

[@DMKahn]

MIND BLOWN! the BAH vs FAH thing

[@stevedoesnt]

You quelled about 3 anxieties about audio of mine in this video. Much needed relief. Thank you.

[@pinaxa]

Great Video! This subject is my obsession in my day to day work..

[@maxhandel573]

Finally you're back, Eric! Really interesting episode. Love how you guided us down that rabbit hole. Some major advice here, as well as the funny little anecdotes. Take care and keep up the great work! Us upcoming engineers and musicians, we're really appreciating it :)

[@jimmyw2802]

the Fa and Ba test was LITERALLY MINDBLOWING.

[@TobyEllis]

Thanks for taking the time to make this for us. I'm glad your family is well.

[@CameronEarlyMusic]

wow this was helpful, eye opener forsure.

[@lesbolen9887]

49 years ago my Dad and I started recording with a Sony cassette deck...been into performing and recording (pro) in studios for a great part of that time-gotta say, Eric that your revelations are eye (ear)-opening for sure. Especially your tips regarding brief A-B’ing and associated plugins. Thanks for the insights, love your channel.

[@kenntakac5034]

Lol, I realized the guy in the clip is opening mouth in a different way for the second time, however I´ve heard ba both times. And with the double screen I´ve also always heard ba everytime... Doesn´t surpise me, I´ve always thought there is something special/wierd about my hearing and my brain :D Anyway, I really appreciate this video, it is really the most important thing to listen correctly and do level matched, idealy blind tests with a short loop. So many people are teaching mixing and meanwhile they are not able to do an A/B test right. In my opinion a great audio engineer always cares about phase and does a proper A/B tests. You are an absolutely amazing engeneer, really a top one, Eric. By the way, there is a guy who is possibly even more crazy than you when it comes to blind tests, Andrew Zeleno, he does blind tests with everything all the time. I´ve been attending his course, he is a super great guy. Thanks again Eric for sharing so many wonderful informations, you are great!!!!

[@markmoore9455]

Thank you Professor. I love my Black Lion preamps and clone mics even more now.

[@trentcrawford6663]

This was a fantastic listen! That McGurk Effect part was mind blowing! Loved the Antelope story. Love what you do mate! Thank you! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@alexmeade6811]

This is the best audio engineering page on youtube. Many thanks to Eric.

[@RayHildreth]

While I'm stuck at home I was planning on doing a comparison of some of the analog modeled plugins I've acquired over the years with the standard plugins that come with Logic X. Hofa Blind Test will be perfect for that. I've known about the McGurk effect for years and I've played that video for many people who are always amazed. There's a reason why double-blind, placebo controlled tests are the gold standard in science and we should accept nothing less in audio.

[@matiascova]

Le us know how yo do!

[@louderthangod]

If HOFA or someone could add something to that A/B software that could show the Delta of what the difference is between two tracks that would be interesting. In the mean time, I'm sure someone must have taken the two tracks from the clocks and tried flipping the phase, did they cancel? Another interesting one would be using the EQ match on the fab filter to see how they interpret the differences since they'd have different matching EQ's on the sources if they were different (and the eq was sensitive enough to catch them).

[@mrwev]

Doing a phase flip null test with the external/internal files is a bit tricky because they are clocked differently. The two files will slowly drift in/out of sync with each other. I had the best luck by looping a bar where the 2 files would fall exactly in sync in the middle of the bar. Then you can try to get them to null. They definitely don't null all the way. There is kind of a lot left uncancelled so the files are definitely different. Yet, still, I have not seen anyone pick them out 100% of the time. I guess the differences are not things we are sensitive to.

[@undersanction]

Eric, your videos are a tremendously valuable resource and I really appreciate your honesty and transparency. Please keep posting. Thank you!

[@dorylobel]

Eric, thank you so much for this absolutely fascinating video! Not only does it shed a light on the inner workings behind your masterful productions and mixes, it also reassures us audio fanatics that we are not crazy and not alone in our obsessive tonal pursuits! I remember having a similar experience trying to a/b different external clocks and not being able to spot a tangible difference, and ended spending that same money on different converters altogether, which made a BIG difference. Blind testing is the truly only objective way to go! Another quick anecdote- famed amplifier builder Dave Friedman works strictly using blind a/b testing when designing and modifying amps. He tricked me into thinking that his new BE50 amp was my vintage Marshall, at which point I had to say- "shit, you win!" and buy his amp haha! Thanks again, stay healthy and keep these coming! Dory.

[@forrestsalamida3721]

This was a great installment. So many times I've struggled with audio comparisons (hello devil loc we meet again...) And to hear you go in depth about it, your process, etc is invaluable. Thanks Eric!

[@lockstoffband]

Hi Eric. Just to add to everyone else: this is great content, inspiring and eye-opening. Thank you very much! - Al

[@buhlir]

wow so eye opening, its like I knew this stuff but didn't really want to think it really effected us that much! haha. thank you for this!

[@galebandthesea713]

so glad you're back, thanks for the love

[@intheblink]

Yay!!! I have missed your videos so much. Hope the downtime during COVID means we’ll be getting lots more videos soon. It really is cool to hear someone so eloquent who has so much experience go through these topics.

[@benthomas8290]

Nice to see you back at it Eric and to hear you and your family are safe and well. As per usual, stunningly interesting vid so many thanks for sharing. Stay safe!!

[@hizhaus]

Thanks, Eric. Good to see ya! Looking forward to A/Bing the proper way. Be safe.

[@3theorymusic]

I always feel inspired and empowered after watching Eric's videos. So grateful for these.

[@chriswilson4745]

Fantastic stuff - part of what you're discussing is the development of a neural network in the brain. We need assistance in developing the ability to hear in the same way we need assistance in our ability to see and taste, etc. What you've highlighted (and I've never really thought about until now - which is just awesome) is the conundrum of the two realities that the brain can fool itself into hearing differences that aren't there (thanks to sight and expectation), and that if your brain isn't trained to hear a difference you can be fooled into thinking there isn't a difference, when there is! That's just awesome to think about. Fab Dupont over at puremix does some really cool "how to listen" videos where he tries to help folks learn how to hear real differences in the same way you described having someone tell you to listen for the tail of the reverb. Hell, I'm only 25 minutes into your video and was so stoked I felt the need to comment! Can't wait for the rest - gotta keep training my ears!

[@fytakytemusic]

Great video Eric! Your story about the whole "EarShutz" episode made me laugh so hard (yet somewhat ruefully)... I used to be the member of a now defunct recording website, the owner of which was a MASSIVE proponent of double-blind testing and debunking audiofool nonsense. He was no-one of note in the larger recording world (ie. no notable credits), but he once published a video showing how he could emulate the effect of an "analogue modeled" (by a major plugin company) model of a very famous and beloved piece of analogue equipment (which is basically a resonant high pass filter) by using the Cubase stock eq. His video showed how he could get he result to basically null. It ended up the subject of a thread on EarShutz, & the outcry was similarly vitriolic to what you describe, although I'm guessing your post held a little more weight for many people due to your well-established reputation. One of the objections many had was that he could only get his test to null to -30dB (just doing it by ear). I wonder if an eq matching plugin would have done the trick completely?... Do you think you might do any other demonstrations doing the eq-match thing in this respect?

[@noiseinthebasement8139]

So glad you're back, Mr. V!

[@allmetaliswelcome]

How i have missed your videos!

[@mattperreault3518]

This is awesome!! All I can think about is if we perceive sound with vision and perception then reality isn’t really a hard line but rather a unexplainable phenomenon.

[@steveg219]

I don’t know how I missed this episode originally, this is awesome, a topic I have been researching recently as well!!

[@jeffersonbritoc]

You´re such a great professional reference! Thanks for taking your time to share your knowledge with us. I've learned so many things since I discovered this channel.

[@borjamuro7745]

Thanks very much Eric! Your vids are worth a fortune. Keep rocking!

[@greenhouseaudiosystems]

I did some A/B between my Antelope Orions and a Motu 16A back around July of 2018. Even without trying to double-blind test and do all sorts of fancy switching, trying to get two interfaces working concurrently under their own clocks and have everything come up on an SSL's still WIP wiring was a big headache. But I could hear a difference! It almost made me switch back to Motu, but the Orion's 32 I/O was just too convenient. When it comes time to upgrade interfaces, the Burl Mothership seems like the way to go... Glad you're staying safe and healthy out there :)

[@voodoochili12]

Man I was really impressed with your drumming in that example! Great loose feel. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@JamieFoulds]

Yes. You nailed it here Eric. This meshes with my experience completely. Expectation bias is an incredibly powerful thing.

[@OverdriveMusic]

So far I've picked the difference every time when looping a tiny bit! Mind you, I'm wearing $7.5k HiFiMan Susvara headphones. The internal clock bass is louder / slightly muddier, the external clock is slightly quieter, less muddy, more controlled bass. The guitar strum treble is ever so slightly more present or nicer on the external clock. Not night and day difference, but certainly giving 0.79% to a clearer mix. Not worth the money. Changing power cabling makes a bigger difference, but that's just opening another can of worms. If I listen to longer sections, I can't tell the difference. The recording and the song is amazing! Love these videos! Massive Good Charlotte Young & The Hopeless fan! One of my top 5 favourite albums! Thanks Eric!

[@seanriley9045]

Nice to see you back. I use this plug in all the time. I think I do more of this than actual recording of music. lol

[@deadrituals]

Super cool video, thanks again!

[@brucekeen8925]

Thank you Mr Valentine . I was amazed at the baa/faa video. Indeed now I need to Hosa my converters and analog vs digital. However sometimes you can feel when gear sounds good immediately without having to necessarily compare it to something else. If I can’t hear it I don’t care who many reviews it’s got.

[@parachuteman4]

Faa and baa. Amazing.. the facts about wine tasting and switched labels. Your brain makes you percieve based on sight. Labels like Marshall, Gibson, Fender. Neumann, Neve etc. Blind listening is the true test. But the scientific demonstration that sight-as in ba fa-actually makes you hear the f or the b, is mind blowing. Good to see you back Eric.!

[@cornerliston]

Great topic! Love your approach to this. And good to see you back. You can buy an hifi branded interconnect cable for $25,000. Healthy? Not at all. Psychology effects most of what we think we hear (and see). Love when people use science instead of “feeling”. Funniest moments can be had with the ones that won't admit this. Also funny moments when both youtubers and commenters shout out “HUGE” difference when there's literally 1 % or less difference of what they do or test. (Yes the youtuber hear more than what reveals in the youtube compressed video but still... oh and yes I have more than proper listening tools.) Eric, can I hope for the next topic: Burning in audio equipment.

[@TLAudioMixingMastering]

Three people out there need to have their thumbs broken. This was such a good lesson. Well done, Mr. Valentine.

[@aidanknight]

I went and read the whole thread on the Antelope clock test on GS - After days and days of posting, hundreds of back and forths between guys who are debating the methodology of internal loop sync or whatever they thought was skewing the test: Eric invites a forum responder to do the test at his place. The responder "andonwego" writes a long reply that basically says "Wow, this really opened my eyes to blind listening. I only got it right 50% of the time. My ears couldn't reliably figure out which was which. There's more important stuff than clocking."... Very next reply... "andonwego, which one did you like?" 😂

[@JonMulveyGuitar]

There you are, Eric! Thanks for posting! I will never see "Fa" the same way again! Help us get through the end times:) with your wisdom wit and positivity! Thanks, Man!

[@boglot]

This is awesome. Eric’s infectious enthusiasm has got me hooked to this channel and has made me a lot more attentive with the fine details when recording my own stuff.

[@carlos_novais]

Thank you for taking the time to do all these tests, and reporting it through your videos for our enjoyment. I do appreciate and learn a lot from it. Ah, and I love Topanga!

[@adamwattsmusic]

Loved the episode and welcome back, dude! Nothing puts the amygdalae on pause like extremely nerdy audio related stuff. As a corollary to the whole eyes/ears interrelationship thing... I've noticed that I'm super-sensitive to lighting (gimme dimmed with a warm glow!) and decor (gimme that slightly gothic, semi-bohemian, earth tones vibe, with a balance of chaos and order)... I'll literally write different music and make different mix choices in a room that's visually my jam, versus visually not my jam. Making music in a space that isn't aligned with my visual tastes and I'm far less inspired... and way more likely to make music that isn't aligned with my audio tastes. This stuff is nutty... but it makes so much sense: sight and sound are so important to orienting ourselves in the world and in communication.

[@mrwev]

Grace is the same way. She has to be in a space that feels inspiring to be inspired :)

[@tedgerard333]

Hey Eric you know believe it or not I was worried about you. Glad to see you are back, and everything thing is good.

[@Jefffdale]

Great to see you back on here dude. Excellent video as always. Cheers!

[@tommckeown6970]

That was really great info. I always enjoy learning from a real world perspective. It's easy to get caught up in things that don't really matter when moving the microphone an inch will make much more difference.

[@jamesneville9933]

Thanks very much Eric! so good to hear you're on Hosa as well. I feel like I haven't wasted a load of money investing in Hosa cable now.

[@AbandonedSessions]

Hi Eric! First of all I wanted to thank you for this amazing channel that you’re doing, I’ve stumbled upon it just a couple of weeks ago and already watched almost all of your videos, so thank you for the sharing your approach and your tricks and knowledge, that is priceless. Also that was a real surprise for me because I always thought that you were kind of enclosed person. My bad. 🤦‍♂️ That video proves that we as audio engineers must always use our ears first. Let me share with you this story that I’ve experienced, I’ve tested the DAWs the same way back when AE friend of mine was persuading me to switch from Cubase to Pro Tool(that was in 2011), so I did the same thing, Just recorded one of my songs with my band twice, with same setup, only one was done in Cubase and one in Pro Tools, I did the rough mixes and we listened to them back to back... I work in Pro Tools since and even became a certified Avid Expert. I also did the same thing second time(with different song), when I was considering switching from RME Fireface 800 to Universal Audio Apollo 16, UA won that battle. So here’s my little story, thank you and bye! :)

[@manugonzalez9222]

I don’t know if being spanish affected my perception or being prepared by your comments but I hear every time “ba” and i’ve tried to hear “fa” and I failed. Very interesting. Thank you very much for your content Eric, since I discovered the power of blind testing I’ve progress a lot better in hearing things.

[@MatzeKloft]

Okay Eric, you really got into experimental psychology this time. I love it! I recommend doing at least 30 trials in a blind listening test, because of the sample variance ;)

[@magnuslervikmusic]

This was so very interesting and rewarding! And it made me buy Hofa Blindtest. Thanks so much for sharing Eric! Keep this up...your videos are really great!

[@gavmurray7398]

thank god hes back!!!!

[@sethluloff992]

Very solid information based on whats important. Experience!!! Thank you

[@gurbur711]

Thank you so much! This was awesome!

[@Dustypye]

Excellent exposition of the scientific method, interestingly the time jitter on digital clocks is super important in the RF world and translates directly into the phase noise and spectral mask performance of transmitters which is very easily viewable on a spectrum analyser so if your clock source was really really bad you would be able to hear the artefacts but a ten dollar crystal oscillator module is probably many orders of magnitude better in jitter performance than anyone could hear on a converter clocked from it. Thanks very much for this very interesting post.

[@MrJumboblimpjumbo]

Fun video! Maybe you should A/B those Hosa cables vs Wireworld! I'd love to know if there are certain applications where a fancier cable makes a difference, e.g. mic cable vs speaker cable. Glad to see you posting videos again, stay safe.

[@jjslc]

Please do an episode on Nickel Creek PLEASE!!! How you made the ending of Helena to be so clear with so much energy is mind blowing.

[@noahmirotta]

wow, Eric you are a genius! I Love everything you do and I am constantly learning from you and the amazing music you have worked on. You are a huge inspiration to me and I look forward to meeting you one day. Stay safe, Cheers, Noah

[@frieddo]

Glad to see you back Eric ! when this confinement thing happend i thought "well Grace's tour will be suspended and Eric will be back with a new video !" ahah thank you !

[@aidancunningham2052]

Also, my fav Mac shortcut is Ctrl+Shift+Eject which turns off the monitor to allow proper listening without the McGurk effect

[@hipnoise_studio]

Now THAT'S new to me! what a great shortcut to use, thanks for the tip!

[@roomofidiots]

HOLY SHIT game changer!

[@MikeLuke]

WTF?! Now THAT is huge. Two amazing things I learned on this video now. Haha. Awesome.

[@chrisbaseford]

Awesome video! Thanks Eric!! Very refreshing to hear a professional of your stature be objective and humble enough to simply admit you can't hear a difference. It constantly blows my mind when people get hung up on something that contributes 1% to the overall sound, yet can barely hear (or don't care about) the aspects that are the larger piece of the pie. Also, love the demonstration with the picture changing. Seems like I'm always having to explain myself when a proper AB test can't be performed. Most will go with an inferior method of testing and let their bias determine the outcome. All that being said... I think spending $8k on a clock would easily convince my brain to interpret a huge sonic difference, hahahahahaha!!!!

[@mrwev]

Hey Chris!!! Hope you're well!! Yeah if spent 8K on a clock I would definitely want to hear a difference :)

[@chrisbaseford]

@@mrwev Hey Eric!! Doing as well as we can right now ;) Thanks for asking. Hope the same for you and your family!! Loving the videos. Thank you!

[@oceansiderecordingstudio]

the best vids on the tube. Love your insight and approach to audio recording and mixing.

[@caleykelly]

👏👏👏👏👏 Second time taking something away!

[@surgicalaudio8829]

Really feel you on this topic ! I'm happy to hear it from someone like you , just focusing on things that matters and bring something to the sound. Not bullshit adds

[@espenandersen3138]

great to have you back Eric! And thx so much for the external sidechain trick in protools 12 - cant wait to test it out with soothe2 :)

[@LuisCerdasPrimate]

Very eye opening video. Thanks soo much! Lovr your videos!

[@gregoryfrasch]

The cable thing: I did a test with a bunch of mic cables regarding Nady 50ft vs Planet Waves 50ft, and there was a difference; similar to an RND direct box comparison vs one of those little Neutrik transformers. Of course, I can't remember if it was in the lows or highs, but it was sincerely there.

[@Pipelyd]

Great! Thanks for nerding out :)

[@m9shamalan]

once again, hats off to you sir.

[@samthesung4902]

I loved this video and the whole Making Records series, really inspiring me to get back serious about recording some stuff Thank You.