Making Red Wine From Grapes - Part 2

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In this video I am going over more important steps to making wine from grapes including Punch Down, Malolactic Fermentation, Pressing, oaking, and dealing with the gross lees. To press, I am using a weston fruit press. To improve the yield, I am adding rice hulls to the must while pressing. This adds some porosity to the pomace. The grape varietal is Cabernet Sauvignon from Chile.

[@michaelbereny6783]

Your tutorials are the best. I have learned more form watching these than any others thank you for the great films

[@helenmullarney2298]

How great to find your tutorial. I received a gift of red grapes and looked at many and yours is the best. It answered all my queries and more. Well done , really well put together. Thank you.

[@blairjolley]

Getting everything ready to start my first batch for this harvest in California. Your videos are a great help and the best I have found.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

That's awesome! Good luck with your first batch and thanks so much for the good feedback

[@kpetes00]

What buckets did you use for the first part? Is there any hole in the lid?

[@joannecarlson373]

At 3:53 you mention placing one oz/gal toasted oak in the carboy, but then at 6:50 (after 36 hours) you racked the wine off the gross lees and presumably the oak, too. I am planning on doing the same for some home grown Oregon Pinot noir, so wouldn't it be better to have the toasted oak (cubes in my case) in the second carboy while finishing the malolactic fermentation?

[@olegproscurchin8200]

What is the difference between adding metabisulfite and sorbate? Which one I should use and when? Thanks a lot 👌

[@michellesmith1208]

I have a question for you. So last year was my first time of harvesting just 50 pounds of purple skin grapes and we followed your making wine vide which helped us so much. Wine finally after a year tasted it and it was not bad but bitter tasting and high volume in alcohol. We learned watching your videos numberous times I could have done and measured and read alot better. So this year my problem is all my grapes came out green with only a few purple skin which i have never seen this before. The vines have always had purple grapes even when i didnt harvest them. So am i now making a white wine or a red wine to follow directions differently. They are very sweet tasting and are fully ripe just didnt change color only maybe 1/8 was purple skin. What should I do? thank you Michelle SMith

[@fstarockaburns425]

Dude your videos are so darn helpful- im making notes of EVEVRYTHING for next year! thanks!!

[@davidbrant9749]

any recommendations on how to find a vineyard to buy wine grapes from? finding grapes to buy in bulk is difficult in Kansas.

[@damodarkoirala6131]

For seven to eight day of first fermentation there is no need of air lock?

[@donnytorres848]

I had a question about MLF. I pressed my grapes on Thursday and racked off the gross lees on Saturday. I have not added any sulfites since the crush. When I racked on Saturday, I had to top off with a similar wine. This is when I added my vial of White Labs WLP675 Malo bacteria. It's been a couple of days and I have seen ZERO activity (no bubbles). Is this normal? Should I try a different bacteria? I've maintained 70F in the carboy. Any guidance is appreciated. Your videos are awesome!

[@Tonetrickybone]

Shouldn’t there be a bubbler or blow off tube to stop possible contamination? Do you sanitize the spoon you use to stir with and the bucket?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Not during primary fermentation. The yeast can use a little oxygen at this point and it is very common to ferment open top, with no cover. I like to cover it to keep the fruit flies out but only loosely. The grapes are not sanitized like a beer is. The high alcohol, high acid, and and SO2 will hold off any bad microbes. Later on you will want to be very judicious about preventing oxygen but not now.

[@alivendetta181]

Pleas make a video about how to pasteurize wine

[@michellesmith1208]

I wanted to ask after I have followed your part I and now part II i noticed that when we went to pour our bucket with our fermenting wine into the press the color of our wine id a pinkish color not a red. Is this mean that some thing went wrong? I know our grapes our first year for us and they were a nice concord grape some green mixed in but now our wine color is a pink color. Can you please inform me of anything i can do. We have also in the Carboy we have we did not have it filled only 3/4 and we now have it with the rubber stopper and air lock to keep on for the next 3 months per the video

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Is it a transparent pink color or is it very opaque? The more acid the wine has, the more pink colored it will be. Less acid, more purple/blue. If you had green berries mixed in, the wine was probably a little less ripe and more acidic. If you can test with a pH meter it will be helpful. I would guess you are in the low 3s. If it is a concord, you will probably want to back sweeten anyways. You will need a little more sugar to bring it into balance if it is a little more acidic. You can chill the wine later before bottling and hopefully a lot of the acid will drop out. You can also nudge the pH up with a little potassium bicarbonate. If it is a concord, you could make an apple wine and blend/sweeten to taste. I make an apple concord every once in a while and it is a huge crowd pleaser. The two compliment each other very good. If it is not in the concord family, don't do that... Lol

[@michellesmith1208]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel I just realized after watching your video tonight 10/25/21 we are at the same process in crushing that you had responded to my same question last year. The wine we are trying to bottle now was the pink color wine mention above, but was cloudy after so we have added bentonite for the first time to see if that will clear before bottling the 2020 that we have be sitting for one year. To ask you though, my wine always is 4.0 ph each year when starting the fermentation like we are doing right now for 2021 grapes. They are little better in the purple color but very light. Why is the ph so high what can I do in the first steps or add to the carboy this time to make the ph correct please?? Thank you I have been following you for three years now

[@billhay2949]

I have a fermentation question. My Cab Sauv. stopped active fermenting 4 days ago. How long can I leave it in the fermenter before pressing the grapes, stems and all. I assume there is no need for punching down as the grapes are submerged. Also my temps. are 69-70 f.

[@willgoodwin6202]

These are fantastic videos. I'm really impressed.

[@atulatulatul1]

Hi, appreciate your videos. Could you please suggest some alternative for malolactic bacteria, I couldn't get this in my region. My red wine batch is on 4th day, secondary fermentation would begin in next few days.. pls reply. Thanks again

[@Superspace8]

First of thanks for the videos! My question for you is when you say 20 pounds of pressure. How do you know when you've reached that roughly?

[@vladimirpavlov976]

Thank you for the great videos. At what temperature you keep your carboys once you move the wine to them?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Through MLF I like to keep them above about 68F. I'd let them get to about 72. Once MLF is complete, I'll shoot for cooler temps, like 60-68. I don't get to bent out of shape about temp since the basement is usually pretty ideal for wine storage but will keep an eye on it. During MLF, I open up a heating vent where I store it. Afterwards I close it. I will move the wine a well room off the back of the basement in the coldest months of the winter for a month or so to cold stabilize it.

[@vladimirpavlov976]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thank you for the quick reply. I will have to go buy malolactic bacteria and oak chips this weekend, but need to move the wine from the buckets to the carboys now. Can I add the bacteria and the chips a little later? Also I live in the Pacific Northwest and I keep temperature in my house at around 63 degrees, so I will have to keep using the seedling heat mats to bring the temp to around 70, but after that I can remove them and let it be at room temp. It sounds like that would be OK. Thanks again! Vlad

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

No probl. You can add a little later (a couple weeks) if the carboys are topped up good but you don't want to wait too long. Before and during MLF the wine has little or no sulfite which leaves it more vulnerable to spoilage and oxidation. Once MLF is going, it will continue to produce CO2 making it very anaerobic which is helpful. Once complete, you can sulfite adequately to prevent any oxidation but if you do it now, MLF will struggle to kick off.

[@vladimirpavlov976]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Excellent, thank you. I will add it this weekend, but my wine in the buckets is a about 990, so I think I need to move it to the carboys asap. Thank you so much for the advice.

[@jonathanc8513]

Is this a 3.2 or 4.75 gal press?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

4.75 gallons

[@tracyb1222]

Appreciate the video. Majority of other tutorials suggest fermenting with an airlock, but I noticed you didn't use it. I thought it would cause too much pressure in the bucket? Also, others have said that doing the punch down allows oxygen in, which is not good as I understand it. Seems like you worry about keeping the oxygen levels low once you are done with the fermentation stage. Just want to confirm which is best?

[@lairmore1]

I love your videos. My question is how you treat your oak before adding to wine at various stages, OVEN Heat, PMBS, boil, or nothing -- lots of ideas out there but respect your opinion. Thanks

[@keithayaikeda-barry7365]

Great series! Looking forward to the next stages. Can you elaborate on the rice hulls mentioned at 5:45? They are added to the press? How do they "help the yield"? Thanks!

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Thanks for the comment! I just sprinkle in a handful of rice hulls at about three times when filling the press up. I also stirred up the solids before actually pressing which seems to substantially increase the amount of free run juice. I don't think the rice hulls are a total game changer but we may have got an extra quart of wine per 100lbs of grapes and only used a couple cups of rice hulls per 100lbs. If you did some whole cluster fermentation, the few stems here and there would probably have about the same effect.

[@roberthager7140]

I didn't get the punch mind down and I think I've starved my wine from oxygen during the fermentation it has an odd odor What would you suggest I do now to get rid of the unwanted smell

[@jimdent351]

How much force would you recommend putting on the handle of a No. 35 press. I'm making my first wine from grapes, and I'll be pressing in a week or more. Thanks.

[@maurielvega2229]

How much crushed grapes to juice you put in a 5gl bucket?

[@TrailerEvansMusic]

Are you sanitizing the wine at all with sulfites after you run it through the press or when your racking? I have about 100 lbs of grapes I’m fermenting with the skins on and I have a press just like yours, I’m just wondering if I should blast my wine with sulfates after exposing it to the press. or as long as keep my press and carboys are sterile I shouldn’t have to worry about it? I was hoping you could shed some light on this.

[@kailanibpobpo3919]

Do you need to add the oak?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Yes. Generally you will add oak in one form or another starting shortly after pressing the wine. You can taste periodically and add more oak if necessary. I generally prefer oak cubes over chips or barrels for that matter. You have many toast levels to choose from and american, french, or Hungarian oak. Most wines use american medium or medium+ toast or French med or med+. Hungarian is the same species as french oak but just grown in a slightly different climate.

[@didjesbydan]

So do you keep the lid on while fermenting?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Loosely or you can throw a towel over to keep the fruit flys out. If the yeast has low nutrient requirements I am more likely to do the lid and minimize air but if is a finicky yeast I will do a towel to let it breathe. Some yeasts will drive a wine towards the reductive side (opposite of oxidized but not good).

[@didjesbydan]

The Home Winemaking Channel I see, thanks for the reply.

[@sadashivudubalabhadra4186]

Did you add water?

[@tree6039]

How much malolactic acid per bucket?

[@joeniedzwiecki1153]

Niedzwicki

[@jedidiahenjeti7699]

without adding yeast can i try?

[@imontheoutsidelookingin2257]

I pressed my grapes yesterday and I got a lot of settlement on n the bottom and quite a few seeds floating on the top today,should I rack right away

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Within a day. If you rack right away you will probably still have a lot more settle out. I would say 12-24 hours and you should be pretty good and at low risk of any issues with the sediment.

[@imontheoutsidelookingin2257]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel thank you

[@imontheoutsidelookingin2257]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel should a young wine have a low ph and taste a bit sour

[@kh-tu4jz]

Since fermentation generates some heat ... what room/air temp do you have your room at to help maintain 80-85F within the fermentation buckets?

[@brendalayne4612]

If my acid level on day 3 of primary fermentation is a .56. Should I add acid blend?

[@checkyourhopper]

What if, after 7 days, I’m still at 5% brix? Do I need to wait longer to press?

[@kh-tu4jz]

What do you sanitize the press with prior to using? StarSan is not recommended for porous wood. So am assuming KMeta/Acid sanitizer. But would adding KMeta in that form interfere with MLF?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

K meta and acid works well and really shouldn't cause any issues with MLF. Especially if you rinse off or let the press dry afterwards. At most I can't imagine you would pick up more than a couple ppm of free SO2 from the surface of the press which will won't cause MLF issues and will likely all react with oxygen during the pressing process anyways. Depending on how long I leave the grapes on the skins I will occasionally and about 10ppm of k meta before pressing. A good ninja MLB like CH16 or CH35 won't blink at those levels, assuming the acid or alcohol aren't pushing the limits for those strains.

[@jimdent351]

What oak did you use in this wine. You say that you used 1 oz. / gallon, but when I tried oaking with 3 oz. / 5 gal. once the wine turned out horrible. That's all I could taste was the smokey oak. It even turned the wine a much darker color. I had to blend it 50/50 to even make it drinkable. That was a med. French oak that I speak of BTW, and I allowed it to sit on the oak for 21 days.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I am guessing it was a medium american oak on this wine and it was chips by the looks of it. Some of the cheaper chip products really don't impart a whole lot of oak, especially when added before the finish of MLF. That was a pretty aggressive hit for that wine, which I mentioned in the video. It is nice to have some oak blenders though to help tune other wines. I would say I usually add still close to 1 oz per gallon over the span of about 12 months but usually will fine tune one oz per 6 gal at a time. If you add it all at once it will be VERY oaky for a while but six to twelve months in will be substantially less intense. If you are using a heavier toast, like Med+ or heavy, you can definitely get that smokey takeover occurring. Sometimes a medium oak can be a little smokier than expected, and leans more towards a medium plus. A really premium oak hits pretty hard also. Occasionally I will use thin cut sections of barrel head, re-toasted. You really need to use those in moderation. Same goes for those next level oak tubes. The aromas of oak are volatile, so there can be a lot of variability from one supplier to another. French oak usually bites a little harder in the area of tannin which is something to keep in mind. Did you let any of the over-oaked wine age much? I'd be curious where it was at about 12 months past the oak addition. Usually, I want a young wine to be almost a caricature of a good wine where everything is dialed up to 10 (fruit, tannin, color, acid). As time goes on, everything settles down to about a 7.5 and falls closer to the balance you would want.

[@jimdent351]

@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thanks so much for your lengthy response. There is lots of information here that I wasn't aware of. Just to answer your question, and yes I did allow it to age. It is approaching 2 years since I took it off the oak. It is very nice still if I blend it 50/50 with a bottle that hasn't been oaked. Also, I'm using in now to top off carboys once they've been racked. Thanks for all the extra info. Jim

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Oak is a tricky thing for sure. Some of them are toasted with wood fire and some with natural gas or heating oil which can make a less pleasing smoky character. Another think to watch out for is mercaptan which happens when hydrogen sulfide goes untreated or the wine is too oxygen starved during fermentation. It can come off as a burnt rubber or plastic smoke like smell and is probably the most common wine flaw next to the oxidative flaws. It can also sneak up on you in the bottle of the wine is a little over sulfited.

[@WhiteMoonLights]

do lids get air in in the begining of video

[@chrisdodig3122]

I make wine from baco noir grapes I grow in Western MA. i terminate the natural yeast and use a purchased yeast like the one you use. My primary fermentation generally goes great but my fermentation stops when I press the wine off the skins into my glass carboy. In the past I have stopped primary and pressed the skins when the SG is above 1.00, at ~ 1.03 expecting secondary fermentation to take it to a final SG below 1.00. It hasn't worked - the fermentation seems to just stop. I may be pressing too early. I may press to hard and include the pressed juice with the free juice. But maybe the main problem is just pressing into secondary BEFORE the must gets below 1.00SG. At what SG do you stop the primary and press off the skins? ANy other ideas why my fermentation just stops when I press the juice off the skins?

[@stevengolden689]

Did you ever solve this problem?

[@kh-tu4jz]

Do you have a preferred malo bacteria?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I like CH16 and CH35. They are both pretty reliable and swift. If you prefer more butter you can use something a little less alcohol and acid tolerant for a slower fermentation but it is also more risky

[@kh-tu4jz]

The Home Winemaking Channel thank you! Really appreciate the education through your videos, website, and responses.

[@kh-tu4jz]

The Home Winemaking Channel sorry ... one more related question. Ch16/35 (dry) both indicate inoculating directly; no rehydration. Do you still add nutrients or just rely on Lee’s with 1-2 weekly stirs?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I don't use nutrients for malo bacteria and just rely on whatever is left after primary fermentation. I am curious though and would like to do trial with and without nutrients.

[@kh-tu4jz]

You mentioned adding MLF bacteria 2 days prior to pressing. Is there a specific Brix floor that you look for to decide when to add?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

You have a lot of options with ML bacteria. Some people coferment during alcoholic fermentation, after pressing, or somewhere in between. The biggest risk from co-innoculation is the risk of the ML bacteria feeding on sugar instead of malic acid. This can create acetic acid which is a big problem. Realistically it should be fine as long as the fermentation is well fed and doesn't stall. The later you affiliate, the harsher of environment for the bacteria which can encourage a slower mlf. Slower usually means more diacetyl (buttery). Faster means less. If you ask five different winemakers you will get five different strategies. This year I am co-innoculating at about halfway through fermentation and encouraging a slow and steady alcoholic fermentation

[@rogfleagle]

Do I have to wait for all the sugar to turn to alcohol before I add the Malolactic bacteria ?? I heard it can turn to vinegar if there is sugar still in the must

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I would wait til it goes dry before adding the malolactic bacteria if I were you. I have added it before pressing and not had any trouble but to be safe you will be better off adding it after pressing and after racking off the gross lees. You are welcome!

[@Seththebot]

The Home Winemaking Channel hello, can you share where you purchase you malolactic bacteria and how much you add per 6 gallons?

[@juleawheeler7635]

i am a new win maker and would like to do a red grape win with a ros hip haw would i go arawnd that one ?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I have never tried a rose hip in a red wine but I would suggest making them as two separate wines then blending when they are finished. Do some trial blends in small glasses before committing to the whole batch. That way you can better dial in the right amount of rose hip, or you may find that the wines are better separate.

[@randkell1]

Great video's, I am going to be making my first batch of wine from fresh grapes this fall. Do you have any video's planned for the next steps after pressing? Any additional steps are clarifying additives needed and then do you just bulk age or bottle it?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

randkell1 Thanks! I will post a part 3 video soon but I am just waiting a bit longer to make sure malolactic fermentation is finished. Once you press it and rack off the gross lees, there is a lot more time between steps. Once I rack it off the fine lees, I will hit it with 1/4tsp of potassium metabisulfite and leave it be to bulk age in the carboy. Once everything smoothes out I may consider a little more heavy oak but that will all depend on how it tastes. If you can wait about 8 or 12 months before bottling you really should need any fining agents but you can use them if the tannins are a little harsh still.

[@matthewhendo9933]

Why do you add yeast instead of letting natural yeast do the work?

[@jillzacc5218]

Not sure what rice holes are but otherwise good video

[@pachipachi503]

Where do u buy your grapes from?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I get them from California, Chile, and Erie for the most part. In Pittsburgh, Consumer Produce will import them.

[@pachipachi503]

The Home Winemaking Channel do u have a contact information for your source of grapes?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

@@pachipachi503 Google "cfp winemakers" and that is the phone number/website. They have odd hours so check the hours. Mario and Ronnie are the main guys down there. Right now it is the off season so you won't be able to get grapes but around April things will start coming in from South Africa and Chile. I have heard good things about the frozen musts from Peter Brehm if you want to do something in the off season but they aren't cheap

[@pachipachi503]

The Home Winemaking Channel thank you so much, great channel

[@Assssssss155]

Can we Make wine from raisins?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Technically yes, but store bought raisins are not ideal if your aim is quality. Raisins are basically dried, oxidized and normally heavily sulfited seedless grapes. Wine from seedless table grapes is very watery. Amarone is made from partially dried grapes, but they are wine grapes with thick skins and big seeds which is were the majority of the flavor comes from. Some warm climate varietals will contain a few "raisins" on the cluster here and there like zinfandel but they are not completely dried out like a store bought raisin, and they are not oxidized nearly as much since they are just starting to dry out and are sealed in a thick skin. Ice wine can be made from grapes that are starting to shrivel up, but again they are still wine grape varieties and are not yet oxidized.

[@sinanejat5243]

70 ish to 89 ish? What's your mean?

[@777goodtimes777]

Rice hulls? interesting...not like uncle ben's I take it....Videos are great!

[@robertmurphey8303]

I'm getting ready to bottle my Zin wine that has been in a Carboy on oak for the last 12 months. I took a PH reading and the PH came in at 3.35. What should I do ?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

If it tastes good, leave it be. You could add a tiny bit of sugar (with potassium sorbate) to balance it out. I would probably adjust a little with a blend of potassium bicarbonate and calcium carbonate. Be careful though because you can easily over-do it! Start small and over about a month slowly adjust it until it tastes right and is in an acceptable pH range.

[@BEERNBBQBYLARRY]

I like your channel. I started wine making back in 2013 (have several wine videos on my channel now) using my home brewing knowledge as a guide and have been learning more ever since. Is it OK if I feature your channel on my channel's Featured list?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Sure, that would be great! Thank you.

[@BEERNBBQBYLARRY]

The Home Winemaking Channel Done

[@VondaInWonderland]

Uufff, it's 100° today. I'm glad that they're not quite ripe. I hope that I get 20 lbs so that I can make a gallon ♥

[@kh-tu4jz]

Purchased the same Westen Press ... seems well made 👍 Do you have a filter in the funnel during pressing? In another video you were pressing into a bucket ... are there pros/cons to pressing directly into a Carboy vs bucket?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

I usually press through a wire mesh strainer to catch any stray seeds and some of the larger particles. I don't think it makes that much of a difference though since you will be racking the wine off of the gross lees after about a day anyways though. I would probably recommend pressing directly into a carboy if you have a big enough funnel, especially if you are letting the wine go fully dry before pressing. It is just one less transfer and a little less air exposure. If you press before the wine is fully dry, a bucket is fine but a carboy will let you see when the lees settle out a little better. A little oxygen is okay when the yeast are doing their business but it gets progressively more important to protect the wine from oxygen as it ages and the co2 dissipates and tannin becomes less reactive.

[@kh-tu4jz]

The Home Winemaking Channel also noticed you have an auto-siphon on the wall in the video. Have seen both good and bad reviews of the auto ... curious what your thoughts are since you appear to prefer the standard racking cane (based on usage in your video series).

[@davidstelting3146]

So we can assume this series is continuing ?

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

+David Stelting Yes, I should have another video in about a week. It is real time so there is a lot of time between major steps after pressing and getting it off the gross lees.

[@crazyhunternick5110]

How many days after you crushed the grapes did you add mlf to the must ????

[@sadashivudubalabhadra4186]

Can you share complete procedure in text format?

[@rangshagreenlandwatchingtv1475]

I'm also making red wine white wine

[@ronfleming6701]

It's all good

[@NateHcks]

Looks like cereal on top

[@hakangultekin3079]

my wine is not tnt

[@hakangultekin3079]

my wine is not bomb

[@nicholasbell3001]

I hate that you put your mouth on the siphoning tube. 👎

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Wineries used to use people's gross feet to crush the grapes and some still do. No pathogens that can live on the human body can survive in wine, thanks to the acid, alcohol, and SO2. It is a very different animal from beer since it is not ever sterilized. The name of the game is creating an environment that is not condusive to bacteria.

[@nicholasbell3001]

The feet crushing the grapes was very different than your mouth. Grape crushers were invented back in the late 1800s. This was before pathogens were found the way we know today. But even back then, they knew it was a bad idea. I just wouldnt drink any of your brews, knowing your mouth was on the tube, or anything else in your shop.

[@nicholasbell3001]

On a side note, the practice of grape stomping was banned in the US long ago. For obvious reasons.

[@TheHomeWinemakingChannel]

Ever see the bird poop and bugs that come in on fresh grapes? Lol. It's pretty gross to think about but at a pH of sub 3.7 and appropriate sulfite levels it is a pretty good anti bacterial. There are some studies that suggest that drinking wine wipes out over 99% of tartar forming bacteria and bacteria that cause a sore throat. Just from the brief contact with your mouth. There are a few resilient bacteria like acetobacter that have evolved to live in the environment but that is not coming from our mouth. It is already there from the fruit flies in the vineyard. And a little SO2 and O2 management will keep it dormant.

[@nicholasbell3001]

What your saying doesn't advocate your premise. So if you want to make someone sick or make very expensive vinegar, continue to put your saliva in it. The idea is: Why take the chance. Buy the $3 auto siphon and be done with it.